"150,000 in Kosovo live on 45 cents"

Kosovo really needs to be governed by Serbia again, the people there don't even know how to do some basic maths. Serbia will bring back the proper education.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010, 12:57)

2 million?

Show some facts or statistics to back this up.

Thats the consequence of living in a failed state for people deluded enough to think 'hey, lets illegally seperate from Serbia & the investments will pour in!' Its the same irational self-deluded fantasy believing that got them into pyramid schemes, enverism & their disproven 'illyrian origin'. Albanians need to listen to Fatos Lubonja!

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?

PRN,
maybe so, but it was Serbia that was bombed and economically destoyed by the US and EU.

What's Kosovo's excuse?

Maybe this is why Albanians are lining up to get Serbian passports in Gracanica and leave? 150,000 doesn't represent Kosovo's poor. It represents Kosovo's abject poor; the poor, so the article says, that dreams about making it to the official poverty line. I'd say after 10 years of "liberation" if povery of this sort continues to exist in the "newest borned state", someone at the helm is skimming more than a little off the top. Perhaps Thaci et al should cease channeling money towards their clan constituents, stop wasting it on bribing states to recognize, stop spending it on useless ads on CNN, and certainly cease any activity in planning on integrating parts of their "country" that are happy to remain off Pristina's grid.

Let us review!
Kosovo is independent, the justice is corrupt, politicans/criminals possess millions.

And the only thing you are interesstest in, is the struggle against the North, because they don´t want be member of such a state.

May you focus your effort to get trust in the justice, take the money back for the politicans and start (together with your neighbours) attrackting international investment in jobs with trustbuilding.

As always, the message is the same. Once you've designed your flag your country, be it Kosovo, Moldova, Palestine, needs to make/grow things that other people want to buy. Unless you do that, your country is going to be entirely reliant on international donations, political charity from a supposed ally (who will receive interest at some point) or recognise that being part of another nation in some way might be a more effective way of creating the situation where the citizens can be productive rather than finding that their pent-up emotions need to be kept in check by gangsters/police/internal security forces/UN. In short, building steel works, factories or creating intellectual patents that someone somewhere will buy from you is the only way forward and that applies to countries big and small.

"PRN,
maybe so, but it was Serbia that was bombed and economically destoyed by the US and EU.

What's Kosovo's excuse?
(Another Canadian Serb, 23 February 2010 14:43) "

This comment made me laugh....what do you think happened in Kosovo during 98/99 war?!!

What US and EU did to Serbia was nothing compared to the devastation that Serbia caused in Kosovo during the war and even before since beginning of 90s...

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

You have out done even Jason and Jovan with this nonsense.

PRN,
"maybe so, but it was Serbia that was bombed and economically destoyed by the US and EU.

What's Kosovo's excuse?"
Another Canadian Serb

Indeed! Albanian run territories have done horribly. Albania has had all the time in the world but doesn't even have white schengen and is far far away from looking like a civilized society. The international community has been in Kosovo for 10 years and invested billions of dollars and still its a mess. Imagine what will happen when they leave!?!?
Some people are just not fit to govern but only to be govorned.

"150,000 people in Kosovo live on 45 cents"

Well this is less than 7% of the total population of Kosovo.

In Serbia 36% of the population lives under $1 (80 Euro cents).

SO Serbia is much worse than Kosovo anyways.

neoliberalism + high birth rate = the tragedy known as Kosovo

Kosovoa, you are really amazing. Everything you read you automatically see if you can find something being the same, or worse, in Serbia. You claim to be independent of Serbia, why always the comparisons? BTW, what you state is a lie. Please grow up, and state the facts, your posts are ridiculous.

one rather naive comment in the beginning says " 2 mil serbs live the same way - so what?"

I´d say that a significant number of Albanians here obviously have nothing more to contribute than either stupid provocations or like mentioned above writing pure nonsense.

is it the complete lack of knownledge that makes them write in that manner?

is it frustration, about having no perspective in their little "newborn" freak creation that can only last as long as foreign occupiers are there?

who knows, but one thing is for sure:

the average k-albanian will have to decide one day, whether he wants to live under these conditions or whether he wants a better life for him and his dearest.

that´s when they will realize that there is no "kosovaah" - only Serbia.

it´s only a question of time until simple criminals like Touchy and his comrades will leave their offices for some safe haven in the US or on a small pacific island...

nikshala

Serbia considered and still does Kosovo as its own land. Why then would they destroy the infrastructure in Kosovo? The destruction in Kosovo was minimal and you know that. The destruction that did take place in Kosovo was thanks to NATO bombardment. Kosovo is a small territory and its amazing that billions and billions of dollars have not brought any progress to this territory. You can keep on blaming everyone else but we all know who is to blame, albanians themselves. You expected america to do the work you should do. However, the americans only care about their military base and care little about what else happens.

k-usa says..."So what is the big deal about this article?... If the teacher is inept, how can he/she teach the students?"

k-usa- you are the first to comment on this piece and you set the tone for making it a political issue. If you have a problem with the piece then contact Daily Koha Ditore or the Institute for Social Policies who published this info.

You need to learn about the terrible effects of poverty.
From malnutrition to poor health care, substandard education and feelings of shame and family violence, poverty impacts every member of a family including and ESPECIALLY the children.

You are the one who appears to need educated.

It doesn't matter how poor we are. I have post it before and i will post it again.We choose to die of famine,swine flu,or whatever other reason than accept being ruled by Serbia again. Ask any Kosovo Albanian and you will get the same answer. So serbs stop acting like you care about us. The only thing that we got from serbia was death and destruction. To the person that claims that Serbia was bombed that's why it is poor.Please tell me how many houses where bombed and burned.How many serbian refugies had to live serbia because of the bombs.

not that it really matters, but "In 2007 6,6% of the population lived below the national poverty line of Serbian Dinar 8,888 per month (approximately £80 per month)." which is more than 2.50$ a day.

http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/DFID_Serbia_Factsheet.pdf

this is bad, but obviously it's not true that 2 million or 36% of serbian population live on 45 euroecent a day.

Kosovo unlike Serbia couldnt take billions in loan to fed its ppl. Then again, I doubt these ppl had any better standards under Milosevic's regime, which begs the question, are majority of these Roma and Ashkali? They tend to hold secret their income and beg for more.

It will likely be soon that 10 million people in America live off the same amount too Kosova-USA. With the number of people here that are collecting the pogie, and the number of people who have dropped off the back of that queue, I am surprised that you did not mention that in your once again exclusively irrationally biased statement. It is enough to say that it is hot in Mexico in July. One does not need to mention that it is also hot here in Texas, or in Spain, or in Dubai. A statement can stand be it self without the need to associate it to an equivalent or similar.
Furthermore it is snowy in Detroit in February, it is also snowy in Norway at the same time.
The point is that it is a statistic that has been collected, this statistic is trying to demonstrate the reality through scientific, mathematical logic and not through anecdotal experiences felt by someone living in NYC and giving the world the news from their telephone or skype buddies.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

We all knew that you have hatry for anything that has to do with Serbs but frankly that you even managed to turn into derision such a terrible news is simply beyond any respect for any human being.
Do you understand that with this kind of statement you are simply throughing in the garbage people that are suffering the hell, you have really no respect for nothing and I wished you would be ban from this site.

