Daily: Battle for new Kosovo talks in 2010

What has Belgrade got that will make Kosovo give up it's independence and negotiate "status talks"? To them there is nothing to discuss about Kosovo's status as they have already finalised it. That is the way things are.

This is as I expected - a huge push will be made after the ICJ decision for negotiations.
Negotiations for Kosovo has my support.
I would say to Serbs that when this comes don't expect a bed of roses, in the end we will be forced to compromise beyond what we hoped. However, it will still be better for Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo.
To Albanians I say please come to the table, not for the sake of Serbs, but for you own sakes. Trust me when I say that Kosovo's status is seriously impeding foreign investment and regardless of the verdict many companies will refuse to invest because of the status question and that of organised crime (real or imagined). The Serb question is still dominating Kosovo discourse and holding back progress in other areas. If this was solved the people and politicians / media would be forced to focus more on daily issues of living that concern all the people in Kosovo. You should also remember (some of you will know this) that local 'networks' (ie certain politicians with connection to clans) don't want foreign investment in Kosovo because it will harm their control of both business and politics. In other words it is in their interest to keep the situation as it is.

So Ian you are utterly wrong. There are many reasons why (the people of) Kosovo shold negotiate with Serbia, above all self interest.

Instead of hearing the usual rejection from some Albanian posters I'd like to hear real logical, thought out reasons for rejecting talks. How will that benefit the people of Kosovo?

The only way Kosovo will sit and talk with Serbia about status is if Serbia has something to offer which is better than the current situation / status.

So far Serbia has failed miserably in this and I cannot see what they can offer that will make the Kosovan side talk with them. The current status is much better than anything that Serbia can offer.

I know serbs find it difficult to understand, but anything is better than being part of Serbia again.

The only issue still open is the 'North' which in my opinion is still unresolved.

"Status negotiations is what we need as independence is irreversibly blocked."
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No, YOUR EU membership is irreversibly blocked. The French told you las wekk and today the Germans (Wolfgang Ischinger) did. This year it will become official.

So if Serbia wants to move ahead they must please Germany, France, UK and 22 other EU nations. 'Status negotiations' are a pipe dream. They didn't produce anything for 9 years and will not for another 90, Kosova is settled. No more delays from Serbia, any delay is on your EU membership and relationship with US /EU.

You don't have to recognize Kosova but must accept the passports, products and stop supporting the illegal and immoral parallel structures.

Tadic's stunts of provoking Kosovo = Epic fail.

Serbina ICJ failure is being presented to Serbian people with another plan for something else. This must be very insulting for Serbian people.
(Olf, 11 January 2010, 12:27)

What is insulting to the Serbian people is having a closet-Albanian like yourself try and speak about what they do or do not feel.

Congratulations, Jason, you two have made it official?! You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?
(Amer, 11 January 2010, 15:04)

Well, I imagine many Serbs dislike me because I am American, but I would imagine that I would still be more qualified than Olf to try and speak from their perspective - even if he is Olf the slava-attending Albanian.

BTW - I see Roberto snubbed the summit... apparently some of us were to much for him to tolerate being in the same room with?

What has Belgrade got that will make Kosovo give up it's independence and negotiate "status talks"? To them there is nothing to discuss about Kosovo's status as they have already finalised it. That is the way things are.
(Ian, UK, 11 January 2010 10:54)
Ian, according to the posters here, the privilege of watching Serbia represent them with a seat in the UN and the ability to cheer on Serbian athletes at the Olympics is enough to bring Kosovo crawling back.
The truth is there is nothing that Serbia can dangle that will ever restart status talks, other than a negotiated recognition.

In the region, only Romania and Bosnia-Herzegovina have not recognized Kosovo’s unilaterally proclaimed independence...
--
This is a poorly written article.

In the region, Serbia, BiH, Greece and Romania have not recognised Kosovo's UDD. In the world, the overwhelming majority have not recognised it either.

Status negotiations is what we need as independence is irreversibly blocked. If they are ever to begin, it is an admission by ethnic Albanians that independence has failed.

This government is also treading on thin ice so it needs to be careful about balancing between Russia/China and the EU/US.

"I know serbs find it difficult to understand, but anything is better than being part of Serbia again.

The only issue still open is the 'North' which in my opinion is still unresolved.
(nikshala, 11 January 2010, 12:42)"

I'm not Serb but what I find difficult to understand is the inability or unwillingness of K-Albanians to see the importance and benefit of resolving the status issue. It is essential if you want to progress.

For clarity, I cannot see any negotiations that result in the Albanian majority coming under Serbian control or significant influence. It is 2010 and you just don't know what solutions there might be - so why not talk?

Nikshala - An unambiguous decision in Serbia's favour is what would bring Kosovo back to the negotiating table, simply because Kosovo would be a non functioning state - much like it is now. Kosovo wouldn't be able to enter into any international agreements and foreign companies wouldn't invest due to the legal uncertainty. Whilst yourself and other Albanians state that they would prefer to live like this than be a part of Serbia, you are being naieve to believe that you are the masters of your own destiny. We all know that the US and EU are in charge and ultimately it's what they would decide that would decide Kosovo's fate. It would be impossible to imagine that the EU would allow Kosovo to be like a black hole in Europe when ultimately Serbia, BiH, Montenegro, Macedonia and Albania become members.

So if serbia wins it's case Kosovo's status will be negotiated and finalised - whatever the outcome i.e. staying a part of Serbia or becoming independent.

One way or another,this year, I think this will be the beginning of the end of Kosovo's unresolved status - whatever it may be.

"Instead of hearing the usual rejection from some Albanian posters I'd like to hear real logical, thought out reasons for rejecting talks. How will that benefit the people of Kosovo?"
(bganon,

As far as people of Kosovo are concerned negotiations with the Serb side are over. Majority of the world influential countries have recognized Kosovo as an independent state. Kosovo is already a member of the major world financial insitutions. In a couple of years it will eventually be a member of the United Nations --- if not it can always vote in referendum and join in confederate with Albania and thus be represented by Albania. Balkan borders have always shifted since one can remember so yes some countries will make some noise but at the end the the facts in the ground matter most. (Perfect example is Srebrenica before the war mostly populated by moslems now just a sad distant memory)

Serbia and Kosovo have a million reason to sit down and talk. Everyone familiar with the situation knows this but the Serb side has always insisted on certain preconditions before any talks begun. That is why no progress has been made and no progress will be made for as long as Serbia continues to ignore the Albanian institutions in Prishtina.

Kosovo desperately needs Serbia to cooperate but I can bet anything that it will not come at the price of sacrificing independence. Every Kosovar will tell you that they are extremely unhappy with the current corrupt and inefficent goverment but they're still better off then when they were under the Serbian rule.

I think the Serb side is sensing that the Albanian population of Kosovo is very unhappy with the current Kosovo goverment but I assure you that is certainly not a sign that people of Kosovo are ready to accept the Serbian rule.

Kosovars will never, never, never sacrifice independence that is fact that Serbia has to get used to it. It is open to negotiate everything else exept the independence. It is a closed issue.

...or, else I sugest they build a wall between Kosova and Serbia, so nothing goes in or out in both sides. I am all for it,since we may at last both sides can have peace of mind once and for all.
(Kosova-USA, 11 January 2010, 13:40)

Good luck with that. If there was a wall anywhere it would be along the Ibar River and even then I doubt Serbs would go for it. The 3 northern municipalities have been, are, and will remain almost 100% Serbian. I don't know why you guys are trying to hang on and force your way in there to begin with.

Regardless, there will never be a barrier between Serbia proper and Kosovo because you cannot force 98% of an unwilling population to do something against its wished. It has been a disaster in the South in the 1990s and will be more of the same unless you guys get some sense.

The crucial challenge lays in establishing a professional Kosovo government consisting of capable and non criminal people. Corruption and abuse of power are rising steadily. Kosovos foreign policy is a constant blackout, like its power supply. This is backing up Serbias ambition on Kosovo more than they ever expected. Obviously it is not a big challenge for Vuk Jeremic to knock out Mr.Hyseni, but the last one doesn't even start fighting. Ergo Kosovo is hanging in the air without any good perspective and Serbia is tottering between reformist modern policy with an EU-future or complaisant, populist backward slogans about Kosovo. A strong Kosovo government could create facts, which even Serbia would count with and finally accept them.

"American people are for most part decent and want to do the honourable thing. The problem is that because of so much rubbish churned out there against the Serbs, they may not know what the right thing is.
A friend is ALWAYS welcome."
(Peggy)

-- Now you're just making me blush :P

Thats right. 2010: Back to the table Serbo-Albanians. Know your place And get ready to have the RUS-controled EU pressure you. First Spain, the GER & Italy who are on their way to have their economies turned into a Russian appendage.Your state has failed, 1/d of KiM is out of your control, EULEX is an arm of MUP & thats left is to weaken your pistol & hunting-rifle powered KPS.

'What is insulting to the Serbian people is having a closet-Albanian like yourself try and speak about what they do or do not feel.
(Jason, 11 January 2010 13:10) '

Congratulations, Jason, you two have made it official?! You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?

Nikshala: "So far Serbia has failed miserably in this and I cannot see what they can offer that will make the Kosovan side talk with them. The current status is much better than anything that Serbia can offer."

Firstly, it is the international community who will strongly support reopened negotiations as they recognise it's the only way forward.

Especially after the complete sham of the last 'negotiations' where one side was told from the beginning that they could have everything they wanted and would not have to make any compromise (really shortsighted move).

Secondly, the current 'status' as you put it, is being funded by other nations and propped up by international institutions. Against a backdrop of corruption there is no hope of taking off the trainer wheels for decades, if ever (and I don't mean that as an insult in any way). That is costly and impractical for the international community.

The government in Pristina needs to change and move on from the old KLA school. With a modern leadership and an open mind, I think that Belgrade and Pristina could actually build a positive future for the people living in Kosovo. One which they would both be happy with.

And Ian, UK, your ideas are based on pre millennium pseudo-intellectual garb from sources such as The Guardian.

I understand that it's nice to be popular, and am glad to see that Santa increased your computer hours, but until you try to feed to your family in unimaginable cold with no work or money, you can't really champion the greatness of Kosovo 'independence'.

Have you even been to that part of the world ever at all? Have you ever even met anyone from that part of the world apart from the two geezers your Dad once introduced you to?

Words come easier than facing the cold with kids and no prospects. Just imagine Yorkshire even colder and at its most depressing multiplied by 20. Oh, and that you had to pay your own bills.

Talks? Nearly two years of talks brought no results. The only talks could be about the Kosovar missing in Serbia proper...maybe a negotiated solution where we give up the north for Presheva Valley (Bujanoc & Medvegj) and our rightful recognition from Serbia. Of course, that will never happen.

Who wouldn't want to have talks with the current clowns in Belgrade?

So Belgrade is in panic to find a speedy solution with Kosovo. Sorry I thought Kosovo would starve without Serbia's recognition, what just happend? And what happed to "no need to recognize Kosovo to enter EU"? I mean we are all aware Kosovo wont enter EU anytime soon and as such we are in no hurry to accept any solution which isnt in favour for our own citizens, state and our territorial integrity so you guys are aware this will only lead to recognition and nothing els to be asked from Serbia. Oh and UNSC wont pass a new resolution no matter how much Russian or Chines officials try, you know our allies too have this thing, what was it called again, oh yeah "VETO". I dont even need to mention who the strong ones will come out in history books.

A bit bold for Belgrade to call for new negotiations even before the ICJ concludes its review. Perhaps they know something we don't or they're planning on preempitve damage control?

Looking at all the facts and figures, I'm still of the opinion the ICJ will designate Kosovo a status neutral entity (basically coming right back to what Ischinger was proposing 3 years ago). While official status talks probably won't be on the table, we can assume "talks" would be primarily between Belgrade and EULEX, and not Pristina (at least while the current leadership is at the helm).

The major sticking block is the United States. If Belgrade can get Washington off its back and truly hand Kosovo to the EU, Belgrade is in a far better negotiating position. If the US remains staunchly supportive of anything Pristina wants, such talks will be fruitless because the Albanians will feel no need to negotiate.

I agree nearly 100% with bganon (as I frequently do) that even in light of new talks, Belgrade's going to have to make some serious sacrifices - the most serious being probably a recognition that Kosovo is indefintely under the control of some international representation while making technical agreements with said representation of having a more visible presence in the 6 - 8 Serb-dominant enclaves.

In any event, all of this is speculation and I will simply repeat my 2010 wish I shared with Amer yesterday: if both sides "agree to disagree", stay in their respective spheres of influence and don't do anything to disrupt the other side, I'll be jumping for joy and breaking out the moonshine.

And that would be cause to celebrate at our Kafana Summit.

The only way Kosovo will sit and talk with Serbia about status is if Serbia has something to offer which is better than the current situation / status.
(nikshala, 11 January 2010 12:42)
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Fortunately, it's not up to you to decide or Ian or anyone else living comfy in the West. It will ultimately be a decision for the people living in Kosovo to accept.

The West cannot deliver anything more than Serbia is offering. Independence is blocked while Serbia can also offer lasting peace and prosperity.

Ethnic Albanians need proper politicians that will help the province achieve a better future instead of keeping everyone stuck in the dead-end past.

There is no alternative to negotiations while the status quo is not sustainable and everyone agrees with that.

The only negotiation that will take place between Serbia and Kosova is for the North of Ibar region. If Serbia wants it they must exchange it for the Presheva region or Albania and Kosova join in one state.

>You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?
(Amer,

Jason spells better. Speaks better? Unlike the other one he certainly sounds like someone I would drink with although I think it would end badly by 4 am sometime. But all in all. None of you speak for Serbs. You’re not Serbs. You dont even know Serbs.
And you run along now.
(Tabalija, 11 January 2010 19:43)

Now Tabalija speaks for Jason, sometime Jason for Tabalija. I wonder if is the same person, but with identity crises at hand?

