I am from The Netherlands. So what do you mean?
(Ron, 12 March 2010)
I assumed you were a Serb, after all why would a Dutchman get involved in Serb-Albanian dispute on a Serb site?
Forgive me my mistake please. However my point of uniting your people still stands as there's unfinished business with the Dutch people as well.
Isn't Vlaams Belang in Belgium adovcating independence from Belgium and some sort of federation with the Netherlands. Not unlike the Kosova situation don't you think?
Where on earth/international document it is stated that Kosovo/a is part of Serbia?
The Serbian panel here likes to make deductions and indecently profit in the name of former Yugoslavia. The Serbian panel when reading the Resolution 1244 only reads the part is interested to read such as "Yugoslavia"....Read and understand the whole Resolution in its entirety!
Someone here thinks that with one sentence the life and the dignity of two million people can be taken away...Very wrong judgement..
(EA, 11 March 2010 23:02)
EA - in 1999 Yugoslavia - Kosovo was part of federal republic of Serbia. You know this very good.
Where on earth/international document it is stated that Kosovo/a is part of Serbia?
The Serbian panel here likes to make deductions and indecently profit in the name of former Yugoslavia. The Serbian panel when reading the Resolution 1244 only reads the part is interested to read such as "Yugoslavia"....Read and understand the whole Resolution in its entirety!
Someone here thinks that with one sentence the life and the dignity of two million people can be taken away...Very wrong judgement..
You really think Kosovo will ever join Albania? You really think the West will ever allow that.
(Ron, 10 March 2010)
As an Albanian I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that it will happen. Will it happen next year? Of course not. Not even in the next five. However rest assured that the will of the people will be done.
We are de facto united as one nation. With the passage of time we will be united de jure as well.
Not really, because both Germany's had functioning economies (obviously one better than the other), but comparing these two, only the one can be used for this example.
And to the user who suggested Kosovo inevitably joins Albania, as with the Germany's, this is not possible because Albania has no claim on Kosovo and has nothing to do with its history, culture or anything else. The only connection is that there are Albanians living in both.
But Serbia did start the World War I.
(Hekuran, 10 March 2010 23:27)
that's a major rewriting of history right there, but why should anyone be surprised. like it has been said, if you only remotely could you'd blame serbia for everything else as well.
serbia did not start the ww1. that war started with the attack on serbia, so serbia was its first victim.
To: EA --
Very poor comment, if you had any background or knowledge of this situation you would already know that Serbia is the successor of Yugoslavia (according to 1244)... :)
"I think you are wrong purely that the 1244 refers to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether you are aware but Yugoslavia DOESN'T EXIST anymore."
============================
EA, if you don't get it by now then you never will. I don't know how many times it has been explained to you and the rest of your brothers here that Serbia is a successor to Yugoslavia, therefore Kosovo is still part of Serbia.
Why do you keep harping on this same silly quotation I don't know.
1. There is no willingness for peace, even not for any kind of solution.
2. A lot of people have no clue about european history.
3. With this mind you will have still quarrel in centuries.
4. You steal your children the future.
5. You invest you engergy in the wrong issue, you have so much other problems in your countries.
(robby, 10 March 2010 21:18)
======================
If you are talking to the Albanians then you are correct. They don't want to negotiate and they either don't know history or are changing it to suit them.
If you are talking to the Serbs you are wrong. They do want to talk and sort this out and they do know that Kosovo is Serbian and can prove it.
Now what would be your solution here? Would you just allow your territory to be taken away from you without a fight? Then when you choose to fight (diplomatically as the Serbs are doing) would you appreciate someone telling you that you are wrong and cheating your children out of a future?
Kosovo is not a country and to pretend it is one is a stupidity. The forced attempt to create a new country is because they do not want to complete the conquest of Serbian territory and hand it over the Albanian ethnic group. Kosovo as a country never existed in history, and it is a very artificial construct to try to make is so now.
The UK ambassador is probably right (if that is what he really meant) that a re-merger will take place in the future. However, there is the likelihood that the merger will be with Albania for the south and Serbia for the north.
The inevitable ethnic blurring across the borders means that Kosovo could never sustain as a country - already the north is clearly separated from the rest of the province.
I am really surprised at the weak analogy expressed by the ambassador. It does not stand up and really is expressing wishful thinking about the UK's wants. There is lots of fixated thinking in the UK's attitude to Serbia, so it is extremely unusual for such ill thought-out comment to be voiced.
His main message is that Serbia should 'cooperate'.
You are tempting fate with the Albanian hyper nationalists on that one. They will blame Serbia for both world wars, the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking it.
Be careful :)
(Niall O'Doherty, 10 March 2010 15:52)
Niall O'Doherty,
Serbia is not to blame for the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking, in this examples that you wrote Serbia is innocent ;)
I can see it now phalanxes of elite Albanians on jackasses charging into the valley of death to take Kosovo. Hollywood where are you?
(Pejoni, 10 March 2010 11:44)
Couldn’t agree more, but you might have a talk to your fellow countrymen going to Kragujevac looking for jobs.
(Demi, 10 March 2010 15:36)
No that’s not true. That was the story portrayed by the west, but in reality the east germans were not that keen to reunite. Go and ask them again now after 20 years of unification. The level of unemployment is extremely high in that part of Germany.
If I read some comments here, I came to follow conclusions:
1. There is no willingness for peace, even not for any kind of solution.
2. A lot of people have no clue about european history.
3. With this mind you will have still quarrel in centuries.
4. You steal your children the future.
5. You invest you engergy in the wrong issue, you have so much other problems in your countries.
"There is no independence. The province is an international protectorate and still legally remains part of Serbia."