Never forget, this is an english speaking forum, meaning that a lot of foreigners like me are reading and believe me with attitude like yours, PRN, Pejoni your are only further ternishing the image that k-a are having!

I'm really sorry for these people, even more sorry that they are represented in their province by criminals like thaci and here by such low level blogers!

Last but not least, am so frustrated and angry at our FM who lied to our govnt while forcing the illegal UDI in the parliament.
This news is one out of so many that is exactly at the opposite direction than what she claimed at that time.

neoliberalism + high birth rate = the tragedy known as Kosovo
(vladimir gagic, 23 February 2010 18:33)
Spoken like a lawyer.
What do you know about Kosovo except for spelling it right? Actually, even that is wrong => Kosova.
Do you live or work in Kosovo? When were you last in Kosovo? Did you ever contribute anything for the wellfare of Kosovo?

Kosovo-USA says,

"I can show facts, but can you?"

- Still waiting on the facts to support your assertion regarding 2 million Serbs.

"These are the only places were people are rich, middle class or blue color."

- I am not so sure about the blue-colored people you speak of... I heard they live quite happily in hollow trees along with the Keebler elves though.

"Once you drive south towards Kragujevac,Nis and other areas, people are living in dire conditions.
I have seen people wearing cloth from salvation army store."

- How can you tell clothing is from a Salvation Army store???

"Actually they dont have cloth from a real store.
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 18:36)"

- As opposed to a fake store?

Are these the "facts" you support your argument with?

Man, grow up.

If there was some local charitable organization in my hometown collecting money for Kosovars living on the poverty line than I would donate as much money as possible to assist these people.

Nikshala I have to correct you and hope you will admit I am right.

Probably you are balancing the western (EU, US) response against Serbia vis a vis kosovo. However, if you want to go back to the beginning of the 90's - we need to talk about western sanctions which crippled Serbia and I might add criminalised a large section of society ie forced them to purchse black market goods. I honestly don't know how to calculate but I'm certain that due to EU, US actions (war and economy related) in the 90's to 2000 against Serbia cost the Serbian economy something approaching a billion euros.

Still, I'm not a fan of this 'we suffered most' competition, just wanted to point this out.

Kosovo really needs to be governed by Serbia again, the people there don't even know how to do some basic maths. Serbia will bring back the proper education.
(AdamSRB, 23 February 2010 12:59)

If the teacher is inept, how can he/she teach the students?

Why is everyone here suprised-albanians in Kosovo were always welfare nation.My father had to part with one day salary every single month for 30 years to help albanians in Kosovo.
West knew this,but that was small price to pay for another base.
Tragedy is that even that small welfare is just about to dry up for albanians in Kosovo.

Show some facts or statistics to back this up.
(Jason, 23 February 2010 13:47)

I can show facts, but can you?

Entire Serbia does not evolve around only in Vojvodina and Belgrade with its sorroundings. These are the only places were people are rich, middle class or blue color. Once you drive south towards Kragujevac,Nis and other areas, people are living in dire conditions.
I have seen people wearing cloth from salvation army store. Actually they dont have cloth from a real store.

Are you serious? So according to you the serbs that killed us are a better solution for us than our Albanian corrupted politicians? Do you realize that Serbia is also one of the most corrupted countries in Europe?
(Mark, 23 February 2010 20:28)
=========================

Enough already. Serbs that killed you are the same Serbs you tried to kill first.
The only reason they fired any shots in Kosovo was because of the attacks on the Serbian and non Albanian population of Kosovo. You started that war. What, did you expect to go on murdering the Serbs there without anyone fighting back?
When you are shot at you shoot back. You should've thought of that before you started the whole mess.

(Mirub Jager, 23 February 2010 17:26)

(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 14:44)

You would think that these Albanians would keep quite on such as subject, but no they can’t help themselves trying to defend the indefensible. Here is the picture; Albanians living off 45 cents per day under freedom and democracy! Wake up boys this is the result of US/EU helping the Albanians in Kosovo.




2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

There are currently 90 million living below the poverty line in the US, but I suppose that freedom and democracy feeds and shelters them.

Just an idea but since many Albanians in Kosova / Serbs in Serbia are self sufficient farmers living in rural areas wouldnt it make since that they could live below the financial poverty line? Farmers who live off the land don't require money for many things that someone who lives in a city does.

Comment: "Actually, even that is wrong => Kosova.
Do you live or work in Kosovo?..." (Mirub Jager)

The international Name for Kosovo is spelled "Kosovo"

To Swiss

I tend to read the comments than writte in most cases but I thought I'd tell you how wrong you are in most of your comments, not personal of course I just think you are missinformed most of the time when it comes to Kosova and it's true people.

It the very subject of this article that should be the bases of why is Kosova in the state it is an why are so many of K. Alb in Swiss and throughout Eu. See it's simple manths that is if you know how to count of course, the biggest influx of imagrants from Kosova left in the early late 80s early 90s. Do not never wonder if Serbia was treating it's own "citizens" this way why would they leave their homeland from fear and depravation.
My friend it's policy that Serbia had and stuck to it 'you are either with us or againts us' now to explain this in real living terms these meant:
- if you are with us: I tell what to do, I will make sure I send you to fight against the croats and bosians
-if you are againts us: meaning you don't like our political policies well the only options were your are stuck In jail or you leave your family behind to go to swis, ger, UK etc.

Now the matter and the fact is that while srbian regime was in power 99% of the k. Alb were kicked out of any state run company, which meant all, I mean schools, hospitals, factories....

Now Swiss you can creat an opinion all you want but of k. Alb not meeting your western expecting diplomacy, it's just when it comes to Kosova - Serbia subject it's nothing to do with you is it?
We got what we wanted, now of course there is a price to pay for everything these days, if it means 10 -20 years with 7% leaving poorly as suppouse to 99% before 1999, well so be it we like this way :)

good day

"150,000 in Kosovo live on 45 cents"

The key word here is "LIVE". Unlike up to 10 years ago when their life was in constant danger of loss.

Additionally, their life may have not improved but their number is way lower from the time when Serb regime was in charge. As for Serbia's economic performance check the B92's "Economic Crisis in Serbia" and the "State of the State" video. Have in mind that this is after the schengen visa removal which means most of the poor are already oon the streets of my country and other Schengen countries.

Comment: "We choose to die of famine,swine flu,or whatever other reason than accept being ruled by Serbia again.
(Mark, 23 February 2010 17:44)"

Mark, you will die from the corrupted politicans, because they don´t care of you, they only care of your money.
It doesn´t matter if you are ruled by the "bad Serbs" or these coruption. As long you don´t understand this your country will die.

And think forward: within Europe we all will have one Country! Then Kosovo and Serbia (togehter with a lot of others) will be one country again.

So.... Kosovo is Serbia, right?

(looks around - sees the agreement in the faces of the Serbian posters)

Excluding the various people from Albania and other places that have made Kosovo their home-country for the last 10 years, that must also mean that many of these poor people are also Serbian citizens, right?

(looks around, sees the somewhat puzzled agreement in the faces of the Serbian posters)

So why is it, with Serbia doing so much better (it is after all according to one poster here "the economic powerhouse of the Balkans) - Why is it, that these poor Serbian citizen do not take the plastic bag with their few belongings, and move into Serbia proper and apply for economic support from the Serbian government?
--

Well they're not going to get any richer by backing the bogus state of 'Kosova'.
Don't these people realise that they'd have better prospects as part of the Serbia state.

