Russian official on Serbia and NATO

“I believe that such decision should not be made by individuals, even if they are ministers, but that the people should be asked, and ideally, a referendum should be held,” the Russian official concluded.
--
Absolutely. Our constitution defines us as militarily neutral and the only way to change that is through a referrendum.

Serbians in that case will overwhelmingly reject NATO membership. I can see how membership could be proposed during negotiations of Serbian troops returning to Kosovo, but they will have to think of other methods.

Perhaps Serbia will have close ties to NATO, while our partnership for peace will allow the return of Serbian troops but I really cannot envisage membership. Russia and China are our great friends and membership of NATO is not consistent with that friendship.

"WHy did the Serbs immigrate from that side to beggin with I wonder?"
troika melb

If we didn't Kosovo wouldn't have been disscovered until later, in the 19th century when the albanians move up from Albania and Turkey. Look at the beautiful churches and monasteries the ancient Serbian people of Kosovo has provided for the world to see.

Joining Nato or not! Let's see! Nato has killed thousands of Serbs and it supports the breakup of Serbia. Russia has helped us throughout history and supports us when it comes to Kosovo. Hmmm.... Now that's a tough choice!

“I am deeply convinced that the Serbian defense minister, who said that it is good for Serbia to become a member of the North Atlantic Alliance, was only stating his personal opinion,” Kosachev said. '

That is a slap in the face to SuNATOvac, and he deserves it. I am glad that Russia is defending Serbia's interests, even if our own defence minister is not.

NATO or no NATO, Serbian troops will never return to Kosova.
(Kosova-USA, 13 January 2010 12:57)
--
I keep hearing from ethnic Albanians, never say never.

I'm pretty sure Serbian troops will return and that is currently under negotiation but NATO membership is not a viable option.

Ged,
do you mean Serbia should forgive and forget like it did after the Ottomans, World War I and II. For whatever do you mean?

On the contrary Ged, Serbia should remember and abstain!

No NATO membership for Serbia or Bosnia, unless of course the people in referendums shows that they want to join that organisation.

a NO in a referendum must be accepted by all parties, not like in the case of Irish referendum on Lisbon treaty to vote again and again until the "desired" result from the west is gotten.

Many countries are doing just fine without NATO, Sweden, Austria, Finland, Ireland are not isolated in any ways due to their military neutrality. Neither would Serbia or Bosnia be.

@Ged

Anglo Saxons and Germans NEVER were and will be our friends!
Russians and Serbs are bound by the same pravoslavic blood,there is no stronger bond in the world than that.
Also Serbia would loose Russian support on Kosovo.
If you read the statements of our politicians they say basically say:no thanks,but no.
Once for a while even this government does something good by saying no!

serbia dont need NATO why should serbia help them fight their wars that they caused america are the trouble makers and they are losing superpower status in big ways and pretty much gone and any way the best turn for serbia is towards RUSSIA,CHINA,INDIA
the real superpowers economy and militarily. america wants everyone else to die in their wars that they caused say no to NATO!!!

Sorry Zoran but you are wrong!
Time for Serbs to think in new ways and make new friends. Also time for Serbs to learn (as well as others in the Balkans) to forgive and forget and move on.

What is this statement all about? OF COURSE Serbia should decide it. Who else? Serbia is a sovereign nation, and not a Russian puppet state.

It could be the Serbian government, or maybe there should be a referendum.

Or did this guy only mean that Serbia got a green light from Russia, and they won't interfere?

Perhaps Serbia will have close ties to NATO, while our partnership for peace will allow the return of Serbian troops but I really cannot envisage membership. Russia and China are our great friends and membership of NATO is not consistent with that friendship.
(Zoran, 13 January 2010 11:39)

NATO or no NATO, Serbian troops will never return to Kosova.

yeah, forget that yours is stolen or killed or both, move on with the very same western scum ...

i hope mother russia has more than words to guarantee us liberty and protection from this regime ...