Serbina ICJ failure is being presented to Serbian people with another plan for something else. This must be very insulting for Serbian people.
Anyhow, I see this plan as another way of preventing some of the countries from recognising Kosovo's Independence.

After ICJ plan, this plan seems to be vague.

Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed. 2010-2011 will be the Years of the Serbs - Serbia wins ICJ Kosovo ruling, RS becomes independent, Serbia wins genocide lawsuit against croatia, Djukanovic is brought to justice. Serbia wins World Cup??? probably no.

Well, I imagine many Serbs dislike me because I am American, but I would imagine that I would still be more qualified than Olf to try and speak from their perspective - even if he is Olf the slava-attending Albanian.

BTW - I see Roberto snubbed the summit... apparently some of us were to much for him to tolerate being in the same room with?
(Jason, 11 January 2010 15:35)

You're wrong Jason. I and I am sure many other Serbs dislike the loud and obnoxious American (your government and some people there especially) not the average American.

American people are for most part decent and want to do the honourable thing. The problem is that because of so much rubbish churned out there against the Serbs, they may not know what the right thing is.

A friend is ALWAYS welcome.

Talks? Nearly two years of talks brought no results. The only talks could be about the Kosovar missing in Serbia proper...maybe a negotiated solution where we give up the north for Presheva Valley (Bujanoc & Medvegj) and our rightful recognition from Serbia. Of course, that will never happen.

Who wouldn't want to have talks with the current clowns in Belgrade?
(KOSOVARi, 11 January 2010 20:20)

Talks brough no results, because K-Albanians have unrealistic demands. Let's back to reality - Kosovo will be never "independent".

Or, else I sugest they build a wall between Kosova and Serbia, so nothing goes in or out in both sides.
(Kosova-USA, 11 January 2010 13:40)
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Or do you mean building a wall through Kosovo since we are in control of 1/3 of the territory?

Some poeple, not worth mention them, criticize others for something silly while themselves are doing the same thing in the same post. Isnt that ironic and pathetic.

As for the negotiations, now since Kosovo is Independent there are many things to discuss with Serbia, startingf from missing people, more than 2000 K-Alanians, economic, cultural and heritage, law and order and diplomatic ties. Everything cna be discussed only as two countries with no intergrity over their borders.

I still do not have any logical reasons why talks should not begin.
(bganon, 11 January 2010 19:35)

First of all I want to make sure we are only talking about reasons for rejecting any status negotiations. Because Kosovo government has been willing and is willing to talk to the Serbian side for any negotiations that are of technical matter and would benefit the citizens of both countries.

I am not sure what your criteria for a rational reason are, but I’ll make an attempt to give you a few. I am sure there are more:

1. The outcome of the negotiations is already pre-determined by the Serbian side: anything but independence and Kosovo’s is nothing but independence. So no matter what there is a fundamental disagreement between the two that no negotiations, especially no speedy negotiations recommended by the Serbian gov’t, will be able to resolve this fundamental issue. Only a recommended solution is feasible in this case.
2. The 98-99 conflict in Kosovo has proved once again that the Serbian government was and is not concerned about the people of Kosovo (especially Albanians) but only for the land itself. The conflict and the planned ethnic cleansing was state organized, it wasn’t just some militia or a sect of the government. These were elected people of the Serbian government who did this. How is Kosovo ever going to trust Serbian government that they won’t do the same thing again? There is no guarantee and therefore there is no going back to Serbian rule. We had autonomy and that was taken away from us, there is nothing that will guarantee that the same thing won’t happen again in the future.
3. Up to this point the Serbian government has been successful in convincing their own people that the EU integration process and Kosovo status are two different issues and can be dealt with in parallels. In other words you can still ‘keep’ Kosovo and join the EU. Unfortunately that’s not the case as this article shows. Serbia is interested and must improvee its relations with Kosovo gov’t. because the majority of EU countries will not allow Serbia to join the EU without improving the relations with the government of Kosovo. So the way I see it, it is Serbia in a more dire need to resolve the Kosovo issue in order to join EU and not Kosovo. We all know that Serbia’s path to EU currently is ahead of Kosovo’s. So why would Kosovo help Serbia get faster to EU?
4. As far as Kosovo internal affairs are concerned it would be a political suicide for any party or individual to even hint on any status negotiations with Serbia. This could eventually lead to an unstable government and political stagnation and progress in the country (Kosovo) that no one, not even Serbia would want to deal with. Most of the Kosovo population (excluding the Serbs) does not want to go back to Serbian rule.
5. It seems like Serbia is willing to make this diplomatic push on status negotiations despite what the outcome of the ICJ opinion is (at least that’s what I understand from the article); as the article says, “Steps have been taken to immediately, “literally the day after the opinion of the International Court of Justice in The Hague is given, to call a meeting of the UN Security Council”, says the newspaper.” This to me confirms that the Serbian government is not interested in the outcome of the opinion and more on the final goal on trying to keep Kosovo as a part of Serbia. Therefore, the Kosovo government will not commit to status negotiations with a country that would not recognize the opinion of the ICJ if it favors Kosovo. Why would the status negotiations be needed if ICJ opinion is in favor of the Kosovo government? Why has this special Security Council meeting request?

louie mate, I've thought more than once about leaving this site over the years. At times it gets to inundated with nationalistic nonsense that I often wonder if it's worth it. But then I realize that if people like you and me leave, the Kosova-USAs and rasos win. I'm happy that people like Amer are becoming more active contributors on this site. Like you, I don't always agree with what he writes, but I've got to appreciate what he writes.

So in the name of sanity, keep contributing. I'll take a comment by you any day over the nonsensical Albanian hypernationalists.

Jason mate, keep rattling that ego of your best friend here ;)

B.Bokes - "Kosovo is already a member of the major world financial insitutions. In a couple of years it will eventually be a member of the United Nations --- if not it can always vote in referendum and join in confederate with Albania and thus be represented by Albania."

you've overlooked two small problems.
1) financial institutions - World bank and IMF membership could easily be reversed because at the moment the US and Eu have just enough votes to allow you into each organisation but the tide is turning with Chin, Brazil and Russia but to name a few demanding a greater say (and a greater share of the vote) at the IMF and World Bank. Unfortunately all these countries do not and will not recognise Kosovo.

2) join with Albania - If Serbia wins it's case at the ICJ and then Kosovo and Albania declare to "unify", that would be a legitimate and legal justification for Serbia to go to war not just with Kosovo but with Albania also. Even the US aren't so stupid to create another large regional war when they are already occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan. So what will happen is that you will get a slap in the face from your masters and told to behave yourself. i.e. kosovo will be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

It'll have no access to international finance, no international legitimacy and no hope of joining with Albania because the US and Eu are the masters of Albanians.

So what are your options? no legitimacy, no finance, no travel options, etc,etc. be my guest, be like a child throwing your toys out of the pram. sooner or later some bright albanian will realise that you can't exist like this forever and will accede to Serbian demands to talk. In the meantime Serbia will be on it's merry way into Europe.

being generous, your options are limited at best.

The only benefts to new talks would be for Serbian pride.
(pss, 11 January 2010 13:27)
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Oh, this is not for Serbian pride, I can assure you. We can keep Kosovo's independence blocked indefinitely while Serbia continues to prosper.

This is to help the West unblock its short sighted policy on Kosovo, which is costing it dearly.

I believe the US/EU will force Pristina to negotiate because it needs to. This article mentions "hurting relations with American as the largest world power without whom there is no political or economic progress". Now that is true for ethnic Albanians but not Serbia as we have alternatives. They are your masters and regardless of the ICJ decision, it will open the door to negotiations - wait and see.

Don't worry too much, Serbia has no interest in ruling over Kosovo Albanians. You will be in control of the 60% of territory you occupy.

Just like the Kosovo status is hindering Serbia's EU aspirations, so is Serbia Kosovo's. Look for the EU to the screws to the Albanians. Remember, Serbia is of far more benefit to Europe than totally underdeveloped, and money-draining Kosovo.

Now Tabalija speaks for Jason, sometime Jason for Tabalija. I wonder if is the same person, but with identity crises at hand?
(Kosova-USA, 11 January 2010 20:14)

Yes, lets see here... How many frustrated claims has Kosovo-USA made?

- Jason is not American.

- Jason is an American but a very, very naughty one.

- Jason is Tabalija. (For the record I do not wish this because I would not get that free drink he promised me way back when).

-Jason is a midget Samoan transsexual with a Balkan fetish. (Ok, I made the last one up!)

You know, you should try and post intelligent comments regarding Kosovo sometime. Right now you just come off as a very angry guy obsessed with me:)

The article in Blic http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Tema-Dana/171815/Diplomatski-rat-za-nove-pregovore-o-Kosovu- doesn't say the talks will be presented to the UNSC as status talks - the idea is to present them simply as talks about problems of mutual concern, then - at the very last moment - to bring up the question of status.

No matter whether anything is accomplished, Serbia will be able to tell the EU that it has no outstanding problems with any of its neighbors - it's negotiating with Kosovo. With Kosovo not getting anything until the agreement is finally signed, and Serbia insisting on some kind of formal recognition of sovereignty for this to happen. This will give it time to revive its own economy (because foreign companies will be reassured that Kosovo won't be a threat to Serbia's entry into the EU) while continuing to destabilize Kosovo's (because its final status will be unclear until some agreement is reached that requires Serbia's consent).

Notice the emphasis on a quick breakthrough (to get negotiations started) - when a salesman pushes for a quick signature, you know you'd better reread the contract.

"If they are ever to begin, it is an admission by ethnic Albanians that independence has failed. "

If that is the case then there will be no negotiations. Don't call for negotiation and then put down pre conditions that cannot be met. So you want negotiations but only if they come cap in hand? Likewise, the Pristina should not set pre conditions.

Ian,

Agreement is the solution. It must and will happen sooner or later. The alternative isn't worth thinking about.

This govermant is trying to prepare itself for another defeat at ICJ, and come up with another lie to its Serb population.
They know that the only think to negotiate with Kosova govermant and its people is just good neighborly relation, and nothing else.Or, else I sugest they build a wall between Kosova and Serbia, so nothing goes in or out in both sides. I am all for it,since we may at last both sides can have peace of mind once and for all.

So Ian you are utterly wrong. There are many reasons why (the people of) Kosovo shold negotiate with Serbia, above all self interest.

Instead of hearing the usual rejection from some Albanian posters I'd like to hear real logical, thought out reasons for rejecting talks. How will that benefit the people of Kosovo?
(bganon, 11 January 2010 12:32)
bganon, turning the question only shows you have no answer. What can Serbia realistically offer to Kosovo that would entice a change? The only benefts to new talks would be for Serbian pride.
Unless Serbia begins with lets negotiate the terms for recognition there will never be new "status" talks.
However, some type of power sharing platform may receive international support, but I do not thnk you could muster any Serban support for such an idea.

...And to think that the issue was over...It's just getting started!

pss, blue and gold, kos
The history and conflict and negotiation show that it IS possible that two sides with opposite viewpoints CAN find a solution. So questions such as 'what could they possibly put on the table' are excuses to not sit round the table. I could equally say, 'what could be possibly lost'.

Two sides with opposing viewpoints do not give up before talks have even been held and the whole point of talks is to air / express possible solutions that have not been considered before, to horse trade and if necessary, to exhaust the other side into submission! Far better than war I hope you agree.

I mean with that negative attitude the IRA and Ulster Freedom Fighters would still be waging a terrorist war in Northern Ireland. I think its the wrong attitude and whats more I suspect you know it.

2 Yes the leadership of Serbia care about ownership of Kosovo more than they do about the people, but so does Kosovo Albanian leaders. Newsflash all the Balkans looks at land this way and hey lets not be dishonest - supposedly 'advanced' western countries also behave like this when it comes to land. Again, regardless who did what to whom first and who suffered more, in order to prevent future suffering one has to come to the table. In every conflict one side suffers more - do not think you or the situation of Kosovo are any more special than any other area. No Serbian government forces would be able to march around Kosovo in the way that happened in 1999. In talks Albanians would not allow it and the internationals would not allow it. That would be one of the concessions that Serbia would be forced to make, if that kind of deal was made.
3 Serbia will not join the EU within the next 5 years at the earliest - so if you are saying you are prepared for Kosovo to suffer for that period of time in some foolish effort to make Serbia also suffer, not only do we both lose but you will suffer more in that period at least - on this topic, if you are right that is.

4 I know that and appreciate it. We would have to be imaginative in this regard. I think that everything has to be on the table but I think that Serbia would 'behave' if status (if only of the north) was to be discussed and state publicly that it was 'talks' rather than status talks. Belgrade must behave in such a situation, because if they don't the Albanian side could just walk out. So much for status talks! Your side btw will also feel it has a stronger position because of your sense that you have everything already.

5 you are confusing two things here - Belgrade launching a campaign for the re-opening of status talks is not the same thing as Belgrade re-launching its campaign for Kosovo to remain in Serbia. You must get it into your head that these are not the same thing - although the public on both sides will believe it is.

No matter what the ICJ decision, it does not solve Kosovo's problems, one of the primary being status. Belgrade nor Pristina will just roll over, go home and say 'ok, we lost fair and square'. No, the future will be decided at peace conferences / negotiations.

pss ironic that you criticise me for turning the question round! You did not give me rational reasons why neogitations should be rejected, that was all I asked. I didn't ask for blood!

As far as Serbian pride is concerned, it would be a small victory for current government policy yes. But for Serbian pride as a whole, no. Besides, if we all come out of talks with no deals, its a failure all round.
Besides, what you are really talking about here is supposed Albanian humiliation at taking part right? You are sooo wrong to think in this self destructive way. It is never defeat to try to help your people.

