What Kouchner was reacting to is something he perceived as a personal accusation.
His forced laughter was merely a hysterical reaction of a man caught off guard.
The thing that surprises me is this times and again heard drivel about “Serbian propaganda” referring to reported organ harvesting and trafficking.
Whatever the cause of this denial, the initial information about organ harvesting came from Carla del Ponte who was once cheered by anti-Serb nationalist fanatics pretty much like they cheer Kouchner now.
TV B92 which further investigated these reports and launched a series of documentaries about the “yellow house” is a broadcaster which enjoys a wide support of foreign embassies and NGOs as well as ethnic minorities including Albanians and is often perceived as anti-Serbian by Serb nationalists.
Last year TV B92 CEO Veran Matic received the Knight of the French Legion of Honor medal.
The journalist Nikčević who posed a question to Kouchner is actually a Voice of America correspondent.
So I really don’t see any reason for such imputations as “Serbian propaganda” aside from tribal xenophobic paranoid urges.
KU you and I both hope that people's organs were not harvested. That kind of thing truly does not bare thinking about really but I do believe that such allegations are not a laughing matter, as Kouchner did.
Perhaps the Serbian journalist could have phrased the question differently. We have a fair number of intelligent journalists in Serbia (believe it or not). However, it begs belief that only one asked this question (even if it was in a crass way) - but it is a question that is valid - What is Kouchners position on Karla Del Pontes allegations of organ harvesting that were taken to a yellow house in Albania? Our journalist asked about Kouchners involvement in organ harvesting.
What would Kouchner say to Dick Marty who has looked into the subject to brief European institutions.
Our journalist 'what do you say about the yellow house'? Sadly our journalist didn't seem to know details as to where the house was or to drop in the fact that tribunal investigators visited it, rather he kept repeating yellow house and organ harvesting.
Better is were you aware of these allegations, considering your previous position in Kosovo, and to what end did you attempt to investigate them?
Finally, the tabloid style question - were you in any way involved Mr Kouchner in the covering up of organ harvesting etc...
But lets be realistic about this of course Kouchner did not take part in organ harvesting - the issue is whether in the name of regional stability, placating the local population, fear of former paramilitary leaders, wanting to uphold western policy - call it what you will, that he possessed knowledge / evidence of organ harvesting but burried it.
That isn't so far fetched. As I've stated previously I have read certain secret service reports on Kosovo and the extent of complicity on the part of internationals with local leaders is quite unbelievable. Principle has very little to do with their role I can't say the situation on the ground today, but I know it was like this only a few years ago.
I am not talking about the case itself. I am talking about the presumed involvement of Kouchner in it. Yes, I believe that if the Serbian prosecution had any proof that Kouchner was involved, Tadic would know about it. So either Tadic knows but does not care, or Tadic does not know, because the prosecution does not know anything about Kouchner. This means that the journalist and (according to the journalist) the families of the victims heard that Kouchner was involved from somewhere else, or just made it up.
Why he overreacted? We did not hear an explanation from him, of why he overreacted. All we can do is guess why. I choose to look at the simplest explanation, he was being accused of something horrible. Accused, not just asked profesionally, because the question was something like "what was your role?". Other people here choose to believe that he got nervous, because he is involved. That is very difficult to believe, given the history of the man and given his relations with part of the Serbian politicians (it takes a very special relation to be able to put flowers on the grave of Djindjic I believe, but maybe I am wrong?). A certain part of the Serbian media is also choosing to give to their own people the same hard to believe explanation. I do not understand why, maybe just to sell more.
The thing that made me think a bit about his reaction, is his association between the person who accused him and the "bums and murderers". He went from talking in singular to the journalist, "you are sick", to talking in plural about "bums and murderers". That kind of association maybe tells things, given the position he had in Kosovo and the experience he had about how certain things work in Serbia and Kosovo. Maybe he was thinking about those who murdered Djindjic, he had just come from his grave. Maybe he associated those who accuse him about organ trafficking with those who murdered Djindjic. He was in a position to know what Djindjic wanted to do for Serbia and what part of Serbian society wanted him dead and how that part of Serbian society functions. But these are just maybe-s.
The Kosovo Albanian position is not important in this case, it is not related to it, it will not be affected by it. Even in the case those horrible allegations about organ trafficking (in general, not about involvement of Kouchner) are proved true somehow, the Kosovo Albanian position will not be affected, it is founded on the principle of assuring stability in the Balkans, not on organ trafficking. Personally, I truly hope those things did not happen, not because of Albanian or Serbian position, victim or assassin nationality, but because they are just horrible. I do not wish anybody that horrible fate.
I don't support any side but I'm just informing you that the public TV station of Kosovo RTK gave a false translation of this case. And this was the last time I watch news on RTK, I'm Albanian myself but in such scandals one have to be realistic, SHAME ON RTK
KU in a normally functioning democracy there would be no reason why the President would have extra knowledge of a legal case. Perhaps Serbia isn't a functioning democracy but I'm quite sure that Tadic does not familiarise himself with every detail of every particular case / allegation made.
But you did make an interesting point - what would Tadic have done had this occured before the visit to Djindjic's grave was scheduled? Hard to say really. Perhaps Kouchner would have thought twice before flying off the handle like that knowing it could have ramifications?
KU why do you think that Kouchner overeacted like that? And do you think he helped the Kosovo Albanian position by doing so?
So it is credibility of Bernard Kouchner VS. credibility of Budimir from VoA Ataman? Is that how you want to put it?
(KU, 3 March 2010 18:57)
No, please read again. Budimir from VoA got under "friendly fire". This is considered a disaster in military. Tells us a lot about how "professionally" were things organized by the French. The fact French did mistake the VoA reporter for someone else speaks volumes. Here the entourage of the FM are to blame. The French should care in advance to avoid such embarrassment.
France - like Italy - is not known to be the best organizer. I can't imagine such things would happen if the FM would be from Germany, Singapore or Japan.
On the other hand if I say that "cars made in Japan or Germany have at average better reliability record than the ones made in France or Italy" - this is a triviality every "majstor" between BP and PR will confirm.
Anyway, what can one expect from a guy that has changed so many times his mind
[link]
(The Swiss, 2 March 2010 16:34)
He didn't change his mind (center-left to right wing). He still is considered a leftist but he was hired by Sarkozy for his experience, diplomatic efforts, humanism, etc. in addition, Sarkozy's gov't it was to be considered a unity gov't, thus Kouchner became member of PM cabinet as the socialist part of the gov't.
"I must admit to having some doubts on this story, but after Kouchner's reaction I wonder..."
(bganon, 2 March 2010 22:49)
So which is the party that has the most information on this case? I would believe the Serb prosecution, since it is the one that has investigated it for the longest time and the one that put more resources into the investigation. So I would believe the Serbian prosecution is the most informed on the case. This means that Tadic too must be one of the most informed on the case. Kouchner and Tadic met just a few days ago, Kouchner put flowers on the grave of Djindjic. How can Tadic meet with somebody like Kouchner then? Either Tadic knows not so much about the case, because there is not much there, or Tadic is just another person who is hiding the so-called "truth". So the question becomes "do you people trust your own leaders more, or your interpretation of an irritated reaction by Kouchner?". See how confused Peggy sounds for example, she says "we are our own worst enemies". I am suspecting this whole noise is being made to indirectly attack Tadic. I would expect Kostunica to come out and say something tomorrow.
"Gee... I hope you do know who is "VoA" the reporter does represent, don't you? I hope you do not think, VoA is Putin's lap dog. And if VoA asks that question, your "Monsieur le Ministre" is better to be polite. Otherwise someone in the "A" out of "VoA" could mind his style."
(Ataman, 3 March 2010 12:15)
So it is credibility of Bernard Kouchner VS. credibility of Budimir from VoA Ataman? Is that how you want to put it?
"It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!" (Joe)
-- Oh Joe you're so silly. Punishing journalists because they report "cheap senseless provocations" is so...so...Russian. Why not round up all of these muckraking journalists who dare to kick arse instead of kick it? In fact, let's just censor media altogether. I always knew that you were a true Stalinist at heart hiding behind our country's flag. ;)
PS - I'm sure you know that VOA doesn't stand for Vojvodina out of Austria.
Poland remember hypocrite France in 1939. Our "ally" left us alone and don't help at the time of Hitler's invasion. Mr Kouchner is really good succesor of french FM Georges-Étienne Bonnet from 1938-39, time of Munich Conference and invasion of Poland.
does any one know the email add of Carla del ponte!!! yes you guess it right , i would like to email this to her.what the Reporter got, the same goes to miss or mrs del ponte
...but celebrating him as someone who has "given the serbs a lesson" is simply stupid.
(Jovan, 3 March 2010 14:46)
Yes, usually swearing and giving reporters / public servants hard time calling their momma and enumerating her body parts in public is bad karma. Not even close to "giving a lesson".
Strange, then, that Philip Alston, UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions has just returned from Tirana bemoaning the complete lack of cooperation from the authorities.
I agree with Ataman, ...and at the same time I am really astonished by the naivety displayed by some writers here!
first of all, there is someone from VoA asking THAT question ...interesting! and who´s being asked? Kouchner! ...not only is that a delicate question posed in front of a french foreign minister, but the best thing at all is his reaction!
instead of being cool, and sovereign, like a politician who has nothing to hide or fear, ... he became angry and loud! and THAT makes him suspicious, indeed.
well, we will see whether his collar is as white as he would like the world to believe.
...but celebrating him as someone who has "given the serbs a lesson" is simply stupid.
You just confirm that this sharade is not about justice but your vendetta against the state of Kosovo. That is why you will got even an inch of cooperation from Tirana and Pristina.
(John, 3 March 2010 11:59)
ha ha ha, all the world is laughihng with allegations of serbian side. bravo Kuschner.
(beki, 3 March 2010 09:20)
No, all the world is scratching their head: wow, "VoA" did ask THAT question. Everyone knows whom "VoA" does represent and what country is the "A" letter for (except Joe, maybe) - but no one knows, what weed Kouchner was smoking.
If nothing else I hope he did already learn: Vlora Citaku is Albanian. Or maybe it's a revelation for him...
(Ataman, 3 March 2010 03:25)
I think I was demanding to much yesterday. OK, Joe, let's start over again.
Not just Vlora Citaku is Albanian, but "VoA" radio station (that's the "offending" reporter is working for) is American.
Namely "VoA" stands for "Voice of America". We are never old enough to learn, right? If you do not like the question just call your representative and complain, why does United States employ such reporters.
It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!
(Joe, 3 March 2010 01:49)
Gee... I hope you do know who is "VoA" the reporter does represent, don't you? I hope you do not think, VoA is Putin's lap dog. And if VoA asks that question, your "Monsieur le Ministre" is better to be polite. Otherwise someone in the "A" out of "VoA" could mind his style.
In regard of that, "Monsieur le Ministre" is either a prime time idiot or was caught with pants down.
on one hand there are people who are sure that organ harvesting happened, on the other there are people who are sure it didn't happen. the reality is that not a single person who made a comment of this kind on this site knows, so that makes them all look a bit dumb in advance.
on the other hand people got used to using attrocities for propaganda purposes, so it's hardly surprising. denying crimes of your side and exaggerating the crimes of the other side is common even among the people who are sensible enough not to paint an entire ethnic group as war criminals. what a nice game to play.
as for couchner, it just goes to show what happens to western diplomats when they get confronted by tough questions. which hardly ever happens in their home countries. elected officials are treated with way too much respect which makes them look better than they really are. i remember watching the same person on 2 different tv shows. in one he looked like a complete moron. in the other he looked cool. you can imagine which journalists did the better job.
Bernard Kouchner should have stated, that he heard about these allegations and such crime should be condemmed, perpetrators of such heinous acts do not belong in humanity, instead he went into an ego defensive based rebuttal which would alert any criminal psychologist. Bernard you should have learnt from your Neocon mate's mistake, that sort of denial response style don't work to well.
This would be the GREATEST achievement in fight for Kosovo. Many "rock solid" stances would change and the word "irreversible" would just disappear from "the scene".., overnight!