I think you are wrong purely that the 1244 refers to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether you are aware but Yugoslavia DOESN'T EXIST anymore. I also would like to remind you that Serbia applied to ICJ for an OPINION regarding the unilateral Declaration of Independence. Although it was Serbia who applied to ICJ it hasn't said it will honour the Court's Opinion. Serbia instead has said it will never recognise Kosovo/a's independence. Do you get my point? If NOT it MEANS that Serbia doesn't give a damn about international law.
How? If something legally belongs to me it means I have ownership of it, I can do whatever I like with it. Serbia's representaves NEEDs Special permission to enter the territory of Kosovo from the Kosovo's authorities. Many of them have been refused ENTRY for TRESSPASSING. Do you understand these FACTS?
"...protectorate of the UN under Res. 1244) does not mean that Kosovo is independent.
" renewed status negotiations..." to find a solution that is agreed upon.
Give me one JUST one "acceptable" solution that COULD sastisfy both side. I am talking about "STATUS". Why would Serbia need a Kosovo/a without any authority over it? Why would Kosovo/a accept any Serbian authority over its territory?
An example for this, daily Danas quoted Stephen Wordsworth as saying, was the relationship between West and East Germany.
No - only exampe for Serbia is Cyprus and illegal pseudostate of Northern Cyprus.
"Moreover, President of East Germany Erich Honecker even visited Bonn, the capital of West Germany, in 1987. That’s as if, for example, Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci came here to Belgrade on an official visit".
But mr Honecker was not terrorist wanted for war crimes.
“Countries can mutually cooperate even though they have not recognized one another".
Of course I'm glad the irish didn't see things that way.
(DimTuc, 10 March 2010 17:08)
and why are you glad about that? it makes no sense whatsoever to have a strong opinion on nationalist issues if it doesn't concern you directly. would you be sad if the irish had decided to fight for their rights within the united kingdom?
Mr. Tank,
By citing Julia Gorin, a mouth piece of "American Concil for Kosovo", a nationalist organization funded by Serbian Disaspora and Serbian church, you are actually saying nothing.
"Equating Hashim Thaci with Erich Honecker might be contraversial in some quarters too. Intriguing."
(Dave)
-- Well it would at least give us inspiration to update the Hoenecker/Brezhnev "Kiss" painting with Thaci and Holbrooke. That's a serious bromance going on there :)
"There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country, Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Albanian hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Serbia and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song."
(Niall O'Doherty, 10 March 2010 15:49)
Let's rephrase your piece of ahistorical, non-contextual platitude shall we Niall:
"There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country , Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Irish hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Britain and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song."
Of course I'm glad the irish didn't see things that way.
reclaiming sovereignty over Kosova. The UK government should withdraw him immediately, othewise Britain can never again be trusted in Kosova.
(Fitim, 10 March 2010 12:28)
Sorry, I fail to see the difference...., ooops yep, Honecker wasn't on an Interpol list and was the head of A country!!
As to the comments, very ambigous indeed, another test in the air??
Wordworth misses one small, teeny tiny little detail over the "two Germanies" model:
Bonn always regarded the DDR as its own territory under Soviet occupation and had every intention of reunifying at some point. In fact, the FDR even regarded Pommerania, Silesia, and East Prussia as part of its territory up until 1989/1990 when. I'm not exactly sure if Mr. Wordworth's metaphor can properly work, unless he also regards Kosovo as part of Serbia but also under foreign occupation.
Oh yes, and one other thing. The DDR doesn't exist anymore and no one really fought for its sovereignty.
"Wow, the economically most powerful countries of the world are scared to annoy the Kosovo Albanians!
Take pride people of Kosovo you can make heads of state bow at your feet."
pss
Believe it or not but that is how it is!
"Hostages" precisely describes the West in Kosovo."
"The Albanians give us ultimatums, and we give the Serbs ultimatums. Our government toes the Albanian line, and our press toes the government line."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/04/the-blackmail-of-america/
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Yes because they are the same people. albanians and serbs are not the same people and should not live in the same state as each other. And if you consider the facts from the 90's serbs cannot live with any other people at all.
Two Germanies are not an example to Serbia, which has never started a World War...
(Felix, 10 March 2010 14:44)
You are tempting fate with the Albanian hyper nationalists on that one. They will blame Serbia for both world wars, the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking it.
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
(Gjergj Fishta, 10 March 2010 13:13)
Please look at the history of Germany. There wasn't any "Germany" till Otto Bismark. Before the end of 19th century:
- 10+ states
- not a single nation
- 10+ languages (people in Berlin do not understand people from Munich)
- history of permanent quarrel. Bayer and Preuss love each other like Serb and Albanian.
Otherwise the comparison to East Germany / West Germany was not the best, but for different reasons.
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
Kosovo VS Serbia:
2 States
2 Nations
2 Languages
2 Histories
Based on the numbers above, Kosovo VS Serbia yields the same numbers as comparing Kosovo VS China (well, the difference being that we did not fight against China……….well, Yet).
If you compared Kosovo with Albania you would have been closer to the East VS West Germany mark.
(Gjergj Fishta, 10 March 2010 13:13)
Gjergj,
Bang on about Germany but not so about Serbia and Kosovo.
Let me see -
Kosovo VS Serbia:
1 States (as per UN Res 1244)
2 Nations (Albanian and Serb)
2 Languages (ditto above)
2 Histories (ditto)
There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country, Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Albanian hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Serbia and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song.