Comment: "We choose to die of famine,swine flu,or whatever other reason than accept being ruled by Serbia again.
(Mark, 23 February 2010 17:44)"

Mark, you will die from the corrupted politicans, because they don´t care of you, they only care of your money.
It doesn´t matter if you are ruled by the "bad Serbs" or these coruption. As long you don´t understand this your country will die.

And think forward: within Europe we all will have one Country! Then Kosovo and Serbia (togehter with a lot of others) will be one country again.
(robby, 23 February 2010 19:08)

Are you serious? So according to you the serbs that killed us are a better solution for us than our Albanian corrupted politicians? Do you realize that Serbia is also one of the most corrupted countries in Europe?

I can show facts, but can you?

Entire Serbia does not evolve around only in Vojvodina and Belgrade with its sorroundings. These are the only places were people are rich, middle class or blue color. Once you drive south towards Kragujevac,Nis and other areas, people are living in dire conditions.
I have seen people wearing cloth from salvation army store. Actually they dont have cloth from a real store.
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 18:36)
=======================

All I see is a lot of babble and still no evidence.
Again, produce some evidence to back up all this.

David Wright - I hope you were not being serious. Maybe in the nineteenth century it would have been better, but not now! To farm you need to buy fuel, feeds, fertilizers, seeds. Then there are electricity bills, local taxes, transport costs. And what about other items, fridges, televisions, etc. Do you expect that people can simply forego all this to live a subsistence pre-modern life?

There is no point even trying to put a gloss on this report.

Cato,

Thank you for clarifying these outrageous comments with actual facts.

Kosovo-USA and Rocky, please make a note of it.

"What do you know about Kosovo except for spelling it right? Actually, even that is wrong => Kosova.
Do you live or work in Kosovo?..." (Mirub Jager)

-- Funny how you correct vladimir on the "correct" spelling of Kosovo, and then proceed to write it "incorrectly" yourself. Freudian slip there? :)

To all my albanian friends. There is some truth about this article, and we, people of Kosova know this.
I am a Kosovarian myself and I know this. The question is; What are we doing about this? Every single person complains about different things in Kosova, but what are we all doing to make it better? I also complain but I also do something about this even that I'm sufering. I don't care that I'm going through hard times. I know its like a water drop in the sea, but if each of us do little about it, then for sure we can change for better.
You see my friends, when we complain and do nothing but sit in front of TV or PC, we only give others the chance to laugh and make fun of our lifes!

It’s not 7% but more like 70% are living between 45cents and $2 dollars a day. I suppose freedom and democracy has its price – where is the west you might ask, well it’s too busy paying off Thaci and Co.

Who cares for that! The most important thing is that they are "independent state" now. Also it's more important to make the K-Serbs life in north more bitter.

i'd like to point out that figures provided by cato are incorrect at least in case of kosovo. world bank estimates that 45% of people in kosovo live below the poverty line of 1.4€ a day and 17% live in extreme poverty on just 90 euro cents a day. this article says that 7% of people live on half of those 90 euro cents.

these are absolute poverty lines valid in all countries. other figures usually talk about people who live below the national poverty line which is different from country to country. being poor in america and europe is not the same as being poor in africa. poverty line in western germany is something like 25€ a day, for example. in serbia the national poverty line is just 10% of that - 2.5€ - and 7% of the serbian population live on that or less.

thus, the poor in germany are much better of than the poor in serbia. but even the poor in serbia are considerably better off than the poor in kosovo. at least statistically. the poor themselves will disagree in all these countries, i'm sure.

"# The only thing that we got from serbia was death and destruction.
(Mark, 23 February 2010 17:44)"

Be honest, before Milosevic, kosovo was heavily subsidized because of the generosity of Serbia. It was only when you proved to ungrateful and unloyal to your country (Serbia) that some privileges were revoked. The fact is that your quality of life would have been much better in Serbia (actually you are still a part of Serbia), then your current state which is the result of blind nationalism and separatism. Had you chosen a different path, Milosevic's kosovo policies would not have been necessary. There was life before Milosevic which you conveniently ignore.

There are currently 90 million living below the poverty line in the US, but I suppose that freedom and democracy feeds and shelters them.
(sj, 23 February 2010 23:39)
2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

It is clear to from much of the posts on this forum; individuals on both sides have made it a habit to exaggerate numbers. Be it to garner attention or malign another’s opinion. What does this kind of rhetoric accomplish?

So allow me to set some numbers down:
US poverty reaches on the high end 17%, that’s roughly 50 million people. (US poverty marks are indefinite, outliers such as college students, which can qualify as in poverty skew numbers and currently, the numbers are closer to 13%)
Serbia’s poverty levels is near 7%, roughly 500,000 people.
Kosovo’s poverty is given at near 7%, roughly 150,000 people.
Albania’s poverty is on the high end 25%, roughly 800,000 people.
And for some parody, the UK has a poverty level near 14%, about 8.5 million.

These are the numbers, far different from what has been stated. I can also see anti-American or anti-capitalistic comments will be forming to these numbers. Do not bother; they are moot, save your energy for a different argument that actually has merit.

Peggy:

My question to you is that if you feel that some ethnic Albanians are accountable for their crimes or alleged crimes would you also agree that Serbs who commited or allegedly commited war crimes are also accountable as well? If you agree Peggy than that therefore makes you objective.
(Just Curious, 24 February 2010 17:09)
----------------------

Absolutely.
Everyone who has committed crimes should face justice.
Justice should be the same for all. Without it we can never have peace. The problem is that politics is such that the rich man decides who gets justice and who doesn't.

Jan Andersen:

"The report states that about 150,000 Kosovo residents live off EUR 0.45 per day or EUR 14 a month, and that they demand that the government double this aid so that they can match that received by those living in the category of “extreme poverty”."

this implies that the people that were surveyed are people that recognize kosovo institution e.i. not serbs. Why else would they demand something from the Kosovo government? Though of course there's no way I can be absolutely sure about that.

I do not however like what you wrote here: "Why is it, that these poor Serbian citizen do not take the plastic bag with their few belongings, and move into Serbia proper and apply for economic support from the Serbian government?"

Yes these people are poor as well why do you make it sound like they have something to be ashamed of? Do they not deserve to stay in their home where they have always lived? I saw a documentary yesterday about serbs living in kosovo and they don't exactly live a great life, and now you use their situation for cheap points? Why do Albanians choose to stay in serbia (not just Kosovo) instead of going to Kosovo or Albania? I don't blame them, home is home.

k-usa- you are the first to comment on this piece and you set the tone for making it a political issue. If you have a problem with the piece then contact Daily Koha Ditore or the Institute for Social Policies who published this info.

You need to learn about the terrible effects of poverty.
From malnutrition to poor health care, substandard education and feelings of shame and family violence, poverty impacts every member of a family including and ESPECIALLY the children.

You are the one who appears to need educated.
(Roger7, 23 February 2010 19:51)

There is no question about that people thorughout this globe live in poverty. Some countries have more some less.
But, what is puzzling to me about you or anybody else quoting ' Koha Ditore'. Why don't you quote articles written by Koha Ditore when they report crimes comitted by Serbs or K-Serbs in Kosova, against K-Albanians and K-Serbs alike?

