Saturday, 13.03.2010.
10:35
Hungarian President Laszlo Solyom said that Serbia’s treatment of minorities is “exemplary.”
Izvor: Tanjug
pre 14 godina
I also can say, you try very hard to create a "hated" "Russian Jew" in the hope, that creature will make some effect on Serbs and Russians here and make a "breach" in enemy lines. Nice try which won't fly.
(libertarian librarian tarjan, 15 March 2010 02:37)
Please help to remove that roll.
pre 14 godina
I just find it very sad that the Hungarian authorithies became so stupide as to write-off and treat tens of thousands of American-Hungarians as foreigners but giving citizenship to some people, who are against them.
(Joe, 14 March 2010 18:28)
Mr. JH
They (Hungarian authorities) are OK tough - if someone writes that "that country, which is full of idiots, I think is impossible to move forward democratic way. If Orbán will be a loser, than in four years really Jobbik will come to govern - as I predicted and I just can't wait till it will happen"
I hope, my translation was correct (Feb.27)
http://tinyurl.com/ygby5zv
So why are you that upset??? All we want here that such horrors do not happen, Vlora Citku being the president, Tatabánya being re-named to Kragujevac and the "Zero Kilometer Stone" being painted in Croatian red-white checkered motive. All we want is merely saving the country, which is as you said "full of idiots and is impossible to move forward democratic way". Besides, I am sure, neither Mr. Tadić, nor Ms. Citaku, not even Mr. Josipović would tolerate "Jobbik" for even a nanosecond. I see only benefit for Hungary. Unless you really can't wait for Jobbik.... Geeeee....
See what happens if someone's words are taken out of context, turned around and re-applied? Your own words are not just insulting for Hungary but with a little bit more demagogic efforts I could paint you as a hard-core "Jobbikos".
I also can say, you try very hard to create a "hated" "Russian Jew" in the hope, that creature will make some effect on Serbs and Russians here and make a "breach" in enemy lines. Nice try which won't fly.
pre 14 godina
I don't care if you are Jewish and Russian
(Joe, 14 March 2010 18:28)
This is an other curse? Last time I was just half-Jew. Now being full-time Jew AND full-time Russian sounds like a nasty downgrade. You know... let's settle on "Jew from Belarus and Gypsy from Romania" because there is no downgrade from that point, things can go only better, right? One day I could be even upgraded to half-French, half-American if I behave better.
For the rest of your essay: you are correct. Vlora Citaku is of Serbian ethnic background and "sahovnica" was invented just to please Serbs.
pre 14 godina
Ataman,
I don't care if you are Jewish and Russian with a Hungarian passport as long as you display some decency toward Hungary, where you live. I judge people by their deeds and expressions not by their ethnicity or race.
Don't tell me that one of your recent comments something like "I would like to see Greater Croatia or Greater Serbia start in Budapest at the 0 kilometer marker" was something not truly nasty. Knowing you by now you would probably reply that it was just a joke or "I just wanted to please my Serbian friends". Well in jokes too there is a limit, a certain decency to be observed.
I lived for years both in France and Germany. Never in my life would I have said that I would like to see the UK start in Paris or Poland in Berlin or - an other example - Syria starts in Jerusalem.
I just find it very sad that the Hungarian authorithies became so stupide as to write-off and treat tens of thousands of American-Hungarians as foreigners but giving citizenship to some people, who are against them.
pre 14 godina
1) Sólyom is not your president, Joe. You can of course criticize or praise him - but if you would not boost earlier, you do not care about EU and don't have Hungarian citizenship - than you maybe would have more credibility.
2) The incidents you describe do happen once in a while. No one denies them but the root cause is never political. It's about Saturday Disco, girls and soccer "issues", at one point misused for quasi-political message.
3) The demands Sólyom put on Serbs were simply scandalous. Still, he survived politically so far the visit - wish he would not. He is a major disgrace of the country.
As you know well: the president is largely a symbolic figure without executive power. Sólyom frequently over-steps his authority and creates political tension. His main agenda now is to survive the coming MSZP->FIDESZ "change" and this is how his visit should be judged.
He is a disgusting figure and deserves both thumbs down + middle finger up.
4) You are more than welcome to support Vojvodina and Hungary. Just
>>> #1 pay that small fee, get that little goddamn Hungarian passport
>>> #2 support Vojvodina-Hunarian economy directly going to the area.
Really, why don't you support Vojvodina and Kosovo you pretend to care that much about? Go there, have fun, give Hungarians or Albanians few Euro for the service they provide you like car-wash, restaurant, hotel and so on. One Euro to them directly is more worth than one fiery anti-Russian/anti-Serbian comment on B92. Put some deeds behind your words.
