K. Albanians oppose new status talks

Well, no deal means that 1244 will still be valid. Meaning Kosovo is a UN governed province of Serbia.

Have a great day. Sorry, girls and guys, but I am glad I live in Western Europe!

I am much in favour of including all Balkan nations in the EU. But a lot of people in West really do not want to see all these 'childish' nations in the EU.

Come on! You are Albanian, but you live in Serbia. That can happen. Like Germans/Austrians living in Italy. Get a life!

Whether anyone thinks the Albanians will want to give up their "independence" is irrelevant. It's isn't the Albanians decision to make. That decision will be made by the US and EU and the Albanians will have no choice but to do their masters bidding. That's the REALITY. What will the EU and US use as their stick? a threat to leave Kosovo and let the Serbian army march back in - Albanians wouldn't stand a chance, just like before. I'm sure they wouldn't leave but the threat would be enough to persuade any dissenting Albanian.

Ian,
Kosovo Albanians are not being offered things? this is not a competition on who has the most incentives as you have suggested. The case is that Kosovo and Metohija was part of Serbia, a soverign state, it underwent a war with terrorist sepratists, those same terrorists were then backed for US imperialistic goals, those terrorists are now in government.
Can you understand how this is not a product of justice?

Like I have said before, why would they give up their independence? What has Belgrade got which will make Kosovo give up it's independence?

the "irreversable" status will hardly survive the 2nd year ...

Second year is next month, and Kosova survived and did very well so far.
Stay tuned when third year starts comes February 17,2010.

Get a life!
(Ron, 12 January 2010 13:22)
Follow your own advice Ron, the people of Kosovo are, they are getting a life free from oppression!

what a joke of a "republjik" ...
(raso, 12 January 2010 12:50)

Raso, next time you try to prove us that you speak Albanian do your homework first.
“Republjik” is not a word in Albanian.
Writing Albanian terms using Serbo-Croatian (Latin alphabet - if such a thing exists nowadays) makes no sense.
The correct term in Albanian is “Republikë”.

Second year is next month, and Kosova survived and did very well so far.
Stay tuned when third year starts comes February 17,2010.
(Kosova-USA, 12 January 2010 13:39)

Third year of what? No jobs, no investment, no nothing. Your great friend the US of A can’t help you either – they know that Kosovo has to be resolved be anyone will put a foot into the investment arena.
All Serbia has to do is wait and watch as the years roll by and nothing happens in Kosovo.
Happy fourth, fifth …tenth year of nothing”.

The reason why it will surviev is that the wrongs have been righted. you could notn ethnically cleanse kosovo just like you did with Serbrenica so now you cant claim that it is 90% serbian but the other way around. But we shall see what happens.

What would be different now as comparing to the status negotiations that were conducted under UNSC Special Representative Marti Atthisari? Nothing! In fact Kosova is in an even better position now as it was before the original status talks because it is recognised by 64 countries (some of them most powerful) in the world. So what would Serbia hope to gain from these new negotiations then? Nothing! So, what is the meaning of insisting on new status negotiations? There is none!

Serbia has offered Kosova under the Autonomy formula even less that it had in the former Yugoslav federation, where Serbia had legally and factually no say in Kosovas affairs. So why should it be any different now, when Kosova is already independent?

In any case EU is not going to admit Serbia without having normalised its relations with all its neighbours incl Kosova (See the case of border dispute between Slovenia and Croatia as a reference)!
And please spare me the replicas such as “Serbia will normalise its relations with all its neighbours incl Kosova by integrating Kosova into Serbia and then Serbia into EU” as this is not going to happen!

“the Kosovo government will never agree to negotiations with Belgrade regarding Kosovo’s status. The status of our country is irreversible.”
--
Irreversibly blocked. The status quo remains otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on a daily basis. It is the EU/US pushing for a resolution as bankrolling this failure is very costly. However it costs nothing for Serbia and Russia to maintain the status quo.

Something has to break sooner or later and negotiations will take place. I do understand why Pristina continues to reject negotiations - it will be an admission to independence failing. The truth is that Kosovo is neither independent nor is Pristina in control and this will become more evident as time passes.

Živeli!

Kosovo and Metohija is still part of Serbia and it will be proved by the International Court of Justice, how do I know this? Because Serbia would not have invested the huge amount of money in creating the case if they did not believe with certainty that they would win; they had no obligation to take the case to the ICJ.
What is revealing about the Kosovo Albanians and Western nations is that they did not try to legitimise Kosovan Independance with their own case as soon as they had declared independance and realised they were not entering the UN. Why? Mainly because they knew that it would not be possible and that it was not necissary because they had no interest in the rule of law and only cared for recieving funds and creating a country as fast as possible regardless of an ill concieved basis. Surely this is a demonstration of the complete faugulance of the country and their place in modern society? Essentially Kosovo is a criminal state by all accounts; it was created by illegal bombing campaign of a soverign nation, it's leaders are criminals and it's current economic basis comes from criminal activites.

Not really what I would call a solid basis for a country.

However all of this could be reveresed and Kosovo Albanian credibility could be returned if new talks were engaged in and all wishes were forfilled but because the US is sitting behind them they have no reason to i.e they will recieve everything they want from their "masters" and the Serbs are unable to influence the situation as they are not in a commanding position. However as we have seen in history the tables tend to change and I dont think the current attitude of Kosovo ALbanians will benefit them when there is nobody sitting behind them and Serbia decides that it will impose it's rule of law.

This is what one would call poor longevity. I naive aproach which Albanians will no doubt regret.

I understand Serbia's desire to re-open status negotiations. Most countries in this situation would probably do the same.
Same goes for the Kosovo Albanian side in insisting that the status negotiations are a closed chapter.

The reality in the ground is as follows:

1) 1999 - 2006 was a lost decade (minus a couple of years). Serbia largely ignored Kosovo as the "West's" problem. Kosovo Albanians were resigned to being ruled by UN Administration and for the most part forgot Belgrade existed.

2) 2006 - 2007 both sides decide to wake up and get into "fox got its tail wet, fox didn't get its tail wet" negotiations, full of the theatrics and no substance.

3) 2008 - Kosovo declares independence and Belgrade tries everything it can to undermine it.

4) Serbia probably still has outstanding arrest warrants on a number of KLA commanders who very likely hold positions of leadership in Kosovo.

Against such a list of "accomplishments" towards normality, I think the only realistic approach is to, as Mike mentioned earlier, agree to disagree on the status for the foreseable future.

In the mean time, from the Serb perspective, Belgrade can quietly drop most of the retaliatory measures it's taken so far in areas of economy, trade and education. I realize the knee-jerk reaction among a number of the posters would be to interpret that as Belgrade giving in, but in reality, Serbia does gain in terms of international reputation and business (it already has trade surpluses with Albania and it would probably have it with Kosovo as well for a while).

From the Kosovo Albanian perspective, once Serbia becomes less of a bogeyman, the local population can start judging their leaders not as ex-KLA heroes, but by "what have you done for me lately" criteria. Hopefully the pragmatic politicians will do better in elections and any heroes-turned-crooks will be booted out of politics (naturally, EU/US pressure will be key in the fight against corruption).

In the near term, I believe both Kosovo Serbs and Albanians would benefit from a reduction in tensions and that's the whole point.

Finally, with a "slow" approach based on goodwill rather than forced status talks, the economies and politics of the area could well become more tightly integrated and old hostilities take a backseat. Things may even become so good that any future status/territorial splits/whatever negotiations may turn into an "agreement among gentlemen" rather than agreements at gunpoint (the EU/US/local electorate gunpoint) that both sides are likely to resent.

I don't know why people want "new" status talk. When did the first status talks take place?
The so called Rambouillet talks were a joke.

"Lord Gilbert, said in an inquiry by a House committee "I think the terms put to Milošević at Rambouillet were absolutely intolerable; how could he possibly accept them; it was quite deliberate".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambouillet_Agreement

In other words the albanians and the americans negotiated with themselves and now say there can be no more talks. The fact remains that Kosovo is Serbian territory according to international law. A UDI by the albanians and the americans won't change that. Serbs have the legar right to treat Kosovo anyway the want until they agree to anything else.
Kosovo je Srbija!

Ian, what is this, amnesia every time a new news topic comes up?
I answered why last time.

Repeating your opinion, ignoring somebody who answers, is not a sign of intelligence.

"You gave some suggestions, which the Kosovars aint buying because it is not worth giving up their independence. I don't think any country would give up their independence for what Serbia has to offer because it grossly in favour of Serbia not Kosovo. This news article just proves they are not buying what Belgrade has to offer. Re-negotiating Kosovo's status is only in Belgrade's favour not Kosovo's. It is costing Kosovo far too much for What Belgrade is offering. So I realistically ask, what has Belgrade got which will make the Kosovars give up their independence up?
(Ian, UK, 12 January 2010 15:33)"

Do you really think there is no benefit to resolving status issues. You will find in time that Pristina will talk to Belgrade about status. When that will be I don't know but a dispute cannot be resolved by one side.

What I do know is that demanding total capitulation never works. In this case it will just fuel nationalists at a time when Serbia is at a junction - you just need to read some comments on here. At present there is a democratic, pro European government who I believe have the will and ability to face the past, compromise and develop good relations. No one is asking K-Albanians to come under Serbian rule. That can only happen by force and the best way to increase the likelihood of that in the future is to continue with unilateral moves in the absence of any discussions.

What about discussing the form of independence? Isn't that status talks?

Why you're rushing this way? We have a lot of time. Maybe you're afraid of the icj response that everybody knows that will be neutral.Neutral for my k.Albos brother means victory, for the simple fact that, to have new recognitions will be much easier for them and the road to the UN will be much faster. Now you're plan B is at least to get a piece of kosovo and at the same time to have kosovo problem solved so your eu membership would not be that problematic. The serbs are getting very nervous since the very begining of this year, thats a sign of something going wrong. And you're losing day after day you bargaining position. Every step that Serbia makes towards the eu means a much softer position on kosovo,that means less pressure on the kosovo institution and eulex. Every step forward for serbia in the eu is a step forward for kosovo too. The eu membership of Serbia is a very good thing for Kosovo. The faster the eu membership of serbia the faster kosovo get stronger. Serbia is as the french say in a "cul de sac". Now with this last proposition for new negotiation you confirm that now you are consciuos that kosovo is gone, but you want to gain something. And you know that the next condition for you to make another step to EU is "DIALOGUE WITH PRISTINA".You want to transform this dailogue table in a negotiation one. But you guys have to understand that the train is not more aviable in that old "station" of yours. To catch the train you must search to a new station. Is all about being punctual.
P.s.-Now how to be punctual:
If you're battling chronic lateness, there is hope. According to the experts, you can avoid procrastination and tardiness by changing your habits and tweaking your routines. Here are some things you can do to turn lateness into punctuality: "RECOGNISE KOSOVO"

Cheers....

LOL

the "irreversable" status will hardly survive the 2nd year ...

and that without the only possible way to liberate occupied parts of kosmet: force ...

what a joke of a "republjik" ...
(raso, 12 January 2010 12:50)

The second year is closing in a month and the budget is 1.46 billion euro ($2.1 billion) which is six percent higher than the previous year, so what survivel are you laughing at?

Talks yes, about lots of things; you know the things that states discuss.
Status talks, never.
That boat has sailed people.
By all means, you can wait for the boat unfortunately it is not coming back to collect the remaining passengers.
The boat has already reached the destination; we all know that the destination was.
Save yourselves valuable time, hustle and disappointment. … Take another boat.
I cannot believe that there are people in this forum that still believe that Kosovo will accept another forced marriage with Serbia.
Not after the last one.
Not today, not tomorrow,.... never again.
Wake up people, honestly!!!

LOL

the "irreversable" status will hardly survive the 2nd year ...

and that without the only possible way to liberate occupied parts of kosmet: force ...

what a joke of a "republjik" ...