B Bokes 'Serbia and Kosovo have a million reason to sit down and talk. Everyone familiar with the situation knows this but the Serb side has always insisted on certain preconditions before any talks begun.'

What preconditions??? I would say that Albanians are not just disatisfied with the current Kosovo government. They are disatisfied with the international rulers, they are disatisfied with the lack of investment and the corruption. If nothing else a deal with Serbia / Serbs will ease some of these problems.

I still do not have any logical reasons why talks should not begin.

Man how many times do we have to go through this. What you say is unrealistic to us and what we say is unrealistic to you. What you propose is unrealistic to us and what we propose is unrealistic to you. Ok now that we get that I'll do the honors and state the obvious. Now back to reality Kosova is not a Serb province either.

Do you get why talks or negotiations don't matter now?
(johny, 12 January 2010 05:06)
Do You think, that after US support for break international law Kosovo will be member of world community with full rights???? This is really unrealistic myth. Kosovo have no chance to join UN/EU and will be really european "black hole".

Parts of Kosovo territory is outside albanian autorities, use serbian law, serbian money, serbian licence plates, take power from Serbia, is part of serbian school and post system, footbal or basketball teams play in serbian leagues, Železnice Srbije operates trains in North Kosovo, president of Serbia going in and uot without mr Thaci acceptance... This is "independence"???? No my friend. Is US/EU protectorate.

No, YOUR EU membership is irreversibly blocked. The French told you las wekk and today the Germans (Wolfgang Ischinger) did. This year it will become official.

aRta,
You and I , can watch any news we wish, but ordinary Serbs are deprived of that. That is why , there is no news on Serb sites what Wolfgang said today.

What is it with Serbs and their hyperboles? What's the fascination with them? Here we have the government declaring "Battle for negotiations" or "Battle for solutions". First not only this is a hyperbole but it is also an oxymoron. Since Serbia claims it wants peaceful solutions, and negotiations then things such as "Battle for negotiations" and "Battle for peaceful solutions" are nonexistent; simply because battle and peaceful are mutually exclusive. They are simply a figment of imagination of myth-makers in Belgrade who by using such hyperboles want to stir deep emotional feelings in the average Joe; make him "aware" how strong their government is "fighting" so they should "fight" with the government also. This website is a good example of that "fighting".

The previous hyperbole came from the former Serbian prime minister about 2 years ago. Kostunica stated that he and his country was in a Holy War with the US and the West. First of all there was no war going on at the time. Second Serbia challenging the West to a Holy War not only is a pipe-dream but also schizophrenic on so many levels. Freud would have a great specimen in Kostunica based on the so many jewels he produced while governing the Serbs. Third although a pipe-dream, and schizophrenic, Kostunica's hyperbolic jewel had the same goal as these "battles for negotiations" have. That is to stir deep emotional feelings in the average Joe; make him "aware" how strong their government is "fighting" so they should "fight" with the government also. The only thing is though that there is really no war going on thus no battles, and nothing to fight over a battle when there is no war be it holy or unholy.
How about being a little more realistic next time. First step would be to remove terms such as Holy Wars, Battles, Fights, from Belgrade's government. Terms like that do not belong to the heart of Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard them from the Iranian government but such anachronism in the heart of Europe, coming from those that claim to be so superior and advanced over those they were persecuting yesterday, has no place. Such anachronism, such myth-making, such oxymorons and hyperboles spell nothing but disease for people's minds, and conflict for our peoples in the Balkans. You wanna work for negotiations? That's fine, however poisoning people with imaginary Holy Wars and fake Battles is not fine. It is irresponsible and reprehensible.

Oh and UNSC wont pass a new resolution no matter how much Russian or Chines officials try, you know our allies too have this thing, what was it called again, oh yeah "VETO". I dont even need to mention who the strong ones will come out in history books.
(Pejoni, 11 January 2010 17:16)

Clearly you need a lesson on how the Security Council works.

or Albania and Kosova join in one state.
(Zoti, 11 January 2010 19:35)
--
You mean Albania will become a province of Serbia? Wow, interesting proposal!

Dammit Amer why do you have to make me chuckle so much?

1. I sincerely hope Ataman hasn't left. Though he does end up having some sort of crazy adventure anywhere between Gracanica and St. Petersburg now and again. I suspect he's off now because he'd have immediately picked up joining our Summit/Drinking Party.

2. "Train Line Across the Balkans Restitches a Region"
My God, what's this world coming to.... people actually thinking outside their 19th century Imagined Community (and if you get the title, cheers)

3. I think Mister is speaking of Tramvaj. A decent place indeed, and a 5 minute walk to "6 i 400", one of the best kafane in Belgrade (rakija shots for under 100 RSD)

4. "we invite all those American history teachers currently being laid off in the States to come to the Balkans and teach kids how to forget history the way they do at home."

-- Holy Hand Grenade, don't remind me. I'm a college teacher myself and I've come to realize what's nostalgic for me is ancient history for this crop of youngins' Ugh. A few years ago a student asked what a Commodore 64 was since I mentioned it in a lecture, and without missing a beat I said it was the early 1980s singing precursor to Blink-182. He wrote it down. That was at Princeton.

5. And for the love of Bob, don't "shut up" (your response to louie). I daresay he had you in mind when he wrote that.

Anyways, the evening beer is happily settling in me now. I'm taking the rest of the evening off (that's probably a lie but I gotta at least make an attempt).

Cheers mate

Jason mate, keep rattling that ego of your best friend here ;)
(Mike, 11 January 2010 23:39)

Glad you enjoy, Mike. I know I do.

On an unrelated note... were you by chance sent here in August 2008 for work with UNMIK?

"None of you speak for Serbs. You’re not Serbs. You dont even know Serbs.
And you run along now.
(Tabalija, 11 January 2010 19:43) "

Which makes me wonder - why is this page in English?

New Year started,a lot of new things happened,while in here nothing changed!

I found B92 a place where you could read different opinions when I joined many years ago,in some ways you could get involved, became friends with some,Matthew,Mike,...
There were always disagreements between us,but at least we left room for explanations without insulting anyone!

Now these days I don't like to write about anything as we have so many experts in here and I wonder maybe Serbia and Kosova will use some of knowledge in here for the future negotiations!!!

Peace and Love from London!!!

'In any event, all of this is speculation and I will simply repeat my 2010 wish I shared with Amer yesterday: if both sides "agree to disagree", stay in their respective spheres of influence and don't do anything to disrupt the other side, I'll be jumping for joy and breaking out the moonshine.

And that would be cause to celebrate at our Kafana Summit.
(Mike, 11 January 2010 17:47)'

A holding pattern doesn't sound all that bad, compared to what the hyperactive Mr. Jeremic may be planning. Just letting enough time pass has much to be said for it.

Here's a link I'd send to an Ataman post (if he hadn't given up on us and stopped posting): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/world/europe/11train.html?hpw

"Train Line Across the Balkans Restitches a Region"

(Lots of pictures)

Here's the quote I like: “I think young people realize that nationalism and racism are wrong because we are all from the same flesh,” Mr. Mehmedagic said. “I am half-Muslim and half-Serb and I’m proud of it.” The three young men said they no longer wanted to be defined along ethnic or religious lines but viewed themselves simply as Bosnians. They believed that their people were ready to move beyond the ethnic divisions that led their parents’ generation to war, they said, if their leaders stopped agitating for political gain."

I also liked the price - $45 round trip, Sarajevo to Belgrade and back.

Mister likes a pub in Belgrade with live music, but also Sarajevo - this could be a traveling Kafana summit.

A last suggestion: we invite all those American history teachers currently being laid off in the States to come to the Balkans and teach kids how to forget history the way they do at home. (Do you have any idea how many kids think that we fought against Russia on the side of the Germans and Italians in WWII? That is, if they can even place WWII in the correct century. )

I still do not have any logical reasons why talks should not begin.
(bganon, 11 January 2010 19:35
It depends,if you are talking about talks between Kosovo and Serbia on issues pertaining to the 2 and its people talks should be started.
If you are talking about status talks, it would be fruitless.
Serbia has said they will never agree to independence, Kosovo will never agree to less. Unless one side or the other is willing to compromise there will never be talks.
My question to you is what is different at this point that Serbia could possibly put on the table that would create a desire for resuming talks, outside of saying we will recognize the independence of Kosovo under the following condtions?

It sounds like the Serbian government has already forecasted this scenario; that the ICJ will rule in favour of Pristina and it is therefore rallying its much-beleaguered forces for another fruitless campaign to counter this eventuality.

Partition of Kosovo, special status for Gracanica,Visoki Decani, And Pecka Patriarsija. and Partition of BiH would be most realistic solution for the Balkans.

>Partition of Kosovo, special status for Gracanica,Visoki Decani, And Pecka Patriarsija. and Partition of BiH would be most realistic solution for the Balkans.
(Nebojsa

Well its realistic in the sense that its what the regime works on. Take North, take Rs. There will be no Rs independence just unification. I really laugh when I read about it. There is not Serb alive in Rs who wants indepednence. Remember how the war started? Muslims wanted to force independence. 20 years later Serbs will win the war. Anyway this takes time. Maybe things will be upset a little in Montenegro just to help talks along but nothing serious. Albanians could help if they provoke in north or less possibly in Presevo valley that would be much appreciated.

Jason, nope wasn't in Kosovo Province in 2008. Just in June 2009. Though I think if I ever did work for UNMIK I'd share similar sentiments as you. I will repeat however my rather pleasant surprise to find as vibrant (and flippant) a community in Gracanica as I did - the power generator thing was such a kick (literally sometimes). That place has strong potential to grow into fully functioning Serbian administration center for central and southern Kosovo.
(Mike, 12 January 2010 18:13)

Ah, Ok Mike... I am from north Jersey myself, not far from Giants Stadium. I had you in mind possibly as another Mike who I came back here with the year prior.

Anyway, yes, Gracanica has a real vibe to it but my favorite spot has got to be Zvecan. A pretty town with history, a strong spirit - and, some excellent places to have some domaci rakija:)

JohnBoy - "Serbia wins world cup????" Stranger things have happened, but I think there is more chance of finding Elvis alive.

'Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed.


(JohnBoy, 11 January 2010 15:55) '

Whatever country held the presidency would have put Kosovo on the agenda - it's time for the quarterly report - the one sure time these days you're practically guaranteed a Zannier-sighting.

If you want to talk about more territories Yes why not, Preseva, Bujanoc, Medveda, Teplica, Sijarina, we can accept all this, and than we can sign an act after that we will not ask any more from SERBIA, northern than USCE near BG
Thanks IR

Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed. 2010-2011 will be the Years of the Serbs - Serbia wins ICJ Kosovo ruling, RS becomes independent, Serbia wins genocide lawsuit against croatia, Djukanovic is brought to justice. Serbia wins World Cup??? probably no.
(JohnBoy, 11 January 2010 15:55)
I disagree about the Issue of Serbia winning the ICJ ruling ,as The Kosovo issue is done and dusted,as realistically no-one can deny that.
But, on the other hand when you mentioned: Serbia winning the World Cup, that might happen, As an Albanian I would support Serbia to win the world cup instead of England for example where i live,It is easier for Serbia to win the world cup than it was for Greece winning the euro cup 4 eyars ago As Serbia has the players to do it.

Cheers

Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed. 2010-2011 will be the Years of the Serbs - Serbia wins ICJ Kosovo ruling, RS becomes independent, Serbia wins genocide lawsuit against croatia, Djukanovic is brought to justice. Serbia wins World Cup??? probably no.
(JohnBoy, 11 January 2010 15:55)
Sorry to burst your bubble but China did not put Kosovo on the agenda, it assigned the schedule for the regular meeting in which was to take place in January.
The UNSG will present his report, the Special Representative will tell how his office is no longer effective. Afew countries led by the US will discuss the successes of the Kosovo govt and the implementation of the Ahtissari Plan and some countries led by Russia will insist on continuance of the status "neutrality" meaning the UN is not to refer to Kosovo as an independent state but also cannot refer to it as a province of Serbia. However, individual states may do as they please.
Then B92 will run an article hghlighting what Jeremic said and dismissing any opposing comments, readers here will line up on their respectve sides and throw stones at the other side.
Otherwise it will just be another day in the neighborhood.

>You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?
(Amer,

Jason spells better. Speaks better? Unlike the other one he certainly sounds like someone I would drink with although I think it would end badly by 4 am sometime. But all in all. None of you speak for Serbs. You’re not Serbs. You dont even know Serbs.
And you run along now.

Now these days I don't like to write about anything as we have so many experts in here and I wonder maybe Serbia and Kosova will use some of knowledge in here for the future negotiations!!!

Peace and Love from London!!!
(louie, 11 January 2010 18:36)

__________

Peace and Love to London!!!

Louie, come back - we need a few kind-hearted souls. Some of us can use google, some have on-the-scene information, some have lived in the area forever, and some provide a constant reminder of why everything is so difficult. But good nature is always in short supply.

I'll shut up if you'll come back. Deal? (There are plenty of people these days who can google.)

Talks brough no results, because K-Albanians have unrealistic demands. Let's back to reality - Kosovo will be never "independent".
(Milan, 11 January 2010 23:03)

Man how many times do we have to go through this. What you say is unrealistic to us and what we say is unrealistic to you. What you propose is unrealistic to us and what we propose is unrealistic to you. Ok now that we get that I'll do the honors and state the obvious. Now back to reality Kosova is not a Serb province either.

Do you get why talks or negotiations don't matter now?

Amer,

Born, bred, and live in NJ. Over the years I've developed somewhat of an unhealthy sense of local nationalism to the point that I wouldn't mind if self-determination movements cropped up elsewhere around the country. I'll happily live in a smaller NJ/NYC oblast (though for reasons only New Jerseyites could explain, we love our state but PLEASE can someone take Camden?)