What's the big deal here?
You have people in India living like animals 41-60% of entire population.
China also has a huge percentage 6-20% of people living with no income whatsoever.
And you guys call these two countries as superpowers.
There are poor people everywhere.

It is amasing how people read what they want to read not what was reported.

The article says:

the Gov of Kosova gives this amount for social aid. When you divide that amnount for 30 days and say 5 people you get 45 euro cents per day per person.

This doesn't mean that those people live with 45 euro cents per day. OK??? It is only reported the Gov expenditure. OK??? can you get tis or it is too complicated???

Most of those most people probably have also some work (in the informal economy) which is not captured by the official statistics.

So the message of the article was:

Govt of Kosova: you have to increase your expenditures for the social aid.

Anyhow, glade to feel the "love" comming from Serbia. You never miss the chance to show us how much you "love" us. Thank you for reminding us. But don't worry we never hade any doubst as we don't have any doubts that we will never ever be under your rule.

the blue "color" people thingy from kosova-usa made me giggle. everybody sing "i'm blue da ba dee da ba die..."

Peggy:

My question to you is that if you feel that some ethnic Albanians are accountable for their crimes or alleged crimes would you also agree that Serbs who commited or allegedly commited war crimes are also accountable as well? If you agree Peggy than that therefore makes you objective.

Nice try attempting to hold an argument "Kosova-USA", you seem to have no evidence for anything you claim.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)
--
Nothing more to say here.
TRUE FACT

"Today, the poor have basic cable and cell phones."

Cato, don't say things like this. What poor are you talking about? Countless homeless who sleep in parks and under bridges?
You can survive in America as long as you don't get sick. Then you run the risk of losing everything just to pay for medical care and drugs. How many were left with nothing because of that?

When majority of your population are postponing basic dental and medical care or just simply not having any because of not being able to afford it, then you have to ask yourself what use is that cell phone.

(Cato, 24 February 2010 06:29)
Governments have for decades loathed to provide accurate details of unemployment or levels of poverty because they really look bad.
But here is the conundrum! The official figures for poverty in the US prior to the world global crises was 47 million, but now after millions have lost their jobs, and continue to do so even today, you are now touting there is only 50 million or even less. There is something rotten in Denmark and it is not my information.
Even further the US figures for unemployment were initially 8%, but never went past 10%. Last Thursday I watching cable TV and heard the Australia Prime Minister say ”the US is having a difficult time with its economy and with 20% plus unemployment”. In fact some of your economists claim that it could be as high as 25%. Whether you agree or disagree the US is in a Depression not a Recession and the only thing cushioning this affect is money being spent by the Government.
As far as Serbia is concerned its Government says 700 000. In regard to Kosovo – the same US manipulators have got their hands on this one. It has no industry, it is a rural economy and its real unemployment figure would be closer if you put a zero after the number 7. The Albanians in Kosovo would be jumping for joy if it was only 7% and their youth would not be paying people smugglers to escape to the EU.
There are statistics and then there are lies. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. There was an old Soviet joke – An old man reads in Pravda that SU produced on average 3 pairs of shoes for every citizen; he looks up and ask his friend, “then why are we all walking around barefoot?

There are currently 90 million living below the poverty line in the US, but I suppose that freedom and democracy feeds and shelters them.
(sj, 23 February 2010 23:39)
Your numbers are greatly exaggerated but the rest of the quote is true.
A family at or below the poverty level qualifies for food stamps. A family of 4 would receive between 500 and 800 dollars a month. That is equal to or more than I spend on food for my family.
We also have public housing, not only govt built homes and apartments but HUD program where people can find rental homes in their own community for free or reduced rent.
Also each state has medicaid programs for those who cannot afford healthcare.
As to your figures of 25% unemployment, I think it is time to change channels on your choice of news stations.
In todays world anyone can say anything, it just does not make it factual.

I stand corrected on the numbers from Kosovo. From a document published by the World Bank in 2007, from the years of 02 to 06, the poverty level hovered from 35 to 40 percent. However, the number of people determined to be living in rural areas are roughly the same percentage. One can read into this how they would like.

Secondly, in regards to the US, unemployment and poverty are vastly different issues. As you have stated, “the only thing cushioning this affect is money being spent by the Government.” Thus because of this, even many poor are still above the poverty line. I too remember a story: the Soviets touted to their peoples that their economy was far superior to the Americans, pointing out the large number of people unemployed or in “poverty” in the US. But when they saw clips of the Americans on television, even in the projects and ghettos, they poor had color television.

Today, the poor have basic cable and cell phones.

Poverty lines are in truth arbitrary and ambiguous, it is not a universal measuring stick. It is often done to the surrounding population. The bottom line however, there are far too many people in the world that are suffering. I would try to recommend that the negative speech stop, but I know all too well that there is too much hate bottled up many on here. So, continue on as you were and accomplish nothing.

The current US official unemployment is 10%. Double it then you’ll be closer to the real figure and this is accepted by most leading economists. E.g. Australia is 5.3% real unemployment is 11%; Canada is 9.2%, but real is 18% and so on.
Unemployed is hidden in various programs such as retraining, training for skills to be employable etc etc and therefore are not counted, that’s why there is a great discrepancy in figures. This started when industry was shipped overseas to places like China and the vast majority of working people were unable to find jobs – not everyone can go to university.
Western governments are so far behind in their programs for public housing it’s not funny that you have to wait years to even get a look in. Your statement is straight out of a government brochure.
You’re talking about medicare, perhaps you might look at one of Michael Moore’s docos on US health care industry and it might enlighten you. I believe it’s called Sicko. I hope you don’t fall ill and rely on your State’s medical help – ask what happens if you have to have ongoing treatment like Chemotherapy. So Obama is just blowing hot air about this medical issue? Even he stated that there are close to 50 million that cannot afford health care cover – this is your President not mine so if he lies then blame him.

However, if you want to go back to the beginning of the 90's - we need to talk about western sanctions which crippled Serbia and I might add criminalised a large section of society ie forced them to purchse black market goods. I honestly don't know how to calculate but I'm certain that due to EU, US actions (war and economy related) in the 90's to 2000 against Serbia cost the Serbian economy something approaching a billion euros.

(bganon, 23 February 2010)

That is all fair. However please apply the same analysis to Kosova and its society and the irreperable damage done to it by Serbia over the decades.

I remember growing up in Tirana and following the events in Kosova in the early 1980's and what struck me was that the entire political leadership in Kosova was highly edcuated and well respected by the Albanian populace, Rugova, Qosja, Bukoshi ta name a few.

Following the stripping of the province of its autonomy and the subsequent brutal repression of the Albanian nationalist movememnt saw the rise of the shadowy figures that dominate Kosova's political scene today. Kosova became a police state and the brutal repression gave rise to all sorts of criminal activites.

It'll take a generation before Kosova gets rid of what was sewn on its soil by Milosevic and its cronies.

SJ said:

"The current US official unemployment is 10%. Double it then you’ll be closer to the real figure and this is accepted by most leading economists. E.g. Australia is 5.3% real unemployment is 11%; Canada is 9.2%, but real is 18% and so on. "

-----------------------

In Australia if you are working 15 hours a week you are not counted as unemployed. Now how much can you earn if you work such hours?
Unemployment figures are always manipulated. Casual workers are also not counted as unemployed.

You're right sj, the figures are much higher when you take it all into account.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?

"150,000 people in Kosovo live on 45 cents"

Well this is less than 7% of the total population of Kosovo.