The Budapest-Subotica round-trip is less than 15 Euro and the Vienna-Pristina bus stops every day on M3 exit near Budapest - Albanian driver will give you the round-trip ticket for 100 Euro. Just in case you decide to go here and not to Caribbean. If you are lazy: support the Hungarian economy, too - come here, rent a car with automatic transmission from any new car dealership, costs only 40 Bucks/day and drive all over Vojvodina and Kosovo. Don't rent from Hertz or Budget, they charge you more and won't let you drive outside of EU.
Instead you boost not caring about EU and not having EU passport. That's funny.
BTW: I decided to settle on "half-Jew, half-Gypsy", hope it does satisfy you. If you like, I can change it to "half-Buddhist, half-Mexican". Whatever is fine if you are happy.
pre 14 godina
Negative reviews only.
Don't worry. I know that this would be wrong thing to do.
Message would be "You can live in Serbia if you are willing to be Serbs, not Hungarians".
What bothers me is - How come nobody knew that it is wrong in 1990?
When the message in Croatia was "You can live here if you are willing to be Croats, not Serbs".
Or, agian, in double standard - it is OK to do that to Serbs, not OK to do that to Hungarians?
pre 14 godina
If Serbia's treatment of minorities is exemplary I sincerely hope Hungary didn't recognise Kosovo because it would contribute to 'regional stability'.
(Sam, UK, 13 March 2010 11:07)
Sam, regional stabilty was gone after dismembering Hungary for the sins of imperial Austria (!) following WW1. I am sure Hungary would reconsider recognising Kosovo if secessionost Vojvodina was reunited with the Motherland Hungary. Think about that.
pre 14 godina
"endorsement/support of the Hungarian President regaeding minority rights in Serbia".
Michael
Hold your horses. You are to quick to generalize his praise for cultural autonomy for a general "endorsement".
I do not deny some of the cultural aspects. I would also be more than happy to admit that I was wrong for years with my assessment if the overall situation of the Hungarians in Vojvodina would be really so rosy. But what Solyom didnt want to mention (fearing an immediate expulsion) is the juridic situation. That is the painful, touchy aspect, the very weak point. When there are attacks against Hungarian youth most of the police still acts like under Milosevic. Everything get swept under the rug. But I stop here. I don't want to be censured.
pre 14 godina
Why don't we just learn from Croatia? After all everyone said that this is democracy, including Hungary.
Just like in Croatia in 1990, in Serbia we should use Serbian language and cyrillic only.
It's fresh in my memory that everyone in the West thinks that's OK.
pre 14 godina
Where is our Hungarian Joe?. Seems like his personal witch hunt against Serbia took a big hit today with the endorsement/support of the Hungarian President regarding minority rights in Serbia.
Kosovo on the other hand, dominated by albanian thugs, is the 21st century's example of how to brutalize and destroy ethnic minorities from Serb, Roma, and Croat.
pre 14 godina
Knowing Mr. Sólyom/"Kraguj" and reading the B92 article which transmits warm, cozy and fuzzy feelings I was suspicious that either Mr. Kraguj became Mr. Dove overnight or somewhat is missing.
After reading the highly respected HVG every piece of the puzzle is in-place. Unfortunately after reading HVG my good mood disappeared somehow.
What happened yesterday:
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20100312_solyom_laszlo_szerbia_magyar_iskolak
I am not a professional translator, i will try to just provide a very rough translation and some - sorry - very rough comments.
The first part is the praise of Serbian policy towards minorities (almost word-by-word what we can read on B92). That part is set in bold characters above the ad. The only difference is, he mentioned not "bad guy" countries, but "certain OTHER country".
My comment: of course it's Slovakia and here we can agree: yes, the situation of Hungarian minority in Slovakia is very difficult to say the least. Myself and a friend of mine from Belgrade did witness a scandalous scene in Slovakia - our Slovak friends need to be careful because what they do is very-very under-appreciated by Serbs if they witness it. It's not going to make the Slovak-Serbian friendship better.
The second part (under the ad) was about a monument uncovering ceremony on the main square of Horgos. The monument is of St. Stephan (first king of Hungary). L.S. is speaking about "our duty" to preserve the Hungarian nation based not on the citizenship criteria but on the cultural criteria.
My comment: word-by-word nothing wrong, but I feel somewhat is a bit fishy. It's just a bit, let's move on.
Next he spoke about the role of St. Stephan regarding the tolerance of different nations living on the territory of his kingdom
My comment: ethically nothing wrong either. Historic role of St. Stephan is a controversy: many people accuse him selling out the Hungarian interests to Germans. But here of course the message is political and so far so good.
In the last paragraph HVG reports about the schedule of visit. So far, (almost) everything is warm and fuzzy.
What happened today was much more interesting:
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20100313_solyom_laszlo_fontos_a_magyar_nyelvu_okta
No warmness and coziness - here our mini-Turul goes with DEMANDS towards Serbia, no praises.
