"Italy will respect ICJ decision on Kosovo"

"Of course, we will respect whatever the decision the court makes," he underscored.

Thank you mr Frattini! That's all the Serbs ask for. International law must be respected or we will witness more Frankenstein creations like this illegal UDI in the future.

Kosovo je Srbija!

A: "But just let me remind you that to respect an advisory opinion means nothing. It is an advisory opinion that does not obligate."

No, but many countries will abide by the ruling because:

(a) they do not want to fall foul of international law (who knows what problems that could cause them and the 'international community' further down the line?) and

(b) those who were pressured into, or half-hearted about supporting the UDI will find this to be a great way out. Is the US and its minions going to complain that countries wish to abide by the findings of the international court? I don't think so.

All that remains is to see whether the court is true to the law or comes up with some half-way fudge for political purposes. I really hope that they rule on the basis of law - this case is very cut and dry and should fall firmly in Serbia's favour.

"Did you know that you serbs are from caucaos?"
Demi

No I didn't know that but thanks for telling me! I guess what's left is for me to give you the keys to my house in Svilajnac and go back to the caucasus on my donkey. By the way do you also support that the native americans should have their land back from the Europeans? They were there first!

You albanians are getting nervous. You know that your frankenstein banana republic is comming to an end and you make up rediculous claims.

Demi

Kosovo has always been Serbian. Never ever albanian. Our churches and monasteries are proof of that. What's your proof? Made up stories about some imaginary culture that is no where to be found in history books.

Kosovo jam Serbe!

The court is well aware of Serbian declaration that they will NOT respect any decision that says Kosovo's independence is in accordance with international law.
(A, 4 March 2010 10:19)
--
Serbia will certainly respect the decision but it doesn't oblige anyone to recognise Kosovo. It will only state whether the UDI was legal or not. If it was legal then anyone who wants to recognise can but if it wasn't legal then those who have recognised will be supporting an illegal entity.

No one is ever under any obligation to recognise Kosovo regardless of the outcome. The fact that sufficient powerful countries have already made up their mind and will never recognise Kosovo is enough to ensure independence is never achieved. It's a lost cause so the sooner we all head back to the negotiating table, the better. Independence is irreversibly blocked.

Demi,
for whatever do you mean with your statement
"Where was international law when 900 000 albanians was forced to leave their homes in Kosovo because of repression from Serbia ?"

Those so called 900,000 Albanian citizens were returning home to their parents in Albania, because of NATO's bombing raids.

Has your selective memory forgotten about the "shock and awe" and statements about how Serbia's military was a formidable foe.

The whole Kosovo war was televised as a prime time televison event all over North America. This new 78 day long tv show only portrayed the Serbs as being evil.

I gather that you were watching a different tv channel then the rest of us.

I recommend that you research the statements of Canada's retired Major General Lewis Mackenzie, as he sums up the engineered war very thoroughly.

(Demi, 4 March 2010 11:16)

You must have a crystal ball to guess that the ICJ will rule in favour of the Albanians. If you’re that dim then here it is – the Court was asked whether it was legal for Kosovo to breakaway NOT whether 900,000 Albanians are going to be forced to “leave their homes”. If they are Serbian citizens then they will not be “forced to leave their homes”, but if not, it Ta, Ta.
Please no more about your Illyrian heritage. There is no archeological evidence that substantiates these ludicrous claims – this means there are no buildings/ruins constructed 2000 years ago which prove your claims. There is plenty of Roman and Greek and in the later years Serbian, but NO Albanian. You guys arrived with the Turks.

Ian, UK: "Italy will respect this advisory opinion, however Italy's position on Kosovo's status has already been finalised."

Several states have mentioned the possibility of withdrawing recognition. What makes you so sure that Italy won't?

In case you missed it, Berlusconi & Tadic have forged stronger relationships between their countries recently. It is far more important for Italy to deal with Serbia than Kosovo.

"However, serbs ALWAYS fail to answer ONE QUESTION...will Serbia (since it wants from other countries to) accept the final judgment regardless the outcome????
PRN

Will the albanians????
That's the question you should be prepared to answer since the decision will be in Serbias favour.

John: "Your simplistic world that we-Serbs-are-always-right-and-the-victims is never going to end, right?"

I am not Serbian, I am British. I am speaking about what is clearly the case in international law.

To use the argument that an 'oppressed' majority within an area of a state has the right to declare independence is ridiculous in this case.

An agreement for the province of Kosovo to become an international protectorate (but remain within the sovereign boundaries of Serbia) had been made only a few years previously (UN Res 1244).

Kosovo was being administered by the UN under UN Res 1244 when it declared independence, which is merely an attempt to take advantage of a situation and annex territory. That is illegal.

The way forward is for all parties to return to the negotiating table and agree to a longterm status solution.

Kosovo is not alright, despite what people on here say. How many of them actually live there anyway? Or have to feed kids and worry about heating, education etc?

Its people live in poverty, have mass unemployment, and its minorities live in sealed enclaves. Its govt is being investigated for corruption and other criminal activities.

Once the status issue is resolved, things can move forward. New politicians and diplomats are needed, regionally and internationally, to handle this matter. Serbia is the only party which has actually changed and evolved since 1999 - the rest are just so stuck in their ways they are incapable of change.

Italy has finished its business with recognistion of KOsovo in years ago (March 2008).

However, serbs ALWAYS fail to answer ONE QUESTION...will Serbia (since it wants from other countries to) accept the final judgment regardless the outcome????

The answer we ALL know. ONLY if it good for Serbia. This is not surpsing to anyone who knows Serbian hypocrisy.

Yes we respect the tribunal but...we have already decided on the matter...Nothing new in this interview from our Fm as always much "fair and balance "..

Highly interesting statement by Italian FM Frattini.

It proves that "hectic", active, principle and just diplomacy by Serbia and Jeremić is bringing wanted result.
Also we are winning back the friendship relation with our previous, historical and traditional alleys like Italy and on that way we are giving them the legal attributes to decide to reverse their decision.

It is about the time for the negotiations and the adequate level of autonomy and self-goverment is the best that Kosovo Albanians will get.Certainly as well the best option and only option for their economical prosperity too.

The court will decide in favor of Kosovo. But just let me remind you that to respect an advisory opinion means nothing. It is an advisory opinion that does not obligate. The court is well aware of Serbian declaration that they will NOT respect any decision that says Kosovo's independence is in accordance with international law. This is only a delay of the tough but inescapable decision Serbian must make to tell their citizens that Kosovo is lost for ever.

Respecting the decision does not mean italy will withdraw recognition when the ICJ rules against the UDI. This is just double-talk. In spite of their hysterical gibberish, the k-albos are out on limb now that will easily get cut off. They lost this case when the ICJ started taking statements. Even the vaunted united states of arrogance knows this when it begged the court not to hear the case and dropped its "sui jello" argument. If just one recognition is withdrawn, not only have they lost their dream of stealing Serbian land, they have no bargaining position other than us occupation troops. These fools who say this case means nothing don't realize that this is just step 1. Jeremic thinks that step 2 is a lawsuit against the us and all of its puppet regimes. Maybe, but Step 2A is a General Assembly vote to kick the us-uk-frog group out of the Security Council. I estimate 70% of the UN membership would vote for that.