You can't let someone illegally claim 15% of a nation's land just because you are scared of making them annoyed!
(kate, 10 March 2010 12:38)
Wow, the economically most powerful countries of the world are scared to annoy the Kosovo Albanians!
Take pride people of Kosovo you can make heads of state bow at your feet.
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
Kosovo VS Serbia:
2 States
2 Nations
2 Languages
2 Histories
Based on the numbers above, Kosovo VS Serbia yields the same numbers as comparing Kosovo VS China (well, the difference being that we did not fight against China……….well, Yet).
If you compared Kosovo with Albania you would have been closer to the East VS West Germany mark.
Quite remarkable comparison to be drawn. An imposed split that required the use of multinational armed forces to police and ultimately ended with the two sides being reformed into modern day Germany. Is there a subliminal message being issued by the UK ambassador as to how he really sees the issue of Kosovo being resolved?
"It is more difficult indeed for Albania to recognize Kosovo as independent because Kosovo is Albania. Official Tirana now should flexle its muscles and tell the truth that Kosovo is province/vilayet of Albania. Period"
Never heard of more dummy comparison or suggestion.
(dean SRB, 10 March 2010 11:54)
--
This is further proof that the plan to make Kosovo independent isn't working very well. Independence is irreversibly blocked and the EU is paying to maintain the status quo. How much longer can they last? This money is desperately needed in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain.
H: "The differece is that people in Kosovo mainly are not Serbs so i have to repeat again that independece is irreversible."
There is no independence. The province is an international protectorate and still legally remains part of Serbia.
A Unilateral Declaration of Independence (illegally made while a protectorate of the UN under Res. 1244) does not mean that Kosovo is independent.
I am certain that Serbia has no intention of trying to 'run' Kosovo - but there has to be renewed status negotiations to find a solution that is agreed upon.
You can't let someone illegally claim 15% of a nation's land just because you are scared of making them annoyed!
The British have a long record of duplicity as Ejup Ganic can tell you. However Wordsworth gone too far on this occasion. He compares our elected Prime Minister to a murderous communist dictator and implies to the Serbs that all they have to do is wait a decade or two before reclaiming sovereignty over Kosova. The UK government should withdraw him immediately, othewise Britain can never again be trusted in Kosova.
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Nice post Dave.
Especially since it touches the fundamental issue: the free will of the people. The citisens of eastrn and western Germany WANTED to unite in one coutry.
So if Kosovars and Serbs one day will want to unite in one country I have no objections on that. As far as the choice is free and democratic.
Same applies if Kosova wants to unite with Albania. Agree on this??
It is more difficult indeed for Albania to recognize Kosovo as independent because Kosovo is Albania. Official Tirana now should flexle its muscles and tell the truth that Kosovo is province/vilayet of Albania. Period
Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo AT ALL.Even 60% of today's Serbia IS NOT legitimate land BUT OCCUPIED.
History is reversing slowely but surely. It is a small revard to victims of occupation. Albanians are enjoying some of these rewards...more to come soon.
Never heard of more dummy comparison or suggestion.
So how flexible we should be, following visionary ambassador, in the case of illegal proclamation of independence?
Please advice, would love to hear and laugh.
It's not North Serbia and South Serbia. It's Serbia and Kosovo.
The differece is that people in Kosovo mainly are not Serbs so i have to repeat again that independece is irreversible.
p.s. This poor comments from British Ambassador were unnecessary.
"It is more difficult indeed for Albania to recognize Kosovo as independent because Kosovo is Albania. Official Tirana now should flexle its muscles and tell the truth that Kosovo is province/vilayet of Albania. Period"
H: "The differece is that people in Kosovo mainly are not Serbs so i have to repeat again that independece is irreversible."
There is no independence. The province is an international protectorate and still legally remains part of Serbia.
A Unilateral Declaration of Independence (illegally made while a protectorate of the UN under Res. 1244) does not mean that Kosovo is independent.
I am certain that Serbia has no intention of trying to 'run' Kosovo - but there has to be renewed status negotiations to find a solution that is agreed upon.
You can't let someone illegally claim 15% of a nation's land just because you are scared of making them annoyed!
Never heard of more dummy comparison or suggestion.
So how flexible we should be, following visionary ambassador, in the case of illegal proclamation of independence?
Please advice, would love to hear and laugh.
Never heard of more dummy comparison or suggestion.
(dean SRB, 10 March 2010 11:54)
--
This is further proof that the plan to make Kosovo independent isn't working very well. Independence is irreversibly blocked and the EU is paying to maintain the status quo. How much longer can they last? This money is desperately needed in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain.
It is more difficult indeed for Albania to recognize Kosovo as independent because Kosovo is Albania. Official Tirana now should flexle its muscles and tell the truth that Kosovo is province/vilayet of Albania. Period
Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo AT ALL.Even 60% of today's Serbia IS NOT legitimate land BUT OCCUPIED.
History is reversing slowely but surely. It is a small revard to victims of occupation. Albanians are enjoying some of these rewards...more to come soon.
Quite remarkable comparison to be drawn. An imposed split that required the use of multinational armed forces to police and ultimately ended with the two sides being reformed into modern day Germany. Is there a subliminal message being issued by the UK ambassador as to how he really sees the issue of Kosovo being resolved?
Two Germanies are not an example to Serbia, which has never started a World War...
(Felix, 10 March 2010 14:44)
You are tempting fate with the Albanian hyper nationalists on that one. They will blame Serbia for both world wars, the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking it.
