Still no consensus on Srebrenica resolution

The Tadic Government can throw themselves in a furnace if the like, but it a resounding NO to this resolution – get your bonuses from the US/EU some other way.
A dying empire trying to impose its will against a people that stood up against the greatest evil of the late 20 Century. Let the EU/US first pass resolutions condemning their murderous policies in the Middle East which have caused hundreds of thousands of lives and many other places around the world, and let them seek forgiveness from those families that have lost loved ones due to their murderous campaigns and then come and lay guilt trips on my doorstep.
If the EU does not like, well tough! But knowing these people they are only bluffing as the always do – the EU is desperate to get Serbia in its clutches and if along the way they can somehow imbed a guilty trip on a nation, well that’s even better. There is an obsession with this Srebrenica business that borders on a personality disorder – they are frothing at the mouth to get Serbs to admit to a “genocide” and the quality of politicians in the Serbian Government at the moment can only be described as “scrapings from the very bottom of a barrel”.
However, it’s amazing that the EU/US, those freedom loving, human rights hugging countries, are not saying a word about the Croats. Nor are they forcing the Croats to issue an admission of guilt for burning people alive in their houses when they thought that they could win against the Bosniaks.
Nor are the western lovers of human rights forcing to the Croats to admit to the murders committed during their “famous” military foray called “Operation Storm”, murdering old men, women and children.
If Serbs were to admit to a ‘genocide” in Srebrenica then all actions taken by the US/EU through NATO is totally justified. That’s the real motive behind the resolution. However, when the west has addressed the concerns I have raised then they can come back and we can have a real discussion about anything they like.

Enough already with this garbage. The Serbian people are overwhelmingly against this resolution!
It's amazing that Serbs, the biggest victims of genocide in the Balkans, who have been ethnicaly cleansed from Croatia, large parts of Bosnia, and Kosovo, have been bombed for no reason, have been sanctioned for no reason, have been denied the right to self determination like all other groups...They are now being told by immoral imperialists to pass a resolution that they comitted genocide while all others have not. Truly unbelievable. It's great to see the imperialists efforts are failing and Serbian people are not gullible and brainwashed like some of our politicians.
Perhaps we need Russia to speak up again and tell the US to quit trying to weaken Serbia by spreading such hate propoganda.

Money hurts. They ALL know that is was a genicide, but if they admit they will have to pay billions of Euros to the victims.

'If Serbs were to admit to a ‘genocide” in Srebrenica then all actions taken by the US/EU through NATO is totally justified.'

sj I think this is an exaggeration. NATO bombardment of Serbia had nothing to do with Srebrenica, it was kosovo they bombed us for.

If you want to look at it from a western perspective this resolution could potentially go in the direction of preserving Bosnia - ie of preventing Rep Srpska from gaining independence. But to be honest with you I don't think this decleration will make a shred of difference either domestically, legally or internationally.

Aside from the moral reasons, the argument made by Tadic is that this resolution would strengthen Serbian diplomacy on other fronts by increasing respect in western capitals. Sounds a bit optimistic to me.

I would like to give thumbs up to bganon, for every single coment of his. I must admit that his coments are not one sided or blind, like most of other coments including some of mine.
Unfortunately my coments with facts never make it, but when I write one sided coment they always do.
Again, I take my hat off to your your coments Sir.
Wish everybody's coments will be realistic as possible, rather than myths and witchcraft.

Justice and recognision for All victims of civil war in Yugo, or none. Your victim is not more valuable then mine.

bganon:

Do you work for ceda jovanovic?

Ok SJ, What do you call a terrible act such as the one in Srebrenica? a car accident! a natural disaster! a mass suicidal cult! Are you for real?
We are talking here about Srebrenica and until Serbia opens the door to recognition of terrible crimes that happened in '90s ther is no way they can accuse or bring up any other crimes done by/to them.

(Mirub Jager, 8 February 2010 17:51)

I always recall Josef Goebbels who used to say that if you repeat a lie loud enough and long enough then it becomes the truth. There was a rumour about an impending “massacre” as long ago as late 1992 and since that time I was to learn the Alia Izetbegovic was being pressured by the US into creating such an event, but he was against it for whatever reasons.

Then we had the Sarajevo street market massacre – the event where the US used this incident to place the heaviest sanction on any country in history where mail or money was difficult to send to Yugoslavia. This little incident was investigated by the UN and the official report stated that the trajectory of incoming mortar shells proved without doubt that they did not come from Serb-held territory, but were actually fired from within the City itself i.e. from the Bosniak side. Naturally, the US suppressed the findings.