In love and politics, never say never!...
May God give wisdom to all involved in this, for the sake of the region's future.

best to everybody,
Costel Petre, Timisoara

"Status" may not be the operative word, but acknowledging current de facto realities may be a practical way forward, and a bitter pill both Belgrade and Pristina will have to swallow. Pristina won't put "status" on the table, but it might be willing - or even resigned - to put internal authority up for debate; and that may very well be a bi-zonal confederation of Serb and Albanian components within a united Kosovo that is under the executive authority of the EU. Albanians keep their "capital" at Pristina and Serbs finally have "theirs" at KM acknowledged. There's no way all of Kosovo can be reincorporated into the rest of Serbia, but there's no way Kosovo can ever be a "functioning state" as its proponents want to claim. While the entire region remains in limbo, ordinary people suffer, the economy grinds to a halt, and those who can leave will buy themselves a one-way ticket out. Hardly the halcyonic scenario some utopianists had in mind when they envisioned Kosovo as a stable, multiethnic land of sunshine and rainbows.

Repeating your opinion, ignoring somebody who answers, is not a sign of intelligence.
(bganon, 12 January 2010 15:09)

You gave some suggestions, which the Kosovars aint buying because it is not worth giving up their independence. I don't think any country would give up their independence for what Serbia has to offer because it grossly in favour of Serbia not Kosovo. This news article just proves they are not buying what Belgrade has to offer. Re-negotiating Kosovo's status is only in Belgrade's favour not Kosovo's. It is costing Kosovo far too much for What Belgrade is offering. So I realistically ask, what has Belgrade got which will make the Kosovars give up their independence up?

What about discussing the form of independence? Isn't that status talks?
(Mister, 12 January 2010 16:40)

Serbia is bound by its own Constitution not to discuss that. Under your own laws and Constitution anyone who attempts to discuss anything with the word independence on it is committing treason.
Constitutionally Serbia cannot offer anything but autonomy. Constitutionally what that autonomy actually means is decided only by the Serbian parliament. Based on this alone anyone who is not blind and has the ability to think logically can see that Serbia cannot offer anything but autonomy, whatever that autonomy means can be decided solely by Serbian parliamentarians. That is a non-starter, since the greatest thing Serbia can offer Constitutionally is a status that is worse than pre 1999. I should also add that Kosova Albanians were excluded from voting for such a Constitution that attempts to decide their fate and their daily lives. So based on these actions, based on the fact that Constitutionally Serbia cannot offer anything more that didn't exist in the past prior to the war, and based on the fact that Kosova already has much much more than Serbia can ever offer there are no incentives whatsoever for us Albanians to turn into the table and talk about status just so that we can help Serbia get into the EU. It doesn't work like that. Since Serbia ever since 1999 and even earlier than that has tried every way possible to make our lives miserable in every way possible way, and hamper every progress we have tried to make I think it is only reasonable for us not only to not foolishly talk about status but put some pressure on Serbia by creating difficulties and possibly delaying her from joining the EU due to the bad relations she has with Kosova.
I know that plenty of you would disregard Kosova putting pressure as something nonsensical but then again you've disregarded what we can do in the past as well. That hasn't worked out so well.

(Demi, 12 January 2010 16:48):

You must be writing from Mars. The only true victims are the Serbs. This is true, just look at how the decline of the Serbs accrued over the last 150 years. In 2004 alone, Albanians destroyed over 150 churches, and shrines.

Kosovo is not a country but a mafia run wasteland that will never amount to what we in the West considers civilized nation. It's a temporary experiment to see if the west can build a nation out of waste.
(Jack, 12 January 2010 17:13)

You EULEX workers should really lets us know from which country you hail so that we Albanians can respond accordingly. You shouldn't hide behind "international worker" , personally I consider you the lowest of the low. So go back to the hole you came from and point fingers at minorities and immigrants in your country we have enough problems with Tadiq and Co trying to start a religious war here.

"Where was the justice when 900 000 K.albanians was forced to leave their homes and property by serbian paramilitary forces?
Demi

Where is justice for Serb victims during WW2. The Kosovo albanians colaborated with the nazis and killed thousands of Serbs and forced even more to leave Kosovo? Does that mean that Serbs should have forced all Albanians out of Kosovo once the war ended and made sure you never came back? The fact remains: Kosovo is Serbia. International law is proof of that! Our monasteries and churches is proof of that! Our history is proof of that! We don't have to make up stories about some ancient people to prove that Kosovo has always been Serbian territory. It is currently occupied by Albanians and the Amricans. However, as long as Serbia doesn't sign Kosovo away it is and will always be Serbian land.

Kosovo Albanians are not being offered things? this is not a competition on who has the most incentives as you have suggested. The case is that Kosovo and Metohija was part of Serbia, a soverign state, it underwent a war with terrorist sepratists, those same terrorists were then backed for US imperialistic goals, those terrorists are now in government.
Can you understand how this is not a product of justice?
(Vuk, 12 January 2010 16:12)


Where was the justice when 900 000 K.albanians was forced to leave their homes and property by serbian paramilitary forces ? Or all those wich were murdered by serbian military ?

There was no war in Kosovo. Only serbian military against K.albanian civilians. KLA was made by the people of Kosovo to protect the people against serbian repression wich have lasted since 1912. Just read about Rankovic and how he treated K.albanians and non-serbs.

Kosovo is not a country but a mafia run wasteland that will never amount to what we in the West considers civilized nation. It's a temporary experiment to see if the west can build a nation out of waste.

Ian never mind about your opinion as to what the Kosovars aint buying (for the record I'll wager that at least some of the recommendeds for my post came from Albanians and some of the thumbs down came from Serbs) - don't hide behind public opinion. What is your opinion about what is right?
What is your opinion about what would be best for the future of Kosovo, for all the people living in Kosovo? This might be a nice point to admit your interest in the Kosovo issue, whilst we are being honest and upfront.

BTW since when is does attendence of negotiations mean you have to give up what you have - there is no such condition, you created that yourself.

You speak of costs - Belgrade's position is harming the Kosovo economy to the scale of tens of millions of euros per year and that is a conservative figure. I take no pleasure from this.

And as for these newspaper articles, again many of these newspapers (and analysts) are close to political parties who don't want status talks for their own vested reasons. They have their 'businessmen' and actually they don't want foreign investment, international norms etc. Is is so hard to imagine trying to help the people improve their lives, despite their rulers?

In my opinion (I'm not going to hide behind the opinion of majority of Serbs) attending talks would be the start of a solution to the Kosovo issue and the beginning of normalisation of society there and the normalisation of the Kosovo question in Serbia. This will allow Kosovo to develop and allow both political systems to mature and the issue of Kosovo will not be able to be abused by politicians keen to draw away from the fact that they are unable to bring peace and prosperity to their people.

Surely we all want that and no I'm not suggesting that a set of talks will produce milk and honey but they will be the beginning of something like normal life. What we have in Kosovo and Serbia to some extent is not normal life for ordinary people...

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees... That's why I think you can keep your kind offer of negotiations.
Btw: If the Serbian side is so sure about being on the winning side: Why the heck would you want to negotiate???

P.S.: Just a bit off topic since he will sooner or later add his "wisdom": Jason, I have been following your comments for quite a while and I agree that you certainly have the right to have a differing opinion, well the same right Benedict Arnold or Martin J. Monti had...

(Demi, 12 January 2010 16:48)

I would like you to find the evidense for 900,000 Albanians leaving their homes prior to the implementation of the NATO bombing campaign. This number is greatly exagerated and when compared to 250,000 Serbs leaving out of a total of 500,000 which were living their prior to 1998 it is completely relative. However as you will note, the 900,000 Albanians have returned and the 250,000 Serbs are yet to return.

I wonder if you would like to clarify on your claim that the KLA was created to protect Albanians? When it is very evident that it carried out the majority of its actions offensively against Serbian security forces, as this is widely documented. The KLA is even documented to have turned against Albanians who refused to support them. It also resided on the US (thats your chief supporter)terrorism groups charts at No.3 which is an impressive feat for such a small force.
There has been no occupation of Kososo since 1912 since there was no major expansion of Serbian peoples or military to the region in this time, unless there is a secret conspiracy which you would like to inform me of which even Albanian sources dont seem to acknowledge. To inform you of your "own" history the treaty of London was signed in the following year by Albanians and Serbs alike; infact spliting what was the Vilayet of Kosovo between Albania, Serbia and Montenegro.

The problem on balkan is, that all say the word "never" to often. You fix your statement and can´t change anything it in the future.

Just forget this word!!!!

you allow Albanians to cut off pieces of territory -you destroy world order aka UN

Jack, I don't know who you are, but me being a western, I must say that I have to do nothing with you nor your comment. But, I think you are a serb, trying to make things look a bit better for you.

I'm German by the way, from Saarbrücken.
So offer the hand of reconciliation to KS Albanians, and live happily in peace, but you must now forget Kosovo and move on, you had it once but you didn't handle it well, now its time to say good bye.


Tschüss,

Thomas

So go back to the hole you came from and point fingers at minorities and immigrants in your country we have enough problems with Tadiq and Co trying to start a religious war here.
(Bekim, 12 January 2010 19:39)

Eventhough I find Jack comments a bit too far out, yours is even a step lower, which certainly will help nobody particularly not the bad image k-a are having abroad.

I would suggest you to read instead what Ment or Mike wrote, it will maybe help you to be more objective and less hyper nationalist!

Yes, a lot of us foreign blogers were and still are against the illegal UDI because it was based on lies and dirty politics, it doesn't make us anti k-a but again, reading blogers like you and other well know nationalists doesn't give us any confort as to the type of mentality you are distributing here.

Spiting on Eulex and other intl organizations doesn't help you at all and in any case they would not ask your or your "politicians" advice, you wanted it, you got it and now you have to live with it, including with all the strings that are attached around you.

Do not spit on the hand that feeds you it might slap you..

All Serbia has to do is wait and watch as the years roll by and nothing happens in Kosovo.

Just wait and see! And just some arguments to explain you:yesterday we had just serbian repression,today we have rebuild our houses,restablished a normal life without fears and crimes,today we believe that every day is better than the day before,despite what you think,every day we add something to our well being.
If you think that we will let you come again,unprotected and unarmed as yesterday... ...

Wow Ment, you are pretty much spot on. And a well thought out post from the Albanian side.

What you are describing is pretty much "more than autonomy, less than independence". Serbia will control those parts of Kosovo under its influence (about 40%) and ethnic Albanians theirs (60%). Serbia will lift any trade restrictions while conditions for the return of refugees and the displaced are put in place.

The idea of independence will be a thing of the past and will hopefully not matter. This doesn't have to be a black and white issue. We will have to live with shades of grey and create something new for Kosovo.

I don't expect Kosovo Albanians to lose anything they already have, like passports and diplomatic relations but a UN seat and independence will not be on offer.

The important thing here is freedom of movement and safety for all. Peace and prosperity will be in sight!

Irreversibly blocked. The status quo remains otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on a daily basis. It is the EU/US pushing for a resolution as bankrolling this failure is very costly. However it costs nothing for Serbia and Russia to maintain the status quo.

Something has to break sooner or later and negotiations will take place. I do understand why Pristina continues to reject negotiations - it will be an admission to independence failing. The truth is that Kosovo is neither independent nor is Pristina in control and this will become more evident as time passes.

Živeli!
(Zoran, 12 January 2010 15:37)

It seems you serbs have figured out everything, where do we Albanians sign? I mean we have no future, independence blocked, EU blocked because of religion, incompetent EULEX, KFOR that is not guarding Kosova's borders but only churches and not even electricity is working. Also our own government is folding like a cheap suit in front of the rape of Kosova's constitution by the EULEX. It looks grim but,NO, thanks.

Also our own government is folding like a cheap suit in front of the rape of Kosova's constitution by the EULEX. It looks grim but,NO, thanks.
(Bekim, 12 January 2010 17:05)
--
Bekim, you forgot to mention the EU created prison camp "Kosova" and issued useless passports to keep ethnic Albanians secure and "independent" ;)

However, negotiations are not up to you or Demi, Ian or anyone else here against them. When the US tells Pristina to negotiate then Pristina will do it. The deal will have already been made and the rest will be just formalities. It is pointless arguing otherwise.

Also, using made up propaganda as some excuse not to negotiate just wont cut it. If you haven't noticed, it looks like lots of back room deals are being made. Why did Serbia lodge a counter claim against Croatia just before elections and now Croatia is hinting at dropping its genocide case? Do you really believe the ICJ case will lead to a dead end? I can tell you, it will lead to negotiations... wait and see my friends.

