I wonder what Mr Kouchner will say if the Algerian and Moroccan minorities in France reach such large numbers that they start proclaiming little Sharia states across France.
Will that also be irreversable and a "done deal"? What goes around, comes around.
Albania was created at the insistance of US President Woodrow Wilson after WW I with great opposition from then Serbian foreign minister Nikola Pasic as well as French opposition. Its no secret that per-capita, Serbia paid the highest price with close to 20% of Serbia's population dying to protect little Serbia from being invaded by Austro-Hungaria, Bulgaria an d Germany.
Albania is an artificial country created from the remnants of the Turkish empire and never with the national will, fortitute and unity to fight for it's own freedom like the Serbs, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians did against five hundred years of Ottoman rule.
After this, Albania became a colony of Italy, a colony of the Soviet Union and now a colony of the United States of America.
(jugoslavija, 4 March 2010 00:42)
Oh wow, well Albania was created by the insistance of USA after the WWI although its borders were recognized in 1913, but Serbia was not created upon the gracious help of Russia and France....
Come on who are you kidding. If there is a non-entity in the Balkans, this is Serbia, or southern Russians, very little cultural distincions.
Albania needed a strong and big ally cause you already had some, Russia and all slavic and orthodox nations. You were a puppet long before Albania. Albanians were not slavic nor orthodox and even though they stayed neutral during the WWI your shovinist policies wanted to tear it apart as you yourself mention, and you wonder what do they hate Serbia, not to mention the barbaric attrocities comitted against the civilians durin last century.
You broke off with Russia because Tito was smart, not cause Serbia was "its own country" - but Tito was not a Serb, and just like Tito cut ties with Russia so did Albanias 10 years later, in a even more demostrative way.
When Albanians were fighting the Turks you were sleeping in bed with them, and marrying your women to Ottomans to play it safe. Who are you kidding. Read the history, and tell me when did Albanians ever subdue to the Turkish rule, even though they became muslim to survive Greek and Slavic shovinism, turks never had their way with Albanians, indeed Albanians were one of the most rebelious nation against the Turks, from Scanderbeg all the way to the fall of the empire.
Serbs and Croats tribes migrated to Europe in or about the 6th and 7th century and have inhabited the lands in Southeastern Europe.
It is indidious to presume that "Albania" is the owner of the so called "Illyrian history and empire". An equaly absurdity is claiming that the Serb and Croat tribes are tied somehow to the Roman Empire.
Albania was created at the insistance of US President Woodrow Wilson after WW I with great opposition from then Serbian foreign minister Nikola Pasic as well as French opposition. Its no secret that per-capita, Serbia paid the highest price with close to 20% of Serbia's population dying to protect little Serbia from being invaded by Austro-Hungaria, Bulgaria an d Germany.
Albania is an artificial country created from the remnants of the Turkish empire and never with the national will, fortitute and unity to fight for it's own freedom like the Serbs, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians did against five hundred years of Ottoman rule.
After this, Albania became a colony of Italy, a colony of the Soviet Union and now a colony of the United States of America.
Sreten I hope you're not making such remarks about me.I don't need a doctor's help and certainly I don't want help from a doctor who might give me insensitive or unprofessional advice.I'll admit to you that I'm angry at Jason but I'm not yelling at him. So please Sreten have the decency to understand how I feel.Thank You.
What is your gosh darn problem?! I'm sorry if my comments appear boring but that doesn't justify your rudeness to me. Additionally you're the one who's writing nonsense by asking me how much I get paid to write what you define as nonsense.Finally my age is not your business and also if you're going to be rude and freak out with me than it's best to leave me alone,alright?!
so the point is that I was still residing in Halifax at the time and if by chance these Kosovar drivers had driven past or by me I would have cheered them on just to congratulate them.Oh by the way,back in 2006,I was told by the Albanian-Canadian Community Association that the Halifax area has just 15 families from Kosovo.
(Nadeem, 3 March 2010 01:55)
Do you get paid to write nonsense here? First you opine about your dating choices and now you go on and on and on about how you "would have" liked to cheer for Kosovo Albanians in Halifax?!
My message to pro-independence Kosovars is that my belief that Kosovo should attain independence is irreversible so far.
In a relevant matter when I viewed on You Tube the pro-independence Kosovar-Albanians celebrating their success a few videos in particular I viewed had shown Kosovar nationals back in 2008 who reside in my former university hometown (the eastern Canadian city of Halifax which is located in the province of Nova Scotia)celebrating independence.In a few of these videos I noticed a convoy of honking vehicles being driven by pro-independence Kosovars who evidently were honking their vehicles out of joy so the point is that I was still residing in Halifax at the time and if by chance these Kosovar drivers had driven past or by me I would have cheered them on just to congratulate them.Oh by the way,back in 2006,I was told by the Albanian-Canadian Community Association that the Halifax area has just 15 families from Kosovo.
No one has taken me up on my bet. Lets make a fund where we all put 50$ and these would be the conditions
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
(UNE, 2 March 2010 13:30)
50$ for that by the end of 2010 will come 10 more new recognitions ,and also one very expensive French Champagne that never will came any withdraw of recognition .
Cheers !!!
-- Ah, at last a worthy challenge! I like it UNE! But if I may modify the rules a little bit? Kosovo needs to get 10 *meaningful* recognitions. Paupa New Guinea (which I'm surprised hasn't recognized yet) isn't going to really change the dynamics. Let's shoot for some heavy hitters in Africa, Latin America, and even Europe (any of the Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
(Mike, 2 March 2010 15:39)
Yes But i dont think that any of the "fantastic" 5 are really better than Papua or Malawi or any one else
If you are serious email me at unengafieri@hotmail.com we can set it up. No need for "" frienldy relations. Whether we like it or not we are neighboors.
