19

Sunday, 03.01.2010.

11:15

Jeremić: Serbia doesn’t want to go to court

Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić said that Serbia does not want sue Croatia, rather build good neighborly relations and cooperation on the road to EU integration.

Izvor: Beta

Jeremiæ: Serbia doesn’t want to go to court IMAGE SOURCE
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19 Komentari

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Jovan R.

pre 14 godina

Deliberately targeting civilians and driving out a population are acts that qualify as war crimes. But while war crimes and 'ethnic cleansing' are terrible crimes, they are not the same as genocide -- that is what the ICJ ruled in the Bosnian genocide case,

Genocide is the only thing the ICJ can rule on. The ICJ cannot and will not decide which side was the aggressor in 1991, it won't rule on whether (or when) Germany or any other states should (or should not) have recognized Croatia and Slovenia; it will not rule on whether the political rights of the Serbs in Croatia were violated; and it will not rule on which side was responsible for war crimes. Those are all questions outside of the ICJ's jurisdiction.

What the ICJ can decide comes down to a two-part question: (a.) whether genocide was committed in Croatia in 1991-1995, and (b.) if so, whether either Serbia or Croatia can be held responsible for it.

My guess is that the court will rule "no" on part (a.). In other words, that whatever crimes were committed by either side, those acts did not add up to genocide. A "no" on the first part of the question makes a decision on part (b.) unnecessary.

My prediction is that both Croatia and Serbia will lose their respective cases.

Dan

pre 14 godina

I can see that Vuk is geting mighty worried allready.
(Kosova-USA, 3 January 2010 12:50)
Vuk is only worried about the implications and who these cases might ineverdently drag into. The Germans for their early recognition(badinter commision report) and other nations which could harm Serbia's EU integration process.
The Serbian suit is much stronger than Croatia's for the simple fact "intent" can be proven from many examples such as the Croat govt policy of destroying the Serb rights to being a constituent people in Croatia, and the statements of Boljakovic, (Serbs and Yugoslavia were Under Attack, Not Croatia In the exclusive interview, Franjo Tudjman’s Internal Affairs Minister Josip Boljkovac; “Tudjman wanted the war at any cost, following the concept according to which Serbs must disappear from Croatia,” Boljkovac said.)
The minutes of the meeting of the Croat leadership prior to operation Storm and failure to hand over missing artillery log books implicates civilian were targets and the aim of driving out the Serb population was planned and executed. If the Serbian legal team is clever and does not drag the other nations into this Croatia could be left with the behinds hanging out the window. I'm sorry to say but the good old days of lobbying and buying PR opinion don't work in court and this is why it is so hard for some commentators to grasp Serbia's right to a counter suit.
Peace is easy it requires two honest leaders to implement the Z4 plan.
Perhaps I leave some of the commentators here with a comment from Drazen Lalic after watching the doco "Storm over Krajina" maybee then we might be enlightened.
"I was astounded by the human race as a whole. I felt guilty for it all, not as a Croat, but as a human being. I believe it is high time we ceased being Croats, Serbs, leftists and rightists and start being simply humans. Let us stop doing to others what we do not want done to ourselves and let us stop defending such behavior", was the comment of dr. Drazen Lalic, a sociologist.
Think about it folks.

Michael R.

pre 14 godina

Like Jovan indicated in an earlier post below, I sense weakness on the part of Serbia. This is revealed by the back peddling by Jeremic concerning whether Serbia wishes to go forward with the genocide case against Croatia. However, Vuk, don't count on Croatia backing down as far as their genocide charges against Serbia is concerned.

Sloven

pre 14 godina

A successful law suit will result in justice being served.
Avoiding a court room showdown will result in better finance.
An unsuccessful court room campaign is a dreadful thought.

Amer

pre 14 godina

Thank you, Jovan R - I was wondering why they were going to the ICJ (rather than the ICTY).

Would you happen to know if Serbia could simply refuse to respond to Croatia's charges, under the rule that no country can be tried without its consent?

Golden Rule

pre 14 godina

"Very poetic, but nonsense. How did Serbs came face-to-face with their attrocities committed only a 10-20 years ago? Please explain this" Dennis?

Serbia's President Tadic acknowledged that wrongs were committed by both sides, he publicly recognized what he saw as Serbia's mistakes and he asked his nation to move forward.

Also by hunting down, handing over, arresting, trying, convicting, handing down long sentences and imprisoning every war criminal they laid their hands on. Even those Serbs that merely rubbed shoulders and smelled like war criminals were visiting emergency rooms from panic attacks and other fear related illnesses, while the Croats, their politicians and community leaders were going to Thompson's concerts. Does this explain it plain and clear?