Ian "UK" - You claim to be from the UK so I assume you had a decent level of education. But it's not inconceivable that you might be illiterate. If so, then please find someone who can explain the text from UNSCR 1244, namely:

"Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region, as set out in the Helsinki Final Act and annex 2,

Reaffirming the call in previous resolutions for substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo"

This would seem to indicate a couple of things to me 1)Serbia's territorial integrity (don't waste time saying Yugoslavia and Serbia are different - at the UN they aren't) is reaffirmed, and 2) Kosovo Albanians are entitled to extensive autonomy, NOT independence.

But, as we've all seen, the Albanians and their allies have tried to twist International law for their own ends, Albanian nationalism and US and EU strategic interests. This wouldn't be the first time the EU and US flouted international law, e.g. Iraq, and I'm sure it won't be the last!

So Ian, having read the above, since when has Serbia not been allowed to declare Kosovo as it's province and how exactly does it violate UNSCR 1244? You must be some legal genius because that's the first time I've heard anybody declare that Serbia recognising Kosovo as it's province violates UNSCR 1244, but then again you could just be ignorant and illiterate. As the US and it's allies haven't used your argument at the ICJ, i'll have to assume it's the latter.

icj1 "While declaring independence, Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244 since such resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory." Could you provide me with the specific part of the document which backs up your position?

Roberto The Albanian - "as to some of these self-id'd internationals, you have no integrity and need to quit immediately." Hypocracy of the highest order. Are you ashamed of your heritage/ethnicity? adding comments on this forum pretending to be "an international" instead of an ethnic Albanian shows a lack of integrity and a level of cowardice of the highest order. At least your fellow Albanians have the guts to admit who they are. What would the residents of your new country call you - a yellow belly.

You can do whatever with areas Serbs live as long as we can do whatever with the areas Albanians live. When you guys get that then like us you can move on as well.
(johny, 13 January 2010 02:59)
--
johny, even though you have worded your response using language of disagreement, I think we essentially agree on core matters.

Serbians control their areas while ethnic Albanians control their own. Everyone leaves each other alone while there is freedom of movement throughout the whole territory. Status is defined by each country, those that recognise it and those that don't. Ethnic Albanians are essentially independent within their own entity while Serbians remain loyal to their state - Serbia.

This is what I call more than autonomy, less than independence. It is the path to peace and prosperity. Kosovo Albanains are likely to have a special status within the EU while Kosovo Serbians will be members as part of Serbia.

Personally, I believe this agreement has already been made. We just need to go through the motions to make it so. Some of the ultra nationalists here will just need to eat humble pie.

I think that i have a best solution about your problem being solved SSP.
What about we let all Serbs go back in (holly land) Kosovo.
And K.Albanians take over all Serbian land.
SWOP and will be peace in BALLKAN STATES FOREVER.

Wow Ment, you are pretty much spot on. And a well thought out post from the Albanian side.

What you are describing is pretty much "more than autonomy, less than independence". Serbia will control those parts of Kosovo under its influence (about 40%) and ethnic Albanians theirs (60%). Serbia will lift any trade restrictions while conditions for the return of refugees and the displaced are put in place.

The idea of independence will be a thing of the past and will hopefully not matter. This doesn't have to be a black and white issue. We will have to live with shades of grey and create something new for Kosovo.

I don't expect Kosovo Albanians to lose anything they already have, like passports and diplomatic relations but a UN seat and independence will not be on offer.

The important thing here is freedom of movement and safety for all. Peace and prosperity will be in sight!
(Zoran, 12 January 2010 21:51)

Zoran under the Serbian Constitution Serbia already has that. So what is your problem? What is the problem you have and why do you want to sit on a table with us if you already have what you want? It is written in black and white in your on Constitution. What seems to be the problem with that? Do you have a problem with your Constitution and the status Kosova has there? Change it, nobody is stopping you. And now that we're used to not being allowed to vote for it do us the honors and change it again just as you wish. Nobody will even attempt to raise a voice. Make up any status you want.

Also Serbia can't offer independence. Independence isn't offered. Can you tell me who offered Serbia its independence? Can you tell me who offered Greece its independence? Nobody offers you independence on a silver platter. Independence is taken and claimed. So now that we cleared that up, rest assured that nobody is expecting Serbia to offer anything it can't offer. Rest assured no Albanian is expecting or even imagining some sort of recognition from Serbia. We are more than ok with this gray status we have right now. Even if its just one state a year that recognizes us we are just fine and dandy. It doesn't matter to us one bit whether Serbia recognizes us or not, or whether it is happy or unhappy about how gray the Kosova issue or the way the status is. We are just fine with it. We are doing our own thing, minding our own matters and moving on. As far as we are concerned we have no open issues. We can live with the way things are. Especially considering how much worse they've been for us in the past. However it seems that Serbia has a problem with this gray area, it has a problem with us minding our own business and doing our own thing, it has a problem with us getting more recognitions even though they claim they don't mean a thing, it has a problem with our diplomatic relations and foreign embassies in Kosova, it has a problem that we have the backing of some of the biggest economies and democracies in the world. What seems to be the problem if in your eyes we are not independent? What seems to be the problem for Serbia whether or not we have the backing of West if you claim you do not want to have anything to do with us? One word is the answer. Expansionism. Things have changed, get used to it. No longer can you hold sovereignty over those you persecute. Not because some imaginary inexistent international law gives you permanent sovereignty over those you persecute, and not because some world wide conspiracy theory against your state. Simply because the social contract that gives you sovereignty over a people has been broken and when a people decides to take sovereignty in their own hands that's it. That is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end of all. What your hardcore nationalist found out is that the only way to change that is to get rid of such population. There is no superpower, there is no military, there is no money that can overturn a people's will to be the guarantors of their own sovereignty. It has always been the case it will always be the case. Not with just us but with everyone. The fact that we didn't give up when thousands were murdered and millions were ethnically cleansing should be enough of an indicator that this is not some capricious idea we came up with yesterday but the will, the ideal, and the blood of 2 million people. Until those are living there, independence is the word of the day whether there are foreign boots or not, whether we are occupied or not. It makes no difference. We live for independence and like we have shown have died for it. That's how it is that's how it will always be. Anything, anybody else tells you are fairy tales. These are not the words of an ardent nationalist but the words of the average Joe in the Albanian population. Any unfound dreams you might have that the US or anyone for that matter will say we are now Serbia's property and we agree and sign on the dotted line is just that. Dreams. When the last Albanian in Kosova dies that's when our will for Kosova's independence dies. We had that will for independence prior to Western backing and we have it now. It will always be that way. Now you can either recognize this fact or you can choose to ignore it. Either way we are fine. When I mean you I mean you personally, others in the Serb camp here and your state as well. This is not about territory, this is about people. Personally speaking you can have any areas where Serbs live as long as we have any areas Albanians live. You can do whatever with areas Serbs live as long as we can do whatever with the areas Albanians live. When you guys get that then like us you can move on as well.

Vuk, you make some claims that you, yourself, know are not true. Here's a breakdown:

1) You claim: "Serbia would not have invested the huge amount of money in creating the case if they did not believe with certainty that they would win; they had no obligation to take the case to the ICJ."

Answer: Wrong! Serbia deemed this as an "obligation" to its people, the people of Serbia, to show (and please them) that they haven't given up on Kosovo.

2) You claim: "Surely this is a demonstration of the complete faugulance of the country and their place in modern society? Essentially Kosovo is a criminal state by all accounts; it was created by illegal bombing campaign of a soverign nation, it's leaders are criminals and it's current economic basis comes from criminal activites.

Answer: Wrong! Serbia is that country that has not proven it deserves a place in modern society. Serbia is responsible for many wars in the Ballkans. The bombing of NATO was NOT illegal. It saved a people from genocide committed by Serbia.

3) You claim: "I dont think the current attitude of Kosovo ALbanians will benefit them when there is nobody sitting behind them and Serbia decides that it will impose it's rule of law."

Answer: Wrong! Serbia will not ever again impose it's criminal and destructive way over Kosovo. The attitude of people like yourself is what is not beneficial to your own country, Serbia. Rather than face facts, you claim things that Serbia, in fact, is guilty of. Serbia has a bad history in Europe. That is why your country has not made progress in European Integrations. Think about it!

“as to some of these self-id'd internationals, you have no integrity and need to quit immediately. try to get home, and start taking some courses in ethics. morals, something. anything. your evil is quickly destroying the reputation of all us intls (roberto, 13 January 2010 06:11)”

Roberto, I suggest you take your own advice next time you considering going to my country (Bosnia) to stir up trouble between ethnicities. We don’t need your brand of hate.

Recognition from obscure countries, welfare donations from the West (yawn). Whil nothing is happening K alb politicians are stealing money left and right. Time is on Serbias side.
Hey all you multiculturalistas, English is the language of government, business and education in your patron USA, German in Germany French in France. As this is a model for a freedom loving tolerant society so Serbia should make Serbian the national language for government and education.
If you don't like it. As the Americans say, "this is America (substitute Serbia) Love it or Leave it!"

i for one have had enough of you. JUST LEAVE.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 13 January 2010 06:11)

can i send the same message to you? your posts are intellectually empty and just full of moralising. why don't you just join some church and become a priest or something? or a buddhist monk, since i sense that people like you would have a more positive opinion about that religion?

Us Albanians are ok with this fact. It seems you Serbs are not ok. So us Albanians are in a position to move on, and we have moved on.
(johny, 13 January 2010 19:41)

but why don't you sit at the table and formalise this fact and move on in a meaningful way rather than make silly proclamations that you have moved on? moved on to where? your leaders created a situation where they can't negotiate with belgrade and half of the world doesn't have any respect for kosovo which remains not a country but a protectorate. even plenty of serbian nationalists on this site say they would be satisfied with serbia's formal sovereignity over serb enclaves and holy sites and would let the rest go. this is more or less "facts on the ground" at the moment. just make that official in a negotiated deal and that's it.

the only viable option for kosovo remaining formally a part of serbia is independence in everything but a name. which is again very close to what kosovo will have if it never becomes a un member. in fact, it would be possible for kosovo to be a un member even if it is formally a part of serbia (see ukraine and belarus when they were a part of the soviet union). in every other respect kosovo could be independent and be much more a state than it is now.

i think serbs are not really that delusional about kosovo and a deal along these lines would be acceptable to them. only the most deluded among serbian nationalists want serbia to rule over kosovo albanians again.

>>I cannot believe that there are people in this forum that still believe that Kosovo will accept another forced marriage with Serbia.
Not after the last one.
Not today, not tomorrow,.... never again.
Wake up people, honestly!!!
(casual_visitor, 12 January 2010 18:46)>>

thank you, casual visitor. well said. and i am so pleased that so many of our albanian colleagues continue to participate in this forum. sometimes it really seems hopeless and so one-sided. but not today. today my frnds are out in force :)) Yeah!!

as for the issue of negotiations: i keep repeating -- we (certainly I) are in favor of negotiations. i agree -- there is much to discuss, never-ending problems, tensions, challenges, distrusts, real and manufactured. the list goes on forever, and these are matters we do need to bring up. i do agree; i am genuinely pro-negotiation.

of course, it has nothing to do w our independence -- who is still imagining such things? it is just a widespread illusion. and that the US would demand the people of kosovo/a revisit that bizarre, "more than autonomy/less than independence" schtick?? that is utterly bizarre.

as to some of these self-id'd internationals, you have no integrity and need to quit immediately. try to get home, and start taking some courses in ethics. morals, something. anything. your evil is quickly destroying the reputation of all us intls, and i for one have had enough of you. JUST LEAVE.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Ment,

Normally I dont got the whole 'Recommended' button thingy on this forum but in your case, I'll make an exception. Excellent and well thought out point. Johnny, I also enjoyed your comment and I belive that reconciliation and compromise is the only way forward. Easy to say but despite what has happened, I believe it can be done.

Guys, keep the coming.

When that time comes kosovo Albanians won't be asked for new negotiations for the Kosovo status they will be ordered to negotiate with the Serbia cause nothing is over yet.