#1: affirmative action, the number of Hungarians with diploma has to correspond to their numbers.
(My comment: this is not bad per se, we can debate it, in general "affirmative action" was a controversy in the States, OK, not bad but unsure)
#2: the ethnic Hungarian pupils in Serbia should use Hungarian books to learn, NOT Serbian books translated in Hungarian
My comments: AFAIK, Sólyom is the president of Hungary, not the minister of education of Serbia. What is the curriculum in Serbia is up to Serbian minister of education. Translated books not enough?
These people will need to find a job in Serbia. Hungary can't take the responsibility for that, what a crazy idea. Besides, there is no guarantee, Hungarian or Serbian books are better (I am thinking about math, physics and so on).
#3: the official language of every involved country (Serbian in Serbia, Romanian in Romania, Slovak in Slovakia) has to appear as a FOREIGN LANGUAGE in the curriculum of Serbian (Romanian, Slovak) schools teaching Hungarian minority.
My comment: this is totally crazy, Sólyom is smoking weed. The primary goal for Hungarians in Serbia is to get a good-paying nice job in Serbia. In order to be on team with others they need to command both languages (Serbian and Hungarian) perfectly. Plus English, German and Russian as foreign language. Otherwise no job. Serbian as second language in own country? No Serbian/Romanian/Chinese/German minority school in Hungary does it and it's correct. The Serbs, Romanians, Chinese, Germans who live in Hungary have to find the job in Hungary, not in Serbia, Romania, China, Germany. Otherwise we would just generate immigrants and brain-drain.
#4: INCREASING the influence of the church in education (that was the topic he spoke about with a local bishop)
My comment: OMG, what is if I decide to side with Buddhists? Wake up, it's 2010, not 1010. My faith in not anyone's business. Get lost, Sólyom - fly away.
#5: Representation of Hungarians in local police forces, courts needs to be increased because they are under-represented
My comment: ABSOLUTELY, 200% correct. I, too find it not good that driving across Vojvodina barely any cop does speak Hungarian - neither do the border guards. Makes even more sense because in makes cross-border cooperation much easier and the life of bad guys much more difficult.
Summary:
One good proposal to take very seriously and Sólyom is absolutely right.
One proposal is "TBD", in particular let's see the experience in USA, how that "affirmative action" did work out. I am not sure "pro" or "contra".
Three proposals which make me unsure, did László Sólyom smoke weed or it was a special pot from Amsterdam before speaking.
Score: 1.5 : 3.5
Thumbs down.
pre 14 godina
Sam UK,
The unfinished Kosovo quagmire only furthers regional instability. You can't reward one and punish the other.
pre 14 godina
Serbia has always been a diverse country with a multitude of ethnic and religious minorities. The vast majority live in peace with their Serbian neighbours. How sad then that over the years, she has been vilified by foreign propagandists as intolerant and nationalist. Can the same be said, I wonder, of the other former Yugoslav territories. How safe and secure are Serbs and other minorities in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo?
pre 14 godina
No - next FACT: Serbia is only real Balkan MULTHIETNIC STATE. Rest of states - are created on the nationalistic basis (especially separatist pseudostate in Kosovo created by albanian nationalists with western support).
pre 14 godina
If Serbia's treatment of minorities is exemplary I sincerely hope Hungary didn't recognise Kosovo because it would contribute to 'regional stability'.
pre 14 godina
No - next FACT: Serbia is only real Balkan MULTHIETNIC STATE. Rest of states - are created on the nationalistic basis (especially separatist pseudostate in Kosovo created by albanian nationalists with western support).
pre 14 godina
Serbia has always been a diverse country with a multitude of ethnic and religious minorities. The vast majority live in peace with their Serbian neighbours. How sad then that over the years, she has been vilified by foreign propagandists as intolerant and nationalist. Can the same be said, I wonder, of the other former Yugoslav territories. How safe and secure are Serbs and other minorities in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo?
pre 14 godina
If Serbia's treatment of minorities is exemplary I sincerely hope Hungary didn't recognise Kosovo because it would contribute to 'regional stability'.
pre 14 godina
Where is our Hungarian Joe?. Seems like his personal witch hunt against Serbia took a big hit today with the endorsement/support of the Hungarian President regarding minority rights in Serbia.
Kosovo on the other hand, dominated by albanian thugs, is the 21st century's example of how to brutalize and destroy ethnic minorities from Serb, Roma, and Croat.
pre 14 godina
Knowing Mr. Sólyom/"Kraguj" and reading the B92 article which transmits warm, cozy and fuzzy feelings I was suspicious that either Mr. Kraguj became Mr. Dove overnight or somewhat is missing.
After reading the highly respected HVG every piece of the puzzle is in-place. Unfortunately after reading HVG my good mood disappeared somehow.
