lowe
pre 14 godina
"-- If that was your point then I guess you don't lack the intelligence to understand that when somebody says never it doesn't mean that it will ALWAYS be like that. My point is that in Russia, when Finland as an autonomous province declared its independence, there were plenty of them that were swearing to never recognize. I'm going to let you in on something that you should have been aware when we started this debate. When Albania declared its independence there was a state that was stating it would never recognize it because Albania was being build on their old lands. Can you take a wild guess who that state is? I'll help you. It was Serbia that when Albania declared its independence ( while being an autonomous province) Serbia was swearing it would never recognize it. "
Firstly, neither of us can predict whether Serbia will recognize Kosovo in the future. But the point remains that as long as she does not recognize Kosovo, the latter's UDI remains illegal and Kosovo will remain outside the UN. Finland had no problems with UN entry because by the time she applied, the Russians have already recognized her independence.
Secondly, why bring Albania into the discussion? Serbia never had sovereignty over Albania and so whether she decided to recognize Albania or not at that time is irrelevant. However Serbia has sovereignty over Kosovo and this is what makes Kosovo's UDI different from Tirana's independence. You are mixing up apples and oranges!
"--Ok as I've stated before nobody is holding their breaths. As I've pointed out many times before we are more than OK with this. Put any label you want to this situation. We are more than OK with it. The Serb camp isn't.
Second I didn't know you were a psychic who is able to foresee what will happen in the future and able to tell who will become independent and who will not. Also Belgrade is not Russia or China. I am assuming that you don't lack the intelligence to see that depending on how things turn out certain vetoes are not guaranteed for eternity. We had 5 vetoes against us becoming independent when the UN started and now is down to two. You never know what the future holds. It would be extremely naive for us or for the Serb camp for that matter to expect us to drop our will for independence at a moment when we have most of the world's strongest countries with us. Especially considering that we didn't drop our will when we had no support whatsoever.
You are also disregarding the fact that it took decades and decades long wars for these countries to become independent after declaring independence. Its been not even 2 years since we did. Again nobody knows what the future holds.
You are also conveniently forgetting that if autonomy is be valid it will be valid only AFTER Prishtina agrees. You can sign all the paperwork you need with anyone you want. If those 2 million Albanians there do not agree-- there is no autonomy. A state is a social contract between the people and if the people say there is no contract then there is no state. If the Albanians do not agree, Belgrade would wish to have a Taiwan situation. In fact that's what it wants now but it can't have."
After this tirade of yours, the bottom line still remains unchanged: The Russians and Chinese will not allow Kosovo's UN entry because, as they already made clear so many times, this goes against the principle of state sovereignty. So unless and until Kosovo somehow manages to reach an agreement with Belgrade, enjoy your exile outside the UN!
Besides, prior to your UDI, autonomy was what Kosovo had. And unless there is mutual agreement between Belgrade and Pristina change that, the status quo remains legally speaking!
Finally don't kid yourself about Kosovo being anything like Taiwan other than your common exile from UN. Taiwan is rich and developed, whereas Kosovo is in reality a Western colony dependent on your US and EU masters for handouts.
"-- I also challenged you to put you money where your mouth is. Not only you failed miserably but you lack the courage to even talk about the issue. Remember you are the one that claims that one set of people has the right to rule over another set of people even when they've clearly shown to want to rule themselves. Not only that but you claim that such a thing is written in some international law which I have yet to see.
Likewise if you are are to apply your principle that one set of people is entitled under international law to rule over another set of people you would have IMMEDIATELY AND UNCONDITIONALLY supported K-Serbs being under Albanian rule in Kosova ( Kosova even as province within Jugoslavia has had well-defined borders) instead you are now conveniently tampering this support with more conditions. Remember you were the one that espoused this principle right from the start, not me.
Also you are trying to put a spin on issues by putting things I simply do not say. Being anti-religious I purposely avoid using certain words such as sanctity or holly."
Kosovo may have well defined borders under Yugoslavia but the bottom line is still that it is a province of Serbia! This fact is undeniable no matter how much you try to evade it!
Regarding your claim that I had some principle about one people ruling another, I certainly do not subscribe to your interpretation. In any case, all this while I was referring to the principle of state sovereignty and state borders -- the sovereignty and borders of Serbia must be respected. Kosovo itself is now demanding respect for its own borders and sovereignty and yet it has no qualms about doing an UDI to violate Serbia's borders and sovereignty! That's double standards if you ask me!
I cannot care less about your religious affiliation. As far as I know, "sanctity" is a normal English word which does not necessarily have religious connotations. You should check the dictionary before making such desperate, wild accusations!
"--You don't have to buy anything because nobody is trying to sell you anything. This is a conversation. Read it again. In the rush to respond to me you haven't understood what I wrote."
Oh, I understand where you are going alright -- the falsities, half-truths and convenient selective interpretations of 1244 and Rambouillet etc -- of course you should not expense me or anyone else to buy these! (By the way, the word "buy" here is just the conversational English style of saying that something is accepted.)
"-- Yet again a double standard from you. As I've stated earlier if you had been really sincere about the principle of secession you'd support K-Serbs remaining within Kosova UNTIL ALBANIANS AGREE. You yourself stated that the other side has to CONSENT. Just for the record, recognitions for us have come from all corners of the world and not only from the West."
At present the majority of the nations of the world have not recognized your UDI! Don't try to pull another fast one on me because it ain't gonna work!
The question about "Kosova" agreeing (or disagreeing) with K-Serbs' secession attempts is irrelevant in the light of Kosovo being legally a part of Serbia. "Kosova" therefore in the first place has no right to make that kind of demands about the K-Serbs as it is itself legally a part of Serbia and which it illegally breached through its UDI. Kosovo did wrong by breaking away for Serbia and therefore cannot use this illegality to impose any non-secession demands on the K-Serbs!
"As for glasses, I don't need them and frankly you don't too. What you really need however is a mega dose of honesty!"
--While I'll consider your advice, I recommend you listen to your own advices. You have a serious problem in applying what you say to others towards your own self. All you do is point fingers and there is a total lack of self-reflection.
(johny, 21 January 2010 01:00)"
I only point fingers at posts such as yours which are riddled with inaccuracies, half-truths and convenient selective interpretations of documents and situations!
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