Zoran my point is that the monopoly of Maxi, Tempo and formerly Pekabeta continues to dominate Belgrade and Serbia as a whole - to a much greater extent than Tesco does - notwithstanding Inverness.
I'm visiting my sister in Ipswich. In that bland town centre you describe you have a Somerfield, you have a sainsbury's, you have co-op, you have a Marks and Spencers and you have a Waitrose and you have a Mini Tesco and an Iceland. If you have a car, you have access to Asda, Lidl, Tesco, Safeway, Morrisons and a couple of other low cost out of town places. Oh and in the centre of Ipswich you also have the fruit and veg market.
Ipswich is a larger town but is typical of larger medium sized towns in the UK. Nearby Colchester has the same, as does Norwich. None of those towns has a population anything like Belgrade. You do blase pretty well, but can you remind me how many supermarkets we have in Belgrade in comparison to tiny Ippy!
I can imagine in the middle of a nuclear meltdown you would be persuading people that they have nothing to worry about because nuclear metldowns have happened in other countries, where the situation is just as bad!
You can btw be certain that Miskovic will never allow Marks and Sparks to sell food in Serbia, even if there was a market for it. There was also that French supermarket that bought land but was obstructed from setting up shop by behind the scenes manourverings by Miodrag. Am I right in thinking that even knowing the situation in Serbia, that you would support him in greasing the hands of the powers that be to prevent Tesco from coming to Serbia? Give me that, at least.
The quality of fruit and veg is better in Serbia, no question. The west prefers its fruit polished, perfectly formed and tasteless it would seem. In Serbia our concerns are the opposite and rightly so.
The average supermarket basket is not particular to one particular country. It includes items like bread, vegetables, washing up liquid, milk etc.
I didn't say there isn't a monopoly in Serbia and that prices are cheap, I said that it also exists in the UK. We at least have many local markets whereas most have died in the UK (although some are coming back now).
The UK has cloned high streets where every town has basically the same shops. Tesco has monopolies in certain areas. Here check
Even a book was written about it. Check http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/has+tesco+become+a+monopoly/407447
A simple Google search is all you need. Tesco dominates the Grocery business. As for Serbia, yes, we need more competition but I am happy with what is being offered. Maybe because I have a car? I don't know. I also don't know what's in the average Serbian grocery basket.
From what I have seen, it's not too different from the UK in term of choice. On another note, I also think the quality of food in Serbia (market quality) is far better than the UK. You'll have to shop at somewhere like Waitrose and pay a premium to get our quality.
I have always maintained and still is my position ( even stronger now)the destruction of Yugoslavia happened not for any Western altruistic reason towards the Albanians but solely for the spread of the western globilised mode of production and the incorporation of all the countries within EU.It is also my position Serbia's EU entry will not solve the country's problems.
(Leonidas, 24 January 2010 20:52)
I cannot believe I am going to defend Serbia and Yugoslavia here but you sir are being very disingenious claiming that the EU will spell doom for Serbia when your country, Greece, has lived off EU handouts for almost three decades and has seen its standard of living rise drastically during that period.
If it weren't for EU handouts the Greek economy would perhaps be on par with that of Bulgaria today while Yugoslavia's as a whole would be on par with that of Spain or Ireland if they had joined the EU when Greece did.
Yugoslavia would have been an economic powerhouse and managed to flourish even as as a centrally planned economy while Greece has only managed to grow kalamata olives and "whore" its islands and antique history to Euro tourists.
Yugoslavia was undone by a few madmen just like Germany was during WWII. If the EU is to bear any blame is for not intervening soon enough in Bosnia to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe there.
Zoran its interesting for you to be stating the government position on the supermarket sector. That is not a joke btw, it is entirely the government's position and that of that awful Milosavljevic to claim that there is no monopoly and that there is choice and alternatives.
By the sounds of it, you drive in Serbia so you probably have a distorted idea of the sector. Yes there are Vero's, about VUK and NBG (I can think 2 in Belgrade) - if you have a car or live nearby. Yes there is Tempo (if you have a car and by the way it is owned by Miskovic, so hardly non-monopolistic). Mercator if you live in NBG and IDEA if you live in NBG.
However, the majority of people living the old side of the river - all the way to Sremcia (again, perhaps that isn't what you see) are surounded by Maxi after Maxi. The vast majority of people living in built up areas of the city in the centre have to go to Miskovic. In London that is not the case, I can reel off any number of areas I know with more than one supermarket, or one of those mini supermarkets of the big four. Tesco is huge and is the market leader, but it is not a monopolist. You didn't those other low cost supermarkets like Aldi...
Zoran there are not alternatives to the high prices that ordinary people are paying in Serbia for their groceries. I am not talking about basic foodstuffs like onions or carrots which are cheaper in Serbia than the UK. I'm talking about the vast majority of goods found in the average basket of a supermarket customer. Tell me that it is cheaper in Serbia. I defy you and tell me that nothing is wrong.
Zoran, I’m afraid you’re quite wrong about UK supermarkets. There are the “big three”, of broadly similar size, who compete with each other to gain as big a share of the market as they can (Sainsburys, Tesco and Asda/Morrisons). There are a number of smaller chains too. Bganon is right – prices for most foods are cheaper here than in Serbia. In fact, as a proportion of income, food is cheaper now than it has been for decades. Monopolies only serve the interests of the big cat corporate owners.