Wordworth misses one small, teeny tiny little detail over the "two Germanies" model:
Bonn always regarded the DDR as its own territory under Soviet occupation and had every intention of reunifying at some point. In fact, the FDR even regarded Pommerania, Silesia, and East Prussia as part of its territory up until 1989/1990 when. I'm not exactly sure if Mr. Wordworth's metaphor can properly work, unless he also regards Kosovo as part of Serbia but also under foreign occupation.
Oh yes, and one other thing. The DDR doesn't exist anymore and no one really fought for its sovereignty.
But Serbia did start the World War I.
(Hekuran, 10 March 2010 23:27)
that's a major rewriting of history right there, but why should anyone be surprised. like it has been said, if you only remotely could you'd blame serbia for everything else as well.
serbia did not start the ww1. that war started with the attack on serbia, so serbia was its first victim.
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
Kosovo VS Serbia:
2 States
2 Nations
2 Languages
2 Histories
Based on the numbers above, Kosovo VS Serbia yields the same numbers as comparing Kosovo VS China (well, the difference being that we did not fight against China……….well, Yet).
If you compared Kosovo with Albania you would have been closer to the East VS West Germany mark.
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
Kosovo VS Serbia:
2 States
2 Nations
2 Languages
2 Histories
Based on the numbers above, Kosovo VS Serbia yields the same numbers as comparing Kosovo VS China (well, the difference being that we did not fight against China……….well, Yet).
If you compared Kosovo with Albania you would have been closer to the East VS West Germany mark.
(Gjergj Fishta, 10 March 2010 13:13)
Gjergj,
Bang on about Germany but not so about Serbia and Kosovo.
Let me see -
Kosovo VS Serbia:
1 States (as per UN Res 1244)
2 Nations (Albanian and Serb)
2 Languages (ditto above)
2 Histories (ditto)
There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country, Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Albanian hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Serbia and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song.
You can't let someone illegally claim 15% of a nation's land just because you are scared of making them annoyed!
(kate, 10 March 2010 12:38)
Wow, the economically most powerful countries of the world are scared to annoy the Kosovo Albanians!
Take pride people of Kosovo you can make heads of state bow at your feet.
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
(Gjergj Fishta, 10 March 2010 13:13)
Please look at the history of Germany. There wasn't any "Germany" till Otto Bismark. Before the end of 19th century:
- 10+ states
- not a single nation
- 10+ languages (people in Berlin do not understand people from Munich)
- history of permanent quarrel. Bayer and Preuss love each other like Serb and Albanian.
Otherwise the comparison to East Germany / West Germany was not the best, but for different reasons.
"Wow, the economically most powerful countries of the world are scared to annoy the Kosovo Albanians!
Take pride people of Kosovo you can make heads of state bow at your feet."
pss
Believe it or not but that is how it is!
"Hostages" precisely describes the West in Kosovo."
"The Albanians give us ultimatums, and we give the Serbs ultimatums. Our government toes the Albanian line, and our press toes the government line."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/04/the-blackmail-of-america/
"Equating Hashim Thaci with Erich Honecker might be contraversial in some quarters too. Intriguing."
(Dave)
-- Well it would at least give us inspiration to update the Hoenecker/Brezhnev "Kiss" painting with Thaci and Holbrooke. That's a serious bromance going on there :)
An example for this, daily Danas quoted Stephen Wordsworth as saying, was the relationship between West and East Germany.
No - only exampe for Serbia is Cyprus and illegal pseudostate of Northern Cyprus.
"Moreover, President of East Germany Erich Honecker even visited Bonn, the capital of West Germany, in 1987. That’s as if, for example, Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci came here to Belgrade on an official visit".
But mr Honecker was not terrorist wanted for war crimes.
“Countries can mutually cooperate even though they have not recognized one another".
reclaiming sovereignty over Kosova. The UK government should withdraw him immediately, othewise Britain can never again be trusted in Kosova.
(Fitim, 10 March 2010 12:28)
Sorry, I fail to see the difference...., ooops yep, Honecker wasn't on an Interpol list and was the head of A country!!
As to the comments, very ambigous indeed, another test in the air??
Mr. Tank,
By citing Julia Gorin, a mouth piece of "American Concil for Kosovo", a nationalist organization funded by Serbian Disaspora and Serbian church, you are actually saying nothing.
"I think you are wrong purely that the 1244 refers to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether you are aware but Yugoslavia DOESN'T EXIST anymore."
============================
EA, if you don't get it by now then you never will. I don't know how many times it has been explained to you and the rest of your brothers here that Serbia is a successor to Yugoslavia, therefore Kosovo is still part of Serbia.
Why do you keep harping on this same silly quotation I don't know.
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Yes because they are the same people. albanians and serbs are not the same people and should not live in the same state as each other. And if you consider the facts from the 90's serbs cannot live with any other people at all.
Kosovo is not a country and to pretend it is one is a stupidity. The forced attempt to create a new country is because they do not want to complete the conquest of Serbian territory and hand it over the Albanian ethnic group. Kosovo as a country never existed in history, and it is a very artificial construct to try to make is so now.
The UK ambassador is probably right (if that is what he really meant) that a re-merger will take place in the future. However, there is the likelihood that the merger will be with Albania for the south and Serbia for the north.
The inevitable ethnic blurring across the borders means that Kosovo could never sustain as a country - already the north is clearly separated from the rest of the province.
