Jeremić: Kosovo is Serbia’s Jerusalem

“They’re curious. They want to hear what you have to say to them because you’re different,” he(VUK) said.

Hehe, Different like Tadic's conditions for Croatian presidental innaguration.

And as for "Jerusalem", isnt it fun that its is sorounded by 280 million Arabs, and Kosovo by 250 million Slavs.

It is Jerusalem, and you are on the wrong side of the gate, so stop asking people to help your occupation :)
Keep flying superman

So many countries and so many flight hours, and yet still did not manage to prevant recognitions only to slow it down. Big suprise after ICJ opinion is rendered. Vuk will most likely be sacked after that, for wasting tax payers money.

Having spent time in both Kosovo and Jerusalem, I am sorry that one cannot equate the former with the latter. It is inaccurate to compare an entire province with a single city. Serbs do not pray in the direction of Kosovo. Most have never been there, and have no intention of going. There is no discussion of making Kosovo the future capital of the Serbian state. Jerusalem is unique, occupying rare and special place for Judaism, Islam, and Christianity alike. If Serbs are Christian, Jerusalem is their Jerusalem.

“Personally, I don’t think I’m a nationalist,” he said. “I’m half Bosnian and half Serb.”

Is he serious? That makes you not a nationalist, in the same vain as, say, Mladic, Karadzic? Funny man this Jeremic.

Now that Jeremic says Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem, I expect him to tell this to all 40 of the Islamic Countries who have not recognized Kosovo. Will he be man enough to do it? I doubt it, but no worries because Kosovo FM Hiseni happen to be in Cairo and I am sure he will use this gem from Jeremic. Thanks Vuk!

Serbia should be proud to have a foreign minister like that! Bravo!

...and Sharr Mountain is Mount Everest.

If Jeremic really believes that Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem, then probably he should consider that Serbia should start acting like Israel. Meaning that he should claim what is Serbia's right more drastically and in a way like Israel does. Stop "swallowing" whatever US serves you. And stop accepting the blind nationalism of the (totally powerless and politically unimportant) Albanians. Nobody can help you out, if you don't want to help yourselves fisrt. We all know that Kosovo is "theoretically" Serbia but we trully are not sure if you can keep it in practise, or if you really want to keep it actually...

"Well, Jero then you have lost Jerusalem. Thank the Serbian leadership for that"
Plain truth

Someone can kidnap your child but the child will still always be yours. That's why Serbia and Kosovo are one forever, one way or the other.

Interesting words. Jerusalem is a city which is important for Jews, Christians and Muslims so why should Israel have it? The UN doesn't nor do most countries recognise Jerusalem being apart of Israel. Kosovo is important to Serbs, Albanians, Montenegrins etc therefore why should either Serbia or Albania have it. It should be independent and multi ethnic like Kosovo.

Jeremic is dreaming!!

So many countries and so many flight hours, and yet still did not manage to prevant recognitions only to slow it down. Big suprise after ICJ opinion is rendered. Vuk will most likely be sacked after that, for wasting tax payers money.
(Kosova-USA, 17 January 2010 11:20)
The Islamic Republic of Mauritania just recognized Kosovo,if you could point out this powerhouse on a map I would appreciate it.God bless Kosmet.

Well, Jero then you have lost Jerusalem. Thank the Serbian leadership for that

Keep up the good work WOlf.

Jeremić: Kosovo is Serbia’s Jerusalem ?
--
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
You may have trouble understanding,
WHY.

"If Jeremic really believes that Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem, then probably he should consider that Serbia should start acting like Israel"

Indeed, get a lot of money and create an AIPAC of Serbs in the US, move the focus from the middle east to the balkans. Get the western powers to bomb k-albs with white phosporous and other crimes agains humanity and occupie Croatia and Hungary, instead of Afghanistan and Iraq. Expand into every nearby country even Albania proper and abolish the constitution and the definition of borders until you get a desired result, eventually...

Here is the link to the full article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/world/europe/16jeremic.html

Not a surprise the Albanians here bristle at anything focusing on Jeremic. He's long been the ire of their plans of expansion and the single most visible representation of the refusal of Serbia to simply bend over and take it what they get up the - um - hind quarters. Still, it's a great article in that it portrays this charismatic 34 year old as the new face of Serbia: Western leaning, Western educated, and able to not only treat with the Big Powers, but facilitate conditions in which the Great Powers must treat with Belgrade. I see a bright future for Jeremic in the years ahead. Who could have imagined that someone as young as he could basically stem the tide of American encroachment in SE Europe and turn Serbia from the "pariah" into the most strategic partner for peace and stability in the region? He certainly hasn't won every battle, but he's held his own far more than many would have given him credit for.

As for the apparent misunderstanding here about the Jerusalem metaphor, Kosov for Serbs is something they can never forget. Like the Jews, Jerusalem had been taken from them repeatedly over the centuries, yet the Jews never ceased to sing for it. The metaphor is certainly a product of 19th century Romantic Nationalism, but it's an appropriate one I might add.

So many countries and so many flight hours, and yet still did not manage to prevant recognitions only to slow it down. Big suprise after ICJ opinion is rendered. Vuk will most likely be sacked after that, for wasting tax payers money.
(Kosova-USA, 17 January 2010 11:20)

There are very good results - Kosovo have any chance to join UN and EU - and will be pseudoindependent "black hole" ;)

Do You remember Mr Thaci from February 2008??:
"We have confirmation by around 100 countries that they are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence immediately after we declare it. We will have a powerful and massive recognition,"

bwaaahaaaahaaaa

And who is better politicians?? Jeremić or dreaming-man Thaci?? "powerful and massive recognition" :D

Good article. American public has zero knowledge about most of Europe and in particular Kosovo.

They have no knowledge about what it is now, what it used to be 400 or 600 years ago. Comparing it to Jerusalem is as close as they can understand.

Serbia's current government is the "most western oriented" it has ever had. But it keeps recalling its ambassadors from the West. That says a lot.

Not a surprise the Albanians here bristle at anything focusing on Jeremic. He's long been the ire of their plans of expansion and the single most visible representation of the refusal of Serbia to simply bend over and take it what they get up the - um - hind quarters. Still, it's a great article in that it portrays this charismatic 34 year old as the new face of Serbia: Western leaning, Western educated, and able to not only treat with the Big Powers, but facilitate conditions in which the Great Powers must treat with Belgrade. I see a bright future for Jeremic in the years ahead. Who could have imagined that someone as young as he could basically stem the tide of American encroachment in SE Europe and turn Serbia from the "pariah" into the most strategic partner for peace and stability in the region? He certainly hasn't won every battle, but he's held his own far more than many would have given him credit for.

As for the apparent misunderstanding here about the Jerusalem metaphor, Kosov for Serbs is something they can never forget. Like the Jews, Jerusalem had been taken from them repeatedly over the centuries, yet the Jews never ceased to sing for it. The metaphor is certainly a product of 19th century Romantic Nationalism, but it's an appropriate one I might add.
(Mike, 17 January 2010 17:55)


Oh, boy. Where do I start Mike. Let me start from the end. First let me make it clear once and for all for the Serb camp here. Kosova is something that not only we Albanians can never forget but something over which we have spilled blood over centuries and given our lives. Our children have payed with their lives. While for you its all about metaphors, hyperbolas, symbols, oxymorons, and romantic nationalism, for us its as real as it gets, its about survival, its about abolishing and breaking the chains of slavery, its about freedom. Fake metaphors such as the ones your minister makes are too distant to describe our attachment with Kosova. Having said that I am also encouraged by this complete lack of information and complete negligence the Serb camp has over what Kosova means for Albanians and our resolve. It is an advantage for us.

Mike If I was a Serb I wouldn't dare accuse others of expansionism. For the last 2 centuries starting with Nacertanije (1844) Serbia's core foreign policy has been one of expansionism and creation of Greater Serbia. Do I need to remind you again that in the 1990's the Balkans were in a war exactly because of that? Do I need to post here again, as I've done in the past, Serbian Government publications over how this was to be achieved. Last one was even published in Serbian papers authored by someone named Sesejl in the late 90's.

Now lets talk about Jeremic. Can you name me one issue when it comes to Kosova that he has actually won? I am having a hard time figuring that out. Not talking about many virtual victories he has claimed. Name one specific issue that Serbia has actually won over Kosova and that Jeremic is to be credited for. Can you please leave this inflammatory language aside. There have been no battles and wars since 1999. Virtual battles and virtual wars are real only in the minds of the myth-makers and the brainwashed. Also do not be so sure about what you call strategic partner. It is obvious that there is a total lack of respect for Serbia within the region let alone from the West. Serbia keeps pulling out ambassadors,keeps writing demarches, keeps leaving forums and regional meeting, keeps being ignored by the West and EULEX and occasionally burns a western embassy or two. This is certainly not how strategic partners are treated. Let's see if anyone cares if the president of such a strategic country does not go to Croatia as a sign of protest.

As for what you wrote in the beginning it is complete non-sense. I am not trying to offend you in any way by the way. Let me explain. Let me tell you that no Albanian ever expected or expects Serbia to agree over Kosova. We take that as a given and we move on from there; thus as such nobody from our side is surprised in any way. What I can also tell you though at least from what I read here is that it seems that Serbs themselves and those in the Serb camp are surprised that Serbia has not agreed with the West over Kosova yet; at least vocally. Tacitly we do not know what goes behind closed doors, we can always speculate.

Also do not be under any illusion that any of the Balkan states has actually any power to tell the EU or the US how they should treat them. Don't believe me? Just go back to the 90's and figure out how Serbia's arrogance and those internationally televised threats directed to the West and the US teaching them how they should treat Serbia paid off. Want more proof? Figure out how Cyprus ended up being the way it is and how a certain Kissinger responded to Greek threats about how the US should treat Greece. In the end the Balkans has always been the arena of politics, policies, games, and wars which have always been proxy politics, policies, games, and wars. Serbia will take some time to get used to the fact that the Albanian factor in the Balkans is no longer isolated and that just like Serbia they can too form allies so those proxy policies, politics, wars etc are no longer so obviously one sided, where the Serbs have all the support and we have none. Things have changed and with time Serbia will figure out that its position has changed, that it no longer can be Russia's darling and the West darling at the same time. Just like us Albanians figured out that it was not the World's fault that we had no support but it was our self-isolation and anger towards the West that lead us to a situation in which we no longer could count on anyone's support; Serbia too in the near future will figure out that Albanians are no longer unsupported anymore and that its policies need to change accordingly; those 100 years old policies towards Albanians and/or Kosova are no longer valid and certainly not working no matter how many virtual diplomatic victories Jeremic claims. Times have changed, Albanians have support. Serbia hasn't figured this out yet; but it will eventually. It will figure out that it can no longer expect the same results as it had in the last century when Albanians were totally isolated and had no strong international support whatsoever.

Religious Fundamentalism, that is how we describe that in our society, Mr. Jeremic. You only prove today that your will is not based on sense or even International Law.

# Religious Fundamentalism, that is how we describe that in our society, Mr. Jeremic. You only prove today that your will is not based on sense or even International Law.
(Derek, 17 January 2010 16:07)

thank you. sonia biserko calls it Serbian Fundamentalism. once i heard that term it really helped open my eyes to what we have had to deal with in the balkans, at least for the last 25 years. and it ain't pretty.

naturally, as a jew, i resent this obvious attempt by the belgrade regime to line itself up with Israel and the Jews. in fact, as has been pointed out, jerusalem is considered holy by many people, in facts billions in this world. how much blood has been spilt over "Holy Jerusalem" throughout history -- how much more will be? when jerusalem was occupied by the other side, it was hardly neutral or free. compromises need to be found in the middle east. judging by the current leadership there, and specifically the belligerent right-wing israeli political elite, we have a very long ways to go.

mush of this talk about "holy Kosovo" is simply disingenuous. If it were so holy to you, maybe you shouldn't have discriminated against and mass murdered so many of kosovo's citizens. maybe you shouldn't have tried to expel nearly a million of them. that doesn't sound so very holy to me. it sounds more like the most vulgar manifestations of ultra-nationalism, which you clearly continue to represent, whatever your age (who cares?).

then comes the other point -- that this regime continues to destabilize its other neighbors, most specifically Bosnia. is their "RS" also holy? me thinks this is just another phony ploy.

kosovo/a needs to and is gradually embracing multi-ethnic pluralism, with full rights and free access for all. serbia needs to as well. serbia needs to deal with its very dirty past. with politicos like jeremic and co., we continue to move in the wrong direction.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Jeremić: Kosovo is Serbia’s Jerusalem


You've made me laugh too loud. He's sort of young politician and of course he'll be making mistakes.
Jeremic could have had better career if he had his own late night show, he's got that sense of humor.