I can’t vote in Serb elections (my partner is Serbian citizen) but I have been exposed to Yugo/Serb politics for years. Kostunica had his time and offered a promise of a bright future during and after the dark of Milosevic. The citizens gave him a chance and he didn’t follow through with his promises. What has changed that makes him more able to do so now?
I think as usual, Kostunica is correct in what he says but I suspect that even if the opposition came into power, some of his points will still remain.
Regarding the supermarket debate, I don't think there is a big difference between Serbia and the West in those regards. We have some competition (Super Vero (Greek), Mercator (Slovenian), Tempo (Serbian), Idea (Croatian). Tesco has become a kind of monopoly in the UK so Miskovic is no different.
What I like about Serbia and Belgrade is the abundance of local markets. They are everywhere and provide an alternative to supermarkets. However, I am surprised at the expense of many items in retail stores (car parts, clothes, toys, etc..) but then the Chinese market in New Belgrade offers very good prices.
I think there is a danger of ignoring reality when one becomes too bound up with political philosophy.
(bganon, 25 January 2010 02:06
Not only you are 100% right in your comments, but the reality is even bleaker when it comes to the treatment of farmers by "local" retail chains. The arrival of foreign retailers will certainly create more balanced prices for the farmers and ultimately for the end consumers and at the end the farmers will have decent payment terms!
The usual thing: Talk is cheap, as long as you are in the opposition, you can critizise everything and promise anything. Once you are in the government, the problems come. And yes, keep in mind that Kostunica has been in power before...
'What makes you think that western supermarkets will bring competition to Serbia?
If you visit twosupermarkets in Germany Aldi or Lidl,for instance,you'll discover that prices are almost identical in most of the products. '
Yes and those prices are much, much cheaper on average than supermarket prices in Serbia.
I am in the UK at the moment and I can confirm that prices of most goods in the supermarket are much cheaper in UK as well - with the exception of bread and some basic foodstuffs.
Foreign supermarkets in local areas to keep costs down market some of their produce locally. That is why you can find many Serbian agro companies dumped by Miskovic, at IDEA or Mercator, where some 40% of produce is locally sourced. What can they do, when Miskovic turns the screws on them, but go to foreign supermarkets to sell their goods?
I can see you have a theory which you want to fit the supermarket sector into but the fact is that those newly built western supermarkets don't exist.
I don't believe in capitalism but I do know that even in this sordid system that what you are proposing (what are you proposing, do nothing?) - keep Serb monopolists in charge of the sector will only mean high prices for Serbian citizens who can least afford it.
That is my concern, not about whether I oppose / support the EU, or whether 'they' are pro or anti Albanian.
I think there is a danger of ignoring reality when one becomes too bound up with political philosophy.
You can't dispute what he is saying about the current state of affairs in Serbia, but what I will dispute is his claim that he is the person to answer these problems. He is "a has been" politician and I doubt he will ever be in power again. All the opposition parties in the Balkans ( Serbia, Kosovo,Macedonia etc) call for "new" election once they loose power. Funny that they weren't doing that when they were in power. Wonder why :)
Leonidas what western run supermarkets? Serbian shoppers are being robbed blind by domestic monopolists such as Miskovic. The irony is that only western (or eastern, or any) competition will prevent Miskovic from this and drive prices down.
BTW that is what farmers will tell you also, not only that but Miskovic has purchased a lot of land, some of which is being used for farming. Existing farmers will be cut out of the deal, and they want western, Croatian, Slovenian competitors to move into their market or they will lose their livelihoods.
(bganon, 24 January 2010 19:18)
What makes you think that western supermarkets will bring competition to Serbia?
If you visit twosupermarkets in Germany Aldi or Lidl,for instance,you'll discover that prices are almost identical in most of the products.
The same think happens in UK.
Supermarket cahains such as Asda,Tesco or Sainsbury's have been accused many times in the past for price fixing and fined heavily.
Furthermore,foreign owned supermarkets will not support
Serbia's economy by sourcing locally but probably from other EU countries where produce is heavily subsidised(eastern Europe}or is of superior quality(France).
I have always maintained and still is my position ( even stronger now)the destruction of Yugoslavia happened not for any Western altruistic reason towards the Albanians but solely for the spread of the western globilised mode of production and the incorporation of all the countries within EU.It is also my position Serbia's EU entry will not solve the country's problems.
'By allowing the dumping of heavily subsidised EU agricultural products into Serbian markets, in the newly built Western-run supermarkets...'
Leonidas what western run supermarkets? Serbian shoppers are being robbed blind by domestic monopolists such as Miskovic. The irony is that only western (or eastern, or any) competition will prevent Miskovic from this and drive prices down.
BTW that is what farmers will tell you also, not only that but Miskovic has purchased a lot of land, some of which is being used for farming. Existing farmers will be cut out of the deal, and they want western, Croatian, Slovenian competitors to move into their market or they will lose their livelihoods.
As for Kostunica, he had his time in power. He is now just hoping that if he waits around long enough he will become popular again. He should have taken his own advice and retired.
Kostunica is a fringe politician and DSS get less than 10% of votes in Rep. of Serbia. "Need for new elections" has been Kostunica's standard line for more than a year. It's not news. So why is the English language section of B92 covering his speech in such detail?
Kostunica should just bow out of politics. The past eighteen months show just how little he did for Serbia. Really, from an outsider's perspective, even the Progressives would be better for the country.