That is a slap in the face to SuNATOvac, and he deserves it. I am glad that Russia is defending Serbia's interests, even if our own defence minister is not.
(Dragan, 13 January 2010 15:52)

So true, but the slap should've come from Tadic. It's interesting that Russia is there to protect Serbs from themselves. When is Serbia going to wake up that Tadic & Co. are not their friends?

Also, Amer, whiechever is which both Russia and China are Serbia's friends.

Russia and China are our great friends and membership of NATO is not consistent with that friendship.
(Zoran

If only all Serbs thought the same way, the balkans would have been so much better.
WHy did the Serbs immigrate from that side to beggin with I wonder?

This debate as many on this forum is pointless...nobody in NATO is urging Serbia to join and Eu bid is no-linked to the defence alliance, but..
History tells that being a NATO member helps and if all other neighbouring countries will join the club how will Serbia be isolated and alone ?.. So you can opt for NO but it will be difficoult to remain out..

(Amer, 13 January 2010 18:29)

I can answer you that question. The latest is that Russia and NATO are close to an agreement which means Russia will have veto powers in this new organization. The US was holding out but its opposition is starting to crack within the US administration considering that they need the Russians for the Afghanistan campaign and now want to have a go in Yemen.
Also, the Chinese do not have a colonial mind set of the US. They prefer to buy what they want and leave internal politics to the locals which is much easier and cheaper – that’s why they love them in Africa, unlike the US that thinks it has a God given right to meddle into everything.
Me thinks you read too much into this or should I say you hope too much!

"Or did this guy only mean that Serbia got a green light from Russia, and they won't interfere?
(Top, 13 January 2010 15:37) "

Yeah, this is strange - in the past Russia has said it had no problems with Serbia joining the EU, but wouldn't like to see it in NATO.

Is Russia finally beginning to see that its real problems will come from the East and the South, not from Nato? (Russian Min of Defense site, discussion of coming military challenges : http://www.mil.ru/848/1045/1272/sv/19244)/index.shtml?id=67201 - if they're discussing Chinese military strategy in public, in a theoretical kind of way, what are they talking about behind closed doors?) As a Russian blogger said recently, the collaboration of Russia and China resembles the collaboration between a rabbit and a python. And he didn't seem to think that Russia was the python. This will put Serbia in an interesting position, to say the least.

History tells that being a NATO member helps and if all other neighbouring countries will join the club how will Serbia be isolated and alone ?.. So you can opt for NO but it will be difficoult to remain out..
(Luigi, 13 January 2010 14:29)

And how is Serbia going to be disadvantaged if not in NATO?
Are you suggesting that a NATO country will attack Serbia paving a way for the rest to join just because Serbia is not in the club?

I cannot see any disadvantages but would love to hear what the advantages are. Please state them.

(Amer, 13 January 2010 18:29)

That is Western wishful thinking.
Russia and China are ALLIES in a military alliance (SCO)and are together consolidating Asias power(economically,politically and militarily) with the one goal: to end Western world domination.
And this goal is in the process of being achieved.
The leaders of both countries know the gigantic benefits that could be a result of cooperation.
Of course the AngloSaxons would like to see these two mighty American foes killing off each other,but newsflash for you:

It is not going to happen!

PS And don`t forget,Chinese Taiwan is currently occupied by Americans and NOT the Russians.

Joining Nato or not! Let's see! Nato has killed thousands of Serbs and it supports the breakup of Serbia. Russia has helped us throughout history and supports us when it comes to Kosovo. Hmmm.... Now that's a tough choice!
(MikeC, 13 January 2010 12:12)

Mike, It obviously is for the current government. The defence minister is not going to say "his opinion" while representing the government without Tadic's approval.
I don't see Tadic correcting him.

That is Western wishful thinking.
Russia and China are ALLIES...

(CG, 13 January 2010 21:29)'

As a matter of fact, I was referring to a Russian opinion column http://grani.ru/opinion/piontkovsky/m.173037.html

It's hardly the first time I've come across such ideas, but I only bookmarked this one because it seemed to be such a clear expression of the idea.

