Turkish anger at U.S. Armenian genocide vote

Laughable. Germany until today is feeling the effects of war guilt and holocaust guilt (some younger Germans are even ashamed to associate themselves with Germany and being German, thanks to the propaganda their media feeds them), anything vaguely nationalist is met with a fine or even incarceration and the government is forever compensating someone who had it bad during the war.

This is one extreme, which I frankly find ridiculous.

The other extreme is Turkey. Everyone from the guy cleaning the toilets up until the president denies that there even was such a thing as an Armenian Genocide, probably calling all pictures and eye-witness accounts as fraud, not to mention the insane border shifts leaving Armenia a tiny fraction of what it once was. And what happened to the Armenian population of Anatolia? Did they just disappear into the wind, Mr Gul? Mr Erdogan, what do you think? Serbia is forever demonized for Srebrenica MASSACRE (not genocide), where 8 000 Bosniaks were killed, as opposed to 1.5 million Armenians (not even 1%!!!), yet Turkey is offered NATO membership, potential EU membership, while Serbia has even more obstacles than they do?

A German for even questioning the holocaust or parts thereof (such as Ernst Zundel), is imprisoned for 5 years, but in Turkey, the government makes it known to the world that they deny genocide! Where is the logic and justice in that?

Sick, offensive and ridiculous are words that come to mind when one thinks of the behaviour of the Turkish government.

Sick, offensive and ridiculous are words that come to mind when one thinks of the behaviour of the Turkish government.
(Peter Sudyka, 5 March 2010 11:58

Glad to see you back Peter.

It's amazing there has never been any honest discusion on those shameful events in Turkish history.Anything that opposes Turkish propaganda is a lie and defames the good name of the country.

I think the tide is slowly turned.Despite the $ millions
Turkey has been spending on lobbying US politicians the neonazi-like campaign of denying the Armenian genocide
is in the process of being defeated once and for all.

Turkish threats of the resolution jeopardising US-Turkish relations or Turkish-Armenian reconciliation are just excuses.In the last few months the world has seen that turkey is playing a dishonest game with Armenia and sets as a condition of opening its borders to Armenia the resolution in the conflict of Kharabach which of course has nothing to do with the events that took place in 1915.

I cannot agree more Peter Sudyka: There is no bigger offence than having the killer not recognising his murder, and even hunting down those who simply want to acknowledge!

Turkey has been doing everything possible in the last 20 years to stop the recognition of one of the biggest crimes humanity ever saw, to satisfy their ego.

The Armenian genocide, along with the Greek genocide by the Turks, is the second biggest genocide humanity ever saw after the holocaust. And these turkish citizens today, that their actual grandfathers were murdering thousands, today even dare to threat countries that simply want to recognize the crime. A total shame for the EU to have such a country like Turkey as an EU candidate...

"PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country had been accused of a crime it did not commit".

This is the worst part, definitely. It shows the edge human nature can reach. This man is not politician. Politician IS A LIAR- but not this way, and not so far.. Hang them now, it is opportunity.

No minorities recognised, no indigenous culture, murder,conversion,expulsion and total annihilation of a people.

Genocide is a term used so often today it has lost any meaning. This sad period is only one reminder of what it truly means.

As for Barack Hussein and Billary this resolution will go nowhere.

Leonidas and The Greek

Apologies, I have indeed forgotten to mention that hundreds of thousands of Greeks were also brutally murdered by the Ottomans.

I truly admire the Greek government for even maintaining any kind of diplomatic ties with Turkey after what they did to you.

If only they could show some penance by at least admitting that it happened before any kind of apology would be in order.

I guess it's just not in their culture and mentality.

Good to see you back here Peter!