Every Serbian citizen knows that the current government is responsible for the collapse of Serbia, for the decrease in production and increase in unemployment, the endless debt of the country and the fact that our producers, namely agricultural, are being destroyed by imports under the influence of import lobbyists and their powerful foreign partners,” he said
B92
One thing for certain is the current goverment has been doing its best to prepare the country for EU membership
according to the instructions
of the EU masters.
By allowing the dumping of heavily subsidised EU agricultural products into Serbian markets, in the newly built Western-run supermarkets, it has resulted into the erosion of farmers incomes in Serbia.
Since Serbia's economy still has a large agrarian base it will have devasting effects on farmers incomes and employment.
Tadic &co must realise the boom years within the EU are gone and he shouldn't get excited by the vague promise of a membership.The economic fault lines which have been developing within the EU and already started to surface will triger its eventual colapse.When that happens its better to be ouysite than inside.
Whether or not you like or dislike Kostunica, everything that he says here is true. He seems to be the only Serbian politician today who doesn't seem to have "blinders" on when it comes to Serbia's enemies. I am not saying that he's the complete answer to our problems, but the answer must come first come through acknowledgement of problems, and being able to see them clearly through all the smoke and mirrors that are constantly being put up by our enemies. And the Serbian people need to SEE who our enemies really are in order to defend ourselves.
What is this guy talking abt, his rating went fm 28% to a few %! Most of the privatizations were done under his govnt, the same privitizations that are failing today, what a short memory! Better for Serbian people that this guy stay out of politic!
Tadic and his team won the last election on the platform of getting Serbia joining EU.
But they did not tell the Nation that it will be payed by allowing Kosovo independence by letting Eulex moving in, allowing maybe even Vojvodina to go, pushing us slowly but surely toward Nato and all of that by using sly and disclosed of public step by step policies.
Did they have any success in their election promise?
Very much NOT. Few visa-free travels are not paying the bill. EU is far as ever and some of our Provinces as well.
Now that we now what they are planning maybe the Serbians would say no to their "hidden ways EU admission platform" so election time is the only option.
The man obviously loathes the idea of retiring and becoming a pensioner. He enjoys participating in elections.He criticizes the state of affairs in Serbia as though he had never been in power. Don't let us forget that he was the president of SRY(basically in Serbia) and prime minister in Serbia over four and a half years.All destructive privatizations occurred at that time.Ineffective laws were brought ,a rate of criminal acts increased at his time,ministers and high officials did not abide by the law, trains and railway engines were bought in the boutique,highway mafia was boosted fy some high officials.Vojo,stay home and stroke your cat!
The problem is that our government and the president, like the media covering their (in)actions are US/€USSR occupied territory. There are democratic minded people doing their best to change this stalemate and our most important job is to help them and our society from further deterioration into the €USSR abyss. Once in the €Uropean politburo, our politicians will go there lift their fat pay-checks and stay there at a safe convenient distance from the possibility of being held accountable for the terrible consequenses of lost independence to this monster known as €U.
But the current limbo also serves the €U bankers quite well, hence the every day slogan "soon member" or "instant millionairies any time soon" but the number of people actually beliving in that sorosian drug is getting smaller by the day. Throw out the puppets and stay free!
mr X prime minister Kostunica
are you promissing if you come to power you will VOID Vojvodinas status and you will take Kosovo back by force.What are your options before I cast my vote.
You can never turn back the time and find out what happened 'if', but I'm 99% sure that Serbia would be in a lot worse state than it is now in case Kostunica would have stayed president after the last elections. Serbia is in a transition phase now - extremely belated, should have been done 10-20 years ago, and Serbia (and other countries of former Yugoslavia, too) would be far ahead of Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, ...
The problem is that our government and the president, like the media covering their (in)actions are US/€USSR occupied territory. There are democratic minded people doing their best to change this stalemate and our most important job is to help them and our society from further deterioration into the €USSR abyss. Once in the €Uropean politburo, our politicians will go there lift their fat pay-checks and stay there at a safe convenient distance from the possibility of being held accountable for the terrible consequenses of lost independence to this monster known as €U.
But the current limbo also serves the €U bankers quite well, hence the every day slogan "soon member" or "instant millionairies any time soon" but the number of people actually beliving in that sorosian drug is getting smaller by the day. Throw out the puppets and stay free!
Tadic and his team won the last election on the platform of getting Serbia joining EU.
But they did not tell the Nation that it will be payed by allowing Kosovo independence by letting Eulex moving in, allowing maybe even Vojvodina to go, pushing us slowly but surely toward Nato and all of that by using sly and disclosed of public step by step policies.
Did they have any success in their election promise?
Very much NOT. Few visa-free travels are not paying the bill. EU is far as ever and some of our Provinces as well.
Now that we now what they are planning maybe the Serbians would say no to their "hidden ways EU admission platform" so election time is the only option.
Whether or not you like or dislike Kostunica, everything that he says here is true. He seems to be the only Serbian politician today who doesn't seem to have "blinders" on when it comes to Serbia's enemies. I am not saying that he's the complete answer to our problems, but the answer must come first come through acknowledgement of problems, and being able to see them clearly through all the smoke and mirrors that are constantly being put up by our enemies. And the Serbian people need to SEE who our enemies really are in order to defend ourselves.