In Serbia 36% of the population lives under $1 (80 Euro cents).

SO Serbia is much worse than Kosovo anyways.

Kosovo really needs to be governed by Serbia again, the people there don't even know how to do some basic maths. Serbia will bring back the proper education.

Kosovo really needs to be governed by Serbia again, the people there don't even know how to do some basic maths. Serbia will bring back the proper education.
(AdamSRB, 23 February 2010 12:59)

If the teacher is inept, how can he/she teach the students?

Kosovo unlike Serbia couldnt take billions in loan to fed its ppl. Then again, I doubt these ppl had any better standards under Milosevic's regime, which begs the question, are majority of these Roma and Ashkali? They tend to hold secret their income and beg for more.

Thats the consequence of living in a failed state for people deluded enough to think 'hey, lets illegally seperate from Serbia & the investments will pour in!' Its the same irational self-deluded fantasy believing that got them into pyramid schemes, enverism & their disproven 'illyrian origin'. Albanians need to listen to Fatos Lubonja!

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010, 12:57)

2 million?

Show some facts or statistics to back this up.

"150,000 in Kosovo live on 45 cents"

The key word here is "LIVE". Unlike up to 10 years ago when their life was in constant danger of loss.

Additionally, their life may have not improved but their number is way lower from the time when Serb regime was in charge. As for Serbia's economic performance check the B92's "Economic Crisis in Serbia" and the "State of the State" video. Have in mind that this is after the schengen visa removal which means most of the poor are already oon the streets of my country and other Schengen countries.

"PRN,
maybe so, but it was Serbia that was bombed and economically destoyed by the US and EU.

What's Kosovo's excuse?
(Another Canadian Serb, 23 February 2010 14:43) "

This comment made me laugh....what do you think happened in Kosovo during 98/99 war?!!

What US and EU did to Serbia was nothing compared to the devastation that Serbia caused in Kosovo during the war and even before since beginning of 90s...

So.... Kosovo is Serbia, right?

(looks around - sees the agreement in the faces of the Serbian posters)

Excluding the various people from Albania and other places that have made Kosovo their home-country for the last 10 years, that must also mean that many of these poor people are also Serbian citizens, right?

(looks around, sees the somewhat puzzled agreement in the faces of the Serbian posters)

So why is it, with Serbia doing so much better (it is after all according to one poster here "the economic powerhouse of the Balkans) - Why is it, that these poor Serbian citizen do not take the plastic bag with their few belongings, and move into Serbia proper and apply for economic support from the Serbian government?
--

Show some facts or statistics to back this up.
(Jason, 23 February 2010 13:47)

I can show facts, but can you?

Entire Serbia does not evolve around only in Vojvodina and Belgrade with its sorroundings. These are the only places were people are rich, middle class or blue color. Once you drive south towards Kragujevac,Nis and other areas, people are living in dire conditions.
I have seen people wearing cloth from salvation army store. Actually they dont have cloth from a real store.

PRN,
"maybe so, but it was Serbia that was bombed and economically destoyed by the US and EU.

What's Kosovo's excuse?"
Another Canadian Serb

Indeed! Albanian run territories have done horribly. Albania has had all the time in the world but doesn't even have white schengen and is far far away from looking like a civilized society. The international community has been in Kosovo for 10 years and invested billions of dollars and still its a mess. Imagine what will happen when they leave!?!?
Some people are just not fit to govern but only to be govorned.

nikshala

Serbia considered and still does Kosovo as its own land. Why then would they destroy the infrastructure in Kosovo? The destruction in Kosovo was minimal and you know that. The destruction that did take place in Kosovo was thanks to NATO bombardment. Kosovo is a small territory and its amazing that billions and billions of dollars have not brought any progress to this territory. You can keep on blaming everyone else but we all know who is to blame, albanians themselves. You expected america to do the work you should do. However, the americans only care about their military base and care little about what else happens.

PRN,
maybe so, but it was Serbia that was bombed and economically destoyed by the US and EU.

What's Kosovo's excuse?

Nikshala I have to correct you and hope you will admit I am right.

Probably you are balancing the western (EU, US) response against Serbia vis a vis kosovo. However, if you want to go back to the beginning of the 90's - we need to talk about western sanctions which crippled Serbia and I might add criminalised a large section of society ie forced them to purchse black market goods. I honestly don't know how to calculate but I'm certain that due to EU, US actions (war and economy related) in the 90's to 2000 against Serbia cost the Serbian economy something approaching a billion euros.

Still, I'm not a fan of this 'we suffered most' competition, just wanted to point this out.

neoliberalism + high birth rate = the tragedy known as Kosovo
(vladimir gagic, 23 February 2010 18:33)
Spoken like a lawyer.
What do you know about Kosovo except for spelling it right? Actually, even that is wrong => Kosova.
Do you live or work in Kosovo? When were you last in Kosovo? Did you ever contribute anything for the wellfare of Kosovo?

one rather naive comment in the beginning says " 2 mil serbs live the same way - so what?"

I´d say that a significant number of Albanians here obviously have nothing more to contribute than either stupid provocations or like mentioned above writing pure nonsense.

is it the complete lack of knownledge that makes them write in that manner?

is it frustration, about having no perspective in their little "newborn" freak creation that can only last as long as foreign occupiers are there?

who knows, but one thing is for sure:

the average k-albanian will have to decide one day, whether he wants to live under these conditions or whether he wants a better life for him and his dearest.

that´s when they will realize that there is no "kosovaah" - only Serbia.

it´s only a question of time until simple criminals like Touchy and his comrades will leave their offices for some safe haven in the US or on a small pacific island...

neoliberalism + high birth rate = the tragedy known as Kosovo

k-usa- you are the first to comment on this piece and you set the tone for making it a political issue. If you have a problem with the piece then contact Daily Koha Ditore or the Institute for Social Policies who published this info.

You need to learn about the terrible effects of poverty.
From malnutrition to poor health care, substandard education and feelings of shame and family violence, poverty impacts every member of a family including and ESPECIALLY the children.

You are the one who appears to need educated.
(Roger7, 23 February 2010 19:51)

There is no question about that people thorughout this globe live in poverty. Some countries have more some less.
But, what is puzzling to me about you or anybody else quoting ' Koha Ditore'. Why don't you quote articles written by Koha Ditore when they report crimes comitted by Serbs or K-Serbs in Kosova, against K-Albanians and K-Serbs alike?

It doesn't matter how poor we are. I have post it before and i will post it again.We choose to die of famine,swine flu,or whatever other reason than accept being ruled by Serbia again. Ask any Kosovo Albanian and you will get the same answer. So serbs stop acting like you care about us. The only thing that we got from serbia was death and destruction. To the person that claims that Serbia was bombed that's why it is poor.Please tell me how many houses where bombed and burned.How many serbian refugies had to live serbia because of the bombs.

k-usa says..."So what is the big deal about this article?... If the teacher is inept, how can he/she teach the students?"

k-usa- you are the first to comment on this piece and you set the tone for making it a political issue. If you have a problem with the piece then contact Daily Koha Ditore or the Institute for Social Policies who published this info.

You need to learn about the terrible effects of poverty.
From malnutrition to poor health care, substandard education and feelings of shame and family violence, poverty impacts every member of a family including and ESPECIALLY the children.

You are the one who appears to need educated.