By saying that Kosova is Serbia's Jerusalem you should order your army to try and reoccupy Kosova, too bad that's not going to happen ever again.

Johny,

I congratulate you for your excellent posting. I truly enjoyed it!!

Obviously intended for zionist consumption, this guy is cleaver but this one wont fly.

AIPAC, "the New york money men" & Co was FOR bombing Serbia and ripping off parts of her, Clinton where their man. They wont tolerate competition in one of their most sacred trade marks ("next year in Jerusalem"), no more than they tolerate any other "Holocaust" than the "Shoa". Serbs are not part of their tribe so im afraid this "Jerusalem" thing will have the opposite effect.

And just for the record, Serbs are not jews. Serbs have always been in Kosovo. Sometimes in majority somethimes not.

Well since Mr Jeremic opened the season for wishfull thinking then also Serbia (well while I am at it actually the entire region of former Yugoslavia) is Jerusalem of Illyrians (predecessors of Albanians) and thus it is the Jerusalem of Albanians!

What a joke. And to think that this chap is a FM!

Mr FM,

If it is why you never come for a visit, i can tell you a nice hotel where you can stay and sites to visit!!

and about kosovo/a -- any regrets? the mass murders, the systematic rapes, the GENOCIDE. the attempt to expel nearly 1 million albanians from their land... the mass graves of albanians, throoughout serbia proper! just that kosovo/a is "holy" to serbs, and we'll do whatever it takes! (no war or more paramilitaries, at least not for the moment.)



roberto
frisco
(roberto, 17 January 2010 23:59)

Do you have any proof whatsoever to come up with that twaddle? There was no state sponsored genocide or ethnic cleansing in Kosmet by the Yugoslav authorities.

The only ethnic cleansing that happened in Kosmet was to Serbs, Roma, Jews, Gorani and other loyal Yugoslav citizens carried out by the KLA under the noses of NATO. Have you ever condemned that? No you haven't.

You are nothing but a faceless hypocrite. Now go away and spin your lies somewhere else.

It is wrong to claim that Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem. Albanians are actually the Jews of Europe. They were almost exterminated from their lands but because they never gave up they managed to keep their lands.

@ Roberto
Frisco

I really enjoy your comments and I'm happy someone outsite Balkan is so informed and your comments are always very well writen. All the best Roberto and keep writing. Thanx

Jeremic must have had a very bad sleep the night before this interview I can't belive it now they try this way to get Kosovo back but this would never ever happend.

well this FM it is really wrong he really anytime when he speak he speaks on kosovo favor let me tell you the world all world is tired with jerusalem they can not finde a solution there do you think Europa and USA will allow one more jerusalem in the middle of europa apsolutly not, they will stick with Ahtisari plan Kosovo-case is done they close this and throu the key away, yerusalem definitly europa no want one more jerusalem here in the middle of europa very wrong nister vuk-jeremic

"Great! You have your collective memory for Kosovo. Serbs have theirs. Neither is more valid than the other. It’s just something both sides need to deal with and accept."

--I agree with that statement. However fabricated statements such as Serbia's Jerusalem are not statements someone preaching peace should throw around. They become even more invalid considering that Belgrade's historical events.

"How is this different from numerous sources pointing to a Greater Albania which encompasses large parts of Serbia, Macedonia, Greece, and Montenegro? “Expansionism” continues even today with benign threats to extend control over Serbian enclaves that have clearly voiced their dissatisfaction with living under your rule. Great Serbia, Greater Albania, Greater Bulgaria, Greater Croatia – all have been part of the national policies of their respective states since the 19th century. Please don’t presume the Nacertanije is a unique characteristic of political culture in Southeast Europe."

--Huge, huge difference. You know it but you like not to acknowledge it. There has never been an Albanian boot in Serbia in Belgrade. There have continually been Serbian boots in Albania proper all the way down to Durres. Yes they even claimed Albania was Serbia's heart. If you want to know the names of those politicians at that time I will post them here. I've posted them in the past. The Albanian state has never had any plan such as the Naceranije the Serb state had let alone send the army to implement it. Let me know if you are willing to spend some time on vacation on our Riviera. You'll have the chance to see what a figment of imagination Great Albania is, and how much of a good tool that fairy tale is in the hands of the Serbian government. I am willing to find you accommodation.Also next time try not to equate us with any of those other states. Again the Albanian state has never sent its army inside the neighboring countries. While most of those countries you mention including Serbia have. That difference is Huge.

"I can name lots, though I’m sure you wouldn’t classify them as “victories”. Perhaps the greatest “victory” is keeping Kosovo’s status up in the air. With the might of some of the strongest democracies in the world theoretically behind you, Kosovo is in no better shape than it was in February 2008. Its status is being debated at the ICJ. It’s future for EU ascension is hopelessly blocked. The most powerful states in the world are neither forcing Serbia to acquiesce over Kosovo, nor are they making EU ascension conditional on recognition. EULEX openly cooperates with Belgrade while circumventing Pristina. Northern Kosovo remains all but a formal part of Serbia. Pristina occasionally gets the useless recognition to bolster its side, but you’re missing 7 key recognitions: Spain, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Cyprus, Russia and China. You need the first 5 to get into the EU and the last 2 to get into the UN. This was supposed to be an open and shut case, and it obviously wasn’t."

-- You rightly said so. How are those victories? I'll explain.
1. Russia and China are automatically in Serbia's pocket. This is their foreign policy by proxy I was talking about in my earlier post. Back Serbia to counter US and EU influence.
2. Kosova's status depends on your viewpoint. When US and vast majority of EU members countries are to be considered Kosova is no different than say Macedonia or even Serbia. They consider it independent. The very fact that Albanians have garnered such a backing from such strong countries should be troubling to anyone in the Serbian government but as usual the spin doctors in Belgrade are able to call anything a victory.
3. EU accession, UN or NATO are very very long term. No Albanian is under any illusion that it would be otherwise. Again you're claiming as victory something which really is or was never up to Serbia.
4. We never were under any illusion that Serbia would totally isolated from those that back us. That would be an unrealistic foreign policy and we are aware of that. Such zero sum policy would be damaging to anyone one in the region as it would result in a Serbia festering of hate and extremism. I am not so sure about the EU accession not being related to Kosova. However realistically speaking and looking at it historically also, after independence movements usually countries are not forced or acquiesced to recognize the country that sprung out from them. It is rather left to them to decide through time to recognize or not. Again we are not under any illusion that say the US or the EU would force Serbia to recognize us. Things simply don't work that way.
5.Spain, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Cyprus. All I have to say about these countries is that they have behaved the same way as Serbia has in the past and/or have sizeable compact minorities, and/or have been traditional allies of Serbia. Hence they are either afraid or traditionally loyal.
6. It was never an open and shut case. Where have you been from 1999 to 2008. An open and shut case is not allowed to last 9 years.
7. Finally the more I read your post the more I realize that you Serbs are surprised. Maybe you are taking a page from our very own book. That is that even if the biggest powers tell you that Kosova and you are under Serbia (well in your case under Albanians) that doesn't mean its always going to be like that. You are just now realizing this and I believe it is because of this that you are so surprised with yourselves.

"I agree, and that is why every time another recognition comes your way I keep asking whether it’s going to change the internal dynamics of Kosovo. The minute Thaci can cross the Ibar and exert his own authority in the middle of KM will be the minute I yield to your challenge. Until that time, Pristina is deluding itself it's anything close to resembling a "functioning state", let alone a "multiethnic society."

-- Way to early to tell that. If that is going to happen it will take decades not a couple of years and I'll be the first one to tell you that it will be in some form of Federalism if multi-ethnicity is to work. It won't be Bosnia style as that has shown not to work but some formula that would allow the Serbian areas to be in control of their lives. Maybe I am not being realistic but there is a chance that Kosova will be EU's first hybrid territory. (Insert your own interpretation in hybrid whether it is independent, autonomous or protectorate its up to you). Also Serbia's EU accession will be conditioned by giving up any claim or vestiges of sovereignty over to EU and the possibility of having any voting rights in the EU on issues regarding Kosova. Completley my own speculations.
Recognitions while they have no effect when taken one by one eventually if numbers continue to grow will have impact as the more support the better it is. That is why Vuk is so afraid of them and flew so fast to the Islamic League when recognition of Kosova was up for discussion. This Jerusalem comment from Vuk, rest assured it will become very handy next time the League of Islamic Nation gathers. Rest assuered that it will be mentioned.

"Really? Then why is it that every time we come here we hear some EU official state the critical need for Belgrade to be a part of the EU in order to bring stability to the Balkans? If Serbia were as irrelevant as you suggest, it really wouldn’t matter what they say, right? Obviously Serbia is the keystone. You DO know that Milošević and his politics are long dead, right?"

-- Are you even asking that? The answer is simple. In 1990's Serbia was the main aggressor and warmonger country in the Balkans. It has to be kept in check. Its a game of carrots and sticks.


"I’ll agree with you that pouting their way out of conferences and summits every time a K Albanian shows up is the wrong way to go, but at the very least it furthers the need of international brokers to find some way forward in the name of cooperation and consensus. That they need to continue to use EULEX or even UNMIK simply perpetuates the need to keep international officials in the role of executive authority. No Serb official will ever meet Thaci & Co. as equals. As for the embassy thing, I was in Belgrade when it happened. Much ado about nothing. CNN made it look like all of Belgrade was ablaze in anti-American sentiment. I’d be more concerned with growing resentment among the Albanian community towards EULEX in the near future. Washington and Belgrade seem to have gotten past that. And besides, setting fire to an embassy pales in comparison to setting fire to churches and homes, and desecrating graveyards after the ceasing of hostilities, particularly when it comes from a group of people that purport to be far more “European” than the Serbs."

-- I'll let you know a little secret. The US, the West or for that most of the world doesn't really care if a mosque or church is burned in the Balkans; but boy they really do care if they see their embassies burned and their flags burned. Let me remind you that the Tanks of Serbia destroyed hundreds of Mosques and plenty of Catholic churches in Croatia also. Let me also remind you that homes were burned by the Serbian state while people were still inside. As for graveyards there are still massive graves in Batjanica inside Serbia proper.
As for Serbia not meeting as equals those elected by the people of Kosova; I've said it a lot of times that we Albanians are ok with that. If the Serbs want to leave conferences that is more than ok with us. If they do not want to meet with us, that is ok with us. We have moved on; we have no particular need to sit on a table with Serb officials. Leaving conferences doesn't highlight need of brokers, it highlights Serbia's irresponsible behavior. It show's that Serbia behaves as a bitter woman that had a fight with another woman hence it leaves every single party the other woman is invited to.

“In the end the Balkans has always been the arena of politics, policies, games, and wars which have always been proxy politics, policies, games, and wars. Serbia will take some time to get used to the fact that the Albanian factor in the Balkans is no longer isolated and that just like Serbia they can too form allies so those proxy policies, politics, wars etc are no longer so obviously one sided, where the Serbs have all the support and we have none.”

"I agree with you 100% on this, but you seem to overlook the fact that proxy politics change like the wind. One minute Serbia is the darling of the West, as it was in the early 20th century. The next minute it’s the pariah. Don’t think for a minute the United States has any strategic interest in Albanians beyond what they provide us. And don’t think that Serbia remains the pariah state of the 1990s. I’m not trying to over-romanticize like some more zealous Serb posters here, but Jeremić represents that element of Serbian politics that realizes the best way to move forward is to cooperate with the West, especially those powers that are seemingly bent on isolating them. Albanians do not, nor have they ever, held a monopoly on victimization. It suited the interests of my country to support the Albanians in the 1990s when Milošević was making grand overtones to Russia. Now that Serbia has asserted itself first and foremost as a European state and a key player for peace in the region, the ongoing belligerence of Albanian nationalism, veiled I might add within a flimsy shell of victimization and selective memory no more wretched than anyone else in the Balkans, may actually prove to backfire on them. The more willing Belgrade is willing to compromise and the more resilient Pristina remains in trying to claim authority in Kosovo it never had, those proxy politics you correctly mentioned may once again reverse."

--I agree on most of what you say but somehow I believe and, I may be completely wrong, the Serbs completely disregard and/or overlook the fact that just like them Albanians have the ability to make allies. Frankly this complete disregard works on our advantage. Also it would behoove you to read what you state and apply that to Serbia. Don't think that somehow the US and the EU have any strategic interest Serbians. I don't know but it seems the Serbs or the average Serb has this idea that they are the ones that are worth to deal with and that the rest of the world does not see Albanians as worthy to deal with and cooperate. Like you said proxy politics change with the wind and it seems to me the Serbs have yet to realize that the wind has changed and whether you want it to believe or not superpowers and big important countries are willing to deal with us more than they are willing to deal with Serbia.
Mike so far at least from what I have read Serbia has not offered to make any compromise. As I've written in previous post Serbia's constitution does not allow for compromise. On the contrary it binds the Serbians state to a resilient attitude. There are people who can see through this and certainly Jerusalem comments from a Serb official do not spell compromise. I believe that is backfiring. I have in mind the latest EULEX declarations.