Funny, how can the K Albaniacs lose something they don't have, i.e., independence? There is nothing to reverse in KiM, because it was unilateral, there was no agreement, get it Kouchner? The more important topic is, who got the organs, Kouchner?
(winston, 2 March 2010 17:46)
Nothing is "irreversible", and "never say never" Mr. French FM. The only thing that will be difficult to reverse, is the horrific situation that the West created in KiM, and are now looking for the Serbs to help them solve. Kouchner has been playing kissy kissy with the Albanians for a very long time - way before any bullets flew in Kosovo. This guy should be investigated for any possible misconduct by a UN official. I'll never forget that picture of him kissing some old Albanian wearing that little white hat of theirs. The photo said it all. Show this guy the door.
If the US, UK, France, Germany, and Italy have their way, "independence" (whatever that ends up amounting to) may be irreversible, but negotiations, particularly in light of Bernie's doublespeak, are becoming increasingly unavoidable.
Funny, how can the K Albaniacs lose something they don't have, i.e., independence? There is nothing to reverse in KiM, because it was unilateral, there was no agreement, get it Kouchner? The more important topic is, who got the organs, Kouchner?
Why then they put so much pressure over Serbia if they say it's irreversible.
(Bez_Cenzure, 2 March 2010 16:45)
--
Because they can't admit independence is irreversibly blocked by Russia, China, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Romania and Slovakia. Insisting this is irreversibly in reality is maintaining the status-quo.
Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
(Mike, 2 March 2010 15:39)
Mike, just read a bit of kouchner track record and involvement in so many part of the world (mainly Ruanda)and you'll have the answer to your questions.
Wondering how he can still sleep... even during his involvement in the doctors without borders he was a controversial person!
I was just wondering if so called independence is irreversible why the hell this sentence is repeated over and over again. Why then they put so much pressure over Serbia if they say it's irreversible.
After the ICJ rules against the UDI, Serbia should call for a UN General Assembly vote to kick the us, france, and britain out of the Security Council. Nothing is irreversible nor permanent.
I must say that after reading PRN´s comment here, I was reminded that many of our dear albanian friends here are writing their comments here solely on the basis of sheer hope and illusion.
they very desperately want to believe that Germany and the USA and Britain "were always" their " allies".
quite passionate though, but nevertheless also quite laughable.
as Princip has put it very right yesterday: " if win-lose is the option, you should not believe that Serbia will be the loser".
and all you hopes and illusions are built on sand, my dear albanian friends...
what a french diplomat says today, does not have to mean that this will last forever...
you know, the french once told the whole world that the french colonies will always be a part of france...
and today?
my dear albanian friends, if it is a relief for you, go on writing funny comments! you won´t change the future developments with your comments, but maybe it will stop you desecrating orthodox christian churches and cemeteries in southern Serbia.
not to speak of the terror against the remaining Serbs there.
"Independence 'irreversible'". Yes, perhaps if you keep saying it every 48 - 72 hours people might start believing it. Or perhaps you need to click your heels three times Dorothy?
In all seriousness, compared with Kouchner's speech in Belgrade yesterday in which he reiterated Serbia not being required to recognize Kosovo as an independent country (and thus legitimize dozens of other countries not recognizing in the process), Kouchner either loves to speak out of both sides of his mouth, or he really regards Balkan leaders as a bunch of idiots. I mean if after yesterday's indirect affirmation of the status quo (internal partition and perpetuation of contested and limited sovereignty), the fact that he's greeted "like an old friend" by Pristina's clan leaders either attests to their much diminished expectations two years on, or their complete lack of intelligence. What's the point of being supported by the strongest democracies in the world, as we hear here so many times, if said countries are doing such a half-@ssed job promoting your newly granted sovereignty? And what's the point of demanding Belgrade treat you like a sovereign entity when you need the help of other people to advertise your relevance? Just because your Aunt Bertha thinks you're cool doesn't guarantee the rest of the playground will cede the swingset to you.
"If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun." (UNE)
-- Ah, at last a worthy challenge! I like it UNE! But if I may modify the rules a little bit? Kosovo needs to get 10 *meaningful* recognitions. Paupa New Guinea (which I'm surprised hasn't recognized yet) isn't going to really change the dynamics. Let's shoot for some heavy hitters in Africa, Latin America, and even Europe (any of the Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
Kouchner, independence of this fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' is irreversibly blocked by a Russian veto. Read my lips, IRREVERSIBLY BLOCKED. :) Have a nice day on holy Serbian soil Monsieur.
Cheers!!
Cheers,
It is quite reversible, Mr. Kouchner. As is the recognition of illegally Communist re-drawn Yugoslav federal and provincial borders. I believe the EU has condemned Communism as a criminal movement. Did it not? How does this apply differently to Serbia especially when regarding borders?
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
(UNE, 2 March 2010 13:30)
UNE,
This is probably the best post here so far. But the evil is in detail. What is the Albanian proposal regarding the brand? On Serbian side there are so many choices.... Let's limit it to 20 Euro. Everything more than that is rarely worth the money.
Under these conditions I am afraid our side is rather a winner. Of course you can pull out a Jolly Joker like Baywood Ruby Cabernet from California à 1.7 Euro/bottle from Lidl, but that's maybe not fair because it's an exclusive export. As the answer I would pull out the Habana rum from Cuba and make everyone from the States cry out in frustration - it is banned from America and we will win hands down.
You can not be a state that is recognized by less than 1/3 of the world... its just not possible...