And let's leave California alone from some of our more zealous Albanian friends here. While it would be funny to see what happens, don't you think CA has enough problems already?

As for the frequent "mate" references, I also find myself saying "aye" a lot too. I think it might be the cyber exposure to internationals on this site. Rest assured, a native "howyadoin" will be proudly spoken in my native land :)

Jason, nope wasn't in Kosovo Province in 2008. Just in June 2009. Though I think if I ever did work for UNMIK I'd share similar sentiments as you. I will repeat however my rather pleasant surprise to find as vibrant (and flippant) a community in Gracanica as I did - the power generator thing was such a kick (literally sometimes). That place has strong potential to grow into fully functioning Serbian administration center for central and southern Kosovo.

The serbian constitution it is clear.Kosovo is part of Serbia.Since for most of the Serbs Kosovo is not independent and will never be independent.What is that Serbia is going to negotiate?And with whom is serbia going to negotiate?What happened to: Kosovo will not be a problem for Serbia' EU membership?

Kosovars will never, never, never sacrifice independence that is fact that Serbia has to get used to it. It is open to negotiate everything else exept the independence. It is a closed issue.
(B.Bokes, 11 January 2010 14:38)

thank you, b bokes, and keep on posting -- it's nice to have some friendly company.

as for the obnoxious americans: there are more of them here than you can shake a stick at. aussie(s) as well. which does not change my opinion one little bit re the beautiful and spiritied aussies that i have met.

the thing is, don't wanna hear my opinion, don't bring up my name in vain. someone just figured that out...

i think it is perfectly clear that most pro-independence people are also pro-negotiations -- it is a twist of truth (a lie) to say we are not. but our independence is not on the chopping block -- is yours?! :))

and one little news item -- a good frnd is applying for a position with the new kosovar govt. actually we're pretty excited about it, and i think they will make a great addition. we shall see...

ciao!

roberto, just back from pristina

ps ataman goes thru busy spurts w/his work, and will no doubt return when he has the time.

You mean Albania will become a province of Serbia? Wow, interesting proposal!
(Zoran, 11 January 2010 20:51)

Honestly I woulnd't mind such outcome cause under such scenario I could see Belgrade become Albanian before your grandshildren reach 18.

Ziveli.

maybe jason is kosovo-usa... hmmm?

we used to say that every generation has to fight for our freedom.Seems that this say is not old fashonned at all,when listening to projects! So let's be prepared for the next clash!

Maybe Kosovar politicians should change strategy and flirt a little with the idea of unification with Albania. You know, release a trial balloon, leak a 'plan' to the press, an 'inconsiderate' statement, something that would raise the steaks a little...Belgrade is toying with fire, so why not give a foretaste of what could happen?
Because when Serbia talks of negotiations it really means partition. And if partition happens, the north-less Kosovo becomes part of Albania, without Trepca but with the enclaves, with Gracanica and Decani.
It has to be made clear to Belgrade that its current course is only radicalizing K-Albanians a little more. Remember that KLA only gained widespread support when Serbia stepped up its murderous actions against civilians. So it is in the interest of Serbia, and of the Serb population in Kosovo, first and foremost, that it exist as an independent state.
Then we can negotiate about things that are really important to people, not fantasies.

This will never happen, and if it does it will be on EU integration. Note what the French ambassador said yesterday when quoting President Sarkozy saying "It is not a condition for Serbia to recognise Kosovo but it is a condition to have neibourly dialogue between the two countries", in other words dialogue means recognising that government when recognising the government you really do recognise the state and so on...

I know you Serbs think that your politically advance but don't forget that your preaching to your teachers i.e. the French and the English who have by the way recognised Kosovo.

Why not just let the Albanians battle it out with the Serbs?

This is the way all things are settled. The mighty, smarter takes all.

I know you Serbs think that your politically advance but don't forget that your preaching to your teachers i.e. the French and the English who have by the way recognised Kosovo.
(Krasniq't, 12 January 2010 14:33)

Then Serbia doesn't enter EU, simple.
But "Kosova" doesn't enter EU either and neither it enters the UN.

Serbia can live a lot better without EU but how will "Kosova" go without EU and UN?

Why not just let the Albanians battle it out with the Serbs?

This is the way all things are settled. The mighty, smarter takes all.
(Clooney, 12 January 2010 18:24)

This is something that ALbanian militant Adem Demaci wanted. He believed that true independence could only come from an ALbanian gun. Sadly the KLA which was the biggest advocate of independence didn't have the stomach for a real fight and hence followed a strategy outlined by greater powers. Provocation, intimidation of their own and finally staged massacres.
Now I'll probably hear complaints from the K-A side of how were the KLA to fight "Europe's 4th biggest army". Simple really- Don't start a fight you can't finish! But hey look at the LTTE (Tamil Tigers)in Sri Lanka, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the PKK in SE Turkey. All these resistance groups operated without NATO air power (unlike the KLA) and made major sacrifices and gains in their operations. The KLA did not- hence you're not independent. You are only owned and owe.

Independence is blocked while Serbia can also offer lasting peace and prosperity.

(Zoran, 11 January 2010 14:28)

Wow, you speak like Serbia is controlling Kosovo's fate. The maximum you can say is that Serbia can influence N. Mitrovica, but for the rest Serbia's control has ended 10 yrs ago. However, please feel free to think that Serbia is in control if that makes you feel better...

Do You think, that after US support for break international law Kosovo will be member of world community with full rights???? This is really unrealistic myth. Kosovo have no chance to join UN/EU and will be really european "black hole".

Parts of Kosovo territory is outside albanian autorities, use serbian law, serbian money, serbian licence plates, take power from Serbia, is part of serbian school and post system, footbal or basketball teams play in serbian leagues, Železnice Srbije operates trains in North Kosovo, president of Serbia going in and uot without mr Thaci acceptance... This is "independence"???? No my friend. Is US/EU protectorate.
(Milan, 12 January 2010 11:58)

Milan I disagree with you on the international law interpretation as no Serb has yet pointed me an international law that specifically states that declarations of independence are illegal.
Having said that do you see me even bothering if the Serbs in their areas use Serb license plates, don't take part on the Kosova soccer league, trains operated by Serbs where Serbs live, if power is taken from Serbia or if they schools follow Serb curriculum? Do you see me even getting bothered when Tadic visits Serb areas? Do you know why? It simple. Because frankly I do not give a damn what Serbs do in their areas, they can live the way they want to live and how they wish to live. I don't care its their lives.
Now let me ask you why then are you so bothered about how Albanians live and govern themselves in their areas? Why do you care whether we are independent or a protectorate? What's all the fixation or fascination on whether us Albanians make it to the EU or not? If you do not want to tell us how to live, if you do not want to govern us, if you do not want to have to do anything with us what is then all this animosity about how we live, who we ally ourselves with, what we follow etc.? What's up with that? What's with this obsession and fascination? Let go, how we live is none of your business.

P.S Serbia is not allowed to fly into areas of proper Serbia, and/or conduct certain activities in certain areas within Serbia proper. That Milan is not full-right and is not how a respected member of world community is treated. Don't believe me? Simple compare it with those you don't like the most; Albania. Albania can fly anywhere it wants within the country and can have it military and other activities anywhere it wants withing the country. Respected or not respected it can do anything within the country that the world community has barred Serbia from doing. So again reflect on yourselves before preaching others.

>Jason is a midget Samoan transsexual with a Balkan fetish

Arent we all! Eh KosovoUSA? ;)

Btw Jason like our wise knucklehead leaders say we agree to disagree.. was it? But that drink still stands.

"Holy Hand Grenade, don't remind me."

So you got the Monty Python reference.

"Hands across the water, heads across the sky ..."

Is that what you had in mind? for the train reference?

"mate"?

Where are you from, buddy?

BTW, do you think we could persuade some of the Kosovo self-determination specialists here to go do missionary work in California? Wouldn't it be great if they'd declare independence and stop trying to get the rest of us to bail them out? Or maybe they'd just share some of those Scandanavian budgetary experts our Left Coast friends so dearly need to listen to.

Kosovo-USA - when you're done with those experts on budgeting and tax-setting, maybe you could ship them to California?

Johny - You can dreaming, that You live in "independent" state, that Kosovo have "european perspective" and whatever You want. But fact is one - Kosovo really is part of Republic of Serbia under international protectorate. And I belive that ICJ will confirm, that declaration of separatist from 17 February 2008 was illegal. And this will be reason for new status talks. End.
(Milan, 13 January 2010 22:49)

The difference between us and you guys is that we are more than ok with whatever you want to believe will happen; or is actually happening. You on the other time seem to have a hard time that we don't see things the same way as you do or believe the same things as you about the situation now or in the future. That is your problem however, not ours. We're doing just fine whether you want to see things our way or your way doesn't matter one bit to us.

"Belgrade, “naturally”, writes this newspaper, reacts negatively to ever step towards cooperation with Kosovo by its neighbors, “deteriorating” relations in the region."

Notice the position of Serbia, (or of the newspaper which wrote this): "cooperation brings deterioration". this must seem so absurd and contradicting to outsiders, EU included. And this absurdity happens "naturally", according to the newspaper, so Serbian government can not do anything about it.
Or maybe the double quotes in "naturally", and in "deteriorating" mean that it is not very natural, and they're not deteriorating? "Why" "do" "journalists" "in" "the" "Balkans" "write" "such" "confusing" "articles"?

But hey look at the LTTE (Tamil Tigers)in Sri Lanka, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the PKK in SE Turkey. All these resistance groups operated without NATO air power (unlike the KLA) and made major sacrifices and gains in their operations. The KLA did not- hence you're not independent. You are only owned and owe.
(Milan, 13 January 2010 03:16)

The Tamils have been all but wiped out. Hezbollah was neutered. PKK is irrelevant and its leader jaied. KLA is in power in its own country.

Tell me again who are the smart ones?

Lastly, thank you for realizing that KLA was a resistance group.

Peggy: except soldiers who are honourable decent people even when they'll illiterate stupid bastards.. I wont go into explaining that now :), but except them there are no regular Americans in Kosovo.

(Milan, 13 January 2010 03:16)

You have right Serbia or former Yugoslavia was the 4th biggest army. Serbia was powerful enough to start couple of war and loose almost all. Serbia is able to keep Kosovo in trouble thanks the Russian support. On the other hand, Kosovo got the independence thanks to USA and European support. I do not know who is smarter here, but the truth is that Kosovo is INDEPENDENT and recognition process is moving forward slowly but surely. Serbian government is dreaming about renegotiation, which means to repeat something the just failed once. Repeating it now after 65 recognitions is a tough or impossible job, especially because Albanians and these 65 countries do not need that. I do not think that Jeremic is stupid. This is just the way how he can stay in power as foreign minister. This is a good job, for sure. You can go whenever you want around the world for free. Government pays, just need to declare: I am trying to bring Kosovo back.

(johny, 13 January 2010 20:13)

Johny - You can dreaming, that You live in "independent" state, that Kosovo have "european perspective" and whatever You want. But fact is one - Kosovo really is part of Republic of Serbia under international protectorate. And I belive that ICJ will confirm, that declaration of separatist from 17 February 2008 was illegal. And this will be reason for new status talks. End.

Lastly, thank you for realizing that KLA was a resistance group.
(Zoti, 13 January 2010 16:56)


I wouldn't go that far. The KLA claim to be a resistance group but only proved themselves to fold like cheap Chinese mattresses when the time come. I pointed out the other groups just to point out the difference between a 'real' resistance group and that of criminal organisation that will enslave the majority of the so-called 2million K-Albs. Wait and see.

I do not know who is smarter here, but the truth is that Kosovo is INDEPENDENT and recognition process is moving forward slowly but surely.
(Luan, 14 January 2010 00:22)

You are wrong - Kosovo is PSEUDOINDEPENDENT separatist territory on the territory of Republic of Serbia.

The difference between us and you guys is that we are more than ok with whatever you want to believe will happen; or is actually happening. You on the other time seem to have a hard time that we don't see things the same way as you do or believe the same things as you about the situation now or in the future. That is your problem however, not ours. We're doing just fine whether you want to see things our way or your way doesn't matter one bit to us.
(johny, 14 January 2010 01:01)

No my friend - this is not my or Your problem. This is EUROPEAN PROBLEM. You need to broke international law. You need to open Pandora box.
You - Albanian minority in Serbia need to be independent?? So - why not serbian minority in Kosovo?? Or in Bosnia?? Do You support right of peoples from North, Gracanica or Strpce to live in their own country - Republic of Serbia????

ou need to broke international law. You need to open Pandora box.
You - Albanian minority in Serbia need to be independent?? So - why not serbian minority in Kosovo?? Or in Bosnia?? Do You support right of peoples from North, Gracanica or Strpce to live in their own country - Republic of Serbia????
(Milan, 14 January 2010 15:38)

Milan or any Serb can you point me to the international law that specific that specifically states that " Declarations of Independence are Illegal"; since that is one of the two possible direct answer to Serbia's question. The other being "Declarations of Independence are not illegal" because there is no international law that regulates declarations of independence. If you cannot point me to such an international law then there is no illegality; especially considering that you guys, meaning Serbia doesn't consider Kosova a state. So in your own logic there has been no new state and there is no law that regulates declarations of independence hence there is no instance of illegality. Simple as that.

To answer the other question. I support the right of any people to be independent. I've stated it here before. If the Serbs in the North, If those in Gracanica, If those in Bosnia declare and have international support for their independence then not only I support it but based on that they are by all means Independent. To sum up I believe that anyone can declare independence and anyone that gathers international support for their independence IS independent. No need for the blessing of those you don't wanna live with. It has always been the case; that's how the majority of states have come to fruition.

Thats right. 2010: Back to the table Serbo-Albanians. Know your place And get ready to have the RUS-controled EU pressure you. First Spain, the GER & Italy who are on their way to have their economies turned into a Russian appendage.Your state has failed, 1/d of KiM is out of your control, EULEX is an arm of MUP & thats left is to weaken your pistol & hunting-rifle powered KPS.