You gave some suggestions, which the Kosovars aint buying because it is not worth giving up their independence. I don't think any country would give up their independence for what Serbia has to offer because it grossly in favour of Serbia not Kosovo. This news article just proves they are not buying what Belgrade has to offer. Re-negotiating Kosovo's status is only in Belgrade's favour not Kosovo's. It is costing Kosovo far too much for What Belgrade is offering. So I realistically ask, what has Belgrade got which will make the Kosovars give up their independence up?
(Ian, UK, 12 January 2010 15:33)

Ian, your attitude reminds me very much of your Protestant Unionist brethern in Northern Ireland. For years they proscrastinated, said "No Surrender", "No" to talks, "No" to power sharing, No to this, No to that, Paisley even mouthing off "Never, never, never", organised strikes, riots, pogroms etc. but at the end of the day they had to give in and accept reality. They had to accept peace and the need to not only talk but also share power with their Catholic neighbours.

Thats the position that Pristina will find themselves in soon enough and will have to accept. The current status quo is not feasable in the medium term so a negotiated solution must be found, either in the terms Belgrade is offering, a Daytonised Kosovo that Mike has suggested or a partition, but either way, the Snake and Sejdiu can only beat their chests for so long until the locals start focusing on the bread and butter issues.

Yes, a lot of us foreign blogers were and still are against the illegal UDI because it was based on lies and dirty politics, it doesn't make us anti k-a but again, reading blogers like you and other well know nationalists doesn't give us any confort as to the type of mentality you are distributing here.

Spiting on Eulex and other intl organizations doesn't help you at all and in any case they would not ask your or your "politicians" advice, you wanted it, you got it and now you have to live with it, including with all the strings that are attached around you.

Do not spit on the hand that feeds you it might slap you..
(The Swiss, 12 January 2010 22:23)

Let me get this straight. So you are this self-righteous, unbaised westerner who finds him/her self appalled by the injusteces of this world and in great sorrow works hard for a better world which will become poossible only with the rise of Russia and China.

Who are you kidding. Most of the "foreign" blogers here supporting Serbia clearly are biased due to having, in a way or another, direct connection or life experiences with and in Serbia (like urself). Have you ever seen a mass grave full of boddies killed by Serbian thugs and terrorists? Of course not. Your opinion is mostly theoritical, and comes from very comfortable and biased position, what do you know about war and reality?

Oh I forgot your self-denying K-Alb neighbors of your parents, .... I mean since this seems to be pretty much the only experience you have had with Albanians, which apparently is overshadowed by this bad reputation you believe they have in the west.

But I do agree with you though that EULEX and UNMIK should not be seen as hostile by K-Alb, and they are not besides a few rejected Alb who do it out of ignorance.

'Kosova is an independent state and yes the Serb areas are within the Independent state of Kosova.

Us Albanians are ok with this fact.'

Except that it isn't a fact on the ground is it? You know your position mirrors the Serbian position in the 1990's about no negotiation on autonomy.

Are you going to send troops into North Kosovo as Serbia sent them south?

And are you going to lose the north permanently as a result in the same way you say Serbia lost Kosovo permamently?

So we don't have the status of northern kosovo to talk about? Try to solve it militarily and I guarantee you will lose it forever.

Responding to Malcom X here. Not the real one cause that one has been dead for decades.

You said the following:
"but why don't you sit at the table and formalise this fact and move on in a meaningful way rather than make silly proclamations that you have moved on? moved on to where? your leaders created a situation where they can't negotiate with belgrade and half of the world doesn't have any respect for kosovo which remains not a country but a protectorate. even plenty of serbian nationalists on this site say they would be satisfied with serbia's formal sovereignity over serb enclaves and holy sites and would let the rest go. this is more or less "facts on the ground" at the moment. just make that official in a negotiated deal and that's it. "

1. Where have you been the last 3-4 years? Have you bothered taking a look at the Serb constitution, lately? If not, go read it again. I'll help you a little bit. All Serbs are bound by their own Constitution not to negotiate anything other than autonomy and what autonomy means is only in the hands of the Serb parliamentarians. Do you get this? Are you clear on what this means? Do you understand what that means? I'll help you a little bit again. It means that any Serb who attempts to negotiate anything else but autonomy is committing treason towards the state of Serbia. It means Serbia is denied by its very own constitution to negotiate anything other than autonomy. It means Serbia cannot negotiate anything else. It means the Serbian parliament can one day imprison every single Albanian politician, dismember its institutions and still call it autonomy because it alone has the authority to do so. It also means that it has been institutionalized that Albanians can be denied the right to vote since the very adoption of such Constitution was done by denying those you call Serbia's citizens the right to vote. As a consequence it also means that there will be no Albanian on the face of this earth that will sit on a table with you to legitimize Belgrade's wish to have any type of sovereignty, be it formal, informal or in name only over any Albanian individual in Kosova. None, zero, nada, zilch. You still haven't got it. Let me be clear so that you and the Serb camp get it. While there might be Albanians there that might want to formalize division along ethnic lines there is no Albanian on this earth that will sit with you to legitimize Serbian sovereignty over any Albanian individual let alone areas and a whole population. Serbian sovereignty, even in name only, over Albanians is a dead, long finished, foregone issue. Once you get this you can also move on.

2.Where we have moved on? We have moved on into a situation where we clearly do not give hoot about what Serbia, Belgrade wants. That is satisfying enough for us.

3. Being a deist and not religious I will not bother entertaining anything that is man-made and called holly. I realize they are important for you but there is no human made thing that is holy in my personal opinion.

4. I would also refrain from talking about world respect whenever Serbia is mentioned. Simply because if Serbia had any world or international respect it wouldn't be barred from flying over certain areas and/or conducting certain activities in certain areas of the country. Respect wise Serbia is in no good condition.


You said:
"the only viable option for kosovo remaining formally a part of serbia is independence in everything but a name. which is again very close to what kosovo will have if it never becomes a un member. in fact, it would be possible for kosovo to be a un member even if it is formally a part of serbia (see ukraine and belarus when they were a part of the soviet union). in every other respect kosovo could be independent and be much more a state than it is now.

i think serbs are not really that delusional about kosovo and a deal along these lines would be acceptable to them. only the most deluded among serbian nationalists want serbia to rule over kosovo albanians again.
(malcolm x, 14 January 2010 12:22)"

1. Again such an option is the only viable option only if you are a Serb or a Serb camp. As you are incapable of seeing the other options. I do not like repeating myself here again but I suggest you educate yourself on the Serb constitution again. Take your time and read it thoroughly. I also suggest you educate yourselves a little bit more on the will of the Albanians. As I stated yesterday; the will to be the guarantors of our own sovereignty is not a capricious idea we invented yesterday. Learn to accept that fact. Again what part of no Serbian sovereignty, be it in name only, over any single Albanian do you guys do not understand. It is crystal clear. That is why we have moved on, and that is why we see no need to bother with Serbia. Again that is why we have moved on.

2. Talking about viable options and special circumstances I also recommend you to see how N. Korea and S. Korea became UN members. So having that in mind and you stating that everything Serbia can offer (which it can't because the Serbia Constitution does not allow it) is what we already have than on what basis is this not a viable option and actually more preferred since again there is no need whatsoever for Serbia and the ties that way continue to be severed?

Well, no deal means that 1244 will still be valid. Meaning Kosovo is a UN governed province of Serbia.
(Ron, 12 January 2010 13:22)

While declaring independence, Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244 since such resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory.

Personally, I believe this agreement has already been made. We just need to go through the motions to make it so. Some of the ultra nationalists here will just need to eat humble pie.
(Zoran, 13 January 2010 11:18)

In the context of joining the EU everything will come down to free movement and imaginary borderlines. So I think what you say makes sense.

There is one and only one thing that will make the difference. An army. K-Alb will never and shall never give up their right to form their own armed forces and protect themselves from Serbian attack like the one in 1999. Serbia will never accept that.

This will make K-Alb de-facto independent no matter if you call it more than autonomy less than independence or whatever you want.

Serbia will never rule K-Alb again, I believe we both agree on this, serbs will never march in Kosovo as they did lets say in 1989, but absolutely they must have the right to travel freely just like they do every other european nation.

If you want to call it more than autonomy less than independence that's fine with me. But for right now Kosovo is moving forward creating a fully functional independent state. Brick by brick we will be building it despite the hardship and difficulties Serbia is giving us. You shall never underestimate our resolve. You did this before and you were proven wrong.

(Mister, 12 January 2010 16:40)

Try telling that to Belgrade who violated UNSCR 1244 by unilaterally saying that Kosovo was Serbia's province in their 2006 constitution. Did Kosovo ever give it's permission to say it was Serbia's province? No. Didn't UNSCR 1244 say that both sides must agree? Yes it did and Serbia's constitution violated this.

(johny, 13 January 2010 19:41)

No talks over Kosovo = nothing happening in Kosovo. What you guys don’t get is the US is very happy with the status quo; they are only interested in Camp Bondsteel and they don’t give a hoot about the Albanians.

icj1 "While declaring independence, Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244 since such resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory." Could you provide me with the specific part of the document which backs up your position?
(Radoslav, 13 January 2010 11:23)

“Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244”
I was referring to Kosovo’s declaration of independence, paragraph 12.

“resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory”
I was referring to the interpretation of resolution 1244 by Vladislav Jovanovic, the FRY representative to the UN, as it happens that I totally agree with that FRY’s interpretation to the resolution.

Serbians control their areas while ethnic Albanians control their own. Everyone leaves each other alone while there is freedom of movement throughout the whole territory. Status is defined by each country, those that recognise it and those that don't. Ethnic Albanians are essentially independent within their own entity while Serbians remain loyal to their state - Serbia.

This is what I call more than autonomy, less than independence. It is the path to peace and prosperity. Kosovo Albanains are likely to have a special status within the EU while Kosovo Serbians will be members as part of Serbia.

Personally, I believe this agreement has already been made. We just need to go through the motions to make it so. Some of the ultra nationalists here will just need to eat humble pie.
(Zoran, 13 January 2010 11:18)

Zoran what you and the Serbs don't seem to understand is this. As far as we are concerned you can call it whatever you want. If you call it more than this and less than that, or heart of this and lung of that, it really does not matter to us. You can find any epithet you want and write it in big red letters in the cover page of your constitution. That has zero importance for us. However what you should also realize is that no Albanian will come sit with you guys on a table and sign on the dotted line on the latest epithet you found for what you guys call as a gray area in Kosova. It seems that that's what you, and your politicians don't seem to grasp. We will not sit with you and give approval to the latest synonym, metaphor, epithet, oxymoron, or hyperbole you finally came up with that you desire to attach to Kosova. On a similar fashion as it has been shown, we have no need, no burning desire, and therefore no rush to get the Serbs to sit on a table with us and get any approval from them regarding what we decide to call and name Kosova. So the problem seems to be that we are fine and more than ok without Serbia's approval, while Serbia is not fine without our approval.
To sum up, speaking personally here and not in the name of others or echoing any policy from Prishtina or Belgrade; freedom of movement yes, free trade yes, Serbs mind their own business, we mind our own business yes. However you and any Serb out there as I said earlier should get it once and for all that neither those like me, nor any of the other ones who are more nationalistic will come and sit on a table with you guys and say yes this is more than autonomy less than independence, yes Kosova is a territory within Serbia. Likewise we do not expect neither those like you, or those more nationalistic than you to come and sit on a table with us and say yes Kosova is an independent state and yes the Serb areas are within the Independent state of Kosova.

Us Albanians are ok with this fact. It seems you Serbs are not ok. So us Albanians are in a position to move on, and we have moved on. While you Serbs are not ok with this and until you are ok with this, as you called it gray area, you will not be able to move on.

Finally I urge you and others to be realistic. Again, there will not be a table sitting where Serbs agree that Kosova is an Independent state or Albanians agree that Kosova is more than autonomous but less than independent. Nobody is expecting this from Serbia and nobody is expecting this from Kosova. Anything else is utopic. Don't wanna burst somebody else's bubble here but even militarily that is not achievable as the last 90 years have showed. Military power against us in the last 90 years only increased our resolve to be independent.

So we don't have the status of northern kosovo to talk about? Try to solve it militarily and I guarantee you will lose it forever.
(bganon, 14 January 2010 00:14)


It seems to be working for you in East Kosova cities of Presheva, Bujanovc and Medvegj.

Well, no deal means that 1244 will still be valid. Meaning Kosovo is a UN governed province of Serbia.