Serbamer

pre 14 godina

Vuk, regardless of what Croatia does, Serbian victims deserve justice.
I see you don't get that. -----Peggy

Peggy,

Many in the West don't get that either.
The Americans of all westerners should be glad to see justice served for the families of those which risked their lives in order to save American pilots which were shot down over Croatia.

Denis

pre 14 godina

Suing Croatia is a win-win for all humanity.
It brings us all face to face with "hell", and exposes all of us to our boundless potential for "evil" as humans. It also reminds us--again--of how much more we need to work to bring awareness of our past mistakes so we can all try to understand, heal, move on and cooperate in a unified spirit of love and forgiveness. Let us all walk together through this miasma side by side, with no one ahead and no one behind.
(Golden Rule, 3 January 2010 19:36)

Very poetic, but nonsense. How did serbs came face-to-face with their attrocities committed only a 10-20 years ago? Please explain this, cause for what I see many here believe Serbs and Serbia had done nothing wrong. How did serbs reconciled with their crimes?

You think Croats will ask forgiveness, and repent? This is Balkans, none is sorry for what they have done in the past. Croats will only fight back by digging further in history to show their sufferings from Serb.

It is the worse political move Serbia can do, especially when it claims itself to be a "regional leadr". Indeed it is clear that it's a half-hearted move. Croatia will slam the doors to EU by trying to block everything they can for Serbia. The tension will only increase and hurt everyone in the Western Balkans.

K-Alb might do the same thing to Serbia as well which again will be very unwise and extreme, but this is Balkan style politics, and Serbia is the leader on this.

You want to build a future in the Balkans by pointing the finger, blaming for genocide and referencing to the past..... God help you! This is how Yugoslavia was destroyed and how hudred of thousands died. History has tought you nothing.

Jovan R.

pre 14 godina

There's good reason for Jeremic's reluctance to take Serbia's case to court.

Unlike some of the commenters, the foreign minister may have some idea of what such a suit can and cannot do. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is not a war crimes court. And it is not the ICJ's task to establish the truth about historical events.

The ICJ is a court established by the United Nations to rule on specific kinds of disputes between countries. The cases this court handles concern matters such as border disputes or alleged violations of specific treaty obligations.

Among those international treaties is the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Tito's Yugoslavia was one of the original state parties to the Genocide Convention (it signed the Convention in 1948, and ratified it in 1950).

The Republic of Croatia did not become a state party to the Genocide Convention until October 1992, after it became independent and joined the United Nations. As such Croatia may be called to account for any violations of the convention that occurred after October 1992.

Under these circumstances, it's important to remember that atrocities that were committed in World War II (such as Jasenovac) are not subject to the ICJ's jurisdiction -- those horrors occurred before the Genocide Convention was enacted, indeed before the ICJ itself came into being. The court has no "retroactive" jurisdiction and it cannot rule on such matters.

The events of the 1990s in Croatia do fall under the ICJ's jurisdiction, but only if it can be established that the Genocide Convention was violated. Remember that this is a court that does not deal with cases of crimes against humanity or other war crimes. The ICJ is only empowered to rule on treaty violations.

There were undeniably war crimes committed during the 1991-1995 war in Croatia, including crimes connected with the 1995 Operation "Storm" and its aftermath. But genocide is a different matter entirely, and one that is much harder to prove.

As has been noted by several legal experts, including Prof. Tibor Varadi, who represented Serbia before the ICJ in the Bosnian genocide case, proving that the Croatian government violated the Genocide Convention in the period 1992-1995 will be very difficult, from a legal point of view.

CG

pre 14 godina

This statement is really dumb!
If you make such and offer and show a little bit of doubt in your resolve to process the genocide charge it immediately implies that you don`t believe in its success.
Furthermore you show your true attitude towards Serbs in Croatia by using them as chess pawns.
Very,very bad!

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Vuk, regardless of what Croatia does, Serbian victims deserve justice.
I see you don't get that.

After WW2 Tito let us down by not acknoledging the victims of Jasenovac and the like. I can understand him not wanting justice for Serbs, but you!!!

What is your problem?

Peggy

pre 14 godina

"Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!"
(Ian, UK, 3 January 2010, 14:34)"
---------------

As a Brit, why do you care about this? If Albanians and Serbs want to sit down and talk why would you hate this idea?
You say you are not Albanian so it shoud not anger you so much.

Mister

pre 14 godina

"
Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!
(Ian, UK, 3 January 2010, 14:34)"

Resolved status, a final and binding agreement, peace and the avoidance of future conflict. That is a lot. The truth is that you don't know what a possible compromise could be in the "current" climate so why close your mind to the possibility?