(ZMAJ, 3 March 2010 00:47)
You just confirm that this sharade is not about justice but your vendetta against the state of Kosovo. That is why you will got even an inch of cooperation from Tirana and Pristina.
Bravo Kouchner, at least you are saying loud how insane those allegations are. It's not about some allegations, it's about a propaganda. This propaganda is trying to mix the murders and their victims. Far away from the values. This is the reason you Mr Koushner have explode. There is a certain point any provocation can be tolerated. In my opinion they who are arising such pervers claims, like the yellow house, are losing more than with their failed and antihuman wars. It will prove not now but certainly in the close future.
"Kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in remote part of albania without even electricity and water"(Lili, 2 March 2010 19:OO)
And IF "Kouchner is a doctor" as you say He would know that any bathroom or room is enough, don't speak about field improvisations at all.
Nicic is a VOA reporter? If America's propoganda aperatus is asking questions like that it means Team Albania has lost its masters favor. This is a subtle hint for them to get back to the negotiating table. I wonder if they will get the hint?
This is a smear campaign perpetrated by those at the helm in Serbia, the same people who today, if there was any justice, would be behind bars.
After Serbia UNILATERALLY revoked Kosovo's autonomy, an autonomy that saw Kosovo as a constituent federal unit of Yugoslavia, all of the security posts were replaced by Serbs. The police and paramilitary in Kosovo was Serb and more numerous at that, disproportionate to the rest of Yugoslavia. These same people committed atrocious crimes in Kosovo, pillaging entire villages and forcing Albanians of Pristina on trains headed for the Macedonia border. They took part in executions, looted houses, and raped women, children, and men and boys. The transportation of Albanian victims to the middle of Belgrade was not carried out by one single individual. Those who dismiss these obvious details have no common sense and are delusional. Thus I am sure these same people would like to divert any attention from their own crimes - these are the same Kosovo Serbs who do not wish to return to Kosovo. They know that either the law or those relatives of their victims await them.
THIS WAS TYPICAL REACTION OF THE PERSON- INVOLVED!!
(ZMAJ, 3 March 2010 00:47)
If I am Kouchner I would just say that "While working for UN in Pristina I did not see any irregularities of this kind. Otherwise I am not an investigator, I am the head of French FM.. and let the investigators who are working on the case uncover the truth."
I am surprised that a V.I.P. like Kouchner goes to a hot spot like Gracanica and is unprepared to such a big degree. The job of journalists is to ask any question they want, if it is about Elvis on the Moon, than let it be Elvis on the Moon.
The job of diplomats is to represent their country at their best and let not forget: Kouchner is the head of French diplomacy.
I see conflicts like this being normal. But after such incident I am not sure Kouchner does represent French interests properly: his diplomatic skills seem to be poor and his staff was caught with pants down.
--------
Ah, once again, our expert and all-knowing blogger. Sixty-some million French and Joe knows them all pretty well.
(Roger7, 3 March 2010 01:39)
I don't think Joe is very familiar with the situation on Balkans; seems that simple "who-is-who" trivia is a challenge. What I am missing is the willingness to at least learn that. If nothing else I hope he did already learn: Vlora Citaku is Albanian. Or maybe it's a revelation for him....
And who is eager to represent Hungarian(?) or what-not interests on B92, please consider not to be not stingy and pay that little goddamn fee to your beloved Magyarország for re-establishing the citizenship and re-newing the passport. It's easy + cheap. Boosting that you don't give a rat's behind to ANY EU country on the same B92 few days earlier makes people later smile. At least, some consistency does not hurt.
"Actually Peggy I think you are wrong on this. The very fact that this is reported by B92, Blic and all the media in Serbia would ensure that the question is asked again by Serbian journalists."
=====================
If you have had any doubt about lesser “men” being part of ruling the west then Bernard Kouchner removes that uncertainty . However, since he has been paid by the Albanians in the past why would you expect this snail sniffing buffoon to give you a proper answer.
Any country where the military elite are mercenaries says a lot for that state.
(Steve JP, 3 March 2010 00:10)
Sounds more like you are having to dig too deep to keep the story alive.
Electricity could have been imported, water could have been carried in, or just maybe it is a tale that many want to keep alive because it makes the Albanians look worse than the Serbians during the war, you think?
It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!
"Kouchner was asked to comment on the case, and claims of the families of the kidnapped and murdered Serbs, who accused him of participating in the human organ trafficking."
Well, how would anybody among us react if anybody would claim/ask that you have been part of human organ trafficking case? This Serbian reporter accused the French Minister a got a proper answer which everybody would do, maybe even more.
No proof, no case, no nothing, just the accusation of Serbs who desperately need something to divert from the atrocities committed in Serbian name. Remeber yesterday, Karadzic's holy war of genocide. I think that shows perfectly why radical Serbs really want this fairy tale to be true. But fairy tales are written in books. Trials need proofs. That is why Carla never even mentioned it. It is good to know that this farce will not be supported by the Albanian side. 2002 was a clear examination with no proofs found. End of the (fairy tale) story.
In lack of evidence, police is using "shake" methods like provocations, insults etc. By coincidence and/or professional reasons this reporter have done the same exactly like "by manual"..
There's book you never have it "out of the room" when you study criminology and you're limited in time you can "spend with it". In Serbia it's called "Uputstva o Opste Operativnom Radu". Police's GREAT TABOO!! You have it in ALL Police Academies around the world in it's version and it's not recommended to talk about "manual" existence, at all.
I do not know if this reporter was reading such a book but I can see that Kouchner didn't- because...,
THIS WAS TYPICAL REACTION OF THE PERSON- INVOLVED!!
Anyway, I told that many times, Serbian Government should offer should offer a HUGE award and safe refuge (literary) to anyone with information- "penetrating" enough..
This would be the GREATEST achievement in fight for Kosovo. Many "rock solid" stances would change and the word "irreversible" would just disappear from "the scene".., overnight!
"Kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in remote part of albania without even electricity and water"(Lili, 2 March 2010 19:OO)
The place for clandestine, illegal, immoral, organ transplant can be a remote part of Albania which has few people to see and hear things. A (yellow) house without electricity means nothing. Either electricity was supplied there at one time when all this evil was happening or there was no electricity from outside power lines, but electricity could have been supplied by battery powered portable generators. Hospitals use such generators during times of power blackouts. Also, if the house has no water; it may have had water flowing into its pipes when this was happening. If not, water could have been delivered by vehicles. As a point to consider: there are people drink who bottled water and have a huge water bottle in their house which is upside down and connected to a special faucet box. Such people often have extra huge water bottles to use after one water bottle gets used up. My aunt, in the 1960's in the USA, had such a water bottle system in her house. Also, with Kouchner being a doctor, that makes him able to have a certain amount of knowledge on how human organ transplants are done.
Nicely put KU... I don't know what the Swiss was trying to achieve by posting the Wikipedia link, but I guess he missed the humanitarian work of this man.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
(Ment, 2 March 2010 18:47)
What I was trying to achieve, well nothing more than the truth about a very controversial person all along his "carrier".
May I just remember you that the french operation in Ruanda started "thanks to him" and against the advise of people on the ground, which leaded at the end of an increase of the massacre of local population.
Why do you think that Sarkozy himself felt going there a week ago to state that they "under estimated" the situation on the ground; at the end it was based on the advise of kouchner they armed the hutus and gave them an indirect signal that the massacre can persue!! At the same time they completely failed to stop the killings and failed to arrest the famous "genocide voice of the hills".
Why to you think that Ruanda asked about 1 month ago for France to appologize for their "wrong" involment! How many people died in Ruanda??
Kouchner was expelled from nearly every organization or political party he was involved in and even today he is being "corrected" by the prime minister.
kouchner is a disgusting person who is always quick in spitting on other people but will never look back at his bloody past.
The fact that he was a medecin sans frontieres doesn't give him the right to be so arrogant and selfish, but again his all life is based on this, what else to expect!!
It is a real shame for France to be so badly represented.
I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty.
(Ataman, 2 March 2010 19:15)
I fully agree. His rwaction is very suspicious, like he is nervous and has something to hide. But dont worry, those skeletons in Bernard's closet will out some day.
What is even worse is the reaction from the Albanian fascists on this site. Very regretable indeed.
His reaction was way out of proportion to the question asked. I must admit to being a little shocked.
Its a completely normal, expected question that a journalist would ask following such allegations / investigations, not simply from domestic sources.
Actually Peggy I think you are wrong on this. The very fact that this is reported by B92, Blic and all the media in Serbia would ensure that the question is asked again by Serbian journalists. On the one hand the journalist instinct tells us that such a reaction means there is something there and on the other to insult the journalist profession like that for reporting on an active issue, ensures that journalists organisations and supporters of a free press would also have an interest.
I must admit to having some doubts on this story, but after Kouchner's reaction I wonder...
I'd say Kouchner is guilty otherwise he wouldn't be acting this way. Organ trafficking is something that is known to have happened in Albania. In 1998, Albania's Attorney General Arben Rakipi told the media that organized crime syndicates operating in Albania were kidnapping Albanian orphans and special needs children and selling their organs on the black market. If they can disect and traffic organs harvested from Albanian orphans, there is no reason I can see why they couldn't harvest and traffic in organs harvested from the KLA's Serbian prisoners. Why would Kouchner be so determined to convince people that this never happened unless he really was involved somehow? The Albanians themselves have said that a black market organ trade existed in their country, how can anybody be so sure that these missing Serbian prisoners didn't meet that fate?
Sad for France to have such a ministry of foreign affairs and clown Sarkozy for a president. The reporter should sue Kouchner.
(Bez_Cenzure, 2 March 2010 16:32)
===================
Sadly some of our reporters will still suck up to him and be very, very careful about what their future questions will be.
Tadic will continue to bow to him like nothing was said.
We are our own worst enemies.
Well once when we allowed that Kouchner in our country in the first place, we don't deserve better.
It took him short two days to loose the false facade of friendship toward Serbia and additionally he managed to dare to claim that massacre against Serbs and non Albanians in "Yellow House" never happened though investigation about it, from the side of European Council, is just about to begin.
Though politics is a dirty business I certainly hope that our Government will not be inviting in "friendly" visits the ones who masterminded campaign of illegal bombings of our country. If we keep on doing so we will be receiving the respect as it was shown in this "spontaneous" case by the French FM.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
(Ment, 2 March 2010 18:47)
Yes, that's the point. He was heading the UN office during the time we suspect the organ trafficking cases did happen. The reaction today was either clearly inadequate or the question was a "bull's eye".
The journalist is not a clown. He was doing the job journalist supposed to do. It's why the journalists are not always welcome - they tend to ask uncomfortable questions.
Otherwise it is funny to read the recent comments of very same people who praised so much Carla del Ponte. At the moment she wrote what he wrote - she became the wicked witch overnight.
I just wonder why BBC would report about organ harvesting if is rubbish http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8531289.stm
The most interested part was when he asked journalist if he thinks that him and Rada Trajkovic were stealing corpses and taking organs. As far as I remember journalist did not mentioned Rada Trajkovic at all.
I just wonder how he remembered suddenly what is "yellow house" all about. At first he pretended that he did not know anything.
The Albanians commentators on this website automatically presume that organ harvesting never happened. How do you guys knows? Is that because you think that Albanians are not capable of doing such a horrible things?
What is 'sick and insane' was kouchner's nato propaganda. These crimes did take place but maybe it will expose the "democratic west" involvement or knowledge. This is why they are so afraid like mr kouchner who was and still is a vehement anti-Serb! But it's ok kouchner we do not like you too!
"I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty." (Ataman)
-- Exactly my point. It's one thing for the Emperor to get a little jostled when after a day of having his hind quarters repeatedly kissed by fervent supplicants, some insignificant Balkan Borat reminds him he has no clothes. But to carry on like an angry B92 blogger whose normative opinions are challenged with empirical data? Most suspicious.
