President Boris Tadić today reacted to his Croatian counterpart Stjepan <a href="http://www.b92.net/eng/news/region-article.php?yyyy=2010&mm=01&dd=07&nav_id=64308" class="text-link" target= "_blank">Mesić's decision</a> to shorten prison sentence of a Croat war criminal.
Mesic is very popular and so he should be reducing the sentence of a brave soldier is an important thing to do.Evidently the pristina trip was ahuge party and really enjoyed by all that attended.
"the killings by this convicted war criminal, as i understand them, are really horrible, and i do not agree with lightening up his sentence. but all of these self-righteous protestations by the other side are utterly hypocritical and cannot betaken seriously."
So, Roberto, you agree with all the others here that reducing the sentence was wrong. But, you deny Serbs the right to agree with you on this by posting here.
Dear me, if that isn't racist, I don't know what is!
Here the thing, some of us have been calling for the arrest and prosecution of war criminals for years.
Now when a president of a country reduces the sentence of a convicted war criminal of the most brutal kind - our 'human rights' friends abroad remain silent.
And yet if a court (not an individual) reduces the sentence of say someone like Biljana Plavsis then said 'human rights' 'friends' abroad whine about it.
It leaves one to wonder wheather for some the lives of some humans are more valuable than others.
Let me be as clear as crystal. Mesic had personal responsibility for this reduction. Tadic did not / could not reduce Plavsic's sentence.
This news is about Mesic's wrongdoing - and yet no matter what the subject, some want to change it to Serbian wrongdoing.
Fine, but do that when it is relevant. Until then a condemnation of Mesic show a little humanity to the victims of this particular war criminal.
God, is Roberto still at it? I couldn't manage to read his latest dissertation on injustice but I am sure it is the same tired ranting. At least others make for entertainment but he simply bores me from his perch atop the moral soapbox.
# We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
(SimplyStated, 8 January 2010 21:10)
Here's the thing -- some of us have been stressing the need for prosecution of "alleged" war criminals, for years! the desperate need for such prosecution by a judiciary of integrity... and the absolute need to investigate all serious allegations of war crimes. the need to open up mass graves, the need to open up about the past, the all too often very ugly past of the balkans.
and for that, we have been censored, bullied, made fun of, belittled, dragged thru the mud, assaulted with personal attacks, ad nauseum. for our advocacy.
now, suddenly, when it involves SERB victims, Serb women and children, then it becomes a holy call: how dare mesic reduce the sentence!! (at least he was sentenced and served time) --- how dare mesic attack us...
meanwhile mladic continues to be coddled by serb authorities, meanwhile the truth about srebrenica is denied, meanwhile war criminals walk the streets of blgd and banja luka, meanswhile sesejl and his ilk cont. to be role models... it's just too much.
the killings by this convicted war criminal, as i understand them, are really horrible, and i do not agree with lightening up his sentence. but all of these self-righteous protestations by the other side are utterly hypocritical and cannot betaken seriously.
if YOU hate war crimes and war criminals, demand mladic's arrest. demand the prosecution of "your" war criminals by your judiciary, don't just leave it all up to kandic. help to locate the still unopened mass graves of ethnic albanians, deep inside serbia. and tell yr beloved regime in blgd to stop making war ag. bosnia and kosovo/a by all means except...
These signals by a president of a nation and it's societies leading figure are wrong. Actions like these including recent attempts by a Croatian NGO to re-create a Croatian Orthodox Church previously attempted in WW2 under fascism are alarming and place hurdles to the return of the Serb population in Croatia, cementing a policy of ethnic cleansing Tudjman devised during operation Storm.
The only solution and guarentee seems to be Krajina autonomy as accepted by Milan Babic through the negotiations with US ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith. Perhaps Jeremic should initiate a process of lobbying our Eu freinds such as Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Slovaks etc of vetoing Croatians EU entry until it grants autonomy. Once(if) autonomy is granted entry to the Eu with those administrative borders is as good as independance and gives the Serbs in Croatia to live in safety without constant attempts of discrimmination and fear.
Serbs are not the only ones who have been ethnicly cleansed or had their human rights abused there is a pattern which must stop.
http://www.sicilianculture.com/news/2003-genocide.htm
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
(KOSOVARI, 8 January 2010 17:41)
Beg your pardon? Did you happen to mean the 100,000 apparently massacred? The 100,000 lie that led to 500min serbian civilians being killed by NATO (cluster bombs, depleted uranium, mass ordanance. How about all the Serbs missing, who had their organs removed? How about the 2004 program where dozens of churches were destroyed by albanians. How about all the vandalised serbian graves? How about the mass change in the percentage of Serbs in Kosovo? How about the fact that since 1999 there have been untold numbers of murders of serbs in Kosovo and that NOT ONE person has yet gone to trial. I could go on and list a thousand other things....and then an ALBANIAN can preach 'justice'.
You albanians initiated a war in Kosovo so that you could claim independence, when the going got too tough and you got your asses kicked to the high heavens you called upon your USA pals to illegally bomb Serbia for 78 days with all sorts of illegal things, resulting in the bombing of schools, hospitals, tv stations, power stations, towns, trains, and lots more including the mass contamination of major water supplies.
But hey you guys cant live in peace with other people, be it Macedonia, Greece, Serbia, Montenegro and almost every where else you go.
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
(KOSOVARI, 8 January 2010 17:41)
SimplyStated, obviously most of the Serbian readers don't like to look into a mirror. Suddenly they only see "Serbian bashing", as usual when they are confronted with their own behavior. The warm welcome for Plavcic was also my first reaction.