What happened yesterday:
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20100312_solyom_laszlo_szerbia_magyar_iskolak
I am not a professional translator, i will try to just provide a very rough translation and some - sorry - very rough comments.
The first part is the praise of Serbian policy towards minorities (almost word-by-word what we can read on B92). That part is set in bold characters above the ad. The only difference is, he mentioned not "bad guy" countries, but "certain OTHER country".
My comment: of course it's Slovakia and here we can agree: yes, the situation of Hungarian minority in Slovakia is very difficult to say the least. Myself and a friend of mine from Belgrade did witness a scandalous scene in Slovakia - our Slovak friends need to be careful because what they do is very-very under-appreciated by Serbs if they witness it. It's not going to make the Slovak-Serbian friendship better.
The second part (under the ad) was about a monument uncovering ceremony on the main square of Horgos. The monument is of St. Stephan (first king of Hungary). L.S. is speaking about "our duty" to preserve the Hungarian nation based not on the citizenship criteria but on the cultural criteria.
My comment: word-by-word nothing wrong, but I feel somewhat is a bit fishy. It's just a bit, let's move on.
Next he spoke about the role of St. Stephan regarding the tolerance of different nations living on the territory of his kingdom
My comment: ethically nothing wrong either. Historic role of St. Stephan is a controversy: many people accuse him selling out the Hungarian interests to Germans. But here of course the message is political and so far so good.
In the last paragraph HVG reports about the schedule of visit. So far, (almost) everything is warm and fuzzy.
What happened today was much more interesting:
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20100313_solyom_laszlo_fontos_a_magyar_nyelvu_okta
No warmness and coziness - here our mini-Turul goes with DEMANDS towards Serbia, no praises.
#1: affirmative action, the number of Hungarians with diploma has to correspond to their numbers.
(My comment: this is not bad per se, we can debate it, in general "affirmative action" was a controversy in the States, OK, not bad but unsure)
#2: the ethnic Hungarian pupils in Serbia should use Hungarian books to learn, NOT Serbian books translated in Hungarian
My comments: AFAIK, Sólyom is the president of Hungary, not the minister of education of Serbia. What is the curriculum in Serbia is up to Serbian minister of education. Translated books not enough?
These people will need to find a job in Serbia. Hungary can't take the responsibility for that, what a crazy idea. Besides, there is no guarantee, Hungarian or Serbian books are better (I am thinking about math, physics and so on).
#3: the official language of every involved country (Serbian in Serbia, Romanian in Romania, Slovak in Slovakia) has to appear as a FOREIGN LANGUAGE in the curriculum of Serbian (Romanian, Slovak) schools teaching Hungarian minority.
My comment: this is totally crazy, Sólyom is smoking weed. The primary goal for Hungarians in Serbia is to get a good-paying nice job in Serbia. In order to be on team with others they need to command both languages (Serbian and Hungarian) perfectly. Plus English, German and Russian as foreign language. Otherwise no job. Serbian as second language in own country? No Serbian/Romanian/Chinese/German minority school in Hungary does it and it's correct. The Serbs, Romanians, Chinese, Germans who live in Hungary have to find the job in Hungary, not in Serbia, Romania, China, Germany. Otherwise we would just generate immigrants and brain-drain.
#4: INCREASING the influence of the church in education (that was the topic he spoke about with a local bishop)
My comment: OMG, what is if I decide to side with Buddhists? Wake up, it's 2010, not 1010. My faith in not anyone's business. Get lost, Sólyom - fly away.
#5: Representation of Hungarians in local police forces, courts needs to be increased because they are under-represented
My comment: ABSOLUTELY, 200% correct. I, too find it not good that driving across Vojvodina barely any cop does speak Hungarian - neither do the border guards. Makes even more sense because in makes cross-border cooperation much easier and the life of bad guys much more difficult.
Summary:
One good proposal to take very seriously and Sólyom is absolutely right.
One proposal is "TBD", in particular let's see the experience in USA, how that "affirmative action" did work out. I am not sure "pro" or "contra".
Three proposals which make me unsure, did László Sólyom smoke weed or it was a special pot from Amsterdam before speaking.
Score: 1.5 : 3.5
Thumbs down.
pre 14 godina
Sam UK,
The unfinished Kosovo quagmire only furthers regional instability. You can't reward one and punish the other.
pre 14 godina
I don't care if you are Jewish and Russian
(Joe, 14 March 2010 18:28)
This is an other curse? Last time I was just half-Jew. Now being full-time Jew AND full-time Russian sounds like a nasty downgrade. You know... let's settle on "Jew from Belarus and Gypsy from Romania" because there is no downgrade from that point, things can go only better, right? One day I could be even upgraded to half-French, half-American if I behave better.