Have a great day. Sorry, girls and guys, but I am glad I live in Western Europe!

I am much in favour of including all Balkan nations in the EU. But a lot of people in West really do not want to see all these 'childish' nations in the EU.

Come on! You are Albanian, but you live in Serbia. That can happen. Like Germans/Austrians living in Italy. Get a life!

LOL

the "irreversable" status will hardly survive the 2nd year ...

and that without the only possible way to liberate occupied parts of kosmet: force ...

what a joke of a "republjik" ...

Like I have said before, why would they give up their independence? What has Belgrade got which will make Kosovo give up it's independence?

The reason why it will surviev is that the wrongs have been righted. you could notn ethnically cleanse kosovo just like you did with Serbrenica so now you cant claim that it is 90% serbian but the other way around. But we shall see what happens.

the "irreversable" status will hardly survive the 2nd year ...

Second year is next month, and Kosova survived and did very well so far.
Stay tuned when third year starts comes February 17,2010.

Kosovo is not a country but a mafia run wasteland that will never amount to what we in the West considers civilized nation. It's a temporary experiment to see if the west can build a nation out of waste.

(Demi, 12 January 2010 16:48):

You must be writing from Mars. The only true victims are the Serbs. This is true, just look at how the decline of the Serbs accrued over the last 150 years. In 2004 alone, Albanians destroyed over 150 churches, and shrines.

"Where was the justice when 900 000 K.albanians was forced to leave their homes and property by serbian paramilitary forces?
Demi

Where is justice for Serb victims during WW2. The Kosovo albanians colaborated with the nazis and killed thousands of Serbs and forced even more to leave Kosovo? Does that mean that Serbs should have forced all Albanians out of Kosovo once the war ended and made sure you never came back? The fact remains: Kosovo is Serbia. International law is proof of that! Our monasteries and churches is proof of that! Our history is proof of that! We don't have to make up stories about some ancient people to prove that Kosovo has always been Serbian territory. It is currently occupied by Albanians and the Amricans. However, as long as Serbia doesn't sign Kosovo away it is and will always be Serbian land.

Second year is next month, and Kosova survived and did very well so far.
Stay tuned when third year starts comes February 17,2010.
(Kosova-USA, 12 January 2010 13:39)

Third year of what? No jobs, no investment, no nothing. Your great friend the US of A can’t help you either – they know that Kosovo has to be resolved be anyone will put a foot into the investment arena.
All Serbia has to do is wait and watch as the years roll by and nothing happens in Kosovo.
Happy fourth, fifth …tenth year of nothing”.

Whether anyone thinks the Albanians will want to give up their "independence" is irrelevant. It's isn't the Albanians decision to make. That decision will be made by the US and EU and the Albanians will have no choice but to do their masters bidding. That's the REALITY. What will the EU and US use as their stick? a threat to leave Kosovo and let the Serbian army march back in - Albanians wouldn't stand a chance, just like before. I'm sure they wouldn't leave but the threat would be enough to persuade any dissenting Albanian.

Kosovo Albanians are not being offered things? this is not a competition on who has the most incentives as you have suggested. The case is that Kosovo and Metohija was part of Serbia, a soverign state, it underwent a war with terrorist sepratists, those same terrorists were then backed for US imperialistic goals, those terrorists are now in government.
Can you understand how this is not a product of justice?
(Vuk, 12 January 2010 16:12)


Where was the justice when 900 000 K.albanians was forced to leave their homes and property by serbian paramilitary forces ? Or all those wich were murdered by serbian military ?

There was no war in Kosovo. Only serbian military against K.albanian civilians. KLA was made by the people of Kosovo to protect the people against serbian repression wich have lasted since 1912. Just read about Rankovic and how he treated K.albanians and non-serbs.

Get a life!
(Ron, 12 January 2010 13:22)
Follow your own advice Ron, the people of Kosovo are, they are getting a life free from oppression!

Repeating your opinion, ignoring somebody who answers, is not a sign of intelligence.
(bganon, 12 January 2010 15:09)

You gave some suggestions, which the Kosovars aint buying because it is not worth giving up their independence. I don't think any country would give up their independence for what Serbia has to offer because it grossly in favour of Serbia not Kosovo. This news article just proves they are not buying what Belgrade has to offer. Re-negotiating Kosovo's status is only in Belgrade's favour not Kosovo's. It is costing Kosovo far too much for What Belgrade is offering. So I realistically ask, what has Belgrade got which will make the Kosovars give up their independence up?

I don't know why people want "new" status talk. When did the first status talks take place?
The so called Rambouillet talks were a joke.

"Lord Gilbert, said in an inquiry by a House committee "I think the terms put to Milošević at Rambouillet were absolutely intolerable; how could he possibly accept them; it was quite deliberate".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rambouillet_Agreement

In other words the albanians and the americans negotiated with themselves and now say there can be no more talks. The fact remains that Kosovo is Serbian territory according to international law. A UDI by the albanians and the americans won't change that. Serbs have the legar right to treat Kosovo anyway the want until they agree to anything else.
Kosovo je Srbija!

What would be different now as comparing to the status negotiations that were conducted under UNSC Special Representative Marti Atthisari? Nothing! In fact Kosova is in an even better position now as it was before the original status talks because it is recognised by 64 countries (some of them most powerful) in the world. So what would Serbia hope to gain from these new negotiations then? Nothing! So, what is the meaning of insisting on new status negotiations? There is none!

Serbia has offered Kosova under the Autonomy formula even less that it had in the former Yugoslav federation, where Serbia had legally and factually no say in Kosovas affairs. So why should it be any different now, when Kosova is already independent?

In any case EU is not going to admit Serbia without having normalised its relations with all its neighbours incl Kosova (See the case of border dispute between Slovenia and Croatia as a reference)!
And please spare me the replicas such as “Serbia will normalise its relations with all its neighbours incl Kosova by integrating Kosova into Serbia and then Serbia into EU” as this is not going to happen!

“the Kosovo government will never agree to negotiations with Belgrade regarding Kosovo’s status. The status of our country is irreversible.”
--
Irreversibly blocked. The status quo remains otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on a daily basis. It is the EU/US pushing for a resolution as bankrolling this failure is very costly. However it costs nothing for Serbia and Russia to maintain the status quo.

Something has to break sooner or later and negotiations will take place. I do understand why Pristina continues to reject negotiations - it will be an admission to independence failing. The truth is that Kosovo is neither independent nor is Pristina in control and this will become more evident as time passes.

Živeli!

what a joke of a "republjik" ...
(raso, 12 January 2010 12:50)

Raso, next time you try to prove us that you speak Albanian do your homework first.
“Republjik” is not a word in Albanian.
Writing Albanian terms using Serbo-Croatian (Latin alphabet - if such a thing exists nowadays) makes no sense.
The correct term in Albanian is “Republikë”.

Ian,
Kosovo Albanians are not being offered things? this is not a competition on who has the most incentives as you have suggested. The case is that Kosovo and Metohija was part of Serbia, a soverign state, it underwent a war with terrorist sepratists, those same terrorists were then backed for US imperialistic goals, those terrorists are now in government.
Can you understand how this is not a product of justice?

(Demi, 12 January 2010 16:48)

I would like you to find the evidense for 900,000 Albanians leaving their homes prior to the implementation of the NATO bombing campaign. This number is greatly exagerated and when compared to 250,000 Serbs leaving out of a total of 500,000 which were living their prior to 1998 it is completely relative. However as you will note, the 900,000 Albanians have returned and the 250,000 Serbs are yet to return.

I wonder if you would like to clarify on your claim that the KLA was created to protect Albanians? When it is very evident that it carried out the majority of its actions offensively against Serbian security forces, as this is widely documented. The KLA is even documented to have turned against Albanians who refused to support them. It also resided on the US (thats your chief supporter)terrorism groups charts at No.3 which is an impressive feat for such a small force.
There has been no occupation of Kososo since 1912 since there was no major expansion of Serbian peoples or military to the region in this time, unless there is a secret conspiracy which you would like to inform me of which even Albanian sources dont seem to acknowledge. To inform you of your "own" history the treaty of London was signed in the following year by Albanians and Serbs alike; infact spliting what was the Vilayet of Kosovo between Albania, Serbia and Montenegro.

Also our own government is folding like a cheap suit in front of the rape of Kosova's constitution by the EULEX. It looks grim but,NO, thanks.
(Bekim, 12 January 2010 17:05)
--
Bekim, you forgot to mention the EU created prison camp "Kosova" and issued useless passports to keep ethnic Albanians secure and "independent" ;)

However, negotiations are not up to you or Demi, Ian or anyone else here against them. When the US tells Pristina to negotiate then Pristina will do it. The deal will have already been made and the rest will be just formalities. It is pointless arguing otherwise.

Also, using made up propaganda as some excuse not to negotiate just wont cut it. If you haven't noticed, it looks like lots of back room deals are being made. Why did Serbia lodge a counter claim against Croatia just before elections and now Croatia is hinting at dropping its genocide case? Do you really believe the ICJ case will lead to a dead end? I can tell you, it will lead to negotiations... wait and see my friends.

Kosovo is not a country but a mafia run wasteland that will never amount to what we in the West considers civilized nation. It's a temporary experiment to see if the west can build a nation out of waste.
(Jack, 12 January 2010 17:13)

You EULEX workers should really lets us know from which country you hail so that we Albanians can respond accordingly. You shouldn't hide behind "international worker" , personally I consider you the lowest of the low. So go back to the hole you came from and point fingers at minorities and immigrants in your country we have enough problems with Tadiq and Co trying to start a religious war here.

you allow Albanians to cut off pieces of territory -you destroy world order aka UN

LOL

the "irreversable" status will hardly survive the 2nd year ...

and that without the only possible way to liberate occupied parts of kosmet: force ...

what a joke of a "republjik" ...
(raso, 12 January 2010 12:50)

The second year is closing in a month and the budget is 1.46 billion euro ($2.1 billion) which is six percent higher than the previous year, so what survivel are you laughing at?

Ian, what is this, amnesia every time a new news topic comes up?
I answered why last time.

Repeating your opinion, ignoring somebody who answers, is not a sign of intelligence.

Kosovo and Metohija is still part of Serbia and it will be proved by the International Court of Justice, how do I know this? Because Serbia would not have invested the huge amount of money in creating the case if they did not believe with certainty that they would win; they had no obligation to take the case to the ICJ.
What is revealing about the Kosovo Albanians and Western nations is that they did not try to legitimise Kosovan Independance with their own case as soon as they had declared independance and realised they were not entering the UN. Why? Mainly because they knew that it would not be possible and that it was not necissary because they had no interest in the rule of law and only cared for recieving funds and creating a country as fast as possible regardless of an ill concieved basis. Surely this is a demonstration of the complete faugulance of the country and their place in modern society? Essentially Kosovo is a criminal state by all accounts; it was created by illegal bombing campaign of a soverign nation, it's leaders are criminals and it's current economic basis comes from criminal activites.

Not really what I would call a solid basis for a country.

However all of this could be reveresed and Kosovo Albanian credibility could be returned if new talks were engaged in and all wishes were forfilled but because the US is sitting behind them they have no reason to i.e they will recieve everything they want from their "masters" and the Serbs are unable to influence the situation as they are not in a commanding position. However as we have seen in history the tables tend to change and I dont think the current attitude of Kosovo ALbanians will benefit them when there is nobody sitting behind them and Serbia decides that it will impose it's rule of law.

This is what one would call poor longevity. I naive aproach which Albanians will no doubt regret.

Why you're rushing this way? We have a lot of time. Maybe you're afraid of the icj response that everybody knows that will be neutral.Neutral for my k.Albos brother means victory, for the simple fact that, to have new recognitions will be much easier for them and the road to the UN will be much faster. Now you're plan B is at least to get a piece of kosovo and at the same time to have kosovo problem solved so your eu membership would not be that problematic. The serbs are getting very nervous since the very begining of this year, thats a sign of something going wrong. And you're losing day after day you bargaining position. Every step that Serbia makes towards the eu means a much softer position on kosovo,that means less pressure on the kosovo institution and eulex. Every step forward for serbia in the eu is a step forward for kosovo too. The eu membership of Serbia is a very good thing for Kosovo. The faster the eu membership of serbia the faster kosovo get stronger. Serbia is as the french say in a "cul de sac". Now with this last proposition for new negotiation you confirm that now you are consciuos that kosovo is gone, but you want to gain something. And you know that the next condition for you to make another step to EU is "DIALOGUE WITH PRISTINA".You want to transform this dailogue table in a negotiation one. But you guys have to understand that the train is not more aviable in that old "station" of yours. To catch the train you must search to a new station. Is all about being punctual.
P.s.-Now how to be punctual:
If you're battling chronic lateness, there is hope. According to the experts, you can avoid procrastination and tardiness by changing your habits and tweaking your routines. Here are some things you can do to turn lateness into punctuality: "RECOGNISE KOSOVO"

Cheers....