My apologies but supporters of Israel, or Zionism cannot lecture Serbia about calling Kosovo its Jerusalem.

It is not the argument I would necessarily chose to make in the world arena but it is a valid argument and one that other countries have made / continue to make with regard to land which is historically significant to the mother country.

Those that talk about religious fundamentalism should realise (as real religous funtamentalists do) that neither Jeremic or the Serbian government are fundamentalist.

In the end this is an argument being made for political necessity. Perhaps it wouldn't be an argument that would be made at all by this government if international states such as US and the UK showed more even handedness on the Kosovo issue.

"The only ethnic cleansing that happened in Kosmet was to Serbs, Roma, Jews, Gorani and other loyal Yugoslav citizens carried out by the KLA under the noses of NATO. Have you ever condemned that? No you haven't. "
@ Niall
Reading this just makes me think:Thanks god ,and all western countries together with the mighty US that helped us out of your clutches.We have done nothing compared to what we should have done,i personally regret for that.

I’ll tell you “kid” you’re just spending energy in vain; 65 states have already recognized reality. Although your energy is your problem, the tax-payer’s money is another problem; it concerns ordinary people who barely manage to survive. The fact that he tries to prove something, as in this case his nationalistic attitude, tells that he is indeed a big nationalist. He failed to obscure it with double nationality Bosnian and Serbian, to be honest I have heard about Bosnian Serbs but never about the latest. Ultimately, seems that the kid has mixed up his mission; instead of lobbying hi shows a clear narcissism, imagining himself as a central simpatico kid who astonishes all around with his appearance!

"“They’re curious. They want to hear what you have to say to them because you’re different,” he(VUK) said. "

ps; as I mentioned before, vuk feeds on compliments, now he is even evloved to feeding himself. B92 next time ask him for a source or example on who or why he is "different", it would make a good read.

Isn't the New York Times part of that obscure cloud of "western media propaganda, hiding the truth about Srebrenica, Racak, out to demonize Serbs, etc etc etc".? And now they have a nice article about Jeremic. How does this fit with some of our friends here who talk about western media propaganda

For us Bosnians Banja Luka, Prijedor, Zvornik, and Srebrenica are our Jerusalems simple as that. The Serbian politicians should tell Dodik that fact and they should respect our country and its people and should stop their hypocritical backing for Dodik and his destructive policies.

Kosov@ is our land. If we go to historical claims, I think Serbia will end up losing quite a bit. Vojvodina is another part that doesn't belong to you, so I think you should be happy you didn't lose more considering you lost the war.

Let me spell it one more time. Kosova was Albanian is Albanian and will always be Albanian. Even at times when you ruled it remained Albanian.

We offered you to have Kosova as multicultural where you could feel home, but you don't want to accept it. Now you think that with 5% of population there you will be able to rule like in good old times..... Never!

I just hope for your sake you realize this!

>naturally, as a jew, i resent this obvious attempt by the belgrade regime to line itself up with Israel and the Jews. [...] kosovo/a needs to and is gradually embracing multi-ethnic pluralism, with full rights and free access for all.

roberto


...um, like Gaza, right?

Dude: please. Do as I say, not as I do - right?

“First let me make it clear once and for all for the Serb camp here. Kosova is something that not only we Albanians can never forget but something over which we have spilled blood over centuries and given our lives.” (johny)

-- Great! You have your collective memory for Kosovo. Serbs have theirs. Neither is more valid than the other. It’s just something both sides need to deal with and accept.

”For the last 2 centuries starting with Nacertanije (1844) Serbia's core foreign policy has been one of expansionism and creation of Greater Serbia.”

-- How is this different from numerous sources pointing to a Greater Albania which encompasses large parts of Serbia, Macedonia, Greece, and Montenegro? “Expansionism” continues even today with benign threats to extend control over Serbian enclaves that have clearly voiced their dissatisfaction with living under your rule. Great Serbia, Greater Albania, Greater Bulgaria, Greater Croatia – all have been part of the national policies of their respective states since the 19th century. Please don’t presume the Nacertanije is a unique characteristic of political culture in Southeast Europe.

”Name one specific issue that Serbia has actually won over Kosova and that Jeremic is to be credited for. Can you please leave this inflammatory language aside.”

-- I can name lots, though I’m sure you wouldn’t classify them as “victories”. Perhaps the greatest “victory” is keeping Kosovo’s status up in the air. With the might of some of the strongest democracies in the world theoretically behind you, Kosovo is in no better shape than it was in February 2008. Its status is being debated at the ICJ. It’s future for EU ascension is hopelessly blocked. The most powerful states in the world are neither forcing Serbia to acquiesce over Kosovo, nor are they making EU ascension conditional on recognition. EULEX openly cooperates with Belgrade while circumventing Pristina. Northern Kosovo remains all but a formal part of Serbia. Pristina occasionally gets the useless recognition to bolster its side, but you’re missing 7 key recognitions: Spain, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Cyprus, Russia and China. You need the first 5 to get into the EU and the last 2 to get into the UN. This was supposed to be an open and shut case, and it obviously wasn’t.

“Virtual battles and virtual wars are real only in the minds of the myth-makers and the brainwashed.”

-- I agree, and that is why every time another recognition comes your way I keep asking whether it’s going to change the internal dynamics of Kosovo. The minute Thaci can cross the Ibar and exert his own authority in the middle of KM will be the minute I yield to your challenge. Until that time, Pristina is deluding itself it's anything close to resembling a "functioning state", let alone a "multiethnic society".

“It is obvious that there is a total lack of respect for Serbia within the region let alone from the West.”

-- Really? Then why is it that every time we come here we hear some EU official state the critical need for Belgrade to be a part of the EU in order to bring stability to the Balkans? If Serbia were as irrelevant as you suggest, it really wouldn’t matter what they say, right? Obviously Serbia is the keystone. You DO know that Milošević and his politics are long dead, right?

“Serbia keeps pulling out ambassadors, keeps writing demarches, keeps leaving forums and regional meeting, keeps being ignored by the West and EULEX and occasionally burns a western embassy or two.”

-- I’ll agree with you that pouting their way out of conferences and summits every time a K Albanian shows up is the wrong way to go, but at the very least it furthers the need of international brokers to find some way forward in the name of cooperation and consensus. That they need to continue to use EULEX or even UNMIK simply perpetuates the need to keep international officials in the role of executive authority. No Serb official will ever meet Thaci & Co. as equals. As for the embassy thing, I was in Belgrade when it happened. Much ado about nothing. CNN made it look like all of Belgrade was ablaze in anti-American sentiment. I’d be more concerned with growing resentment among the Albanian community towards EULEX in the near future. Washington and Belgrade seem to have gotten past that. And besides, setting fire to an embassy pales in comparison to setting fire to churches and homes, and desecrating graveyards after the ceasing of hostilities, particularly when it comes from a group of people that purport to be far more “European” than the Serbs.

“In the end the Balkans has always been the arena of politics, policies, games, and wars which have always been proxy politics, policies, games, and wars. Serbia will take some time to get used to the fact that the Albanian factor in the Balkans is no longer isolated and that just like Serbia they can too form allies so those proxy policies, politics, wars etc are no longer so obviously one sided, where the Serbs have all the support and we have none.”

-- I agree with you 100% on this, but you seem to overlook the fact that proxy politics change like the wind. One minute Serbia is the darling of the West, as it was in the early 20th century. The next minute it’s the pariah. Don’t think for a minute the United States has any strategic interest in Albanians beyond what they provide us. And don’t think that Serbia remains the pariah state of the 1990s. I’m not trying to over-romanticize like some more zealous Serb posters here, but Jeremić represents that element of Serbian politics that realizes the best way to move forward is to cooperate with the West, especially those powers that are seemingly bent on isolating them. Albanians do not, nor have they ever, held a monopoly on victimization. It suited the interests of my country to support the Albanians in the 1990s when Milošević was making grand overtones to Russia. Now that Serbia has asserted itself first and foremost as a European state and a key player for peace in the region, the ongoing belligerence of Albanian nationalism, veiled I might add within a flimsy shell of victimization and selective memory no more wretched than anyone else in the Balkans, may actually prove to backfire on them. The more willing Belgrade is willing to compromise and the more resilient Pristina remains in trying to claim authority in Kosovo it never had, those proxy politics you correctly mentioned may once again reverse.

Do You remember Mr Thaci from February 2008??:
"We have confirmation by around 100 countries that they are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence immediately after we declare it. We will have a powerful and massive recognition,"

bwaaahaaaahaaaa

(Milan, 17 January 2010 16:39)

It appears to me that he was more or less correct about the numbers; probably not so regarding the timing. Today, 109 countries have implicitely (i.e. not through a formal statement) or explicitly (i.e. through a formal statement) recognized Kosovo. There is a minority that do not recognize it (i.e. have made formal statements to that effect). There are others which position is unknown.

Wow Johny what a statement , boy you know politics , to me that was eyeopening even though i study politics as hobby. Can somebody print what johny said and sent it to Vuk. Now I am albanian , and hate to say it but i like his work , his lobying to ghana, egypt , and other countries. But I see him as hypocrite. After reading nyt artikle about him. in my mind something poped op, what a hypocrtie is he. would his grandad, muslim grandad be proud of him. he should cease politics forever. And yeah about ghana and egypt who cares about them not recognizing kosovo. Egypt is the biggest muslim backstabing country of muslims from all arabs. Mubarak is the same thing like Sadam. And yeah every el fitr aid , Bajram he goes to pray in a mosque and is televised. Same like Jeremic

Kosov@ is our land. If we go to historical claims, I think Serbia will end up losing quite a bit. Vojvodina is another part that doesn't belong to you, so I think you should be happy you didn't lose more considering you lost the war.

Let me spell it one more time. Kosova was Albanian is Albanian and will always be Albanian. Even at times when you ruled it remained Albanian.

We offered you to have Kosova as multicultural where you could feel home, but you don't want to accept it. Now you think that with 5% of population there you will be able to rule like in good old times..... Never!

I just hope for your sake you realize this!
(alban, 18 January 2010 19:58)

kosovo was albanian?? Tell me when?? Tell me what albanian king build Gračanica or Visoki Dečani?? What albanian king is buried on the land of Kosovo?? Tell me any name of albanian ruler of Kosovo?? Maybe Branković dynasty was albanian (only time when Kosovo was independent state was when Kosovo was under realm of house Brankovići)??

You don't remember, that You albanians are minority in multiethnic Serbia?? So - You don't think about "multiethnicity" - but about nationalistic myths. Serbia is only real multiethnic state on the Balkan Peninsula.

Roberto, How dare YOU try to teach us what is and what is not holy for us.

You might've just said that only Jews have any right to history and claim to any holy sites.

Let me tell you something, Kosovo has been defended by the Serbs centuries ago as well.

You are getting worse by the day Roberto. All I can say is get lost and don't try to preach to the Serbs about what is important to them.

I will go one further and proclaim that Jerusalem is indeed very holy to the Muslims and you Jews should let it go. Leave it to the Muslims and Christians to decide as it has nothing to do with you.

Makes just as much sense as what you just said.

johny

its a pleasure to read your high level thinking comments.

(johny, 18 January 2010 19:49)
In regards to some of your veiwpoints,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKZufhh6xGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxYpTQUT0A&feature=PlayList&p=202F193BA37C28B5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=37



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7jNTNsGXZ0&feature=related

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=TpPWvubBL0MC&pg=PA239&lpg=PA239&dq=interpretations+of+nacertanije&source=bl&ots=QdaZL9E0ZJ&sig=QybI8LWIi86bgUoliRBMBMgdjZ4&hl=en&ei=c-BTS77mM8GLkAWDoYXACQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=interpretations%20of%20nacertanije&f=false

About Nacertanije it happens to be a document with international flavor Polish and Czech, supported by the Allies even Croatians such as Sisic, your interpretation comes out of a 1990's PR infowar that was used to justify pogroms on Serb populations. Nacertanije was initially developed to group all Serbs in a block later to include South slavs so as to be able to reject imperialistic ambitions of Austria and major powers of the time.

Sorry Johny, although you put up a compelling arguement and speak about equality(a praisworthy goal) the image Albanians have is through their own actions.