I think the jornalists of so called KIM radio which it self is ilegal should be trained better when asking questions. Just remember mr kuchner went there to encourage the dialogue between the comunities not to investigate the crimes ( especialy the yellow house non exsist crims) I really admire this friend of peace loving people for his job he has done in1999-2001. So Kosova I Metohia radio which I presume it means, train your jornalists.
I'm surprised he didn't throw out a "yo momma" insult to the reporter too.
(Mike, 2 March 2010 18:12)
We should not forget, he was at that time UN representative in Kosovo. Obviously he took that question as a personal attack. Given his vast experience: very undiplomatic and very unprofessional.
I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty.
kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in a remoted part of albania without even electricity and water!
What NORMAL person would be against finding the truth- unless he's afraid- and it shows! He KNOWS all about the "Yellow House" (as do his EU masters) and is simply playing the defensive "game", belittling any mention of it. He will go down in history as an irrelevant - and I hope that Kouchner will be brought to the Hague (or better yet, to some more impartial court of justice) to finally answer for his crimes against the Serbs and mankind. Why would the Serbs even meet with him in Belgrade, knowing his hatred of the Serbs? Oh, I forgot who's leading the government...
...Kouncher was asked to comment on the case, and claims of the families of the kidnapped and murdered Serbs, who accused him of participating in the human organ trafficking.
===================
Nicely put KU... I don't know what the Swiss was trying to achieve by posting the Wikipedia link, but I guess he missed the humanitarian work of this man.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
In showing callous, blatant disregard for the facts of the matter, and in publicly ridiculing a reputable and well-known journalist in the most crude, un-European fashion, Mr. Kouchner has demonstrated his gross immaturity and inadequacy as a diplomat representing France, a great and important member of the international community. Indeed, he has become a liability to France's international prestige and reputation in the most spectacularly embarrassing, cringe-inducing fashion. I firmly believe that public apology on part of Mr. Kouchner would be in order here.
Allow me to remind Mr. Kouchner that BOTH UN and EU have appointed independent commissions to probe the serious allegations of organ harvesting and trafficking committed by Albanians during the NATO bombing of Serbia and beyond. It is quite clear that "Yellow House" internment camp for the Serbs in Albania is not a figment of Serbian collective imagination or paranoia.
Clearly, the World's and the European top officials feel that there is ABUNDANT body of evidence to support Serbian charges of horrendous and truly unspeakable crimes committed against its citizens, and that such allegations hold sufficient merit to be looked into. Whether these allegations are true remains to be seen, but one thing is certain: hundreds of Serbs disappeared from Kosovo during the bombing and were last seen alive around the Kukes, Albania, region in 1999. This is where their trail goes cold.
It is truly unconscionable that one of the founding fathers of the Doctors Without Borders can render himself so totally impervious and downright blind to such brutal butchering (literally) of the fellow human beings. If these allegations are true - and they have not been credibly refuted by anyone thus far - we can surely speak of one of the most monstrous crime in the history of the human race. Surely, in terms of sheer barbarity and sadistic horror, these alleged crimes have no known point of reference.
Serbia enjoys a full and unqualified support of European Community and International Law Enforcement Agencies in insisting that Albania and de-facto rulers of Kosovo come clean on this serious matter. I call upon France to vigorously and without hesitation do the same.
"Come on man, some provocations are just too much, too absurd, too lunatic I would add, to play it cool."
(KU)
-- Oh come on. Professional decorum doesn't cost anything, particularly for a distinguished European like him. And for someone who worked/founded Doctors Without Borders, one would think someone like Kouchner would be a little more above political partisanship, right? Plus, the article mentions he was asked this by someone who worked for VOA! Not some tabloid rag like Kurir or (Serbian) Pravda. He could have certainly handled it far better and far more professionally. Getting confrontational like that surely doesn't help quash any rumors. Especially when it's coming from someone with a far more dubious past than his medical credentials would like to prove. I'm surprised he didn't throw out a "yo momma" insult to the reporter too.
Why was he allowed in Gracanica-anyone that supported albanian aggression should be banned from religios sites.
And -yes -we all know that thanks to NATO albanians were selling organs of Serb population and that he would defend shamefull actions-but please keep him away..
Jeez, couldn't he have just said "no comment"??? It seems that the international community is actually taking these allegations seriously, so what was this guy thinking?
(Nenad, 2 March 2010 16:40)
What Int. community are you referring to? Private parties paid by Belgrade?
Question to one of the founders of Medecins sans Frontieres (Doctors without Borders), Nobel prize organization:
"What is your role in the yellow house case?".
Meaning "how much were you paid for removing and selling organs of people?"
I repeat it, in case it did not sink in. A journalist asked the founder of Doctors without Borders, a Nobel Prize organization, which has cured the victims of many wars (in Serbia too) and people in third world countries for almost 40 years; the journalist asked the founder of this organization what was his role in removing and selling organs of people.
Now Mike, you say he should just have said "No comment"? Play it cool? Come on man, some provocations are just too much, too absurd, too lunatic I would add, to play it cool.
Mr. Kouchner was obviously irritated when he replied to the journalist's question in that manner.
Mr. Kouchner has an awful lot to answer for regarding his behaviour as first UN representative in KiM after the NATO invasion.
His retort to the journalist shows he's very fearful of the train of exposures which is coming down the line; these exposures of his abysmal conduct in KiM during his term as SRSG could well end his political career to say the least and may even land him in the Hague.
"Kouncher, who was UN administrator in Kosovo from 1999 until 2001" - this says it all. Not only should the "Yellow House" investigations continue with even more zealousness, but the FM should be also investigated to see if he was in any way implicated, or if he simply looked the other way, as did the NATO troops during the 2004 pogrom of Kosovo Serbs, and the destruction of ancient monasteries, by the Albanians.
When Ničić posed his question, Kouchner reportedly "laughed", and said: "You are sick. You are a lunatic, don't be saying nonsense like that".
Kounchner then went on to say that he "cannot believe that someone was asking such a nonsensical question".
"What's the yellow house? Why yellow? Sir, you should see your doctor. People who talk about things like that are bums and murderers," the radio quoted the top French diplomat as saying.
I think this reprterr should get the medal for asking a stupid question? why, we should award only smart journalist, we should award the dumb ones too.
Interesting how this apparent "diplomat" became very undiplomatic when presented with this question. He could have easily dismissed it like a professional, but it says a lot about someone when under unexpected pressure he feels the need to shoot the messenger and sound like Hugo Chavez. But since this is the guy who bailed out Ceku last year, I'm not surprised he trips over himself now and again in trying to cover up anything that would make his Albanian friends look anything less than completely "European".
When Ničić posed his question, Kouchner reportedly "laughed", and said: "You are sick. You are a lunatic, don't be saying nonsense like that".
Kounchner then went on to say that he "cannot believe that someone was asking such a nonsensical question".
"What's the yellow house? Why yellow? Sir, you should see your doctor. People who talk about things like that are bums and murderers," the radio quoted the top French diplomat as saying.
Thank you Mr. Kuchner.
I must say that you are lucky Mr. Kuchner that very occasionally are in touch with lunticism, because you very rarely meet Serbian officials. We are dealing with lunatic comments on daily basis...like "Kosovo is heart of Serbia", "Kosovo is soul of Serbia", "Kosovo was ALWAYS Serbian" etc...
We, Albanians too cannot believe that someone asks or makes such a nonsensical comments...We too call such individuals bums, murderers and hypocrites,...BUT they still resume that non-sense.
As a doctor, you Mr. Kuchner COULD do us a favour if you could tell us how to deal with these types of sick people that we encounter hourly basis.
Jeez, couldn't he have just said "no comment"??? It seems that the international community is actually taking these allegations seriously, so what was this guy thinking?
Indeed there were a lot of lunatics during this below french operation, the first one and far most responsible.... kouchner.
Sarkozy was a few days ago in Kigali admitting that France has....let's say... under estimated the situation on the ground...., of course no excuses... and the man on the ground was... kouchner.
"Kouncher, who was UN administrator in Kosovo from 1999 until 2001" - this says it all. Not only should the "Yellow House" investigations continue with even more zealousness, but the FM should be also investigated to see if he was in any way implicated, or if he simply looked the other way, as did the NATO troops during the 2004 pogrom of Kosovo Serbs, and the destruction of ancient monasteries, by the Albanians.
I'm surprised he didn't throw out a "yo momma" insult to the reporter too.
(Mike, 2 March 2010 18:12)
We should not forget, he was at that time UN representative in Kosovo. Obviously he took that question as a personal attack. Given his vast experience: very undiplomatic and very unprofessional.
I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty.
I'd say Kouchner is guilty otherwise he wouldn't be acting this way. Organ trafficking is something that is known to have happened in Albania. In 1998, Albania's Attorney General Arben Rakipi told the media that organized crime syndicates operating in Albania were kidnapping Albanian orphans and special needs children and selling their organs on the black market. If they can disect and traffic organs harvested from Albanian orphans, there is no reason I can see why they couldn't harvest and traffic in organs harvested from the KLA's Serbian prisoners. Why would Kouchner be so determined to convince people that this never happened unless he really was involved somehow? The Albanians themselves have said that a black market organ trade existed in their country, how can anybody be so sure that these missing Serbian prisoners didn't meet that fate?
Interesting how this apparent "diplomat" became very undiplomatic when presented with this question. He could have easily dismissed it like a professional, but it says a lot about someone when under unexpected pressure he feels the need to shoot the messenger and sound like Hugo Chavez. But since this is the guy who bailed out Ceku last year, I'm not surprised he trips over himself now and again in trying to cover up anything that would make his Albanian friends look anything less than completely "European".
When Ničić posed his question, Kouchner reportedly "laughed", and said: "You are sick. You are a lunatic, don't be saying nonsense like that".
Kounchner then went on to say that he "cannot believe that someone was asking such a nonsensical question".
"What's the yellow house? Why yellow? Sir, you should see your doctor. People who talk about things like that are bums and murderers," the radio quoted the top French diplomat as saying.
Thank you Mr. Kuchner.
I must say that you are lucky Mr. Kuchner that very occasionally are in touch with lunticism, because you very rarely meet Serbian officials. We are dealing with lunatic comments on daily basis...like "Kosovo is heart of Serbia", "Kosovo is soul of Serbia", "Kosovo was ALWAYS Serbian" etc...
We, Albanians too cannot believe that someone asks or makes such a nonsensical comments...We too call such individuals bums, murderers and hypocrites,...BUT they still resume that non-sense.
As a doctor, you Mr. Kuchner COULD do us a favour if you could tell us how to deal with these types of sick people that we encounter hourly basis.
Sad for France to have such a ministry of foreign affairs and clown Sarkozy for a president. The reporter should sue Kouchner.
(Bez_Cenzure, 2 March 2010 16:32)
===================
Sadly some of our reporters will still suck up to him and be very, very careful about what their future questions will be.
Tadic will continue to bow to him like nothing was said.
We are our own worst enemies.
What is 'sick and insane' was kouchner's nato propaganda. These crimes did take place but maybe it will expose the "democratic west" involvement or knowledge. This is why they are so afraid like mr kouchner who was and still is a vehement anti-Serb! But it's ok kouchner we do not like you too!
Jeez, couldn't he have just said "no comment"??? It seems that the international community is actually taking these allegations seriously, so what was this guy thinking?
I just wonder why BBC would report about organ harvesting if is rubbish http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8531289.stm
The most interested part was when he asked journalist if he thinks that him and Rada Trajkovic were stealing corpses and taking organs. As far as I remember journalist did not mentioned Rada Trajkovic at all.
I just wonder how he remembered suddenly what is "yellow house" all about. At first he pretended that he did not know anything.
The Albanians commentators on this website automatically presume that organ harvesting never happened. How do you guys knows? Is that because you think that Albanians are not capable of doing such a horrible things?
Mr. Kouchner was obviously irritated when he replied to the journalist's question in that manner.
Mr. Kouchner has an awful lot to answer for regarding his behaviour as first UN representative in KiM after the NATO invasion.