Canada will respect the ICJ rulering too! And so will I suspect at least a dozen or more countries which will reduce the number of countries recognizing this wanna-be state by 35% to 45% plus assure no further recognitions.

Poverty and crime, corruption and unemployment will increase even more and less hand-outs will come into Kosovo as the whole world is watching every dollar, these days.

There is nothing for Albanians to look forward to in the future, they will be imprisoned in in Kosovo, as well their children. But hey, they can always pretend they are independent.

I really hope that they rule on the basis of law - this case is very cut and dry and should fall firmly in Serbia's favour.
(kate, 4 March 2010 11:10)


Well it is not against the law to declare independence from a country that have killed you people for decades. And we albanians have never had peace with serbs so I don't see any reason for Kosovo to stay under serbian rule since the albanian majority in Kosovo can rule them self without Serbia.

And when it comes to the land Kosovo belong first of all to the people wich lives there and have lived there for hundred of years. If the people of Kosovo wants to Kosovo to take another direction in their future they have fully right to do it without Serbia interfering. Serbia cannot decide the fate of 2 million albanians wich Serbia dosent at all care about.



But anyway it is too late for everything. Nothing can change the fact that Kosovo is independent and recognized by the most powerful countrys of the world and the superpower of the world USA. After the courts opinion in favor of Kosovo the remaining countrys wich haven't recognized Kosovo yet will do so.

The battle of Kosovo is over and Serbia lost. Kosovo and it's people win. Period!!

Nothing will change because the opinion of the court will be in favor of Kosovo. There is nothing in international law that sayes that you cannnot seccede from a country. How did Serbia became independent then ?`Or Montengro?


Where was international law when 900 000 albanians was forced to leave their homes in Kosovo because of repression from Serbia ? In that time you only wanted the land and rule albanian land. Did you know that you serbs are from caucaos ?

"...can you name me 5 countries that have uttered the words "withdraw" in the context of Kosovo's recognition of independence?..."

>>> Italy just slightly have been suggesting that option with this particular B92 news. Further for you kind information just one "reverse" will be enough to annulate altogether that illegal process of "independence".

And can you suggest when do you expect that China, Russia, Brazil,India and Indonesia, for example, will "recognize" that part of Serbian territory as an renegade "independent state"?

Ultimate question is, who is having the time on its side? And the answer is: Serbia!
Kosovo Albanians "black hole" is desperate to develop in every sense and without direct Serbia's "blessing" that is one final NO, NO, NO, NO.

Our FM Frattini is so balanced that says that we respect international law after the recognition of the independence of a state that was clearly against the respect of a UN resolution and against the international law. I really have nothing against Albanian, but we should admit that the independence of Kosovo is, under a juridically point of view, a monster. If I would be Serbian I would not like to have an "advocat" like Frattini.....

I am always fascinated by the way in which KAs come here and start insisting that there is no such thing as international law and that the ICJ case is just an advisory opinion with no real meaning. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You cannot simply ignore the considered legal opinion of the 15 most eminent international jurists in the world and then expect that the international system can just continue on its merry way as if nothing has happened. If the countries that support UDI choose to ignore an unfavourable opinion by the ICJ on this issue, then they effectively undermine the ICJ as the judicial organ of the UN. The impact of this on international peace and stability will be enormous.

Apart from the US, which has always opposed this case, and seems not to care that much about the ICJ ruling, the EU countries that support the UDI know full well that if the Court rules against the declaration of independence there will have to be new talks to try to resolve the mess that has been created by their handling of the Kosovo issue. If they don't go along with the Court's decision, then the EU's claim to be guided by, and ensure wider compliance with, international law will be fatally undermined in the view of the rest of the world. This will debase the EU's soft power currency. The KAs might not understand this, or might try to argue against it, but there are much higher principles and issues at stake here.

Of course, we will respect whatever the decision the court makes," he underscored.


Very diplomatic statemant, I must say.
I know serb camp will jump to their own conclusion on this statemant, but they have to learn to read between lines.

It's amazing to read how little people understand the concept of "international law"

Basically, there's no such thing, as such.

"International law" is shorthand for one of three things.

1) agreements between nations.

2) Rulings of the UN security council

3) Rulings of the UN General Assembly.


None of these things are "law" in the sense of that means on the national level. Countries have courts, police, prosecutors, etc.

"Decisions" in the General Assembly are meaningless, as they are unenforceable, though some will refer to their judgments sometimes as 'law'


ICJ isn't really a court, as such. It's an advisory body to the General Assembly, which can do nothing.

This ICJ case is a whole lot of nothing. I feel sorry for Serbs who think that something can come of this. They've either been sold lies or they want to believe lies.

Aha...

seems that the decision is already known to this gentleman

I am glad to see 22 people here ( = all previous commentators) who NEVER EVER had even a minor case before the judge.

This is as I believe due the fact, most people rather pay their tickets off in full. Or never put any credit card charge in disputed status.

To the defense of Albanian and Serbian bloggers:

1) the traffic tickets there are to be paid on the spot and it is usually simpler + cheaper to negotiate with the KPS or MUP than go to the judge.

2) the coverage credit cards in East Europe do provide is very-very weak. In most cases there is no such thing as "putting a charge in dispute".

In the States the situation is completely different. You better to take any traffic ticket to the traffic court and put any credit card charge which is questionable into "disputed" status and it could later land in Small Claims Court if you fill the charges against the credit card company.

In both cases (Traffic Court or Small Claims Court) the decision of judge(s) is 100% unpredictable. Sometimes the decision can even violate the law - but it's final. It is essentially a lottery.

I believe, Serbia is correct with that dispute but what I said about courts and lottery probably does apply here. Besides, everyone involved does try to apply a pressure on the court.

The court is well aware of Serbian declaration that they will NOT respect any decision that says Kosovo's independence is in accordance with international law.
(A, 4 March 2010 10:19)

----

By the way, this point about Serbia's position keeps coming up as well. There is a very good reason why Serbia says that it won't recognise Kosovo no matter what the Court rules. It is because the countries that support UDI, such as the US, keep saying that the result won't matter. If Serbia says that it will accept the ruling, and these countries say that they won't, then perhaps it might create an incentive for the Court to take a political position and come down in support of the UDI knowing that Belgrade is committed to accepting it. This is why Serbia's initial position that it would respect the decision actually changed.

In reality, the decision will have an impact on both sides. They both know it, even if they are both are currently pretending that it won't.

No country will withdraw their recognition because it's simply not worth the trouble to them
(Danilo, 4 March 2010 21:51)
==================

Are you sure?
Some might be looking for a legitimate reason to release themselves from American orders.

Danilo - If you are a Serb, then why would you speak about Serbs in the third person eg:

"I feel sorry for Serbs who think that something can come of this. They've either been sold lies or they want to believe lies."

And things like "poor little Serbia". These are all third party statements and would be worded very differently if you were actually a Serb yourself.

Nobody would talk about their own country in such an outside fashion.

I suppose as a 'Serb' you also happen to believe that Greater Albania is a good idea and in the Illyrian history of Kosovo.