What has Belgrade got that will make Kosovo give up it's independence and negotiate "status talks"? To them there is nothing to discuss about Kosovo's status as they have already finalised it. That is the way things are.

In the region, only Romania and Bosnia-Herzegovina have not recognized Kosovo’s unilaterally proclaimed independence...
--
This is a poorly written article.

In the region, Serbia, BiH, Greece and Romania have not recognised Kosovo's UDD. In the world, the overwhelming majority have not recognised it either.

Status negotiations is what we need as independence is irreversibly blocked. If they are ever to begin, it is an admission by ethnic Albanians that independence has failed.

This government is also treading on thin ice so it needs to be careful about balancing between Russia/China and the EU/US.

Serbina ICJ failure is being presented to Serbian people with another plan for something else. This must be very insulting for Serbian people.
Anyhow, I see this plan as another way of preventing some of the countries from recognising Kosovo's Independence.

After ICJ plan, this plan seems to be vague.

Nikshala: "So far Serbia has failed miserably in this and I cannot see what they can offer that will make the Kosovan side talk with them. The current status is much better than anything that Serbia can offer."

Firstly, it is the international community who will strongly support reopened negotiations as they recognise it's the only way forward.

Especially after the complete sham of the last 'negotiations' where one side was told from the beginning that they could have everything they wanted and would not have to make any compromise (really shortsighted move).

Secondly, the current 'status' as you put it, is being funded by other nations and propped up by international institutions. Against a backdrop of corruption there is no hope of taking off the trainer wheels for decades, if ever (and I don't mean that as an insult in any way). That is costly and impractical for the international community.

The government in Pristina needs to change and move on from the old KLA school. With a modern leadership and an open mind, I think that Belgrade and Pristina could actually build a positive future for the people living in Kosovo. One which they would both be happy with.

And Ian, UK, your ideas are based on pre millennium pseudo-intellectual garb from sources such as The Guardian.

I understand that it's nice to be popular, and am glad to see that Santa increased your computer hours, but until you try to feed to your family in unimaginable cold with no work or money, you can't really champion the greatness of Kosovo 'independence'.

Have you even been to that part of the world ever at all? Have you ever even met anyone from that part of the world apart from the two geezers your Dad once introduced you to?

Words come easier than facing the cold with kids and no prospects. Just imagine Yorkshire even colder and at its most depressing multiplied by 20. Oh, and that you had to pay your own bills.

The only way Kosovo will sit and talk with Serbia about status is if Serbia has something to offer which is better than the current situation / status.

So far Serbia has failed miserably in this and I cannot see what they can offer that will make the Kosovan side talk with them. The current status is much better than anything that Serbia can offer.

I know serbs find it difficult to understand, but anything is better than being part of Serbia again.

The only issue still open is the 'North' which in my opinion is still unresolved.

Partition of Kosovo, special status for Gracanica,Visoki Decani, And Pecka Patriarsija. and Partition of BiH would be most realistic solution for the Balkans.

Serbina ICJ failure is being presented to Serbian people with another plan for something else. This must be very insulting for Serbian people.
(Olf, 11 January 2010, 12:27)

What is insulting to the Serbian people is having a closet-Albanian like yourself try and speak about what they do or do not feel.

This govermant is trying to prepare itself for another defeat at ICJ, and come up with another lie to its Serb population.
They know that the only think to negotiate with Kosova govermant and its people is just good neighborly relation, and nothing else.Or, else I sugest they build a wall between Kosova and Serbia, so nothing goes in or out in both sides. I am all for it,since we may at last both sides can have peace of mind once and for all.

"Instead of hearing the usual rejection from some Albanian posters I'd like to hear real logical, thought out reasons for rejecting talks. How will that benefit the people of Kosovo?"
(bganon,

As far as people of Kosovo are concerned negotiations with the Serb side are over. Majority of the world influential countries have recognized Kosovo as an independent state. Kosovo is already a member of the major world financial insitutions. In a couple of years it will eventually be a member of the United Nations --- if not it can always vote in referendum and join in confederate with Albania and thus be represented by Albania. Balkan borders have always shifted since one can remember so yes some countries will make some noise but at the end the the facts in the ground matter most. (Perfect example is Srebrenica before the war mostly populated by moslems now just a sad distant memory)

Serbia and Kosovo have a million reason to sit down and talk. Everyone familiar with the situation knows this but the Serb side has always insisted on certain preconditions before any talks begun. That is why no progress has been made and no progress will be made for as long as Serbia continues to ignore the Albanian institutions in Prishtina.

Kosovo desperately needs Serbia to cooperate but I can bet anything that it will not come at the price of sacrificing independence. Every Kosovar will tell you that they are extremely unhappy with the current corrupt and inefficent goverment but they're still better off then when they were under the Serbian rule.

I think the Serb side is sensing that the Albanian population of Kosovo is very unhappy with the current Kosovo goverment but I assure you that is certainly not a sign that people of Kosovo are ready to accept the Serbian rule.

Kosovars will never, never, never sacrifice independence that is fact that Serbia has to get used to it. It is open to negotiate everything else exept the independence. It is a closed issue.

Some poeple, not worth mention them, criticize others for something silly while themselves are doing the same thing in the same post. Isnt that ironic and pathetic.

As for the negotiations, now since Kosovo is Independent there are many things to discuss with Serbia, startingf from missing people, more than 2000 K-Alanians, economic, cultural and heritage, law and order and diplomatic ties. Everything cna be discussed only as two countries with no intergrity over their borders.

or Albania and Kosova join in one state.
(Zoti, 11 January 2010 19:35)
--
You mean Albania will become a province of Serbia? Wow, interesting proposal!

"Status negotiations is what we need as independence is irreversibly blocked."
------
No, YOUR EU membership is irreversibly blocked. The French told you las wekk and today the Germans (Wolfgang Ischinger) did. This year it will become official.

So if Serbia wants to move ahead they must please Germany, France, UK and 22 other EU nations. 'Status negotiations' are a pipe dream. They didn't produce anything for 9 years and will not for another 90, Kosova is settled. No more delays from Serbia, any delay is on your EU membership and relationship with US /EU.

You don't have to recognize Kosova but must accept the passports, products and stop supporting the illegal and immoral parallel structures.

Tadic's stunts of provoking Kosovo = Epic fail.

What has Belgrade got that will make Kosovo give up it's independence and negotiate "status talks"? To them there is nothing to discuss about Kosovo's status as they have already finalised it. That is the way things are.
(Ian, UK, 11 January 2010 10:54)
Ian, according to the posters here, the privilege of watching Serbia represent them with a seat in the UN and the ability to cheer on Serbian athletes at the Olympics is enough to bring Kosovo crawling back.
The truth is there is nothing that Serbia can dangle that will ever restart status talks, other than a negotiated recognition.

...or, else I sugest they build a wall between Kosova and Serbia, so nothing goes in or out in both sides. I am all for it,since we may at last both sides can have peace of mind once and for all.
(Kosova-USA, 11 January 2010, 13:40)

Good luck with that. If there was a wall anywhere it would be along the Ibar River and even then I doubt Serbs would go for it. The 3 northern municipalities have been, are, and will remain almost 100% Serbian. I don't know why you guys are trying to hang on and force your way in there to begin with.

Regardless, there will never be a barrier between Serbia proper and Kosovo because you cannot force 98% of an unwilling population to do something against its wished. It has been a disaster in the South in the 1990s and will be more of the same unless you guys get some sense.

Nikshala - An unambiguous decision in Serbia's favour is what would bring Kosovo back to the negotiating table, simply because Kosovo would be a non functioning state - much like it is now. Kosovo wouldn't be able to enter into any international agreements and foreign companies wouldn't invest due to the legal uncertainty. Whilst yourself and other Albanians state that they would prefer to live like this than be a part of Serbia, you are being naieve to believe that you are the masters of your own destiny. We all know that the US and EU are in charge and ultimately it's what they would decide that would decide Kosovo's fate. It would be impossible to imagine that the EU would allow Kosovo to be like a black hole in Europe when ultimately Serbia, BiH, Montenegro, Macedonia and Albania become members.

So if serbia wins it's case Kosovo's status will be negotiated and finalised - whatever the outcome i.e. staying a part of Serbia or becoming independent.

One way or another,this year, I think this will be the beginning of the end of Kosovo's unresolved status - whatever it may be.

Just like the Kosovo status is hindering Serbia's EU aspirations, so is Serbia Kosovo's. Look for the EU to the screws to the Albanians. Remember, Serbia is of far more benefit to Europe than totally underdeveloped, and money-draining Kosovo.

The only benefts to new talks would be for Serbian pride.
(pss, 11 January 2010 13:27)
--
Oh, this is not for Serbian pride, I can assure you. We can keep Kosovo's independence blocked indefinitely while Serbia continues to prosper.

This is to help the West unblock its short sighted policy on Kosovo, which is costing it dearly.

I believe the US/EU will force Pristina to negotiate because it needs to. This article mentions "hurting relations with American as the largest world power without whom there is no political or economic progress". Now that is true for ethnic Albanians but not Serbia as we have alternatives. They are your masters and regardless of the ICJ decision, it will open the door to negotiations - wait and see.

Don't worry too much, Serbia has no interest in ruling over Kosovo Albanians. You will be in control of the 60% of territory you occupy.

This is as I expected - a huge push will be made after the ICJ decision for negotiations.
Negotiations for Kosovo has my support.
I would say to Serbs that when this comes don't expect a bed of roses, in the end we will be forced to compromise beyond what we hoped. However, it will still be better for Serbs and Albanians in Kosovo.
To Albanians I say please come to the table, not for the sake of Serbs, but for you own sakes. Trust me when I say that Kosovo's status is seriously impeding foreign investment and regardless of the verdict many companies will refuse to invest because of the status question and that of organised crime (real or imagined). The Serb question is still dominating Kosovo discourse and holding back progress in other areas. If this was solved the people and politicians / media would be forced to focus more on daily issues of living that concern all the people in Kosovo. You should also remember (some of you will know this) that local 'networks' (ie certain politicians with connection to clans) don't want foreign investment in Kosovo because it will harm their control of both business and politics. In other words it is in their interest to keep the situation as it is.

So Ian you are utterly wrong. There are many reasons why (the people of) Kosovo shold negotiate with Serbia, above all self interest.

Instead of hearing the usual rejection from some Albanian posters I'd like to hear real logical, thought out reasons for rejecting talks. How will that benefit the people of Kosovo?

So Belgrade is in panic to find a speedy solution with Kosovo. Sorry I thought Kosovo would starve without Serbia's recognition, what just happend? And what happed to "no need to recognize Kosovo to enter EU"? I mean we are all aware Kosovo wont enter EU anytime soon and as such we are in no hurry to accept any solution which isnt in favour for our own citizens, state and our territorial integrity so you guys are aware this will only lead to recognition and nothing els to be asked from Serbia. Oh and UNSC wont pass a new resolution no matter how much Russian or Chines officials try, you know our allies too have this thing, what was it called again, oh yeah "VETO". I dont even need to mention who the strong ones will come out in history books.

No, YOUR EU membership is irreversibly blocked. The French told you las wekk and today the Germans (Wolfgang Ischinger) did. This year it will become official.

aRta,
You and I , can watch any news we wish, but ordinary Serbs are deprived of that. That is why , there is no news on Serb sites what Wolfgang said today.

Now Tabalija speaks for Jason, sometime Jason for Tabalija. I wonder if is the same person, but with identity crises at hand?
(Kosova-USA, 11 January 2010 20:14)

Yes, lets see here... How many frustrated claims has Kosovo-USA made?

- Jason is not American.

- Jason is an American but a very, very naughty one.

- Jason is Tabalija. (For the record I do not wish this because I would not get that free drink he promised me way back when).

-Jason is a midget Samoan transsexual with a Balkan fetish. (Ok, I made the last one up!)

You know, you should try and post intelligent comments regarding Kosovo sometime. Right now you just come off as a very angry guy obsessed with me:)

Well, I imagine many Serbs dislike me because I am American, but I would imagine that I would still be more qualified than Olf to try and speak from their perspective - even if he is Olf the slava-attending Albanian.

BTW - I see Roberto snubbed the summit... apparently some of us were to much for him to tolerate being in the same room with?
(Jason, 11 January 2010 15:35)

You're wrong Jason. I and I am sure many other Serbs dislike the loud and obnoxious American (your government and some people there especially) not the average American.

American people are for most part decent and want to do the honourable thing. The problem is that because of so much rubbish churned out there against the Serbs, they may not know what the right thing is.

A friend is ALWAYS welcome.

So Ian you are utterly wrong. There are many reasons why (the people of) Kosovo shold negotiate with Serbia, above all self interest.

Instead of hearing the usual rejection from some Albanian posters I'd like to hear real logical, thought out reasons for rejecting talks. How will that benefit the people of Kosovo?
(bganon, 11 January 2010 12:32)
bganon, turning the question only shows you have no answer. What can Serbia realistically offer to Kosovo that would entice a change? The only benefts to new talks would be for Serbian pride.
Unless Serbia begins with lets negotiate the terms for recognition there will never be new "status" talks.
However, some type of power sharing platform may receive international support, but I do not thnk you could muster any Serban support for such an idea.

Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed. 2010-2011 will be the Years of the Serbs - Serbia wins ICJ Kosovo ruling, RS becomes independent, Serbia wins genocide lawsuit against croatia, Djukanovic is brought to justice. Serbia wins World Cup??? probably no.

This will never happen, and if it does it will be on EU integration. Note what the French ambassador said yesterday when quoting President Sarkozy saying "It is not a condition for Serbia to recognise Kosovo but it is a condition to have neibourly dialogue between the two countries", in other words dialogue means recognising that government when recognising the government you really do recognise the state and so on...

