Albania accused of obstructing organ trafficking case

Gee, do you maybe think that the Albanian government was implicated in this organ trafficking matter? How could that possibly be? The Albanians are peace loving, respectful of other ethnicities, want to live in multi-ethnic and religious societies - it can't be that they could have been involved in the horrendous accusation of taking organs out of living prisoners. Just ask the frequent Albanian posters here, they will tell you that that is impossible. The Albanian government is just respecting the rights of others, that is why they are putting up obstacles.

Mark, though I think I would agree with your sentiment, the details are somewhat misleading. Ideally I would suggest that all the newly formed nations of the former Jugoslavia release all pieces of seemingly relevant information regarding the details of the times of war. This should also be applied to the neighboring nations with respect to things like refugee counts and so forth.
Further to that I would suggest that all nations directly involved with the dismantling of the former Jugoslavia release all their classified documents, all the actors involved announce their roles and actions and motivations. Then I would also suggest that since this is not a right that the only peoples of the Former Jugoslavia have and deserve to be bestowed back upon them, that such actions be take with respect to all recent and older wars. In fact I would go one step further and have it be that all the governing bodies around the world that consider themselves democratic and free release all seal information with respect to their internal and external policies and actions so that we can all get back our rights to know what is happening in the world all around us.
It would be fair that the Iraqi people know why it was that their country was destroyed. It would be fair that the American people know why it was that their twin towers were destroyed, why they are so disliked.
Even though you have presented a lopsided set of numbers (not disputing them) the numbers are somewhat less relevant in the larger sense of the issue.
And yes. I think all sides should start to be honest with each other. It is not the regular person that has problems with the regular person from elsewhere as often as it is the elected, or elevated person that has problems with elected or elevated persons elsewhere and it is the regular person that has to pay for it, either with their lives, or the lives of their loved ones, or even their life savings and homes and livelihoods.

What a surprise...., don't get Mr Alston and Mr Marty angry, you will surely regret it...

But let me help the nationalists to find an excuse.. Mr Alston was born in Switzerland and did his classes with Mr Marty, so his judgement must be wrong, moreover he then moved to Ticino and met Mrs Del Ponte and they became very good friends, so it must be a conspiration...

How about spending more time pressuring the Belgrade to return 2000 missing Albanians instead of wasting time in fiction stories. Your entire organisation is becoming more known as a joke, no wonder no one takes you serious anymore.

There are two thousand Kosovo Albanians still missing since the war.Their bodies were never found. So lets start with finding out what happened to at least 1700 of them and then both Serbia and Albania cooperate in investigatin the fate of 300 serbs that you think were taken to albania and the reamaining 300 albanians killed by the serbs. It is a fare deal.

Here is some more on the full article and Albania's response:

"Each insisted that if requested by the right authorities and under proper conditions they would not hesitate to cooperate. "

"Alston, a U.N. Special Rapporteur ...said Albanian authorities had told him the allegations were politically motivated and baseless."

In the meanwhile, nvestigations have already taken place as the original article reports:

"Investigators said they found bloodstains, gauze in the garbage area and syringes but not enough evidence for a case." and this was on 2004, 5 years after the alleged crimes. Were the perpetrators preserving the syringes and gauze as relics?

Get a court order and then come back Mr. Alston.

And last but not least the full article in NY times.
Enjoy.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/02/23/world/international-us-albania-serbia-investigation.html

Whole Yellow House operation was under NATO and EU umbrella. It was just impossible to organize such a complex and (must be) perfectly coordinated executions without their knowledge, that time on that place. Ultra synchronization and exact timings are must in those things and in those quantities was just impossible not to mention something at that place and those circumstances. It's just about time and I'm sure sooner or later someone will "open his mouth"- that's human nature and is always happening after a while. Serbia should publicly offer huge amount of money (and safe refuge)for the informers. They'll talk!

If Albania has nothing to hide, open its doors to provide access for a full investigation. If it turns up empty, then Tirana gets bragging rights. But the more it obstructs the investigaton while simultaneously scoffing at the ridiculousness of it all, the more doubt it raises that Tirana is innocent. My guess is that Tirana isn't done destroying the evidence before it allows the investigation to continue.

Big surprise by the Albanians.....obstructing investigations.....of course they won't admit to any wrongdoing- they never do. Then, some of these K-Alb posters want to compare missing and killed war casualities (normal for any war) with the alleged organ traffiking and subsequent agonizing deaths of Serb civilians (NOT normal for any war). It's heart-warming to know that our Albanian friends would never do such things that they are being accused of.....and by obstructing the investigations, I'm REALLY convinced!!!