"We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
(SimplyStated, 8 January 2010 21:10)"
I'm struggling to see what your point is. When did Tadic reduce the sentence of a war criminal? Tadic is a media darling. At last the Serbs get the game. Does that worry you?
At least that croat criminal spent few years in prison, whereas the serb criminals who killed thousands upon thouasnds are still free and Tadic is not doing anything. The best example is Ratko Mladic and many others.
(montenegrin, 8 January 2010 23:02)
===================
There are many Serbs in prison domestically and in Hague.
Is this not enough for you? Would it help if they build a Berlins style wall around Serbia?
God how I wish one Kosovo Albanian journalist would ask him about this question while he is in Pristina. It would give me hope about the good of humanity.
(bganon, 8 January 2010 14:32)
Humans are basically decen but what will turn out in Kosovo to greet and interview him may be something different.
At least that croat criminal spent few years in prison, whereas the serb criminals who killed thousands upon thouasnds are still free and Tadic is not doing anything. The best example is Ratko Mladic and many others.
Mesic is abusing his power in his last days and is going crazy. He knows this is last time in the spot light and is doing what he can to burden the new president. He is deeply saddend that is no more wars to fight. Relations will improve once Josipovic gets elected. I think Croatia will start to "mind its own business" when this happens.
We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
and because the "revolution" which unseated him involved a very ostentatious use of "people power."
http://www.voltairenet.org/article163453.html
(Ranko Kosovo, Krajina, Kalifornia, 8 January 2010 18:52)
--
Interesting article Ranko, especially this part:
As Marshall helpfully adds, "Bags of money had been brought in for years." Indeed they had. As he earlier explains, "independent" media outlets like the Radio Station B92 (who is Marshall’s own publisher) were, in fact, very largely funded by the USA. Organisations controlled by George Soros also played a crucial role, as they were later to do, in 2003–4, in Georgia. The so-called "democrats" were, in reality, nothing but foreign agents – just as the Yugoslav government stolidly maintained at the time.
Serbian President Boris Tadić today reacted to his Croatian counterpart Stjepan Mesić's decision. You trust two Communist I would not be surprised if they still have their international communist party member cards. Dreaming of the good old days for them. Communism will be back just like fashion ,under the slogan freedom from work and from bankers but under are benevolent heel.
The overthrow of Slobodan Miloševic was obviously not the first time the West used covert influence to effect regime change. The overthrow of Sali Berisha in Albania in 1997 and of Vladimir Meciar in Slovakia in 1998 were heavily influenced by the West and, in the case of Berisha, an extremely violent uprising was presented as a spontaneous and welcome example of people power. I personally observed how the international community, and especially the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), fiddled its election observation results in order to ensure political change. However, the overthrow of Slobodan Miloševic in Belgrade on 5th October 2000 is important because he is such a well-known figure, and because the "revolution" which unseated him involved a very ostentatious use of "people power."
As I remember from reading here on B92 Serbia gave an average of 6 years per person to those that committed the massacre in the pizzeria. Tadic's holier than though attitude doesn't fly in the Balkans. Especially since 2 new mass grave sites are said to be across from Mitrovica.
Also Mesic visiting Prishtina is none of Tadic's problems. You can't claim for it to be an internal issue when you feel like and an international issue when you feel like. Its either one or the other. For all those times your Jeremic has claimed to be an international issue then Mesic's visit as a person of international stature is within the international dimensions of the issue.
Your hate for Serbs is blinding your sense of justice. Shame on Mesic and people like you.
(svojgazda, 8 January 2010 16:12)
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
Croatia NEEDS to say and do what it does in regards to Bosnia and Kosovo Province in order to remain within the good graces of the EU and in particular its major economic partners. Mesic may seem to many to be little more than a senile old coot (he is to me). But Mesic really can't come out and call for the creation of a Croatian entity in Bosnia even though he clearly wants one. Nor can he really call for objective arbitration over Kosovo Province when his government recognized it. So he plays the good supplicant to Dayton and calls out anything he sees as wrong (read as "unfair") with Dodik. He'll make half hearted statements about Kosovo's sovereignty even though Croatia really can't, hasn't, and won't do anything in promoting Pristina's authority into areas it doesn't exist. Granted his going to Pristina to get his ego on with Hash & Co. was indeed over the top, and granted this comes right on the heels of him commuting the sentence of a Croatian war criminal - all are inexcusable. But rather than chalking this up to intractable Croatian nationalism, which many of us here frequently do, can't we also argue that Croatia is so unbelievably hamstrung like every other Balkan state that it needs to play an already composed tune? Is Mesic's statements any less obvious than Milo Djukanovic's which are obviously scripted and done for the approval of others? Croatia obviously needs international economic support as much as the next guy and with only Dalmatian resorts to make a kuna on, which will undoubtedly be bought up by German, Italian, and Austrian companies after EU ascension, they're obviously held by the short end. Croatia has has a history of kowtowing to the interests of larger powers for decades, so rather than defiance and hubris, I see Mesic as little more than an errand boy forced to pitch a product in exchange for a warm meal and a pat on the head. And some medal he can pin to his coat that he can think makes him important.
“That is why Serbia gave 20 years sentence to Serb thugs who did the pizza shop massacre in Kosovo and annihilated an entire family including women, children and eldery? (Denis, 8 January 2010 15:57)”
Denis believe it or not, this guy slaughtered an entire family too (the youngest was 12) AND participated in other massacres.
He was sentenced to just EIGHT YEARS and Mesic just gave him a year off for “good behavior”.
Then by comparison you complain that Serbia gave one of its citizen’s TWENTY years for a similar crime? No presidential pardon or anything.
Thank you for pointing out that Serbia is in fact the most serious in the region about tackling war crimes.