You're absolutely right, this incessant (and increasingly pathetic) attempt by Ankara to stifle any and all alternative consideration of the events of 1915 in its official schools and institutions is beyond ridiculous. Moreover, I fail to see how something that happened 95 years ago can have such a potentially deleterious affect on Turkey's relations with the United States. Are the Kemalists (and I use "Kemalists" not "Turks" because it is the Kemalist historical memory that ironically perpetuates this denial - I know enough "Turks" who learn the truth) that paranoid at the thought the foundational myths of their glorious secular republic are built on blatant lies? Are they that paranoid at the thought of reparations, or even territorial reparations? Here we have what amounts to a regional superpower and mentioning the G-word is like throwing a chunk of Kryptonite at Superman.

I applaud the vote of the House Foreign Relations Committee and I hope the vote will go to Congress to pass.

This is 95 years too late.

A total shame for the EU to have such a country like Turkey as an EU candidate...
(The Greek, 5 March 2010 13:36)

Don't worry - they will be "candidates" for few more centuries, for sure well after EU in this form won't even exist anymore. No one needs this bird in EU.

Thank you, Mike.

Personally even an acknowledgement now would be a good start, but I guess they can't even afford all the millions of dead Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians and their surviving descendents that now, can they?

Too much to ask apparently.

On the flipside, perhaps it's good if US-Turkish relations spoil, maybe the US won't keep lobbying for Turkey's EU membership.

It would be a lot easier for many perpetrators of such crimes to fess up if they could easily pay for their misdeeds.

The US could pay out huge sums to Native Americans and African Americans.

Other western countries (Britain, Spain, France, Portugal, Holland, etc) could do the same.

The Israelis could possibly offer something to the Palestinians (I'm not so familiar with this particular case, but we all know the claims that Palestinians make).

And on and on and on.

Genocide, and other horrible crimes against a given nation, have been going on all over the world for thousands of years. The Turks probably would have long since lost this battle over terminology had their crimes been committed in 1995 instead of 1915. It's freightening to think what went on in the old days, when there was no Geneva Convention, no cell phone cameras, etc.

I suppose we're talking about the messy evolution of mankind. Obviously, the manner in which the politicians of the world deal with these issues is far from perfect. We see a lot of hypocrisy and unfairness (the US would do well to look in its own backyard before judging other countries).

On the other hand, at least we see a few of the many perpetrators punished, and we slowly develop a sense of what is just. Emphasis on the world "slowly".

It might sound completely outrageous to say this, but as horrific as the US invasion of Iraq has been (and I'm only going to give one example of disgusting US foreign policy), at least US soldiers haven't (for the most part) gone around Iraqi towns and villages raping, pillaging, plundering and enslaving. That's how these things went down in the old days.

Hopefully, the next stage of progress for mankind is choosing not to go to war in the first place.

1. The Armenian tragedy was much severe than what is known as Holocaust. Even if we rely on the 6 millions (which I hope to be much less) out of 14 millions of the Jews in Europe including Russia it makes some 43%. The Turks killed nearly all the Armenians they could reach. As a result they murdered 1,5 out of 2,5 millions Armenians in the Empire. Almost all the rest flew abroad and some managed to survive in the mountain regions.

2. Another important thing to be said is that the Jews did not have their own soil in Europe while the Armenians have lost vast territories around Ararat mountain and Anatolia. And if the things run as they run sooner or later we shall witness not only compensations but also the territorial problems to be raised.

3. Finally here comes the Kurds’ Question. You Europeans must be unaware that not only Turks massacred the Armenians. Kurds were very active here and they now occupy most of the traditional Armenian territories. Still according to the Turkish Constitution all citizens are Turks so formally they cannot share the responsibility with the Kurds. But please remember what I said for the Kurds are equal responsible.

Did any notice that there are no Albanian comments defending their Turkish brothers and slamming the US? The Albanians thrived quite well in the Ottoman empire and once their masters were defeated and gone they could not accomplish much. It will be quite interesting how this is going to evolve. In the worst case for the US Turkey will not allow them to use Turkey's airbases and airspace for the its war on terror efforts (or is it terror war efforts?) which could mean that operations in Iraq and Afghanistan could be in jeopardy with possible catastrophic consequences for the US and its NATO allies. I am sure that it will not go to the House of Representatives for a vote, because Obama and Clinton will put all their pressures to avoid that.