Wow Ment, you are pretty much spot on. And a well thought out post from the Albanian side.

What you are describing is pretty much "more than autonomy, less than independence". Serbia will control those parts of Kosovo under its influence (about 40%) and ethnic Albanians theirs (60%). Serbia will lift any trade restrictions while conditions for the return of refugees and the displaced are put in place.

The idea of independence will be a thing of the past and will hopefully not matter. This doesn't have to be a black and white issue. We will have to live with shades of grey and create something new for Kosovo.

I don't expect Kosovo Albanians to lose anything they already have, like passports and diplomatic relations but a UN seat and independence will not be on offer.

The important thing here is freedom of movement and safety for all. Peace and prosperity will be in sight!

Jack, I don't know who you are, but me being a western, I must say that I have to do nothing with you nor your comment. But, I think you are a serb, trying to make things look a bit better for you.

I'm German by the way, from Saarbrücken.
So offer the hand of reconciliation to KS Albanians, and live happily in peace, but you must now forget Kosovo and move on, you had it once but you didn't handle it well, now its time to say good bye.


Tschüss,

Thomas

>>I cannot believe that there are people in this forum that still believe that Kosovo will accept another forced marriage with Serbia.
Not after the last one.
Not today, not tomorrow,.... never again.
Wake up people, honestly!!!
(casual_visitor, 12 January 2010 18:46)>>

thank you, casual visitor. well said. and i am so pleased that so many of our albanian colleagues continue to participate in this forum. sometimes it really seems hopeless and so one-sided. but not today. today my frnds are out in force :)) Yeah!!

as for the issue of negotiations: i keep repeating -- we (certainly I) are in favor of negotiations. i agree -- there is much to discuss, never-ending problems, tensions, challenges, distrusts, real and manufactured. the list goes on forever, and these are matters we do need to bring up. i do agree; i am genuinely pro-negotiation.

of course, it has nothing to do w our independence -- who is still imagining such things? it is just a widespread illusion. and that the US would demand the people of kosovo/a revisit that bizarre, "more than autonomy/less than independence" schtick?? that is utterly bizarre.

as to some of these self-id'd internationals, you have no integrity and need to quit immediately. try to get home, and start taking some courses in ethics. morals, something. anything. your evil is quickly destroying the reputation of all us intls, and i for one have had enough of you. JUST LEAVE.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Talks yes, about lots of things; you know the things that states discuss.
Status talks, never.
That boat has sailed people.
By all means, you can wait for the boat unfortunately it is not coming back to collect the remaining passengers.
The boat has already reached the destination; we all know that the destination was.
Save yourselves valuable time, hustle and disappointment. … Take another boat.
I cannot believe that there are people in this forum that still believe that Kosovo will accept another forced marriage with Serbia.
Not after the last one.
Not today, not tomorrow,.... never again.
Wake up people, honestly!!!

What about discussing the form of independence? Isn't that status talks?
(Mister, 12 January 2010 16:40)

Serbia is bound by its own Constitution not to discuss that. Under your own laws and Constitution anyone who attempts to discuss anything with the word independence on it is committing treason.
Constitutionally Serbia cannot offer anything but autonomy. Constitutionally what that autonomy actually means is decided only by the Serbian parliament. Based on this alone anyone who is not blind and has the ability to think logically can see that Serbia cannot offer anything but autonomy, whatever that autonomy means can be decided solely by Serbian parliamentarians. That is a non-starter, since the greatest thing Serbia can offer Constitutionally is a status that is worse than pre 1999. I should also add that Kosova Albanians were excluded from voting for such a Constitution that attempts to decide their fate and their daily lives. So based on these actions, based on the fact that Constitutionally Serbia cannot offer anything more that didn't exist in the past prior to the war, and based on the fact that Kosova already has much much more than Serbia can ever offer there are no incentives whatsoever for us Albanians to turn into the table and talk about status just so that we can help Serbia get into the EU. It doesn't work like that. Since Serbia ever since 1999 and even earlier than that has tried every way possible to make our lives miserable in every way possible way, and hamper every progress we have tried to make I think it is only reasonable for us not only to not foolishly talk about status but put some pressure on Serbia by creating difficulties and possibly delaying her from joining the EU due to the bad relations she has with Kosova.
I know that plenty of you would disregard Kosova putting pressure as something nonsensical but then again you've disregarded what we can do in the past as well. That hasn't worked out so well.

All Serbia has to do is wait and watch as the years roll by and nothing happens in Kosovo.

Just wait and see! And just some arguments to explain you:yesterday we had just serbian repression,today we have rebuild our houses,restablished a normal life without fears and crimes,today we believe that every day is better than the day before,despite what you think,every day we add something to our well being.
If you think that we will let you come again,unprotected and unarmed as yesterday... ...

"Status" may not be the operative word, but acknowledging current de facto realities may be a practical way forward, and a bitter pill both Belgrade and Pristina will have to swallow. Pristina won't put "status" on the table, but it might be willing - or even resigned - to put internal authority up for debate; and that may very well be a bi-zonal confederation of Serb and Albanian components within a united Kosovo that is under the executive authority of the EU. Albanians keep their "capital" at Pristina and Serbs finally have "theirs" at KM acknowledged. There's no way all of Kosovo can be reincorporated into the rest of Serbia, but there's no way Kosovo can ever be a "functioning state" as its proponents want to claim. While the entire region remains in limbo, ordinary people suffer, the economy grinds to a halt, and those who can leave will buy themselves a one-way ticket out. Hardly the halcyonic scenario some utopianists had in mind when they envisioned Kosovo as a stable, multiethnic land of sunshine and rainbows.

I think that i have a best solution about your problem being solved SSP.
What about we let all Serbs go back in (holly land) Kosovo.
And K.Albanians take over all Serbian land.
SWOP and will be peace in BALLKAN STATES FOREVER.

So go back to the hole you came from and point fingers at minorities and immigrants in your country we have enough problems with Tadiq and Co trying to start a religious war here.
(Bekim, 12 January 2010 19:39)

Eventhough I find Jack comments a bit too far out, yours is even a step lower, which certainly will help nobody particularly not the bad image k-a are having abroad.

I would suggest you to read instead what Ment or Mike wrote, it will maybe help you to be more objective and less hyper nationalist!

Yes, a lot of us foreign blogers were and still are against the illegal UDI because it was based on lies and dirty politics, it doesn't make us anti k-a but again, reading blogers like you and other well know nationalists doesn't give us any confort as to the type of mentality you are distributing here.

Spiting on Eulex and other intl organizations doesn't help you at all and in any case they would not ask your or your "politicians" advice, you wanted it, you got it and now you have to live with it, including with all the strings that are attached around you.

Do not spit on the hand that feeds you it might slap you..

Recognition from obscure countries, welfare donations from the West (yawn). Whil nothing is happening K alb politicians are stealing money left and right. Time is on Serbias side.
Hey all you multiculturalistas, English is the language of government, business and education in your patron USA, German in Germany French in France. As this is a model for a freedom loving tolerant society so Serbia should make Serbian the national language for government and education.
If you don't like it. As the Americans say, "this is America (substitute Serbia) Love it or Leave it!"

Irreversibly blocked. The status quo remains otherwise we wouldn't be discussing this on a daily basis. It is the EU/US pushing for a resolution as bankrolling this failure is very costly. However it costs nothing for Serbia and Russia to maintain the status quo.

Something has to break sooner or later and negotiations will take place. I do understand why Pristina continues to reject negotiations - it will be an admission to independence failing. The truth is that Kosovo is neither independent nor is Pristina in control and this will become more evident as time passes.

Živeli!
(Zoran, 12 January 2010 15:37)

It seems you serbs have figured out everything, where do we Albanians sign? I mean we have no future, independence blocked, EU blocked because of religion, incompetent EULEX, KFOR that is not guarding Kosova's borders but only churches and not even electricity is working. Also our own government is folding like a cheap suit in front of the rape of Kosova's constitution by the EULEX. It looks grim but,NO, thanks.

It is better to die on your feet than to live on your knees... That's why I think you can keep your kind offer of negotiations.
Btw: If the Serbian side is so sure about being on the winning side: Why the heck would you want to negotiate???

P.S.: Just a bit off topic since he will sooner or later add his "wisdom": Jason, I have been following your comments for quite a while and I agree that you certainly have the right to have a differing opinion, well the same right Benedict Arnold or Martin J. Monti had...

Well, no deal means that 1244 will still be valid. Meaning Kosovo is a UN governed province of Serbia.
(Ron, 12 January 2010 13:22)

While declaring independence, Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244 since such resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory.

I understand Serbia's desire to re-open status negotiations. Most countries in this situation would probably do the same.
Same goes for the Kosovo Albanian side in insisting that the status negotiations are a closed chapter.

The reality in the ground is as follows:

1) 1999 - 2006 was a lost decade (minus a couple of years). Serbia largely ignored Kosovo as the "West's" problem. Kosovo Albanians were resigned to being ruled by UN Administration and for the most part forgot Belgrade existed.

2) 2006 - 2007 both sides decide to wake up and get into "fox got its tail wet, fox didn't get its tail wet" negotiations, full of the theatrics and no substance.

3) 2008 - Kosovo declares independence and Belgrade tries everything it can to undermine it.

4) Serbia probably still has outstanding arrest warrants on a number of KLA commanders who very likely hold positions of leadership in Kosovo.

Against such a list of "accomplishments" towards normality, I think the only realistic approach is to, as Mike mentioned earlier, agree to disagree on the status for the foreseable future.

In the mean time, from the Serb perspective, Belgrade can quietly drop most of the retaliatory measures it's taken so far in areas of economy, trade and education. I realize the knee-jerk reaction among a number of the posters would be to interpret that as Belgrade giving in, but in reality, Serbia does gain in terms of international reputation and business (it already has trade surpluses with Albania and it would probably have it with Kosovo as well for a while).

From the Kosovo Albanian perspective, once Serbia becomes less of a bogeyman, the local population can start judging their leaders not as ex-KLA heroes, but by "what have you done for me lately" criteria. Hopefully the pragmatic politicians will do better in elections and any heroes-turned-crooks will be booted out of politics (naturally, EU/US pressure will be key in the fight against corruption).

In the near term, I believe both Kosovo Serbs and Albanians would benefit from a reduction in tensions and that's the whole point.

Finally, with a "slow" approach based on goodwill rather than forced status talks, the economies and politics of the area could well become more tightly integrated and old hostilities take a backseat. Things may even become so good that any future status/territorial splits/whatever negotiations may turn into an "agreement among gentlemen" rather than agreements at gunpoint (the EU/US/local electorate gunpoint) that both sides are likely to resent.

(Mister, 12 January 2010 16:40)

Try telling that to Belgrade who violated UNSCR 1244 by unilaterally saying that Kosovo was Serbia's province in their 2006 constitution. Did Kosovo ever give it's permission to say it was Serbia's province? No. Didn't UNSCR 1244 say that both sides must agree? Yes it did and Serbia's constitution violated this.

You can do whatever with areas Serbs live as long as we can do whatever with the areas Albanians live. When you guys get that then like us you can move on as well.
(johny, 13 January 2010 02:59)
--
johny, even though you have worded your response using language of disagreement, I think we essentially agree on core matters.

Serbians control their areas while ethnic Albanians control their own. Everyone leaves each other alone while there is freedom of movement throughout the whole territory. Status is defined by each country, those that recognise it and those that don't. Ethnic Albanians are essentially independent within their own entity while Serbians remain loyal to their state - Serbia.

This is what I call more than autonomy, less than independence. It is the path to peace and prosperity. Kosovo Albanains are likely to have a special status within the EU while Kosovo Serbians will be members as part of Serbia.