I’m PROUD Tadic has apologized for the crimes committed against non-serbs. What has Mesic done? Or any of the other local leaders?
"Tadić also pointed out that Mesić's "regrettable decision" was only one in a series, including today's visit to Priština, "which is in a very efficient manner spoiling relations with Serbia, leaving a serious and unnecessary burden to his successor".
What happened to the Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić!!! at least the Croats arrested the so called criminal.
He visits Prishtina becouse he knows the truth, when he was the President of Yugoslavia, he stated that Kosovo should be resolved as part of the break of Yugoslavia and not remain under Serbia. He made the same statement again a couple of weeks ago.
The truth hurts especially as the Serbs are so diluted in their own fantasies of greater serbia, but the fact is as it stands Kosovo exists and there is nothing you can do but delay the fact to favour your interests. Please don't be so high headed the EU realise this game and the game that the Serbs played during the Milosovic years.
So you think it's OK what Mesic did, fez? The case you are linking was immediately appealed by Serbian prosecutors, besides you are comparing enemy combatants to innocent children. Your hate for Serbs is blinding your sense of justice. Shame on Mesic and people like you.
What's was wrong with my comment ? I really believe that Mr.Mesic enjoys the most attractive appearance a man can dream of. So if I were Boris I would spend more time and efforts with this guy to soften the contradictions. As for Darvin's theory I did not mean to hurt Mr.Mesic. What I really hinted at was that the strongests are surviving. As for the genesis matters I disagree Mr.C.Darwin and stick to the Wholy Writ.
"That punishment must be justice and innocent victims served, and should in no way be reduced or annulled through discretionary decisions which essentially make crime relative and relieve the most horrid criminals of their guilt," the president said in his statement."
That is why Serbia gave 20 years sentence to Serb thugs who did the pizza shop massacre in Kosovo and annihilated an entire family including women, children and eldery?
its time for strong action in legal ways and that krajina should be returned to the people (Serbs) because it was Serbian land before croatia and after and it has proof and all Serbs to return to their homes and businesses and to all be rebuilt and paid for suffering and loss, and to get full autonomy and then independence because krajina was never part of croatia and should start now.
Mesic is in frenzy of some kind. To get a lot of things done before he's gone. I'm serious I wouldnt be surprised if he starts denying Jasenovac genocide any day now or something like that.
I don't think the sentence should have been reduced. Rimac should have to serve out his full punishment for war crimes he committed. This is what is known as justice.
I am fully behind Tadic on this. Mesic is an absolute disgrace and Tadic is right to highlight what he did. I'm glad that Tadic's statement will ensure that what Mesic did will be read around the world.
I wonder what the human rights supporting friends of Mesic think now.
Commuting jail sentences of child killers. Way to go, no really just the way to go (leave) the Presidency of Croatia.
God how I wish one Kosovo Albanian journalist would ask him about this question while he is in Pristina. It would give me hope about the good of humanity.
"When the outgoing Croatian president pardons a criminal who killed Serb children just because they are of a different ethnicity, then that is an act that deserves every condemnation, a deeply anti-civilizational and anti-European decision [coming] from the other side of common sense," said the president.
--
I couldn't agree more with Tadic on this one. This is a disgusting act from Croatia.
We are getting provocation after provocation from them. However, I expect this to be more of a sign of their frustration than anything else.
Serbia is making significant gains on the world stage while Croatia can only respond by poking us in the eye. This will do more damage to Croatia's reputation than they think.
Mesic knows that the balance of world power has shifted in favor of Russia & that Krajina will spend this decade regaining independence, thats why he's doing this Ustashoid nonesense, esp. since CRO's new govt is fairly liberal. Goodbye Mesic! Keep an eye on your wrist watch when you visit the thieves in Pristina.
"When the outgoing Croatian president pardons a criminal who killed Serb children just because they are of a different ethnicity, then that is an act that deserves every condemnation, a deeply anti-civilizational and anti-European decision [coming] from the other side of common sense," said the president.
--
I couldn't agree more with Tadic on this one. This is a disgusting act from Croatia.
We are getting provocation after provocation from them. However, I expect this to be more of a sign of their frustration than anything else.
Serbia is making significant gains on the world stage while Croatia can only respond by poking us in the eye. This will do more damage to Croatia's reputation than they think.
I am fully behind Tadic on this. Mesic is an absolute disgrace and Tadic is right to highlight what he did. I'm glad that Tadic's statement will ensure that what Mesic did will be read around the world.
I wonder what the human rights supporting friends of Mesic think now.
Commuting jail sentences of child killers. Way to go, no really just the way to go (leave) the Presidency of Croatia.
God how I wish one Kosovo Albanian journalist would ask him about this question while he is in Pristina. It would give me hope about the good of humanity.
Mesic knows that the balance of world power has shifted in favor of Russia & that Krajina will spend this decade regaining independence, thats why he's doing this Ustashoid nonesense, esp. since CRO's new govt is fairly liberal. Goodbye Mesic! Keep an eye on your wrist watch when you visit the thieves in Pristina.