All that remains is to see whether the court is true to the law or comes up with some half-way fudge for political purposes.
(kate, 4 March 2010 11:10)

Of course, kate, either the verdict is in our favor or our we will spread the propaganda that it is a bought verdict. Your simplistic world that we-Serbs-are-always-right-and-the-victims is never going to end, right? Well, no wonder why you will never grasp why the civilized world doesn't comply to your wishes. You simply exclude the fact that you are wrong. International Law is nothing what is completed. It is in a constant progress. 2000 years ago it was different than after WW2, and today it is different then when the UN was setup, and in 1000 years it will be again different.

No country will withdraw their recognition because it's simply not worth the trouble to them
(Danilo, 4 March 2010 21:51)

Probably CZ and PL would. I also can imagine Portugal, New Zealand and to a much lesser degree Hungary or Bulgaria. FYROM and CG are in very difficult position, not sure.

Let's say, CZ and PL will probably do, in particular CZ has a strong "anti-Kosovo-UDI" stance inside and some negative messages regarding Kosovo are coming from Prague lately.

Other cases could be enforced by lawsuits, i.e. Serbia could consider to sue one of the few pariah countries who did recognize. This could make a precedent but there is much "could" and "would" there.

All this provided the best outcome from our point of view, but this all is a lottery like every court case. Pragmatically Serbia had nothing to lose so it did the right thing.

I hate to celebrate a victory not-yet-achieved, even mentioning it is a bad karma. This is why we should forget about all the ICJ for now, don't argue about the booty if the wild boar is not slain yet! Always praise and rather over-estimate the opponent, better to be well-prepared than being caught with pants down.

pss - I am not privy to any 'behind the scenes' information. I just read the news. I am also not saying that these particular countries will withdraw their recognition, just that there have been noises in that direction.

There are plenty of others as well, as pointed out by some of the other posters here, who also apparently read the news.

You should try it.

RE:Danilo's comment
so danilo how should the world come to agreement and govern itself ?? should it all be based on who has the money and bombs? or soft rules of engagement for the most part but with clear process and rules only when convenient?

"Thank you mr Frattini! That's all the Serbs ask for."

I don't think he mented to give you a false hope.

RKS - Is this a test? Why '5'?

Okay - Costa Rica, Macedonia, Turkey, Czech and Montenegro are all possibilities, to name but a few. There are official denials but movements behind the scenes indicating that this could happen.

Italy will respect this advisory opinion, however Italy's position on Kosovo's status has already been finalised.

Danilo - you seem to have a very literal understanding of the term 'international law'. Certainly, it is managed differently from domestic law, but it nevertheless exists and forms the cornerstone of the post-1945 international system. In this context, the ICJ - along with other International and supranational courts, such as the ICTY, ICC, ECHR and the ECJ - have tremendous significance in contemporary international politics. To say that the ruling of the UN's Court on a matter of international law is inconsequential is simply not true. If that was the case, then why did Serbia come under so much pressure not to bring the case in the first place? And why did the EU states choose to abstain in the UNGA debate on the grounds that they did not want to be seen to deny countries the right to pursue legal redress for grievances? You might feel it has no consequence, but there are many policy makers in many countries that currently support the UDI who take a very different view, and for very good reasons. Once again, there is far more at stake here than Kosovo.

@danilo and johny~~
thanks for making my point !! which is "whats happening to serbia regarding kosovo is completely illegal" based on bullying

historically it has been based on strength and the assumption that the small will comply with illegal impositions...agreed..this is where serbia is different and why the small will prevail!

Danilo i thought u were Serb lol

Strong indications of recognition withdrawls- costa rica, Poland, czech republic, and Montenegro. slight indications of recognition withdrawls- macedonia, Italy, Bulgaria. Notice moat are European union members and candidates say good bye to Kosovo being in the eu.

It always amazes me how so many here are privy to so much secret "behind the scene" information.
I guess that is why these forums are so popular anyone can say anything and not have to have any proof.
(pss, 5 March 2010 02:14)

March 4, 2010 – 6:34 am Turkish Ambassador in Belgrade Ahmet Suha Umar said today that Turkey may be reconsidering its recognition of Kosovo’s independence declaration.

Umar told the Serbian state agency Tanjug that “When we did that [recognized Kosovo], we regarded it as inevitable,” but “afterwards Turkey was reserved on the issue and did not make any detrimental moves, which the Serbian leadership respects.” [my emphasis]

Serbia expects a UN ruling on the independence declaration this year and Turkey may be, some hope in Belgrade, one of the states lined up to reverse their prior decision.

Pss,

It could just seem privy because Western mainstream media are being muzzled on the situation. Serbia will go into Eu with Kosovo which is also advantageous to the average Albanian in Kosovo, do not think for a millisecond there are no moderate Albanians who are thinking this way too. It makes sense now why the French politicians were so desperate of late.

oops. I made a typo in my last post.

ICJ advises the UN General Assembly, not the Security Council.


Do I live in a parallel world?

Maybe!

I do that even if one of those 15 prominent jurists on the ICJ is Santa Claus, it doesn't change the fact that the opinion it offers is simply advice to a toothless organ - the UN General Assembly.

There is nothing that can be done with the ICJ of justice decision, except maybe read aloud the parts that are favourable to Serbia in the Serbian parliament on Vidovdan for the next 600 years.

So, you have taken International Relations 101 and think you are a bit smart. Answer me one question then: if there is no such thing as international law, why do we have international courts. What does it decide? The fact that international law works differently to domestic law does not mean that it does not exist. Again, you have applied to narrow a meaning to the term 'law'. In Physics gravity and quantum mechanics have not be reconciled, seeming to work under different fundamental rules, however it does not mean that one is part of the discipline of Physics and the other one is not.

Anyway, it is clear that you are just trolling on behalf of the KAs (as others have pointed out, your use of language makes it clear that you are not a Serb) and so I will leave it at that.

kate,

can you name me 5 countries that have uttered the words "withdraw" in the context of Kosovo's recognition of independence?

Thanks!

@danilo~ political will does not equate to legality ..u could have the will to rob a bank to buy groceries but ur will does not make it legal..we have international laws and countries have constitutions that have to be respected otherwise we'll have "bank robbers" on every corner with all kinds of will!!. also dont fool urself into thinking k albanians r not the benefactors of eu and usa policies toward serbia..this is big fish eating medium fish and GIVING to small fish.....

It seems pointless discussing this with you, Danilo. You seem to have some idea that international law does not exist, and seem immune to arguments otherwise even though we have a number of courts to decide on legal questions. I am not sure why they exist if there is no such thing as International law. I guess the rest of us are just living in some sort of parallel world to you. Either that or you are just trolling.

RE:Danilo's comment
so danilo how should the world come to agreement and govern itself ?? should it all be based on who has the money and bombs? or soft rules of engagement for the most part but with clear process and rules only when convenient?
(benzo, 4 March 2010 17:23)

What a naive comment. The world has always been governed by those who have money and bombs. Its how it has always been, and Serbia and the Serbs were more than ok with that when they had more money and bombs and ruled over Albanians. Now that someone else has more money and bombs then Serbia and is ruling over Serbia they are against it. You can predicate about any naive notions that the small and the weak has the same voice when it comes to ruling the world but reality is what it has always been. The strong, those with money and bombs do rule the world. That's always been the case.