His retort to the journalist shows he's very fearful of the train of exposures which is coming down the line; these exposures of his abysmal conduct in KiM during his term as SRSG could well end his political career to say the least and may even land him in the Hague.
When Ničić posed his question, Kouchner reportedly "laughed", and said: "You are sick. You are a lunatic, don't be saying nonsense like that".
Kounchner then went on to say that he "cannot believe that someone was asking such a nonsensical question".
"What's the yellow house? Why yellow? Sir, you should see your doctor. People who talk about things like that are bums and murderers," the radio quoted the top French diplomat as saying.
I think this reprterr should get the medal for asking a stupid question? why, we should award only smart journalist, we should award the dumb ones too.
What NORMAL person would be against finding the truth- unless he's afraid- and it shows! He KNOWS all about the "Yellow House" (as do his EU masters) and is simply playing the defensive "game", belittling any mention of it. He will go down in history as an irrelevant - and I hope that Kouchner will be brought to the Hague (or better yet, to some more impartial court of justice) to finally answer for his crimes against the Serbs and mankind. Why would the Serbs even meet with him in Belgrade, knowing his hatred of the Serbs? Oh, I forgot who's leading the government...
"I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty." (Ataman)
-- Exactly my point. It's one thing for the Emperor to get a little jostled when after a day of having his hind quarters repeatedly kissed by fervent supplicants, some insignificant Balkan Borat reminds him he has no clothes. But to carry on like an angry B92 blogger whose normative opinions are challenged with empirical data? Most suspicious.
Why was he allowed in Gracanica-anyone that supported albanian aggression should be banned from religios sites.
And -yes -we all know that thanks to NATO albanians were selling organs of Serb population and that he would defend shamefull actions-but please keep him away..
Well once when we allowed that Kouchner in our country in the first place, we don't deserve better.
It took him short two days to loose the false facade of friendship toward Serbia and additionally he managed to dare to claim that massacre against Serbs and non Albanians in "Yellow House" never happened though investigation about it, from the side of European Council, is just about to begin.
Though politics is a dirty business I certainly hope that our Government will not be inviting in "friendly" visits the ones who masterminded campaign of illegal bombings of our country. If we keep on doing so we will be receiving the respect as it was shown in this "spontaneous" case by the French FM.
Nicely put KU... I don't know what the Swiss was trying to achieve by posting the Wikipedia link, but I guess he missed the humanitarian work of this man.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
(Ment, 2 March 2010 18:47)
What I was trying to achieve, well nothing more than the truth about a very controversial person all along his "carrier".
May I just remember you that the french operation in Ruanda started "thanks to him" and against the advise of people on the ground, which leaded at the end of an increase of the massacre of local population.
Why do you think that Sarkozy himself felt going there a week ago to state that they "under estimated" the situation on the ground; at the end it was based on the advise of kouchner they armed the hutus and gave them an indirect signal that the massacre can persue!! At the same time they completely failed to stop the killings and failed to arrest the famous "genocide voice of the hills".
Why to you think that Ruanda asked about 1 month ago for France to appologize for their "wrong" involment! How many people died in Ruanda??
Kouchner was expelled from nearly every organization or political party he was involved in and even today he is being "corrected" by the prime minister.
kouchner is a disgusting person who is always quick in spitting on other people but will never look back at his bloody past.
The fact that he was a medecin sans frontieres doesn't give him the right to be so arrogant and selfish, but again his all life is based on this, what else to expect!!
It is a real shame for France to be so badly represented.
kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in a remoted part of albania without even electricity and water!
Question to one of the founders of Medecins sans Frontieres (Doctors without Borders), Nobel prize organization:
"What is your role in the yellow house case?".
Meaning "how much were you paid for removing and selling organs of people?"
I repeat it, in case it did not sink in. A journalist asked the founder of Doctors without Borders, a Nobel Prize organization, which has cured the victims of many wars (in Serbia too) and people in third world countries for almost 40 years; the journalist asked the founder of this organization what was his role in removing and selling organs of people.
Now Mike, you say he should just have said "No comment"? Play it cool? Come on man, some provocations are just too much, too absurd, too lunatic I would add, to play it cool.
Indeed there were a lot of lunatics during this below french operation, the first one and far most responsible.... kouchner.
Sarkozy was a few days ago in Kigali admitting that France has....let's say... under estimated the situation on the ground...., of course no excuses... and the man on the ground was... kouchner.
In showing callous, blatant disregard for the facts of the matter, and in publicly ridiculing a reputable and well-known journalist in the most crude, un-European fashion, Mr. Kouchner has demonstrated his gross immaturity and inadequacy as a diplomat representing France, a great and important member of the international community. Indeed, he has become a liability to France's international prestige and reputation in the most spectacularly embarrassing, cringe-inducing fashion. I firmly believe that public apology on part of Mr. Kouchner would be in order here.
Allow me to remind Mr. Kouchner that BOTH UN and EU have appointed independent commissions to probe the serious allegations of organ harvesting and trafficking committed by Albanians during the NATO bombing of Serbia and beyond. It is quite clear that "Yellow House" internment camp for the Serbs in Albania is not a figment of Serbian collective imagination or paranoia.
Clearly, the World's and the European top officials feel that there is ABUNDANT body of evidence to support Serbian charges of horrendous and truly unspeakable crimes committed against its citizens, and that such allegations hold sufficient merit to be looked into. Whether these allegations are true remains to be seen, but one thing is certain: hundreds of Serbs disappeared from Kosovo during the bombing and were last seen alive around the Kukes, Albania, region in 1999. This is where their trail goes cold.
It is truly unconscionable that one of the founding fathers of the Doctors Without Borders can render himself so totally impervious and downright blind to such brutal butchering (literally) of the fellow human beings. If these allegations are true - and they have not been credibly refuted by anyone thus far - we can surely speak of one of the most monstrous crime in the history of the human race. Surely, in terms of sheer barbarity and sadistic horror, these alleged crimes have no known point of reference.
Serbia enjoys a full and unqualified support of European Community and International Law Enforcement Agencies in insisting that Albania and de-facto rulers of Kosovo come clean on this serious matter. I call upon France to vigorously and without hesitation do the same.
"Kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in remote part of albania without even electricity and water"(Lili, 2 March 2010 19:OO)
The place for clandestine, illegal, immoral, organ transplant can be a remote part of Albania which has few people to see and hear things. A (yellow) house without electricity means nothing. Either electricity was supplied there at one time when all this evil was happening or there was no electricity from outside power lines, but electricity could have been supplied by battery powered portable generators. Hospitals use such generators during times of power blackouts. Also, if the house has no water; it may have had water flowing into its pipes when this was happening. If not, water could have been delivered by vehicles. As a point to consider: there are people drink who bottled water and have a huge water bottle in their house which is upside down and connected to a special faucet box. Such people often have extra huge water bottles to use after one water bottle gets used up. My aunt, in the 1960's in the USA, had such a water bottle system in her house. Also, with Kouchner being a doctor, that makes him able to have a certain amount of knowledge on how human organ transplants are done.
I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty.
(Ataman, 2 March 2010 19:15)
I fully agree. His rwaction is very suspicious, like he is nervous and has something to hide. But dont worry, those skeletons in Bernard's closet will out some day.
What is even worse is the reaction from the Albanian fascists on this site. Very regretable indeed.
...Kouncher was asked to comment on the case, and claims of the families of the kidnapped and murdered Serbs, who accused him of participating in the human organ trafficking.
===================
Nicely put KU... I don't know what the Swiss was trying to achieve by posting the Wikipedia link, but I guess he missed the humanitarian work of this man.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
(Ment, 2 March 2010 18:47)
Yes, that's the point. He was heading the UN office during the time we suspect the organ trafficking cases did happen. The reaction today was either clearly inadequate or the question was a "bull's eye".
The journalist is not a clown. He was doing the job journalist supposed to do. It's why the journalists are not always welcome - they tend to ask uncomfortable questions.
Otherwise it is funny to read the recent comments of very same people who praised so much Carla del Ponte. At the moment she wrote what he wrote - she became the wicked witch overnight.
In lack of evidence, police is using "shake" methods like provocations, insults etc. By coincidence and/or professional reasons this reporter have done the same exactly like "by manual"..
There's book you never have it "out of the room" when you study criminology and you're limited in time you can "spend with it". In Serbia it's called "Uputstva o Opste Operativnom Radu". Police's GREAT TABOO!! You have it in ALL Police Academies around the world in it's version and it's not recommended to talk about "manual" existence, at all.
I do not know if this reporter was reading such a book but I can see that Kouchner didn't- because...,
THIS WAS TYPICAL REACTION OF THE PERSON- INVOLVED!!
Anyway, I told that many times, Serbian Government should offer should offer a HUGE award and safe refuge (literary) to anyone with information- "penetrating" enough..
This would be the GREATEST achievement in fight for Kosovo. Many "rock solid" stances would change and the word "irreversible" would just disappear from "the scene".., overnight!
"Come on man, some provocations are just too much, too absurd, too lunatic I would add, to play it cool."
(KU)
-- Oh come on. Professional decorum doesn't cost anything, particularly for a distinguished European like him. And for someone who worked/founded Doctors Without Borders, one would think someone like Kouchner would be a little more above political partisanship, right? Plus, the article mentions he was asked this by someone who worked for VOA! Not some tabloid rag like Kurir or (Serbian) Pravda. He could have certainly handled it far better and far more professionally. Getting confrontational like that surely doesn't help quash any rumors. Especially when it's coming from someone with a far more dubious past than his medical credentials would like to prove. I'm surprised he didn't throw out a "yo momma" insult to the reporter too.
His reaction was way out of proportion to the question asked. I must admit to being a little shocked.
Its a completely normal, expected question that a journalist would ask following such allegations / investigations, not simply from domestic sources.
Actually Peggy I think you are wrong on this. The very fact that this is reported by B92, Blic and all the media in Serbia would ensure that the question is asked again by Serbian journalists. On the one hand the journalist instinct tells us that such a reaction means there is something there and on the other to insult the journalist profession like that for reporting on an active issue, ensures that journalists organisations and supporters of a free press would also have an interest.
I must admit to having some doubts on this story, but after Kouchner's reaction I wonder...
Jeez, couldn't he have just said "no comment"??? It seems that the international community is actually taking these allegations seriously, so what was this guy thinking?
(Nenad, 2 March 2010 16:40)
What Int. community are you referring to? Private parties paid by Belgrade?
If you have had any doubt about lesser “men” being part of ruling the west then Bernard Kouchner removes that uncertainty . However, since he has been paid by the Albanians in the past why would you expect this snail sniffing buffoon to give you a proper answer.
Any country where the military elite are mercenaries says a lot for that state.
THIS WAS TYPICAL REACTION OF THE PERSON- INVOLVED!!
(ZMAJ, 3 March 2010 00:47)
If I am Kouchner I would just say that "While working for UN in Pristina I did not see any irregularities of this kind. Otherwise I am not an investigator, I am the head of French FM.. and let the investigators who are working on the case uncover the truth."
I am surprised that a V.I.P. like Kouchner goes to a hot spot like Gracanica and is unprepared to such a big degree. The job of journalists is to ask any question they want, if it is about Elvis on the Moon, than let it be Elvis on the Moon.
The job of diplomats is to represent their country at their best and let not forget: Kouchner is the head of French diplomacy.
I see conflicts like this being normal. But after such incident I am not sure Kouchner does represent French interests properly: his diplomatic skills seem to be poor and his staff was caught with pants down.
--------
Ah, once again, our expert and all-knowing blogger. Sixty-some million French and Joe knows them all pretty well.
(Roger7, 3 March 2010 01:39)
I don't think Joe is very familiar with the situation on Balkans; seems that simple "who-is-who" trivia is a challenge. What I am missing is the willingness to at least learn that. If nothing else I hope he did already learn: Vlora Citaku is Albanian. Or maybe it's a revelation for him....