If Serbia is investigating alledged organ harvesting by the KLA, and Albania's role in this horrendous accusation - it does not mean that Kosovo Albanians cannot launch an investigation into their alledged claim that Albanian missing persons are buried in Serbia. What does one investigation have to do with the other? All sides want to know where their missing are, and possibly who killed them. An Albanian life is not worth more than a Serbian one, and vise-versa. I do not understand Albania's putting up obstacles. They are seeking European entry, yet do not want to cooperate on issues of missing war victims.

Carla del Ponte, nicknamed today's Agatha Kristi, threw a stone in the river and few officials are trying to find it...))

My guess is that Tirana isn't done destroying the evidence before it allows the investigation to continue.
(Mike, 23 February 2010 21:45)

Wow, what a guess!!
How many years it would take for a government to destroy any evidence? 10 years already have passed.

Tirana is not obstructing any real investigation, but "private parties" do not have jurisdiction to tell Tirana what to do.

“2000 missing Albanians…”

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=04&dd=27&nav_category=102&nav_id=40930

What these posters are deliberately misleading you about is the fact that 700 of the missing were NON-Albanian (Easily Checked - Just read B92). Making up 35% of those missing despite the fact minorities make up only 10-15% of the population in Kosovo.

Why such a disproportionately high number of non-Albanians? Why do some posters still seem to feel the need to fudge the truth about the facts and claim the victims of others as their own?

My first reaction to the Yellow House was that it was BS. I still haven’t seen any evidence, but at this point I think it should be followed up on, and it could explain the missing 500 Serbs from the conflict.

If Albania has nothing to hide, open its doors to provide access for a full investigation. If it turns up empty, then Tirana gets bragging rights. But the more it obstructs the investigaton while simultaneously scoffing at the ridiculousness of it all, the more doubt it raises that Tirana is innocent. My guess is that Tirana isn't done destroying the evidence before it allows the investigation to continue.
(Mike, 23 February 2010 21:45)

Mike,

Would you use your same reasoning and require Belgrade to open its doors, if it has nothing to hide, and let international investigators and police search throughout Serbia and the Republic of Srbska for Ratko Mladic and other Serb war criminals with the full cooperation of Serbia? No, I didn't think so!

We will be back and make the yellow house a church in honour of those tortured and murdered.

Of course, there will be no cooperation in this matter, since this is a politcal motivated farce. Albanians will never give in that, rightfully. Some Serbs can say whatever they want, they anyway just satisfy their prejudices. Who cares...

Regarding the investigations, just read what the independent investigators 2002 found. No proof, not even enough to be be mentioned by talketive Carla del Ponte. Well, for her fairy tale stories it was definitely enough to boost sales for a book that without that lies would be already forgotton. The investigation has been closed 2002. End of the story! Now found Genocide-Mladic whose crimes against humanity are proofed, well-documented and confirmed by the International Court of Justice in Den Haag.

Michael,

Belgrade's doors are open to find Maldic. In fact, international organizations have actually seen him years ago, when he was wanted, but did nothing.
But yes, those doors are open, and have been open to help in finding Mladic. However, not many are offering to help.

Mike

I used to be one of those that advocated for Albania to allow the Serb prosecutor to investigate.

However, considering how politicized everything has become, along with the constant smear campaign coming out of Belgrade (this site seems to be doing its part as well every so often), I believe that was naive.

Right now, the only party "investigating" is Serbia... not the UN, not the EU.

Allowing the Serb prosecution in Albania would imply that Serbia's prosecution (nominated by your ministry of justice I assume) is to be TRUSTED to present findings as they are, not as Serbia's government wishes them to be.

That's like trusting a wolf to protect your sheep.

Until the UN or even the EU officially requests that a UN/EU investigation be opened into the matter, Alston's opinions are Alston's opinions and Albania should not budge from its current position.

"Would you use your same reasoning and require Belgrade to open its doors, if it has nothing to hide, and let international investigators and police search throughout Serbia and the Republic of Srbska for Ratko Mladic and other Serb war criminals with the full cooperation of Serbia? No, I didn't think so!" (Michael R)

-- Without hesitation! Don't know why you'd believe I'd think otherwise!

"and taken to northern Albania by Kosovo's ethnic Albanian terrorists"

Poor choice of words. While I don't expect you to call them freedom fighters either, for you are after all Serbs, cool down the bias for journalism's sake and call them what they were...rebels.