"Italy will respect the decision of the ICJ" but Serbia will not. If the ICJ rules in favor of Serbia, than Belgrade will consider it the word of God and scare all nations from recognizing Kosovo. If the ICJ rules in favor of Kosovo, than Belgrade will dismiss the ICJ as irrelevant and "just an opinion". Belgrade has already admitted that they will only respect the decision if it is in their favor. That is not respect. That is politics of a nation who only favors her own opinion.

"Other cases could be enforced by lawsuits"


Enforced by lawsuits HOW WHERE?

There is not a single international organization where this imaginary "lawsuit" could take place - at least not any place that could force any country to abide by it's decision.



ps. B92 editors. You censor some very strange things. It makes no sense to me what you choose to let through and what you withhold.

What makes you guys think that Italy will withdraw their recognition. Albanian PM said that the courts opinion will be respected which only means that they will say thank you for your opinion but we agree or dont agree

So did Jeremic. Does that mean that if the court says it was legal than recognition from Serbia is next?

Maybe, but Step 2A is a General Assembly vote to kick the us-uk-frog group out of the Security Council. I estimate 70% of the UN membership would vote for that.
(JohnBoy, 4 March 2010 16:33)
Your understanding of the way the UN works kind of makes the rest of your comment worthless.
There are five "permanent" members of the UNSC.
Besides 70% would vote against these countries? get real.
This issue is big to Serbia and Kosovo but countries all over the world are not sitting around anxiously awaiting the outcome.
There are some recognitions that may be reversed or some they may come because of the ICJ decision, but these will be among minor players in the global scene.
Without a clear cut opinion to one side or the other (which everyone knows will not happen) there will be no major shifts due to the opinion.
And just because you and a few of the others here do a daily forecast of the collapse of the US, "it ain't happened yet"

(Dan, 5 March 2010 10:51)
My deepest apologies, I did not realize you were getting this valuable information from Tanjug. It must be true.

"Danilo - If you are a Serb, then why would you speak about Serbs in the third person"


I actually find this an interesting question. I've thought about it, and I would certainly speak in the third person most of the time, referring to Canadians when talking about Canadian domestic policies.

I think it comes down to differing conceptions of what means "self" in different parts of the world.

A bit off topic, but...

"so danilo how should the world come to agreement and govern itself ??"

How things SHOULD be is quite irrelevant to this discussion.

The world doesn't change magically, or work a certain way just because we want it to.

the ICJ process is just a tiny step up from completely irrelevant. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change this.

"I am always fascinated by the way in which KAs come here and start insisting that there is no such thing as international law and that the ICJ case is just an advisory opinion with no real meaning. Nothing could be further from the truth."


Are you referring to me? I happen to be a Serb, thank you.

Saying that something is so, doesn't make it so.

The ICJ is an advisory body to the UNGA, which is an advisory body to the UNSC. It doesn't matter who is on the ICJ, it's opinions, or rulings are without teeth and not enforceable in any way.

This is a fact. No amount of wishful thinking changes this.

Yes, it will have some INFLUENCE, possibly halting further recognitions IF the ruling is in Serbia's favour, which it won't be 100%

No one is going to withdraw their recognition.

No one.

This is because this issue is, in fact, not important anywhere but here.

No country will withdraw their recognition because it's simply not worth the trouble to them

""whats happening to serbia regarding kosovo is completely illegal" based on bullying "

What's "happening to Serbia regarding Kosovo" is the local population exercising their political will.

They (Kosovo Albanians) could do so otherwise. They could all register to vote in Serbian elections, vote for the same party, get into power and separate Kosovo by manner of parliamentary decree.

What's "happening" to Kosovo is just some terrible thing to Serbia. There are actual people that actually live there, who's grandparents were born there, who don't want to be part of Serbia. They are indigenous population, not visitors who all have parents who live in Albania, which a previous poster suggested.

This isn't abstract. This isn't some big, foreign powers wanting to do wrong to poor, little Serbia.

We're talking about actual people who don't want to be with Serbs. You might want to question why that's the case.

Okay - Costa Rica, Macedonia, Turkey, Czech and Montenegro are all possibilities, to name but a few. There are official denials but movements behind the scenes indicating that this could happen.
(kate, 4 March 2010 21:28)
It always amazes me how so many here are privy to so much secret "behind the scene" information.
I guess that is why these forums are so popular anyone can say anything and not have to have any proof.

thanks for making my point !! which is "whats happening to serbia regarding kosovo is completely illegal" based on bullying

historically it has been based on strength and the assumption that the small will comply with illegal impositions...agreed..this is where serbia is different and why the small will prevail!
(benzo, 4 March 2010 21:38)

Benzo I don't know how old you are but there seems to be a lack of recognition about how this world of ours functions. First of all how do you think Serbia got Kosova in the first place? Here you have a group of people that came from a totally different geographical location from the Balkans and got a territory that the Romans used to occupy. Do you think somebody just invited you in and said come and take Kosova's territory as gift for coming all this way for the long trip? If you need help figuring it out, Serbia got Kosova through bullying. Yet you claim that was legal.
Second, what you call bullies, make the laws and rules in this world. There are five of them. Look at the UNSC if you don't know who they are.

Serbia is no different from nobody else. Its in the same position many have been before, Serbia included, and it will be in that position until a bigger bully which takes Serbia's side comes around and takes care of the small bully. When this bigger bully comes around Serbia will be perfectly fine with it and call it legal. While the other side will cry foul and call it illegal. Then a bigger bully will come along and will take care of the other bully. Then another bully... I hope you see how this works. It has always been the case that the strong divide their spheres of influence and the small do comply, whether you like it or not. This time is no different You get caught on the wrong side of fence and its tough luck for you. There is nothing here that we haven't seen before.

"Danilo - If you are a Serb, then why would you speak about Serbs in the third person"


Well, I'm Serbian only by ethnicity. My grandparents are from here. I was born in Canada and consider myself Canadian more than anything else.

I speak of Serbs in the 3rd person, because I'm not really connected to anything Serbian. I live in Belgrade, but am as much an outsider or insider as any foreigner who speaks the language who's living here.

I did, however, feel like outing myself as a Serb to the guy who felt I must be Albanian.

"you seem to have a very literal understanding of the term 'international law'."


As opposed to what? Some kind of 'wishful thinking, magical" one? Having a literal understanding of what means "law" is actually a good thing.

Yes. It's true that some people will be influenced by ICJ's advice.

Is that "law"? Certainly not in the sense that a lot of posters here hope it is.

"Danilo. You seem to have some idea that international law does not exist"


Yes. This is what I am trying to explain.

You do have resolutions in the UN Security council, under chapter 7 of the UN charter that allows the use of force to enforce them. I suppose you could call those "laws".

You have chapter 6 resolutions which are non-binding and don't authorize the use of force.

You have UN general assembly resolutions which are, at best, able to make recommendations to the UN Security council.

You have the ICJ which advises the security council.

Apart from, perhaps, a resolution, in the UN security council under chapter 7 of the UN charter, none of those other scenarios can in any way compel a nation or individual to act in any way, if they don't want to.

So, is that a "law", in the sense that it's understood in the national level.

If you were arrested, sent to court and all the court could say was "we recommend that you go to jail for 10 years" and you can say "thanks for your advice, but I won't do that", what means "law" then.

Perhaps you can explain to me what "international law" means to you, as I have explained it better than anyone else in this forum.