For the rest of your essay: you are correct. Vlora Citaku is of Serbian ethnic background and "sahovnica" was invented just to please Serbs.
pre 14 godina
1) Sólyom is not your president, Joe. You can of course criticize or praise him - but if you would not boost earlier, you do not care about EU and don't have Hungarian citizenship - than you maybe would have more credibility.
2) The incidents you describe do happen once in a while. No one denies them but the root cause is never political. It's about Saturday Disco, girls and soccer "issues", at one point misused for quasi-political message.
3) The demands Sólyom put on Serbs were simply scandalous. Still, he survived politically so far the visit - wish he would not. He is a major disgrace of the country.
As you know well: the president is largely a symbolic figure without executive power. Sólyom frequently over-steps his authority and creates political tension. His main agenda now is to survive the coming MSZP->FIDESZ "change" and this is how his visit should be judged.
He is a disgusting figure and deserves both thumbs down + middle finger up.
4) You are more than welcome to support Vojvodina and Hungary. Just
>>> #1 pay that small fee, get that little goddamn Hungarian passport
>>> #2 support Vojvodina-Hunarian economy directly going to the area.
Really, why don't you support Vojvodina and Kosovo you pretend to care that much about? Go there, have fun, give Hungarians or Albanians few Euro for the service they provide you like car-wash, restaurant, hotel and so on. One Euro to them directly is more worth than one fiery anti-Russian/anti-Serbian comment on B92. Put some deeds behind your words.
The Budapest-Subotica round-trip is less than 15 Euro and the Vienna-Pristina bus stops every day on M3 exit near Budapest - Albanian driver will give you the round-trip ticket for 100 Euro. Just in case you decide to go here and not to Caribbean. If you are lazy: support the Hungarian economy, too - come here, rent a car with automatic transmission from any new car dealership, costs only 40 Bucks/day and drive all over Vojvodina and Kosovo. Don't rent from Hertz or Budget, they charge you more and won't let you drive outside of EU.
Instead you boost not caring about EU and not having EU passport. That's funny.
BTW: I decided to settle on "half-Jew, half-Gypsy", hope it does satisfy you. If you like, I can change it to "half-Buddhist, half-Mexican". Whatever is fine if you are happy.
pre 14 godina
I just find it very sad that the Hungarian authorithies became so stupide as to write-off and treat tens of thousands of American-Hungarians as foreigners but giving citizenship to some people, who are against them.
(Joe, 14 March 2010 18:28)
Mr. JH
They (Hungarian authorities) are OK tough - if someone writes that "that country, which is full of idiots, I think is impossible to move forward democratic way. If Orbán will be a loser, than in four years really Jobbik will come to govern - as I predicted and I just can't wait till it will happen"
I hope, my translation was correct (Feb.27)
http://tinyurl.com/ygby5zv
So why are you that upset??? All we want here that such horrors do not happen, Vlora Citku being the president, Tatabánya being re-named to Kragujevac and the "Zero Kilometer Stone" being painted in Croatian red-white checkered motive. All we want is merely saving the country, which is as you said "full of idiots and is impossible to move forward democratic way". Besides, I am sure, neither Mr. Tadić, nor Ms. Citaku, not even Mr. Josipović would tolerate "Jobbik" for even a nanosecond. I see only benefit for Hungary. Unless you really can't wait for Jobbik.... Geeeee....
See what happens if someone's words are taken out of context, turned around and re-applied? Your own words are not just insulting for Hungary but with a little bit more demagogic efforts I could paint you as a hard-core "Jobbikos".
I also can say, you try very hard to create a "hated" "Russian Jew" in the hope, that creature will make some effect on Serbs and Russians here and make a "breach" in enemy lines. Nice try which won't fly.
pre 14 godina
Why don't we just learn from Croatia? After all everyone said that this is democracy, including Hungary.
Just like in Croatia in 1990, in Serbia we should use Serbian language and cyrillic only.
It's fresh in my memory that everyone in the West thinks that's OK.
pre 14 godina
I also can say, you try very hard to create a "hated" "Russian Jew" in the hope, that creature will make some effect on Serbs and Russians here and make a "breach" in enemy lines. Nice try which won't fly.
(libertarian librarian tarjan, 15 March 2010 02:37)
Please help to remove that roll.
pre 14 godina
"endorsement/support of the Hungarian President regaeding minority rights in Serbia".
Michael
Hold your horses. You are to quick to generalize his praise for cultural autonomy for a general "endorsement".
I do not deny some of the cultural aspects. I would also be more than happy to admit that I was wrong for years with my assessment if the overall situation of the Hungarians in Vojvodina would be really so rosy. But what Solyom didnt want to mention (fearing an immediate expulsion) is the juridic situation. That is the painful, touchy aspect, the very weak point. When there are attacks against Hungarian youth most of the police still acts like under Milosevic. Everything get swept under the rug. But I stop here. I don't want to be censured.
pre 14 godina
Negative reviews only.
Don't worry. I know that this would be wrong thing to do.