Croatia NEEDS to say and do what it does in regards to Bosnia and Kosovo Province in order to remain within the good graces of the EU and in particular its major economic partners. Mesic may seem to many to be little more than a senile old coot (he is to me). But Mesic really can't come out and call for the creation of a Croatian entity in Bosnia even though he clearly wants one. Nor can he really call for objective arbitration over Kosovo Province when his government recognized it. So he plays the good supplicant to Dayton and calls out anything he sees as wrong (read as "unfair") with Dodik. He'll make half hearted statements about Kosovo's sovereignty even though Croatia really can't, hasn't, and won't do anything in promoting Pristina's authority into areas it doesn't exist. Granted his going to Pristina to get his ego on with Hash & Co. was indeed over the top, and granted this comes right on the heels of him commuting the sentence of a Croatian war criminal - all are inexcusable. But rather than chalking this up to intractable Croatian nationalism, which many of us here frequently do, can't we also argue that Croatia is so unbelievably hamstrung like every other Balkan state that it needs to play an already composed tune? Is Mesic's statements any less obvious than Milo Djukanovic's which are obviously scripted and done for the approval of others? Croatia obviously needs international economic support as much as the next guy and with only Dalmatian resorts to make a kuna on, which will undoubtedly be bought up by German, Italian, and Austrian companies after EU ascension, they're obviously held by the short end. Croatia has has a history of kowtowing to the interests of larger powers for decades, so rather than defiance and hubris, I see Mesic as little more than an errand boy forced to pitch a product in exchange for a warm meal and a pat on the head. And some medal he can pin to his coat that he can think makes him important.
“That is why Serbia gave 20 years sentence to Serb thugs who did the pizza shop massacre in Kosovo and annihilated an entire family including women, children and eldery? (Denis, 8 January 2010 15:57)”
Denis believe it or not, this guy slaughtered an entire family too (the youngest was 12) AND participated in other massacres.
He was sentenced to just EIGHT YEARS and Mesic just gave him a year off for “good behavior”.
Then by comparison you complain that Serbia gave one of its citizen’s TWENTY years for a similar crime? No presidential pardon or anything.
Thank you for pointing out that Serbia is in fact the most serious in the region about tackling war crimes.
I’m PROUD Tadic has apologized for the crimes committed against non-serbs. What has Mesic done? Or any of the other local leaders?
Mesic is in frenzy of some kind. To get a lot of things done before he's gone. I'm serious I wouldnt be surprised if he starts denying Jasenovac genocide any day now or something like that.
I don't think the sentence should have been reduced. Rimac should have to serve out his full punishment for war crimes he committed. This is what is known as justice.
its time for strong action in legal ways and that krajina should be returned to the people (Serbs) because it was Serbian land before croatia and after and it has proof and all Serbs to return to their homes and businesses and to all be rebuilt and paid for suffering and loss, and to get full autonomy and then independence because krajina was never part of croatia and should start now.
So you think it's OK what Mesic did, fez? The case you are linking was immediately appealed by Serbian prosecutors, besides you are comparing enemy combatants to innocent children. Your hate for Serbs is blinding your sense of justice. Shame on Mesic and people like you.
Mesic is abusing his power in his last days and is going crazy. He knows this is last time in the spot light and is doing what he can to burden the new president. He is deeply saddend that is no more wars to fight. Relations will improve once Josipovic gets elected. I think Croatia will start to "mind its own business" when this happens.
Your hate for Serbs is blinding your sense of justice. Shame on Mesic and people like you.
(svojgazda, 8 January 2010 16:12)
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
"Tadić also pointed out that Mesić's "regrettable decision" was only one in a series, including today's visit to Priština, "which is in a very efficient manner spoiling relations with Serbia, leaving a serious and unnecessary burden to his successor".
What happened to the Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić!!! at least the Croats arrested the so called criminal.
He visits Prishtina becouse he knows the truth, when he was the President of Yugoslavia, he stated that Kosovo should be resolved as part of the break of Yugoslavia and not remain under Serbia. He made the same statement again a couple of weeks ago.
The truth hurts especially as the Serbs are so diluted in their own fantasies of greater serbia, but the fact is as it stands Kosovo exists and there is nothing you can do but delay the fact to favour your interests. Please don't be so high headed the EU realise this game and the game that the Serbs played during the Milosovic years.
The overthrow of Slobodan Miloševic was obviously not the first time the West used covert influence to effect regime change. The overthrow of Sali Berisha in Albania in 1997 and of Vladimir Meciar in Slovakia in 1998 were heavily influenced by the West and, in the case of Berisha, an extremely violent uprising was presented as a spontaneous and welcome example of people power. I personally observed how the international community, and especially the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), fiddled its election observation results in order to ensure political change. However, the overthrow of Slobodan Miloševic in Belgrade on 5th October 2000 is important because he is such a well-known figure, and because the "revolution" which unseated him involved a very ostentatious use of "people power."
At least that croat criminal spent few years in prison, whereas the serb criminals who killed thousands upon thouasnds are still free and Tadic is not doing anything. The best example is Ratko Mladic and many others.
(montenegrin, 8 January 2010 23:02)
===================
There are many Serbs in prison domestically and in Hague.
Is this not enough for you? Would it help if they build a Berlins style wall around Serbia?
and because the "revolution" which unseated him involved a very ostentatious use of "people power."
http://www.voltairenet.org/article163453.html
(Ranko Kosovo, Krajina, Kalifornia, 8 January 2010 18:52)
--
Interesting article Ranko, especially this part:
As Marshall helpfully adds, "Bags of money had been brought in for years." Indeed they had. As he earlier explains, "independent" media outlets like the Radio Station B92 (who is Marshall’s own publisher) were, in fact, very largely funded by the USA. Organisations controlled by George Soros also played a crucial role, as they were later to do, in 2003–4, in Georgia. The so-called "democrats" were, in reality, nothing but foreign agents – just as the Yugoslav government stolidly maintained at the time.
At least that croat criminal spent few years in prison, whereas the serb criminals who killed thousands upon thouasnds are still free and Tadic is not doing anything. The best example is Ratko Mladic and many others.