Montenegro was recognized by the entire world in 2 days...
dont think that time is with you, because as time passes less and less will care about you. And the US and EU will collapse
Funny since Sarkozy said 'nothing is irreversible'. Come on Sarko, kick Kouchner out. De Gaulle would be turning in his grave to see France's policy towards Serbia today.
A free democratic elected government representing serbians and not €USA, should immediatly recognize Corsika, Northern Basque Country (currently occupied by france), Thaiti, Caledonia Guayana and a number of islands un the carribean as "irreversible".
(Go east!, 2 March 2010 12:23)
If independent these places Independence could be reversed unlike Kosovo's. Also the majority of these places don't even want independence, I think the Basque country is the only place which actually wants independence. New Caledonia wants independence and they are set to have a referendum on independence in 2018 and France will recognise them, so don't worry lad. Besides they need to declare independence before Serbia can recognise them. It would do Kosovo the world of good if Serbia were to recognise them.
No one has taken me up on my bet. Lets make a fund where we all put 50$ and these would be the conditions
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
The French should mind their own business given the appalling consequences of their interference in various parts of the world. Think of Vietnam, Lebanon, Rwanda etc. Not a proud record.
Go East, if and when Corsican, the northern Basque Country, "Tahiti" (Tahiti's only part of French Polynesia), New Caledonia, and/or Guyana actually having independence-supporting populations voting for independence by very wide margins, that'd be great. Isn't the idea of recognizing the independence of every territory that achieves independence in a lawful framework, regardless of the hostility of the erstwhile parent nation, a good one?
A free democratic elected government representing serbians and not €USA, should immediatly recognize Corsika, Northern Basque Country (currently occupied by france), Thaiti, Caledonia Guayana and a number of islands un the carribean as "irreversible".
Whao what a surprise! I thought the french would come out and recall the recognition, i mean seriously people. Nothing is ever goin to change the current status, kosovo will never be recognized as a country. We only need Russia and Spain, you can be assured they will never recognize. Russians are our brothers and Spain have their own problems with rebels (basque) let's all agree that Kosovo isn't getting anywhere soon. It's back to the table for the rebels.
Of course no-one in politics back-tracks their stupid decisions by reversing something. They merely go ahead with it and merely pay very little attention to it. Believe most countries that supported this abomination would be ruing the day they started it. That included the US but they can't reverse it in order to save face.
In the interest of our sides, and in the interest of stability, regional cooperation and our European perspective, to leave the past with Serbia behind. The status question has ended and I believe that the whole world knows this," Thaci said
B92
On the contrary,the whole world knows that kosovo is still a province of Serbia.
It suffices to point out again that two-thirds of the world, including its two biggest nations of the UN secutity council, do not recognise this Balkan satrapy, and of the countries that do, most are NATO members or US poodles.
Kosovo is not accepted now by the non-western world as a state and won't be accepted
in the future.
Proud and happy that UK and France repaired the mistake done in 1912/3, thus deciding that Albanians ought to re-gain the lost land taken (from motherland Albania) by Serbia with the help of excatly these countries about a century ago.
Some wise Serbs are reasling that writing ludicrous history in early 20th century has had ridiculous consequences for Serbs themselves. They ALWAYS (even now) hesitate or fail to explicitly note that Serbian roots are in the Carpathians Mountains, and that from the role of guest in the Balkan to 'owner' of your host's land, is NOT a progress BUT rather a preposterous regress.
World has INDED realised the mistakes of the past. The USA and Germany were were practically ALWAYS our allies but did not interfere much in the past. They showed their will and determination to be decisive when it count most for International Justice - in 1998-9. Italy, Japan, Canada, Australia...etc has joined the team too.
What Russia, China, Iran, Cuba says is less important that rainfall last autumn.
No one has taken me up on my bet. Lets make a fund where we all put 50$ and these would be the conditions
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
Proud and happy that UK and France repaired the mistake done in 1912/3, thus deciding that Albanians ought to re-gain the lost land taken (from motherland Albania) by Serbia with the help of excatly these countries about a century ago.
Some wise Serbs are reasling that writing ludicrous history in early 20th century has had ridiculous consequences for Serbs themselves. They ALWAYS (even now) hesitate or fail to explicitly note that Serbian roots are in the Carpathians Mountains, and that from the role of guest in the Balkan to 'owner' of your host's land, is NOT a progress BUT rather a preposterous regress.
World has INDED realised the mistakes of the past. The USA and Germany were were practically ALWAYS our allies but did not interfere much in the past. They showed their will and determination to be decisive when it count most for International Justice - in 1998-9. Italy, Japan, Canada, Australia...etc has joined the team too.
What Russia, China, Iran, Cuba says is less important that rainfall last autumn.
In the interest of our sides, and in the interest of stability, regional cooperation and our European perspective, to leave the past with Serbia behind. The status question has ended and I believe that the whole world knows this," Thaci said
B92
On the contrary,the whole world knows that kosovo is still a province of Serbia.
It suffices to point out again that two-thirds of the world, including its two biggest nations of the UN secutity council, do not recognise this Balkan satrapy, and of the countries that do, most are NATO members or US poodles.
Kosovo is not accepted now by the non-western world as a state and won't be accepted
in the future.
Kouchner, independence of this fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' is irreversibly blocked by a Russian veto. Read my lips, IRREVERSIBLY BLOCKED. :) Have a nice day on holy Serbian soil Monsieur.
Cheers!!
Cheers,
A free democratic elected government representing serbians and not €USA, should immediatly recognize Corsika, Northern Basque Country (currently occupied by france), Thaiti, Caledonia Guayana and a number of islands un the carribean as "irreversible".