The court will decide in favor of Kosovo. But just let me remind you that to respect an advisory opinion means nothing. It is an advisory opinion that does not obligate. The court is well aware of Serbian declaration that they will NOT respect any decision that says Kosovo's independence is in accordance with international law. This is only a delay of the tough but inescapable decision Serbian must make to tell their citizens that Kosovo is lost for ever.

Of course, we will respect whatever the decision the court makes," he underscored.


Very diplomatic statemant, I must say.
I know serb camp will jump to their own conclusion on this statemant, but they have to learn to read between lines.

Nothing will change because the opinion of the court will be in favor of Kosovo. There is nothing in international law that sayes that you cannnot seccede from a country. How did Serbia became independent then ?`Or Montengro?


Where was international law when 900 000 albanians was forced to leave their homes in Kosovo because of repression from Serbia ? In that time you only wanted the land and rule albanian land. Did you know that you serbs are from caucaos ?

Italy has finished its business with recognistion of KOsovo in years ago (March 2008).

However, serbs ALWAYS fail to answer ONE QUESTION...will Serbia (since it wants from other countries to) accept the final judgment regardless the outcome????

The answer we ALL know. ONLY if it good for Serbia. This is not surpsing to anyone who knows Serbian hypocrisy.

All that remains is to see whether the court is true to the law or comes up with some half-way fudge for political purposes.
(kate, 4 March 2010 11:10)

Of course, kate, either the verdict is in our favor or our we will spread the propaganda that it is a bought verdict. Your simplistic world that we-Serbs-are-always-right-and-the-victims is never going to end, right? Well, no wonder why you will never grasp why the civilized world doesn't comply to your wishes. You simply exclude the fact that you are wrong. International Law is nothing what is completed. It is in a constant progress. 2000 years ago it was different than after WW2, and today it is different then when the UN was setup, and in 1000 years it will be again different.

I really hope that they rule on the basis of law - this case is very cut and dry and should fall firmly in Serbia's favour.
(kate, 4 March 2010 11:10)


Well it is not against the law to declare independence from a country that have killed you people for decades. And we albanians have never had peace with serbs so I don't see any reason for Kosovo to stay under serbian rule since the albanian majority in Kosovo can rule them self without Serbia.

And when it comes to the land Kosovo belong first of all to the people wich lives there and have lived there for hundred of years. If the people of Kosovo wants to Kosovo to take another direction in their future they have fully right to do it without Serbia interfering. Serbia cannot decide the fate of 2 million albanians wich Serbia dosent at all care about.



But anyway it is too late for everything. Nothing can change the fact that Kosovo is independent and recognized by the most powerful countrys of the world and the superpower of the world USA. After the courts opinion in favor of Kosovo the remaining countrys wich haven't recognized Kosovo yet will do so.

The battle of Kosovo is over and Serbia lost. Kosovo and it's people win. Period!!

Italy will respect this advisory opinion, however Italy's position on Kosovo's status has already been finalised.

"Of course, we will respect whatever the decision the court makes," he underscored.

Thank you mr Frattini! That's all the Serbs ask for. International law must be respected or we will witness more Frankenstein creations like this illegal UDI in the future.

Kosovo je Srbija!

(Demi, 4 March 2010 11:16)

You must have a crystal ball to guess that the ICJ will rule in favour of the Albanians. If you’re that dim then here it is – the Court was asked whether it was legal for Kosovo to breakaway NOT whether 900,000 Albanians are going to be forced to “leave their homes”. If they are Serbian citizens then they will not be “forced to leave their homes”, but if not, it Ta, Ta.
Please no more about your Illyrian heritage. There is no archeological evidence that substantiates these ludicrous claims – this means there are no buildings/ruins constructed 2000 years ago which prove your claims. There is plenty of Roman and Greek and in the later years Serbian, but NO Albanian. You guys arrived with the Turks.

"Thank you mr Frattini! That's all the Serbs ask for."

I don't think he mented to give you a false hope.

Yes we respect the tribunal but...we have already decided on the matter...Nothing new in this interview from our Fm as always much "fair and balance "..

It's amazing to read how little people understand the concept of "international law"

Basically, there's no such thing, as such.

"International law" is shorthand for one of three things.

1) agreements between nations.

2) Rulings of the UN security council

3) Rulings of the UN General Assembly.


None of these things are "law" in the sense of that means on the national level. Countries have courts, police, prosecutors, etc.

"Decisions" in the General Assembly are meaningless, as they are unenforceable, though some will refer to their judgments sometimes as 'law'


ICJ isn't really a court, as such. It's an advisory body to the General Assembly, which can do nothing.

This ICJ case is a whole lot of nothing. I feel sorry for Serbs who think that something can come of this. They've either been sold lies or they want to believe lies.

""whats happening to serbia regarding kosovo is completely illegal" based on bullying "

What's "happening to Serbia regarding Kosovo" is the local population exercising their political will.

They (Kosovo Albanians) could do so otherwise. They could all register to vote in Serbian elections, vote for the same party, get into power and separate Kosovo by manner of parliamentary decree.

What's "happening" to Kosovo is just some terrible thing to Serbia. There are actual people that actually live there, who's grandparents were born there, who don't want to be part of Serbia. They are indigenous population, not visitors who all have parents who live in Albania, which a previous poster suggested.

This isn't abstract. This isn't some big, foreign powers wanting to do wrong to poor, little Serbia.

We're talking about actual people who don't want to be with Serbs. You might want to question why that's the case.

Demi,
for whatever do you mean with your statement
"Where was international law when 900 000 albanians was forced to leave their homes in Kosovo because of repression from Serbia ?"

Those so called 900,000 Albanian citizens were returning home to their parents in Albania, because of NATO's bombing raids.

Has your selective memory forgotten about the "shock and awe" and statements about how Serbia's military was a formidable foe.

The whole Kosovo war was televised as a prime time televison event all over North America. This new 78 day long tv show only portrayed the Serbs as being evil.

I gather that you were watching a different tv channel then the rest of us.

I recommend that you research the statements of Canada's retired Major General Lewis Mackenzie, as he sums up the engineered war very thoroughly.

RE:Danilo's comment
so danilo how should the world come to agreement and govern itself ?? should it all be based on who has the money and bombs? or soft rules of engagement for the most part but with clear process and rules only when convenient?
(benzo, 4 March 2010 17:23)

What a naive comment. The world has always been governed by those who have money and bombs. Its how it has always been, and Serbia and the Serbs were more than ok with that when they had more money and bombs and ruled over Albanians. Now that someone else has more money and bombs then Serbia and is ruling over Serbia they are against it. You can predicate about any naive notions that the small and the weak has the same voice when it comes to ruling the world but reality is what it has always been. The strong, those with money and bombs do rule the world. That's always been the case.

"so danilo how should the world come to agreement and govern itself ??"

How things SHOULD be is quite irrelevant to this discussion.

The world doesn't change magically, or work a certain way just because we want it to.

the ICJ process is just a tiny step up from completely irrelevant. No amount of wishful thinking is going to change this.

"Did you know that you serbs are from caucaos?"
Demi

No I didn't know that but thanks for telling me! I guess what's left is for me to give you the keys to my house in Svilajnac and go back to the caucasus on my donkey. By the way do you also support that the native americans should have their land back from the Europeans? They were there first!