I know you Serbs think that your politically advance but don't forget that your preaching to your teachers i.e. the French and the English who have by the way recognised Kosovo.

The crucial challenge lays in establishing a professional Kosovo government consisting of capable and non criminal people. Corruption and abuse of power are rising steadily. Kosovos foreign policy is a constant blackout, like its power supply. This is backing up Serbias ambition on Kosovo more than they ever expected. Obviously it is not a big challenge for Vuk Jeremic to knock out Mr.Hyseni, but the last one doesn't even start fighting. Ergo Kosovo is hanging in the air without any good perspective and Serbia is tottering between reformist modern policy with an EU-future or complaisant, populist backward slogans about Kosovo. A strong Kosovo government could create facts, which even Serbia would count with and finally accept them.

Or, else I sugest they build a wall between Kosova and Serbia, so nothing goes in or out in both sides.
(Kosova-USA, 11 January 2010 13:40)
--
Or do you mean building a wall through Kosovo since we are in control of 1/3 of the territory?

'What is insulting to the Serbian people is having a closet-Albanian like yourself try and speak about what they do or do not feel.
(Jason, 11 January 2010 13:10) '

Congratulations, Jason, you two have made it official?! You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?

B.Bokes - "Kosovo is already a member of the major world financial insitutions. In a couple of years it will eventually be a member of the United Nations --- if not it can always vote in referendum and join in confederate with Albania and thus be represented by Albania."

you've overlooked two small problems.
1) financial institutions - World bank and IMF membership could easily be reversed because at the moment the US and Eu have just enough votes to allow you into each organisation but the tide is turning with Chin, Brazil and Russia but to name a few demanding a greater say (and a greater share of the vote) at the IMF and World Bank. Unfortunately all these countries do not and will not recognise Kosovo.

2) join with Albania - If Serbia wins it's case at the ICJ and then Kosovo and Albania declare to "unify", that would be a legitimate and legal justification for Serbia to go to war not just with Kosovo but with Albania also. Even the US aren't so stupid to create another large regional war when they are already occupied in Iraq and Afghanistan. So what will happen is that you will get a slap in the face from your masters and told to behave yourself. i.e. kosovo will be stuck between a rock and a hard place.

It'll have no access to international finance, no international legitimacy and no hope of joining with Albania because the US and Eu are the masters of Albanians.

So what are your options? no legitimacy, no finance, no travel options, etc,etc. be my guest, be like a child throwing your toys out of the pram. sooner or later some bright albanian will realise that you can't exist like this forever and will accede to Serbian demands to talk. In the meantime Serbia will be on it's merry way into Europe.

being generous, your options are limited at best.

The only way Kosovo will sit and talk with Serbia about status is if Serbia has something to offer which is better than the current situation / status.
(nikshala, 11 January 2010 12:42)
--
Fortunately, it's not up to you to decide or Ian or anyone else living comfy in the West. It will ultimately be a decision for the people living in Kosovo to accept.

The West cannot deliver anything more than Serbia is offering. Independence is blocked while Serbia can also offer lasting peace and prosperity.

Ethnic Albanians need proper politicians that will help the province achieve a better future instead of keeping everyone stuck in the dead-end past.

There is no alternative to negotiations while the status quo is not sustainable and everyone agrees with that.

It sounds like the Serbian government has already forecasted this scenario; that the ICJ will rule in favour of Pristina and it is therefore rallying its much-beleaguered forces for another fruitless campaign to counter this eventuality.

"If they are ever to begin, it is an admission by ethnic Albanians that independence has failed. "

If that is the case then there will be no negotiations. Don't call for negotiation and then put down pre conditions that cannot be met. So you want negotiations but only if they come cap in hand? Likewise, the Pristina should not set pre conditions.

Ian,

Agreement is the solution. It must and will happen sooner or later. The alternative isn't worth thinking about.

Congratulations, Jason, you two have made it official?! You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?
(Amer, 11 January 2010, 15:04)

Well, I imagine many Serbs dislike me because I am American, but I would imagine that I would still be more qualified than Olf to try and speak from their perspective - even if he is Olf the slava-attending Albanian.

BTW - I see Roberto snubbed the summit... apparently some of us were to much for him to tolerate being in the same room with?

The only negotiation that will take place between Serbia and Kosova is for the North of Ibar region. If Serbia wants it they must exchange it for the Presheva region or Albania and Kosova join in one state.

pss ironic that you criticise me for turning the question round! You did not give me rational reasons why neogitations should be rejected, that was all I asked. I didn't ask for blood!

As far as Serbian pride is concerned, it would be a small victory for current government policy yes. But for Serbian pride as a whole, no. Besides, if we all come out of talks with no deals, its a failure all round.
Besides, what you are really talking about here is supposed Albanian humiliation at taking part right? You are sooo wrong to think in this self destructive way. It is never defeat to try to help your people.

B Bokes 'Serbia and Kosovo have a million reason to sit down and talk. Everyone familiar with the situation knows this but the Serb side has always insisted on certain preconditions before any talks begun.'

What preconditions??? I would say that Albanians are not just disatisfied with the current Kosovo government. They are disatisfied with the international rulers, they are disatisfied with the lack of investment and the corruption. If nothing else a deal with Serbia / Serbs will ease some of these problems.

I still do not have any logical reasons why talks should not begin.

Talks? Nearly two years of talks brought no results. The only talks could be about the Kosovar missing in Serbia proper...maybe a negotiated solution where we give up the north for Presheva Valley (Bujanoc & Medvegj) and our rightful recognition from Serbia. Of course, that will never happen.

Who wouldn't want to have talks with the current clowns in Belgrade?

Talks? Nearly two years of talks brought no results. The only talks could be about the Kosovar missing in Serbia proper...maybe a negotiated solution where we give up the north for Presheva Valley (Bujanoc & Medvegj) and our rightful recognition from Serbia. Of course, that will never happen.

Who wouldn't want to have talks with the current clowns in Belgrade?
(KOSOVARi, 11 January 2010 20:20)

Talks brough no results, because K-Albanians have unrealistic demands. Let's back to reality - Kosovo will be never "independent".

I still do not have any logical reasons why talks should not begin.
(bganon, 11 January 2010 19:35)

First of all I want to make sure we are only talking about reasons for rejecting any status negotiations. Because Kosovo government has been willing and is willing to talk to the Serbian side for any negotiations that are of technical matter and would benefit the citizens of both countries.

I am not sure what your criteria for a rational reason are, but I’ll make an attempt to give you a few. I am sure there are more:

1. The outcome of the negotiations is already pre-determined by the Serbian side: anything but independence and Kosovo’s is nothing but independence. So no matter what there is a fundamental disagreement between the two that no negotiations, especially no speedy negotiations recommended by the Serbian gov’t, will be able to resolve this fundamental issue. Only a recommended solution is feasible in this case.
2. The 98-99 conflict in Kosovo has proved once again that the Serbian government was and is not concerned about the people of Kosovo (especially Albanians) but only for the land itself. The conflict and the planned ethnic cleansing was state organized, it wasn’t just some militia or a sect of the government. These were elected people of the Serbian government who did this. How is Kosovo ever going to trust Serbian government that they won’t do the same thing again? There is no guarantee and therefore there is no going back to Serbian rule. We had autonomy and that was taken away from us, there is nothing that will guarantee that the same thing won’t happen again in the future.
3. Up to this point the Serbian government has been successful in convincing their own people that the EU integration process and Kosovo status are two different issues and can be dealt with in parallels. In other words you can still ‘keep’ Kosovo and join the EU. Unfortunately that’s not the case as this article shows. Serbia is interested and must improvee its relations with Kosovo gov’t. because the majority of EU countries will not allow Serbia to join the EU without improving the relations with the government of Kosovo. So the way I see it, it is Serbia in a more dire need to resolve the Kosovo issue in order to join EU and not Kosovo. We all know that Serbia’s path to EU currently is ahead of Kosovo’s. So why would Kosovo help Serbia get faster to EU?
4. As far as Kosovo internal affairs are concerned it would be a political suicide for any party or individual to even hint on any status negotiations with Serbia. This could eventually lead to an unstable government and political stagnation and progress in the country (Kosovo) that no one, not even Serbia would want to deal with. Most of the Kosovo population (excluding the Serbs) does not want to go back to Serbian rule.
5. It seems like Serbia is willing to make this diplomatic push on status negotiations despite what the outcome of the ICJ opinion is (at least that’s what I understand from the article); as the article says, “Steps have been taken to immediately, “literally the day after the opinion of the International Court of Justice in The Hague is given, to call a meeting of the UN Security Council”, says the newspaper.” This to me confirms that the Serbian government is not interested in the outcome of the opinion and more on the final goal on trying to keep Kosovo as a part of Serbia. Therefore, the Kosovo government will not commit to status negotiations with a country that would not recognize the opinion of the ICJ if it favors Kosovo. Why would the status negotiations be needed if ICJ opinion is in favor of the Kosovo government? Why has this special Security Council meeting request?

Kosovars will never, never, never sacrifice independence that is fact that Serbia has to get used to it. It is open to negotiate everything else exept the independence. It is a closed issue.
(B.Bokes, 11 January 2010 14:38)

thank you, b bokes, and keep on posting -- it's nice to have some friendly company.

as for the obnoxious americans: there are more of them here than you can shake a stick at. aussie(s) as well. which does not change my opinion one little bit re the beautiful and spiritied aussies that i have met.

the thing is, don't wanna hear my opinion, don't bring up my name in vain. someone just figured that out...

i think it is perfectly clear that most pro-independence people are also pro-negotiations -- it is a twist of truth (a lie) to say we are not. but our independence is not on the chopping block -- is yours?! :))

and one little news item -- a good frnd is applying for a position with the new kosovar govt. actually we're pretty excited about it, and i think they will make a great addition. we shall see...

ciao!

roberto, just back from pristina

ps ataman goes thru busy spurts w/his work, and will no doubt return when he has the time.

we used to say that every generation has to fight for our freedom.Seems that this say is not old fashonned at all,when listening to projects! So let's be prepared for the next clash!

Maybe Kosovar politicians should change strategy and flirt a little with the idea of unification with Albania. You know, release a trial balloon, leak a 'plan' to the press, an 'inconsiderate' statement, something that would raise the steaks a little...Belgrade is toying with fire, so why not give a foretaste of what could happen?
Because when Serbia talks of negotiations it really means partition. And if partition happens, the north-less Kosovo becomes part of Albania, without Trepca but with the enclaves, with Gracanica and Decani.
It has to be made clear to Belgrade that its current course is only radicalizing K-Albanians a little more. Remember that KLA only gained widespread support when Serbia stepped up its murderous actions against civilians. So it is in the interest of Serbia, and of the Serb population in Kosovo, first and foremost, that it exist as an independent state.
Then we can negotiate about things that are really important to people, not fantasies.

"I know serbs find it difficult to understand, but anything is better than being part of Serbia again.

The only issue still open is the 'North' which in my opinion is still unresolved.
(nikshala, 11 January 2010, 12:42)"

I'm not Serb but what I find difficult to understand is the inability or unwillingness of K-Albanians to see the importance and benefit of resolving the status issue. It is essential if you want to progress.

For clarity, I cannot see any negotiations that result in the Albanian majority coming under Serbian control or significant influence. It is 2010 and you just don't know what solutions there might be - so why not talk?

JohnBoy - "Serbia wins world cup????" Stranger things have happened, but I think there is more chance of finding Elvis alive.

Oh and UNSC wont pass a new resolution no matter how much Russian or Chines officials try, you know our allies too have this thing, what was it called again, oh yeah "VETO". I dont even need to mention who the strong ones will come out in history books.
(Pejoni, 11 January 2010 17:16)

Clearly you need a lesson on how the Security Council works.

>You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?
(Amer,

Jason spells better. Speaks better? Unlike the other one he certainly sounds like someone I would drink with although I think it would end badly by 4 am sometime. But all in all. None of you speak for Serbs. You’re not Serbs. You dont even know Serbs.
And you run along now.
(Tabalija, 11 January 2010 19:43)

Now Tabalija speaks for Jason, sometime Jason for Tabalija. I wonder if is the same person, but with identity crises at hand?

The article in Blic http://www.blic.rs/Vesti/Tema-Dana/171815/Diplomatski-rat-za-nove-pregovore-o-Kosovu- doesn't say the talks will be presented to the UNSC as status talks - the idea is to present them simply as talks about problems of mutual concern, then - at the very last moment - to bring up the question of status.

No matter whether anything is accomplished, Serbia will be able to tell the EU that it has no outstanding problems with any of its neighbors - it's negotiating with Kosovo. With Kosovo not getting anything until the agreement is finally signed, and Serbia insisting on some kind of formal recognition of sovereignty for this to happen. This will give it time to revive its own economy (because foreign companies will be reassured that Kosovo won't be a threat to Serbia's entry into the EU) while continuing to destabilize Kosovo's (because its final status will be unclear until some agreement is reached that requires Serbia's consent).

Notice the emphasis on a quick breakthrough (to get negotiations started) - when a salesman pushes for a quick signature, you know you'd better reread the contract.

You mean Albania will become a province of Serbia? Wow, interesting proposal!
(Zoran, 11 January 2010 20:51)

Honestly I woulnd't mind such outcome cause under such scenario I could see Belgrade become Albanian before your grandshildren reach 18.

Ziveli.

What is it with Serbs and their hyperboles? What's the fascination with them? Here we have the government declaring "Battle for negotiations" or "Battle for solutions". First not only this is a hyperbole but it is also an oxymoron. Since Serbia claims it wants peaceful solutions, and negotiations then things such as "Battle for negotiations" and "Battle for peaceful solutions" are nonexistent; simply because battle and peaceful are mutually exclusive. They are simply a figment of imagination of myth-makers in Belgrade who by using such hyperboles want to stir deep emotional feelings in the average Joe; make him "aware" how strong their government is "fighting" so they should "fight" with the government also. This website is a good example of that "fighting".

