EU leaders to discuss Greek solvency plan

Luigi:

Greece can cope with her own money as well. The solidarity pact that the Greek goverment anounced, is one of the hardest and the strictiest that a European goverment ever took. Soon the situation will be much better simply because Greece decided to do what the other European goverments (like the Italian with the vast public sector and deficit...) will never dare to do (Those countries are in a VERY similar situation with Greece). Massive cuts on public salaries (some reach 25%), change of taxation, change on the limit ages for pensions. These measures are "science fiction" for the Italian or the Spanish goverment with their (similarily) huge deficits and public depts.

And I repeat one more thing: Greece has NOT asked for any money. The Greek prime minister repeteated it publically just yesterday. "We just want their political support in order to stop the speculators attacks on the Greek economy. "WE DON'T ASK OR DON'T WANT ANY MONEY".

Now if the Germans or the EU in total are worried about the continuous devaluation of the Euro and wish to stop that much sooner by giving a strong message to international markets, they can give money to Greece. But this is their problem mainlly, not Greece's. Greece did not ask it clearly.

PS: Greece decided to buy 6 last generation frigates from France just yesterday (during the meeting of the French president with the Greek prime minister), costing more than 2 billion Euros cash.....

As i said before EU will bail out Greece in the name of solidarity and in the name of possible contagion...but Greece must pay for the false numbers it has produced since the Euro entry that's what everybody is saing here in Italy...Portugal and Spain can for the moment cope with their debt with own money...
(Luigi, 11 February 2010 11:23)

You could also say that Italy cooked the books when they joined the EMU back in 1997.

I agree with you that the EU will help Greece to avoid bankruptcy but not for reasons of solidarity but to maintain Greec'e ability to buy 6 new French frigates and the new generation of Mirage fighters,conclude the German submarines deal and order a few dozens Euro-fighters.You only have to look at the trade deficit between between Greece and Germany and know who is benefiting from EU.

With regard to the present crisis theGreeks are in fact paying for the bailouts in the West."The speculating industry" was bailed out to the tune of $14-$21 TRILLION.
And now it is back in the business of speculating on Greece's credit.
And the solution for them is to cut pensions, wages and social services in Greece.
Greece had no banks to bailout as not a single Greek bank required state funds to remain solvent. And there was no crash in home prices there either.

However,successive Greek goverments have contibuted to
the current situation to a large extent with their public spending disastrous policies.

Greece spends the highest GDP percentage in EU for public services although some of them are completely ineffective, and at the same time the private sector lacks competitiveness.
From some aspects Greek economy looks like the former communist countries' economies.

I don't think any bailout will solve the eurozone's problems.Any will bailout will be interpreted as a eurozone defense against speculation that may undermine euro, and could have the domino effect on other weekk links within the Eurozone.

Simply the idea of "one size fits all"in terms of one monetary policy within the Eurozone is fundamentally flawed.

Luigi:

I again repeat what you don't seem to understand or what you deliberately avoid to understand.

The "European ASSISTANCE plan" as you write it, is NOT going to include any money given by the EU! Nothing! It is trully going to allow Greece borrow at lower rates but only because the Greek Euro bond has actually "gone to space" (around 400 units) only because the Speculators are continously attacking the Greek economy for the last two months! So it is clear. NO MONEY WILL BE GIVEN!

Our Prime Minister (and not the President as you said..) went to France with a hut, yes you are 100%! But tt was a GREEK hut full of 2 billion Euros GREEK MONEY for the French frigates - given to France for the political support they will offer. It was GREEK MONEY GIVEN TO FRANCE AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. So, don't try to cause false and fake conclusions in here...

PS: And actuallly Greek politicians are definetely much better than Belrusconi...

monetary policy within the Eurozone is fundamentally flawed.
(Leonidas, 11 February 2010 13:50)

You forgot to mention that the german banks are the most exposed in greek bonds, so business as usual...

Nevertheless it is really about time for Greece to put some order in his fiscal policy...
I realized last year when I made a motobike tour in your beautiful country how big the paralell economy is and of course this isn't good or the state treasury.

But your are right, Greece isn't the only "bad boy" but it was easier for some (US) hedge funds to attack you than Italy!

...and in the end we come back to the key role of Germany, because that’s at present the only country which has some resources left and which could intervene with a substantial fund”
--
contagion

Definition
When an economic crisis in one country's bond or equity markets spreads to other countries which experience the same problems. The term comes from the more general definition of contagion, which is a highly transmittable disease.
--
Well, it looks like the EU is a sick puppy. Germany's dream has always been to control Europe so I wonder whether this "highly transmittable disease" will spread and eventually defeat Germany?