I am really surprised at the weak analogy expressed by the ambassador. It does not stand up and really is expressing wishful thinking about the UK's wants. There is lots of fixated thinking in the UK's attitude to Serbia, so it is extremely unusual for such ill thought-out comment to be voiced.
His main message is that Serbia should 'cooperate'.
To: EA --
Very poor comment, if you had any background or knowledge of this situation you would already know that Serbia is the successor of Yugoslavia (according to 1244)... :)
It's not North Serbia and South Serbia. It's Serbia and Kosovo.
The differece is that people in Kosovo mainly are not Serbs so i have to repeat again that independece is irreversible.
p.s. This poor comments from British Ambassador were unnecessary.
1. There is no willingness for peace, even not for any kind of solution.
2. A lot of people have no clue about european history.
3. With this mind you will have still quarrel in centuries.
4. You steal your children the future.
5. You invest you engergy in the wrong issue, you have so much other problems in your countries.
(robby, 10 March 2010 21:18)
======================
If you are talking to the Albanians then you are correct. They don't want to negotiate and they either don't know history or are changing it to suit them.
If you are talking to the Serbs you are wrong. They do want to talk and sort this out and they do know that Kosovo is Serbian and can prove it.
Now what would be your solution here? Would you just allow your territory to be taken away from you without a fight? Then when you choose to fight (diplomatically as the Serbs are doing) would you appreciate someone telling you that you are wrong and cheating your children out of a future?
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Nice post Dave.
Especially since it touches the fundamental issue: the free will of the people. The citisens of eastrn and western Germany WANTED to unite in one coutry.
So if Kosovars and Serbs one day will want to unite in one country I have no objections on that. As far as the choice is free and democratic.
Same applies if Kosova wants to unite with Albania. Agree on this??
Not really, because both Germany's had functioning economies (obviously one better than the other), but comparing these two, only the one can be used for this example.
And to the user who suggested Kosovo inevitably joins Albania, as with the Germany's, this is not possible because Albania has no claim on Kosovo and has nothing to do with its history, culture or anything else. The only connection is that there are Albanians living in both.
The British have a long record of duplicity as Ejup Ganic can tell you. However Wordsworth gone too far on this occasion. He compares our elected Prime Minister to a murderous communist dictator and implies to the Serbs that all they have to do is wait a decade or two before reclaiming sovereignty over Kosova. The UK government should withdraw him immediately, othewise Britain can never again be trusted in Kosova.
"There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country, Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Albanian hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Serbia and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song."
(Niall O'Doherty, 10 March 2010 15:49)
Let's rephrase your piece of ahistorical, non-contextual platitude shall we Niall:
"There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country , Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Irish hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Britain and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song."
Of course I'm glad the irish didn't see things that way.
Of course I'm glad the irish didn't see things that way.
(DimTuc, 10 March 2010 17:08)
and why are you glad about that? it makes no sense whatsoever to have a strong opinion on nationalist issues if it doesn't concern you directly. would you be sad if the irish had decided to fight for their rights within the united kingdom?
I can see it now phalanxes of elite Albanians on jackasses charging into the valley of death to take Kosovo. Hollywood where are you?
(Pejoni, 10 March 2010 11:44)
Couldn’t agree more, but you might have a talk to your fellow countrymen going to Kragujevac looking for jobs.
(Demi, 10 March 2010 15:36)
No that’s not true. That was the story portrayed by the west, but in reality the east germans were not that keen to reunite. Go and ask them again now after 20 years of unification. The level of unemployment is extremely high in that part of Germany.
You are tempting fate with the Albanian hyper nationalists on that one. They will blame Serbia for both world wars, the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking it.
Be careful :)
(Niall O'Doherty, 10 March 2010 15:52)
Niall O'Doherty,
Serbia is not to blame for the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking, in this examples that you wrote Serbia is innocent ;)
If I read some comments here, I came to follow conclusions:
1. There is no willingness for peace, even not for any kind of solution.
2. A lot of people have no clue about european history.
3. With this mind you will have still quarrel in centuries.
4. You steal your children the future.
5. You invest you engergy in the wrong issue, you have so much other problems in your countries.
"There is no independence. The province is an international protectorate and still legally remains part of Serbia."
I think you are wrong purely that the 1244 refers to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether you are aware but Yugoslavia DOESN'T EXIST anymore. I also would like to remind you that Serbia applied to ICJ for an OPINION regarding the unilateral Declaration of Independence. Although it was Serbia who applied to ICJ it hasn't said it will honour the Court's Opinion. Serbia instead has said it will never recognise Kosovo/a's independence. Do you get my point? If NOT it MEANS that Serbia doesn't give a damn about international law.
How? If something legally belongs to me it means I have ownership of it, I can do whatever I like with it. Serbia's representaves NEEDs Special permission to enter the territory of Kosovo from the Kosovo's authorities. Many of them have been refused ENTRY for TRESSPASSING. Do you understand these FACTS?
"...protectorate of the UN under Res. 1244) does not mean that Kosovo is independent.
" renewed status negotiations..." to find a solution that is agreed upon.
Give me one JUST one "acceptable" solution that COULD sastisfy both side. I am talking about "STATUS". Why would Serbia need a Kosovo/a without any authority over it? Why would Kosovo/a accept any Serbian authority over its territory?
Where on earth/international document it is stated that Kosovo/a is part of Serbia?
The Serbian panel here likes to make deductions and indecently profit in the name of former Yugoslavia. The Serbian panel when reading the Resolution 1244 only reads the part is interested to read such as "Yugoslavia"....Read and understand the whole Resolution in its entirety!