Let us review!
Kosovo is independent, the justice is corrupt, politicans/criminals possess millions.

And the only thing you are interesstest in, is the struggle against the North, because they don´t want be member of such a state.

May you focus your effort to get trust in the justice, take the money back for the politicans and start (together with your neighbours) attrackting international investment in jobs with trustbuilding.

Maybe this is why Albanians are lining up to get Serbian passports in Gracanica and leave? 150,000 doesn't represent Kosovo's poor. It represents Kosovo's abject poor; the poor, so the article says, that dreams about making it to the official poverty line. I'd say after 10 years of "liberation" if povery of this sort continues to exist in the "newest borned state", someone at the helm is skimming more than a little off the top. Perhaps Thaci et al should cease channeling money towards their clan constituents, stop wasting it on bribing states to recognize, stop spending it on useless ads on CNN, and certainly cease any activity in planning on integrating parts of their "country" that are happy to remain off Pristina's grid.

Comment: "We choose to die of famine,swine flu,or whatever other reason than accept being ruled by Serbia again.
(Mark, 23 February 2010 17:44)"

Mark, you will die from the corrupted politicans, because they don´t care of you, they only care of your money.
It doesn´t matter if you are ruled by the "bad Serbs" or these coruption. As long you don´t understand this your country will die.

And think forward: within Europe we all will have one Country! Then Kosovo and Serbia (togehter with a lot of others) will be one country again.
(robby, 23 February 2010 19:08)

Are you serious? So according to you the serbs that killed us are a better solution for us than our Albanian corrupted politicians? Do you realize that Serbia is also one of the most corrupted countries in Europe?

To Swiss

I tend to read the comments than writte in most cases but I thought I'd tell you how wrong you are in most of your comments, not personal of course I just think you are missinformed most of the time when it comes to Kosova and it's true people.

It the very subject of this article that should be the bases of why is Kosova in the state it is an why are so many of K. Alb in Swiss and throughout Eu. See it's simple manths that is if you know how to count of course, the biggest influx of imagrants from Kosova left in the early late 80s early 90s. Do not never wonder if Serbia was treating it's own "citizens" this way why would they leave their homeland from fear and depravation.
My friend it's policy that Serbia had and stuck to it 'you are either with us or againts us' now to explain this in real living terms these meant:
- if you are with us: I tell what to do, I will make sure I send you to fight against the croats and bosians
-if you are againts us: meaning you don't like our political policies well the only options were your are stuck In jail or you leave your family behind to go to swis, ger, UK etc.

Now the matter and the fact is that while srbian regime was in power 99% of the k. Alb were kicked out of any state run company, which meant all, I mean schools, hospitals, factories....

Now Swiss you can creat an opinion all you want but of k. Alb not meeting your western expecting diplomacy, it's just when it comes to Kosova - Serbia subject it's nothing to do with you is it?
We got what we wanted, now of course there is a price to pay for everything these days, if it means 10 -20 years with 7% leaving poorly as suppouse to 99% before 1999, well so be it we like this way :)

good day

If there was some local charitable organization in my hometown collecting money for Kosovars living on the poverty line than I would donate as much money as possible to assist these people.

What's the big deal here?
You have people in India living like animals 41-60% of entire population.
China also has a huge percentage 6-20% of people living with no income whatsoever.
And you guys call these two countries as superpowers.
There are poor people everywhere.

It is amasing how people read what they want to read not what was reported.

The article says:

the Gov of Kosova gives this amount for social aid. When you divide that amnount for 30 days and say 5 people you get 45 euro cents per day per person.

This doesn't mean that those people live with 45 euro cents per day. OK??? It is only reported the Gov expenditure. OK??? can you get tis or it is too complicated???

Most of those most people probably have also some work (in the informal economy) which is not captured by the official statistics.

So the message of the article was:

Govt of Kosova: you have to increase your expenditures for the social aid.

Anyhow, glade to feel the "love" comming from Serbia. You never miss the chance to show us how much you "love" us. Thank you for reminding us. But don't worry we never hade any doubst as we don't have any doubts that we will never ever be under your rule.

Comment: "We choose to die of famine,swine flu,or whatever other reason than accept being ruled by Serbia again.
(Mark, 23 February 2010 17:44)"

Mark, you will die from the corrupted politicans, because they don´t care of you, they only care of your money.
It doesn´t matter if you are ruled by the "bad Serbs" or these coruption. As long you don´t understand this your country will die.

And think forward: within Europe we all will have one Country! Then Kosovo and Serbia (togehter with a lot of others) will be one country again.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)
--
Nothing more to say here.
TRUE FACT

Kosovo-USA says,

"I can show facts, but can you?"

- Still waiting on the facts to support your assertion regarding 2 million Serbs.

"These are the only places were people are rich, middle class or blue color."

- I am not so sure about the blue-colored people you speak of... I heard they live quite happily in hollow trees along with the Keebler elves though.

"Once you drive south towards Kragujevac,Nis and other areas, people are living in dire conditions.
I have seen people wearing cloth from salvation army store."

- How can you tell clothing is from a Salvation Army store???

"Actually they dont have cloth from a real store.
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 18:36)"

- As opposed to a fake store?

Are these the "facts" you support your argument with?

Man, grow up.

Kosovoa, you are really amazing. Everything you read you automatically see if you can find something being the same, or worse, in Serbia. You claim to be independent of Serbia, why always the comparisons? BTW, what you state is a lie. Please grow up, and state the facts, your posts are ridiculous.

Well they're not going to get any richer by backing the bogus state of 'Kosova'.
Don't these people realise that they'd have better prospects as part of the Serbia state.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

We all knew that you have hatry for anything that has to do with Serbs but frankly that you even managed to turn into derision such a terrible news is simply beyond any respect for any human being.
Do you understand that with this kind of statement you are simply throughing in the garbage people that are suffering the hell, you have really no respect for nothing and I wished you would be ban from this site.

Never forget, this is an english speaking forum, meaning that a lot of foreigners like me are reading and believe me with attitude like yours, PRN, Pejoni your are only further ternishing the image that k-a are having!

I'm really sorry for these people, even more sorry that they are represented in their province by criminals like thaci and here by such low level blogers!

Last but not least, am so frustrated and angry at our FM who lied to our govnt while forcing the illegal UDI in the parliament.
This news is one out of so many that is exactly at the opposite direction than what she claimed at that time.

As always, the message is the same. Once you've designed your flag your country, be it Kosovo, Moldova, Palestine, needs to make/grow things that other people want to buy. Unless you do that, your country is going to be entirely reliant on international donations, political charity from a supposed ally (who will receive interest at some point) or recognise that being part of another nation in some way might be a more effective way of creating the situation where the citizens can be productive rather than finding that their pent-up emotions need to be kept in check by gangsters/police/internal security forces/UN. In short, building steel works, factories or creating intellectual patents that someone somewhere will buy from you is the only way forward and that applies to countries big and small.

Are you serious? So according to you the serbs that killed us are a better solution for us than our Albanian corrupted politicians? Do you realize that Serbia is also one of the most corrupted countries in Europe?
(Mark, 23 February 2010 20:28)
=========================

Enough already. Serbs that killed you are the same Serbs you tried to kill first.
The only reason they fired any shots in Kosovo was because of the attacks on the Serbian and non Albanian population of Kosovo. You started that war. What, did you expect to go on murdering the Serbs there without anyone fighting back?
When you are shot at you shoot back. You should've thought of that before you started the whole mess.