Message would be "You can live in Serbia if you are willing to be Serbs, not Hungarians".
What bothers me is - How come nobody knew that it is wrong in 1990?
When the message in Croatia was "You can live here if you are willing to be Croats, not Serbs".
Or, agian, in double standard - it is OK to do that to Serbs, not OK to do that to Hungarians?
pre 14 godina
Ataman,
I don't care if you are Jewish and Russian with a Hungarian passport as long as you display some decency toward Hungary, where you live. I judge people by their deeds and expressions not by their ethnicity or race.
Don't tell me that one of your recent comments something like "I would like to see Greater Croatia or Greater Serbia start in Budapest at the 0 kilometer marker" was something not truly nasty. Knowing you by now you would probably reply that it was just a joke or "I just wanted to please my Serbian friends". Well in jokes too there is a limit, a certain decency to be observed.
I lived for years both in France and Germany. Never in my life would I have said that I would like to see the UK start in Paris or Poland in Berlin or - an other example - Syria starts in Jerusalem.
I just find it very sad that the Hungarian authorithies became so stupide as to write-off and treat tens of thousands of American-Hungarians as foreigners but giving citizenship to some people, who are against them.
pre 14 godina
If Serbia's treatment of minorities is exemplary I sincerely hope Hungary didn't recognise Kosovo because it would contribute to 'regional stability'.
(Sam, UK, 13 March 2010 11:07)
Sam, regional stabilty was gone after dismembering Hungary for the sins of imperial Austria (!) following WW1. I am sure Hungary would reconsider recognising Kosovo if secessionost Vojvodina was reunited with the Motherland Hungary. Think about that.
pre 14 godina
"endorsement/support of the Hungarian President regaeding minority rights in Serbia".
Michael
Hold your horses. You are to quick to generalize his praise for cultural autonomy for a general "endorsement".
I do not deny some of the cultural aspects. I would also be more than happy to admit that I was wrong for years with my assessment if the overall situation of the Hungarians in Vojvodina would be really so rosy. But what Solyom didnt want to mention (fearing an immediate expulsion) is the juridic situation. That is the painful, touchy aspect, the very weak point. When there are attacks against Hungarian youth most of the police still acts like under Milosevic. Everything get swept under the rug. But I stop here. I don't want to be censured.
pre 14 godina
If Serbia's treatment of minorities is exemplary I sincerely hope Hungary didn't recognise Kosovo because it would contribute to 'regional stability'.
pre 14 godina
Why don't we just learn from Croatia? After all everyone said that this is democracy, including Hungary.
Just like in Croatia in 1990, in Serbia we should use Serbian language and cyrillic only.
It's fresh in my memory that everyone in the West thinks that's OK.
pre 14 godina
Ataman,
I don't care if you are Jewish and Russian with a Hungarian passport as long as you display some decency toward Hungary, where you live. I judge people by their deeds and expressions not by their ethnicity or race.
Don't tell me that one of your recent comments something like "I would like to see Greater Croatia or Greater Serbia start in Budapest at the 0 kilometer marker" was something not truly nasty. Knowing you by now you would probably reply that it was just a joke or "I just wanted to please my Serbian friends". Well in jokes too there is a limit, a certain decency to be observed.
I lived for years both in France and Germany. Never in my life would I have said that I would like to see the UK start in Paris or Poland in Berlin or - an other example - Syria starts in Jerusalem.
I just find it very sad that the Hungarian authorithies became so stupide as to write-off and treat tens of thousands of American-Hungarians as foreigners but giving citizenship to some people, who are against them.
pre 14 godina
Serbia has always been a diverse country with a multitude of ethnic and religious minorities. The vast majority live in peace with their Serbian neighbours. How sad then that over the years, she has been vilified by foreign propagandists as intolerant and nationalist. Can the same be said, I wonder, of the other former Yugoslav territories. How safe and secure are Serbs and other minorities in Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo?
pre 14 godina
No - next FACT: Serbia is only real Balkan MULTHIETNIC STATE. Rest of states - are created on the nationalistic basis (especially separatist pseudostate in Kosovo created by albanian nationalists with western support).
pre 14 godina
Sam UK,
The unfinished Kosovo quagmire only furthers regional instability. You can't reward one and punish the other.
pre 14 godina
Where is our Hungarian Joe?. Seems like his personal witch hunt against Serbia took a big hit today with the endorsement/support of the Hungarian President regarding minority rights in Serbia.
Kosovo on the other hand, dominated by albanian thugs, is the 21st century's example of how to brutalize and destroy ethnic minorities from Serb, Roma, and Croat.
pre 14 godina
Knowing Mr. Sólyom/"Kraguj" and reading the B92 article which transmits warm, cozy and fuzzy feelings I was suspicious that either Mr. Kraguj became Mr. Dove overnight or somewhat is missing.