Personally, I believe this agreement has already been made. We just need to go through the motions to make it so. Some of the ultra nationalists here will just need to eat humble pie.

You gave some suggestions, which the Kosovars aint buying because it is not worth giving up their independence. I don't think any country would give up their independence for what Serbia has to offer because it grossly in favour of Serbia not Kosovo. This news article just proves they are not buying what Belgrade has to offer. Re-negotiating Kosovo's status is only in Belgrade's favour not Kosovo's. It is costing Kosovo far too much for What Belgrade is offering. So I realistically ask, what has Belgrade got which will make the Kosovars give up their independence up?
(Ian, UK, 12 January 2010 15:33)

Ian, your attitude reminds me very much of your Protestant Unionist brethern in Northern Ireland. For years they proscrastinated, said "No Surrender", "No" to talks, "No" to power sharing, No to this, No to that, Paisley even mouthing off "Never, never, never", organised strikes, riots, pogroms etc. but at the end of the day they had to give in and accept reality. They had to accept peace and the need to not only talk but also share power with their Catholic neighbours.

Thats the position that Pristina will find themselves in soon enough and will have to accept. The current status quo is not feasable in the medium term so a negotiated solution must be found, either in the terms Belgrade is offering, a Daytonised Kosovo that Mike has suggested or a partition, but either way, the Snake and Sejdiu can only beat their chests for so long until the locals start focusing on the bread and butter issues.

Ian never mind about your opinion as to what the Kosovars aint buying (for the record I'll wager that at least some of the recommendeds for my post came from Albanians and some of the thumbs down came from Serbs) - don't hide behind public opinion. What is your opinion about what is right?
What is your opinion about what would be best for the future of Kosovo, for all the people living in Kosovo? This might be a nice point to admit your interest in the Kosovo issue, whilst we are being honest and upfront.

BTW since when is does attendence of negotiations mean you have to give up what you have - there is no such condition, you created that yourself.

You speak of costs - Belgrade's position is harming the Kosovo economy to the scale of tens of millions of euros per year and that is a conservative figure. I take no pleasure from this.

And as for these newspaper articles, again many of these newspapers (and analysts) are close to political parties who don't want status talks for their own vested reasons. They have their 'businessmen' and actually they don't want foreign investment, international norms etc. Is is so hard to imagine trying to help the people improve their lives, despite their rulers?

In my opinion (I'm not going to hide behind the opinion of majority of Serbs) attending talks would be the start of a solution to the Kosovo issue and the beginning of normalisation of society there and the normalisation of the Kosovo question in Serbia. This will allow Kosovo to develop and allow both political systems to mature and the issue of Kosovo will not be able to be abused by politicians keen to draw away from the fact that they are unable to bring peace and prosperity to their people.

Surely we all want that and no I'm not suggesting that a set of talks will produce milk and honey but they will be the beginning of something like normal life. What we have in Kosovo and Serbia to some extent is not normal life for ordinary people...

Vuk, you make some claims that you, yourself, know are not true. Here's a breakdown:

1) You claim: "Serbia would not have invested the huge amount of money in creating the case if they did not believe with certainty that they would win; they had no obligation to take the case to the ICJ."

Answer: Wrong! Serbia deemed this as an "obligation" to its people, the people of Serbia, to show (and please them) that they haven't given up on Kosovo.

2) You claim: "Surely this is a demonstration of the complete faugulance of the country and their place in modern society? Essentially Kosovo is a criminal state by all accounts; it was created by illegal bombing campaign of a soverign nation, it's leaders are criminals and it's current economic basis comes from criminal activites.

Answer: Wrong! Serbia is that country that has not proven it deserves a place in modern society. Serbia is responsible for many wars in the Ballkans. The bombing of NATO was NOT illegal. It saved a people from genocide committed by Serbia.

3) You claim: "I dont think the current attitude of Kosovo ALbanians will benefit them when there is nobody sitting behind them and Serbia decides that it will impose it's rule of law."

Answer: Wrong! Serbia will not ever again impose it's criminal and destructive way over Kosovo. The attitude of people like yourself is what is not beneficial to your own country, Serbia. Rather than face facts, you claim things that Serbia, in fact, is guilty of. Serbia has a bad history in Europe. That is why your country has not made progress in European Integrations. Think about it!

Ian "UK" - You claim to be from the UK so I assume you had a decent level of education. But it's not inconceivable that you might be illiterate. If so, then please find someone who can explain the text from UNSCR 1244, namely:

"Reaffirming the commitment of all Member States to the sovereignty and territorial integrity of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia and the other States of the region, as set out in the Helsinki Final Act and annex 2,

Reaffirming the call in previous resolutions for substantial autonomy and meaningful self-administration for Kosovo"

This would seem to indicate a couple of things to me 1)Serbia's territorial integrity (don't waste time saying Yugoslavia and Serbia are different - at the UN they aren't) is reaffirmed, and 2) Kosovo Albanians are entitled to extensive autonomy, NOT independence.

But, as we've all seen, the Albanians and their allies have tried to twist International law for their own ends, Albanian nationalism and US and EU strategic interests. This wouldn't be the first time the EU and US flouted international law, e.g. Iraq, and I'm sure it won't be the last!

So Ian, having read the above, since when has Serbia not been allowed to declare Kosovo as it's province and how exactly does it violate UNSCR 1244? You must be some legal genius because that's the first time I've heard anybody declare that Serbia recognising Kosovo as it's province violates UNSCR 1244, but then again you could just be ignorant and illiterate. As the US and it's allies haven't used your argument at the ICJ, i'll have to assume it's the latter.

icj1 "While declaring independence, Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244 since such resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory." Could you provide me with the specific part of the document which backs up your position?

Roberto The Albanian - "as to some of these self-id'd internationals, you have no integrity and need to quit immediately." Hypocracy of the highest order. Are you ashamed of your heritage/ethnicity? adding comments on this forum pretending to be "an international" instead of an ethnic Albanian shows a lack of integrity and a level of cowardice of the highest order. At least your fellow Albanians have the guts to admit who they are. What would the residents of your new country call you - a yellow belly.

"You gave some suggestions, which the Kosovars aint buying because it is not worth giving up their independence. I don't think any country would give up their independence for what Serbia has to offer because it grossly in favour of Serbia not Kosovo. This news article just proves they are not buying what Belgrade has to offer. Re-negotiating Kosovo's status is only in Belgrade's favour not Kosovo's. It is costing Kosovo far too much for What Belgrade is offering. So I realistically ask, what has Belgrade got which will make the Kosovars give up their independence up?
(Ian, UK, 12 January 2010 15:33)"

Do you really think there is no benefit to resolving status issues. You will find in time that Pristina will talk to Belgrade about status. When that will be I don't know but a dispute cannot be resolved by one side.

What I do know is that demanding total capitulation never works. In this case it will just fuel nationalists at a time when Serbia is at a junction - you just need to read some comments on here. At present there is a democratic, pro European government who I believe have the will and ability to face the past, compromise and develop good relations. No one is asking K-Albanians to come under Serbian rule. That can only happen by force and the best way to increase the likelihood of that in the future is to continue with unilateral moves in the absence of any discussions.

What about discussing the form of independence? Isn't that status talks?

Responding to Malcom X here. Not the real one cause that one has been dead for decades.

You said the following:
"but why don't you sit at the table and formalise this fact and move on in a meaningful way rather than make silly proclamations that you have moved on? moved on to where? your leaders created a situation where they can't negotiate with belgrade and half of the world doesn't have any respect for kosovo which remains not a country but a protectorate. even plenty of serbian nationalists on this site say they would be satisfied with serbia's formal sovereignity over serb enclaves and holy sites and would let the rest go. this is more or less "facts on the ground" at the moment. just make that official in a negotiated deal and that's it. "

1. Where have you been the last 3-4 years? Have you bothered taking a look at the Serb constitution, lately? If not, go read it again. I'll help you a little bit. All Serbs are bound by their own Constitution not to negotiate anything other than autonomy and what autonomy means is only in the hands of the Serb parliamentarians. Do you get this? Are you clear on what this means? Do you understand what that means? I'll help you a little bit again. It means that any Serb who attempts to negotiate anything else but autonomy is committing treason towards the state of Serbia. It means Serbia is denied by its very own constitution to negotiate anything other than autonomy. It means Serbia cannot negotiate anything else. It means the Serbian parliament can one day imprison every single Albanian politician, dismember its institutions and still call it autonomy because it alone has the authority to do so. It also means that it has been institutionalized that Albanians can be denied the right to vote since the very adoption of such Constitution was done by denying those you call Serbia's citizens the right to vote. As a consequence it also means that there will be no Albanian on the face of this earth that will sit on a table with you to legitimize Belgrade's wish to have any type of sovereignty, be it formal, informal or in name only over any Albanian individual in Kosova. None, zero, nada, zilch. You still haven't got it. Let me be clear so that you and the Serb camp get it. While there might be Albanians there that might want to formalize division along ethnic lines there is no Albanian on this earth that will sit with you to legitimize Serbian sovereignty over any Albanian individual let alone areas and a whole population. Serbian sovereignty, even in name only, over Albanians is a dead, long finished, foregone issue. Once you get this you can also move on.

2.Where we have moved on? We have moved on into a situation where we clearly do not give hoot about what Serbia, Belgrade wants. That is satisfying enough for us.

3. Being a deist and not religious I will not bother entertaining anything that is man-made and called holly. I realize they are important for you but there is no human made thing that is holy in my personal opinion.

4. I would also refrain from talking about world respect whenever Serbia is mentioned. Simply because if Serbia had any world or international respect it wouldn't be barred from flying over certain areas and/or conducting certain activities in certain areas of the country. Respect wise Serbia is in no good condition.


You said:
"the only viable option for kosovo remaining formally a part of serbia is independence in everything but a name. which is again very close to what kosovo will have if it never becomes a un member. in fact, it would be possible for kosovo to be a un member even if it is formally a part of serbia (see ukraine and belarus when they were a part of the soviet union). in every other respect kosovo could be independent and be much more a state than it is now.

i think serbs are not really that delusional about kosovo and a deal along these lines would be acceptable to them. only the most deluded among serbian nationalists want serbia to rule over kosovo albanians again.
(malcolm x, 14 January 2010 12:22)"

1. Again such an option is the only viable option only if you are a Serb or a Serb camp. As you are incapable of seeing the other options. I do not like repeating myself here again but I suggest you educate yourself on the Serb constitution again. Take your time and read it thoroughly. I also suggest you educate yourselves a little bit more on the will of the Albanians. As I stated yesterday; the will to be the guarantors of our own sovereignty is not a capricious idea we invented yesterday. Learn to accept that fact. Again what part of no Serbian sovereignty, be it in name only, over any single Albanian do you guys do not understand. It is crystal clear. That is why we have moved on, and that is why we see no need to bother with Serbia. Again that is why we have moved on.

2. Talking about viable options and special circumstances I also recommend you to see how N. Korea and S. Korea became UN members. So having that in mind and you stating that everything Serbia can offer (which it can't because the Serbia Constitution does not allow it) is what we already have than on what basis is this not a viable option and actually more preferred since again there is no need whatsoever for Serbia and the ties that way continue to be severed?

In love and politics, never say never!...
May God give wisdom to all involved in this, for the sake of the region's future.

best to everybody,
Costel Petre, Timisoara

Ment,

Normally I dont got the whole 'Recommended' button thingy on this forum but in your case, I'll make an exception. Excellent and well thought out point. Johnny, I also enjoyed your comment and I belive that reconciliation and compromise is the only way forward. Easy to say but despite what has happened, I believe it can be done.

Guys, keep the coming.

i for one have had enough of you. JUST LEAVE.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 13 January 2010 06:11)

can i send the same message to you? your posts are intellectually empty and just full of moralising. why don't you just join some church and become a priest or something? or a buddhist monk, since i sense that people like you would have a more positive opinion about that religion?

Yes, a lot of us foreign blogers were and still are against the illegal UDI because it was based on lies and dirty politics, it doesn't make us anti k-a but again, reading blogers like you and other well know nationalists doesn't give us any confort as to the type of mentality you are distributing here.