(Go east!, 2 March 2010 12:23)
If independent these places Independence could be reversed unlike Kosovo's. Also the majority of these places don't even want independence, I think the Basque country is the only place which actually wants independence. New Caledonia wants independence and they are set to have a referendum on independence in 2018 and France will recognise them, so don't worry lad. Besides they need to declare independence before Serbia can recognise them. It would do Kosovo the world of good if Serbia were to recognise them.
Funny since Sarkozy said 'nothing is irreversible'. Come on Sarko, kick Kouchner out. De Gaulle would be turning in his grave to see France's policy towards Serbia today.
The French should mind their own business given the appalling consequences of their interference in various parts of the world. Think of Vietnam, Lebanon, Rwanda etc. Not a proud record.
Why then they put so much pressure over Serbia if they say it's irreversible.
(Bez_Cenzure, 2 March 2010 16:45)
--
Because they can't admit independence is irreversibly blocked by Russia, China, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Romania and Slovakia. Insisting this is irreversibly in reality is maintaining the status-quo.
Funny, how can the K Albaniacs lose something they don't have, i.e., independence? There is nothing to reverse in KiM, because it was unilateral, there was no agreement, get it Kouchner? The more important topic is, who got the organs, Kouchner?
If the US, UK, France, Germany, and Italy have their way, "independence" (whatever that ends up amounting to) may be irreversible, but negotiations, particularly in light of Bernie's doublespeak, are becoming increasingly unavoidable.
Nothing is "irreversible", and "never say never" Mr. French FM. The only thing that will be difficult to reverse, is the horrific situation that the West created in KiM, and are now looking for the Serbs to help them solve. Kouchner has been playing kissy kissy with the Albanians for a very long time - way before any bullets flew in Kosovo. This guy should be investigated for any possible misconduct by a UN official. I'll never forget that picture of him kissing some old Albanian wearing that little white hat of theirs. The photo said it all. Show this guy the door.
Of course no-one in politics back-tracks their stupid decisions by reversing something. They merely go ahead with it and merely pay very little attention to it. Believe most countries that supported this abomination would be ruing the day they started it. That included the US but they can't reverse it in order to save face.
A free democratic elected government representing serbians and not €USA, should immediatly recognize Corsika, Northern Basque Country (currently occupied by france), Thaiti, Caledonia Guayana and a number of islands un the carribean as "irreversible".
Whao what a surprise! I thought the french would come out and recall the recognition, i mean seriously people. Nothing is ever goin to change the current status, kosovo will never be recognized as a country. We only need Russia and Spain, you can be assured they will never recognize. Russians are our brothers and Spain have their own problems with rebels (basque) let's all agree that Kosovo isn't getting anywhere soon. It's back to the table for the rebels.
You can not be a state that is recognized by less than 1/3 of the world... its just not possible...
Montenegro was recognized by the entire world in 2 days...
dont think that time is with you, because as time passes less and less will care about you. And the US and EU will collapse
-- Ah, at last a worthy challenge! I like it UNE! But if I may modify the rules a little bit? Kosovo needs to get 10 *meaningful* recognitions. Paupa New Guinea (which I'm surprised hasn't recognized yet) isn't going to really change the dynamics. Let's shoot for some heavy hitters in Africa, Latin America, and even Europe (any of the Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
(Mike, 2 March 2010 15:39)
Yes But i dont think that any of the "fantastic" 5 are really better than Papua or Malawi or any one else
If you are serious email me at unengafieri@hotmail.com we can set it up. No need for "" frienldy relations. Whether we like it or not we are neighboors.
Funny, how can the K Albaniacs lose something they don't have, i.e., independence? There is nothing to reverse in KiM, because it was unilateral, there was no agreement, get it Kouchner? The more important topic is, who got the organs, Kouchner?
(winston, 2 March 2010 17:46)
I must say that after reading PRN´s comment here, I was reminded that many of our dear albanian friends here are writing their comments here solely on the basis of sheer hope and illusion.
they very desperately want to believe that Germany and the USA and Britain "were always" their " allies".
quite passionate though, but nevertheless also quite laughable.
as Princip has put it very right yesterday: " if win-lose is the option, you should not believe that Serbia will be the loser".
and all you hopes and illusions are built on sand, my dear albanian friends...
what a french diplomat says today, does not have to mean that this will last forever...
you know, the french once told the whole world that the french colonies will always be a part of france...
and today?
my dear albanian friends, if it is a relief for you, go on writing funny comments! you won´t change the future developments with your comments, but maybe it will stop you desecrating orthodox christian churches and cemeteries in southern Serbia.
not to speak of the terror against the remaining Serbs there.
I was just wondering if so called independence is irreversible why the hell this sentence is repeated over and over again. Why then they put so much pressure over Serbia if they say it's irreversible.
Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
(Mike, 2 March 2010 15:39)
Mike, just read a bit of kouchner track record and involvement in so many part of the world (mainly Ruanda)and you'll have the answer to your questions.
Wondering how he can still sleep... even during his involvement in the doctors without borders he was a controversial person!
Go East, if and when Corsican, the northern Basque Country, "Tahiti" (Tahiti's only part of French Polynesia), New Caledonia, and/or Guyana actually having independence-supporting populations voting for independence by very wide margins, that'd be great. Isn't the idea of recognizing the independence of every territory that achieves independence in a lawful framework, regardless of the hostility of the erstwhile parent nation, a good one?
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
(UNE, 2 March 2010 13:30)
UNE,
This is probably the best post here so far. But the evil is in detail. What is the Albanian proposal regarding the brand? On Serbian side there are so many choices.... Let's limit it to 20 Euro. Everything more than that is rarely worth the money.