PRN
====

Actually, that "honor" goes to Bulgaria and Romania.

What I fail to understand about Greece at the moment is how the country is willing to waste billions on military equipment, given all its other problems. I mean, it's not like no one in Greece knew about the lousy state of finances for some time and yet they're willing to spend money on toys.

@leonidas@the greek
Dear Greek friends please don't repeat what your Politicians continously say..we all know that your President has gone to France with the hat in his hand ..don.t fool yourself without the Eu help Greece is collapsed because can't serve his debt and can't find anyone who WOULD buy his debt papers..with the European ASSISTANCE plan Greece will be able go to the financial markets and borrow at low interest rates..without it Greece is naked ... I hope all this thing will work and you willgo out from this situation as quickly as possible but it's clear that
everything has a cost and you will pay for what your politicians have done since the Euro entry...

Greece is the MOST corrputed and cheeky country in Europe, even more than Serbia.

I really dont know how on earth EU is not firing from EU club.

monetary policy within the Eurozone is fundamentally flawed.
(Leonidas, 11 February 2010 13:50)

You forgot to mention that the german banks are the most exposed in greek bonds, so business as usual...

Nevertheless it is really about time for Greece to put some order in his fiscal policy...
I realized last year when I made a motobike tour in your beautiful country how big the paralell economy is and of course this isn't good or the state treasury.

But your are right, Greece isn't the only "bad boy" but it was easier for some (US) hedge funds to attack you than Italy!
(The Swiss, 11 February 2010 21:55)

My point on setting monetary policy targets is that low interest rates are beneficial to German industry but not beneficial to Spain or Greece where public and private borrowing has gone through the roof.

In Spain, for example,cheap borrowing has led to the housing crash.Thousands of foreigners investing in Spanish property have seen their investments dwindling.

You're right about Greek fiscal policy being in tatters.This is been going on for years.

I think the biggest problem the Eurozone economy is facing is the absense of a common fiscal policy which hinders the application of monetary policy.

As i said before EU will bail out Greece in the name of solidarity and in the name of possible contagion...but Greece must pay for the false numbers it has produced since the Euro entry that's what everybody is saing here in Italy...Portugal and Spain can for the moment cope with their debt with own money...

Also the financial exposure of Germain, French and UK banks in Greece and in general in the PIGS countries is enormous. See link
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aCrRNlbKtrss&pos=15

Greece is the MOST corrputed and cheeky country in Europe, even more than Serbia.

I really dont know how on earth EU is not firing from EU club.

@leonidas@the greek
Dear Greek friends please don't repeat what your Politicians continously say..we all know that your President has gone to France with the hat in his hand ..don.t fool yourself without the Eu help Greece is collapsed because can't serve his debt and can't find anyone who WOULD buy his debt papers..with the European ASSISTANCE plan Greece will be able go to the financial markets and borrow at low interest rates..without it Greece is naked ... I hope all this thing will work and you willgo out from this situation as quickly as possible but it's clear that
everything has a cost and you will pay for what your politicians have done since the Euro entry...

As i said before EU will bail out Greece in the name of solidarity and in the name of possible contagion...but Greece must pay for the false numbers it has produced since the Euro entry that's what everybody is saing here in Italy...Portugal and Spain can for the moment cope with their debt with own money...

Luigi:

Greece can cope with her own money as well. The solidarity pact that the Greek goverment anounced, is one of the hardest and the strictiest that a European goverment ever took. Soon the situation will be much better simply because Greece decided to do what the other European goverments (like the Italian with the vast public sector and deficit...) will never dare to do (Those countries are in a VERY similar situation with Greece). Massive cuts on public salaries (some reach 25%), change of taxation, change on the limit ages for pensions. These measures are "science fiction" for the Italian or the Spanish goverment with their (similarily) huge deficits and public depts.

And I repeat one more thing: Greece has NOT asked for any money. The Greek prime minister repeteated it publically just yesterday. "We just want their political support in order to stop the speculators attacks on the Greek economy. "WE DON'T ASK OR DON'T WANT ANY MONEY".

Now if the Germans or the EU in total are worried about the continuous devaluation of the Euro and wish to stop that much sooner by giving a strong message to international markets, they can give money to Greece. But this is their problem mainlly, not Greece's. Greece did not ask it clearly.

PS: Greece decided to buy 6 last generation frigates from France just yesterday (during the meeting of the French president with the Greek prime minister), costing more than 2 billion Euros cash.....

Luigi:

I again repeat what you don't seem to understand or what you deliberately avoid to understand.