Spiting on Eulex and other intl organizations doesn't help you at all and in any case they would not ask your or your "politicians" advice, you wanted it, you got it and now you have to live with it, including with all the strings that are attached around you.

Do not spit on the hand that feeds you it might slap you..
(The Swiss, 12 January 2010 22:23)

Let me get this straight. So you are this self-righteous, unbaised westerner who finds him/her self appalled by the injusteces of this world and in great sorrow works hard for a better world which will become poossible only with the rise of Russia and China.

Who are you kidding. Most of the "foreign" blogers here supporting Serbia clearly are biased due to having, in a way or another, direct connection or life experiences with and in Serbia (like urself). Have you ever seen a mass grave full of boddies killed by Serbian thugs and terrorists? Of course not. Your opinion is mostly theoritical, and comes from very comfortable and biased position, what do you know about war and reality?

Oh I forgot your self-denying K-Alb neighbors of your parents, .... I mean since this seems to be pretty much the only experience you have had with Albanians, which apparently is overshadowed by this bad reputation you believe they have in the west.

But I do agree with you though that EULEX and UNMIK should not be seen as hostile by K-Alb, and they are not besides a few rejected Alb who do it out of ignorance.

Serbians control their areas while ethnic Albanians control their own. Everyone leaves each other alone while there is freedom of movement throughout the whole territory. Status is defined by each country, those that recognise it and those that don't. Ethnic Albanians are essentially independent within their own entity while Serbians remain loyal to their state - Serbia.

This is what I call more than autonomy, less than independence. It is the path to peace and prosperity. Kosovo Albanains are likely to have a special status within the EU while Kosovo Serbians will be members as part of Serbia.

Personally, I believe this agreement has already been made. We just need to go through the motions to make it so. Some of the ultra nationalists here will just need to eat humble pie.
(Zoran, 13 January 2010 11:18)

Zoran what you and the Serbs don't seem to understand is this. As far as we are concerned you can call it whatever you want. If you call it more than this and less than that, or heart of this and lung of that, it really does not matter to us. You can find any epithet you want and write it in big red letters in the cover page of your constitution. That has zero importance for us. However what you should also realize is that no Albanian will come sit with you guys on a table and sign on the dotted line on the latest epithet you found for what you guys call as a gray area in Kosova. It seems that that's what you, and your politicians don't seem to grasp. We will not sit with you and give approval to the latest synonym, metaphor, epithet, oxymoron, or hyperbole you finally came up with that you desire to attach to Kosova. On a similar fashion as it has been shown, we have no need, no burning desire, and therefore no rush to get the Serbs to sit on a table with us and get any approval from them regarding what we decide to call and name Kosova. So the problem seems to be that we are fine and more than ok without Serbia's approval, while Serbia is not fine without our approval.
To sum up, speaking personally here and not in the name of others or echoing any policy from Prishtina or Belgrade; freedom of movement yes, free trade yes, Serbs mind their own business, we mind our own business yes. However you and any Serb out there as I said earlier should get it once and for all that neither those like me, nor any of the other ones who are more nationalistic will come and sit on a table with you guys and say yes this is more than autonomy less than independence, yes Kosova is a territory within Serbia. Likewise we do not expect neither those like you, or those more nationalistic than you to come and sit on a table with us and say yes Kosova is an independent state and yes the Serb areas are within the Independent state of Kosova.

Us Albanians are ok with this fact. It seems you Serbs are not ok. So us Albanians are in a position to move on, and we have moved on. While you Serbs are not ok with this and until you are ok with this, as you called it gray area, you will not be able to move on.

Finally I urge you and others to be realistic. Again, there will not be a table sitting where Serbs agree that Kosova is an Independent state or Albanians agree that Kosova is more than autonomous but less than independent. Nobody is expecting this from Serbia and nobody is expecting this from Kosova. Anything else is utopic. Don't wanna burst somebody else's bubble here but even militarily that is not achievable as the last 90 years have showed. Military power against us in the last 90 years only increased our resolve to be independent.

Wow Ment, you are pretty much spot on. And a well thought out post from the Albanian side.

What you are describing is pretty much "more than autonomy, less than independence". Serbia will control those parts of Kosovo under its influence (about 40%) and ethnic Albanians theirs (60%). Serbia will lift any trade restrictions while conditions for the return of refugees and the displaced are put in place.

The idea of independence will be a thing of the past and will hopefully not matter. This doesn't have to be a black and white issue. We will have to live with shades of grey and create something new for Kosovo.

I don't expect Kosovo Albanians to lose anything they already have, like passports and diplomatic relations but a UN seat and independence will not be on offer.

The important thing here is freedom of movement and safety for all. Peace and prosperity will be in sight!
(Zoran, 12 January 2010 21:51)

Zoran under the Serbian Constitution Serbia already has that. So what is your problem? What is the problem you have and why do you want to sit on a table with us if you already have what you want? It is written in black and white in your on Constitution. What seems to be the problem with that? Do you have a problem with your Constitution and the status Kosova has there? Change it, nobody is stopping you. And now that we're used to not being allowed to vote for it do us the honors and change it again just as you wish. Nobody will even attempt to raise a voice. Make up any status you want.

Also Serbia can't offer independence. Independence isn't offered. Can you tell me who offered Serbia its independence? Can you tell me who offered Greece its independence? Nobody offers you independence on a silver platter. Independence is taken and claimed. So now that we cleared that up, rest assured that nobody is expecting Serbia to offer anything it can't offer. Rest assured no Albanian is expecting or even imagining some sort of recognition from Serbia. We are more than ok with this gray status we have right now. Even if its just one state a year that recognizes us we are just fine and dandy. It doesn't matter to us one bit whether Serbia recognizes us or not, or whether it is happy or unhappy about how gray the Kosova issue or the way the status is. We are just fine with it. We are doing our own thing, minding our own matters and moving on. As far as we are concerned we have no open issues. We can live with the way things are. Especially considering how much worse they've been for us in the past. However it seems that Serbia has a problem with this gray area, it has a problem with us minding our own business and doing our own thing, it has a problem with us getting more recognitions even though they claim they don't mean a thing, it has a problem with our diplomatic relations and foreign embassies in Kosova, it has a problem that we have the backing of some of the biggest economies and democracies in the world. What seems to be the problem if in your eyes we are not independent? What seems to be the problem for Serbia whether or not we have the backing of West if you claim you do not want to have anything to do with us? One word is the answer. Expansionism. Things have changed, get used to it. No longer can you hold sovereignty over those you persecute. Not because some imaginary inexistent international law gives you permanent sovereignty over those you persecute, and not because some world wide conspiracy theory against your state. Simply because the social contract that gives you sovereignty over a people has been broken and when a people decides to take sovereignty in their own hands that's it. That is the alpha and the omega. The beginning and the end of all. What your hardcore nationalist found out is that the only way to change that is to get rid of such population. There is no superpower, there is no military, there is no money that can overturn a people's will to be the guarantors of their own sovereignty. It has always been the case it will always be the case. Not with just us but with everyone. The fact that we didn't give up when thousands were murdered and millions were ethnically cleansing should be enough of an indicator that this is not some capricious idea we came up with yesterday but the will, the ideal, and the blood of 2 million people. Until those are living there, independence is the word of the day whether there are foreign boots or not, whether we are occupied or not. It makes no difference. We live for independence and like we have shown have died for it. That's how it is that's how it will always be. Anything, anybody else tells you are fairy tales. These are not the words of an ardent nationalist but the words of the average Joe in the Albanian population. Any unfound dreams you might have that the US or anyone for that matter will say we are now Serbia's property and we agree and sign on the dotted line is just that. Dreams. When the last Albanian in Kosova dies that's when our will for Kosova's independence dies. We had that will for independence prior to Western backing and we have it now. It will always be that way. Now you can either recognize this fact or you can choose to ignore it. Either way we are fine. When I mean you I mean you personally, others in the Serb camp here and your state as well. This is not about territory, this is about people. Personally speaking you can have any areas where Serbs live as long as we have any areas Albanians live. You can do whatever with areas Serbs live as long as we can do whatever with the areas Albanians live. When you guys get that then like us you can move on as well.

Personally, I believe this agreement has already been made. We just need to go through the motions to make it so. Some of the ultra nationalists here will just need to eat humble pie.
(Zoran, 13 January 2010 11:18)

In the context of joining the EU everything will come down to free movement and imaginary borderlines. So I think what you say makes sense.

There is one and only one thing that will make the difference. An army. K-Alb will never and shall never give up their right to form their own armed forces and protect themselves from Serbian attack like the one in 1999. Serbia will never accept that.

This will make K-Alb de-facto independent no matter if you call it more than autonomy less than independence or whatever you want.

Serbia will never rule K-Alb again, I believe we both agree on this, serbs will never march in Kosovo as they did lets say in 1989, but absolutely they must have the right to travel freely just like they do every other european nation.

If you want to call it more than autonomy less than independence that's fine with me. But for right now Kosovo is moving forward creating a fully functional independent state. Brick by brick we will be building it despite the hardship and difficulties Serbia is giving us. You shall never underestimate our resolve. You did this before and you were proven wrong.

When that time comes kosovo Albanians won't be asked for new negotiations for the Kosovo status they will be ordered to negotiate with the Serbia cause nothing is over yet.

So we don't have the status of northern kosovo to talk about? Try to solve it militarily and I guarantee you will lose it forever.
(bganon, 14 January 2010 00:14)


It seems to be working for you in East Kosova cities of Presheva, Bujanovc and Medvegj.

icj1 "While declaring independence, Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244 since such resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory." Could you provide me with the specific part of the document which backs up your position?
(Radoslav, 13 January 2010 11:23)

“Kosovo fully supported resolution 1244”
I was referring to Kosovo’s declaration of independence, paragraph 12.

“resolution requests in practical terms that Serbia renounces this part of its territory”
I was referring to the interpretation of resolution 1244 by Vladislav Jovanovic, the FRY representative to the UN, as it happens that I totally agree with that FRY’s interpretation to the resolution.

The problem on balkan is, that all say the word "never" to often. You fix your statement and can´t change anything it in the future.

Just forget this word!!!!

“as to some of these self-id'd internationals, you have no integrity and need to quit immediately. try to get home, and start taking some courses in ethics. morals, something. anything. your evil is quickly destroying the reputation of all us intls (roberto, 13 January 2010 06:11)”

Roberto, I suggest you take your own advice next time you considering going to my country (Bosnia) to stir up trouble between ethnicities. We don’t need your brand of hate.

'Kosova is an independent state and yes the Serb areas are within the Independent state of Kosova.

Us Albanians are ok with this fact.'

Except that it isn't a fact on the ground is it? You know your position mirrors the Serbian position in the 1990's about no negotiation on autonomy.

Are you going to send troops into North Kosovo as Serbia sent them south?

And are you going to lose the north permanently as a result in the same way you say Serbia lost Kosovo permamently?

So we don't have the status of northern kosovo to talk about? Try to solve it militarily and I guarantee you will lose it forever.

(johny, 13 January 2010 19:41)

No talks over Kosovo = nothing happening in Kosovo. What you guys don’t get is the US is very happy with the status quo; they are only interested in Camp Bondsteel and they don’t give a hoot about the Albanians.

Us Albanians are ok with this fact. It seems you Serbs are not ok. So us Albanians are in a position to move on, and we have moved on.
(johny, 13 January 2010 19:41)

but why don't you sit at the table and formalise this fact and move on in a meaningful way rather than make silly proclamations that you have moved on? moved on to where? your leaders created a situation where they can't negotiate with belgrade and half of the world doesn't have any respect for kosovo which remains not a country but a protectorate. even plenty of serbian nationalists on this site say they would be satisfied with serbia's formal sovereignity over serb enclaves and holy sites and would let the rest go. this is more or less "facts on the ground" at the moment. just make that official in a negotiated deal and that's it.

the only viable option for kosovo remaining formally a part of serbia is independence in everything but a name. which is again very close to what kosovo will have if it never becomes a un member. in fact, it would be possible for kosovo to be a un member even if it is formally a part of serbia (see ukraine and belarus when they were a part of the soviet union). in every other respect kosovo could be independent and be much more a state than it is now.

i think serbs are not really that delusional about kosovo and a deal along these lines would be acceptable to them. only the most deluded among serbian nationalists want serbia to rule over kosovo albanians again.