Someone here thinks that with one sentence the life and the dignity of two million people can be taken away...Very wrong judgement..
(EA, 11 March 2010 23:02)
EA - in 1999 Yugoslavia - Kosovo was part of federal republic of Serbia. You know this very good.
Where on earth/international document it is stated that Kosovo/a is part of Serbia?
The Serbian panel here likes to make deductions and indecently profit in the name of former Yugoslavia. The Serbian panel when reading the Resolution 1244 only reads the part is interested to read such as "Yugoslavia"....Read and understand the whole Resolution in its entirety!
Someone here thinks that with one sentence the life and the dignity of two million people can be taken away...Very wrong judgement..
You really think Kosovo will ever join Albania? You really think the West will ever allow that.
(Ron, 10 March 2010)
As an Albanian I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that it will happen. Will it happen next year? Of course not. Not even in the next five. However rest assured that the will of the people will be done.
We are de facto united as one nation. With the passage of time we will be united de jure as well.
I am from The Netherlands. So what do you mean?
(Ron, 12 March 2010)
I assumed you were a Serb, after all why would a Dutchman get involved in Serb-Albanian dispute on a Serb site?
Forgive me my mistake please. However my point of uniting your people still stands as there's unfinished business with the Dutch people as well.
Isn't Vlaams Belang in Belgium adovcating independence from Belgium and some sort of federation with the Netherlands. Not unlike the Kosova situation don't you think?
It is more difficult indeed for Albania to recognize Kosovo as independent because Kosovo is Albania. Official Tirana now should flexle its muscles and tell the truth that Kosovo is province/vilayet of Albania. Period
Serbia has nothing to do with Kosovo AT ALL.Even 60% of today's Serbia IS NOT legitimate land BUT OCCUPIED.
History is reversing slowely but surely. It is a small revard to victims of occupation. Albanians are enjoying some of these rewards...more to come soon.
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
Kosovo VS Serbia:
2 States
2 Nations
2 Languages
2 Histories
Based on the numbers above, Kosovo VS Serbia yields the same numbers as comparing Kosovo VS China (well, the difference being that we did not fight against China……….well, Yet).
If you compared Kosovo with Albania you would have been closer to the East VS West Germany mark.
It's not North Serbia and South Serbia. It's Serbia and Kosovo.
The differece is that people in Kosovo mainly are not Serbs so i have to repeat again that independece is irreversible.
p.s. This poor comments from British Ambassador were unnecessary.
The British have a long record of duplicity as Ejup Ganic can tell you. However Wordsworth gone too far on this occasion. He compares our elected Prime Minister to a murderous communist dictator and implies to the Serbs that all they have to do is wait a decade or two before reclaiming sovereignty over Kosova. The UK government should withdraw him immediately, othewise Britain can never again be trusted in Kosova.
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Yes because they are the same people. albanians and serbs are not the same people and should not live in the same state as each other. And if you consider the facts from the 90's serbs cannot live with any other people at all.
Mr. Tank,
By citing Julia Gorin, a mouth piece of "American Concil for Kosovo", a nationalist organization funded by Serbian Disaspora and Serbian church, you are actually saying nothing.
You are tempting fate with the Albanian hyper nationalists on that one. They will blame Serbia for both world wars, the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking it.
Be careful :)
(Niall O'Doherty, 10 March 2010 15:52)
Niall O'Doherty,
Serbia is not to blame for the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking, in this examples that you wrote Serbia is innocent ;)
An interesting comment, when one bears in mind that the two Germanys ultimately became one Germany again.
(Dave, 10 March 2010 11:11)
Nice post Dave.
Especially since it touches the fundamental issue: the free will of the people. The citisens of eastrn and western Germany WANTED to unite in one coutry.
So if Kosovars and Serbs one day will want to unite in one country I have no objections on that. As far as the choice is free and democratic.
Same applies if Kosova wants to unite with Albania. Agree on this??
Never heard of more dummy comparison or suggestion.
So how flexible we should be, following visionary ambassador, in the case of illegal proclamation of independence?
Please advice, would love to hear and laugh.
"It is more difficult indeed for Albania to recognize Kosovo as independent because Kosovo is Albania. Official Tirana now should flexle its muscles and tell the truth that Kosovo is province/vilayet of Albania. Period"
You can't let someone illegally claim 15% of a nation's land just because you are scared of making them annoyed!
(kate, 10 March 2010 12:38)
Wow, the economically most powerful countries of the world are scared to annoy the Kosovo Albanians!
Take pride people of Kosovo you can make heads of state bow at your feet.
H: "The differece is that people in Kosovo mainly are not Serbs so i have to repeat again that independece is irreversible."
There is no independence. The province is an international protectorate and still legally remains part of Serbia.
A Unilateral Declaration of Independence (illegally made while a protectorate of the UN under Res. 1244) does not mean that Kosovo is independent.
I am certain that Serbia has no intention of trying to 'run' Kosovo - but there has to be renewed status negotiations to find a solution that is agreed upon.
You can't let someone illegally claim 15% of a nation's land just because you are scared of making them annoyed!
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
Kosovo VS Serbia:
2 States
2 Nations
2 Languages
2 Histories
Based on the numbers above, Kosovo VS Serbia yields the same numbers as comparing Kosovo VS China (well, the difference being that we did not fight against China……….well, Yet).
If you compared Kosovo with Albania you would have been closer to the East VS West Germany mark.
(Gjergj Fishta, 10 March 2010 13:13)
Gjergj,
Bang on about Germany but not so about Serbia and Kosovo.