Did any notice that there are no Albanian comments defending their Turkish brothers and slamming the US? The Albanians thrived quite well in the Ottoman empire and once their masters were defeated and gone they could not accomplish much. It will be quite interesting how this is going to evolve. In the worst case for the US Turkey will not allow them to use Turkey's airbases and airspace for the its war on terror efforts (or is it terror war efforts?) which could mean that operations in Iraq and Afghanistan could be in jeopardy with possible catastrophic consequences for the US and its NATO allies. I am sure that it will not go to the House of Representatives for a vote, because Obama and Clinton will put all their pressures to avoid that.
(Milan, 5 March 2010 23:46)

Yes, Milan, the collective Albanian silence is deafening. I think in general they act like literary terrorists here. They write something, are proven wrong, then they retreat and wait until another day to start again with false information. In this case they cannot win, so they remain silent.

(Milan, 5 March 2010 23:46)

Yes there will be a lot of talk but Turkey cannot alienate the US because it relies on aid to survive; Turkey is much like Egypt, without aid they are dead in the water.

Perhaps Milan the reason why no b92 Albanian viewers are defending their Turkish "brothers" is because Albania,if I'm not mistaken,revolted against Ottoman Rule.I don't know about you Milan but I find Albanians have some similarities with the Turks in the sense that there's something about the Albanian language that makes it sound Turkish- like and some Albanians I find speak with a Turkish- like accent.My point is is it true that some Albanians don't like being mistaken for Turks? I believe I read that on-line.

"No minorities recognised, no indigenous culture, murder,conversion,expulsion and total annihilation of a people. "

Mmmm, why this sounds not so strange in connection with their new best gas friends also?

No minorities recognised, no indigenous culture, murder,conversion,expulsion and total annihilation of a people.

Genocide is a term used so often today it has lost any meaning. This sad period is only one reminder of what it truly means.

As for Barack Hussein and Billary this resolution will go nowhere.

"No minorities recognised, no indigenous culture, murder,conversion,expulsion and total annihilation of a people. "

Mmmm, why this sounds not so strange in connection with their new best gas friends also?

Laughable. Germany until today is feeling the effects of war guilt and holocaust guilt (some younger Germans are even ashamed to associate themselves with Germany and being German, thanks to the propaganda their media feeds them), anything vaguely nationalist is met with a fine or even incarceration and the government is forever compensating someone who had it bad during the war.

This is one extreme, which I frankly find ridiculous.

The other extreme is Turkey. Everyone from the guy cleaning the toilets up until the president denies that there even was such a thing as an Armenian Genocide, probably calling all pictures and eye-witness accounts as fraud, not to mention the insane border shifts leaving Armenia a tiny fraction of what it once was. And what happened to the Armenian population of Anatolia? Did they just disappear into the wind, Mr Gul? Mr Erdogan, what do you think? Serbia is forever demonized for Srebrenica MASSACRE (not genocide), where 8 000 Bosniaks were killed, as opposed to 1.5 million Armenians (not even 1%!!!), yet Turkey is offered NATO membership, potential EU membership, while Serbia has even more obstacles than they do?

A German for even questioning the holocaust or parts thereof (such as Ernst Zundel), is imprisoned for 5 years, but in Turkey, the government makes it known to the world that they deny genocide! Where is the logic and justice in that?

Sick, offensive and ridiculous are words that come to mind when one thinks of the behaviour of the Turkish government.