We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
# We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
(SimplyStated, 8 January 2010 21:10)
Here's the thing -- some of us have been stressing the need for prosecution of "alleged" war criminals, for years! the desperate need for such prosecution by a judiciary of integrity... and the absolute need to investigate all serious allegations of war crimes. the need to open up mass graves, the need to open up about the past, the all too often very ugly past of the balkans.
and for that, we have been censored, bullied, made fun of, belittled, dragged thru the mud, assaulted with personal attacks, ad nauseum. for our advocacy.
now, suddenly, when it involves SERB victims, Serb women and children, then it becomes a holy call: how dare mesic reduce the sentence!! (at least he was sentenced and served time) --- how dare mesic attack us...
meanwhile mladic continues to be coddled by serb authorities, meanwhile the truth about srebrenica is denied, meanwhile war criminals walk the streets of blgd and banja luka, meanswhile sesejl and his ilk cont. to be role models... it's just too much.
the killings by this convicted war criminal, as i understand them, are really horrible, and i do not agree with lightening up his sentence. but all of these self-righteous protestations by the other side are utterly hypocritical and cannot betaken seriously.
if YOU hate war crimes and war criminals, demand mladic's arrest. demand the prosecution of "your" war criminals by your judiciary, don't just leave it all up to kandic. help to locate the still unopened mass graves of ethnic albanians, deep inside serbia. and tell yr beloved regime in blgd to stop making war ag. bosnia and kosovo/a by all means except...
As I remember from reading here on B92 Serbia gave an average of 6 years per person to those that committed the massacre in the pizzeria. Tadic's holier than though attitude doesn't fly in the Balkans. Especially since 2 new mass grave sites are said to be across from Mitrovica.
Also Mesic visiting Prishtina is none of Tadic's problems. You can't claim for it to be an internal issue when you feel like and an international issue when you feel like. Its either one or the other. For all those times your Jeremic has claimed to be an international issue then Mesic's visit as a person of international stature is within the international dimensions of the issue.
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
(KOSOVARI, 8 January 2010 17:41)
Beg your pardon? Did you happen to mean the 100,000 apparently massacred? The 100,000 lie that led to 500min serbian civilians being killed by NATO (cluster bombs, depleted uranium, mass ordanance. How about all the Serbs missing, who had their organs removed? How about the 2004 program where dozens of churches were destroyed by albanians. How about all the vandalised serbian graves? How about the mass change in the percentage of Serbs in Kosovo? How about the fact that since 1999 there have been untold numbers of murders of serbs in Kosovo and that NOT ONE person has yet gone to trial. I could go on and list a thousand other things....and then an ALBANIAN can preach 'justice'.
You albanians initiated a war in Kosovo so that you could claim independence, when the going got too tough and you got your asses kicked to the high heavens you called upon your USA pals to illegally bomb Serbia for 78 days with all sorts of illegal things, resulting in the bombing of schools, hospitals, tv stations, power stations, towns, trains, and lots more including the mass contamination of major water supplies.
But hey you guys cant live in peace with other people, be it Macedonia, Greece, Serbia, Montenegro and almost every where else you go.
God how I wish one Kosovo Albanian journalist would ask him about this question while he is in Pristina. It would give me hope about the good of humanity.
(bganon, 8 January 2010 14:32)
Humans are basically decen but what will turn out in Kosovo to greet and interview him may be something different.
"the killings by this convicted war criminal, as i understand them, are really horrible, and i do not agree with lightening up his sentence. but all of these self-righteous protestations by the other side are utterly hypocritical and cannot betaken seriously."
So, Roberto, you agree with all the others here that reducing the sentence was wrong. But, you deny Serbs the right to agree with you on this by posting here.
Dear me, if that isn't racist, I don't know what is!
God, is Roberto still at it? I couldn't manage to read his latest dissertation on injustice but I am sure it is the same tired ranting. At least others make for entertainment but he simply bores me from his perch atop the moral soapbox.
"That punishment must be justice and innocent victims served, and should in no way be reduced or annulled through discretionary decisions which essentially make crime relative and relieve the most horrid criminals of their guilt," the president said in his statement."
That is why Serbia gave 20 years sentence to Serb thugs who did the pizza shop massacre in Kosovo and annihilated an entire family including women, children and eldery?
Here the thing, some of us have been calling for the arrest and prosecution of war criminals for years.
Now when a president of a country reduces the sentence of a convicted war criminal of the most brutal kind - our 'human rights' friends abroad remain silent.
And yet if a court (not an individual) reduces the sentence of say someone like Biljana Plavsis then said 'human rights' 'friends' abroad whine about it.
It leaves one to wonder wheather for some the lives of some humans are more valuable than others.
Let me be as clear as crystal. Mesic had personal responsibility for this reduction. Tadic did not / could not reduce Plavsic's sentence.
This news is about Mesic's wrongdoing - and yet no matter what the subject, some want to change it to Serbian wrongdoing.
Fine, but do that when it is relevant. Until then a condemnation of Mesic show a little humanity to the victims of this particular war criminal.
SimplyStated, obviously most of the Serbian readers don't like to look into a mirror. Suddenly they only see "Serbian bashing", as usual when they are confronted with their own behavior. The warm welcome for Plavcic was also my first reaction.
What's was wrong with my comment ? I really believe that Mr.Mesic enjoys the most attractive appearance a man can dream of. So if I were Boris I would spend more time and efforts with this guy to soften the contradictions. As for Darvin's theory I did not mean to hurt Mr.Mesic. What I really hinted at was that the strongests are surviving. As for the genesis matters I disagree Mr.C.Darwin and stick to the Wholy Writ.
"We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
(SimplyStated, 8 January 2010 21:10)"
I'm struggling to see what your point is. When did Tadic reduce the sentence of a war criminal? Tadic is a media darling. At last the Serbs get the game. Does that worry you?