Under these conditions I am afraid our side is rather a winner. Of course you can pull out a Jolly Joker like Baywood Ruby Cabernet from California à 1.7 Euro/bottle from Lidl, but that's maybe not fair because it's an exclusive export. As the answer I would pull out the Habana rum from Cuba and make everyone from the States cry out in frustration - it is banned from America and we will win hands down.
After the ICJ rules against the UDI, Serbia should call for a UN General Assembly vote to kick the us, france, and britain out of the Security Council. Nothing is irreversible nor permanent.
It is quite reversible, Mr. Kouchner. As is the recognition of illegally Communist re-drawn Yugoslav federal and provincial borders. I believe the EU has condemned Communism as a criminal movement. Did it not? How does this apply differently to Serbia especially when regarding borders?
"Independence 'irreversible'". Yes, perhaps if you keep saying it every 48 - 72 hours people might start believing it. Or perhaps you need to click your heels three times Dorothy?
In all seriousness, compared with Kouchner's speech in Belgrade yesterday in which he reiterated Serbia not being required to recognize Kosovo as an independent country (and thus legitimize dozens of other countries not recognizing in the process), Kouchner either loves to speak out of both sides of his mouth, or he really regards Balkan leaders as a bunch of idiots. I mean if after yesterday's indirect affirmation of the status quo (internal partition and perpetuation of contested and limited sovereignty), the fact that he's greeted "like an old friend" by Pristina's clan leaders either attests to their much diminished expectations two years on, or their complete lack of intelligence. What's the point of being supported by the strongest democracies in the world, as we hear here so many times, if said countries are doing such a half-@ssed job promoting your newly granted sovereignty? And what's the point of demanding Belgrade treat you like a sovereign entity when you need the help of other people to advertise your relevance? Just because your Aunt Bertha thinks you're cool doesn't guarantee the rest of the playground will cede the swingset to you.
"If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun." (UNE)
-- Ah, at last a worthy challenge! I like it UNE! But if I may modify the rules a little bit? Kosovo needs to get 10 *meaningful* recognitions. Paupa New Guinea (which I'm surprised hasn't recognized yet) isn't going to really change the dynamics. Let's shoot for some heavy hitters in Africa, Latin America, and even Europe (any of the Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
Albania was created at the insistance of US President Woodrow Wilson after WW I with great opposition from then Serbian foreign minister Nikola Pasic as well as French opposition. Its no secret that per-capita, Serbia paid the highest price with close to 20% of Serbia's population dying to protect little Serbia from being invaded by Austro-Hungaria, Bulgaria an d Germany.
Albania is an artificial country created from the remnants of the Turkish empire and never with the national will, fortitute and unity to fight for it's own freedom like the Serbs, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians did against five hundred years of Ottoman rule.
After this, Albania became a colony of Italy, a colony of the Soviet Union and now a colony of the United States of America.
(jugoslavija, 4 March 2010 00:42)
Oh wow, well Albania was created by the insistance of USA after the WWI although its borders were recognized in 1913, but Serbia was not created upon the gracious help of Russia and France....
Come on who are you kidding. If there is a non-entity in the Balkans, this is Serbia, or southern Russians, very little cultural distincions.
Albania needed a strong and big ally cause you already had some, Russia and all slavic and orthodox nations. You were a puppet long before Albania. Albanians were not slavic nor orthodox and even though they stayed neutral during the WWI your shovinist policies wanted to tear it apart as you yourself mention, and you wonder what do they hate Serbia, not to mention the barbaric attrocities comitted against the civilians durin last century.
You broke off with Russia because Tito was smart, not cause Serbia was "its own country" - but Tito was not a Serb, and just like Tito cut ties with Russia so did Albanias 10 years later, in a even more demostrative way.
When Albanians were fighting the Turks you were sleeping in bed with them, and marrying your women to Ottomans to play it safe. Who are you kidding. Read the history, and tell me when did Albanians ever subdue to the Turkish rule, even though they became muslim to survive Greek and Slavic shovinism, turks never had their way with Albanians, indeed Albanians were one of the most rebelious nation against the Turks, from Scanderbeg all the way to the fall of the empire.
My message to pro-independence Kosovars is that my belief that Kosovo should attain independence is irreversible so far.
In a relevant matter when I viewed on You Tube the pro-independence Kosovar-Albanians celebrating their success a few videos in particular I viewed had shown Kosovar nationals back in 2008 who reside in my former university hometown (the eastern Canadian city of Halifax which is located in the province of Nova Scotia)celebrating independence.In a few of these videos I noticed a convoy of honking vehicles being driven by pro-independence Kosovars who evidently were honking their vehicles out of joy so the point is that I was still residing in Halifax at the time and if by chance these Kosovar drivers had driven past or by me I would have cheered them on just to congratulate them.Oh by the way,back in 2006,I was told by the Albanian-Canadian Community Association that the Halifax area has just 15 families from Kosovo.
What is your gosh darn problem?! I'm sorry if my comments appear boring but that doesn't justify your rudeness to me. Additionally you're the one who's writing nonsense by asking me how much I get paid to write what you define as nonsense.Finally my age is not your business and also if you're going to be rude and freak out with me than it's best to leave me alone,alright?!
No one has taken me up on my bet. Lets make a fund where we all put 50$ and these would be the conditions
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
(UNE, 2 March 2010 13:30)
50$ for that by the end of 2010 will come 10 more new recognitions ,and also one very expensive French Champagne that never will came any withdraw of recognition .
Cheers !!!
Sreten I hope you're not making such remarks about me.I don't need a doctor's help and certainly I don't want help from a doctor who might give me insensitive or unprofessional advice.I'll admit to you that I'm angry at Jason but I'm not yelling at him. So please Sreten have the decency to understand how I feel.Thank You.