Did any notice that there are no Albanian comments defending their Turkish brothers and slamming the US? The Albanians thrived quite well in the Ottoman empire and once their masters were defeated and gone they could not accomplish much. It will be quite interesting how this is going to evolve. In the worst case for the US Turkey will not allow them to use Turkey's airbases and airspace for the its war on terror efforts (or is it terror war efforts?) which could mean that operations in Iraq and Afghanistan could be in jeopardy with possible catastrophic consequences for the US and its NATO allies. I am sure that it will not go to the House of Representatives for a vote, because Obama and Clinton will put all their pressures to avoid that.
(Milan, 5 March 2010 23:46)

Yes, Milan, the collective Albanian silence is deafening. I think in general they act like literary terrorists here. They write something, are proven wrong, then they retreat and wait until another day to start again with false information. In this case they cannot win, so they remain silent.

"PM Recep Tayyip Erdogan said his country had been accused of a crime it did not commit".

This is the worst part, definitely. It shows the edge human nature can reach. This man is not politician. Politician IS A LIAR- but not this way, and not so far.. Hang them now, it is opportunity.

Sick, offensive and ridiculous are words that come to mind when one thinks of the behaviour of the Turkish government.
(Peter Sudyka, 5 March 2010 11:58

Glad to see you back Peter.

It's amazing there has never been any honest discusion on those shameful events in Turkish history.Anything that opposes Turkish propaganda is a lie and defames the good name of the country.

I think the tide is slowly turned.Despite the $ millions
Turkey has been spending on lobbying US politicians the neonazi-like campaign of denying the Armenian genocide
is in the process of being defeated once and for all.

Turkish threats of the resolution jeopardising US-Turkish relations or Turkish-Armenian reconciliation are just excuses.In the last few months the world has seen that turkey is playing a dishonest game with Armenia and sets as a condition of opening its borders to Armenia the resolution in the conflict of Kharabach which of course has nothing to do with the events that took place in 1915.

I cannot agree more Peter Sudyka: There is no bigger offence than having the killer not recognising his murder, and even hunting down those who simply want to acknowledge!

Turkey has been doing everything possible in the last 20 years to stop the recognition of one of the biggest crimes humanity ever saw, to satisfy their ego.

The Armenian genocide, along with the Greek genocide by the Turks, is the second biggest genocide humanity ever saw after the holocaust. And these turkish citizens today, that their actual grandfathers were murdering thousands, today even dare to threat countries that simply want to recognize the crime. A total shame for the EU to have such a country like Turkey as an EU candidate...

A total shame for the EU to have such a country like Turkey as an EU candidate...
(The Greek, 5 March 2010 13:36)

Don't worry - they will be "candidates" for few more centuries, for sure well after EU in this form won't even exist anymore. No one needs this bird in EU.

Leonidas and The Greek

Apologies, I have indeed forgotten to mention that hundreds of thousands of Greeks were also brutally murdered by the Ottomans.

I truly admire the Greek government for even maintaining any kind of diplomatic ties with Turkey after what they did to you.

If only they could show some penance by at least admitting that it happened before any kind of apology would be in order.

I guess it's just not in their culture and mentality.

Good to see you back here Peter!

You're absolutely right, this incessant (and increasingly pathetic) attempt by Ankara to stifle any and all alternative consideration of the events of 1915 in its official schools and institutions is beyond ridiculous. Moreover, I fail to see how something that happened 95 years ago can have such a potentially deleterious affect on Turkey's relations with the United States. Are the Kemalists (and I use "Kemalists" not "Turks" because it is the Kemalist historical memory that ironically perpetuates this denial - I know enough "Turks" who learn the truth) that paranoid at the thought the foundational myths of their glorious secular republic are built on blatant lies? Are they that paranoid at the thought of reparations, or even territorial reparations? Here we have what amounts to a regional superpower and mentioning the G-word is like throwing a chunk of Kryptonite at Superman.

I applaud the vote of the House Foreign Relations Committee and I hope the vote will go to Congress to pass.

This is 95 years too late.

It would be a lot easier for many perpetrators of such crimes to fess up if they could easily pay for their misdeeds.