The man obviously loathes the idea of retiring and becoming a pensioner. He enjoys participating in elections.He criticizes the state of affairs in Serbia as though he had never been in power. Don't let us forget that he was the president of SRY(basically in Serbia) and prime minister in Serbia over four and a half years.All destructive privatizations occurred at that time.Ineffective laws were brought ,a rate of criminal acts increased at his time,ministers and high officials did not abide by the law, trains and railway engines were bought in the boutique,highway mafia was boosted fy some high officials.Vojo,stay home and stroke your cat!
Every Serbian citizen knows that the current government is responsible for the collapse of Serbia, for the decrease in production and increase in unemployment, the endless debt of the country and the fact that our producers, namely agricultural, are being destroyed by imports under the influence of import lobbyists and their powerful foreign partners,” he said
B92
One thing for certain is the current goverment has been doing its best to prepare the country for EU membership
according to the instructions
of the EU masters.
By allowing the dumping of heavily subsidised EU agricultural products into Serbian markets, in the newly built Western-run supermarkets, it has resulted into the erosion of farmers incomes in Serbia.
Since Serbia's economy still has a large agrarian base it will have devasting effects on farmers incomes and employment.
Tadic &co must realise the boom years within the EU are gone and he shouldn't get excited by the vague promise of a membership.The economic fault lines which have been developing within the EU and already started to surface will triger its eventual colapse.When that happens its better to be ouysite than inside.
You can never turn back the time and find out what happened 'if', but I'm 99% sure that Serbia would be in a lot worse state than it is now in case Kostunica would have stayed president after the last elections. Serbia is in a transition phase now - extremely belated, should have been done 10-20 years ago, and Serbia (and other countries of former Yugoslavia, too) would be far ahead of Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, ...
mr X prime minister Kostunica
are you promissing if you come to power you will VOID Vojvodinas status and you will take Kosovo back by force.What are your options before I cast my vote.
'By allowing the dumping of heavily subsidised EU agricultural products into Serbian markets, in the newly built Western-run supermarkets...'
Leonidas what western run supermarkets? Serbian shoppers are being robbed blind by domestic monopolists such as Miskovic. The irony is that only western (or eastern, or any) competition will prevent Miskovic from this and drive prices down.
BTW that is what farmers will tell you also, not only that but Miskovic has purchased a lot of land, some of which is being used for farming. Existing farmers will be cut out of the deal, and they want western, Croatian, Slovenian competitors to move into their market or they will lose their livelihoods.
As for Kostunica, he had his time in power. He is now just hoping that if he waits around long enough he will become popular again. He should have taken his own advice and retired.
I have always maintained and still is my position ( even stronger now)the destruction of Yugoslavia happened not for any Western altruistic reason towards the Albanians but solely for the spread of the western globilised mode of production and the incorporation of all the countries within EU.It is also my position Serbia's EU entry will not solve the country's problems.
(Leonidas, 24 January 2010 20:52)
I cannot believe I am going to defend Serbia and Yugoslavia here but you sir are being very disingenious claiming that the EU will spell doom for Serbia when your country, Greece, has lived off EU handouts for almost three decades and has seen its standard of living rise drastically during that period.
If it weren't for EU handouts the Greek economy would perhaps be on par with that of Bulgaria today while Yugoslavia's as a whole would be on par with that of Spain or Ireland if they had joined the EU when Greece did.
Yugoslavia would have been an economic powerhouse and managed to flourish even as as a centrally planned economy while Greece has only managed to grow kalamata olives and "whore" its islands and antique history to Euro tourists.
Yugoslavia was undone by a few madmen just like Germany was during WWII. If the EU is to bear any blame is for not intervening soon enough in Bosnia to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe there.
Kostunica is a fringe politician and DSS get less than 10% of votes in Rep. of Serbia. "Need for new elections" has been Kostunica's standard line for more than a year. It's not news. So why is the English language section of B92 covering his speech in such detail?
What is this guy talking abt, his rating went fm 28% to a few %! Most of the privatizations were done under his govnt, the same privitizations that are failing today, what a short memory! Better for Serbian people that this guy stay out of politic!
Kostunica should just bow out of politics. The past eighteen months show just how little he did for Serbia. Really, from an outsider's perspective, even the Progressives would be better for the country.
Zoran, I’m afraid you’re quite wrong about UK supermarkets. There are the “big three”, of broadly similar size, who compete with each other to gain as big a share of the market as they can (Sainsburys, Tesco and Asda/Morrisons). There are a number of smaller chains too. Bganon is right – prices for most foods are cheaper here than in Serbia. In fact, as a proportion of income, food is cheaper now than it has been for decades. Monopolies only serve the interests of the big cat corporate owners.
I can’t vote in Serb elections (my partner is Serbian citizen) but I have been exposed to Yugo/Serb politics for years. Kostunica had his time and offered a promise of a bright future during and after the dark of Milosevic. The citizens gave him a chance and he didn’t follow through with his promises. What has changed that makes him more able to do so now?
Leonidas what western run supermarkets? Serbian shoppers are being robbed blind by domestic monopolists such as Miskovic. The irony is that only western (or eastern, or any) competition will prevent Miskovic from this and drive prices down.
BTW that is what farmers will tell you also, not only that but Miskovic has purchased a lot of land, some of which is being used for farming. Existing farmers will be cut out of the deal, and they want western, Croatian, Slovenian competitors to move into their market or they will lose their livelihoods.
(bganon, 24 January 2010 19:18)
What makes you think that western supermarkets will bring competition to Serbia?
If you visit twosupermarkets in Germany Aldi or Lidl,for instance,you'll discover that prices are almost identical in most of the products.