I could also mention many other incidents such as the Serb who was on trial for the murder of two Bosniak brothers when these guys came back from Sweden on a holiday – they had left Bosnia just after the start of the war.

I am not denying that no one was killed in Srebrenica; far from it, but not in the numbers being peddled by the west or Bosniak side. There are numerous cases where people, or even whole families, were allegedly killed by Serbs only to turn up alive and well, but used as propaganda.

I suggest that you first approach your US allies and ask for a resolution for the 10,000 Albanians they killed from bombing of Kosovo and then blamed it on “Milosevic”. Ehud Barak, in a fit of anger for being criticized by the EU for bombing Lebanon in 2006, stated “who gives them the right to criticize Israel when the Europeans killed 10,000 and not one missile was fired at them”. In rage we tend to say many truths.

(bganon, 8 February 2010 17:08)

Firstly, NATO planes did bomb Serbs in Bosnia after the Dayton Agreement was signed to allegedly them back to agreed positions – it was a symbolic act for NATO. They also bombed Serbs in Krajina after agreement was reached to have JNA forces withdrawn.

Secondly, once the Srebrenica matter is “bedded” then it would be a Kosovo resolution, then a Croatian resolution – you get the drift now.

The west attempts to preserve Bosnia because otherwise if RS leaves the rest would become an Islamic backwater in the middle of Europe, but this is what Europe deserves. However, it’s only a matter of time when RS does leave Bosnia regardless of the huffing and puffing.

If you really want to know what is keeping RS in Bosnia its called MONEY. While the rest of the EU is tightening its belts RS is getting its normal share of aid. Hey! the EU told Croatia that aid was being reduced drastically as part of an austerity program, then Croatia closed down military bases over the winter period beginning in December 2009 because it did not have the money to feed its soldiers and had sent them home. This one has been kept very quiet indeed.

A declaration is an admission of guilt plain and simple. It’s something the US wants to hit Serbs over the head at every possible opportunity. I don’t mind admitting to something I have done but I refuse to accept guilt for a non-existent crime on the scale claimed by the UE/US.

You concern yourself too much with “increasing respect in western capitals”. Who cares about respect in western capitals; the west is on the verge of becoming irrelevant. I suggest that you look towards the future and seek respect in Bejing or New Delhi. Notice how quiet the US has become since China started tightening the screws – it’s called the US coming to terms with the new masters.

Ratko, no I kept trying but some guy called Roberto told him I was a secret nationalist and not to employ me. Its a pity because I do love a hero!

That was a joke Roberto, don't go all crazy on me...

Kosova USA I try my best, but my advice to you is to try to be less one sided. Its not so easy, or as much fun as fighting battles, but empathy and understanding is the root to humanity.

No matter what happens nobody can take humanity away from you if you don't let them.

Bganon, u are right in most of ur comment but honestly as a foreigner who has been travelling in the all region for a number of years now I feel that we have been "brain washed" by the politics and the media during the war, basically picturing the Serbs as some sort of monsters!
Nothing can excuse what happend but we are also seeking to uncover who were the forces behind that balkan tragedy!
The more one look into it the more leads bring to the same lies that have been covering other unecessary wars in the past and are still doing it!
At the end people were and are still suffering fm criminal acts of politicians fm inside as well as fm outside, Irak is such a clear example of that with 100 of thousands of people who died and are still dying thanks to a today proven illegal invasion !
I think, and am without any doubts not the only one, that Serbs have already come a long way in acknowledging the past and taking steps to comdemn the guilty one and it will be about time that the others surrounding will start doing the same, only that can bring some sort of peace!
However, reading the nationalist comments here gives me little hope that the people themselves would want to recongnize that their respective leaders were criminaly involved in this tragedy, nor would they want to have the truth uncovered! Really sad...

bgannon makes a nice balanced post and I agree with it for the most part.

However, if the resolution passes and genocide is mentioned, then there is a potential for an appeal or yet another law suit by Bosnia for war rapparations against Serbia, only this time Serbia would hand them the guilty verdict from the get go. While on the other hand Serbia would have nothing to counter attack with, as no other ethnicity in Ex-Yu has (or perhaps ever will) adopted such a resolution.

All sides committed crimes and all should pay for them in their due proportions. If the EU pushed for a common resultion for all Ex-Yu states (perhaps as a condition of EU membership), requiring them to all pay their dues than I would support this. But this is not in the interest of Brussels becuase they already have everyone except Serbs wrapped around their little finger.