The US could pay out huge sums to Native Americans and African Americans.

Other western countries (Britain, Spain, France, Portugal, Holland, etc) could do the same.

The Israelis could possibly offer something to the Palestinians (I'm not so familiar with this particular case, but we all know the claims that Palestinians make).

And on and on and on.

Genocide, and other horrible crimes against a given nation, have been going on all over the world for thousands of years. The Turks probably would have long since lost this battle over terminology had their crimes been committed in 1995 instead of 1915. It's freightening to think what went on in the old days, when there was no Geneva Convention, no cell phone cameras, etc.

I suppose we're talking about the messy evolution of mankind. Obviously, the manner in which the politicians of the world deal with these issues is far from perfect. We see a lot of hypocrisy and unfairness (the US would do well to look in its own backyard before judging other countries).

On the other hand, at least we see a few of the many perpetrators punished, and we slowly develop a sense of what is just. Emphasis on the world "slowly".

It might sound completely outrageous to say this, but as horrific as the US invasion of Iraq has been (and I'm only going to give one example of disgusting US foreign policy), at least US soldiers haven't (for the most part) gone around Iraqi towns and villages raping, pillaging, plundering and enslaving. That's how these things went down in the old days.

Hopefully, the next stage of progress for mankind is choosing not to go to war in the first place.

Thank you, Mike.

Personally even an acknowledgement now would be a good start, but I guess they can't even afford all the millions of dead Armenians, Greeks and Assyrians and their surviving descendents that now, can they?

Too much to ask apparently.

On the flipside, perhaps it's good if US-Turkish relations spoil, maybe the US won't keep lobbying for Turkey's EU membership.

1. The Armenian tragedy was much severe than what is known as Holocaust. Even if we rely on the 6 millions (which I hope to be much less) out of 14 millions of the Jews in Europe including Russia it makes some 43%. The Turks killed nearly all the Armenians they could reach. As a result they murdered 1,5 out of 2,5 millions Armenians in the Empire. Almost all the rest flew abroad and some managed to survive in the mountain regions.

2. Another important thing to be said is that the Jews did not have their own soil in Europe while the Armenians have lost vast territories around Ararat mountain and Anatolia. And if the things run as they run sooner or later we shall witness not only compensations but also the territorial problems to be raised.

3. Finally here comes the Kurds’ Question. You Europeans must be unaware that not only Turks massacred the Armenians. Kurds were very active here and they now occupy most of the traditional Armenian territories. Still according to the Turkish Constitution all citizens are Turks so formally they cannot share the responsibility with the Kurds. But please remember what I said for the Kurds are equal responsible.

Did any notice that there are no Albanian comments defending their Turkish brothers and slamming the US? The Albanians thrived quite well in the Ottoman empire and once their masters were defeated and gone they could not accomplish much. It will be quite interesting how this is going to evolve. In the worst case for the US Turkey will not allow them to use Turkey's airbases and airspace for the its war on terror efforts (or is it terror war efforts?) which could mean that operations in Iraq and Afghanistan could be in jeopardy with possible catastrophic consequences for the US and its NATO allies. I am sure that it will not go to the House of Representatives for a vote, because Obama and Clinton will put all their pressures to avoid that.

Perhaps Milan the reason why no b92 Albanian viewers are defending their Turkish "brothers" is because Albania,if I'm not mistaken,revolted against Ottoman Rule.I don't know about you Milan but I find Albanians have some similarities with the Turks in the sense that there's something about the Albanian language that makes it sound Turkish- like and some Albanians I find speak with a Turkish- like accent.My point is is it true that some Albanians don't like being mistaken for Turks? I believe I read that on-line.

(Milan, 5 March 2010 23:46)

Yes there will be a lot of talk but Turkey cannot alienate the US because it relies on aid to survive; Turkey is much like Egypt, without aid they are dead in the water.