You albanians are getting nervous. You know that your frankenstein banana republic is comming to an end and you make up rediculous claims.

Demi

Kosovo has always been Serbian. Never ever albanian. Our churches and monasteries are proof of that. What's your proof? Made up stories about some imaginary culture that is no where to be found in history books.

Kosovo jam Serbe!

"However, serbs ALWAYS fail to answer ONE QUESTION...will Serbia (since it wants from other countries to) accept the final judgment regardless the outcome????
PRN

Will the albanians????
That's the question you should be prepared to answer since the decision will be in Serbias favour.

John: "Your simplistic world that we-Serbs-are-always-right-and-the-victims is never going to end, right?"

I am not Serbian, I am British. I am speaking about what is clearly the case in international law.

To use the argument that an 'oppressed' majority within an area of a state has the right to declare independence is ridiculous in this case.

An agreement for the province of Kosovo to become an international protectorate (but remain within the sovereign boundaries of Serbia) had been made only a few years previously (UN Res 1244).

Kosovo was being administered by the UN under UN Res 1244 when it declared independence, which is merely an attempt to take advantage of a situation and annex territory. That is illegal.

The way forward is for all parties to return to the negotiating table and agree to a longterm status solution.

Kosovo is not alright, despite what people on here say. How many of them actually live there anyway? Or have to feed kids and worry about heating, education etc?

Its people live in poverty, have mass unemployment, and its minorities live in sealed enclaves. Its govt is being investigated for corruption and other criminal activities.

Once the status issue is resolved, things can move forward. New politicians and diplomats are needed, regionally and internationally, to handle this matter. Serbia is the only party which has actually changed and evolved since 1999 - the rest are just so stuck in their ways they are incapable of change.

Highly interesting statement by Italian FM Frattini.

It proves that "hectic", active, principle and just diplomacy by Serbia and Jeremić is bringing wanted result.
Also we are winning back the friendship relation with our previous, historical and traditional alleys like Italy and on that way we are giving them the legal attributes to decide to reverse their decision.

It is about the time for the negotiations and the adequate level of autonomy and self-goverment is the best that Kosovo Albanians will get.Certainly as well the best option and only option for their economical prosperity too.

kate,

can you name me 5 countries that have uttered the words "withdraw" in the context of Kosovo's recognition of independence?

Thanks!

A: "But just let me remind you that to respect an advisory opinion means nothing. It is an advisory opinion that does not obligate."

No, but many countries will abide by the ruling because:

(a) they do not want to fall foul of international law (who knows what problems that could cause them and the 'international community' further down the line?) and

(b) those who were pressured into, or half-hearted about supporting the UDI will find this to be a great way out. Is the US and its minions going to complain that countries wish to abide by the findings of the international court? I don't think so.

All that remains is to see whether the court is true to the law or comes up with some half-way fudge for political purposes. I really hope that they rule on the basis of law - this case is very cut and dry and should fall firmly in Serbia's favour.

"Other cases could be enforced by lawsuits"


Enforced by lawsuits HOW WHERE?

There is not a single international organization where this imaginary "lawsuit" could take place - at least not any place that could force any country to abide by it's decision.



ps. B92 editors. You censor some very strange things. It makes no sense to me what you choose to let through and what you withhold.

Okay - Costa Rica, Macedonia, Turkey, Czech and Montenegro are all possibilities, to name but a few. There are official denials but movements behind the scenes indicating that this could happen.
(kate, 4 March 2010 21:28)
It always amazes me how so many here are privy to so much secret "behind the scene" information.
I guess that is why these forums are so popular anyone can say anything and not have to have any proof.

"I am always fascinated by the way in which KAs come here and start insisting that there is no such thing as international law and that the ICJ case is just an advisory opinion with no real meaning. Nothing could be further from the truth."


Are you referring to me? I happen to be a Serb, thank you.

Saying that something is so, doesn't make it so.

The ICJ is an advisory body to the UNGA, which is an advisory body to the UNSC. It doesn't matter who is on the ICJ, it's opinions, or rulings are without teeth and not enforceable in any way.

This is a fact. No amount of wishful thinking changes this.

Yes, it will have some INFLUENCE, possibly halting further recognitions IF the ruling is in Serbia's favour, which it won't be 100%

No one is going to withdraw their recognition.

No one.

This is because this issue is, in fact, not important anywhere but here.

No country will withdraw their recognition because it's simply not worth the trouble to them

I am glad to see 22 people here ( = all previous commentators) who NEVER EVER had even a minor case before the judge.

This is as I believe due the fact, most people rather pay their tickets off in full. Or never put any credit card charge in disputed status.

To the defense of Albanian and Serbian bloggers:

1) the traffic tickets there are to be paid on the spot and it is usually simpler + cheaper to negotiate with the KPS or MUP than go to the judge.

2) the coverage credit cards in East Europe do provide is very-very weak. In most cases there is no such thing as "putting a charge in dispute".

In the States the situation is completely different. You better to take any traffic ticket to the traffic court and put any credit card charge which is questionable into "disputed" status and it could later land in Small Claims Court if you fill the charges against the credit card company.

In both cases (Traffic Court or Small Claims Court) the decision of judge(s) is 100% unpredictable. Sometimes the decision can even violate the law - but it's final. It is essentially a lottery.

I believe, Serbia is correct with that dispute but what I said about courts and lottery probably does apply here. Besides, everyone involved does try to apply a pressure on the court.

Our FM Frattini is so balanced that says that we respect international law after the recognition of the independence of a state that was clearly against the respect of a UN resolution and against the international law. I really have nothing against Albanian, but we should admit that the independence of Kosovo is, under a juridically point of view, a monster. If I would be Serbian I would not like to have an "advocat" like Frattini.....

What makes you guys think that Italy will withdraw their recognition. Albanian PM said that the courts opinion will be respected which only means that they will say thank you for your opinion but we agree or dont agree

So did Jeremic. Does that mean that if the court says it was legal than recognition from Serbia is next?

(Dan, 5 March 2010 10:51)
My deepest apologies, I did not realize you were getting this valuable information from Tanjug. It must be true.

The court is well aware of Serbian declaration that they will NOT respect any decision that says Kosovo's independence is in accordance with international law.
(A, 4 March 2010 10:19)
--
Serbia will certainly respect the decision but it doesn't oblige anyone to recognise Kosovo. It will only state whether the UDI was legal or not. If it was legal then anyone who wants to recognise can but if it wasn't legal then those who have recognised will be supporting an illegal entity.

No one is ever under any obligation to recognise Kosovo regardless of the outcome. The fact that sufficient powerful countries have already made up their mind and will never recognise Kosovo is enough to ensure independence is never achieved. It's a lost cause so the sooner we all head back to the negotiating table, the better. Independence is irreversibly blocked.

Aha...

seems that the decision is already known to this gentleman

Ian, UK: "Italy will respect this advisory opinion, however Italy's position on Kosovo's status has already been finalised."

Several states have mentioned the possibility of withdrawing recognition. What makes you so sure that Italy won't?

In case you missed it, Berlusconi & Tadic have forged stronger relationships between their countries recently. It is far more important for Italy to deal with Serbia than Kosovo.