'The latest is that Russia and NATO are close to an agreement which means Russia will have veto powers in this new organization. The US was holding out but its opposition is starting to crack within the US administration considering that they need the Russians for the Afghanistan campaign and now want to have a go in Yemen.

(sj, 13 January 2010 23:44) '

Putin asked Clinton on his first trip to the White House when Russia could hope to join Nato, and there was a long, uncomfortable pause. I hadn't heard - but then, I don't have your sources - that Russia was still trying to get in.

The only reason NATO was created was to protect europe from Russia.And there is no way that Nato will allow Russia to have any say in its affairs.ever

'Russia wanted a new alliance to replace NATO but the real issue is that the US does not wish to allow veto power to Russia in any organization, but one way or another this will happen because they are relying more and more on Russia for assistance. '

There are other routes, more expensive, to be sure, but not expensive enough to allow Russia veto power over Nato decisions.

Poland and the US have just recently ensured that the Baltic states will be explicitly covered by Article 5 - hardly something that indicates the U.S. is paying greater deference to Russia's interests.

(Amer, 14 January 2010 01:20)

Why do you think that NATO’s secretary general went to Moscow recently? He was not there to see the Kremlin museum. Have a good look at Afghanistan and see how the NATO allies get their food and equipment to their troops – they can’t go through Pakistan or Iran so the only path left is through Russia and Russian controlled countries surrounding Afghanistan.
Your statement about Clinton and Putin is true, but this was several years ago and the situation has changed dramatically. Russia wanted a new alliance to replace NATO but the real issue is that the US does not wish to allow veto power to Russia in any organization, but one way or another this will happen because they are relying more and more on Russia for assistance.
Clinton’s and George Bush (senior) greatest mistake was to treat Russia like a vanquished nation. Had they behaved as equals even though the Russians would have known who was “boss” then things would be very different today! The Russians would have been grateful to the US, but it’s a mistake that the US cannot rectify and even some within the current US administration admit this error.

Perhaps Serbia will have close ties to NATO, while our partnership for peace will allow the return of Serbian troops but I really cannot envisage membership. Russia and China are our great friends and membership of NATO is not consistent with that friendship.
(Zoran, 13 January 2010 11:39)

NATO or no NATO, Serbian troops will never return to Kosova.

Sorry Zoran but you are wrong!
Time for Serbs to think in new ways and make new friends. Also time for Serbs to learn (as well as others in the Balkans) to forgive and forget and move on.

This debate as many on this forum is pointless...nobody in NATO is urging Serbia to join and Eu bid is no-linked to the defence alliance, but..
History tells that being a NATO member helps and if all other neighbouring countries will join the club how will Serbia be isolated and alone ?.. So you can opt for NO but it will be difficoult to remain out..

Russia and China are our great friends and membership of NATO is not consistent with that friendship.
(Zoran

If only all Serbs thought the same way, the balkans would have been so much better.
WHy did the Serbs immigrate from that side to beggin with I wonder?

"Or did this guy only mean that Serbia got a green light from Russia, and they won't interfere?
(Top, 13 January 2010 15:37) "

Yeah, this is strange - in the past Russia has said it had no problems with Serbia joining the EU, but wouldn't like to see it in NATO.

Is Russia finally beginning to see that its real problems will come from the East and the South, not from Nato? (Russian Min of Defense site, discussion of coming military challenges : http://www.mil.ru/848/1045/1272/sv/19244)/index.shtml?id=67201 - if they're discussing Chinese military strategy in public, in a theoretical kind of way, what are they talking about behind closed doors?) As a Russian blogger said recently, the collaboration of Russia and China resembles the collaboration between a rabbit and a python. And he didn't seem to think that Russia was the python. This will put Serbia in an interesting position, to say the least.

yeah, forget that yours is stolen or killed or both, move on with the very same western scum ...

i hope mother russia has more than words to guarantee us liberty and protection from this regime ...