The same think happens in UK.
Supermarket cahains such as Asda,Tesco or Sainsbury's have been accused many times in the past for price fixing and fined heavily.
Furthermore,foreign owned supermarkets will not support
Serbia's economy by sourcing locally but probably from other EU countries where produce is heavily subsidised(eastern Europe}or is of superior quality(France).
I have always maintained and still is my position ( even stronger now)the destruction of Yugoslavia happened not for any Western altruistic reason towards the Albanians but solely for the spread of the western globilised mode of production and the incorporation of all the countries within EU.It is also my position Serbia's EU entry will not solve the country's problems.
You can't dispute what he is saying about the current state of affairs in Serbia, but what I will dispute is his claim that he is the person to answer these problems. He is "a has been" politician and I doubt he will ever be in power again. All the opposition parties in the Balkans ( Serbia, Kosovo,Macedonia etc) call for "new" election once they loose power. Funny that they weren't doing that when they were in power. Wonder why :)
'What makes you think that western supermarkets will bring competition to Serbia?
If you visit twosupermarkets in Germany Aldi or Lidl,for instance,you'll discover that prices are almost identical in most of the products. '
Yes and those prices are much, much cheaper on average than supermarket prices in Serbia.
I am in the UK at the moment and I can confirm that prices of most goods in the supermarket are much cheaper in UK as well - with the exception of bread and some basic foodstuffs.
Foreign supermarkets in local areas to keep costs down market some of their produce locally. That is why you can find many Serbian agro companies dumped by Miskovic, at IDEA or Mercator, where some 40% of produce is locally sourced. What can they do, when Miskovic turns the screws on them, but go to foreign supermarkets to sell their goods?
I can see you have a theory which you want to fit the supermarket sector into but the fact is that those newly built western supermarkets don't exist.
I don't believe in capitalism but I do know that even in this sordid system that what you are proposing (what are you proposing, do nothing?) - keep Serb monopolists in charge of the sector will only mean high prices for Serbian citizens who can least afford it.
That is my concern, not about whether I oppose / support the EU, or whether 'they' are pro or anti Albanian.
I think there is a danger of ignoring reality when one becomes too bound up with political philosophy.
Zoran its interesting for you to be stating the government position on the supermarket sector. That is not a joke btw, it is entirely the government's position and that of that awful Milosavljevic to claim that there is no monopoly and that there is choice and alternatives.
By the sounds of it, you drive in Serbia so you probably have a distorted idea of the sector. Yes there are Vero's, about VUK and NBG (I can think 2 in Belgrade) - if you have a car or live nearby. Yes there is Tempo (if you have a car and by the way it is owned by Miskovic, so hardly non-monopolistic). Mercator if you live in NBG and IDEA if you live in NBG.
However, the majority of people living the old side of the river - all the way to Sremcia (again, perhaps that isn't what you see) are surounded by Maxi after Maxi. The vast majority of people living in built up areas of the city in the centre have to go to Miskovic. In London that is not the case, I can reel off any number of areas I know with more than one supermarket, or one of those mini supermarkets of the big four. Tesco is huge and is the market leader, but it is not a monopolist. You didn't those other low cost supermarkets like Aldi...
Zoran there are not alternatives to the high prices that ordinary people are paying in Serbia for their groceries. I am not talking about basic foodstuffs like onions or carrots which are cheaper in Serbia than the UK. I'm talking about the vast majority of goods found in the average basket of a supermarket customer. Tell me that it is cheaper in Serbia. I defy you and tell me that nothing is wrong.
The usual thing: Talk is cheap, as long as you are in the opposition, you can critizise everything and promise anything. Once you are in the government, the problems come. And yes, keep in mind that Kostunica has been in power before...
I think there is a danger of ignoring reality when one becomes too bound up with political philosophy.
(bganon, 25 January 2010 02:06
Not only you are 100% right in your comments, but the reality is even bleaker when it comes to the treatment of farmers by "local" retail chains. The arrival of foreign retailers will certainly create more balanced prices for the farmers and ultimately for the end consumers and at the end the farmers will have decent payment terms!
Zoran my point is that the monopoly of Maxi, Tempo and formerly Pekabeta continues to dominate Belgrade and Serbia as a whole - to a much greater extent than Tesco does - notwithstanding Inverness.
I'm visiting my sister in Ipswich. In that bland town centre you describe you have a Somerfield, you have a sainsbury's, you have co-op, you have a Marks and Spencers and you have a Waitrose and you have a Mini Tesco and an Iceland. If you have a car, you have access to Asda, Lidl, Tesco, Safeway, Morrisons and a couple of other low cost out of town places. Oh and in the centre of Ipswich you also have the fruit and veg market.
Ipswich is a larger town but is typical of larger medium sized towns in the UK. Nearby Colchester has the same, as does Norwich. None of those towns has a population anything like Belgrade. You do blase pretty well, but can you remind me how many supermarkets we have in Belgrade in comparison to tiny Ippy!
I can imagine in the middle of a nuclear meltdown you would be persuading people that they have nothing to worry about because nuclear metldowns have happened in other countries, where the situation is just as bad!
You can btw be certain that Miskovic will never allow Marks and Sparks to sell food in Serbia, even if there was a market for it. There was also that French supermarket that bought land but was obstructed from setting up shop by behind the scenes manourverings by Miodrag. Am I right in thinking that even knowing the situation in Serbia, that you would support him in greasing the hands of the powers that be to prevent Tesco from coming to Serbia? Give me that, at least.