Maybe, but Step 2A is a General Assembly vote to kick the us-uk-frog group out of the Security Council. I estimate 70% of the UN membership would vote for that.
(JohnBoy, 4 March 2010 16:33)
Your understanding of the way the UN works kind of makes the rest of your comment worthless.
There are five "permanent" members of the UNSC.
Besides 70% would vote against these countries? get real.
This issue is big to Serbia and Kosovo but countries all over the world are not sitting around anxiously awaiting the outcome.
There are some recognitions that may be reversed or some they may come because of the ICJ decision, but these will be among minor players in the global scene.
Without a clear cut opinion to one side or the other (which everyone knows will not happen) there will be no major shifts due to the opinion.
And just because you and a few of the others here do a daily forecast of the collapse of the US, "it ain't happened yet"

"Danilo - If you are a Serb, then why would you speak about Serbs in the third person"


I actually find this an interesting question. I've thought about it, and I would certainly speak in the third person most of the time, referring to Canadians when talking about Canadian domestic policies.

I think it comes down to differing conceptions of what means "self" in different parts of the world.

A bit off topic, but...

Canada will respect the ICJ rulering too! And so will I suspect at least a dozen or more countries which will reduce the number of countries recognizing this wanna-be state by 35% to 45% plus assure no further recognitions.

Poverty and crime, corruption and unemployment will increase even more and less hand-outs will come into Kosovo as the whole world is watching every dollar, these days.

There is nothing for Albanians to look forward to in the future, they will be imprisoned in in Kosovo, as well their children. But hey, they can always pretend they are independent.

RKS - Is this a test? Why '5'?

Okay - Costa Rica, Macedonia, Turkey, Czech and Montenegro are all possibilities, to name but a few. There are official denials but movements behind the scenes indicating that this could happen.

thanks for making my point !! which is "whats happening to serbia regarding kosovo is completely illegal" based on bullying

historically it has been based on strength and the assumption that the small will comply with illegal impositions...agreed..this is where serbia is different and why the small will prevail!
(benzo, 4 March 2010 21:38)

Benzo I don't know how old you are but there seems to be a lack of recognition about how this world of ours functions. First of all how do you think Serbia got Kosova in the first place? Here you have a group of people that came from a totally different geographical location from the Balkans and got a territory that the Romans used to occupy. Do you think somebody just invited you in and said come and take Kosova's territory as gift for coming all this way for the long trip? If you need help figuring it out, Serbia got Kosova through bullying. Yet you claim that was legal.
Second, what you call bullies, make the laws and rules in this world. There are five of them. Look at the UNSC if you don't know who they are.

Serbia is no different from nobody else. Its in the same position many have been before, Serbia included, and it will be in that position until a bigger bully which takes Serbia's side comes around and takes care of the small bully. When this bigger bully comes around Serbia will be perfectly fine with it and call it legal. While the other side will cry foul and call it illegal. Then a bigger bully will come along and will take care of the other bully. Then another bully... I hope you see how this works. It has always been the case that the strong divide their spheres of influence and the small do comply, whether you like it or not. This time is no different You get caught on the wrong side of fence and its tough luck for you. There is nothing here that we haven't seen before.

"you seem to have a very literal understanding of the term 'international law'."


As opposed to what? Some kind of 'wishful thinking, magical" one? Having a literal understanding of what means "law" is actually a good thing.

Yes. It's true that some people will be influenced by ICJ's advice.

Is that "law"? Certainly not in the sense that a lot of posters here hope it is.

RE:Danilo's comment
so danilo how should the world come to agreement and govern itself ?? should it all be based on who has the money and bombs? or soft rules of engagement for the most part but with clear process and rules only when convenient?

"Danilo - If you are a Serb, then why would you speak about Serbs in the third person"


Well, I'm Serbian only by ethnicity. My grandparents are from here. I was born in Canada and consider myself Canadian more than anything else.

I speak of Serbs in the 3rd person, because I'm not really connected to anything Serbian. I live in Belgrade, but am as much an outsider or insider as any foreigner who speaks the language who's living here.

I did, however, feel like outing myself as a Serb to the guy who felt I must be Albanian.

@danilo~ political will does not equate to legality ..u could have the will to rob a bank to buy groceries but ur will does not make it legal..we have international laws and countries have constitutions that have to be respected otherwise we'll have "bank robbers" on every corner with all kinds of will!!. also dont fool urself into thinking k albanians r not the benefactors of eu and usa policies toward serbia..this is big fish eating medium fish and GIVING to small fish.....

No country will withdraw their recognition because it's simply not worth the trouble to them
(Danilo, 4 March 2010 21:51)
==================

Are you sure?
Some might be looking for a legitimate reason to release themselves from American orders.

"Danilo. You seem to have some idea that international law does not exist"


Yes. This is what I am trying to explain.

You do have resolutions in the UN Security council, under chapter 7 of the UN charter that allows the use of force to enforce them. I suppose you could call those "laws".

You have chapter 6 resolutions which are non-binding and don't authorize the use of force.

You have UN general assembly resolutions which are, at best, able to make recommendations to the UN Security council.

You have the ICJ which advises the security council.

Apart from, perhaps, a resolution, in the UN security council under chapter 7 of the UN charter, none of those other scenarios can in any way compel a nation or individual to act in any way, if they don't want to.

So, is that a "law", in the sense that it's understood in the national level.

If you were arrested, sent to court and all the court could say was "we recommend that you go to jail for 10 years" and you can say "thanks for your advice, but I won't do that", what means "law" then.

Perhaps you can explain to me what "international law" means to you, as I have explained it better than anyone else in this forum.

oops. I made a typo in my last post.

ICJ advises the UN General Assembly, not the Security Council.


Do I live in a parallel world?

Maybe!

I do that even if one of those 15 prominent jurists on the ICJ is Santa Claus, it doesn't change the fact that the opinion it offers is simply advice to a toothless organ - the UN General Assembly.

There is nothing that can be done with the ICJ of justice decision, except maybe read aloud the parts that are favourable to Serbia in the Serbian parliament on Vidovdan for the next 600 years.

"Italy will respect the decision of the ICJ" but Serbia will not. If the ICJ rules in favor of Serbia, than Belgrade will consider it the word of God and scare all nations from recognizing Kosovo. If the ICJ rules in favor of Kosovo, than Belgrade will dismiss the ICJ as irrelevant and "just an opinion". Belgrade has already admitted that they will only respect the decision if it is in their favor. That is not respect. That is politics of a nation who only favors her own opinion.

Danilo i thought u were Serb lol

It always amazes me how so many here are privy to so much secret "behind the scene" information.
I guess that is why these forums are so popular anyone can say anything and not have to have any proof.
(pss, 5 March 2010 02:14)

March 4, 2010 – 6:34 am Turkish Ambassador in Belgrade Ahmet Suha Umar said today that Turkey may be reconsidering its recognition of Kosovo’s independence declaration.

Umar told the Serbian state agency Tanjug that “When we did that [recognized Kosovo], we regarded it as inevitable,” but “afterwards Turkey was reserved on the issue and did not make any detrimental moves, which the Serbian leadership respects.” [my emphasis]

Serbia expects a UN ruling on the independence declaration this year and Turkey may be, some hope in Belgrade, one of the states lined up to reverse their prior decision.