@Ged

Anglo Saxons and Germans NEVER were and will be our friends!
Russians and Serbs are bound by the same pravoslavic blood,there is no stronger bond in the world than that.
Also Serbia would loose Russian support on Kosovo.
If you read the statements of our politicians they say basically say:no thanks,but no.
Once for a while even this government does something good by saying no!

What is this statement all about? OF COURSE Serbia should decide it. Who else? Serbia is a sovereign nation, and not a Russian puppet state.

It could be the Serbian government, or maybe there should be a referendum.

Or did this guy only mean that Serbia got a green light from Russia, and they won't interfere?

“I am deeply convinced that the Serbian defense minister, who said that it is good for Serbia to become a member of the North Atlantic Alliance, was only stating his personal opinion,” Kosachev said. '

That is a slap in the face to SuNATOvac, and he deserves it. I am glad that Russia is defending Serbia's interests, even if our own defence minister is not.

That is a slap in the face to SuNATOvac, and he deserves it. I am glad that Russia is defending Serbia's interests, even if our own defence minister is not.
(Dragan, 13 January 2010 15:52)

So true, but the slap should've come from Tadic. It's interesting that Russia is there to protect Serbs from themselves. When is Serbia going to wake up that Tadic & Co. are not their friends?

Also, Amer, whiechever is which both Russia and China are Serbia's friends.

“I believe that such decision should not be made by individuals, even if they are ministers, but that the people should be asked, and ideally, a referendum should be held,” the Russian official concluded.
--
Absolutely. Our constitution defines us as militarily neutral and the only way to change that is through a referrendum.

Serbians in that case will overwhelmingly reject NATO membership. I can see how membership could be proposed during negotiations of Serbian troops returning to Kosovo, but they will have to think of other methods.

Perhaps Serbia will have close ties to NATO, while our partnership for peace will allow the return of Serbian troops but I really cannot envisage membership. Russia and China are our great friends and membership of NATO is not consistent with that friendship.

Joining Nato or not! Let's see! Nato has killed thousands of Serbs and it supports the breakup of Serbia. Russia has helped us throughout history and supports us when it comes to Kosovo. Hmmm.... Now that's a tough choice!

The only reason NATO was created was to protect europe from Russia.And there is no way that Nato will allow Russia to have any say in its affairs.ever

"WHy did the Serbs immigrate from that side to beggin with I wonder?"
troika melb

If we didn't Kosovo wouldn't have been disscovered until later, in the 19th century when the albanians move up from Albania and Turkey. Look at the beautiful churches and monasteries the ancient Serbian people of Kosovo has provided for the world to see.

Joining Nato or not! Let's see! Nato has killed thousands of Serbs and it supports the breakup of Serbia. Russia has helped us throughout history and supports us when it comes to Kosovo. Hmmm.... Now that's a tough choice!
(MikeC, 13 January 2010 12:12)

Mike, It obviously is for the current government. The defence minister is not going to say "his opinion" while representing the government without Tadic's approval.
I don't see Tadic correcting him.

That is Western wishful thinking.
Russia and China are ALLIES...

(CG, 13 January 2010 21:29)'

As a matter of fact, I was referring to a Russian opinion column http://grani.ru/opinion/piontkovsky/m.173037.html

It's hardly the first time I've come across such ideas, but I only bookmarked this one because it seemed to be such a clear expression of the idea.

NATO or no NATO, Serbian troops will never return to Kosova.
(Kosova-USA, 13 January 2010 12:57)
--
I keep hearing from ethnic Albanians, never say never.

I'm pretty sure Serbian troops will return and that is currently under negotiation but NATO membership is not a viable option.

Ged,
do you mean Serbia should forgive and forget like it did after the Ottomans, World War I and II. For whatever do you mean?

On the contrary Ged, Serbia should remember and abstain!