These actions do not go un-noticed, perhaps if Albanians in Kosovo acted with respect to Serbs and it's Sovreignty you might have made some freinds.
Johny it's 2010 no longer 1990's the foundations Kosovo is purportedly built on is a recipe of failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjP_9LOyBuk

It appears to me that he was more or less correct about the numbers; probably not so regarding the timing. Today, 109 countries have implicitely (i.e. not through a formal statement) or explicitly (i.e. through a formal statement) recognized Kosovo. There is a minority that do not recognize it (i.e. have made formal statements to that effect). There are others which position is unknown.
(Mark3, 17 January 2010 20:24)
Mr Thaci at February expected that until end of year 2008 Kosovo will be recognized by 100 or more countries. These dreams were in fact crushed. Until today - pseudoindependent Kosovo was recognized only by 65 of 192 countries (1/3). Some of them recognized them after US/EU pressure. So - were any "massive and strong" recognition. And will be not.

roberto

Why do you keep preaching your nonsense here?
And we don`t care what Biserko has to say either,she is a greater Croatian nationalist who lost her brother in August 1995 in Croatia when he tried to expell Serbs from their ancestral homes and therefore tries to harm Serb interests everywhere in her "humanitarian " work.
Not to forget her famous interview in CNN when she denied that any Serbs were cleasnsed in Croatia.
So much about her credibility.

We Serbs shouldn`t care what our enemies babble,we should stick together with our friends(Russia and China),
through smart policies strengthen our economic,political,military and demographic position and prepare ourselves for the day x while we keep kosovo de jure Serbian.

We don`t need moral lectures from anybody that identifies with a country that cleansed 3 million palestinians out of their homes.

The other problem with this line of thinking is: historical arguments no longer hold validity in contemporary politics. It is a poor justification in the case of Jerusalem as well. With both the Palestinians and the Kosovars, what has mattered more is 1)majorities/minorities and 2) respect for human rights. Historical arguments will never persuade an ahistorical United States, and they fall on deaf ears in a Europe that has great reason to fear claims to territory based on history (Trianon, anyone?)
(d.z., 18 January 2010 21:24)

While as always comments from the Serb camp blame the west, the first part of the comment has some validity to it. I'll explain below.

Serbs is just one of the many different peoples that have occupied or influenced Kosova. The others being Albanians, Turks, and Romans. In this sense Serbia's attachment at least historically, to Kosova is in no way anymore special than the others, such as Albanians, Turks or Romans. Romans gave the region Christianity and ruled it around a thousand years. The Turks ruled for 500 years. The Albanians have been there for centuries, the Serbs have been there for centuries. No historical argument as far as who WAS where can be made. It is all about who IS where and how we deal with it.

Thus this becomes a management issue. Who can manage the situation better and how can this situation be managed better? Obviously I'm biased but by looking to this as a management problem it becomes obvious that indepndence is the best and most manageable scenario. The reason why I say that is simple. It is easier for the west and the rest of the world to manage around 200 thousand unhappy Serbs among 2million Albanians who are loyal to the West than manage 2 million unhappy Albanians under Serbia who not only is not loyal to the West but has shown to be loyal to Russia; West's adversary politically and at many times militarily. Also in terms of monetary costs, and people's costs it is far more less costly to build bases and maintain an armed presence in an independent Kosova than wage war anytime the likes of Milosevic, Kostunica, or Sesejl take power. It is less costly to offer EU membership to Serbia than to deal with a Serbia that resembles more to Iran then to Cyprus (like the current situation).

Johnny wrote:
" While for you its all about metaphors, hyperbolas, symbols, oxymorons, and romantic nationalism, for us its as real as it gets, its about survival, its about abolishing and breaking the chains of slavery, its about freedom."


You're kidding me right??
Do you realize that you've shot yourself with that statement?
If it's about symbolism and fake stories, believe me.. the Serbs could LEARN something from the K-albanians..Your culture doesn't know anything else but to SURROUND yourselves with the blanket of nationalism, since it's fed you for the last 100 years...

Please drop the "Greater Serbia" dream. The "Greater Albania" push is far more closer to the truth.

Your outdated Austro-Hungarian 19th century school of thought is ridiculous...

As far as Jeremic is concerned, he's simply doing his job, and you Albanians take it personally...What's with your insecurities?

You keep claiming Kosovo is independent?
If it looks like a donkey, and sounds like a donkey, and smells like a donkey, why argue about it?

I get a kick out of how much you people jump at every word Jeremic says.....

Abanians worry about Serbian tax payer money spent.LOL
They are attacking Jeremic like crazy so I think he is doing a very good job.
When he took over under Kostunica Serbias position was bad,now we have Eu and Nato countries blocking our southern province and the recognitions(which are insignificant,as Mauretania has a say about our province) have stopped.
And he secured Russian and Chinese veto support.

If Albanians would praise him I would immediately demand him to step down.

Young age does not mean fresh ideas inside the youngster’s mind. To the contrary, many young people are sometimes more conservative and radical than their parents.

There’s a whole generation of young Serbians who had grown up during the Milosevic era (watching Pink TV and listening to turbo-folks about 1389) that are much more religious and nationalists than their fathers.

To call Kosovo “Serb Jerusalem” is the same tactic used by Greater Serbian apologists to hide the fact that Kosovo was Serbian for just a short period of time, and to forget and deny the plans of Slobodan Milosevic’s regime.

Milosevic is dead, but sadly the Gazimestan Speech spirit is still very alive.

Jeremic is young. At the time SANU presented the “Memorandum” he was 10 years old. It was in this script that for the first time a relation was constructed between the sufferings of the Jewish people and Serbia, which even culminated in the use of the expression of a “Serbian holocaust”. In the scientific literature you can find a whole list of articles (from e.g. Jovan Byford) that deals with the question: “Why Serbian scholars, authors and politicians so often use a liaison between the Jewish and Serbian fate”. In the Memorandum it is Jasenovac as the example how during centuries the Serbian people are the victims on the Balkans like the Jews in the world. During and after the Balkan wars this special relation was extended and deepened especially in some declarations and publications of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The expression:”Kosovo is our Jerusalem” found its way.
The use of the term is, historically and ethically a failure and is only serving propagandistic means. Even the fact that it is understandable that to Jeremic in his daily life in Serbia this expression is commonly used, on the international stage as some of the comments show it is disconcerting.

During and after the Balkan wars this special relation was extended and deepened especially in some declarations and publications of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The expression:”Kosovo is our Jerusalem” found its way.

and each time this expression reappears,it means that serbs are preparing the public opinion for an other bloody action,and to excuse it,they want to convince you that they have a divine right to do so!
miloshevic too did began his bloody carrier with this formula!

And of course I would like Brittney Spears to be my girlfriend, but it won't happen!

johny,

I add my voice to those happy to see your comments. It’s nice to see someone on the Albanian side every so often attempt to *discuss* instead of shout empty nationalist slogans ad nauseum. There’s only a few things from your last post that I think need some form of clarification:

The “Jerusalem” reference to Kosovo: it is a rather normative explanation for why Serbia wants to retain Kosovo, and I’m glad it’s not used at all in official diplomatic statements. It’s more of a metaphor than anything else. Jeremić could have easily said it’s our “Mecca” as well, but the present metaphor is an old one. Might I also add its appropriately used in American media where readers will easily associate with such language. Remember he’s talking to a newspaper, not the United Nations. And in this overly Christianist pro-Israeli society of ours, it hits a strategic mark. It’s symbolism more than anything else.

Your seeming effort to associate Garasanin’s Nacertanije with the politics of Milošević: We need to be careful here for a number of reasons. First, it is highly dangerous to associate a document written in 1844 with politics that reflect situations in 1991. The Nacertanije is one of the most misunderstood elements of 19th century Serbian history and many contemporary historians have erroneously connected one with the other. That is not the case at all. Second, we have to remember Serbia in 1844 was still, technically, a part of the Ottoman Empire. Statements of such grandiose expansion resonated little outside a small handful of Western European-educated Serbian intellectuals. Third, the Nacertanije’s goal was that of liberating all South Slavs, not dominating them. I’m sure you know that back then it was common for all South Slavs to see themselves as one people united in language but separated by religion. That Serbia was going to be at the forefront of liberating the Balkans from Turkish and Austrian control was no different than the Risorgiomento of Italy. And while it was mentioned that Skadar/Shkodër was to be part of Serbia’s access to the sea, Garasanin was very careful to cooperate with the local Albanian officials there. Under no circumstances did the Nacertanije ever advocate ethnic cleansing. I’m not sure if you’ve ever read the actual text, but a part of states, and I quote, “If Serbia gives her neighbors the impression, by bad and unfortunate example, that she thinks only of herself and does not care to concern herself with the advancement and problems of others, but would rather be indifferent to them, they would certainly follow the example set by Serbia and not obey her, thus replacing harmony and unity by distrust and envy.” In short, a feeling of historic destiny, not chauvinism, was the driving force behind early visions of an enlarged Serbian state. Whatever what proposed under Milošević (and here one really has to argue it was more the tool of Šešelj’s neo-fascists than Slobo) was one of pure ethnocentrism, and a concerted defeat and demobilization of opposition.

Therefore, when we talk of a “Greater Serbia”, we really have to differentiate between mid to late 19th century inclusive conceptions and late 20th century exclusionary variants. A policy of ethnic cleansing was hardly a vocation of traditional Serbian politics. “Greater Serbia” is just as much a tool of other nations as you claim “Greater Albania” is. When you write of sending armies into neighboring countries, I ask you when did Serbia ever “invade” Albania? And while no conventional Albanian army ever “invaded” Serbia, enough historical evidence exists to suggest a concerted effort was already in the works as early as 1981 to break Kosovo off from Yugoslavia and join it with Albania – a form of benign invasion of settlers from Albania proper crossing the border to escape the draconian government of Hoxha. Albanians will always look to Serbian aggression against them as a reason for secession, but we keep forgetting the motive for secession existed long before Milošević came to power.

As for the rest (status, future), it’s your interpretation against mine. Our opinions intersect on some and diverge on others. I think we both agree that there needs to be some give and take and that both sides should be under no illusions a final settlement is going to be either easy to achieve, or fair to agree with. But we also need to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of those Great Powers that love to utilize proxies in SE Europe is for stability. And if stability means having to snip Kosovo’s “sovereignty” here and there, as they've already done with Serbia, and are currently doing with Bosnia, they’ll do it. If Kosovo’s independence was coterminous with stability, we would have seen a far better plan of action and a far more concerted attempt at getting Belgrade to imply. You say Belgrade has been unwilling to compromise, yet I have not heard one gesture by Pristina in attempting to mollify the situation. Rather, I continue to read about Thaci beating the drums of expansion (yes, “expansion”) into areas in Kosovo formally outside of his control and taking the mantle of Milošević in attempting to stamp out what he regards as illegal “parallel” institutions, regardless of what the people think or want. I have yet to see one single offer from Pristina to the Kosovo Serbs that can trump what they can get from Belgrade. In the end you may very well be right about some form of co-federalization of Kosovo, and I suspect this is going to have to at least be considered prior to Serbia’s EU entry. But at least in my opinion I think the Bosnia scenario is looking increasingly likely. Remember, the West loves things that appear to work. Not actually work. If the way to get Belgrade to formally write off the Albanian parts of Kosovo is to allow them full retention of the Serbian parts, even if it means transforming KM into a veritable Banja Luka, I really wouldn’t put it past Brussels.

Again, the comments are much appreciated.

I truly feel sorry for these negative voices. From experience, I know that maliciousness and lies always make one stronger and eager to succeed. So, go ahead, spew your hate and lies as you always done in the past. That can only mean one thing. Serbia is progressing very well thanks to few smart politiciens including young minister Jeremic. Serbs should be very proud!!!Those that hate so much can only get themselves heart attack-I would not want that to happen to you. Search some help please.

what a pathetic argument. israel is in violation of international law and has illegally annexed territories to gain control over jerusalem - including the buildling of an apartheid wall to segregate the Palesitnian population. this comparison represents the worst and most retrograde side of serbian nationalism, more worthy of seselj, karadzic, plavsic and their ilk...

The other problem with this line of thinking is: historical arguments no longer hold validity in contemporary politics. It is a poor justification in the case of Jerusalem as well. With both the Palestinians and the Kosovars, what has mattered more is 1)majorities/minorities and 2) respect for human rights. Historical arguments will never persuade an ahistorical United States, and they fall on deaf ears in a Europe that has great reason to fear claims to territory based on history (Trianon, anyone?)

So many countries and so many flight hours, and yet still did not manage to prevant recognitions only to slow it down. Big suprise after ICJ opinion is rendered. Vuk will most likely be sacked after that, for wasting tax payers money.