Pss,

It could just seem privy because Western mainstream media are being muzzled on the situation. Serbia will go into Eu with Kosovo which is also advantageous to the average Albanian in Kosovo, do not think for a millisecond there are no moderate Albanians who are thinking this way too. It makes sense now why the French politicians were so desperate of late.

I am always fascinated by the way in which KAs come here and start insisting that there is no such thing as international law and that the ICJ case is just an advisory opinion with no real meaning. Nothing could be further from the truth.

You cannot simply ignore the considered legal opinion of the 15 most eminent international jurists in the world and then expect that the international system can just continue on its merry way as if nothing has happened. If the countries that support UDI choose to ignore an unfavourable opinion by the ICJ on this issue, then they effectively undermine the ICJ as the judicial organ of the UN. The impact of this on international peace and stability will be enormous.

Apart from the US, which has always opposed this case, and seems not to care that much about the ICJ ruling, the EU countries that support the UDI know full well that if the Court rules against the declaration of independence there will have to be new talks to try to resolve the mess that has been created by their handling of the Kosovo issue. If they don't go along with the Court's decision, then the EU's claim to be guided by, and ensure wider compliance with, international law will be fatally undermined in the view of the rest of the world. This will debase the EU's soft power currency. The KAs might not understand this, or might try to argue against it, but there are much higher principles and issues at stake here.

@danilo and johny~~
thanks for making my point !! which is "whats happening to serbia regarding kosovo is completely illegal" based on bullying

historically it has been based on strength and the assumption that the small will comply with illegal impositions...agreed..this is where serbia is different and why the small will prevail!

"...can you name me 5 countries that have uttered the words "withdraw" in the context of Kosovo's recognition of independence?..."

>>> Italy just slightly have been suggesting that option with this particular B92 news. Further for you kind information just one "reverse" will be enough to annulate altogether that illegal process of "independence".

And can you suggest when do you expect that China, Russia, Brazil,India and Indonesia, for example, will "recognize" that part of Serbian territory as an renegade "independent state"?

Ultimate question is, who is having the time on its side? And the answer is: Serbia!
Kosovo Albanians "black hole" is desperate to develop in every sense and without direct Serbia's "blessing" that is one final NO, NO, NO, NO.

pss - I am not privy to any 'behind the scenes' information. I just read the news. I am also not saying that these particular countries will withdraw their recognition, just that there have been noises in that direction.

There are plenty of others as well, as pointed out by some of the other posters here, who also apparently read the news.

You should try it.

Danilo - If you are a Serb, then why would you speak about Serbs in the third person eg:

"I feel sorry for Serbs who think that something can come of this. They've either been sold lies or they want to believe lies."

And things like "poor little Serbia". These are all third party statements and would be worded very differently if you were actually a Serb yourself.

Nobody would talk about their own country in such an outside fashion.

I suppose as a 'Serb' you also happen to believe that Greater Albania is a good idea and in the Illyrian history of Kosovo.

Strong indications of recognition withdrawls- costa rica, Poland, czech republic, and Montenegro. slight indications of recognition withdrawls- macedonia, Italy, Bulgaria. Notice moat are European union members and candidates say good bye to Kosovo being in the eu.

Respecting the decision does not mean italy will withdraw recognition when the ICJ rules against the UDI. This is just double-talk. In spite of their hysterical gibberish, the k-albos are out on limb now that will easily get cut off. They lost this case when the ICJ started taking statements. Even the vaunted united states of arrogance knows this when it begged the court not to hear the case and dropped its "sui jello" argument. If just one recognition is withdrawn, not only have they lost their dream of stealing Serbian land, they have no bargaining position other than us occupation troops. These fools who say this case means nothing don't realize that this is just step 1. Jeremic thinks that step 2 is a lawsuit against the us and all of its puppet regimes. Maybe, but Step 2A is a General Assembly vote to kick the us-uk-frog group out of the Security Council. I estimate 70% of the UN membership would vote for that.

Danilo - you seem to have a very literal understanding of the term 'international law'. Certainly, it is managed differently from domestic law, but it nevertheless exists and forms the cornerstone of the post-1945 international system. In this context, the ICJ - along with other International and supranational courts, such as the ICTY, ICC, ECHR and the ECJ - have tremendous significance in contemporary international politics. To say that the ruling of the UN's Court on a matter of international law is inconsequential is simply not true. If that was the case, then why did Serbia come under so much pressure not to bring the case in the first place? And why did the EU states choose to abstain in the UNGA debate on the grounds that they did not want to be seen to deny countries the right to pursue legal redress for grievances? You might feel it has no consequence, but there are many policy makers in many countries that currently support the UDI who take a very different view, and for very good reasons. Once again, there is far more at stake here than Kosovo.

It seems pointless discussing this with you, Danilo. You seem to have some idea that international law does not exist, and seem immune to arguments otherwise even though we have a number of courts to decide on legal questions. I am not sure why they exist if there is no such thing as International law. I guess the rest of us are just living in some sort of parallel world to you. Either that or you are just trolling.

No country will withdraw their recognition because it's simply not worth the trouble to them
(Danilo, 4 March 2010 21:51)

Probably CZ and PL would. I also can imagine Portugal, New Zealand and to a much lesser degree Hungary or Bulgaria. FYROM and CG are in very difficult position, not sure.

Let's say, CZ and PL will probably do, in particular CZ has a strong "anti-Kosovo-UDI" stance inside and some negative messages regarding Kosovo are coming from Prague lately.

Other cases could be enforced by lawsuits, i.e. Serbia could consider to sue one of the few pariah countries who did recognize. This could make a precedent but there is much "could" and "would" there.

All this provided the best outcome from our point of view, but this all is a lottery like every court case. Pragmatically Serbia had nothing to lose so it did the right thing.

I hate to celebrate a victory not-yet-achieved, even mentioning it is a bad karma. This is why we should forget about all the ICJ for now, don't argue about the booty if the wild boar is not slain yet! Always praise and rather over-estimate the opponent, better to be well-prepared than being caught with pants down.

The court is well aware of Serbian declaration that they will NOT respect any decision that says Kosovo's independence is in accordance with international law.
(A, 4 March 2010 10:19)

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By the way, this point about Serbia's position keeps coming up as well. There is a very good reason why Serbia says that it won't recognise Kosovo no matter what the Court rules. It is because the countries that support UDI, such as the US, keep saying that the result won't matter. If Serbia says that it will accept the ruling, and these countries say that they won't, then perhaps it might create an incentive for the Court to take a political position and come down in support of the UDI knowing that Belgrade is committed to accepting it. This is why Serbia's initial position that it would respect the decision actually changed.

In reality, the decision will have an impact on both sides. They both know it, even if they are both are currently pretending that it won't.

So, you have taken International Relations 101 and think you are a bit smart. Answer me one question then: if there is no such thing as international law, why do we have international courts. What does it decide? The fact that international law works differently to domestic law does not mean that it does not exist. Again, you have applied to narrow a meaning to the term 'law'. In Physics gravity and quantum mechanics have not be reconciled, seeming to work under different fundamental rules, however it does not mean that one is part of the discipline of Physics and the other one is not.

Anyway, it is clear that you are just trolling on behalf of the KAs (as others have pointed out, your use of language makes it clear that you are not a Serb) and so I will leave it at that.