The quality of fruit and veg is better in Serbia, no question. The west prefers its fruit polished, perfectly formed and tasteless it would seem. In Serbia our concerns are the opposite and rightly so.
The average supermarket basket is not particular to one particular country. It includes items like bread, vegetables, washing up liquid, milk etc.
I think as usual, Kostunica is correct in what he says but I suspect that even if the opposition came into power, some of his points will still remain.
Regarding the supermarket debate, I don't think there is a big difference between Serbia and the West in those regards. We have some competition (Super Vero (Greek), Mercator (Slovenian), Tempo (Serbian), Idea (Croatian). Tesco has become a kind of monopoly in the UK so Miskovic is no different.
What I like about Serbia and Belgrade is the abundance of local markets. They are everywhere and provide an alternative to supermarkets. However, I am surprised at the expense of many items in retail stores (car parts, clothes, toys, etc..) but then the Chinese market in New Belgrade offers very good prices.
I didn't say there isn't a monopoly in Serbia and that prices are cheap, I said that it also exists in the UK. We at least have many local markets whereas most have died in the UK (although some are coming back now).
The UK has cloned high streets where every town has basically the same shops. Tesco has monopolies in certain areas. Here check
Even a book was written about it. Check http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/has+tesco+become+a+monopoly/407447
A simple Google search is all you need. Tesco dominates the Grocery business. As for Serbia, yes, we need more competition but I am happy with what is being offered. Maybe because I have a car? I don't know. I also don't know what's in the average Serbian grocery basket.
From what I have seen, it's not too different from the UK in term of choice. On another note, I also think the quality of food in Serbia (market quality) is far better than the UK. You'll have to shop at somewhere like Waitrose and pay a premium to get our quality.
Kostunica is a fringe politician and DSS get less than 10% of votes in Rep. of Serbia. "Need for new elections" has been Kostunica's standard line for more than a year. It's not news. So why is the English language section of B92 covering his speech in such detail?
The problem is that our government and the president, like the media covering their (in)actions are US/€USSR occupied territory. There are democratic minded people doing their best to change this stalemate and our most important job is to help them and our society from further deterioration into the €USSR abyss. Once in the €Uropean politburo, our politicians will go there lift their fat pay-checks and stay there at a safe convenient distance from the possibility of being held accountable for the terrible consequenses of lost independence to this monster known as €U.
But the current limbo also serves the €U bankers quite well, hence the every day slogan "soon member" or "instant millionairies any time soon" but the number of people actually beliving in that sorosian drug is getting smaller by the day. Throw out the puppets and stay free!
Kostunica should just bow out of politics. The past eighteen months show just how little he did for Serbia. Really, from an outsider's perspective, even the Progressives would be better for the country.
Whether or not you like or dislike Kostunica, everything that he says here is true. He seems to be the only Serbian politician today who doesn't seem to have "blinders" on when it comes to Serbia's enemies. I am not saying that he's the complete answer to our problems, but the answer must come first come through acknowledgement of problems, and being able to see them clearly through all the smoke and mirrors that are constantly being put up by our enemies. And the Serbian people need to SEE who our enemies really are in order to defend ourselves.
What is this guy talking abt, his rating went fm 28% to a few %! Most of the privatizations were done under his govnt, the same privitizations that are failing today, what a short memory! Better for Serbian people that this guy stay out of politic!
Tadic and his team won the last election on the platform of getting Serbia joining EU.
But they did not tell the Nation that it will be payed by allowing Kosovo independence by letting Eulex moving in, allowing maybe even Vojvodina to go, pushing us slowly but surely toward Nato and all of that by using sly and disclosed of public step by step policies.
Did they have any success in their election promise?
Very much NOT. Few visa-free travels are not paying the bill. EU is far as ever and some of our Provinces as well.
Now that we now what they are planning maybe the Serbians would say no to their "hidden ways EU admission platform" so election time is the only option.
The man obviously loathes the idea of retiring and becoming a pensioner. He enjoys participating in elections.He criticizes the state of affairs in Serbia as though he had never been in power. Don't let us forget that he was the president of SRY(basically in Serbia) and prime minister in Serbia over four and a half years.All destructive privatizations occurred at that time.Ineffective laws were brought ,a rate of criminal acts increased at his time,ministers and high officials did not abide by the law, trains and railway engines were bought in the boutique,highway mafia was boosted fy some high officials.Vojo,stay home and stroke your cat!
You can never turn back the time and find out what happened 'if', but I'm 99% sure that Serbia would be in a lot worse state than it is now in case Kostunica would have stayed president after the last elections. Serbia is in a transition phase now - extremely belated, should have been done 10-20 years ago, and Serbia (and other countries of former Yugoslavia, too) would be far ahead of Hungary, Poland, Czech Republic, ...
'By allowing the dumping of heavily subsidised EU agricultural products into Serbian markets, in the newly built Western-run supermarkets...'
Leonidas what western run supermarkets? Serbian shoppers are being robbed blind by domestic monopolists such as Miskovic. The irony is that only western (or eastern, or any) competition will prevent Miskovic from this and drive prices down.
BTW that is what farmers will tell you also, not only that but Miskovic has purchased a lot of land, some of which is being used for farming. Existing farmers will be cut out of the deal, and they want western, Croatian, Slovenian competitors to move into their market or they will lose their livelihoods.