And who is eager to represent Hungarian(?) or what-not interests on B92, please consider not to be not stingy and pay that little goddamn fee to your beloved Magyarország for re-establishing the citizenship and re-newing the passport. It's easy + cheap. Boosting that you don't give a rat's behind to ANY EU country on the same B92 few days earlier makes people later smile. At least, some consistency does not hurt.
"Kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in remote part of albania without even electricity and water"(Lili, 2 March 2010 19:OO)
And IF "Kouchner is a doctor" as you say He would know that any bathroom or room is enough, don't speak about field improvisations at all.
Nicic is a VOA reporter? If America's propoganda aperatus is asking questions like that it means Team Albania has lost its masters favor. This is a subtle hint for them to get back to the negotiating table. I wonder if they will get the hint?
"Actually Peggy I think you are wrong on this. The very fact that this is reported by B92, Blic and all the media in Serbia would ensure that the question is asked again by Serbian journalists."
=====================
Bravo Kouchner, at least you are saying loud how insane those allegations are. It's not about some allegations, it's about a propaganda. This propaganda is trying to mix the murders and their victims. Far away from the values. This is the reason you Mr Koushner have explode. There is a certain point any provocation can be tolerated. In my opinion they who are arising such pervers claims, like the yellow house, are losing more than with their failed and antihuman wars. It will prove not now but certainly in the close future.
I think the jornalists of so called KIM radio which it self is ilegal should be trained better when asking questions. Just remember mr kuchner went there to encourage the dialogue between the comunities not to investigate the crimes ( especialy the yellow house non exsist crims) I really admire this friend of peace loving people for his job he has done in1999-2001. So Kosova I Metohia radio which I presume it means, train your jornalists.
"Kouchner was asked to comment on the case, and claims of the families of the kidnapped and murdered Serbs, who accused him of participating in the human organ trafficking."
Well, how would anybody among us react if anybody would claim/ask that you have been part of human organ trafficking case? This Serbian reporter accused the French Minister a got a proper answer which everybody would do, maybe even more.
No proof, no case, no nothing, just the accusation of Serbs who desperately need something to divert from the atrocities committed in Serbian name. Remeber yesterday, Karadzic's holy war of genocide. I think that shows perfectly why radical Serbs really want this fairy tale to be true. But fairy tales are written in books. Trials need proofs. That is why Carla never even mentioned it. It is good to know that this farce will not be supported by the Albanian side. 2002 was a clear examination with no proofs found. End of the (fairy tale) story.
Strange, then, that Philip Alston, UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions has just returned from Tirana bemoaning the complete lack of cooperation from the authorities.
on one hand there are people who are sure that organ harvesting happened, on the other there are people who are sure it didn't happen. the reality is that not a single person who made a comment of this kind on this site knows, so that makes them all look a bit dumb in advance.
on the other hand people got used to using attrocities for propaganda purposes, so it's hardly surprising. denying crimes of your side and exaggerating the crimes of the other side is common even among the people who are sensible enough not to paint an entire ethnic group as war criminals. what a nice game to play.
as for couchner, it just goes to show what happens to western diplomats when they get confronted by tough questions. which hardly ever happens in their home countries. elected officials are treated with way too much respect which makes them look better than they really are. i remember watching the same person on 2 different tv shows. in one he looked like a complete moron. in the other he looked cool. you can imagine which journalists did the better job.
It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!
(Joe, 3 March 2010 01:49)
Gee... I hope you do know who is "VoA" the reporter does represent, don't you? I hope you do not think, VoA is Putin's lap dog. And if VoA asks that question, your "Monsieur le Ministre" is better to be polite. Otherwise someone in the "A" out of "VoA" could mind his style.
In regard of that, "Monsieur le Ministre" is either a prime time idiot or was caught with pants down.
ha ha ha, all the world is laughihng with allegations of serbian side. bravo Kuschner.
(beki, 3 March 2010 09:20)
No, all the world is scratching their head: wow, "VoA" did ask THAT question. Everyone knows whom "VoA" does represent and what country is the "A" letter for (except Joe, maybe) - but no one knows, what weed Kouchner was smoking.
If nothing else I hope he did already learn: Vlora Citaku is Albanian. Or maybe it's a revelation for him...
(Ataman, 3 March 2010 03:25)
I think I was demanding to much yesterday. OK, Joe, let's start over again.
Not just Vlora Citaku is Albanian, but "VoA" radio station (that's the "offending" reporter is working for) is American.
Namely "VoA" stands for "Voice of America". We are never old enough to learn, right? If you do not like the question just call your representative and complain, why does United States employ such reporters.
This is a smear campaign perpetrated by those at the helm in Serbia, the same people who today, if there was any justice, would be behind bars.
After Serbia UNILATERALLY revoked Kosovo's autonomy, an autonomy that saw Kosovo as a constituent federal unit of Yugoslavia, all of the security posts were replaced by Serbs. The police and paramilitary in Kosovo was Serb and more numerous at that, disproportionate to the rest of Yugoslavia. These same people committed atrocious crimes in Kosovo, pillaging entire villages and forcing Albanians of Pristina on trains headed for the Macedonia border. They took part in executions, looted houses, and raped women, children, and men and boys. The transportation of Albanian victims to the middle of Belgrade was not carried out by one single individual. Those who dismiss these obvious details have no common sense and are delusional. Thus I am sure these same people would like to divert any attention from their own crimes - these are the same Kosovo Serbs who do not wish to return to Kosovo. They know that either the law or those relatives of their victims await them.
(Steve JP, 3 March 2010 00:10)
Sounds more like you are having to dig too deep to keep the story alive.
Electricity could have been imported, water could have been carried in, or just maybe it is a tale that many want to keep alive because it makes the Albanians look worse than the Serbians during the war, you think?
Bernard Kouchner should have stated, that he heard about these allegations and such crime should be condemmed, perpetrators of such heinous acts do not belong in humanity, instead he went into an ego defensive based rebuttal which would alert any criminal psychologist. Bernard you should have learnt from your Neocon mate's mistake, that sort of denial response style don't work to well.
You just confirm that this sharade is not about justice but your vendetta against the state of Kosovo. That is why you will got even an inch of cooperation from Tirana and Pristina.
(John, 3 March 2010 11:59)
"It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!" (Joe)
-- Oh Joe you're so silly. Punishing journalists because they report "cheap senseless provocations" is so...so...Russian. Why not round up all of these muckraking journalists who dare to kick arse instead of kick it? In fact, let's just censor media altogether. I always knew that you were a true Stalinist at heart hiding behind our country's flag. ;)
PS - I'm sure you know that VOA doesn't stand for Vojvodina out of Austria.
I agree with Ataman, ...and at the same time I am really astonished by the naivety displayed by some writers here!
first of all, there is someone from VoA asking THAT question ...interesting! and who´s being asked? Kouchner! ...not only is that a delicate question posed in front of a french foreign minister, but the best thing at all is his reaction!
instead of being cool, and sovereign, like a politician who has nothing to hide or fear, ... he became angry and loud! and THAT makes him suspicious, indeed.
well, we will see whether his collar is as white as he would like the world to believe.
...but celebrating him as someone who has "given the serbs a lesson" is simply stupid.
Poland remember hypocrite France in 1939. Our "ally" left us alone and don't help at the time of Hitler's invasion. Mr Kouchner is really good succesor of french FM Georges-Étienne Bonnet from 1938-39, time of Munich Conference and invasion of Poland.
I don't support any side but I'm just informing you that the public TV station of Kosovo RTK gave a false translation of this case. And this was the last time I watch news on RTK, I'm Albanian myself but in such scandals one have to be realistic, SHAME ON RTK
KU in a normally functioning democracy there would be no reason why the President would have extra knowledge of a legal case. Perhaps Serbia isn't a functioning democracy but I'm quite sure that Tadic does not familiarise himself with every detail of every particular case / allegation made.
But you did make an interesting point - what would Tadic have done had this occured before the visit to Djindjic's grave was scheduled? Hard to say really. Perhaps Kouchner would have thought twice before flying off the handle like that knowing it could have ramifications?
KU why do you think that Kouchner overeacted like that? And do you think he helped the Kosovo Albanian position by doing so?
Anyway, what can one expect from a guy that has changed so many times his mind
[link]
(The Swiss, 2 March 2010 16:34)
He didn't change his mind (center-left to right wing). He still is considered a leftist but he was hired by Sarkozy for his experience, diplomatic efforts, humanism, etc. in addition, Sarkozy's gov't it was to be considered a unity gov't, thus Kouchner became member of PM cabinet as the socialist part of the gov't.
It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!
This would be the GREATEST achievement in fight for Kosovo. Many "rock solid" stances would change and the word "irreversible" would just disappear from "the scene".., overnight!
(ZMAJ, 3 March 2010 00:47)
You just confirm that this sharade is not about justice but your vendetta against the state of Kosovo. That is why you will got even an inch of cooperation from Tirana and Pristina.
...but celebrating him as someone who has "given the serbs a lesson" is simply stupid.
(Jovan, 3 March 2010 14:46)
Yes, usually swearing and giving reporters / public servants hard time calling their momma and enumerating her body parts in public is bad karma. Not even close to "giving a lesson".
So it is credibility of Bernard Kouchner VS. credibility of Budimir from VoA Ataman? Is that how you want to put it?
(KU, 3 March 2010 18:57)
No, please read again. Budimir from VoA got under "friendly fire". This is considered a disaster in military. Tells us a lot about how "professionally" were things organized by the French. The fact French did mistake the VoA reporter for someone else speaks volumes. Here the entourage of the FM are to blame. The French should care in advance to avoid such embarrassment.
France - like Italy - is not known to be the best organizer. I can't imagine such things would happen if the FM would be from Germany, Singapore or Japan.
On the other hand if I say that "cars made in Japan or Germany have at average better reliability record than the ones made in France or Italy" - this is a triviality every "majstor" between BP and PR will confirm.
I am not talking about the case itself. I am talking about the presumed involvement of Kouchner in it. Yes, I believe that if the Serbian prosecution had any proof that Kouchner was involved, Tadic would know about it. So either Tadic knows but does not care, or Tadic does not know, because the prosecution does not know anything about Kouchner. This means that the journalist and (according to the journalist) the families of the victims heard that Kouchner was involved from somewhere else, or just made it up.
Why he overreacted? We did not hear an explanation from him, of why he overreacted. All we can do is guess why. I choose to look at the simplest explanation, he was being accused of something horrible. Accused, not just asked profesionally, because the question was something like "what was your role?". Other people here choose to believe that he got nervous, because he is involved. That is very difficult to believe, given the history of the man and given his relations with part of the Serbian politicians (it takes a very special relation to be able to put flowers on the grave of Djindjic I believe, but maybe I am wrong?). A certain part of the Serbian media is also choosing to give to their own people the same hard to believe explanation. I do not understand why, maybe just to sell more.
The thing that made me think a bit about his reaction, is his association between the person who accused him and the "bums and murderers". He went from talking in singular to the journalist, "you are sick", to talking in plural about "bums and murderers". That kind of association maybe tells things, given the position he had in Kosovo and the experience he had about how certain things work in Serbia and Kosovo. Maybe he was thinking about those who murdered Djindjic, he had just come from his grave. Maybe he associated those who accuse him about organ trafficking with those who murdered Djindjic. He was in a position to know what Djindjic wanted to do for Serbia and what part of Serbian society wanted him dead and how that part of Serbian society functions. But these are just maybe-s.
The Kosovo Albanian position is not important in this case, it is not related to it, it will not be affected by it. Even in the case those horrible allegations about organ trafficking (in general, not about involvement of Kouchner) are proved true somehow, the Kosovo Albanian position will not be affected, it is founded on the principle of assuring stability in the Balkans, not on organ trafficking. Personally, I truly hope those things did not happen, not because of Albanian or Serbian position, victim or assassin nationality, but because they are just horrible. I do not wish anybody that horrible fate.
KU you and I both hope that people's organs were not harvested. That kind of thing truly does not bare thinking about really but I do believe that such allegations are not a laughing matter, as Kouchner did.