These signals by a president of a nation and it's societies leading figure are wrong. Actions like these including recent attempts by a Croatian NGO to re-create a Croatian Orthodox Church previously attempted in WW2 under fascism are alarming and place hurdles to the return of the Serb population in Croatia, cementing a policy of ethnic cleansing Tudjman devised during operation Storm.
The only solution and guarentee seems to be Krajina autonomy as accepted by Milan Babic through the negotiations with US ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith. Perhaps Jeremic should initiate a process of lobbying our Eu freinds such as Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Slovaks etc of vetoing Croatians EU entry until it grants autonomy. Once(if) autonomy is granted entry to the Eu with those administrative borders is as good as independance and gives the Serbs in Croatia to live in safety without constant attempts of discrimmination and fear.
Serbs are not the only ones who have been ethnicly cleansed or had their human rights abused there is a pattern which must stop.
http://www.sicilianculture.com/news/2003-genocide.htm
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
(KOSOVARI, 8 January 2010 17:41)
Serbian President Boris Tadić today reacted to his Croatian counterpart Stjepan Mesić's decision. You trust two Communist I would not be surprised if they still have their international communist party member cards. Dreaming of the good old days for them. Communism will be back just like fashion ,under the slogan freedom from work and from bankers but under are benevolent heel.
Mesic is very popular and so he should be reducing the sentence of a brave soldier is an important thing to do.Evidently the pristina trip was ahuge party and really enjoyed by all that attended.
Your hate for Serbs is blinding your sense of justice. Shame on Mesic and people like you.
(svojgazda, 8 January 2010 16:12)
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
"Tadić also pointed out that Mesić's "regrettable decision" was only one in a series, including today's visit to Priština, "which is in a very efficient manner spoiling relations with Serbia, leaving a serious and unnecessary burden to his successor".
What happened to the Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić!!! at least the Croats arrested the so called criminal.
He visits Prishtina becouse he knows the truth, when he was the President of Yugoslavia, he stated that Kosovo should be resolved as part of the break of Yugoslavia and not remain under Serbia. He made the same statement again a couple of weeks ago.
The truth hurts especially as the Serbs are so diluted in their own fantasies of greater serbia, but the fact is as it stands Kosovo exists and there is nothing you can do but delay the fact to favour your interests. Please don't be so high headed the EU realise this game and the game that the Serbs played during the Milosovic years.
Mesic knows that the balance of world power has shifted in favor of Russia & that Krajina will spend this decade regaining independence, thats why he's doing this Ustashoid nonesense, esp. since CRO's new govt is fairly liberal. Goodbye Mesic! Keep an eye on your wrist watch when you visit the thieves in Pristina.
As I remember from reading here on B92 Serbia gave an average of 6 years per person to those that committed the massacre in the pizzeria. Tadic's holier than though attitude doesn't fly in the Balkans. Especially since 2 new mass grave sites are said to be across from Mitrovica.
Also Mesic visiting Prishtina is none of Tadic's problems. You can't claim for it to be an internal issue when you feel like and an international issue when you feel like. Its either one or the other. For all those times your Jeremic has claimed to be an international issue then Mesic's visit as a person of international stature is within the international dimensions of the issue.
We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
"That punishment must be justice and innocent victims served, and should in no way be reduced or annulled through discretionary decisions which essentially make crime relative and relieve the most horrid criminals of their guilt," the president said in his statement."
That is why Serbia gave 20 years sentence to Serb thugs who did the pizza shop massacre in Kosovo and annihilated an entire family including women, children and eldery?
At least that croat criminal spent few years in prison, whereas the serb criminals who killed thousands upon thouasnds are still free and Tadic is not doing anything. The best example is Ratko Mladic and many others.
Serbian President Boris Tadić today reacted to his Croatian counterpart Stjepan Mesić's decision. You trust two Communist I would not be surprised if they still have their international communist party member cards. Dreaming of the good old days for them. Communism will be back just like fashion ,under the slogan freedom from work and from bankers but under are benevolent heel.
# We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
(SimplyStated, 8 January 2010 21:10)
Here's the thing -- some of us have been stressing the need for prosecution of "alleged" war criminals, for years! the desperate need for such prosecution by a judiciary of integrity... and the absolute need to investigate all serious allegations of war crimes. the need to open up mass graves, the need to open up about the past, the all too often very ugly past of the balkans.
and for that, we have been censored, bullied, made fun of, belittled, dragged thru the mud, assaulted with personal attacks, ad nauseum. for our advocacy.
now, suddenly, when it involves SERB victims, Serb women and children, then it becomes a holy call: how dare mesic reduce the sentence!! (at least he was sentenced and served time) --- how dare mesic attack us...
meanwhile mladic continues to be coddled by serb authorities, meanwhile the truth about srebrenica is denied, meanwhile war criminals walk the streets of blgd and banja luka, meanswhile sesejl and his ilk cont. to be role models... it's just too much.
the killings by this convicted war criminal, as i understand them, are really horrible, and i do not agree with lightening up his sentence. but all of these self-righteous protestations by the other side are utterly hypocritical and cannot betaken seriously.
if YOU hate war crimes and war criminals, demand mladic's arrest. demand the prosecution of "your" war criminals by your judiciary, don't just leave it all up to kandic. help to locate the still unopened mass graves of ethnic albanians, deep inside serbia. and tell yr beloved regime in blgd to stop making war ag. bosnia and kosovo/a by all means except...
"When the outgoing Croatian president pardons a criminal who killed Serb children just because they are of a different ethnicity, then that is an act that deserves every condemnation, a deeply anti-civilizational and anti-European decision [coming] from the other side of common sense," said the president.