Poor choice of words. While I don't expect you to call them freedom fighters either, for you are after all Serbs, cool down the bias for journalism's sake and call them what they were...rebels.
(Tony, 24 February 2010 21:03)
=====================

They might've been taken off the terrorist list in Washington (for their own purposes) but to everyone else they are still terrorists.

The case of human organ trafficking, especially against living human beings is a Crime Against Humanity and in times of war, it is a War Crime Against Humanity. There is no reason for the government of Albania not to cooperate with investigators unless Albania wants to allow ALbanian criminals to escape from prosecution. Osama Bin Laden's group, Al Queda, partly formed the KLA according to US State Department records. Did Al Queda have a role in Muslims stealing organs from living Christians on direct orders from its founder, Osama Bin Laden? Osama Bin Laden was in the former Yugoslavia back in the 1990's. Osama Bin Laden always preaches war and destruction against non Muslims and is totally against the existence of churches, temples, anything that is not a mosque. Chances are this human organ trafficking investigation not only includes Albania, but goes far beyond Albania and all the way to the Middle East. Why cannot the Albanian government be charged by the World Court or the United Nations with obstruction of justice? Why cannot economic sanctions be slapped against Albania? Are there terrorists camps, operated by Al Queda, functioning in Albania since at least the 1990's? Perhaps these camps, if they exist, would hold the keys to information on who the organizers are and who the foot soldiers are in regards to human organ trafficking and church destruction.

There is no proof of any kind of Organ trafficing. A book published to make SALES people, that's what I was, the book gave no names and no proof. All it did was give Serbs a scapegoat. If the Kla was responsible for anything, it was that it killed all the Albanians that opposed violence(Rugovas), the original members of the LDK were systematicaly executed by the KLA.

God knows what happened to those 500 Serbs but it's not constructive to point fingers with no evidence.

I'll ask u this guys, if the Kosovo parliment claimed there was a mass grave in the north of Serbia because of a boom, would u give the government "full cooperation" I don't know about u guys but I wouldnt put the welfare of my country on anothers with a history like ours.

If the UN calls for it, i'm sure Albania will give full cooperation to a CREDIBLE investigator.

How about spending more time pressuring the Belgrade to return 2000 missing Albanians instead of wasting time in fiction stories. Your entire organisation is becoming more known as a joke, no wonder no one takes you serious anymore.

There are two thousand Kosovo Albanians still missing since the war.Their bodies were never found. So lets start with finding out what happened to at least 1700 of them and then both Serbia and Albania cooperate in investigatin the fate of 300 serbs that you think were taken to albania and the reamaining 300 albanians killed by the serbs. It is a fare deal.

Here is some more on the full article and Albania's response:

"Each insisted that if requested by the right authorities and under proper conditions they would not hesitate to cooperate. "

"Alston, a U.N. Special Rapporteur ...said Albanian authorities had told him the allegations were politically motivated and baseless."

In the meanwhile, nvestigations have already taken place as the original article reports:

"Investigators said they found bloodstains, gauze in the garbage area and syringes but not enough evidence for a case." and this was on 2004, 5 years after the alleged crimes. Were the perpetrators preserving the syringes and gauze as relics?

Get a court order and then come back Mr. Alston.

And last but not least the full article in NY times.
Enjoy.

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/2010/02/23/world/international-us-albania-serbia-investigation.html

Gee, do you maybe think that the Albanian government was implicated in this organ trafficking matter? How could that possibly be? The Albanians are peace loving, respectful of other ethnicities, want to live in multi-ethnic and religious societies - it can't be that they could have been involved in the horrendous accusation of taking organs out of living prisoners. Just ask the frequent Albanian posters here, they will tell you that that is impossible. The Albanian government is just respecting the rights of others, that is why they are putting up obstacles.

What a surprise...., don't get Mr Alston and Mr Marty angry, you will surely regret it...

But let me help the nationalists to find an excuse.. Mr Alston was born in Switzerland and did his classes with Mr Marty, so his judgement must be wrong, moreover he then moved to Ticino and met Mrs Del Ponte and they became very good friends, so it must be a conspiration...

Carla del Ponte, nicknamed today's Agatha Kristi, threw a stone in the river and few officials are trying to find it...))