Perhaps the Serbian journalist could have phrased the question differently. We have a fair number of intelligent journalists in Serbia (believe it or not). However, it begs belief that only one asked this question (even if it was in a crass way) - but it is a question that is valid - What is Kouchners position on Karla Del Pontes allegations of organ harvesting that were taken to a yellow house in Albania? Our journalist asked about Kouchners involvement in organ harvesting.
What would Kouchner say to Dick Marty who has looked into the subject to brief European institutions.
Our journalist 'what do you say about the yellow house'? Sadly our journalist didn't seem to know details as to where the house was or to drop in the fact that tribunal investigators visited it, rather he kept repeating yellow house and organ harvesting.
Better is were you aware of these allegations, considering your previous position in Kosovo, and to what end did you attempt to investigate them?
Finally, the tabloid style question - were you in any way involved Mr Kouchner in the covering up of organ harvesting etc...
But lets be realistic about this of course Kouchner did not take part in organ harvesting - the issue is whether in the name of regional stability, placating the local population, fear of former paramilitary leaders, wanting to uphold western policy - call it what you will, that he possessed knowledge / evidence of organ harvesting but burried it.
That isn't so far fetched. As I've stated previously I have read certain secret service reports on Kosovo and the extent of complicity on the part of internationals with local leaders is quite unbelievable. Principle has very little to do with their role I can't say the situation on the ground today, but I know it was like this only a few years ago.
does any one know the email add of Carla del ponte!!! yes you guess it right , i would like to email this to her.what the Reporter got, the same goes to miss or mrs del ponte
"I must admit to having some doubts on this story, but after Kouchner's reaction I wonder..."
(bganon, 2 March 2010 22:49)
So which is the party that has the most information on this case? I would believe the Serb prosecution, since it is the one that has investigated it for the longest time and the one that put more resources into the investigation. So I would believe the Serbian prosecution is the most informed on the case. This means that Tadic too must be one of the most informed on the case. Kouchner and Tadic met just a few days ago, Kouchner put flowers on the grave of Djindjic. How can Tadic meet with somebody like Kouchner then? Either Tadic knows not so much about the case, because there is not much there, or Tadic is just another person who is hiding the so-called "truth". So the question becomes "do you people trust your own leaders more, or your interpretation of an irritated reaction by Kouchner?". See how confused Peggy sounds for example, she says "we are our own worst enemies". I am suspecting this whole noise is being made to indirectly attack Tadic. I would expect Kostunica to come out and say something tomorrow.
"Gee... I hope you do know who is "VoA" the reporter does represent, don't you? I hope you do not think, VoA is Putin's lap dog. And if VoA asks that question, your "Monsieur le Ministre" is better to be polite. Otherwise someone in the "A" out of "VoA" could mind his style."
(Ataman, 3 March 2010 12:15)
So it is credibility of Bernard Kouchner VS. credibility of Budimir from VoA Ataman? Is that how you want to put it?
What Kouchner was reacting to is something he perceived as a personal accusation.
His forced laughter was merely a hysterical reaction of a man caught off guard.
The thing that surprises me is this times and again heard drivel about “Serbian propaganda” referring to reported organ harvesting and trafficking.
Whatever the cause of this denial, the initial information about organ harvesting came from Carla del Ponte who was once cheered by anti-Serb nationalist fanatics pretty much like they cheer Kouchner now.
TV B92 which further investigated these reports and launched a series of documentaries about the “yellow house” is a broadcaster which enjoys a wide support of foreign embassies and NGOs as well as ethnic minorities including Albanians and is often perceived as anti-Serbian by Serb nationalists.
Last year TV B92 CEO Veran Matic received the Knight of the French Legion of Honor medal.
The journalist Nikčević who posed a question to Kouchner is actually a Voice of America correspondent.
So I really don’t see any reason for such imputations as “Serbian propaganda” aside from tribal xenophobic paranoid urges.
I think the jornalists of so called KIM radio which it self is ilegal should be trained better when asking questions. Just remember mr kuchner went there to encourage the dialogue between the comunities not to investigate the crimes ( especialy the yellow house non exsist crims) I really admire this friend of peace loving people for his job he has done in1999-2001. So Kosova I Metohia radio which I presume it means, train your jornalists.
When Ničić posed his question, Kouchner reportedly "laughed", and said: "You are sick. You are a lunatic, don't be saying nonsense like that".
Kounchner then went on to say that he "cannot believe that someone was asking such a nonsensical question".
"What's the yellow house? Why yellow? Sir, you should see your doctor. People who talk about things like that are bums and murderers," the radio quoted the top French diplomat as saying.
Thank you Mr. Kuchner.
I must say that you are lucky Mr. Kuchner that very occasionally are in touch with lunticism, because you very rarely meet Serbian officials. We are dealing with lunatic comments on daily basis...like "Kosovo is heart of Serbia", "Kosovo is soul of Serbia", "Kosovo was ALWAYS Serbian" etc...
We, Albanians too cannot believe that someone asks or makes such a nonsensical comments...We too call such individuals bums, murderers and hypocrites,...BUT they still resume that non-sense.
As a doctor, you Mr. Kuchner COULD do us a favour if you could tell us how to deal with these types of sick people that we encounter hourly basis.
When Ničić posed his question, Kouchner reportedly "laughed", and said: "You are sick. You are a lunatic, don't be saying nonsense like that".
Kounchner then went on to say that he "cannot believe that someone was asking such a nonsensical question".
"What's the yellow house? Why yellow? Sir, you should see your doctor. People who talk about things like that are bums and murderers," the radio quoted the top French diplomat as saying.
I think this reprterr should get the medal for asking a stupid question? why, we should award only smart journalist, we should award the dumb ones too.
kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in a remoted part of albania without even electricity and water!
Interesting how this apparent "diplomat" became very undiplomatic when presented with this question. He could have easily dismissed it like a professional, but it says a lot about someone when under unexpected pressure he feels the need to shoot the messenger and sound like Hugo Chavez. But since this is the guy who bailed out Ceku last year, I'm not surprised he trips over himself now and again in trying to cover up anything that would make his Albanian friends look anything less than completely "European".
Sad for France to have such a ministry of foreign affairs and clown Sarkozy for a president. The reporter should sue Kouchner.
(Bez_Cenzure, 2 March 2010 16:32)
===================
Sadly some of our reporters will still suck up to him and be very, very careful about what their future questions will be.
Tadic will continue to bow to him like nothing was said.
We are our own worst enemies.
I'm surprised he didn't throw out a "yo momma" insult to the reporter too.
(Mike, 2 March 2010 18:12)
We should not forget, he was at that time UN representative in Kosovo. Obviously he took that question as a personal attack. Given his vast experience: very undiplomatic and very unprofessional.
I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty.
Jeez, couldn't he have just said "no comment"??? It seems that the international community is actually taking these allegations seriously, so what was this guy thinking?
(Nenad, 2 March 2010 16:40)
What Int. community are you referring to? Private parties paid by Belgrade?
...Kouncher was asked to comment on the case, and claims of the families of the kidnapped and murdered Serbs, who accused him of participating in the human organ trafficking.
===================
Nicely put KU... I don't know what the Swiss was trying to achieve by posting the Wikipedia link, but I guess he missed the humanitarian work of this man.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
Mr. Kouchner was obviously irritated when he replied to the journalist's question in that manner.
Mr. Kouchner has an awful lot to answer for regarding his behaviour as first UN representative in KiM after the NATO invasion.
His retort to the journalist shows he's very fearful of the train of exposures which is coming down the line; these exposures of his abysmal conduct in KiM during his term as SRSG could well end his political career to say the least and may even land him in the Hague.
Question to one of the founders of Medecins sans Frontieres (Doctors without Borders), Nobel prize organization:
"What is your role in the yellow house case?".
Meaning "how much were you paid for removing and selling organs of people?"
I repeat it, in case it did not sink in. A journalist asked the founder of Doctors without Borders, a Nobel Prize organization, which has cured the victims of many wars (in Serbia too) and people in third world countries for almost 40 years; the journalist asked the founder of this organization what was his role in removing and selling organs of people.
Now Mike, you say he should just have said "No comment"? Play it cool? Come on man, some provocations are just too much, too absurd, too lunatic I would add, to play it cool.
Bravo Kouchner, at least you are saying loud how insane those allegations are. It's not about some allegations, it's about a propaganda. This propaganda is trying to mix the murders and their victims. Far away from the values. This is the reason you Mr Koushner have explode. There is a certain point any provocation can be tolerated. In my opinion they who are arising such pervers claims, like the yellow house, are losing more than with their failed and antihuman wars. It will prove not now but certainly in the close future.
"Kouncher, who was UN administrator in Kosovo from 1999 until 2001" - this says it all. Not only should the "Yellow House" investigations continue with even more zealousness, but the FM should be also investigated to see if he was in any way implicated, or if he simply looked the other way, as did the NATO troops during the 2004 pogrom of Kosovo Serbs, and the destruction of ancient monasteries, by the Albanians.
I'd say Kouchner is guilty otherwise he wouldn't be acting this way. Organ trafficking is something that is known to have happened in Albania. In 1998, Albania's Attorney General Arben Rakipi told the media that organized crime syndicates operating in Albania were kidnapping Albanian orphans and special needs children and selling their organs on the black market. If they can disect and traffic organs harvested from Albanian orphans, there is no reason I can see why they couldn't harvest and traffic in organs harvested from the KLA's Serbian prisoners. Why would Kouchner be so determined to convince people that this never happened unless he really was involved somehow? The Albanians themselves have said that a black market organ trade existed in their country, how can anybody be so sure that these missing Serbian prisoners didn't meet that fate?
"Kouchner was asked to comment on the case, and claims of the families of the kidnapped and murdered Serbs, who accused him of participating in the human organ trafficking."
Well, how would anybody among us react if anybody would claim/ask that you have been part of human organ trafficking case? This Serbian reporter accused the French Minister a got a proper answer which everybody would do, maybe even more.
No proof, no case, no nothing, just the accusation of Serbs who desperately need something to divert from the atrocities committed in Serbian name. Remeber yesterday, Karadzic's holy war of genocide. I think that shows perfectly why radical Serbs really want this fairy tale to be true. But fairy tales are written in books. Trials need proofs. That is why Carla never even mentioned it. It is good to know that this farce will not be supported by the Albanian side. 2002 was a clear examination with no proofs found. End of the (fairy tale) story.
This is a smear campaign perpetrated by those at the helm in Serbia, the same people who today, if there was any justice, would be behind bars.
After Serbia UNILATERALLY revoked Kosovo's autonomy, an autonomy that saw Kosovo as a constituent federal unit of Yugoslavia, all of the security posts were replaced by Serbs. The police and paramilitary in Kosovo was Serb and more numerous at that, disproportionate to the rest of Yugoslavia. These same people committed atrocious crimes in Kosovo, pillaging entire villages and forcing Albanians of Pristina on trains headed for the Macedonia border. They took part in executions, looted houses, and raped women, children, and men and boys. The transportation of Albanian victims to the middle of Belgrade was not carried out by one single individual. Those who dismiss these obvious details have no common sense and are delusional. Thus I am sure these same people would like to divert any attention from their own crimes - these are the same Kosovo Serbs who do not wish to return to Kosovo. They know that either the law or those relatives of their victims await them.
Indeed there were a lot of lunatics during this below french operation, the first one and far most responsible.... kouchner.
Sarkozy was a few days ago in Kigali admitting that France has....let's say... under estimated the situation on the ground...., of course no excuses... and the man on the ground was... kouchner.
(Steve JP, 3 March 2010 00:10)
Sounds more like you are having to dig too deep to keep the story alive.
Electricity could have been imported, water could have been carried in, or just maybe it is a tale that many want to keep alive because it makes the Albanians look worse than the Serbians during the war, you think?
In showing callous, blatant disregard for the facts of the matter, and in publicly ridiculing a reputable and well-known journalist in the most crude, un-European fashion, Mr. Kouchner has demonstrated his gross immaturity and inadequacy as a diplomat representing France, a great and important member of the international community. Indeed, he has become a liability to France's international prestige and reputation in the most spectacularly embarrassing, cringe-inducing fashion. I firmly believe that public apology on part of Mr. Kouchner would be in order here.