--
I couldn't agree more with Tadic on this one. This is a disgusting act from Croatia.
We are getting provocation after provocation from them. However, I expect this to be more of a sign of their frustration than anything else.
Serbia is making significant gains on the world stage while Croatia can only respond by poking us in the eye. This will do more damage to Croatia's reputation than they think.
its time for strong action in legal ways and that krajina should be returned to the people (Serbs) because it was Serbian land before croatia and after and it has proof and all Serbs to return to their homes and businesses and to all be rebuilt and paid for suffering and loss, and to get full autonomy and then independence because krajina was never part of croatia and should start now.
What's was wrong with my comment ? I really believe that Mr.Mesic enjoys the most attractive appearance a man can dream of. So if I were Boris I would spend more time and efforts with this guy to soften the contradictions. As for Darvin's theory I did not mean to hurt Mr.Mesic. What I really hinted at was that the strongests are surviving. As for the genesis matters I disagree Mr.C.Darwin and stick to the Wholy Writ.
Mesic is in frenzy of some kind. To get a lot of things done before he's gone. I'm serious I wouldnt be surprised if he starts denying Jasenovac genocide any day now or something like that.
Croatia NEEDS to say and do what it does in regards to Bosnia and Kosovo Province in order to remain within the good graces of the EU and in particular its major economic partners. Mesic may seem to many to be little more than a senile old coot (he is to me). But Mesic really can't come out and call for the creation of a Croatian entity in Bosnia even though he clearly wants one. Nor can he really call for objective arbitration over Kosovo Province when his government recognized it. So he plays the good supplicant to Dayton and calls out anything he sees as wrong (read as "unfair") with Dodik. He'll make half hearted statements about Kosovo's sovereignty even though Croatia really can't, hasn't, and won't do anything in promoting Pristina's authority into areas it doesn't exist. Granted his going to Pristina to get his ego on with Hash & Co. was indeed over the top, and granted this comes right on the heels of him commuting the sentence of a Croatian war criminal - all are inexcusable. But rather than chalking this up to intractable Croatian nationalism, which many of us here frequently do, can't we also argue that Croatia is so unbelievably hamstrung like every other Balkan state that it needs to play an already composed tune? Is Mesic's statements any less obvious than Milo Djukanovic's which are obviously scripted and done for the approval of others? Croatia obviously needs international economic support as much as the next guy and with only Dalmatian resorts to make a kuna on, which will undoubtedly be bought up by German, Italian, and Austrian companies after EU ascension, they're obviously held by the short end. Croatia has has a history of kowtowing to the interests of larger powers for decades, so rather than defiance and hubris, I see Mesic as little more than an errand boy forced to pitch a product in exchange for a warm meal and a pat on the head. And some medal he can pin to his coat that he can think makes him important.
The overthrow of Slobodan Miloševic was obviously not the first time the West used covert influence to effect regime change. The overthrow of Sali Berisha in Albania in 1997 and of Vladimir Meciar in Slovakia in 1998 were heavily influenced by the West and, in the case of Berisha, an extremely violent uprising was presented as a spontaneous and welcome example of people power. I personally observed how the international community, and especially the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE), fiddled its election observation results in order to ensure political change. However, the overthrow of Slobodan Miloševic in Belgrade on 5th October 2000 is important because he is such a well-known figure, and because the "revolution" which unseated him involved a very ostentatious use of "people power."
Mesic is very popular and so he should be reducing the sentence of a brave soldier is an important thing to do.Evidently the pristina trip was ahuge party and really enjoyed by all that attended.
I don't think the sentence should have been reduced. Rimac should have to serve out his full punishment for war crimes he committed. This is what is known as justice.
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
(KOSOVARI, 8 January 2010 17:41)
Beg your pardon? Did you happen to mean the 100,000 apparently massacred? The 100,000 lie that led to 500min serbian civilians being killed by NATO (cluster bombs, depleted uranium, mass ordanance. How about all the Serbs missing, who had their organs removed? How about the 2004 program where dozens of churches were destroyed by albanians. How about all the vandalised serbian graves? How about the mass change in the percentage of Serbs in Kosovo? How about the fact that since 1999 there have been untold numbers of murders of serbs in Kosovo and that NOT ONE person has yet gone to trial. I could go on and list a thousand other things....and then an ALBANIAN can preach 'justice'.
You albanians initiated a war in Kosovo so that you could claim independence, when the going got too tough and you got your asses kicked to the high heavens you called upon your USA pals to illegally bomb Serbia for 78 days with all sorts of illegal things, resulting in the bombing of schools, hospitals, tv stations, power stations, towns, trains, and lots more including the mass contamination of major water supplies.
But hey you guys cant live in peace with other people, be it Macedonia, Greece, Serbia, Montenegro and almost every where else you go.
I am fully behind Tadic on this. Mesic is an absolute disgrace and Tadic is right to highlight what he did. I'm glad that Tadic's statement will ensure that what Mesic did will be read around the world.
I wonder what the human rights supporting friends of Mesic think now.
Commuting jail sentences of child killers. Way to go, no really just the way to go (leave) the Presidency of Croatia.
God how I wish one Kosovo Albanian journalist would ask him about this question while he is in Pristina. It would give me hope about the good of humanity.