As for Kostunica, he had his time in power. He is now just hoping that if he waits around long enough he will become popular again. He should have taken his own advice and retired.
mr X prime minister Kostunica
are you promissing if you come to power you will VOID Vojvodinas status and you will take Kosovo back by force.What are your options before I cast my vote.
Leonidas what western run supermarkets? Serbian shoppers are being robbed blind by domestic monopolists such as Miskovic. The irony is that only western (or eastern, or any) competition will prevent Miskovic from this and drive prices down.
BTW that is what farmers will tell you also, not only that but Miskovic has purchased a lot of land, some of which is being used for farming. Existing farmers will be cut out of the deal, and they want western, Croatian, Slovenian competitors to move into their market or they will lose their livelihoods.
(bganon, 24 January 2010 19:18)
What makes you think that western supermarkets will bring competition to Serbia?
If you visit twosupermarkets in Germany Aldi or Lidl,for instance,you'll discover that prices are almost identical in most of the products.
The same think happens in UK.
Supermarket cahains such as Asda,Tesco or Sainsbury's have been accused many times in the past for price fixing and fined heavily.
Furthermore,foreign owned supermarkets will not support
Serbia's economy by sourcing locally but probably from other EU countries where produce is heavily subsidised(eastern Europe}or is of superior quality(France).
I have always maintained and still is my position ( even stronger now)the destruction of Yugoslavia happened not for any Western altruistic reason towards the Albanians but solely for the spread of the western globilised mode of production and the incorporation of all the countries within EU.It is also my position Serbia's EU entry will not solve the country's problems.
I think as usual, Kostunica is correct in what he says but I suspect that even if the opposition came into power, some of his points will still remain.
Regarding the supermarket debate, I don't think there is a big difference between Serbia and the West in those regards. We have some competition (Super Vero (Greek), Mercator (Slovenian), Tempo (Serbian), Idea (Croatian). Tesco has become a kind of monopoly in the UK so Miskovic is no different.
What I like about Serbia and Belgrade is the abundance of local markets. They are everywhere and provide an alternative to supermarkets. However, I am surprised at the expense of many items in retail stores (car parts, clothes, toys, etc..) but then the Chinese market in New Belgrade offers very good prices.
Every Serbian citizen knows that the current government is responsible for the collapse of Serbia, for the decrease in production and increase in unemployment, the endless debt of the country and the fact that our producers, namely agricultural, are being destroyed by imports under the influence of import lobbyists and their powerful foreign partners,” he said
B92
One thing for certain is the current goverment has been doing its best to prepare the country for EU membership
according to the instructions
of the EU masters.
By allowing the dumping of heavily subsidised EU agricultural products into Serbian markets, in the newly built Western-run supermarkets, it has resulted into the erosion of farmers incomes in Serbia.
Since Serbia's economy still has a large agrarian base it will have devasting effects on farmers incomes and employment.
Tadic &co must realise the boom years within the EU are gone and he shouldn't get excited by the vague promise of a membership.The economic fault lines which have been developing within the EU and already started to surface will triger its eventual colapse.When that happens its better to be ouysite than inside.
I didn't say there isn't a monopoly in Serbia and that prices are cheap, I said that it also exists in the UK. We at least have many local markets whereas most have died in the UK (although some are coming back now).
The UK has cloned high streets where every town has basically the same shops. Tesco has monopolies in certain areas. Here check
Even a book was written about it. Check http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/business_money/has+tesco+become+a+monopoly/407447
A simple Google search is all you need. Tesco dominates the Grocery business. As for Serbia, yes, we need more competition but I am happy with what is being offered. Maybe because I have a car? I don't know. I also don't know what's in the average Serbian grocery basket.
From what I have seen, it's not too different from the UK in term of choice. On another note, I also think the quality of food in Serbia (market quality) is far better than the UK. You'll have to shop at somewhere like Waitrose and pay a premium to get our quality.
Zoran, I’m afraid you’re quite wrong about UK supermarkets. There are the “big three”, of broadly similar size, who compete with each other to gain as big a share of the market as they can (Sainsburys, Tesco and Asda/Morrisons). There are a number of smaller chains too. Bganon is right – prices for most foods are cheaper here than in Serbia. In fact, as a proportion of income, food is cheaper now than it has been for decades. Monopolies only serve the interests of the big cat corporate owners.
I can’t vote in Serb elections (my partner is Serbian citizen) but I have been exposed to Yugo/Serb politics for years. Kostunica had his time and offered a promise of a bright future during and after the dark of Milosevic. The citizens gave him a chance and he didn’t follow through with his promises. What has changed that makes him more able to do so now?
Zoran its interesting for you to be stating the government position on the supermarket sector. That is not a joke btw, it is entirely the government's position and that of that awful Milosavljevic to claim that there is no monopoly and that there is choice and alternatives.
By the sounds of it, you drive in Serbia so you probably have a distorted idea of the sector. Yes there are Vero's, about VUK and NBG (I can think 2 in Belgrade) - if you have a car or live nearby. Yes there is Tempo (if you have a car and by the way it is owned by Miskovic, so hardly non-monopolistic). Mercator if you live in NBG and IDEA if you live in NBG.
However, the majority of people living the old side of the river - all the way to Sremcia (again, perhaps that isn't what you see) are surounded by Maxi after Maxi. The vast majority of people living in built up areas of the city in the centre have to go to Miskovic. In London that is not the case, I can reel off any number of areas I know with more than one supermarket, or one of those mini supermarkets of the big four. Tesco is huge and is the market leader, but it is not a monopolist. You didn't those other low cost supermarkets like Aldi...