Allow me to remind Mr. Kouchner that BOTH UN and EU have appointed independent commissions to probe the serious allegations of organ harvesting and trafficking committed by Albanians during the NATO bombing of Serbia and beyond. It is quite clear that "Yellow House" internment camp for the Serbs in Albania is not a figment of Serbian collective imagination or paranoia.
Clearly, the World's and the European top officials feel that there is ABUNDANT body of evidence to support Serbian charges of horrendous and truly unspeakable crimes committed against its citizens, and that such allegations hold sufficient merit to be looked into. Whether these allegations are true remains to be seen, but one thing is certain: hundreds of Serbs disappeared from Kosovo during the bombing and were last seen alive around the Kukes, Albania, region in 1999. This is where their trail goes cold.
It is truly unconscionable that one of the founding fathers of the Doctors Without Borders can render himself so totally impervious and downright blind to such brutal butchering (literally) of the fellow human beings. If these allegations are true - and they have not been credibly refuted by anyone thus far - we can surely speak of one of the most monstrous crime in the history of the human race. Surely, in terms of sheer barbarity and sadistic horror, these alleged crimes have no known point of reference.
Serbia enjoys a full and unqualified support of European Community and International Law Enforcement Agencies in insisting that Albania and de-facto rulers of Kosovo come clean on this serious matter. I call upon France to vigorously and without hesitation do the same.
What NORMAL person would be against finding the truth- unless he's afraid- and it shows! He KNOWS all about the "Yellow House" (as do his EU masters) and is simply playing the defensive "game", belittling any mention of it. He will go down in history as an irrelevant - and I hope that Kouchner will be brought to the Hague (or better yet, to some more impartial court of justice) to finally answer for his crimes against the Serbs and mankind. Why would the Serbs even meet with him in Belgrade, knowing his hatred of the Serbs? Oh, I forgot who's leading the government...
Why was he allowed in Gracanica-anyone that supported albanian aggression should be banned from religios sites.
And -yes -we all know that thanks to NATO albanians were selling organs of Serb population and that he would defend shamefull actions-but please keep him away..
What is 'sick and insane' was kouchner's nato propaganda. These crimes did take place but maybe it will expose the "democratic west" involvement or knowledge. This is why they are so afraid like mr kouchner who was and still is a vehement anti-Serb! But it's ok kouchner we do not like you too!
"Come on man, some provocations are just too much, too absurd, too lunatic I would add, to play it cool."
(KU)
-- Oh come on. Professional decorum doesn't cost anything, particularly for a distinguished European like him. And for someone who worked/founded Doctors Without Borders, one would think someone like Kouchner would be a little more above political partisanship, right? Plus, the article mentions he was asked this by someone who worked for VOA! Not some tabloid rag like Kurir or (Serbian) Pravda. He could have certainly handled it far better and far more professionally. Getting confrontational like that surely doesn't help quash any rumors. Especially when it's coming from someone with a far more dubious past than his medical credentials would like to prove. I'm surprised he didn't throw out a "yo momma" insult to the reporter too.
Jeez, couldn't he have just said "no comment"??? It seems that the international community is actually taking these allegations seriously, so what was this guy thinking?
I just wonder why BBC would report about organ harvesting if is rubbish http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8531289.stm
The most interested part was when he asked journalist if he thinks that him and Rada Trajkovic were stealing corpses and taking organs. As far as I remember journalist did not mentioned Rada Trajkovic at all.
I just wonder how he remembered suddenly what is "yellow house" all about. At first he pretended that he did not know anything.
The Albanians commentators on this website automatically presume that organ harvesting never happened. How do you guys knows? Is that because you think that Albanians are not capable of doing such a horrible things?
It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!
"I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty." (Ataman)
-- Exactly my point. It's one thing for the Emperor to get a little jostled when after a day of having his hind quarters repeatedly kissed by fervent supplicants, some insignificant Balkan Borat reminds him he has no clothes. But to carry on like an angry B92 blogger whose normative opinions are challenged with empirical data? Most suspicious.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
(Ment, 2 March 2010 18:47)
Yes, that's the point. He was heading the UN office during the time we suspect the organ trafficking cases did happen. The reaction today was either clearly inadequate or the question was a "bull's eye".
The journalist is not a clown. He was doing the job journalist supposed to do. It's why the journalists are not always welcome - they tend to ask uncomfortable questions.
Otherwise it is funny to read the recent comments of very same people who praised so much Carla del Ponte. At the moment she wrote what he wrote - she became the wicked witch overnight.
Well once when we allowed that Kouchner in our country in the first place, we don't deserve better.
It took him short two days to loose the false facade of friendship toward Serbia and additionally he managed to dare to claim that massacre against Serbs and non Albanians in "Yellow House" never happened though investigation about it, from the side of European Council, is just about to begin.
Though politics is a dirty business I certainly hope that our Government will not be inviting in "friendly" visits the ones who masterminded campaign of illegal bombings of our country. If we keep on doing so we will be receiving the respect as it was shown in this "spontaneous" case by the French FM.
"Kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in remote part of albania without even electricity and water"(Lili, 2 March 2010 19:OO)
And IF "Kouchner is a doctor" as you say He would know that any bathroom or room is enough, don't speak about field improvisations at all.
This would be the GREATEST achievement in fight for Kosovo. Many "rock solid" stances would change and the word "irreversible" would just disappear from "the scene".., overnight!
(ZMAJ, 3 March 2010 00:47)
You just confirm that this sharade is not about justice but your vendetta against the state of Kosovo. That is why you will got even an inch of cooperation from Tirana and Pristina.
In lack of evidence, police is using "shake" methods like provocations, insults etc. By coincidence and/or professional reasons this reporter have done the same exactly like "by manual"..
There's book you never have it "out of the room" when you study criminology and you're limited in time you can "spend with it". In Serbia it's called "Uputstva o Opste Operativnom Radu". Police's GREAT TABOO!! You have it in ALL Police Academies around the world in it's version and it's not recommended to talk about "manual" existence, at all.
I do not know if this reporter was reading such a book but I can see that Kouchner didn't- because...,
THIS WAS TYPICAL REACTION OF THE PERSON- INVOLVED!!
Anyway, I told that many times, Serbian Government should offer should offer a HUGE award and safe refuge (literary) to anyone with information- "penetrating" enough..
This would be the GREATEST achievement in fight for Kosovo. Many "rock solid" stances would change and the word "irreversible" would just disappear from "the scene".., overnight!
"I must admit to having some doubts on this story, but after Kouchner's reaction I wonder..."
(bganon, 2 March 2010 22:49)
So which is the party that has the most information on this case? I would believe the Serb prosecution, since it is the one that has investigated it for the longest time and the one that put more resources into the investigation. So I would believe the Serbian prosecution is the most informed on the case. This means that Tadic too must be one of the most informed on the case. Kouchner and Tadic met just a few days ago, Kouchner put flowers on the grave of Djindjic. How can Tadic meet with somebody like Kouchner then? Either Tadic knows not so much about the case, because there is not much there, or Tadic is just another person who is hiding the so-called "truth". So the question becomes "do you people trust your own leaders more, or your interpretation of an irritated reaction by Kouchner?". See how confused Peggy sounds for example, she says "we are our own worst enemies". I am suspecting this whole noise is being made to indirectly attack Tadic. I would expect Kostunica to come out and say something tomorrow.
"Gee... I hope you do know who is "VoA" the reporter does represent, don't you? I hope you do not think, VoA is Putin's lap dog. And if VoA asks that question, your "Monsieur le Ministre" is better to be polite. Otherwise someone in the "A" out of "VoA" could mind his style."
(Ataman, 3 March 2010 12:15)
So it is credibility of Bernard Kouchner VS. credibility of Budimir from VoA Ataman? Is that how you want to put it?
I would say... it's almost SUSPICIOUS how nervous was he. Pretty nasty.
(Ataman, 2 March 2010 19:15)
I fully agree. His rwaction is very suspicious, like he is nervous and has something to hide. But dont worry, those skeletons in Bernard's closet will out some day.
What is even worse is the reaction from the Albanian fascists on this site. Very regretable indeed.
Nicely put KU... I don't know what the Swiss was trying to achieve by posting the Wikipedia link, but I guess he missed the humanitarian work of this man.
In his shoes, I'd think I'd be pretty pissed off too, if some clown accused me of being personally involved in human trafficking.
(Ment, 2 March 2010 18:47)
What I was trying to achieve, well nothing more than the truth about a very controversial person all along his "carrier".
May I just remember you that the french operation in Ruanda started "thanks to him" and against the advise of people on the ground, which leaded at the end of an increase of the massacre of local population.
Why do you think that Sarkozy himself felt going there a week ago to state that they "under estimated" the situation on the ground; at the end it was based on the advise of kouchner they armed the hutus and gave them an indirect signal that the massacre can persue!! At the same time they completely failed to stop the killings and failed to arrest the famous "genocide voice of the hills".
Why to you think that Ruanda asked about 1 month ago for France to appologize for their "wrong" involment! How many people died in Ruanda??
Kouchner was expelled from nearly every organization or political party he was involved in and even today he is being "corrected" by the prime minister.
kouchner is a disgusting person who is always quick in spitting on other people but will never look back at his bloody past.
The fact that he was a medecin sans frontieres doesn't give him the right to be so arrogant and selfish, but again his all life is based on this, what else to expect!!
It is a real shame for France to be so badly represented.
THIS WAS TYPICAL REACTION OF THE PERSON- INVOLVED!!
(ZMAJ, 3 March 2010 00:47)
If I am Kouchner I would just say that "While working for UN in Pristina I did not see any irregularities of this kind. Otherwise I am not an investigator, I am the head of French FM.. and let the investigators who are working on the case uncover the truth."
I am surprised that a V.I.P. like Kouchner goes to a hot spot like Gracanica and is unprepared to such a big degree. The job of journalists is to ask any question they want, if it is about Elvis on the Moon, than let it be Elvis on the Moon.
The job of diplomats is to represent their country at their best and let not forget: Kouchner is the head of French diplomacy.
I see conflicts like this being normal. But after such incident I am not sure Kouchner does represent French interests properly: his diplomatic skills seem to be poor and his staff was caught with pants down.
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Ah, once again, our expert and all-knowing blogger. Sixty-some million French and Joe knows them all pretty well.
(Roger7, 3 March 2010 01:39)
I don't think Joe is very familiar with the situation on Balkans; seems that simple "who-is-who" trivia is a challenge. What I am missing is the willingness to at least learn that. If nothing else I hope he did already learn: Vlora Citaku is Albanian. Or maybe it's a revelation for him....
And who is eager to represent Hungarian(?) or what-not interests on B92, please consider not to be not stingy and pay that little goddamn fee to your beloved Magyarország for re-establishing the citizenship and re-newing the passport. It's easy + cheap. Boosting that you don't give a rat's behind to ANY EU country on the same B92 few days earlier makes people later smile. At least, some consistency does not hurt.
does any one know the email add of Carla del ponte!!! yes you guess it right , i would like to email this to her.what the Reporter got, the same goes to miss or mrs del ponte
Anyway, what can one expect from a guy that has changed so many times his mind
[link]
(The Swiss, 2 March 2010 16:34)
He didn't change his mind (center-left to right wing). He still is considered a leftist but he was hired by Sarkozy for his experience, diplomatic efforts, humanism, etc. in addition, Sarkozy's gov't it was to be considered a unity gov't, thus Kouchner became member of PM cabinet as the socialist part of the gov't.