Serbs and Croats tribes migrated to Europe in or about the 6th and 7th century and have inhabited the lands in Southeastern Europe.
It is indidious to presume that "Albania" is the owner of the so called "Illyrian history and empire". An equaly absurdity is claiming that the Serb and Croat tribes are tied somehow to the Roman Empire.
Albania was created at the insistance of US President Woodrow Wilson after WW I with great opposition from then Serbian foreign minister Nikola Pasic as well as French opposition. Its no secret that per-capita, Serbia paid the highest price with close to 20% of Serbia's population dying to protect little Serbia from being invaded by Austro-Hungaria, Bulgaria an d Germany.
Albania is an artificial country created from the remnants of the Turkish empire and never with the national will, fortitute and unity to fight for it's own freedom like the Serbs, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians did against five hundred years of Ottoman rule.
After this, Albania became a colony of Italy, a colony of the Soviet Union and now a colony of the United States of America.
so the point is that I was still residing in Halifax at the time and if by chance these Kosovar drivers had driven past or by me I would have cheered them on just to congratulate them.Oh by the way,back in 2006,I was told by the Albanian-Canadian Community Association that the Halifax area has just 15 families from Kosovo.
(Nadeem, 3 March 2010 01:55)
Do you get paid to write nonsense here? First you opine about your dating choices and now you go on and on and on about how you "would have" liked to cheer for Kosovo Albanians in Halifax?!
I wonder what Mr Kouchner will say if the Algerian and Moroccan minorities in France reach such large numbers that they start proclaiming little Sharia states across France.
Will that also be irreversable and a "done deal"? What goes around, comes around.
The French should mind their own business given the appalling consequences of their interference in various parts of the world. Think of Vietnam, Lebanon, Rwanda etc. Not a proud record.
Kouchner, independence of this fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' is irreversibly blocked by a Russian veto. Read my lips, IRREVERSIBLY BLOCKED. :) Have a nice day on holy Serbian soil Monsieur.
Cheers!!
Cheers,
Nothing is "irreversible", and "never say never" Mr. French FM. The only thing that will be difficult to reverse, is the horrific situation that the West created in KiM, and are now looking for the Serbs to help them solve. Kouchner has been playing kissy kissy with the Albanians for a very long time - way before any bullets flew in Kosovo. This guy should be investigated for any possible misconduct by a UN official. I'll never forget that picture of him kissing some old Albanian wearing that little white hat of theirs. The photo said it all. Show this guy the door.
Why then they put so much pressure over Serbia if they say it's irreversible.
(Bez_Cenzure, 2 March 2010 16:45)
--
Because they can't admit independence is irreversibly blocked by Russia, China, Spain, Greece, Cyprus, Romania and Slovakia. Insisting this is irreversibly in reality is maintaining the status-quo.
I must say that after reading PRN´s comment here, I was reminded that many of our dear albanian friends here are writing their comments here solely on the basis of sheer hope and illusion.
they very desperately want to believe that Germany and the USA and Britain "were always" their " allies".
quite passionate though, but nevertheless also quite laughable.
as Princip has put it very right yesterday: " if win-lose is the option, you should not believe that Serbia will be the loser".
and all you hopes and illusions are built on sand, my dear albanian friends...
what a french diplomat says today, does not have to mean that this will last forever...
you know, the french once told the whole world that the french colonies will always be a part of france...
and today?
my dear albanian friends, if it is a relief for you, go on writing funny comments! you won´t change the future developments with your comments, but maybe it will stop you desecrating orthodox christian churches and cemeteries in southern Serbia.
not to speak of the terror against the remaining Serbs there.
Funny, how can the K Albaniacs lose something they don't have, i.e., independence? There is nothing to reverse in KiM, because it was unilateral, there was no agreement, get it Kouchner? The more important topic is, who got the organs, Kouchner?
You can not be a state that is recognized by less than 1/3 of the world... its just not possible...
Montenegro was recognized by the entire world in 2 days...
dont think that time is with you, because as time passes less and less will care about you. And the US and EU will collapse
Proud and happy that UK and France repaired the mistake done in 1912/3, thus deciding that Albanians ought to re-gain the lost land taken (from motherland Albania) by Serbia with the help of excatly these countries about a century ago.
Some wise Serbs are reasling that writing ludicrous history in early 20th century has had ridiculous consequences for Serbs themselves. They ALWAYS (even now) hesitate or fail to explicitly note that Serbian roots are in the Carpathians Mountains, and that from the role of guest in the Balkan to 'owner' of your host's land, is NOT a progress BUT rather a preposterous regress.
World has INDED realised the mistakes of the past. The USA and Germany were were practically ALWAYS our allies but did not interfere much in the past. They showed their will and determination to be decisive when it count most for International Justice - in 1998-9. Italy, Japan, Canada, Australia...etc has joined the team too.
What Russia, China, Iran, Cuba says is less important that rainfall last autumn.
If the US, UK, France, Germany, and Italy have their way, "independence" (whatever that ends up amounting to) may be irreversible, but negotiations, particularly in light of Bernie's doublespeak, are becoming increasingly unavoidable.
It is quite reversible, Mr. Kouchner. As is the recognition of illegally Communist re-drawn Yugoslav federal and provincial borders. I believe the EU has condemned Communism as a criminal movement. Did it not? How does this apply differently to Serbia especially when regarding borders?
I was just wondering if so called independence is irreversible why the hell this sentence is repeated over and over again. Why then they put so much pressure over Serbia if they say it's irreversible.
In the interest of our sides, and in the interest of stability, regional cooperation and our European perspective, to leave the past with Serbia behind. The status question has ended and I believe that the whole world knows this," Thaci said
B92
On the contrary,the whole world knows that kosovo is still a province of Serbia.