If Albania has nothing to hide, open its doors to provide access for a full investigation. If it turns up empty, then Tirana gets bragging rights. But the more it obstructs the investigaton while simultaneously scoffing at the ridiculousness of it all, the more doubt it raises that Tirana is innocent. My guess is that Tirana isn't done destroying the evidence before it allows the investigation to continue.

Big surprise by the Albanians.....obstructing investigations.....of course they won't admit to any wrongdoing- they never do. Then, some of these K-Alb posters want to compare missing and killed war casualities (normal for any war) with the alleged organ traffiking and subsequent agonizing deaths of Serb civilians (NOT normal for any war). It's heart-warming to know that our Albanian friends would never do such things that they are being accused of.....and by obstructing the investigations, I'm REALLY convinced!!!

If Albania has nothing to hide, open its doors to provide access for a full investigation. If it turns up empty, then Tirana gets bragging rights. But the more it obstructs the investigaton while simultaneously scoffing at the ridiculousness of it all, the more doubt it raises that Tirana is innocent. My guess is that Tirana isn't done destroying the evidence before it allows the investigation to continue.
(Mike, 23 February 2010 21:45)

Mike,

Would you use your same reasoning and require Belgrade to open its doors, if it has nothing to hide, and let international investigators and police search throughout Serbia and the Republic of Srbska for Ratko Mladic and other Serb war criminals with the full cooperation of Serbia? No, I didn't think so!

We will be back and make the yellow house a church in honour of those tortured and murdered.

My guess is that Tirana isn't done destroying the evidence before it allows the investigation to continue.
(Mike, 23 February 2010 21:45)

Wow, what a guess!!
How many years it would take for a government to destroy any evidence? 10 years already have passed.

Tirana is not obstructing any real investigation, but "private parties" do not have jurisdiction to tell Tirana what to do.

Of course, there will be no cooperation in this matter, since this is a politcal motivated farce. Albanians will never give in that, rightfully. Some Serbs can say whatever they want, they anyway just satisfy their prejudices. Who cares...

Regarding the investigations, just read what the independent investigators 2002 found. No proof, not even enough to be be mentioned by talketive Carla del Ponte. Well, for her fairy tale stories it was definitely enough to boost sales for a book that without that lies would be already forgotton. The investigation has been closed 2002. End of the story! Now found Genocide-Mladic whose crimes against humanity are proofed, well-documented and confirmed by the International Court of Justice in Den Haag.

There is no proof of any kind of Organ trafficing. A book published to make SALES people, that's what I was, the book gave no names and no proof. All it did was give Serbs a scapegoat. If the Kla was responsible for anything, it was that it killed all the Albanians that opposed violence(Rugovas), the original members of the LDK were systematicaly executed by the KLA.

God knows what happened to those 500 Serbs but it's not constructive to point fingers with no evidence.

I'll ask u this guys, if the Kosovo parliment claimed there was a mass grave in the north of Serbia because of a boom, would u give the government "full cooperation" I don't know about u guys but I wouldnt put the welfare of my country on anothers with a history like ours.

If the UN calls for it, i'm sure Albania will give full cooperation to a CREDIBLE investigator.

"and taken to northern Albania by Kosovo's ethnic Albanian terrorists"

Poor choice of words. While I don't expect you to call them freedom fighters either, for you are after all Serbs, cool down the bias for journalism's sake and call them what they were...rebels.

If Serbia is investigating alledged organ harvesting by the KLA, and Albania's role in this horrendous accusation - it does not mean that Kosovo Albanians cannot launch an investigation into their alledged claim that Albanian missing persons are buried in Serbia. What does one investigation have to do with the other? All sides want to know where their missing are, and possibly who killed them. An Albanian life is not worth more than a Serbian one, and vise-versa. I do not understand Albania's putting up obstacles. They are seeking European entry, yet do not want to cooperate on issues of missing war victims.

Whole Yellow House operation was under NATO and EU umbrella. It was just impossible to organize such a complex and (must be) perfectly coordinated executions without their knowledge, that time on that place. Ultra synchronization and exact timings are must in those things and in those quantities was just impossible not to mention something at that place and those circumstances. It's just about time and I'm sure sooner or later someone will "open his mouth"- that's human nature and is always happening after a while. Serbia should publicly offer huge amount of money (and safe refuge)for the informers. They'll talk!

Michael,

Belgrade's doors are open to find Maldic. In fact, international organizations have actually seen him years ago, when he was wanted, but did nothing.
But yes, those doors are open, and have been open to help in finding Mladic. However, not many are offering to help.