After reading the highly respected HVG every piece of the puzzle is in-place. Unfortunately after reading HVG my good mood disappeared somehow.
What happened yesterday:
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20100312_solyom_laszlo_szerbia_magyar_iskolak
I am not a professional translator, i will try to just provide a very rough translation and some - sorry - very rough comments.
The first part is the praise of Serbian policy towards minorities (almost word-by-word what we can read on B92). That part is set in bold characters above the ad. The only difference is, he mentioned not "bad guy" countries, but "certain OTHER country".
My comment: of course it's Slovakia and here we can agree: yes, the situation of Hungarian minority in Slovakia is very difficult to say the least. Myself and a friend of mine from Belgrade did witness a scandalous scene in Slovakia - our Slovak friends need to be careful because what they do is very-very under-appreciated by Serbs if they witness it. It's not going to make the Slovak-Serbian friendship better.
The second part (under the ad) was about a monument uncovering ceremony on the main square of Horgos. The monument is of St. Stephan (first king of Hungary). L.S. is speaking about "our duty" to preserve the Hungarian nation based not on the citizenship criteria but on the cultural criteria.
My comment: word-by-word nothing wrong, but I feel somewhat is a bit fishy. It's just a bit, let's move on.
Next he spoke about the role of St. Stephan regarding the tolerance of different nations living on the territory of his kingdom
My comment: ethically nothing wrong either. Historic role of St. Stephan is a controversy: many people accuse him selling out the Hungarian interests to Germans. But here of course the message is political and so far so good.
In the last paragraph HVG reports about the schedule of visit. So far, (almost) everything is warm and fuzzy.
What happened today was much more interesting:
http://hvg.hu/vilag/20100313_solyom_laszlo_fontos_a_magyar_nyelvu_okta
No warmness and coziness - here our mini-Turul goes with DEMANDS towards Serbia, no praises.
#1: affirmative action, the number of Hungarians with diploma has to correspond to their numbers.
(My comment: this is not bad per se, we can debate it, in general "affirmative action" was a controversy in the States, OK, not bad but unsure)
#2: the ethnic Hungarian pupils in Serbia should use Hungarian books to learn, NOT Serbian books translated in Hungarian
My comments: AFAIK, Sólyom is the president of Hungary, not the minister of education of Serbia. What is the curriculum in Serbia is up to Serbian minister of education. Translated books not enough?
These people will need to find a job in Serbia. Hungary can't take the responsibility for that, what a crazy idea. Besides, there is no guarantee, Hungarian or Serbian books are better (I am thinking about math, physics and so on).
#3: the official language of every involved country (Serbian in Serbia, Romanian in Romania, Slovak in Slovakia) has to appear as a FOREIGN LANGUAGE in the curriculum of Serbian (Romanian, Slovak) schools teaching Hungarian minority.
My comment: this is totally crazy, Sólyom is smoking weed. The primary goal for Hungarians in Serbia is to get a good-paying nice job in Serbia. In order to be on team with others they need to command both languages (Serbian and Hungarian) perfectly. Plus English, German and Russian as foreign language. Otherwise no job. Serbian as second language in own country? No Serbian/Romanian/Chinese/German minority school in Hungary does it and it's correct. The Serbs, Romanians, Chinese, Germans who live in Hungary have to find the job in Hungary, not in Serbia, Romania, China, Germany. Otherwise we would just generate immigrants and brain-drain.
#4: INCREASING the influence of the church in education (that was the topic he spoke about with a local bishop)
My comment: OMG, what is if I decide to side with Buddhists? Wake up, it's 2010, not 1010. My faith in not anyone's business. Get lost, Sólyom - fly away.
#5: Representation of Hungarians in local police forces, courts needs to be increased because they are under-represented
My comment: ABSOLUTELY, 200% correct. I, too find it not good that driving across Vojvodina barely any cop does speak Hungarian - neither do the border guards. Makes even more sense because in makes cross-border cooperation much easier and the life of bad guys much more difficult.
Summary:
One good proposal to take very seriously and Sólyom is absolutely right.
One proposal is "TBD", in particular let's see the experience in USA, how that "affirmative action" did work out. I am not sure "pro" or "contra".
Three proposals which make me unsure, did László Sólyom smoke weed or it was a special pot from Amsterdam before speaking.
Score: 1.5 : 3.5
Thumbs down.
pre 14 godina
If Serbia's treatment of minorities is exemplary I sincerely hope Hungary didn't recognise Kosovo because it would contribute to 'regional stability'.
(Sam, UK, 13 March 2010 11:07)
Sam, regional stabilty was gone after dismembering Hungary for the sins of imperial Austria (!) following WW1. I am sure Hungary would reconsider recognising Kosovo if secessionost Vojvodina was reunited with the Motherland Hungary. Think about that.
pre 14 godina
Negative reviews only.