Zoran there are not alternatives to the high prices that ordinary people are paying in Serbia for their groceries. I am not talking about basic foodstuffs like onions or carrots which are cheaper in Serbia than the UK. I'm talking about the vast majority of goods found in the average basket of a supermarket customer. Tell me that it is cheaper in Serbia. I defy you and tell me that nothing is wrong.
Zoran my point is that the monopoly of Maxi, Tempo and formerly Pekabeta continues to dominate Belgrade and Serbia as a whole - to a much greater extent than Tesco does - notwithstanding Inverness.
I'm visiting my sister in Ipswich. In that bland town centre you describe you have a Somerfield, you have a sainsbury's, you have co-op, you have a Marks and Spencers and you have a Waitrose and you have a Mini Tesco and an Iceland. If you have a car, you have access to Asda, Lidl, Tesco, Safeway, Morrisons and a couple of other low cost out of town places. Oh and in the centre of Ipswich you also have the fruit and veg market.
Ipswich is a larger town but is typical of larger medium sized towns in the UK. Nearby Colchester has the same, as does Norwich. None of those towns has a population anything like Belgrade. You do blase pretty well, but can you remind me how many supermarkets we have in Belgrade in comparison to tiny Ippy!
I can imagine in the middle of a nuclear meltdown you would be persuading people that they have nothing to worry about because nuclear metldowns have happened in other countries, where the situation is just as bad!
You can btw be certain that Miskovic will never allow Marks and Sparks to sell food in Serbia, even if there was a market for it. There was also that French supermarket that bought land but was obstructed from setting up shop by behind the scenes manourverings by Miodrag. Am I right in thinking that even knowing the situation in Serbia, that you would support him in greasing the hands of the powers that be to prevent Tesco from coming to Serbia? Give me that, at least.
The quality of fruit and veg is better in Serbia, no question. The west prefers its fruit polished, perfectly formed and tasteless it would seem. In Serbia our concerns are the opposite and rightly so.
The average supermarket basket is not particular to one particular country. It includes items like bread, vegetables, washing up liquid, milk etc.
You can't dispute what he is saying about the current state of affairs in Serbia, but what I will dispute is his claim that he is the person to answer these problems. He is "a has been" politician and I doubt he will ever be in power again. All the opposition parties in the Balkans ( Serbia, Kosovo,Macedonia etc) call for "new" election once they loose power. Funny that they weren't doing that when they were in power. Wonder why :)
I have always maintained and still is my position ( even stronger now)the destruction of Yugoslavia happened not for any Western altruistic reason towards the Albanians but solely for the spread of the western globilised mode of production and the incorporation of all the countries within EU.It is also my position Serbia's EU entry will not solve the country's problems.
(Leonidas, 24 January 2010 20:52)
I cannot believe I am going to defend Serbia and Yugoslavia here but you sir are being very disingenious claiming that the EU will spell doom for Serbia when your country, Greece, has lived off EU handouts for almost three decades and has seen its standard of living rise drastically during that period.
If it weren't for EU handouts the Greek economy would perhaps be on par with that of Bulgaria today while Yugoslavia's as a whole would be on par with that of Spain or Ireland if they had joined the EU when Greece did.
Yugoslavia would have been an economic powerhouse and managed to flourish even as as a centrally planned economy while Greece has only managed to grow kalamata olives and "whore" its islands and antique history to Euro tourists.
Yugoslavia was undone by a few madmen just like Germany was during WWII. If the EU is to bear any blame is for not intervening soon enough in Bosnia to prevent the humanitarian catastrophe there.
'What makes you think that western supermarkets will bring competition to Serbia?
If you visit twosupermarkets in Germany Aldi or Lidl,for instance,you'll discover that prices are almost identical in most of the products. '
Yes and those prices are much, much cheaper on average than supermarket prices in Serbia.
I am in the UK at the moment and I can confirm that prices of most goods in the supermarket are much cheaper in UK as well - with the exception of bread and some basic foodstuffs.
Foreign supermarkets in local areas to keep costs down market some of their produce locally. That is why you can find many Serbian agro companies dumped by Miskovic, at IDEA or Mercator, where some 40% of produce is locally sourced. What can they do, when Miskovic turns the screws on them, but go to foreign supermarkets to sell their goods?
I can see you have a theory which you want to fit the supermarket sector into but the fact is that those newly built western supermarkets don't exist.
I don't believe in capitalism but I do know that even in this sordid system that what you are proposing (what are you proposing, do nothing?) - keep Serb monopolists in charge of the sector will only mean high prices for Serbian citizens who can least afford it.
That is my concern, not about whether I oppose / support the EU, or whether 'they' are pro or anti Albanian.
I think there is a danger of ignoring reality when one becomes too bound up with political philosophy.
The usual thing: Talk is cheap, as long as you are in the opposition, you can critizise everything and promise anything. Once you are in the government, the problems come. And yes, keep in mind that Kostunica has been in power before...
I think there is a danger of ignoring reality when one becomes too bound up with political philosophy.
(bganon, 25 January 2010 02:06
Not only you are 100% right in your comments, but the reality is even bleaker when it comes to the treatment of farmers by "local" retail chains. The arrival of foreign retailers will certainly create more balanced prices for the farmers and ultimately for the end consumers and at the end the farmers will have decent payment terms!
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