The previous hyperbole came from the former Serbian prime minister about 2 years ago. Kostunica stated that he and his country was in a Holy War with the US and the West. First of all there was no war going on at the time. Second Serbia challenging the West to a Holy War not only is a pipe-dream but also schizophrenic on so many levels. Freud would have a great specimen in Kostunica based on the so many jewels he produced while governing the Serbs. Third although a pipe-dream, and schizophrenic, Kostunica's hyperbolic jewel had the same goal as these "battles for negotiations" have. That is to stir deep emotional feelings in the average Joe; make him "aware" how strong their government is "fighting" so they should "fight" with the government also. The only thing is though that there is really no war going on thus no battles, and nothing to fight over a battle when there is no war be it holy or unholy.
How about being a little more realistic next time. First step would be to remove terms such as Holy Wars, Battles, Fights, from Belgrade's government. Terms like that do not belong to the heart of Europe. I wouldn't be surprised if I heard them from the Iranian government but such anachronism in the heart of Europe, coming from those that claim to be so superior and advanced over those they were persecuting yesterday, has no place. Such anachronism, such myth-making, such oxymorons and hyperboles spell nothing but disease for people's minds, and conflict for our peoples in the Balkans. You wanna work for negotiations? That's fine, however poisoning people with imaginary Holy Wars and fake Battles is not fine. It is irresponsible and reprehensible.

>You are now the official English-language spokesman for "the Serbian people"?
(Amer,

Jason spells better. Speaks better? Unlike the other one he certainly sounds like someone I would drink with although I think it would end badly by 4 am sometime. But all in all. None of you speak for Serbs. You’re not Serbs. You dont even know Serbs.
And you run along now.

If you want to talk about more territories Yes why not, Preseva, Bujanoc, Medveda, Teplica, Sijarina, we can accept all this, and than we can sign an act after that we will not ask any more from SERBIA, northern than USCE near BG
Thanks IR

"Belgrade, “naturally”, writes this newspaper, reacts negatively to ever step towards cooperation with Kosovo by its neighbors, “deteriorating” relations in the region."

Notice the position of Serbia, (or of the newspaper which wrote this): "cooperation brings deterioration". this must seem so absurd and contradicting to outsiders, EU included. And this absurdity happens "naturally", according to the newspaper, so Serbian government can not do anything about it.
Or maybe the double quotes in "naturally", and in "deteriorating" mean that it is not very natural, and they're not deteriorating? "Why" "do" "journalists" "in" "the" "Balkans" "write" "such" "confusing" "articles"?

I still do not have any logical reasons why talks should not begin.
(bganon, 11 January 2010 19:35
It depends,if you are talking about talks between Kosovo and Serbia on issues pertaining to the 2 and its people talks should be started.
If you are talking about status talks, it would be fruitless.
Serbia has said they will never agree to independence, Kosovo will never agree to less. Unless one side or the other is willing to compromise there will never be talks.
My question to you is what is different at this point that Serbia could possibly put on the table that would create a desire for resuming talks, outside of saying we will recognize the independence of Kosovo under the following condtions?

Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed. 2010-2011 will be the Years of the Serbs - Serbia wins ICJ Kosovo ruling, RS becomes independent, Serbia wins genocide lawsuit against croatia, Djukanovic is brought to justice. Serbia wins World Cup??? probably no.
(JohnBoy, 11 January 2010 15:55)
I disagree about the Issue of Serbia winning the ICJ ruling ,as The Kosovo issue is done and dusted,as realistically no-one can deny that.
But, on the other hand when you mentioned: Serbia winning the World Cup, that might happen, As an Albanian I would support Serbia to win the world cup instead of England for example where i live,It is easier for Serbia to win the world cup than it was for Greece winning the euro cup 4 eyars ago As Serbia has the players to do it.

Cheers

>Partition of Kosovo, special status for Gracanica,Visoki Decani, And Pecka Patriarsija. and Partition of BiH would be most realistic solution for the Balkans.
(Nebojsa

Well its realistic in the sense that its what the regime works on. Take North, take Rs. There will be no Rs independence just unification. I really laugh when I read about it. There is not Serb alive in Rs who wants indepednence. Remember how the war started? Muslims wanted to force independence. 20 years later Serbs will win the war. Anyway this takes time. Maybe things will be upset a little in Montenegro just to help talks along but nothing serious. Albanians could help if they provoke in north or less possibly in Presevo valley that would be much appreciated.

"None of you speak for Serbs. You’re not Serbs. You dont even know Serbs.
And you run along now.
(Tabalija, 11 January 2010 19:43) "

Which makes me wonder - why is this page in English?

Now these days I don't like to write about anything as we have so many experts in here and I wonder maybe Serbia and Kosova will use some of knowledge in here for the future negotiations!!!

Peace and Love from London!!!
(louie, 11 January 2010 18:36)

__________

Peace and Love to London!!!

Louie, come back - we need a few kind-hearted souls. Some of us can use google, some have on-the-scene information, some have lived in the area forever, and some provide a constant reminder of why everything is so difficult. But good nature is always in short supply.

I'll shut up if you'll come back. Deal? (There are plenty of people these days who can google.)

pss, blue and gold, kos
The history and conflict and negotiation show that it IS possible that two sides with opposite viewpoints CAN find a solution. So questions such as 'what could they possibly put on the table' are excuses to not sit round the table. I could equally say, 'what could be possibly lost'.

Two sides with opposing viewpoints do not give up before talks have even been held and the whole point of talks is to air / express possible solutions that have not been considered before, to horse trade and if necessary, to exhaust the other side into submission! Far better than war I hope you agree.

I mean with that negative attitude the IRA and Ulster Freedom Fighters would still be waging a terrorist war in Northern Ireland. I think its the wrong attitude and whats more I suspect you know it.

2 Yes the leadership of Serbia care about ownership of Kosovo more than they do about the people, but so does Kosovo Albanian leaders. Newsflash all the Balkans looks at land this way and hey lets not be dishonest - supposedly 'advanced' western countries also behave like this when it comes to land. Again, regardless who did what to whom first and who suffered more, in order to prevent future suffering one has to come to the table. In every conflict one side suffers more - do not think you or the situation of Kosovo are any more special than any other area. No Serbian government forces would be able to march around Kosovo in the way that happened in 1999. In talks Albanians would not allow it and the internationals would not allow it. That would be one of the concessions that Serbia would be forced to make, if that kind of deal was made.
3 Serbia will not join the EU within the next 5 years at the earliest - so if you are saying you are prepared for Kosovo to suffer for that period of time in some foolish effort to make Serbia also suffer, not only do we both lose but you will suffer more in that period at least - on this topic, if you are right that is.

4 I know that and appreciate it. We would have to be imaginative in this regard. I think that everything has to be on the table but I think that Serbia would 'behave' if status (if only of the north) was to be discussed and state publicly that it was 'talks' rather than status talks. Belgrade must behave in such a situation, because if they don't the Albanian side could just walk out. So much for status talks! Your side btw will also feel it has a stronger position because of your sense that you have everything already.

5 you are confusing two things here - Belgrade launching a campaign for the re-opening of status talks is not the same thing as Belgrade re-launching its campaign for Kosovo to remain in Serbia. You must get it into your head that these are not the same thing - although the public on both sides will believe it is.

No matter what the ICJ decision, it does not solve Kosovo's problems, one of the primary being status. Belgrade nor Pristina will just roll over, go home and say 'ok, we lost fair and square'. No, the future will be decided at peace conferences / negotiations.

'In any event, all of this is speculation and I will simply repeat my 2010 wish I shared with Amer yesterday: if both sides "agree to disagree", stay in their respective spheres of influence and don't do anything to disrupt the other side, I'll be jumping for joy and breaking out the moonshine.

And that would be cause to celebrate at our Kafana Summit.
(Mike, 11 January 2010 17:47)'

A holding pattern doesn't sound all that bad, compared to what the hyperactive Mr. Jeremic may be planning. Just letting enough time pass has much to be said for it.

Here's a link I'd send to an Ataman post (if he hadn't given up on us and stopped posting): http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/11/world/europe/11train.html?hpw

"Train Line Across the Balkans Restitches a Region"

(Lots of pictures)

Here's the quote I like: “I think young people realize that nationalism and racism are wrong because we are all from the same flesh,” Mr. Mehmedagic said. “I am half-Muslim and half-Serb and I’m proud of it.” The three young men said they no longer wanted to be defined along ethnic or religious lines but viewed themselves simply as Bosnians. They believed that their people were ready to move beyond the ethnic divisions that led their parents’ generation to war, they said, if their leaders stopped agitating for political gain."

I also liked the price - $45 round trip, Sarajevo to Belgrade and back.

Mister likes a pub in Belgrade with live music, but also Sarajevo - this could be a traveling Kafana summit.

A last suggestion: we invite all those American history teachers currently being laid off in the States to come to the Balkans and teach kids how to forget history the way they do at home. (Do you have any idea how many kids think that we fought against Russia on the side of the Germans and Italians in WWII? That is, if they can even place WWII in the correct century. )

louie mate, I've thought more than once about leaving this site over the years. At times it gets to inundated with nationalistic nonsense that I often wonder if it's worth it. But then I realize that if people like you and me leave, the Kosova-USAs and rasos win. I'm happy that people like Amer are becoming more active contributors on this site. Like you, I don't always agree with what he writes, but I've got to appreciate what he writes.

So in the name of sanity, keep contributing. I'll take a comment by you any day over the nonsensical Albanian hypernationalists.

Jason mate, keep rattling that ego of your best friend here ;)

Amer,

Born, bred, and live in NJ. Over the years I've developed somewhat of an unhealthy sense of local nationalism to the point that I wouldn't mind if self-determination movements cropped up elsewhere around the country. I'll happily live in a smaller NJ/NYC oblast (though for reasons only New Jerseyites could explain, we love our state but PLEASE can someone take Camden?)

And let's leave California alone from some of our more zealous Albanian friends here. While it would be funny to see what happens, don't you think CA has enough problems already?

As for the frequent "mate" references, I also find myself saying "aye" a lot too. I think it might be the cyber exposure to internationals on this site. Rest assured, a native "howyadoin" will be proudly spoken in my native land :)

Jason, nope wasn't in Kosovo Province in 2008. Just in June 2009. Though I think if I ever did work for UNMIK I'd share similar sentiments as you. I will repeat however my rather pleasant surprise to find as vibrant (and flippant) a community in Gracanica as I did - the power generator thing was such a kick (literally sometimes). That place has strong potential to grow into fully functioning Serbian administration center for central and southern Kosovo.

Why not just let the Albanians battle it out with the Serbs?

This is the way all things are settled. The mighty, smarter takes all.

Independence is blocked while Serbia can also offer lasting peace and prosperity.

(Zoran, 11 January 2010 14:28)

Wow, you speak like Serbia is controlling Kosovo's fate. The maximum you can say is that Serbia can influence N. Mitrovica, but for the rest Serbia's control has ended 10 yrs ago. However, please feel free to think that Serbia is in control if that makes you feel better...

"American people are for most part decent and want to do the honourable thing. The problem is that because of so much rubbish churned out there against the Serbs, they may not know what the right thing is.
A friend is ALWAYS welcome."
(Peggy)

-- Now you're just making me blush :P

Dammit Amer why do you have to make me chuckle so much?

1. I sincerely hope Ataman hasn't left. Though he does end up having some sort of crazy adventure anywhere between Gracanica and St. Petersburg now and again. I suspect he's off now because he'd have immediately picked up joining our Summit/Drinking Party.

2. "Train Line Across the Balkans Restitches a Region"
My God, what's this world coming to.... people actually thinking outside their 19th century Imagined Community (and if you get the title, cheers)

3. I think Mister is speaking of Tramvaj. A decent place indeed, and a 5 minute walk to "6 i 400", one of the best kafane in Belgrade (rakija shots for under 100 RSD)

4. "we invite all those American history teachers currently being laid off in the States to come to the Balkans and teach kids how to forget history the way they do at home."

-- Holy Hand Grenade, don't remind me. I'm a college teacher myself and I've come to realize what's nostalgic for me is ancient history for this crop of youngins' Ugh. A few years ago a student asked what a Commodore 64 was since I mentioned it in a lecture, and without missing a beat I said it was the early 1980s singing precursor to Blink-182. He wrote it down. That was at Princeton.

5. And for the love of Bob, don't "shut up" (your response to louie). I daresay he had you in mind when he wrote that.

Anyways, the evening beer is happily settling in me now. I'm taking the rest of the evening off (that's probably a lie but I gotta at least make an attempt).

Cheers mate

Man how many times do we have to go through this. What you say is unrealistic to us and what we say is unrealistic to you. What you propose is unrealistic to us and what we propose is unrealistic to you. Ok now that we get that I'll do the honors and state the obvious. Now back to reality Kosova is not a Serb province either.

Do you get why talks or negotiations don't matter now?
(johny, 12 January 2010 05:06)
Do You think, that after US support for break international law Kosovo will be member of world community with full rights???? This is really unrealistic myth. Kosovo have no chance to join UN/EU and will be really european "black hole".

Parts of Kosovo territory is outside albanian autorities, use serbian law, serbian money, serbian licence plates, take power from Serbia, is part of serbian school and post system, footbal or basketball teams play in serbian leagues, Železnice Srbije operates trains in North Kosovo, president of Serbia going in and uot without mr Thaci acceptance... This is "independence"???? No my friend. Is US/EU protectorate.

maybe jason is kosovo-usa... hmmm?

...And to think that the issue was over...It's just getting started!