Poor choice of words. While I don't expect you to call them freedom fighters either, for you are after all Serbs, cool down the bias for journalism's sake and call them what they were...rebels.
(Tony, 24 February 2010 21:03)
=====================

They might've been taken off the terrorist list in Washington (for their own purposes) but to everyone else they are still terrorists.

“2000 missing Albanians…”

http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=04&dd=27&nav_category=102&nav_id=40930

What these posters are deliberately misleading you about is the fact that 700 of the missing were NON-Albanian (Easily Checked - Just read B92). Making up 35% of those missing despite the fact minorities make up only 10-15% of the population in Kosovo.

Why such a disproportionately high number of non-Albanians? Why do some posters still seem to feel the need to fudge the truth about the facts and claim the victims of others as their own?

My first reaction to the Yellow House was that it was BS. I still haven’t seen any evidence, but at this point I think it should be followed up on, and it could explain the missing 500 Serbs from the conflict.

Mike

I used to be one of those that advocated for Albania to allow the Serb prosecutor to investigate.

However, considering how politicized everything has become, along with the constant smear campaign coming out of Belgrade (this site seems to be doing its part as well every so often), I believe that was naive.

Right now, the only party "investigating" is Serbia... not the UN, not the EU.

Allowing the Serb prosecution in Albania would imply that Serbia's prosecution (nominated by your ministry of justice I assume) is to be TRUSTED to present findings as they are, not as Serbia's government wishes them to be.

That's like trusting a wolf to protect your sheep.

Until the UN or even the EU officially requests that a UN/EU investigation be opened into the matter, Alston's opinions are Alston's opinions and Albania should not budge from its current position.

The case of human organ trafficking, especially against living human beings is a Crime Against Humanity and in times of war, it is a War Crime Against Humanity. There is no reason for the government of Albania not to cooperate with investigators unless Albania wants to allow ALbanian criminals to escape from prosecution. Osama Bin Laden's group, Al Queda, partly formed the KLA according to US State Department records. Did Al Queda have a role in Muslims stealing organs from living Christians on direct orders from its founder, Osama Bin Laden? Osama Bin Laden was in the former Yugoslavia back in the 1990's. Osama Bin Laden always preaches war and destruction against non Muslims and is totally against the existence of churches, temples, anything that is not a mosque. Chances are this human organ trafficking investigation not only includes Albania, but goes far beyond Albania and all the way to the Middle East. Why cannot the Albanian government be charged by the World Court or the United Nations with obstruction of justice? Why cannot economic sanctions be slapped against Albania? Are there terrorists camps, operated by Al Queda, functioning in Albania since at least the 1990's? Perhaps these camps, if they exist, would hold the keys to information on who the organizers are and who the foot soldiers are in regards to human organ trafficking and church destruction.

"Would you use your same reasoning and require Belgrade to open its doors, if it has nothing to hide, and let international investigators and police search throughout Serbia and the Republic of Srbska for Ratko Mladic and other Serb war criminals with the full cooperation of Serbia? No, I didn't think so!" (Michael R)

-- Without hesitation! Don't know why you'd believe I'd think otherwise!

Mark, though I think I would agree with your sentiment, the details are somewhat misleading. Ideally I would suggest that all the newly formed nations of the former Jugoslavia release all pieces of seemingly relevant information regarding the details of the times of war. This should also be applied to the neighboring nations with respect to things like refugee counts and so forth.
Further to that I would suggest that all nations directly involved with the dismantling of the former Jugoslavia release all their classified documents, all the actors involved announce their roles and actions and motivations. Then I would also suggest that since this is not a right that the only peoples of the Former Jugoslavia have and deserve to be bestowed back upon them, that such actions be take with respect to all recent and older wars. In fact I would go one step further and have it be that all the governing bodies around the world that consider themselves democratic and free release all seal information with respect to their internal and external policies and actions so that we can all get back our rights to know what is happening in the world all around us.
It would be fair that the Iraqi people know why it was that their country was destroyed. It would be fair that the American people know why it was that their twin towers were destroyed, why they are so disliked.
Even though you have presented a lopsided set of numbers (not disputing them) the numbers are somewhat less relevant in the larger sense of the issue.
And yes. I think all sides should start to be honest with each other. It is not the regular person that has problems with the regular person from elsewhere as often as it is the elected, or elevated person that has problems with elected or elevated persons elsewhere and it is the regular person that has to pay for it, either with their lives, or the lives of their loved ones, or even their life savings and homes and livelihoods.