(Amer, 13 January 2010 18:29)

That is Western wishful thinking.
Russia and China are ALLIES in a military alliance (SCO)and are together consolidating Asias power(economically,politically and militarily) with the one goal: to end Western world domination.
And this goal is in the process of being achieved.
The leaders of both countries know the gigantic benefits that could be a result of cooperation.
Of course the AngloSaxons would like to see these two mighty American foes killing off each other,but newsflash for you:

It is not going to happen!

PS And don`t forget,Chinese Taiwan is currently occupied by Americans and NOT the Russians.

'The latest is that Russia and NATO are close to an agreement which means Russia will have veto powers in this new organization. The US was holding out but its opposition is starting to crack within the US administration considering that they need the Russians for the Afghanistan campaign and now want to have a go in Yemen.

(sj, 13 January 2010 23:44) '

Putin asked Clinton on his first trip to the White House when Russia could hope to join Nato, and there was a long, uncomfortable pause. I hadn't heard - but then, I don't have your sources - that Russia was still trying to get in.

No NATO membership for Serbia or Bosnia, unless of course the people in referendums shows that they want to join that organisation.

a NO in a referendum must be accepted by all parties, not like in the case of Irish referendum on Lisbon treaty to vote again and again until the "desired" result from the west is gotten.

Many countries are doing just fine without NATO, Sweden, Austria, Finland, Ireland are not isolated in any ways due to their military neutrality. Neither would Serbia or Bosnia be.

serbia dont need NATO why should serbia help them fight their wars that they caused america are the trouble makers and they are losing superpower status in big ways and pretty much gone and any way the best turn for serbia is towards RUSSIA,CHINA,INDIA
the real superpowers economy and militarily. america wants everyone else to die in their wars that they caused say no to NATO!!!

(Amer, 13 January 2010 18:29)

I can answer you that question. The latest is that Russia and NATO are close to an agreement which means Russia will have veto powers in this new organization. The US was holding out but its opposition is starting to crack within the US administration considering that they need the Russians for the Afghanistan campaign and now want to have a go in Yemen.
Also, the Chinese do not have a colonial mind set of the US. They prefer to buy what they want and leave internal politics to the locals which is much easier and cheaper – that’s why they love them in Africa, unlike the US that thinks it has a God given right to meddle into everything.
Me thinks you read too much into this or should I say you hope too much!

History tells that being a NATO member helps and if all other neighbouring countries will join the club how will Serbia be isolated and alone ?.. So you can opt for NO but it will be difficoult to remain out..
(Luigi, 13 January 2010 14:29)

And how is Serbia going to be disadvantaged if not in NATO?
Are you suggesting that a NATO country will attack Serbia paving a way for the rest to join just because Serbia is not in the club?

I cannot see any disadvantages but would love to hear what the advantages are. Please state them.

(Amer, 14 January 2010 01:20)

Why do you think that NATO’s secretary general went to Moscow recently? He was not there to see the Kremlin museum. Have a good look at Afghanistan and see how the NATO allies get their food and equipment to their troops – they can’t go through Pakistan or Iran so the only path left is through Russia and Russian controlled countries surrounding Afghanistan.
Your statement about Clinton and Putin is true, but this was several years ago and the situation has changed dramatically. Russia wanted a new alliance to replace NATO but the real issue is that the US does not wish to allow veto power to Russia in any organization, but one way or another this will happen because they are relying more and more on Russia for assistance.
Clinton’s and George Bush (senior) greatest mistake was to treat Russia like a vanquished nation. Had they behaved as equals even though the Russians would have known who was “boss” then things would be very different today! The Russians would have been grateful to the US, but it’s a mistake that the US cannot rectify and even some within the current US administration admit this error.

'Russia wanted a new alliance to replace NATO but the real issue is that the US does not wish to allow veto power to Russia in any organization, but one way or another this will happen because they are relying more and more on Russia for assistance. '

There are other routes, more expensive, to be sure, but not expensive enough to allow Russia veto power over Nato decisions.

Poland and the US have just recently ensured that the Baltic states will be explicitly covered by Article 5 - hardly something that indicates the U.S. is paying greater deference to Russia's interests.