If Jeremic really believes that Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem, then probably he should consider that Serbia should start acting like Israel. Meaning that he should claim what is Serbia's right more drastically and in a way like Israel does. Stop "swallowing" whatever US serves you. And stop accepting the blind nationalism of the (totally powerless and politically unimportant) Albanians. Nobody can help you out, if you don't want to help yourselves fisrt. We all know that Kosovo is "theoretically" Serbia but we trully are not sure if you can keep it in practise, or if you really want to keep it actually...

“They’re curious. They want to hear what you have to say to them because you’re different,” he(VUK) said.

Hehe, Different like Tadic's conditions for Croatian presidental innaguration.

And as for "Jerusalem", isnt it fun that its is sorounded by 280 million Arabs, and Kosovo by 250 million Slavs.

It is Jerusalem, and you are on the wrong side of the gate, so stop asking people to help your occupation :)
Keep flying superman

Serbia should be proud to have a foreign minister like that! Bravo!

Keep up the good work WOlf.

"Well, Jero then you have lost Jerusalem. Thank the Serbian leadership for that"
Plain truth

Someone can kidnap your child but the child will still always be yours. That's why Serbia and Kosovo are one forever, one way or the other.

Jeremic is dreaming!!

“Personally, I don’t think I’m a nationalist,” he said. “I’m half Bosnian and half Serb.”

Is he serious? That makes you not a nationalist, in the same vain as, say, Mladic, Karadzic? Funny man this Jeremic.

Now that Jeremic says Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem, I expect him to tell this to all 40 of the Islamic Countries who have not recognized Kosovo. Will he be man enough to do it? I doubt it, but no worries because Kosovo FM Hiseni happen to be in Cairo and I am sure he will use this gem from Jeremic. Thanks Vuk!

Interesting words. Jerusalem is a city which is important for Jews, Christians and Muslims so why should Israel have it? The UN doesn't nor do most countries recognise Jerusalem being apart of Israel. Kosovo is important to Serbs, Albanians, Montenegrins etc therefore why should either Serbia or Albania have it. It should be independent and multi ethnic like Kosovo.

"“They’re curious. They want to hear what you have to say to them because you’re different,” he(VUK) said. "

ps; as I mentioned before, vuk feeds on compliments, now he is even evloved to feeding himself. B92 next time ask him for a source or example on who or why he is "different", it would make a good read.

...and Sharr Mountain is Mount Everest.

Having spent time in both Kosovo and Jerusalem, I am sorry that one cannot equate the former with the latter. It is inaccurate to compare an entire province with a single city. Serbs do not pray in the direction of Kosovo. Most have never been there, and have no intention of going. There is no discussion of making Kosovo the future capital of the Serbian state. Jerusalem is unique, occupying rare and special place for Judaism, Islam, and Christianity alike. If Serbs are Christian, Jerusalem is their Jerusalem.

Obviously intended for zionist consumption, this guy is cleaver but this one wont fly.

AIPAC, "the New york money men" & Co was FOR bombing Serbia and ripping off parts of her, Clinton where their man. They wont tolerate competition in one of their most sacred trade marks ("next year in Jerusalem"), no more than they tolerate any other "Holocaust" than the "Shoa". Serbs are not part of their tribe so im afraid this "Jerusalem" thing will have the opposite effect.

And just for the record, Serbs are not jews. Serbs have always been in Kosovo. Sometimes in majority somethimes not.

well this FM it is really wrong he really anytime when he speak he speaks on kosovo favor let me tell you the world all world is tired with jerusalem they can not finde a solution there do you think Europa and USA will allow one more jerusalem in the middle of europa apsolutly not, they will stick with Ahtisari plan Kosovo-case is done they close this and throu the key away, yerusalem definitly europa no want one more jerusalem here in the middle of europa very wrong nister vuk-jeremic

Well, Jero then you have lost Jerusalem. Thank the Serbian leadership for that

Religious Fundamentalism, that is how we describe that in our society, Mr. Jeremic. You only prove today that your will is not based on sense or even International Law.

# Religious Fundamentalism, that is how we describe that in our society, Mr. Jeremic. You only prove today that your will is not based on sense or even International Law.
(Derek, 17 January 2010 16:07)

thank you. sonia biserko calls it Serbian Fundamentalism. once i heard that term it really helped open my eyes to what we have had to deal with in the balkans, at least for the last 25 years. and it ain't pretty.

naturally, as a jew, i resent this obvious attempt by the belgrade regime to line itself up with Israel and the Jews. in fact, as has been pointed out, jerusalem is considered holy by many people, in facts billions in this world. how much blood has been spilt over "Holy Jerusalem" throughout history -- how much more will be? when jerusalem was occupied by the other side, it was hardly neutral or free. compromises need to be found in the middle east. judging by the current leadership there, and specifically the belligerent right-wing israeli political elite, we have a very long ways to go.

mush of this talk about "holy Kosovo" is simply disingenuous. If it were so holy to you, maybe you shouldn't have discriminated against and mass murdered so many of kosovo's citizens. maybe you shouldn't have tried to expel nearly a million of them. that doesn't sound so very holy to me. it sounds more like the most vulgar manifestations of ultra-nationalism, which you clearly continue to represent, whatever your age (who cares?).

then comes the other point -- that this regime continues to destabilize its other neighbors, most specifically Bosnia. is their "RS" also holy? me thinks this is just another phony ploy.

kosovo/a needs to and is gradually embracing multi-ethnic pluralism, with full rights and free access for all. serbia needs to as well. serbia needs to deal with its very dirty past. with politicos like jeremic and co., we continue to move in the wrong direction.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Mr FM,

If it is why you never come for a visit, i can tell you a nice hotel where you can stay and sites to visit!!

Jeremić: Kosovo is Serbia’s Jerusalem


You've made me laugh too loud. He's sort of young politician and of course he'll be making mistakes.
Jeremic could have had better career if he had his own late night show, he's got that sense of humor.

By saying that Kosova is Serbia's Jerusalem you should order your army to try and reoccupy Kosova, too bad that's not going to happen ever again.

Jeremić: Kosovo is Serbia’s Jerusalem ?
--
I wouldn't be too sure about that.
You may have trouble understanding,
WHY.

Well since Mr Jeremic opened the season for wishfull thinking then also Serbia (well while I am at it actually the entire region of former Yugoslavia) is Jerusalem of Illyrians (predecessors of Albanians) and thus it is the Jerusalem of Albanians!

What a joke. And to think that this chap is a FM!

Serbia's current government is the "most western oriented" it has ever had. But it keeps recalling its ambassadors from the West. That says a lot.

@ Roberto
Frisco

I really enjoy your comments and I'm happy someone outsite Balkan is so informed and your comments are always very well writen. All the best Roberto and keep writing. Thanx

Jeremic must have had a very bad sleep the night before this interview I can't belive it now they try this way to get Kosovo back but this would never ever happend.

So many countries and so many flight hours, and yet still did not manage to prevant recognitions only to slow it down. Big suprise after ICJ opinion is rendered. Vuk will most likely be sacked after that, for wasting tax payers money.
(Kosova-USA, 17 January 2010 11:20)
The Islamic Republic of Mauritania just recognized Kosovo,if you could point out this powerhouse on a map I would appreciate it.God bless Kosmet.

and about kosovo/a -- any regrets? the mass murders, the systematic rapes, the GENOCIDE. the attempt to expel nearly 1 million albanians from their land... the mass graves of albanians, throoughout serbia proper! just that kosovo/a is "holy" to serbs, and we'll do whatever it takes! (no war or more paramilitaries, at least not for the moment.)



roberto
frisco
(roberto, 17 January 2010 23:59)

Do you have any proof whatsoever to come up with that twaddle? There was no state sponsored genocide or ethnic cleansing in Kosmet by the Yugoslav authorities.

The only ethnic cleansing that happened in Kosmet was to Serbs, Roma, Jews, Gorani and other loyal Yugoslav citizens carried out by the KLA under the noses of NATO. Have you ever condemned that? No you haven't.

You are nothing but a faceless hypocrite. Now go away and spin your lies somewhere else.

Not a surprise the Albanians here bristle at anything focusing on Jeremic. He's long been the ire of their plans of expansion and the single most visible representation of the refusal of Serbia to simply bend over and take it what they get up the - um - hind quarters. Still, it's a great article in that it portrays this charismatic 34 year old as the new face of Serbia: Western leaning, Western educated, and able to not only treat with the Big Powers, but facilitate conditions in which the Great Powers must treat with Belgrade. I see a bright future for Jeremic in the years ahead. Who could have imagined that someone as young as he could basically stem the tide of American encroachment in SE Europe and turn Serbia from the "pariah" into the most strategic partner for peace and stability in the region? He certainly hasn't won every battle, but he's held his own far more than many would have given him credit for.

As for the apparent misunderstanding here about the Jerusalem metaphor, Kosov for Serbs is something they can never forget. Like the Jews, Jerusalem had been taken from them repeatedly over the centuries, yet the Jews never ceased to sing for it. The metaphor is certainly a product of 19th century Romantic Nationalism, but it's an appropriate one I might add.
(Mike, 17 January 2010 17:55)


Oh, boy. Where do I start Mike. Let me start from the end. First let me make it clear once and for all for the Serb camp here. Kosova is something that not only we Albanians can never forget but something over which we have spilled blood over centuries and given our lives. Our children have payed with their lives. While for you its all about metaphors, hyperbolas, symbols, oxymorons, and romantic nationalism, for us its as real as it gets, its about survival, its about abolishing and breaking the chains of slavery, its about freedom. Fake metaphors such as the ones your minister makes are too distant to describe our attachment with Kosova. Having said that I am also encouraged by this complete lack of information and complete negligence the Serb camp has over what Kosova means for Albanians and our resolve. It is an advantage for us.

Mike If I was a Serb I wouldn't dare accuse others of expansionism. For the last 2 centuries starting with Nacertanije (1844) Serbia's core foreign policy has been one of expansionism and creation of Greater Serbia. Do I need to remind you again that in the 1990's the Balkans were in a war exactly because of that? Do I need to post here again, as I've done in the past, Serbian Government publications over how this was to be achieved. Last one was even published in Serbian papers authored by someone named Sesejl in the late 90's.

Now lets talk about Jeremic. Can you name me one issue when it comes to Kosova that he has actually won? I am having a hard time figuring that out. Not talking about many virtual victories he has claimed. Name one specific issue that Serbia has actually won over Kosova and that Jeremic is to be credited for. Can you please leave this inflammatory language aside. There have been no battles and wars since 1999. Virtual battles and virtual wars are real only in the minds of the myth-makers and the brainwashed. Also do not be so sure about what you call strategic partner. It is obvious that there is a total lack of respect for Serbia within the region let alone from the West. Serbia keeps pulling out ambassadors,keeps writing demarches, keeps leaving forums and regional meeting, keeps being ignored by the West and EULEX and occasionally burns a western embassy or two. This is certainly not how strategic partners are treated. Let's see if anyone cares if the president of such a strategic country does not go to Croatia as a sign of protest.

As for what you wrote in the beginning it is complete non-sense. I am not trying to offend you in any way by the way. Let me explain. Let me tell you that no Albanian ever expected or expects Serbia to agree over Kosova. We take that as a given and we move on from there; thus as such nobody from our side is surprised in any way. What I can also tell you though at least from what I read here is that it seems that Serbs themselves and those in the Serb camp are surprised that Serbia has not agreed with the West over Kosova yet; at least vocally. Tacitly we do not know what goes behind closed doors, we can always speculate.

Also do not be under any illusion that any of the Balkan states has actually any power to tell the EU or the US how they should treat them. Don't believe me? Just go back to the 90's and figure out how Serbia's arrogance and those internationally televised threats directed to the West and the US teaching them how they should treat Serbia paid off. Want more proof? Figure out how Cyprus ended up being the way it is and how a certain Kissinger responded to Greek threats about how the US should treat Greece. In the end the Balkans has always been the arena of politics, policies, games, and wars which have always been proxy politics, policies, games, and wars. Serbia will take some time to get used to the fact that the Albanian factor in the Balkans is no longer isolated and that just like Serbia they can too form allies so those proxy policies, politics, wars etc are no longer so obviously one sided, where the Serbs have all the support and we have none. Things have changed and with time Serbia will figure out that its position has changed, that it no longer can be Russia's darling and the West darling at the same time. Just like us Albanians figured out that it was not the World's fault that we had no support but it was our self-isolation and anger towards the West that lead us to a situation in which we no longer could count on anyone's support; Serbia too in the near future will figure out that Albanians are no longer unsupported anymore and that its policies need to change accordingly; those 100 years old policies towards Albanians and/or Kosova are no longer valid and certainly not working no matter how many virtual diplomatic victories Jeremic claims. Times have changed, Albanians have support. Serbia hasn't figured this out yet; but it will eventually. It will figure out that it can no longer expect the same results as it had in the last century when Albanians were totally isolated and had no strong international support whatsoever.