So you think it's OK what Mesic did, fez? The case you are linking was immediately appealed by Serbian prosecutors, besides you are comparing enemy combatants to innocent children. Your hate for Serbs is blinding your sense of justice. Shame on Mesic and people like you.
and because the "revolution" which unseated him involved a very ostentatious use of "people power."
http://www.voltairenet.org/article163453.html
(Ranko Kosovo, Krajina, Kalifornia, 8 January 2010 18:52)
--
Interesting article Ranko, especially this part:
As Marshall helpfully adds, "Bags of money had been brought in for years." Indeed they had. As he earlier explains, "independent" media outlets like the Radio Station B92 (who is Marshall’s own publisher) were, in fact, very largely funded by the USA. Organisations controlled by George Soros also played a crucial role, as they were later to do, in 2003–4, in Georgia. The so-called "democrats" were, in reality, nothing but foreign agents – just as the Yugoslav government stolidly maintained at the time.
God, is Roberto still at it? I couldn't manage to read his latest dissertation on injustice but I am sure it is the same tired ranting. At least others make for entertainment but he simply bores me from his perch atop the moral soapbox.
Here the thing, some of us have been calling for the arrest and prosecution of war criminals for years.
Now when a president of a country reduces the sentence of a convicted war criminal of the most brutal kind - our 'human rights' friends abroad remain silent.
And yet if a court (not an individual) reduces the sentence of say someone like Biljana Plavsis then said 'human rights' 'friends' abroad whine about it.
It leaves one to wonder wheather for some the lives of some humans are more valuable than others.
Let me be as clear as crystal. Mesic had personal responsibility for this reduction. Tadic did not / could not reduce Plavsic's sentence.
This news is about Mesic's wrongdoing - and yet no matter what the subject, some want to change it to Serbian wrongdoing.
Fine, but do that when it is relevant. Until then a condemnation of Mesic show a little humanity to the victims of this particular war criminal.
At least that croat criminal spent few years in prison, whereas the serb criminals who killed thousands upon thouasnds are still free and Tadic is not doing anything. The best example is Ratko Mladic and many others.
(montenegrin, 8 January 2010 23:02)
===================
There are many Serbs in prison domestically and in Hague.
Is this not enough for you? Would it help if they build a Berlins style wall around Serbia?
SimplyStated, obviously most of the Serbian readers don't like to look into a mirror. Suddenly they only see "Serbian bashing", as usual when they are confronted with their own behavior. The warm welcome for Plavcic was also my first reaction.
“That is why Serbia gave 20 years sentence to Serb thugs who did the pizza shop massacre in Kosovo and annihilated an entire family including women, children and eldery? (Denis, 8 January 2010 15:57)”
Denis believe it or not, this guy slaughtered an entire family too (the youngest was 12) AND participated in other massacres.
He was sentenced to just EIGHT YEARS and Mesic just gave him a year off for “good behavior”.
Then by comparison you complain that Serbia gave one of its citizen’s TWENTY years for a similar crime? No presidential pardon or anything.
Thank you for pointing out that Serbia is in fact the most serious in the region about tackling war crimes.
I’m PROUD Tadic has apologized for the crimes committed against non-serbs. What has Mesic done? Or any of the other local leaders?
God how I wish one Kosovo Albanian journalist would ask him about this question while he is in Pristina. It would give me hope about the good of humanity.
(bganon, 8 January 2010 14:32)
Humans are basically decen but what will turn out in Kosovo to greet and interview him may be something different.
Mesic is abusing his power in his last days and is going crazy. He knows this is last time in the spot light and is doing what he can to burden the new president. He is deeply saddend that is no more wars to fight. Relations will improve once Josipovic gets elected. I think Croatia will start to "mind its own business" when this happens.
a SERB lecturing us on "justice" man be quiet with that nonsense. After all those people serbs massacred, rap, killed, and burned....in another lifetime.
(KOSOVARI, 8 January 2010 17:41)
These signals by a president of a nation and it's societies leading figure are wrong. Actions like these including recent attempts by a Croatian NGO to re-create a Croatian Orthodox Church previously attempted in WW2 under fascism are alarming and place hurdles to the return of the Serb population in Croatia, cementing a policy of ethnic cleansing Tudjman devised during operation Storm.
The only solution and guarentee seems to be Krajina autonomy as accepted by Milan Babic through the negotiations with US ambassador to Croatia Peter Galbraith. Perhaps Jeremic should initiate a process of lobbying our Eu freinds such as Greece, Cyprus, Romania, Slovaks etc of vetoing Croatians EU entry until it grants autonomy. Once(if) autonomy is granted entry to the Eu with those administrative borders is as good as independance and gives the Serbs in Croatia to live in safety without constant attempts of discrimmination and fear.
Serbs are not the only ones who have been ethnicly cleansed or had their human rights abused there is a pattern which must stop.
http://www.sicilianculture.com/news/2003-genocide.htm
"We are all growing tired of Tadic's holier-than-thou attitude. Croatia arrested Ante Gotovina and send him off to face justice while Ratko Mladic, the individual most repsonsible fore the Srebrenica Genocide, gets to go to birthday parties and BBQs in Belgrade. Serbia has not arrested Mladic and it has not yet procliamed July 11 as Srebrneica Genocide Remembereance Day. Also the Serb war criminal Plavsic received a heroes welcome in Belgrade even though she is a convicted war criminal whose sentence was cut by the Swedes. I did not hear Tadic complaining about her shortened prison sentence.
(SimplyStated, 8 January 2010 21:10)"
I'm struggling to see what your point is. When did Tadic reduce the sentence of a war criminal? Tadic is a media darling. At last the Serbs get the game. Does that worry you?
"the killings by this convicted war criminal, as i understand them, are really horrible, and i do not agree with lightening up his sentence. but all of these self-righteous protestations by the other side are utterly hypocritical and cannot betaken seriously."
So, Roberto, you agree with all the others here that reducing the sentence was wrong. But, you deny Serbs the right to agree with you on this by posting here.
Dear me, if that isn't racist, I don't know what is!
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