Let me see -
Kosovo VS Serbia:
1 States (as per UN Res 1244)
2 Nations (Albanian and Serb)
2 Languages (ditto above)
2 Histories (ditto)
There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country, Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Albanian hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Serbia and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song.
"There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country, Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Albanian hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Serbia and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song."
(Niall O'Doherty, 10 March 2010 15:49)
Let's rephrase your piece of ahistorical, non-contextual platitude shall we Niall:
"There are many instances around the world where 2 or more ethnic groups share the same country , Romania, Spain, Russia etc. All that needs to be down is for your leaders and for the Irish hypernationalists to drop the old irredentism towards Britain and both sides can sit down, talk and off to the pub afterwards for a sing song."
Of course I'm glad the irish didn't see things that way.
"There is no independence. The province is an international protectorate and still legally remains part of Serbia."
I think you are wrong purely that the 1244 refers to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether you are aware but Yugoslavia DOESN'T EXIST anymore. I also would like to remind you that Serbia applied to ICJ for an OPINION regarding the unilateral Declaration of Independence. Although it was Serbia who applied to ICJ it hasn't said it will honour the Court's Opinion. Serbia instead has said it will never recognise Kosovo/a's independence. Do you get my point? If NOT it MEANS that Serbia doesn't give a damn about international law.
How? If something legally belongs to me it means I have ownership of it, I can do whatever I like with it. Serbia's representaves NEEDs Special permission to enter the territory of Kosovo from the Kosovo's authorities. Many of them have been refused ENTRY for TRESSPASSING. Do you understand these FACTS?
"...protectorate of the UN under Res. 1244) does not mean that Kosovo is independent.
" renewed status negotiations..." to find a solution that is agreed upon.
Give me one JUST one "acceptable" solution that COULD sastisfy both side. I am talking about "STATUS". Why would Serbia need a Kosovo/a without any authority over it? Why would Kosovo/a accept any Serbian authority over its territory?
Never heard of more dummy comparison or suggestion.
(dean SRB, 10 March 2010 11:54)
--
This is further proof that the plan to make Kosovo independent isn't working very well. Independence is irreversibly blocked and the EU is paying to maintain the status quo. How much longer can they last? This money is desperately needed in Portugal, Ireland, Italy, Greece and Spain.
An example for this, daily Danas quoted Stephen Wordsworth as saying, was the relationship between West and East Germany.
No - only exampe for Serbia is Cyprus and illegal pseudostate of Northern Cyprus.
"Moreover, President of East Germany Erich Honecker even visited Bonn, the capital of West Germany, in 1987. That’s as if, for example, Kosovo Prime Minister Hashim Thaci came here to Belgrade on an official visit".
But mr Honecker was not terrorist wanted for war crimes.
“Countries can mutually cooperate even though they have not recognized one another".
Dave, slight miscalculation in your figures:
East Germany VS West Germany:
2 states,
1 Nation,
1 Language
1 History
(Gjergj Fishta, 10 March 2010 13:13)
Please look at the history of Germany. There wasn't any "Germany" till Otto Bismark. Before the end of 19th century:
- 10+ states
- not a single nation
- 10+ languages (people in Berlin do not understand people from Munich)
- history of permanent quarrel. Bayer and Preuss love each other like Serb and Albanian.
Otherwise the comparison to East Germany / West Germany was not the best, but for different reasons.
1. There is no willingness for peace, even not for any kind of solution.
2. A lot of people have no clue about european history.
3. With this mind you will have still quarrel in centuries.
4. You steal your children the future.
5. You invest you engergy in the wrong issue, you have so much other problems in your countries.
(robby, 10 March 2010 21:18)
======================
If you are talking to the Albanians then you are correct. They don't want to negotiate and they either don't know history or are changing it to suit them.
If you are talking to the Serbs you are wrong. They do want to talk and sort this out and they do know that Kosovo is Serbian and can prove it.
Now what would be your solution here? Would you just allow your territory to be taken away from you without a fight? Then when you choose to fight (diplomatically as the Serbs are doing) would you appreciate someone telling you that you are wrong and cheating your children out of a future?
Two Germanies are not an example to Serbia, which has never started a World War...
(Felix, 10 March 2010 14:44)
You are tempting fate with the Albanian hyper nationalists on that one. They will blame Serbia for both world wars, the plagues of Egypt, the fall of the Mayans and the goldfish croaking it.
I am from The Netherlands. So what do you mean?
(Ron, 12 March 2010)
I assumed you were a Serb, after all why would a Dutchman get involved in Serb-Albanian dispute on a Serb site?
Forgive me my mistake please. However my point of uniting your people still stands as there's unfinished business with the Dutch people as well.
Isn't Vlaams Belang in Belgium adovcating independence from Belgium and some sort of federation with the Netherlands. Not unlike the Kosova situation don't you think?
"Wow, the economically most powerful countries of the world are scared to annoy the Kosovo Albanians!
Take pride people of Kosovo you can make heads of state bow at your feet."
pss
Believe it or not but that is how it is!
"Hostages" precisely describes the West in Kosovo."
"The Albanians give us ultimatums, and we give the Serbs ultimatums. Our government toes the Albanian line, and our press toes the government line."
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/04/the-blackmail-of-america/
"I think you are wrong purely that the 1244 refers to Yugoslavia. I don't know whether you are aware but Yugoslavia DOESN'T EXIST anymore."
============================
EA, if you don't get it by now then you never will. I don't know how many times it has been explained to you and the rest of your brothers here that Serbia is a successor to Yugoslavia, therefore Kosovo is still part of Serbia.