"Kouchner is a doctor and knows that for organ transplant you need some more infrastructure than a yellow house in remote part of albania without even electricity and water"(Lili, 2 March 2010 19:OO)
The place for clandestine, illegal, immoral, organ transplant can be a remote part of Albania which has few people to see and hear things. A (yellow) house without electricity means nothing. Either electricity was supplied there at one time when all this evil was happening or there was no electricity from outside power lines, but electricity could have been supplied by battery powered portable generators. Hospitals use such generators during times of power blackouts. Also, if the house has no water; it may have had water flowing into its pipes when this was happening. If not, water could have been delivered by vehicles. As a point to consider: there are people drink who bottled water and have a huge water bottle in their house which is upside down and connected to a special faucet box. Such people often have extra huge water bottles to use after one water bottle gets used up. My aunt, in the 1960's in the USA, had such a water bottle system in her house. Also, with Kouchner being a doctor, that makes him able to have a certain amount of knowledge on how human organ transplants are done.
Nicic is a VOA reporter? If America's propoganda aperatus is asking questions like that it means Team Albania has lost its masters favor. This is a subtle hint for them to get back to the negotiating table. I wonder if they will get the hint?
Bernard Kouchner should have stated, that he heard about these allegations and such crime should be condemmed, perpetrators of such heinous acts do not belong in humanity, instead he went into an ego defensive based rebuttal which would alert any criminal psychologist. Bernard you should have learnt from your Neocon mate's mistake, that sort of denial response style don't work to well.
"It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!" (Joe)
-- Oh Joe you're so silly. Punishing journalists because they report "cheap senseless provocations" is so...so...Russian. Why not round up all of these muckraking journalists who dare to kick arse instead of kick it? In fact, let's just censor media altogether. I always knew that you were a true Stalinist at heart hiding behind our country's flag. ;)
PS - I'm sure you know that VOA doesn't stand for Vojvodina out of Austria.
It looks like Monsieur Kouchner thought the Serbs and their friends a lesson.
They will remember that any cheap, senseless provocation will be followed by a powerful and adequate response. Tres bien Monsieur le Ministre!
(Joe, 3 March 2010 01:49)
Gee... I hope you do know who is "VoA" the reporter does represent, don't you? I hope you do not think, VoA is Putin's lap dog. And if VoA asks that question, your "Monsieur le Ministre" is better to be polite. Otherwise someone in the "A" out of "VoA" could mind his style.
In regard of that, "Monsieur le Ministre" is either a prime time idiot or was caught with pants down.
ha ha ha, all the world is laughihng with allegations of serbian side. bravo Kuschner.
(beki, 3 March 2010 09:20)
No, all the world is scratching their head: wow, "VoA" did ask THAT question. Everyone knows whom "VoA" does represent and what country is the "A" letter for (except Joe, maybe) - but no one knows, what weed Kouchner was smoking.
If nothing else I hope he did already learn: Vlora Citaku is Albanian. Or maybe it's a revelation for him...
(Ataman, 3 March 2010 03:25)
I think I was demanding to much yesterday. OK, Joe, let's start over again.
Not just Vlora Citaku is Albanian, but "VoA" radio station (that's the "offending" reporter is working for) is American.
Namely "VoA" stands for "Voice of America". We are never old enough to learn, right? If you do not like the question just call your representative and complain, why does United States employ such reporters.
His reaction was way out of proportion to the question asked. I must admit to being a little shocked.
Its a completely normal, expected question that a journalist would ask following such allegations / investigations, not simply from domestic sources.
Actually Peggy I think you are wrong on this. The very fact that this is reported by B92, Blic and all the media in Serbia would ensure that the question is asked again by Serbian journalists. On the one hand the journalist instinct tells us that such a reaction means there is something there and on the other to insult the journalist profession like that for reporting on an active issue, ensures that journalists organisations and supporters of a free press would also have an interest.
I must admit to having some doubts on this story, but after Kouchner's reaction I wonder...
You just confirm that this sharade is not about justice but your vendetta against the state of Kosovo. That is why you will got even an inch of cooperation from Tirana and Pristina.
(John, 3 March 2010 11:59)
Poland remember hypocrite France in 1939. Our "ally" left us alone and don't help at the time of Hitler's invasion. Mr Kouchner is really good succesor of french FM Georges-Étienne Bonnet from 1938-39, time of Munich Conference and invasion of Poland.
on one hand there are people who are sure that organ harvesting happened, on the other there are people who are sure it didn't happen. the reality is that not a single person who made a comment of this kind on this site knows, so that makes them all look a bit dumb in advance.
on the other hand people got used to using attrocities for propaganda purposes, so it's hardly surprising. denying crimes of your side and exaggerating the crimes of the other side is common even among the people who are sensible enough not to paint an entire ethnic group as war criminals. what a nice game to play.
as for couchner, it just goes to show what happens to western diplomats when they get confronted by tough questions. which hardly ever happens in their home countries. elected officials are treated with way too much respect which makes them look better than they really are. i remember watching the same person on 2 different tv shows. in one he looked like a complete moron. in the other he looked cool. you can imagine which journalists did the better job.
So it is credibility of Bernard Kouchner VS. credibility of Budimir from VoA Ataman? Is that how you want to put it?
(KU, 3 March 2010 18:57)
No, please read again. Budimir from VoA got under "friendly fire". This is considered a disaster in military. Tells us a lot about how "professionally" were things organized by the French. The fact French did mistake the VoA reporter for someone else speaks volumes. Here the entourage of the FM are to blame. The French should care in advance to avoid such embarrassment.
France - like Italy - is not known to be the best organizer. I can't imagine such things would happen if the FM would be from Germany, Singapore or Japan.
On the other hand if I say that "cars made in Japan or Germany have at average better reliability record than the ones made in France or Italy" - this is a triviality every "majstor" between BP and PR will confirm.
I am not talking about the case itself. I am talking about the presumed involvement of Kouchner in it. Yes, I believe that if the Serbian prosecution had any proof that Kouchner was involved, Tadic would know about it. So either Tadic knows but does not care, or Tadic does not know, because the prosecution does not know anything about Kouchner. This means that the journalist and (according to the journalist) the families of the victims heard that Kouchner was involved from somewhere else, or just made it up.
Why he overreacted? We did not hear an explanation from him, of why he overreacted. All we can do is guess why. I choose to look at the simplest explanation, he was being accused of something horrible. Accused, not just asked profesionally, because the question was something like "what was your role?". Other people here choose to believe that he got nervous, because he is involved. That is very difficult to believe, given the history of the man and given his relations with part of the Serbian politicians (it takes a very special relation to be able to put flowers on the grave of Djindjic I believe, but maybe I am wrong?). A certain part of the Serbian media is also choosing to give to their own people the same hard to believe explanation. I do not understand why, maybe just to sell more.
The thing that made me think a bit about his reaction, is his association between the person who accused him and the "bums and murderers". He went from talking in singular to the journalist, "you are sick", to talking in plural about "bums and murderers". That kind of association maybe tells things, given the position he had in Kosovo and the experience he had about how certain things work in Serbia and Kosovo. Maybe he was thinking about those who murdered Djindjic, he had just come from his grave. Maybe he associated those who accuse him about organ trafficking with those who murdered Djindjic. He was in a position to know what Djindjic wanted to do for Serbia and what part of Serbian society wanted him dead and how that part of Serbian society functions. But these are just maybe-s.
The Kosovo Albanian position is not important in this case, it is not related to it, it will not be affected by it. Even in the case those horrible allegations about organ trafficking (in general, not about involvement of Kouchner) are proved true somehow, the Kosovo Albanian position will not be affected, it is founded on the principle of assuring stability in the Balkans, not on organ trafficking. Personally, I truly hope those things did not happen, not because of Albanian or Serbian position, victim or assassin nationality, but because they are just horrible. I do not wish anybody that horrible fate.
"Actually Peggy I think you are wrong on this. The very fact that this is reported by B92, Blic and all the media in Serbia would ensure that the question is asked again by Serbian journalists."
=====================
Strange, then, that Philip Alston, UN special rapporteur on extrajudicial executions has just returned from Tirana bemoaning the complete lack of cooperation from the authorities.
I agree with Ataman, ...and at the same time I am really astonished by the naivety displayed by some writers here!
first of all, there is someone from VoA asking THAT question ...interesting! and who´s being asked? Kouchner! ...not only is that a delicate question posed in front of a french foreign minister, but the best thing at all is his reaction!
instead of being cool, and sovereign, like a politician who has nothing to hide or fear, ... he became angry and loud! and THAT makes him suspicious, indeed.
well, we will see whether his collar is as white as he would like the world to believe.
...but celebrating him as someone who has "given the serbs a lesson" is simply stupid.
If you have had any doubt about lesser “men” being part of ruling the west then Bernard Kouchner removes that uncertainty . However, since he has been paid by the Albanians in the past why would you expect this snail sniffing buffoon to give you a proper answer.
Any country where the military elite are mercenaries says a lot for that state.
KU in a normally functioning democracy there would be no reason why the President would have extra knowledge of a legal case. Perhaps Serbia isn't a functioning democracy but I'm quite sure that Tadic does not familiarise himself with every detail of every particular case / allegation made.
But you did make an interesting point - what would Tadic have done had this occured before the visit to Djindjic's grave was scheduled? Hard to say really. Perhaps Kouchner would have thought twice before flying off the handle like that knowing it could have ramifications?
KU why do you think that Kouchner overeacted like that? And do you think he helped the Kosovo Albanian position by doing so?
KU you and I both hope that people's organs were not harvested. That kind of thing truly does not bare thinking about really but I do believe that such allegations are not a laughing matter, as Kouchner did.
Perhaps the Serbian journalist could have phrased the question differently. We have a fair number of intelligent journalists in Serbia (believe it or not). However, it begs belief that only one asked this question (even if it was in a crass way) - but it is a question that is valid - What is Kouchners position on Karla Del Pontes allegations of organ harvesting that were taken to a yellow house in Albania? Our journalist asked about Kouchners involvement in organ harvesting.
What would Kouchner say to Dick Marty who has looked into the subject to brief European institutions.
Our journalist 'what do you say about the yellow house'? Sadly our journalist didn't seem to know details as to where the house was or to drop in the fact that tribunal investigators visited it, rather he kept repeating yellow house and organ harvesting.
Better is were you aware of these allegations, considering your previous position in Kosovo, and to what end did you attempt to investigate them?
Finally, the tabloid style question - were you in any way involved Mr Kouchner in the covering up of organ harvesting etc...
But lets be realistic about this of course Kouchner did not take part in organ harvesting - the issue is whether in the name of regional stability, placating the local population, fear of former paramilitary leaders, wanting to uphold western policy - call it what you will, that he possessed knowledge / evidence of organ harvesting but burried it.
That isn't so far fetched. As I've stated previously I have read certain secret service reports on Kosovo and the extent of complicity on the part of internationals with local leaders is quite unbelievable. Principle has very little to do with their role I can't say the situation on the ground today, but I know it was like this only a few years ago.
...but celebrating him as someone who has "given the serbs a lesson" is simply stupid.
(Jovan, 3 March 2010 14:46)
Yes, usually swearing and giving reporters / public servants hard time calling their momma and enumerating her body parts in public is bad karma. Not even close to "giving a lesson".
I don't support any side but I'm just informing you that the public TV station of Kosovo RTK gave a false translation of this case. And this was the last time I watch news on RTK, I'm Albanian myself but in such scandals one have to be realistic, SHAME ON RTK
What Kouchner was reacting to is something he perceived as a personal accusation.
His forced laughter was merely a hysterical reaction of a man caught off guard.
The thing that surprises me is this times and again heard drivel about “Serbian propaganda” referring to reported organ harvesting and trafficking.
Whatever the cause of this denial, the initial information about organ harvesting came from Carla del Ponte who was once cheered by anti-Serb nationalist fanatics pretty much like they cheer Kouchner now.
TV B92 which further investigated these reports and launched a series of documentaries about the “yellow house” is a broadcaster which enjoys a wide support of foreign embassies and NGOs as well as ethnic minorities including Albanians and is often perceived as anti-Serbian by Serb nationalists.
Last year TV B92 CEO Veran Matic received the Knight of the French Legion of Honor medal.
The journalist Nikčević who posed a question to Kouchner is actually a Voice of America correspondent.
So I really don’t see any reason for such imputations as “Serbian propaganda” aside from tribal xenophobic paranoid urges.
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