Talks brough no results, because K-Albanians have unrealistic demands. Let's back to reality - Kosovo will be never "independent".
(Milan, 11 January 2010 23:03)

Man how many times do we have to go through this. What you say is unrealistic to us and what we say is unrealistic to you. What you propose is unrealistic to us and what we propose is unrealistic to you. Ok now that we get that I'll do the honors and state the obvious. Now back to reality Kosova is not a Serb province either.

Do you get why talks or negotiations don't matter now?

But hey look at the LTTE (Tamil Tigers)in Sri Lanka, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the PKK in SE Turkey. All these resistance groups operated without NATO air power (unlike the KLA) and made major sacrifices and gains in their operations. The KLA did not- hence you're not independent. You are only owned and owe.
(Milan, 13 January 2010 03:16)

The Tamils have been all but wiped out. Hezbollah was neutered. PKK is irrelevant and its leader jaied. KLA is in power in its own country.

Tell me again who are the smart ones?

Lastly, thank you for realizing that KLA was a resistance group.

New Year started,a lot of new things happened,while in here nothing changed!

I found B92 a place where you could read different opinions when I joined many years ago,in some ways you could get involved, became friends with some,Matthew,Mike,...
There were always disagreements between us,but at least we left room for explanations without insulting anyone!

Now these days I don't like to write about anything as we have so many experts in here and I wonder maybe Serbia and Kosova will use some of knowledge in here for the future negotiations!!!

Peace and Love from London!!!

Peggy: except soldiers who are honourable decent people even when they'll illiterate stupid bastards.. I wont go into explaining that now :), but except them there are no regular Americans in Kosovo.

>Jason is a midget Samoan transsexual with a Balkan fetish

Arent we all! Eh KosovoUSA? ;)

Btw Jason like our wise knucklehead leaders say we agree to disagree.. was it? But that drink still stands.

Jason mate, keep rattling that ego of your best friend here ;)
(Mike, 11 January 2010 23:39)

Glad you enjoy, Mike. I know I do.

On an unrelated note... were you by chance sent here in August 2008 for work with UNMIK?

I know you Serbs think that your politically advance but don't forget that your preaching to your teachers i.e. the French and the English who have by the way recognised Kosovo.
(Krasniq't, 12 January 2010 14:33)

Then Serbia doesn't enter EU, simple.
But "Kosova" doesn't enter EU either and neither it enters the UN.

Serbia can live a lot better without EU but how will "Kosova" go without EU and UN?

'Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed.


(JohnBoy, 11 January 2010 15:55) '

Whatever country held the presidency would have put Kosovo on the agenda - it's time for the quarterly report - the one sure time these days you're practically guaranteed a Zannier-sighting.

Serbia does not have to wait for the ICJ to rule before getting Kosovo discussed at the UN Security Council - China put Kosovo on the agenda this month. Whenever a country on the Council who has an ax to grind against the us assumes the Council presidency, Kosovo will be discussed. 2010-2011 will be the Years of the Serbs - Serbia wins ICJ Kosovo ruling, RS becomes independent, Serbia wins genocide lawsuit against croatia, Djukanovic is brought to justice. Serbia wins World Cup??? probably no.
(JohnBoy, 11 January 2010 15:55)
Sorry to burst your bubble but China did not put Kosovo on the agenda, it assigned the schedule for the regular meeting in which was to take place in January.
The UNSG will present his report, the Special Representative will tell how his office is no longer effective. Afew countries led by the US will discuss the successes of the Kosovo govt and the implementation of the Ahtissari Plan and some countries led by Russia will insist on continuance of the status "neutrality" meaning the UN is not to refer to Kosovo as an independent state but also cannot refer to it as a province of Serbia. However, individual states may do as they please.
Then B92 will run an article hghlighting what Jeremic said and dismissing any opposing comments, readers here will line up on their respectve sides and throw stones at the other side.
Otherwise it will just be another day in the neighborhood.

"Holy Hand Grenade, don't remind me."

So you got the Monty Python reference.

"Hands across the water, heads across the sky ..."

Is that what you had in mind? for the train reference?

"mate"?

Where are you from, buddy?

BTW, do you think we could persuade some of the Kosovo self-determination specialists here to go do missionary work in California? Wouldn't it be great if they'd declare independence and stop trying to get the rest of us to bail them out? Or maybe they'd just share some of those Scandanavian budgetary experts our Left Coast friends so dearly need to listen to.

Kosovo-USA - when you're done with those experts on budgeting and tax-setting, maybe you could ship them to California?

Jason, nope wasn't in Kosovo Province in 2008. Just in June 2009. Though I think if I ever did work for UNMIK I'd share similar sentiments as you. I will repeat however my rather pleasant surprise to find as vibrant (and flippant) a community in Gracanica as I did - the power generator thing was such a kick (literally sometimes). That place has strong potential to grow into fully functioning Serbian administration center for central and southern Kosovo.
(Mike, 12 January 2010 18:13)

Ah, Ok Mike... I am from north Jersey myself, not far from Giants Stadium. I had you in mind possibly as another Mike who I came back here with the year prior.

Anyway, yes, Gracanica has a real vibe to it but my favorite spot has got to be Zvecan. A pretty town with history, a strong spirit - and, some excellent places to have some domaci rakija:)

Why not just let the Albanians battle it out with the Serbs?

This is the way all things are settled. The mighty, smarter takes all.
(Clooney, 12 January 2010 18:24)

This is something that ALbanian militant Adem Demaci wanted. He believed that true independence could only come from an ALbanian gun. Sadly the KLA which was the biggest advocate of independence didn't have the stomach for a real fight and hence followed a strategy outlined by greater powers. Provocation, intimidation of their own and finally staged massacres.
Now I'll probably hear complaints from the K-A side of how were the KLA to fight "Europe's 4th biggest army". Simple really- Don't start a fight you can't finish! But hey look at the LTTE (Tamil Tigers)in Sri Lanka, Hezbollah in Lebanon, the PKK in SE Turkey. All these resistance groups operated without NATO air power (unlike the KLA) and made major sacrifices and gains in their operations. The KLA did not- hence you're not independent. You are only owned and owe.

(johny, 13 January 2010 20:13)

Johny - You can dreaming, that You live in "independent" state, that Kosovo have "european perspective" and whatever You want. But fact is one - Kosovo really is part of Republic of Serbia under international protectorate. And I belive that ICJ will confirm, that declaration of separatist from 17 February 2008 was illegal. And this will be reason for new status talks. End.

The serbian constitution it is clear.Kosovo is part of Serbia.Since for most of the Serbs Kosovo is not independent and will never be independent.What is that Serbia is going to negotiate?And with whom is serbia going to negotiate?What happened to: Kosovo will not be a problem for Serbia' EU membership?

A bit bold for Belgrade to call for new negotiations even before the ICJ concludes its review. Perhaps they know something we don't or they're planning on preempitve damage control?

Looking at all the facts and figures, I'm still of the opinion the ICJ will designate Kosovo a status neutral entity (basically coming right back to what Ischinger was proposing 3 years ago). While official status talks probably won't be on the table, we can assume "talks" would be primarily between Belgrade and EULEX, and not Pristina (at least while the current leadership is at the helm).

The major sticking block is the United States. If Belgrade can get Washington off its back and truly hand Kosovo to the EU, Belgrade is in a far better negotiating position. If the US remains staunchly supportive of anything Pristina wants, such talks will be fruitless because the Albanians will feel no need to negotiate.

I agree nearly 100% with bganon (as I frequently do) that even in light of new talks, Belgrade's going to have to make some serious sacrifices - the most serious being probably a recognition that Kosovo is indefintely under the control of some international representation while making technical agreements with said representation of having a more visible presence in the 6 - 8 Serb-dominant enclaves.

In any event, all of this is speculation and I will simply repeat my 2010 wish I shared with Amer yesterday: if both sides "agree to disagree", stay in their respective spheres of influence and don't do anything to disrupt the other side, I'll be jumping for joy and breaking out the moonshine.

And that would be cause to celebrate at our Kafana Summit.

Do You think, that after US support for break international law Kosovo will be member of world community with full rights???? This is really unrealistic myth. Kosovo have no chance to join UN/EU and will be really european "black hole".

Parts of Kosovo territory is outside albanian autorities, use serbian law, serbian money, serbian licence plates, take power from Serbia, is part of serbian school and post system, footbal or basketball teams play in serbian leagues, Železnice Srbije operates trains in North Kosovo, president of Serbia going in and uot without mr Thaci acceptance... This is "independence"???? No my friend. Is US/EU protectorate.
(Milan, 12 January 2010 11:58)

Milan I disagree with you on the international law interpretation as no Serb has yet pointed me an international law that specifically states that declarations of independence are illegal.
Having said that do you see me even bothering if the Serbs in their areas use Serb license plates, don't take part on the Kosova soccer league, trains operated by Serbs where Serbs live, if power is taken from Serbia or if they schools follow Serb curriculum? Do you see me even getting bothered when Tadic visits Serb areas? Do you know why? It simple. Because frankly I do not give a damn what Serbs do in their areas, they can live the way they want to live and how they wish to live. I don't care its their lives.
Now let me ask you why then are you so bothered about how Albanians live and govern themselves in their areas? Why do you care whether we are independent or a protectorate? What's all the fixation or fascination on whether us Albanians make it to the EU or not? If you do not want to tell us how to live, if you do not want to govern us, if you do not want to have to do anything with us what is then all this animosity about how we live, who we ally ourselves with, what we follow etc.? What's up with that? What's with this obsession and fascination? Let go, how we live is none of your business.

P.S Serbia is not allowed to fly into areas of proper Serbia, and/or conduct certain activities in certain areas within Serbia proper. That Milan is not full-right and is not how a respected member of world community is treated. Don't believe me? Simple compare it with those you don't like the most; Albania. Albania can fly anywhere it wants within the country and can have it military and other activities anywhere it wants withing the country. Respected or not respected it can do anything within the country that the world community has barred Serbia from doing. So again reflect on yourselves before preaching others.

Lastly, thank you for realizing that KLA was a resistance group.
(Zoti, 13 January 2010 16:56)


I wouldn't go that far. The KLA claim to be a resistance group but only proved themselves to fold like cheap Chinese mattresses when the time come. I pointed out the other groups just to point out the difference between a 'real' resistance group and that of criminal organisation that will enslave the majority of the so-called 2million K-Albs. Wait and see.

(Milan, 13 January 2010 03:16)

You have right Serbia or former Yugoslavia was the 4th biggest army. Serbia was powerful enough to start couple of war and loose almost all. Serbia is able to keep Kosovo in trouble thanks the Russian support. On the other hand, Kosovo got the independence thanks to USA and European support. I do not know who is smarter here, but the truth is that Kosovo is INDEPENDENT and recognition process is moving forward slowly but surely. Serbian government is dreaming about renegotiation, which means to repeat something the just failed once. Repeating it now after 65 recognitions is a tough or impossible job, especially because Albanians and these 65 countries do not need that. I do not think that Jeremic is stupid. This is just the way how he can stay in power as foreign minister. This is a good job, for sure. You can go whenever you want around the world for free. Government pays, just need to declare: I am trying to bring Kosovo back.

Johny - You can dreaming, that You live in "independent" state, that Kosovo have "european perspective" and whatever You want. But fact is one - Kosovo really is part of Republic of Serbia under international protectorate. And I belive that ICJ will confirm, that declaration of separatist from 17 February 2008 was illegal. And this will be reason for new status talks. End.
(Milan, 13 January 2010 22:49)

The difference between us and you guys is that we are more than ok with whatever you want to believe will happen; or is actually happening. You on the other time seem to have a hard time that we don't see things the same way as you do or believe the same things as you about the situation now or in the future. That is your problem however, not ours. We're doing just fine whether you want to see things our way or your way doesn't matter one bit to us.

I do not know who is smarter here, but the truth is that Kosovo is INDEPENDENT and recognition process is moving forward slowly but surely.
(Luan, 14 January 2010 00:22)

You are wrong - Kosovo is PSEUDOINDEPENDENT separatist territory on the territory of Republic of Serbia.

The difference between us and you guys is that we are more than ok with whatever you want to believe will happen; or is actually happening. You on the other time seem to have a hard time that we don't see things the same way as you do or believe the same things as you about the situation now or in the future. That is your problem however, not ours. We're doing just fine whether you want to see things our way or your way doesn't matter one bit to us.
(johny, 14 January 2010 01:01)

No my friend - this is not my or Your problem. This is EUROPEAN PROBLEM. You need to broke international law. You need to open Pandora box.
You - Albanian minority in Serbia need to be independent?? So - why not serbian minority in Kosovo?? Or in Bosnia?? Do You support right of peoples from North, Gracanica or Strpce to live in their own country - Republic of Serbia????

ou need to broke international law. You need to open Pandora box.
You - Albanian minority in Serbia need to be independent?? So - why not serbian minority in Kosovo?? Or in Bosnia?? Do You support right of peoples from North, Gracanica or Strpce to live in their own country - Republic of Serbia????
(Milan, 14 January 2010 15:38)

Milan or any Serb can you point me to the international law that specific that specifically states that " Declarations of Independence are Illegal"; since that is one of the two possible direct answer to Serbia's question. The other being "Declarations of Independence are not illegal" because there is no international law that regulates declarations of independence. If you cannot point me to such an international law then there is no illegality; especially considering that you guys, meaning Serbia doesn't consider Kosova a state. So in your own logic there has been no new state and there is no law that regulates declarations of independence hence there is no instance of illegality. Simple as that.

To answer the other question. I support the right of any people to be independent. I've stated it here before. If the Serbs in the North, If those in Gracanica, If those in Bosnia declare and have international support for their independence then not only I support it but based on that they are by all means Independent. To sum up I believe that anyone can declare independence and anyone that gathers international support for their independence IS independent. No need for the blessing of those you don't wanna live with. It has always been the case; that's how the majority of states have come to fruition.