Money hurts. They ALL know that is was a genicide, but if they admit they will have to pay billions of Euros to the victims.

Ok SJ, What do you call a terrible act such as the one in Srebrenica? a car accident! a natural disaster! a mass suicidal cult! Are you for real?
We are talking here about Srebrenica and until Serbia opens the door to recognition of terrible crimes that happened in '90s ther is no way they can accuse or bring up any other crimes done by/to them.

'If Serbs were to admit to a ‘genocide” in Srebrenica then all actions taken by the US/EU through NATO is totally justified.'

sj I think this is an exaggeration. NATO bombardment of Serbia had nothing to do with Srebrenica, it was kosovo they bombed us for.

If you want to look at it from a western perspective this resolution could potentially go in the direction of preserving Bosnia - ie of preventing Rep Srpska from gaining independence. But to be honest with you I don't think this decleration will make a shred of difference either domestically, legally or internationally.

Aside from the moral reasons, the argument made by Tadic is that this resolution would strengthen Serbian diplomacy on other fronts by increasing respect in western capitals. Sounds a bit optimistic to me.

I would like to give thumbs up to bganon, for every single coment of his. I must admit that his coments are not one sided or blind, like most of other coments including some of mine.
Unfortunately my coments with facts never make it, but when I write one sided coment they always do.
Again, I take my hat off to your your coments Sir.
Wish everybody's coments will be realistic as possible, rather than myths and witchcraft.

The Tadic Government can throw themselves in a furnace if the like, but it a resounding NO to this resolution – get your bonuses from the US/EU some other way.
A dying empire trying to impose its will against a people that stood up against the greatest evil of the late 20 Century. Let the EU/US first pass resolutions condemning their murderous policies in the Middle East which have caused hundreds of thousands of lives and many other places around the world, and let them seek forgiveness from those families that have lost loved ones due to their murderous campaigns and then come and lay guilt trips on my doorstep.
If the EU does not like, well tough! But knowing these people they are only bluffing as the always do – the EU is desperate to get Serbia in its clutches and if along the way they can somehow imbed a guilty trip on a nation, well that’s even better. There is an obsession with this Srebrenica business that borders on a personality disorder – they are frothing at the mouth to get Serbs to admit to a “genocide” and the quality of politicians in the Serbian Government at the moment can only be described as “scrapings from the very bottom of a barrel”.
However, it’s amazing that the EU/US, those freedom loving, human rights hugging countries, are not saying a word about the Croats. Nor are they forcing the Croats to issue an admission of guilt for burning people alive in their houses when they thought that they could win against the Bosniaks.
Nor are the western lovers of human rights forcing to the Croats to admit to the murders committed during their “famous” military foray called “Operation Storm”, murdering old men, women and children.
If Serbs were to admit to a ‘genocide” in Srebrenica then all actions taken by the US/EU through NATO is totally justified. That’s the real motive behind the resolution. However, when the west has addressed the concerns I have raised then they can come back and we can have a real discussion about anything they like.

Enough already with this garbage. The Serbian people are overwhelmingly against this resolution!
It's amazing that Serbs, the biggest victims of genocide in the Balkans, who have been ethnicaly cleansed from Croatia, large parts of Bosnia, and Kosovo, have been bombed for no reason, have been sanctioned for no reason, have been denied the right to self determination like all other groups...They are now being told by immoral imperialists to pass a resolution that they comitted genocide while all others have not. Truly unbelievable. It's great to see the imperialists efforts are failing and Serbian people are not gullible and brainwashed like some of our politicians.
Perhaps we need Russia to speak up again and tell the US to quit trying to weaken Serbia by spreading such hate propoganda.

bganon:

Do you work for ceda jovanovic?

Ratko, no I kept trying but some guy called Roberto told him I was a secret nationalist and not to employ me. Its a pity because I do love a hero!

That was a joke Roberto, don't go all crazy on me...

Kosova USA I try my best, but my advice to you is to try to be less one sided. Its not so easy, or as much fun as fighting battles, but empathy and understanding is the root to humanity.

No matter what happens nobody can take humanity away from you if you don't let them.

Justice and recognision for All victims of civil war in Yugo, or none. Your victim is not more valuable then mine.

(Mirub Jager, 8 February 2010 17:51)

I always recall Josef Goebbels who used to say that if you repeat a lie loud enough and long enough then it becomes the truth. There was a rumour about an impending “massacre” as long ago as late 1992 and since that time I was to learn the Alia Izetbegovic was being pressured by the US into creating such an event, but he was against it for whatever reasons.