Why is everyone here suprised-albanians in Kosovo were always welfare nation.My father had to part with one day salary every single month for 30 years to help albanians in Kosovo.
West knew this,but that was small price to pay for another base.
Tragedy is that even that small welfare is just about to dry up for albanians in Kosovo.

(Mirub Jager, 23 February 2010 17:26)

(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 14:44)

You would think that these Albanians would keep quite on such as subject, but no they can’t help themselves trying to defend the indefensible. Here is the picture; Albanians living off 45 cents per day under freedom and democracy! Wake up boys this is the result of US/EU helping the Albanians in Kosovo.




2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

There are currently 90 million living below the poverty line in the US, but I suppose that freedom and democracy feeds and shelters them.

2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

You have out done even Jason and Jovan with this nonsense.

"# The only thing that we got from serbia was death and destruction.
(Mark, 23 February 2010 17:44)"

Be honest, before Milosevic, kosovo was heavily subsidized because of the generosity of Serbia. It was only when you proved to ungrateful and unloyal to your country (Serbia) that some privileges were revoked. The fact is that your quality of life would have been much better in Serbia (actually you are still a part of Serbia), then your current state which is the result of blind nationalism and separatism. Had you chosen a different path, Milosevic's kosovo policies would not have been necessary. There was life before Milosevic which you conveniently ignore.

However, if you want to go back to the beginning of the 90's - we need to talk about western sanctions which crippled Serbia and I might add criminalised a large section of society ie forced them to purchse black market goods. I honestly don't know how to calculate but I'm certain that due to EU, US actions (war and economy related) in the 90's to 2000 against Serbia cost the Serbian economy something approaching a billion euros.

(bganon, 23 February 2010)

That is all fair. However please apply the same analysis to Kosova and its society and the irreperable damage done to it by Serbia over the decades.

I remember growing up in Tirana and following the events in Kosova in the early 1980's and what struck me was that the entire political leadership in Kosova was highly edcuated and well respected by the Albanian populace, Rugova, Qosja, Bukoshi ta name a few.

Following the stripping of the province of its autonomy and the subsequent brutal repression of the Albanian nationalist movememnt saw the rise of the shadowy figures that dominate Kosova's political scene today. Kosova became a police state and the brutal repression gave rise to all sorts of criminal activites.

It'll take a generation before Kosova gets rid of what was sewn on its soil by Milosevic and its cronies.

Jan Andersen:

"The report states that about 150,000 Kosovo residents live off EUR 0.45 per day or EUR 14 a month, and that they demand that the government double this aid so that they can match that received by those living in the category of “extreme poverty”."

this implies that the people that were surveyed are people that recognize kosovo institution e.i. not serbs. Why else would they demand something from the Kosovo government? Though of course there's no way I can be absolutely sure about that.

I do not however like what you wrote here: "Why is it, that these poor Serbian citizen do not take the plastic bag with their few belongings, and move into Serbia proper and apply for economic support from the Serbian government?"

Yes these people are poor as well why do you make it sound like they have something to be ashamed of? Do they not deserve to stay in their home where they have always lived? I saw a documentary yesterday about serbs living in kosovo and they don't exactly live a great life, and now you use their situation for cheap points? Why do Albanians choose to stay in serbia (not just Kosovo) instead of going to Kosovo or Albania? I don't blame them, home is home.

Just an idea but since many Albanians in Kosova / Serbs in Serbia are self sufficient farmers living in rural areas wouldnt it make since that they could live below the financial poverty line? Farmers who live off the land don't require money for many things that someone who lives in a city does.

Cato,

Thank you for clarifying these outrageous comments with actual facts.

Kosovo-USA and Rocky, please make a note of it.

Comment: "Actually, even that is wrong => Kosova.
Do you live or work in Kosovo?..." (Mirub Jager)

The international Name for Kosovo is spelled "Kosovo"

It will likely be soon that 10 million people in America live off the same amount too Kosova-USA. With the number of people here that are collecting the pogie, and the number of people who have dropped off the back of that queue, I am surprised that you did not mention that in your once again exclusively irrationally biased statement. It is enough to say that it is hot in Mexico in July. One does not need to mention that it is also hot here in Texas, or in Spain, or in Dubai. A statement can stand be it self without the need to associate it to an equivalent or similar.
Furthermore it is snowy in Detroit in February, it is also snowy in Norway at the same time.
The point is that it is a statistic that has been collected, this statistic is trying to demonstrate the reality through scientific, mathematical logic and not through anecdotal experiences felt by someone living in NYC and giving the world the news from their telephone or skype buddies.

not that it really matters, but "In 2007 6,6% of the population lived below the national poverty line of Serbian Dinar 8,888 per month (approximately £80 per month)." which is more than 2.50$ a day.

http://www.humansecuritygateway.com/documents/DFID_Serbia_Factsheet.pdf

this is bad, but obviously it's not true that 2 million or 36% of serbian population live on 45 euroecent a day.

"What do you know about Kosovo except for spelling it right? Actually, even that is wrong => Kosova.
Do you live or work in Kosovo?..." (Mirub Jager)

-- Funny how you correct vladimir on the "correct" spelling of Kosovo, and then proceed to write it "incorrectly" yourself. Freudian slip there? :)

the blue "color" people thingy from kosova-usa made me giggle. everybody sing "i'm blue da ba dee da ba die..."

I can show facts, but can you?

Entire Serbia does not evolve around only in Vojvodina and Belgrade with its sorroundings. These are the only places were people are rich, middle class or blue color. Once you drive south towards Kragujevac,Nis and other areas, people are living in dire conditions.
I have seen people wearing cloth from salvation army store. Actually they dont have cloth from a real store.
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 18:36)
=======================

All I see is a lot of babble and still no evidence.
Again, produce some evidence to back up all this.

Who cares for that! The most important thing is that they are "independent state" now. Also it's more important to make the K-Serbs life in north more bitter.

It’s not 7% but more like 70% are living between 45cents and $2 dollars a day. I suppose freedom and democracy has its price – where is the west you might ask, well it’s too busy paying off Thaci and Co.

There are currently 90 million living below the poverty line in the US, but I suppose that freedom and democracy feeds and shelters them.
(sj, 23 February 2010 23:39)
2 mil serbs in Serbia live just the same. So , what is the big deal about this article?
(Kosova-USA, 23 February 2010 12:57)

It is clear to from much of the posts on this forum; individuals on both sides have made it a habit to exaggerate numbers. Be it to garner attention or malign another’s opinion. What does this kind of rhetoric accomplish?

So allow me to set some numbers down:
US poverty reaches on the high end 17%, that’s roughly 50 million people. (US poverty marks are indefinite, outliers such as college students, which can qualify as in poverty skew numbers and currently, the numbers are closer to 13%)
Serbia’s poverty levels is near 7%, roughly 500,000 people.
Kosovo’s poverty is given at near 7%, roughly 150,000 people.
Albania’s poverty is on the high end 25%, roughly 800,000 people.
And for some parody, the UK has a poverty level near 14%, about 8.5 million.