So many countries and so many flight hours, and yet still did not manage to prevant recognitions only to slow it down. Big suprise after ICJ opinion is rendered. Vuk will most likely be sacked after that, for wasting tax payers money.
(Kosova-USA, 17 January 2010 11:20)

There are very good results - Kosovo have any chance to join UN and EU - and will be pseudoindependent "black hole" ;)

Do You remember Mr Thaci from February 2008??:
"We have confirmation by around 100 countries that they are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence immediately after we declare it. We will have a powerful and massive recognition,"

bwaaahaaaahaaaa

And who is better politicians?? Jeremić or dreaming-man Thaci?? "powerful and massive recognition" :D

Good article. American public has zero knowledge about most of Europe and in particular Kosovo.

They have no knowledge about what it is now, what it used to be 400 or 600 years ago. Comparing it to Jerusalem is as close as they can understand.

My apologies but supporters of Israel, or Zionism cannot lecture Serbia about calling Kosovo its Jerusalem.

It is not the argument I would necessarily chose to make in the world arena but it is a valid argument and one that other countries have made / continue to make with regard to land which is historically significant to the mother country.

Those that talk about religious fundamentalism should realise (as real religous funtamentalists do) that neither Jeremic or the Serbian government are fundamentalist.

In the end this is an argument being made for political necessity. Perhaps it wouldn't be an argument that would be made at all by this government if international states such as US and the UK showed more even handedness on the Kosovo issue.

Do You remember Mr Thaci from February 2008??:
"We have confirmation by around 100 countries that they are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence immediately after we declare it. We will have a powerful and massive recognition,"

bwaaahaaaahaaaa

(Milan, 17 January 2010 16:39)

It appears to me that he was more or less correct about the numbers; probably not so regarding the timing. Today, 109 countries have implicitely (i.e. not through a formal statement) or explicitly (i.e. through a formal statement) recognized Kosovo. There is a minority that do not recognize it (i.e. have made formal statements to that effect). There are others which position is unknown.

Roberto, How dare YOU try to teach us what is and what is not holy for us.

You might've just said that only Jews have any right to history and claim to any holy sites.

Let me tell you something, Kosovo has been defended by the Serbs centuries ago as well.

You are getting worse by the day Roberto. All I can say is get lost and don't try to preach to the Serbs about what is important to them.

I will go one further and proclaim that Jerusalem is indeed very holy to the Muslims and you Jews should let it go. Leave it to the Muslims and Christians to decide as it has nothing to do with you.

Makes just as much sense as what you just said.

"If Jeremic really believes that Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem, then probably he should consider that Serbia should start acting like Israel"

Indeed, get a lot of money and create an AIPAC of Serbs in the US, move the focus from the middle east to the balkans. Get the western powers to bomb k-albs with white phosporous and other crimes agains humanity and occupie Croatia and Hungary, instead of Afghanistan and Iraq. Expand into every nearby country even Albania proper and abolish the constitution and the definition of borders until you get a desired result, eventually...

>naturally, as a jew, i resent this obvious attempt by the belgrade regime to line itself up with Israel and the Jews. [...] kosovo/a needs to and is gradually embracing multi-ethnic pluralism, with full rights and free access for all.

roberto


...um, like Gaza, right?

Dude: please. Do as I say, not as I do - right?

Young age does not mean fresh ideas inside the youngster’s mind. To the contrary, many young people are sometimes more conservative and radical than their parents.

There’s a whole generation of young Serbians who had grown up during the Milosevic era (watching Pink TV and listening to turbo-folks about 1389) that are much more religious and nationalists than their fathers.

To call Kosovo “Serb Jerusalem” is the same tactic used by Greater Serbian apologists to hide the fact that Kosovo was Serbian for just a short period of time, and to forget and deny the plans of Slobodan Milosevic’s regime.

Milosevic is dead, but sadly the Gazimestan Speech spirit is still very alive.

Jeremic is young. At the time SANU presented the “Memorandum” he was 10 years old. It was in this script that for the first time a relation was constructed between the sufferings of the Jewish people and Serbia, which even culminated in the use of the expression of a “Serbian holocaust”. In the scientific literature you can find a whole list of articles (from e.g. Jovan Byford) that deals with the question: “Why Serbian scholars, authors and politicians so often use a liaison between the Jewish and Serbian fate”. In the Memorandum it is Jasenovac as the example how during centuries the Serbian people are the victims on the Balkans like the Jews in the world. During and after the Balkan wars this special relation was extended and deepened especially in some declarations and publications of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The expression:”Kosovo is our Jerusalem” found its way.
The use of the term is, historically and ethically a failure and is only serving propagandistic means. Even the fact that it is understandable that to Jeremic in his daily life in Serbia this expression is commonly used, on the international stage as some of the comments show it is disconcerting.

Johnny wrote:
" While for you its all about metaphors, hyperbolas, symbols, oxymorons, and romantic nationalism, for us its as real as it gets, its about survival, its about abolishing and breaking the chains of slavery, its about freedom."


You're kidding me right??
Do you realize that you've shot yourself with that statement?
If it's about symbolism and fake stories, believe me.. the Serbs could LEARN something from the K-albanians..Your culture doesn't know anything else but to SURROUND yourselves with the blanket of nationalism, since it's fed you for the last 100 years...

Please drop the "Greater Serbia" dream. The "Greater Albania" push is far more closer to the truth.

Your outdated Austro-Hungarian 19th century school of thought is ridiculous...

As far as Jeremic is concerned, he's simply doing his job, and you Albanians take it personally...What's with your insecurities?

You keep claiming Kosovo is independent?
If it looks like a donkey, and sounds like a donkey, and smells like a donkey, why argue about it?

I get a kick out of how much you people jump at every word Jeremic says.....

roberto

Why do you keep preaching your nonsense here?
And we don`t care what Biserko has to say either,she is a greater Croatian nationalist who lost her brother in August 1995 in Croatia when he tried to expell Serbs from their ancestral homes and therefore tries to harm Serb interests everywhere in her "humanitarian " work.
Not to forget her famous interview in CNN when she denied that any Serbs were cleasnsed in Croatia.
So much about her credibility.

We Serbs shouldn`t care what our enemies babble,we should stick together with our friends(Russia and China),
through smart policies strengthen our economic,political,military and demographic position and prepare ourselves for the day x while we keep kosovo de jure Serbian.

We don`t need moral lectures from anybody that identifies with a country that cleansed 3 million palestinians out of their homes.

I’ll tell you “kid” you’re just spending energy in vain; 65 states have already recognized reality. Although your energy is your problem, the tax-payer’s money is another problem; it concerns ordinary people who barely manage to survive. The fact that he tries to prove something, as in this case his nationalistic attitude, tells that he is indeed a big nationalist. He failed to obscure it with double nationality Bosnian and Serbian, to be honest I have heard about Bosnian Serbs but never about the latest. Ultimately, seems that the kid has mixed up his mission; instead of lobbying hi shows a clear narcissism, imagining himself as a central simpatico kid who astonishes all around with his appearance!

"The only ethnic cleansing that happened in Kosmet was to Serbs, Roma, Jews, Gorani and other loyal Yugoslav citizens carried out by the KLA under the noses of NATO. Have you ever condemned that? No you haven't. "
@ Niall
Reading this just makes me think:Thanks god ,and all western countries together with the mighty US that helped us out of your clutches.We have done nothing compared to what we should have done,i personally regret for that.

Here is the link to the full article:

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/16/world/europe/16jeremic.html

Not a surprise the Albanians here bristle at anything focusing on Jeremic. He's long been the ire of their plans of expansion and the single most visible representation of the refusal of Serbia to simply bend over and take it what they get up the - um - hind quarters. Still, it's a great article in that it portrays this charismatic 34 year old as the new face of Serbia: Western leaning, Western educated, and able to not only treat with the Big Powers, but facilitate conditions in which the Great Powers must treat with Belgrade. I see a bright future for Jeremic in the years ahead. Who could have imagined that someone as young as he could basically stem the tide of American encroachment in SE Europe and turn Serbia from the "pariah" into the most strategic partner for peace and stability in the region? He certainly hasn't won every battle, but he's held his own far more than many would have given him credit for.

As for the apparent misunderstanding here about the Jerusalem metaphor, Kosov for Serbs is something they can never forget. Like the Jews, Jerusalem had been taken from them repeatedly over the centuries, yet the Jews never ceased to sing for it. The metaphor is certainly a product of 19th century Romantic Nationalism, but it's an appropriate one I might add.

I truly feel sorry for these negative voices. From experience, I know that maliciousness and lies always make one stronger and eager to succeed. So, go ahead, spew your hate and lies as you always done in the past. That can only mean one thing. Serbia is progressing very well thanks to few smart politiciens including young minister Jeremic. Serbs should be very proud!!!Those that hate so much can only get themselves heart attack-I would not want that to happen to you. Search some help please.

Abanians worry about Serbian tax payer money spent.LOL
They are attacking Jeremic like crazy so I think he is doing a very good job.
When he took over under Kostunica Serbias position was bad,now we have Eu and Nato countries blocking our southern province and the recognitions(which are insignificant,as Mauretania has a say about our province) have stopped.
And he secured Russian and Chinese veto support.

If Albanians would praise him I would immediately demand him to step down.

(johny, 18 January 2010 19:49)
In regards to some of your veiwpoints,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKZufhh6xGQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DxYpTQUT0A&feature=PlayList&p=202F193BA37C28B5&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=37



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7jNTNsGXZ0&feature=related

http://books.google.com.au/books?id=TpPWvubBL0MC&pg=PA239&lpg=PA239&dq=interpretations+of+nacertanije&source=bl&ots=QdaZL9E0ZJ&sig=QybI8LWIi86bgUoliRBMBMgdjZ4&hl=en&ei=c-BTS77mM8GLkAWDoYXACQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=7&ved=0CCEQ6AEwBg#v=onepage&q=interpretations%20of%20nacertanije&f=false

About Nacertanije it happens to be a document with international flavor Polish and Czech, supported by the Allies even Croatians such as Sisic, your interpretation comes out of a 1990's PR infowar that was used to justify pogroms on Serb populations. Nacertanije was initially developed to group all Serbs in a block later to include South slavs so as to be able to reject imperialistic ambitions of Austria and major powers of the time.

Sorry Johny, although you put up a compelling arguement and speak about equality(a praisworthy goal) the image Albanians have is through their own actions.

These actions do not go un-noticed, perhaps if Albanians in Kosovo acted with respect to Serbs and it's Sovreignty you might have made some freinds.
Johny it's 2010 no longer 1990's the foundations Kosovo is purportedly built on is a recipe of failure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EjP_9LOyBuk

what a pathetic argument. israel is in violation of international law and has illegally annexed territories to gain control over jerusalem - including the buildling of an apartheid wall to segregate the Palesitnian population. this comparison represents the worst and most retrograde side of serbian nationalism, more worthy of seselj, karadzic, plavsic and their ilk...

"Great! You have your collective memory for Kosovo. Serbs have theirs. Neither is more valid than the other. It’s just something both sides need to deal with and accept."

--I agree with that statement. However fabricated statements such as Serbia's Jerusalem are not statements someone preaching peace should throw around. They become even more invalid considering that Belgrade's historical events.

"How is this different from numerous sources pointing to a Greater Albania which encompasses large parts of Serbia, Macedonia, Greece, and Montenegro? “Expansionism” continues even today with benign threats to extend control over Serbian enclaves that have clearly voiced their dissatisfaction with living under your rule. Great Serbia, Greater Albania, Greater Bulgaria, Greater Croatia – all have been part of the national policies of their respective states since the 19th century. Please don’t presume the Nacertanije is a unique characteristic of political culture in Southeast Europe."

--Huge, huge difference. You know it but you like not to acknowledge it. There has never been an Albanian boot in Serbia in Belgrade. There have continually been Serbian boots in Albania proper all the way down to Durres. Yes they even claimed Albania was Serbia's heart. If you want to know the names of those politicians at that time I will post them here. I've posted them in the past. The Albanian state has never had any plan such as the Naceranije the Serb state had let alone send the army to implement it. Let me know if you are willing to spend some time on vacation on our Riviera. You'll have the chance to see what a figment of imagination Great Albania is, and how much of a good tool that fairy tale is in the hands of the Serbian government. I am willing to find you accommodation.Also next time try not to equate us with any of those other states. Again the Albanian state has never sent its army inside the neighboring countries. While most of those countries you mention including Serbia have. That difference is Huge.