It suffices to point out again that two-thirds of the world, including its two biggest nations of the UN secutity council, do not recognise this Balkan satrapy, and of the countries that do, most are NATO members or US poodles.
Kosovo is not accepted now by the non-western world as a state and won't be accepted
in the future.
Whao what a surprise! I thought the french would come out and recall the recognition, i mean seriously people. Nothing is ever goin to change the current status, kosovo will never be recognized as a country. We only need Russia and Spain, you can be assured they will never recognize. Russians are our brothers and Spain have their own problems with rebels (basque) let's all agree that Kosovo isn't getting anywhere soon. It's back to the table for the rebels.
Funny since Sarkozy said 'nothing is irreversible'. Come on Sarko, kick Kouchner out. De Gaulle would be turning in his grave to see France's policy towards Serbia today.
A free democratic elected government representing serbians and not €USA, should immediatly recognize Corsika, Northern Basque Country (currently occupied by france), Thaiti, Caledonia Guayana and a number of islands un the carribean as "irreversible".
After the ICJ rules against the UDI, Serbia should call for a UN General Assembly vote to kick the us, france, and britain out of the Security Council. Nothing is irreversible nor permanent.
Funny, how can the K Albaniacs lose something they don't have, i.e., independence? There is nothing to reverse in KiM, because it was unilateral, there was no agreement, get it Kouchner? The more important topic is, who got the organs, Kouchner?
(winston, 2 March 2010 17:46)
Of course no-one in politics back-tracks their stupid decisions by reversing something. They merely go ahead with it and merely pay very little attention to it. Believe most countries that supported this abomination would be ruing the day they started it. That included the US but they can't reverse it in order to save face.
A free democratic elected government representing serbians and not €USA, should immediatly recognize Corsika, Northern Basque Country (currently occupied by france), Thaiti, Caledonia Guayana and a number of islands un the carribean as "irreversible".
(Go east!, 2 March 2010 12:23)
If independent these places Independence could be reversed unlike Kosovo's. Also the majority of these places don't even want independence, I think the Basque country is the only place which actually wants independence. New Caledonia wants independence and they are set to have a referendum on independence in 2018 and France will recognise them, so don't worry lad. Besides they need to declare independence before Serbia can recognise them. It would do Kosovo the world of good if Serbia were to recognise them.
"Independence 'irreversible'". Yes, perhaps if you keep saying it every 48 - 72 hours people might start believing it. Or perhaps you need to click your heels three times Dorothy?
In all seriousness, compared with Kouchner's speech in Belgrade yesterday in which he reiterated Serbia not being required to recognize Kosovo as an independent country (and thus legitimize dozens of other countries not recognizing in the process), Kouchner either loves to speak out of both sides of his mouth, or he really regards Balkan leaders as a bunch of idiots. I mean if after yesterday's indirect affirmation of the status quo (internal partition and perpetuation of contested and limited sovereignty), the fact that he's greeted "like an old friend" by Pristina's clan leaders either attests to their much diminished expectations two years on, or their complete lack of intelligence. What's the point of being supported by the strongest democracies in the world, as we hear here so many times, if said countries are doing such a half-@ssed job promoting your newly granted sovereignty? And what's the point of demanding Belgrade treat you like a sovereign entity when you need the help of other people to advertise your relevance? Just because your Aunt Bertha thinks you're cool doesn't guarantee the rest of the playground will cede the swingset to you.
"If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun." (UNE)
-- Ah, at last a worthy challenge! I like it UNE! But if I may modify the rules a little bit? Kosovo needs to get 10 *meaningful* recognitions. Paupa New Guinea (which I'm surprised hasn't recognized yet) isn't going to really change the dynamics. Let's shoot for some heavy hitters in Africa, Latin America, and even Europe (any of the Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
Go East, if and when Corsican, the northern Basque Country, "Tahiti" (Tahiti's only part of French Polynesia), New Caledonia, and/or Guyana actually having independence-supporting populations voting for independence by very wide margins, that'd be great. Isn't the idea of recognizing the independence of every territory that achieves independence in a lawful framework, regardless of the hostility of the erstwhile parent nation, a good one?
Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
(Mike, 2 March 2010 15:39)
Mike, just read a bit of kouchner track record and involvement in so many part of the world (mainly Ruanda)and you'll have the answer to your questions.
Wondering how he can still sleep... even during his involvement in the doctors without borders he was a controversial person!
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
(UNE, 2 March 2010 13:30)
UNE,
This is probably the best post here so far. But the evil is in detail. What is the Albanian proposal regarding the brand? On Serbian side there are so many choices.... Let's limit it to 20 Euro. Everything more than that is rarely worth the money.
Under these conditions I am afraid our side is rather a winner. Of course you can pull out a Jolly Joker like Baywood Ruby Cabernet from California à 1.7 Euro/bottle from Lidl, but that's maybe not fair because it's an exclusive export. As the answer I would pull out the Habana rum from Cuba and make everyone from the States cry out in frustration - it is banned from America and we will win hands down.
-- Ah, at last a worthy challenge! I like it UNE! But if I may modify the rules a little bit? Kosovo needs to get 10 *meaningful* recognitions. Paupa New Guinea (which I'm surprised hasn't recognized yet) isn't going to really change the dynamics. Let's shoot for some heavy hitters in Africa, Latin America, and even Europe (any of the Fantastic 5 counts as 2 recognitions). Once the momentum goes clearly in favor of one side, they buy a round of drinks for the losing side - in the spirit of "good neighborly relations"
(Mike, 2 March 2010 15:39)
Yes But i dont think that any of the "fantastic" 5 are really better than Papua or Malawi or any one else
If you are serious email me at unengafieri@hotmail.com we can set it up. No need for "" frienldy relations. Whether we like it or not we are neighboors.