These are the numbers, far different from what has been stated. I can also see anti-American or anti-capitalistic comments will be forming to these numbers. Do not bother; they are moot, save your energy for a different argument that actually has merit.

i'd like to point out that figures provided by cato are incorrect at least in case of kosovo. world bank estimates that 45% of people in kosovo live below the poverty line of 1.4€ a day and 17% live in extreme poverty on just 90 euro cents a day. this article says that 7% of people live on half of those 90 euro cents.

these are absolute poverty lines valid in all countries. other figures usually talk about people who live below the national poverty line which is different from country to country. being poor in america and europe is not the same as being poor in africa. poverty line in western germany is something like 25€ a day, for example. in serbia the national poverty line is just 10% of that - 2.5€ - and 7% of the serbian population live on that or less.

thus, the poor in germany are much better of than the poor in serbia. but even the poor in serbia are considerably better off than the poor in kosovo. at least statistically. the poor themselves will disagree in all these countries, i'm sure.

"Today, the poor have basic cable and cell phones."

Cato, don't say things like this. What poor are you talking about? Countless homeless who sleep in parks and under bridges?
You can survive in America as long as you don't get sick. Then you run the risk of losing everything just to pay for medical care and drugs. How many were left with nothing because of that?

When majority of your population are postponing basic dental and medical care or just simply not having any because of not being able to afford it, then you have to ask yourself what use is that cell phone.

(Cato, 24 February 2010 06:29)
Governments have for decades loathed to provide accurate details of unemployment or levels of poverty because they really look bad.
But here is the conundrum! The official figures for poverty in the US prior to the world global crises was 47 million, but now after millions have lost their jobs, and continue to do so even today, you are now touting there is only 50 million or even less. There is something rotten in Denmark and it is not my information.
Even further the US figures for unemployment were initially 8%, but never went past 10%. Last Thursday I watching cable TV and heard the Australia Prime Minister say ”the US is having a difficult time with its economy and with 20% plus unemployment”. In fact some of your economists claim that it could be as high as 25%. Whether you agree or disagree the US is in a Depression not a Recession and the only thing cushioning this affect is money being spent by the Government.
As far as Serbia is concerned its Government says 700 000. In regard to Kosovo – the same US manipulators have got their hands on this one. It has no industry, it is a rural economy and its real unemployment figure would be closer if you put a zero after the number 7. The Albanians in Kosovo would be jumping for joy if it was only 7% and their youth would not be paying people smugglers to escape to the EU.
There are statistics and then there are lies. Sometimes it’s hard to tell the difference. There was an old Soviet joke – An old man reads in Pravda that SU produced on average 3 pairs of shoes for every citizen; he looks up and ask his friend, “then why are we all walking around barefoot?

Nice try attempting to hold an argument "Kosova-USA", you seem to have no evidence for anything you claim.

Peggy:

My question to you is that if you feel that some ethnic Albanians are accountable for their crimes or alleged crimes would you also agree that Serbs who commited or allegedly commited war crimes are also accountable as well? If you agree Peggy than that therefore makes you objective.
(Just Curious, 24 February 2010 17:09)
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Absolutely.
Everyone who has committed crimes should face justice.
Justice should be the same for all. Without it we can never have peace. The problem is that politics is such that the rich man decides who gets justice and who doesn't.

David Wright - I hope you were not being serious. Maybe in the nineteenth century it would have been better, but not now! To farm you need to buy fuel, feeds, fertilizers, seeds. Then there are electricity bills, local taxes, transport costs. And what about other items, fridges, televisions, etc. Do you expect that people can simply forego all this to live a subsistence pre-modern life?

There is no point even trying to put a gloss on this report.

To all my albanian friends. There is some truth about this article, and we, people of Kosova know this.
I am a Kosovarian myself and I know this. The question is; What are we doing about this? Every single person complains about different things in Kosova, but what are we all doing to make it better? I also complain but I also do something about this even that I'm sufering. I don't care that I'm going through hard times. I know its like a water drop in the sea, but if each of us do little about it, then for sure we can change for better.
You see my friends, when we complain and do nothing but sit in front of TV or PC, we only give others the chance to laugh and make fun of our lifes!

Peggy:

My question to you is that if you feel that some ethnic Albanians are accountable for their crimes or alleged crimes would you also agree that Serbs who commited or allegedly commited war crimes are also accountable as well? If you agree Peggy than that therefore makes you objective.

There are currently 90 million living below the poverty line in the US, but I suppose that freedom and democracy feeds and shelters them.
(sj, 23 February 2010 23:39)
Your numbers are greatly exaggerated but the rest of the quote is true.
A family at or below the poverty level qualifies for food stamps. A family of 4 would receive between 500 and 800 dollars a month. That is equal to or more than I spend on food for my family.
We also have public housing, not only govt built homes and apartments but HUD program where people can find rental homes in their own community for free or reduced rent.
Also each state has medicaid programs for those who cannot afford healthcare.
As to your figures of 25% unemployment, I think it is time to change channels on your choice of news stations.
In todays world anyone can say anything, it just does not make it factual.

I stand corrected on the numbers from Kosovo. From a document published by the World Bank in 2007, from the years of 02 to 06, the poverty level hovered from 35 to 40 percent. However, the number of people determined to be living in rural areas are roughly the same percentage. One can read into this how they would like.

Secondly, in regards to the US, unemployment and poverty are vastly different issues. As you have stated, “the only thing cushioning this affect is money being spent by the Government.” Thus because of this, even many poor are still above the poverty line. I too remember a story: the Soviets touted to their peoples that their economy was far superior to the Americans, pointing out the large number of people unemployed or in “poverty” in the US. But when they saw clips of the Americans on television, even in the projects and ghettos, they poor had color television.

Today, the poor have basic cable and cell phones.

Poverty lines are in truth arbitrary and ambiguous, it is not a universal measuring stick. It is often done to the surrounding population. The bottom line however, there are far too many people in the world that are suffering. I would try to recommend that the negative speech stop, but I know all too well that there is too much hate bottled up many on here. So, continue on as you were and accomplish nothing.

The current US official unemployment is 10%. Double it then you’ll be closer to the real figure and this is accepted by most leading economists. E.g. Australia is 5.3% real unemployment is 11%; Canada is 9.2%, but real is 18% and so on.
Unemployed is hidden in various programs such as retraining, training for skills to be employable etc etc and therefore are not counted, that’s why there is a great discrepancy in figures. This started when industry was shipped overseas to places like China and the vast majority of working people were unable to find jobs – not everyone can go to university.
Western governments are so far behind in their programs for public housing it’s not funny that you have to wait years to even get a look in. Your statement is straight out of a government brochure.
You’re talking about medicare, perhaps you might look at one of Michael Moore’s docos on US health care industry and it might enlighten you. I believe it’s called Sicko. I hope you don’t fall ill and rely on your State’s medical help – ask what happens if you have to have ongoing treatment like Chemotherapy. So Obama is just blowing hot air about this medical issue? Even he stated that there are close to 50 million that cannot afford health care cover – this is your President not mine so if he lies then blame him.

SJ said:

"The current US official unemployment is 10%. Double it then you’ll be closer to the real figure and this is accepted by most leading economists. E.g. Australia is 5.3% real unemployment is 11%; Canada is 9.2%, but real is 18% and so on. "

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In Australia if you are working 15 hours a week you are not counted as unemployed. Now how much can you earn if you work such hours?
Unemployment figures are always manipulated. Casual workers are also not counted as unemployed.

You're right sj, the figures are much higher when you take it all into account.