Don't worry. I know that this would be wrong thing to do.
Message would be "You can live in Serbia if you are willing to be Serbs, not Hungarians".
What bothers me is - How come nobody knew that it is wrong in 1990?
When the message in Croatia was "You can live here if you are willing to be Croats, not Serbs".
Or, agian, in double standard - it is OK to do that to Serbs, not OK to do that to Hungarians?
pre 14 godina
1) Sólyom is not your president, Joe. You can of course criticize or praise him - but if you would not boost earlier, you do not care about EU and don't have Hungarian citizenship - than you maybe would have more credibility.
2) The incidents you describe do happen once in a while. No one denies them but the root cause is never political. It's about Saturday Disco, girls and soccer "issues", at one point misused for quasi-political message.
3) The demands Sólyom put on Serbs were simply scandalous. Still, he survived politically so far the visit - wish he would not. He is a major disgrace of the country.
As you know well: the president is largely a symbolic figure without executive power. Sólyom frequently over-steps his authority and creates political tension. His main agenda now is to survive the coming MSZP->FIDESZ "change" and this is how his visit should be judged.
He is a disgusting figure and deserves both thumbs down + middle finger up.
4) You are more than welcome to support Vojvodina and Hungary. Just
>>> #1 pay that small fee, get that little goddamn Hungarian passport
>>> #2 support Vojvodina-Hunarian economy directly going to the area.
Really, why don't you support Vojvodina and Kosovo you pretend to care that much about? Go there, have fun, give Hungarians or Albanians few Euro for the service they provide you like car-wash, restaurant, hotel and so on. One Euro to them directly is more worth than one fiery anti-Russian/anti-Serbian comment on B92. Put some deeds behind your words.
The Budapest-Subotica round-trip is less than 15 Euro and the Vienna-Pristina bus stops every day on M3 exit near Budapest - Albanian driver will give you the round-trip ticket for 100 Euro. Just in case you decide to go here and not to Caribbean. If you are lazy: support the Hungarian economy, too - come here, rent a car with automatic transmission from any new car dealership, costs only 40 Bucks/day and drive all over Vojvodina and Kosovo. Don't rent from Hertz or Budget, they charge you more and won't let you drive outside of EU.
Instead you boost not caring about EU and not having EU passport. That's funny.
BTW: I decided to settle on "half-Jew, half-Gypsy", hope it does satisfy you. If you like, I can change it to "half-Buddhist, half-Mexican". Whatever is fine if you are happy.
pre 14 godina
I don't care if you are Jewish and Russian
(Joe, 14 March 2010 18:28)
This is an other curse? Last time I was just half-Jew. Now being full-time Jew AND full-time Russian sounds like a nasty downgrade. You know... let's settle on "Jew from Belarus and Gypsy from Romania" because there is no downgrade from that point, things can go only better, right? One day I could be even upgraded to half-French, half-American if I behave better.
For the rest of your essay: you are correct. Vlora Citaku is of Serbian ethnic background and "sahovnica" was invented just to please Serbs.
pre 14 godina
I just find it very sad that the Hungarian authorithies became so stupide as to write-off and treat tens of thousands of American-Hungarians as foreigners but giving citizenship to some people, who are against them.
(Joe, 14 March 2010 18:28)
Mr. JH
They (Hungarian authorities) are OK tough - if someone writes that "that country, which is full of idiots, I think is impossible to move forward democratic way. If Orbán will be a loser, than in four years really Jobbik will come to govern - as I predicted and I just can't wait till it will happen"
I hope, my translation was correct (Feb.27)
http://tinyurl.com/ygby5zv
So why are you that upset??? All we want here that such horrors do not happen, Vlora Citku being the president, Tatabánya being re-named to Kragujevac and the "Zero Kilometer Stone" being painted in Croatian red-white checkered motive. All we want is merely saving the country, which is as you said "full of idiots and is impossible to move forward democratic way". Besides, I am sure, neither Mr. Tadić, nor Ms. Citaku, not even Mr. Josipović would tolerate "Jobbik" for even a nanosecond. I see only benefit for Hungary. Unless you really can't wait for Jobbik.... Geeeee....
See what happens if someone's words are taken out of context, turned around and re-applied? Your own words are not just insulting for Hungary but with a little bit more demagogic efforts I could paint you as a hard-core "Jobbikos".
I also can say, you try very hard to create a "hated" "Russian Jew" in the hope, that creature will make some effect on Serbs and Russians here and make a "breach" in enemy lines. Nice try which won't fly.
pre 14 godina
I also can say, you try very hard to create a "hated" "Russian Jew" in the hope, that creature will make some effect on Serbs and Russians here and make a "breach" in enemy lines. Nice try which won't fly.
(libertarian librarian tarjan, 15 March 2010 02:37)
Please help to remove that roll.
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