Then we had the Sarajevo street market massacre – the event where the US used this incident to place the heaviest sanction on any country in history where mail or money was difficult to send to Yugoslavia. This little incident was investigated by the UN and the official report stated that the trajectory of incoming mortar shells proved without doubt that they did not come from Serb-held territory, but were actually fired from within the City itself i.e. from the Bosniak side. Naturally, the US suppressed the findings.

I could also mention many other incidents such as the Serb who was on trial for the murder of two Bosniak brothers when these guys came back from Sweden on a holiday – they had left Bosnia just after the start of the war.

I am not denying that no one was killed in Srebrenica; far from it, but not in the numbers being peddled by the west or Bosniak side. There are numerous cases where people, or even whole families, were allegedly killed by Serbs only to turn up alive and well, but used as propaganda.

I suggest that you first approach your US allies and ask for a resolution for the 10,000 Albanians they killed from bombing of Kosovo and then blamed it on “Milosevic”. Ehud Barak, in a fit of anger for being criticized by the EU for bombing Lebanon in 2006, stated “who gives them the right to criticize Israel when the Europeans killed 10,000 and not one missile was fired at them”. In rage we tend to say many truths.

(bganon, 8 February 2010 17:08)

Firstly, NATO planes did bomb Serbs in Bosnia after the Dayton Agreement was signed to allegedly them back to agreed positions – it was a symbolic act for NATO. They also bombed Serbs in Krajina after agreement was reached to have JNA forces withdrawn.

Secondly, once the Srebrenica matter is “bedded” then it would be a Kosovo resolution, then a Croatian resolution – you get the drift now.

The west attempts to preserve Bosnia because otherwise if RS leaves the rest would become an Islamic backwater in the middle of Europe, but this is what Europe deserves. However, it’s only a matter of time when RS does leave Bosnia regardless of the huffing and puffing.

If you really want to know what is keeping RS in Bosnia its called MONEY. While the rest of the EU is tightening its belts RS is getting its normal share of aid. Hey! the EU told Croatia that aid was being reduced drastically as part of an austerity program, then Croatia closed down military bases over the winter period beginning in December 2009 because it did not have the money to feed its soldiers and had sent them home. This one has been kept very quiet indeed.

A declaration is an admission of guilt plain and simple. It’s something the US wants to hit Serbs over the head at every possible opportunity. I don’t mind admitting to something I have done but I refuse to accept guilt for a non-existent crime on the scale claimed by the UE/US.

You concern yourself too much with “increasing respect in western capitals”. Who cares about respect in western capitals; the west is on the verge of becoming irrelevant. I suggest that you look towards the future and seek respect in Bejing or New Delhi. Notice how quiet the US has become since China started tightening the screws – it’s called the US coming to terms with the new masters.

Bganon, u are right in most of ur comment but honestly as a foreigner who has been travelling in the all region for a number of years now I feel that we have been "brain washed" by the politics and the media during the war, basically picturing the Serbs as some sort of monsters!
Nothing can excuse what happend but we are also seeking to uncover who were the forces behind that balkan tragedy!
The more one look into it the more leads bring to the same lies that have been covering other unecessary wars in the past and are still doing it!
At the end people were and are still suffering fm criminal acts of politicians fm inside as well as fm outside, Irak is such a clear example of that with 100 of thousands of people who died and are still dying thanks to a today proven illegal invasion !
I think, and am without any doubts not the only one, that Serbs have already come a long way in acknowledging the past and taking steps to comdemn the guilty one and it will be about time that the others surrounding will start doing the same, only that can bring some sort of peace!
However, reading the nationalist comments here gives me little hope that the people themselves would want to recongnize that their respective leaders were criminaly involved in this tragedy, nor would they want to have the truth uncovered! Really sad...

bgannon makes a nice balanced post and I agree with it for the most part.

However, if the resolution passes and genocide is mentioned, then there is a potential for an appeal or yet another law suit by Bosnia for war rapparations against Serbia, only this time Serbia would hand them the guilty verdict from the get go. While on the other hand Serbia would have nothing to counter attack with, as no other ethnicity in Ex-Yu has (or perhaps ever will) adopted such a resolution.

All sides committed crimes and all should pay for them in their due proportions. If the EU pushed for a common resultion for all Ex-Yu states (perhaps as a condition of EU membership), requiring them to all pay their dues than I would support this. But this is not in the interest of Brussels becuase they already have everyone except Serbs wrapped around their little finger.