"I can name lots, though I’m sure you wouldn’t classify them as “victories”. Perhaps the greatest “victory” is keeping Kosovo’s status up in the air. With the might of some of the strongest democracies in the world theoretically behind you, Kosovo is in no better shape than it was in February 2008. Its status is being debated at the ICJ. It’s future for EU ascension is hopelessly blocked. The most powerful states in the world are neither forcing Serbia to acquiesce over Kosovo, nor are they making EU ascension conditional on recognition. EULEX openly cooperates with Belgrade while circumventing Pristina. Northern Kosovo remains all but a formal part of Serbia. Pristina occasionally gets the useless recognition to bolster its side, but you’re missing 7 key recognitions: Spain, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Cyprus, Russia and China. You need the first 5 to get into the EU and the last 2 to get into the UN. This was supposed to be an open and shut case, and it obviously wasn’t."

-- You rightly said so. How are those victories? I'll explain.
1. Russia and China are automatically in Serbia's pocket. This is their foreign policy by proxy I was talking about in my earlier post. Back Serbia to counter US and EU influence.
2. Kosova's status depends on your viewpoint. When US and vast majority of EU members countries are to be considered Kosova is no different than say Macedonia or even Serbia. They consider it independent. The very fact that Albanians have garnered such a backing from such strong countries should be troubling to anyone in the Serbian government but as usual the spin doctors in Belgrade are able to call anything a victory.
3. EU accession, UN or NATO are very very long term. No Albanian is under any illusion that it would be otherwise. Again you're claiming as victory something which really is or was never up to Serbia.
4. We never were under any illusion that Serbia would totally isolated from those that back us. That would be an unrealistic foreign policy and we are aware of that. Such zero sum policy would be damaging to anyone one in the region as it would result in a Serbia festering of hate and extremism. I am not so sure about the EU accession not being related to Kosova. However realistically speaking and looking at it historically also, after independence movements usually countries are not forced or acquiesced to recognize the country that sprung out from them. It is rather left to them to decide through time to recognize or not. Again we are not under any illusion that say the US or the EU would force Serbia to recognize us. Things simply don't work that way.
5.Spain, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Cyprus. All I have to say about these countries is that they have behaved the same way as Serbia has in the past and/or have sizeable compact minorities, and/or have been traditional allies of Serbia. Hence they are either afraid or traditionally loyal.
6. It was never an open and shut case. Where have you been from 1999 to 2008. An open and shut case is not allowed to last 9 years.
7. Finally the more I read your post the more I realize that you Serbs are surprised. Maybe you are taking a page from our very own book. That is that even if the biggest powers tell you that Kosova and you are under Serbia (well in your case under Albanians) that doesn't mean its always going to be like that. You are just now realizing this and I believe it is because of this that you are so surprised with yourselves.

"I agree, and that is why every time another recognition comes your way I keep asking whether it’s going to change the internal dynamics of Kosovo. The minute Thaci can cross the Ibar and exert his own authority in the middle of KM will be the minute I yield to your challenge. Until that time, Pristina is deluding itself it's anything close to resembling a "functioning state", let alone a "multiethnic society."

-- Way to early to tell that. If that is going to happen it will take decades not a couple of years and I'll be the first one to tell you that it will be in some form of Federalism if multi-ethnicity is to work. It won't be Bosnia style as that has shown not to work but some formula that would allow the Serbian areas to be in control of their lives. Maybe I am not being realistic but there is a chance that Kosova will be EU's first hybrid territory. (Insert your own interpretation in hybrid whether it is independent, autonomous or protectorate its up to you). Also Serbia's EU accession will be conditioned by giving up any claim or vestiges of sovereignty over to EU and the possibility of having any voting rights in the EU on issues regarding Kosova. Completley my own speculations.
Recognitions while they have no effect when taken one by one eventually if numbers continue to grow will have impact as the more support the better it is. That is why Vuk is so afraid of them and flew so fast to the Islamic League when recognition of Kosova was up for discussion. This Jerusalem comment from Vuk, rest assured it will become very handy next time the League of Islamic Nation gathers. Rest assuered that it will be mentioned.

"Really? Then why is it that every time we come here we hear some EU official state the critical need for Belgrade to be a part of the EU in order to bring stability to the Balkans? If Serbia were as irrelevant as you suggest, it really wouldn’t matter what they say, right? Obviously Serbia is the keystone. You DO know that Milošević and his politics are long dead, right?"

-- Are you even asking that? The answer is simple. In 1990's Serbia was the main aggressor and warmonger country in the Balkans. It has to be kept in check. Its a game of carrots and sticks.


"I’ll agree with you that pouting their way out of conferences and summits every time a K Albanian shows up is the wrong way to go, but at the very least it furthers the need of international brokers to find some way forward in the name of cooperation and consensus. That they need to continue to use EULEX or even UNMIK simply perpetuates the need to keep international officials in the role of executive authority. No Serb official will ever meet Thaci & Co. as equals. As for the embassy thing, I was in Belgrade when it happened. Much ado about nothing. CNN made it look like all of Belgrade was ablaze in anti-American sentiment. I’d be more concerned with growing resentment among the Albanian community towards EULEX in the near future. Washington and Belgrade seem to have gotten past that. And besides, setting fire to an embassy pales in comparison to setting fire to churches and homes, and desecrating graveyards after the ceasing of hostilities, particularly when it comes from a group of people that purport to be far more “European” than the Serbs."

-- I'll let you know a little secret. The US, the West or for that most of the world doesn't really care if a mosque or church is burned in the Balkans; but boy they really do care if they see their embassies burned and their flags burned. Let me remind you that the Tanks of Serbia destroyed hundreds of Mosques and plenty of Catholic churches in Croatia also. Let me also remind you that homes were burned by the Serbian state while people were still inside. As for graveyards there are still massive graves in Batjanica inside Serbia proper.
As for Serbia not meeting as equals those elected by the people of Kosova; I've said it a lot of times that we Albanians are ok with that. If the Serbs want to leave conferences that is more than ok with us. If they do not want to meet with us, that is ok with us. We have moved on; we have no particular need to sit on a table with Serb officials. Leaving conferences doesn't highlight need of brokers, it highlights Serbia's irresponsible behavior. It show's that Serbia behaves as a bitter woman that had a fight with another woman hence it leaves every single party the other woman is invited to.

“In the end the Balkans has always been the arena of politics, policies, games, and wars which have always been proxy politics, policies, games, and wars. Serbia will take some time to get used to the fact that the Albanian factor in the Balkans is no longer isolated and that just like Serbia they can too form allies so those proxy policies, politics, wars etc are no longer so obviously one sided, where the Serbs have all the support and we have none.”

"I agree with you 100% on this, but you seem to overlook the fact that proxy politics change like the wind. One minute Serbia is the darling of the West, as it was in the early 20th century. The next minute it’s the pariah. Don’t think for a minute the United States has any strategic interest in Albanians beyond what they provide us. And don’t think that Serbia remains the pariah state of the 1990s. I’m not trying to over-romanticize like some more zealous Serb posters here, but Jeremić represents that element of Serbian politics that realizes the best way to move forward is to cooperate with the West, especially those powers that are seemingly bent on isolating them. Albanians do not, nor have they ever, held a monopoly on victimization. It suited the interests of my country to support the Albanians in the 1990s when Milošević was making grand overtones to Russia. Now that Serbia has asserted itself first and foremost as a European state and a key player for peace in the region, the ongoing belligerence of Albanian nationalism, veiled I might add within a flimsy shell of victimization and selective memory no more wretched than anyone else in the Balkans, may actually prove to backfire on them. The more willing Belgrade is willing to compromise and the more resilient Pristina remains in trying to claim authority in Kosovo it never had, those proxy politics you correctly mentioned may once again reverse."

--I agree on most of what you say but somehow I believe and, I may be completely wrong, the Serbs completely disregard and/or overlook the fact that just like them Albanians have the ability to make allies. Frankly this complete disregard works on our advantage. Also it would behoove you to read what you state and apply that to Serbia. Don't think that somehow the US and the EU have any strategic interest Serbians. I don't know but it seems the Serbs or the average Serb has this idea that they are the ones that are worth to deal with and that the rest of the world does not see Albanians as worthy to deal with and cooperate. Like you said proxy politics change with the wind and it seems to me the Serbs have yet to realize that the wind has changed and whether you want it to believe or not superpowers and big important countries are willing to deal with us more than they are willing to deal with Serbia.
Mike so far at least from what I have read Serbia has not offered to make any compromise. As I've written in previous post Serbia's constitution does not allow for compromise. On the contrary it binds the Serbians state to a resilient attitude. There are people who can see through this and certainly Jerusalem comments from a Serb official do not spell compromise. I believe that is backfiring. I have in mind the latest EULEX declarations.

Kosov@ is our land. If we go to historical claims, I think Serbia will end up losing quite a bit. Vojvodina is another part that doesn't belong to you, so I think you should be happy you didn't lose more considering you lost the war.

Let me spell it one more time. Kosova was Albanian is Albanian and will always be Albanian. Even at times when you ruled it remained Albanian.

We offered you to have Kosova as multicultural where you could feel home, but you don't want to accept it. Now you think that with 5% of population there you will be able to rule like in good old times..... Never!

I just hope for your sake you realize this!

“First let me make it clear once and for all for the Serb camp here. Kosova is something that not only we Albanians can never forget but something over which we have spilled blood over centuries and given our lives.” (johny)

-- Great! You have your collective memory for Kosovo. Serbs have theirs. Neither is more valid than the other. It’s just something both sides need to deal with and accept.

”For the last 2 centuries starting with Nacertanije (1844) Serbia's core foreign policy has been one of expansionism and creation of Greater Serbia.”

-- How is this different from numerous sources pointing to a Greater Albania which encompasses large parts of Serbia, Macedonia, Greece, and Montenegro? “Expansionism” continues even today with benign threats to extend control over Serbian enclaves that have clearly voiced their dissatisfaction with living under your rule. Great Serbia, Greater Albania, Greater Bulgaria, Greater Croatia – all have been part of the national policies of their respective states since the 19th century. Please don’t presume the Nacertanije is a unique characteristic of political culture in Southeast Europe.

”Name one specific issue that Serbia has actually won over Kosova and that Jeremic is to be credited for. Can you please leave this inflammatory language aside.”

-- I can name lots, though I’m sure you wouldn’t classify them as “victories”. Perhaps the greatest “victory” is keeping Kosovo’s status up in the air. With the might of some of the strongest democracies in the world theoretically behind you, Kosovo is in no better shape than it was in February 2008. Its status is being debated at the ICJ. It’s future for EU ascension is hopelessly blocked. The most powerful states in the world are neither forcing Serbia to acquiesce over Kosovo, nor are they making EU ascension conditional on recognition. EULEX openly cooperates with Belgrade while circumventing Pristina. Northern Kosovo remains all but a formal part of Serbia. Pristina occasionally gets the useless recognition to bolster its side, but you’re missing 7 key recognitions: Spain, Greece, Romania, Slovakia, Cyprus, Russia and China. You need the first 5 to get into the EU and the last 2 to get into the UN. This was supposed to be an open and shut case, and it obviously wasn’t.

“Virtual battles and virtual wars are real only in the minds of the myth-makers and the brainwashed.”

-- I agree, and that is why every time another recognition comes your way I keep asking whether it’s going to change the internal dynamics of Kosovo. The minute Thaci can cross the Ibar and exert his own authority in the middle of KM will be the minute I yield to your challenge. Until that time, Pristina is deluding itself it's anything close to resembling a "functioning state", let alone a "multiethnic society".

“It is obvious that there is a total lack of respect for Serbia within the region let alone from the West.”

-- Really? Then why is it that every time we come here we hear some EU official state the critical need for Belgrade to be a part of the EU in order to bring stability to the Balkans? If Serbia were as irrelevant as you suggest, it really wouldn’t matter what they say, right? Obviously Serbia is the keystone. You DO know that Milošević and his politics are long dead, right?

“Serbia keeps pulling out ambassadors, keeps writing demarches, keeps leaving forums and regional meeting, keeps being ignored by the West and EULEX and occasionally burns a western embassy or two.”