The "European ASSISTANCE plan" as you write it, is NOT going to include any money given by the EU! Nothing! It is trully going to allow Greece borrow at lower rates but only because the Greek Euro bond has actually "gone to space" (around 400 units) only because the Speculators are continously attacking the Greek economy for the last two months! So it is clear. NO MONEY WILL BE GIVEN!

Our Prime Minister (and not the President as you said..) went to France with a hut, yes you are 100%! But tt was a GREEK hut full of 2 billion Euros GREEK MONEY for the French frigates - given to France for the political support they will offer. It was GREEK MONEY GIVEN TO FRANCE AND NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND. So, don't try to cause false and fake conclusions in here...

PS: And actuallly Greek politicians are definetely much better than Belrusconi...

As i said before EU will bail out Greece in the name of solidarity and in the name of possible contagion...but Greece must pay for the false numbers it has produced since the Euro entry that's what everybody is saing here in Italy...Portugal and Spain can for the moment cope with their debt with own money...
(Luigi, 11 February 2010 11:23)

You could also say that Italy cooked the books when they joined the EMU back in 1997.

I agree with you that the EU will help Greece to avoid bankruptcy but not for reasons of solidarity but to maintain Greec'e ability to buy 6 new French frigates and the new generation of Mirage fighters,conclude the German submarines deal and order a few dozens Euro-fighters.You only have to look at the trade deficit between between Greece and Germany and know who is benefiting from EU.

With regard to the present crisis theGreeks are in fact paying for the bailouts in the West."The speculating industry" was bailed out to the tune of $14-$21 TRILLION.
And now it is back in the business of speculating on Greece's credit.
And the solution for them is to cut pensions, wages and social services in Greece.
Greece had no banks to bailout as not a single Greek bank required state funds to remain solvent. And there was no crash in home prices there either.

However,successive Greek goverments have contibuted to
the current situation to a large extent with their public spending disastrous policies.

Greece spends the highest GDP percentage in EU for public services although some of them are completely ineffective, and at the same time the private sector lacks competitiveness.
From some aspects Greek economy looks like the former communist countries' economies.

I don't think any bailout will solve the eurozone's problems.Any will bailout will be interpreted as a eurozone defense against speculation that may undermine euro, and could have the domino effect on other weekk links within the Eurozone.

Simply the idea of "one size fits all"in terms of one monetary policy within the Eurozone is fundamentally flawed.

...and in the end we come back to the key role of Germany, because that’s at present the only country which has some resources left and which could intervene with a substantial fund”
--
contagion

Definition
When an economic crisis in one country's bond or equity markets spreads to other countries which experience the same problems. The term comes from the more general definition of contagion, which is a highly transmittable disease.
--
Well, it looks like the EU is a sick puppy. Germany's dream has always been to control Europe so I wonder whether this "highly transmittable disease" will spread and eventually defeat Germany?

PRN
====

Actually, that "honor" goes to Bulgaria and Romania.

What I fail to understand about Greece at the moment is how the country is willing to waste billions on military equipment, given all its other problems. I mean, it's not like no one in Greece knew about the lousy state of finances for some time and yet they're willing to spend money on toys.

Also the financial exposure of Germain, French and UK banks in Greece and in general in the PIGS countries is enormous. See link
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601109&sid=aCrRNlbKtrss&pos=15

monetary policy within the Eurozone is fundamentally flawed.
(Leonidas, 11 February 2010 13:50)

You forgot to mention that the german banks are the most exposed in greek bonds, so business as usual...

Nevertheless it is really about time for Greece to put some order in his fiscal policy...
I realized last year when I made a motobike tour in your beautiful country how big the paralell economy is and of course this isn't good or the state treasury.

But your are right, Greece isn't the only "bad boy" but it was easier for some (US) hedge funds to attack you than Italy!

monetary policy within the Eurozone is fundamentally flawed.
(Leonidas, 11 February 2010 13:50)

You forgot to mention that the german banks are the most exposed in greek bonds, so business as usual...

Nevertheless it is really about time for Greece to put some order in his fiscal policy...
I realized last year when I made a motobike tour in your beautiful country how big the paralell economy is and of course this isn't good or the state treasury.

But your are right, Greece isn't the only "bad boy" but it was easier for some (US) hedge funds to attack you than Italy!
(The Swiss, 11 February 2010 21:55)

My point on setting monetary policy targets is that low interest rates are beneficial to German industry but not beneficial to Spain or Greece where public and private borrowing has gone through the roof.

In Spain, for example,cheap borrowing has led to the housing crash.Thousands of foreigners investing in Spanish property have seen their investments dwindling.

You're right about Greek fiscal policy being in tatters.This is been going on for years.

I think the biggest problem the Eurozone economy is facing is the absense of a common fiscal policy which hinders the application of monetary policy.