No one has taken me up on my bet. Lets make a fund where we all put 50$ and these would be the conditions
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
Serbs and Croats tribes migrated to Europe in or about the 6th and 7th century and have inhabited the lands in Southeastern Europe.
It is indidious to presume that "Albania" is the owner of the so called "Illyrian history and empire". An equaly absurdity is claiming that the Serb and Croat tribes are tied somehow to the Roman Empire.
Albania was created at the insistance of US President Woodrow Wilson after WW I with great opposition from then Serbian foreign minister Nikola Pasic as well as French opposition. Its no secret that per-capita, Serbia paid the highest price with close to 20% of Serbia's population dying to protect little Serbia from being invaded by Austro-Hungaria, Bulgaria an d Germany.
Albania is an artificial country created from the remnants of the Turkish empire and never with the national will, fortitute and unity to fight for it's own freedom like the Serbs, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians did against five hundred years of Ottoman rule.
After this, Albania became a colony of Italy, a colony of the Soviet Union and now a colony of the United States of America.
No one has taken me up on my bet. Lets make a fund where we all put 50$ and these would be the conditions
If by 2010 end there is more than 10 new recognitions than we(albanian) side wins and has a drink. If there is one withdraw of recognition than you(Serbs) win. Lets have some make it fun
(UNE, 2 March 2010 13:30)
50$ for that by the end of 2010 will come 10 more new recognitions ,and also one very expensive French Champagne that never will came any withdraw of recognition .
Cheers !!!
so the point is that I was still residing in Halifax at the time and if by chance these Kosovar drivers had driven past or by me I would have cheered them on just to congratulate them.Oh by the way,back in 2006,I was told by the Albanian-Canadian Community Association that the Halifax area has just 15 families from Kosovo.
(Nadeem, 3 March 2010 01:55)
Do you get paid to write nonsense here? First you opine about your dating choices and now you go on and on and on about how you "would have" liked to cheer for Kosovo Albanians in Halifax?!
What is your gosh darn problem?! I'm sorry if my comments appear boring but that doesn't justify your rudeness to me. Additionally you're the one who's writing nonsense by asking me how much I get paid to write what you define as nonsense.Finally my age is not your business and also if you're going to be rude and freak out with me than it's best to leave me alone,alright?!
Sreten I hope you're not making such remarks about me.I don't need a doctor's help and certainly I don't want help from a doctor who might give me insensitive or unprofessional advice.I'll admit to you that I'm angry at Jason but I'm not yelling at him. So please Sreten have the decency to understand how I feel.Thank You.
I wonder what Mr Kouchner will say if the Algerian and Moroccan minorities in France reach such large numbers that they start proclaiming little Sharia states across France.
Will that also be irreversable and a "done deal"? What goes around, comes around.
Albania was created at the insistance of US President Woodrow Wilson after WW I with great opposition from then Serbian foreign minister Nikola Pasic as well as French opposition. Its no secret that per-capita, Serbia paid the highest price with close to 20% of Serbia's population dying to protect little Serbia from being invaded by Austro-Hungaria, Bulgaria an d Germany.
Albania is an artificial country created from the remnants of the Turkish empire and never with the national will, fortitute and unity to fight for it's own freedom like the Serbs, Greeks, Romanians and Bulgarians did against five hundred years of Ottoman rule.
After this, Albania became a colony of Italy, a colony of the Soviet Union and now a colony of the United States of America.
(jugoslavija, 4 March 2010 00:42)
Oh wow, well Albania was created by the insistance of USA after the WWI although its borders were recognized in 1913, but Serbia was not created upon the gracious help of Russia and France....
Come on who are you kidding. If there is a non-entity in the Balkans, this is Serbia, or southern Russians, very little cultural distincions.
Albania needed a strong and big ally cause you already had some, Russia and all slavic and orthodox nations. You were a puppet long before Albania. Albanians were not slavic nor orthodox and even though they stayed neutral during the WWI your shovinist policies wanted to tear it apart as you yourself mention, and you wonder what do they hate Serbia, not to mention the barbaric attrocities comitted against the civilians durin last century.
You broke off with Russia because Tito was smart, not cause Serbia was "its own country" - but Tito was not a Serb, and just like Tito cut ties with Russia so did Albanias 10 years later, in a even more demostrative way.
When Albanians were fighting the Turks you were sleeping in bed with them, and marrying your women to Ottomans to play it safe. Who are you kidding. Read the history, and tell me when did Albanians ever subdue to the Turkish rule, even though they became muslim to survive Greek and Slavic shovinism, turks never had their way with Albanians, indeed Albanians were one of the most rebelious nation against the Turks, from Scanderbeg all the way to the fall of the empire.
My message to pro-independence Kosovars is that my belief that Kosovo should attain independence is irreversible so far.
In a relevant matter when I viewed on You Tube the pro-independence Kosovar-Albanians celebrating their success a few videos in particular I viewed had shown Kosovar nationals back in 2008 who reside in my former university hometown (the eastern Canadian city of Halifax which is located in the province of Nova Scotia)celebrating independence.In a few of these videos I noticed a convoy of honking vehicles being driven by pro-independence Kosovars who evidently were honking their vehicles out of joy so the point is that I was still residing in Halifax at the time and if by chance these Kosovar drivers had driven past or by me I would have cheered them on just to congratulate them.Oh by the way,back in 2006,I was told by the Albanian-Canadian Community Association that the Halifax area has just 15 families from Kosovo.
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