Why do you keep harping on this same silly quotation I don't know.
Where on earth/international document it is stated that Kosovo/a is part of Serbia?
The Serbian panel here likes to make deductions and indecently profit in the name of former Yugoslavia. The Serbian panel when reading the Resolution 1244 only reads the part is interested to read such as "Yugoslavia"....Read and understand the whole Resolution in its entirety!
Someone here thinks that with one sentence the life and the dignity of two million people can be taken away...Very wrong judgement..
Quite remarkable comparison to be drawn. An imposed split that required the use of multinational armed forces to police and ultimately ended with the two sides being reformed into modern day Germany. Is there a subliminal message being issued by the UK ambassador as to how he really sees the issue of Kosovo being resolved?
reclaiming sovereignty over Kosova. The UK government should withdraw him immediately, othewise Britain can never again be trusted in Kosova.
(Fitim, 10 March 2010 12:28)
Sorry, I fail to see the difference...., ooops yep, Honecker wasn't on an Interpol list and was the head of A country!!
As to the comments, very ambigous indeed, another test in the air??
Wordworth misses one small, teeny tiny little detail over the "two Germanies" model:
Bonn always regarded the DDR as its own territory under Soviet occupation and had every intention of reunifying at some point. In fact, the FDR even regarded Pommerania, Silesia, and East Prussia as part of its territory up until 1989/1990 when. I'm not exactly sure if Mr. Wordworth's metaphor can properly work, unless he also regards Kosovo as part of Serbia but also under foreign occupation.
Oh yes, and one other thing. The DDR doesn't exist anymore and no one really fought for its sovereignty.
But Serbia did start the World War I.
(Hekuran, 10 March 2010 23:27)
that's a major rewriting of history right there, but why should anyone be surprised. like it has been said, if you only remotely could you'd blame serbia for everything else as well.
serbia did not start the ww1. that war started with the attack on serbia, so serbia was its first victim.
You really think Kosovo will ever join Albania? You really think the West will ever allow that.
(Ron, 10 March 2010)
As an Albanian I am ABSOLUTELY convinced that it will happen. Will it happen next year? Of course not. Not even in the next five. However rest assured that the will of the people will be done.
We are de facto united as one nation. With the passage of time we will be united de jure as well.
To: EA --
Very poor comment, if you had any background or knowledge of this situation you would already know that Serbia is the successor of Yugoslavia (according to 1244)... :)
I can see it now phalanxes of elite Albanians on jackasses charging into the valley of death to take Kosovo. Hollywood where are you?
(Pejoni, 10 March 2010 11:44)
Couldn’t agree more, but you might have a talk to your fellow countrymen going to Kragujevac looking for jobs.
(Demi, 10 March 2010 15:36)
No that’s not true. That was the story portrayed by the west, but in reality the east germans were not that keen to reunite. Go and ask them again now after 20 years of unification. The level of unemployment is extremely high in that part of Germany.
Not really, because both Germany's had functioning economies (obviously one better than the other), but comparing these two, only the one can be used for this example.
And to the user who suggested Kosovo inevitably joins Albania, as with the Germany's, this is not possible because Albania has no claim on Kosovo and has nothing to do with its history, culture or anything else. The only connection is that there are Albanians living in both.
"Equating Hashim Thaci with Erich Honecker might be contraversial in some quarters too. Intriguing."
(Dave)
-- Well it would at least give us inspiration to update the Hoenecker/Brezhnev "Kiss" painting with Thaci and Holbrooke. That's a serious bromance going on there :)
Kosovo is not a country and to pretend it is one is a stupidity. The forced attempt to create a new country is because they do not want to complete the conquest of Serbian territory and hand it over the Albanian ethnic group. Kosovo as a country never existed in history, and it is a very artificial construct to try to make is so now.
The UK ambassador is probably right (if that is what he really meant) that a re-merger will take place in the future. However, there is the likelihood that the merger will be with Albania for the south and Serbia for the north.
The inevitable ethnic blurring across the borders means that Kosovo could never sustain as a country - already the north is clearly separated from the rest of the province.
I am really surprised at the weak analogy expressed by the ambassador. It does not stand up and really is expressing wishful thinking about the UK's wants. There is lots of fixated thinking in the UK's attitude to Serbia, so it is extremely unusual for such ill thought-out comment to be voiced.
His main message is that Serbia should 'cooperate'.
Of course I'm glad the irish didn't see things that way.
(DimTuc, 10 March 2010 17:08)
and why are you glad about that? it makes no sense whatsoever to have a strong opinion on nationalist issues if it doesn't concern you directly. would you be sad if the irish had decided to fight for their rights within the united kingdom?
If I read some comments here, I came to follow conclusions:
1. There is no willingness for peace, even not for any kind of solution.
2. A lot of people have no clue about european history.
3. With this mind you will have still quarrel in centuries.
4. You steal your children the future.
5. You invest you engergy in the wrong issue, you have so much other problems in your countries.
Where on earth/international document it is stated that Kosovo/a is part of Serbia?
The Serbian panel here likes to make deductions and indecently profit in the name of former Yugoslavia. The Serbian panel when reading the Resolution 1244 only reads the part is interested to read such as "Yugoslavia"....Read and understand the whole Resolution in its entirety!
Someone here thinks that with one sentence the life and the dignity of two million people can be taken away...Very wrong judgement..
(EA, 11 March 2010 23:02)
EA - in 1999 Yugoslavia - Kosovo was part of federal republic of Serbia. You know this very good.
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