-- I’ll agree with you that pouting their way out of conferences and summits every time a K Albanian shows up is the wrong way to go, but at the very least it furthers the need of international brokers to find some way forward in the name of cooperation and consensus. That they need to continue to use EULEX or even UNMIK simply perpetuates the need to keep international officials in the role of executive authority. No Serb official will ever meet Thaci & Co. as equals. As for the embassy thing, I was in Belgrade when it happened. Much ado about nothing. CNN made it look like all of Belgrade was ablaze in anti-American sentiment. I’d be more concerned with growing resentment among the Albanian community towards EULEX in the near future. Washington and Belgrade seem to have gotten past that. And besides, setting fire to an embassy pales in comparison to setting fire to churches and homes, and desecrating graveyards after the ceasing of hostilities, particularly when it comes from a group of people that purport to be far more “European” than the Serbs.

“In the end the Balkans has always been the arena of politics, policies, games, and wars which have always been proxy politics, policies, games, and wars. Serbia will take some time to get used to the fact that the Albanian factor in the Balkans is no longer isolated and that just like Serbia they can too form allies so those proxy policies, politics, wars etc are no longer so obviously one sided, where the Serbs have all the support and we have none.”

-- I agree with you 100% on this, but you seem to overlook the fact that proxy politics change like the wind. One minute Serbia is the darling of the West, as it was in the early 20th century. The next minute it’s the pariah. Don’t think for a minute the United States has any strategic interest in Albanians beyond what they provide us. And don’t think that Serbia remains the pariah state of the 1990s. I’m not trying to over-romanticize like some more zealous Serb posters here, but Jeremić represents that element of Serbian politics that realizes the best way to move forward is to cooperate with the West, especially those powers that are seemingly bent on isolating them. Albanians do not, nor have they ever, held a monopoly on victimization. It suited the interests of my country to support the Albanians in the 1990s when Milošević was making grand overtones to Russia. Now that Serbia has asserted itself first and foremost as a European state and a key player for peace in the region, the ongoing belligerence of Albanian nationalism, veiled I might add within a flimsy shell of victimization and selective memory no more wretched than anyone else in the Balkans, may actually prove to backfire on them. The more willing Belgrade is willing to compromise and the more resilient Pristina remains in trying to claim authority in Kosovo it never had, those proxy politics you correctly mentioned may once again reverse.

Johny,

I congratulate you for your excellent posting. I truly enjoyed it!!

Isn't the New York Times part of that obscure cloud of "western media propaganda, hiding the truth about Srebrenica, Racak, out to demonize Serbs, etc etc etc".? And now they have a nice article about Jeremic. How does this fit with some of our friends here who talk about western media propaganda

johny

its a pleasure to read your high level thinking comments.

Kosov@ is our land. If we go to historical claims, I think Serbia will end up losing quite a bit. Vojvodina is another part that doesn't belong to you, so I think you should be happy you didn't lose more considering you lost the war.

Let me spell it one more time. Kosova was Albanian is Albanian and will always be Albanian. Even at times when you ruled it remained Albanian.

We offered you to have Kosova as multicultural where you could feel home, but you don't want to accept it. Now you think that with 5% of population there you will be able to rule like in good old times..... Never!

I just hope for your sake you realize this!
(alban, 18 January 2010 19:58)

kosovo was albanian?? Tell me when?? Tell me what albanian king build Gračanica or Visoki Dečani?? What albanian king is buried on the land of Kosovo?? Tell me any name of albanian ruler of Kosovo?? Maybe Branković dynasty was albanian (only time when Kosovo was independent state was when Kosovo was under realm of house Brankovići)??

You don't remember, that You albanians are minority in multiethnic Serbia?? So - You don't think about "multiethnicity" - but about nationalistic myths. Serbia is only real multiethnic state on the Balkan Peninsula.

johny,

I add my voice to those happy to see your comments. It’s nice to see someone on the Albanian side every so often attempt to *discuss* instead of shout empty nationalist slogans ad nauseum. There’s only a few things from your last post that I think need some form of clarification:

The “Jerusalem” reference to Kosovo: it is a rather normative explanation for why Serbia wants to retain Kosovo, and I’m glad it’s not used at all in official diplomatic statements. It’s more of a metaphor than anything else. Jeremić could have easily said it’s our “Mecca” as well, but the present metaphor is an old one. Might I also add its appropriately used in American media where readers will easily associate with such language. Remember he’s talking to a newspaper, not the United Nations. And in this overly Christianist pro-Israeli society of ours, it hits a strategic mark. It’s symbolism more than anything else.

Your seeming effort to associate Garasanin’s Nacertanije with the politics of Milošević: We need to be careful here for a number of reasons. First, it is highly dangerous to associate a document written in 1844 with politics that reflect situations in 1991. The Nacertanije is one of the most misunderstood elements of 19th century Serbian history and many contemporary historians have erroneously connected one with the other. That is not the case at all. Second, we have to remember Serbia in 1844 was still, technically, a part of the Ottoman Empire. Statements of such grandiose expansion resonated little outside a small handful of Western European-educated Serbian intellectuals. Third, the Nacertanije’s goal was that of liberating all South Slavs, not dominating them. I’m sure you know that back then it was common for all South Slavs to see themselves as one people united in language but separated by religion. That Serbia was going to be at the forefront of liberating the Balkans from Turkish and Austrian control was no different than the Risorgiomento of Italy. And while it was mentioned that Skadar/Shkodër was to be part of Serbia’s access to the sea, Garasanin was very careful to cooperate with the local Albanian officials there. Under no circumstances did the Nacertanije ever advocate ethnic cleansing. I’m not sure if you’ve ever read the actual text, but a part of states, and I quote, “If Serbia gives her neighbors the impression, by bad and unfortunate example, that she thinks only of herself and does not care to concern herself with the advancement and problems of others, but would rather be indifferent to them, they would certainly follow the example set by Serbia and not obey her, thus replacing harmony and unity by distrust and envy.” In short, a feeling of historic destiny, not chauvinism, was the driving force behind early visions of an enlarged Serbian state. Whatever what proposed under Milošević (and here one really has to argue it was more the tool of Šešelj’s neo-fascists than Slobo) was one of pure ethnocentrism, and a concerted defeat and demobilization of opposition.

Therefore, when we talk of a “Greater Serbia”, we really have to differentiate between mid to late 19th century inclusive conceptions and late 20th century exclusionary variants. A policy of ethnic cleansing was hardly a vocation of traditional Serbian politics. “Greater Serbia” is just as much a tool of other nations as you claim “Greater Albania” is. When you write of sending armies into neighboring countries, I ask you when did Serbia ever “invade” Albania? And while no conventional Albanian army ever “invaded” Serbia, enough historical evidence exists to suggest a concerted effort was already in the works as early as 1981 to break Kosovo off from Yugoslavia and join it with Albania – a form of benign invasion of settlers from Albania proper crossing the border to escape the draconian government of Hoxha. Albanians will always look to Serbian aggression against them as a reason for secession, but we keep forgetting the motive for secession existed long before Milošević came to power.

As for the rest (status, future), it’s your interpretation against mine. Our opinions intersect on some and diverge on others. I think we both agree that there needs to be some give and take and that both sides should be under no illusions a final settlement is going to be either easy to achieve, or fair to agree with. But we also need to bear in mind that the ultimate goal of those Great Powers that love to utilize proxies in SE Europe is for stability. And if stability means having to snip Kosovo’s “sovereignty” here and there, as they've already done with Serbia, and are currently doing with Bosnia, they’ll do it. If Kosovo’s independence was coterminous with stability, we would have seen a far better plan of action and a far more concerted attempt at getting Belgrade to imply. You say Belgrade has been unwilling to compromise, yet I have not heard one gesture by Pristina in attempting to mollify the situation. Rather, I continue to read about Thaci beating the drums of expansion (yes, “expansion”) into areas in Kosovo formally outside of his control and taking the mantle of Milošević in attempting to stamp out what he regards as illegal “parallel” institutions, regardless of what the people think or want. I have yet to see one single offer from Pristina to the Kosovo Serbs that can trump what they can get from Belgrade. In the end you may very well be right about some form of co-federalization of Kosovo, and I suspect this is going to have to at least be considered prior to Serbia’s EU entry. But at least in my opinion I think the Bosnia scenario is looking increasingly likely. Remember, the West loves things that appear to work. Not actually work. If the way to get Belgrade to formally write off the Albanian parts of Kosovo is to allow them full retention of the Serbian parts, even if it means transforming KM into a veritable Banja Luka, I really wouldn’t put it past Brussels.

Again, the comments are much appreciated.

It is wrong to claim that Kosovo is Serbia's Jerusalem. Albanians are actually the Jews of Europe. They were almost exterminated from their lands but because they never gave up they managed to keep their lands.

Wow Johny what a statement , boy you know politics , to me that was eyeopening even though i study politics as hobby. Can somebody print what johny said and sent it to Vuk. Now I am albanian , and hate to say it but i like his work , his lobying to ghana, egypt , and other countries. But I see him as hypocrite. After reading nyt artikle about him. in my mind something poped op, what a hypocrtie is he. would his grandad, muslim grandad be proud of him. he should cease politics forever. And yeah about ghana and egypt who cares about them not recognizing kosovo. Egypt is the biggest muslim backstabing country of muslims from all arabs. Mubarak is the same thing like Sadam. And yeah every el fitr aid , Bajram he goes to pray in a mosque and is televised. Same like Jeremic

During and after the Balkan wars this special relation was extended and deepened especially in some declarations and publications of the Serbian Orthodox Church. The expression:”Kosovo is our Jerusalem” found its way.

and each time this expression reappears,it means that serbs are preparing the public opinion for an other bloody action,and to excuse it,they want to convince you that they have a divine right to do so!
miloshevic too did began his bloody carrier with this formula!

For us Bosnians Banja Luka, Prijedor, Zvornik, and Srebrenica are our Jerusalems simple as that. The Serbian politicians should tell Dodik that fact and they should respect our country and its people and should stop their hypocritical backing for Dodik and his destructive policies.

It appears to me that he was more or less correct about the numbers; probably not so regarding the timing. Today, 109 countries have implicitely (i.e. not through a formal statement) or explicitly (i.e. through a formal statement) recognized Kosovo. There is a minority that do not recognize it (i.e. have made formal statements to that effect). There are others which position is unknown.
(Mark3, 17 January 2010 20:24)
Mr Thaci at February expected that until end of year 2008 Kosovo will be recognized by 100 or more countries. These dreams were in fact crushed. Until today - pseudoindependent Kosovo was recognized only by 65 of 192 countries (1/3). Some of them recognized them after US/EU pressure. So - were any "massive and strong" recognition. And will be not.

And of course I would like Brittney Spears to be my girlfriend, but it won't happen!

The other problem with this line of thinking is: historical arguments no longer hold validity in contemporary politics. It is a poor justification in the case of Jerusalem as well. With both the Palestinians and the Kosovars, what has mattered more is 1)majorities/minorities and 2) respect for human rights. Historical arguments will never persuade an ahistorical United States, and they fall on deaf ears in a Europe that has great reason to fear claims to territory based on history (Trianon, anyone?)

The other problem with this line of thinking is: historical arguments no longer hold validity in contemporary politics. It is a poor justification in the case of Jerusalem as well. With both the Palestinians and the Kosovars, what has mattered more is 1)majorities/minorities and 2) respect for human rights. Historical arguments will never persuade an ahistorical United States, and they fall on deaf ears in a Europe that has great reason to fear claims to territory based on history (Trianon, anyone?)
(d.z., 18 January 2010 21:24)

While as always comments from the Serb camp blame the west, the first part of the comment has some validity to it. I'll explain below.

Serbs is just one of the many different peoples that have occupied or influenced Kosova. The others being Albanians, Turks, and Romans. In this sense Serbia's attachment at least historically, to Kosova is in no way anymore special than the others, such as Albanians, Turks or Romans. Romans gave the region Christianity and ruled it around a thousand years. The Turks ruled for 500 years. The Albanians have been there for centuries, the Serbs have been there for centuries. No historical argument as far as who WAS where can be made. It is all about who IS where and how we deal with it.

Thus this becomes a management issue. Who can manage the situation better and how can this situation be managed better? Obviously I'm biased but by looking to this as a management problem it becomes obvious that indepndence is the best and most manageable scenario. The reason why I say that is simple. It is easier for the west and the rest of the world to manage around 200 thousand unhappy Serbs among 2million Albanians who are loyal to the West than manage 2 million unhappy Albanians under Serbia who not only is not loyal to the West but has shown to be loyal to Russia; West's adversary politically and at many times militarily. Also in terms of monetary costs, and people's costs it is far more less costly to build bases and maintain an armed presence in an independent Kosova than wage war anytime the likes of Milosevic, Kostunica, or Sesejl take power. It is less costly to offer EU membership to Serbia than to deal with a Serbia that resembles more to Iran then to Cyprus (like the current situation).