Golden Rule

pre 14 godina

"I think it would be better for Croatia for it to never come to this process"

For Croatian politics and its image yes,but not for the Croatian people and the rest of the world community.

Asking the Croatian people, or any other people to come face to face with their "crimes" against humanity is simply asking them to come face to face with their lifelong illusions and denials and is a good and positive request--it's like going to confession, leaving the past behind and being "born again". ( Ask the Germans). It's the only way a people can begin to heal for real and be a healthy partner in the world community.

By failing to recognize the Croation WW2 Nazi past and their extermination of several ethnic groups in their folklore-glorified concentration camps, and by failing to return the hundreds of thousands of ethnically cleansed Serbs from Krajina back to their homes and land, and by failing to recognize the human spoilage committed by the Croatian Ustasha under president Tudjman and the deliberate shelling of Krajina Serb civilians during the campaign of ethnic cleansing under general Gotovina's Operation SStorm, and by failing to recognize the significance of this lawsuit for lasting peace and healing is ALSO short-sighted and irresponsible.

Suing Croatia is a win-win for all humanity.
It brings us all face to face with "hell", and exposes all of us to our boundless potential for "evil" as humans. It also reminds us--again--of how much more we need to work to bring awareness of our past mistakes so we can all try to understand, heal, move on and cooperate in a unified spirit of love and forgiveness. Let us all walk together through this miasma side by side, with no one ahead and no one behind.

Rote

pre 14 godina

There are no more economical reasons for EU enlargement. Even if there were no crisis EU can’t afford repeating the mistakes made in Latvia , Estonia , Romania , Bulgaria , Hungary and Lithonia. Even if there were no Turkey ,Ukraine , Georgia and the Balkan states EU cannot swallow new problems the candidates will bring. So to my mind from now on any enlargement will have a firm political and especially military context.

If so Serbia is making a wise and in time step with Croatia. ICJ will have to assume what everybody already knows. Besides the history of the conflict will take us back to WW2 when instead of punishing Croats Serbs has saved them from Nurnberg Tribunal. In Today’s Europe nobody is interested in being back to the anti Serb wars launched by NATO and it’s satellites.

So the ultimatum is to make Serbia closer to the integration based on political reasons. Up to now Serbia has been blackmailed and I am happy to see that our brothers have proved to be good pupils ! Let’s try to exchange integration for closing our eyes at some things they would like to forget. Guess it’s what they call as REAL POLITICS.

Ликота

pre 14 godina

Dear Mr. Jeremic...Serbia should sue Croatia regardless whether or not Croatia decides to withdrawl it's suit. There is a lot to be told that needs not to be forgotten. Not to proceed is criminal and treasonous. If Tito and the Communist Party of Yugolavia found it more necessary to make inacurate films (complete lies) about the Chetniks, it's high time that this government starts righting the wrongs of it's predecessor and shed light on who the Croatians and KPJ really are...because they are the successors to Pavelic's and Tito's Croatia.

Velja

pre 14 godina

As for the Croation lawsuit submitted to the ICJ indicting Serbia for genocide in the war period 1991-95., Serbia responded with countersuit,indicting Croatia for ethnic cleansing of Serbs in military operations’’ Blijesak’’ and’’ Oluja’’in the same war period. Chances are slim for either country. In the former Bosnian suit, Serbia was indicted for committing genocide in that teritory ,but as it could not be substantiated, the ICJ ruling was that Serbia did not participate in genocide. War crimes and great damages were inflicted by all war-waging ethnic groups in Croatia,but they are not supposed to be genocide. On the other hand, if Croatia does not back down and drop the charges against Serbia, Serbia has strong’’ trump’’ to prove that Croatia really committed genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Recently we have heard a lot of speculations by Croation officials, especially by ’’wisecracking’’ president Mesic that Serbia is not able to substantiate its lawsuit. He keeps on demonizing Serbian policy in the region. If either side toned down speech ,they might reach settlement ,drop charges and discuss problems

Ian, UK

pre 14 godina

“We will do everything to separate the EU association process and determining the future status of Kosovo in 2010, which will be a key year for the future status of Kosovo, especially the period after which the International Court of Justice gives its stance (on the legality of Kosovo independent), which will be very intensive and dynamic in a diplomatic sense for this country,”

Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

“I think it would be better for Croatia for it to never come to this process. Our main goal and wish is not to sue each other, but to cooperate on the road towards EU integration, to build good neighborly relations, to solve problems which we have inherited,” he said regarding the decision to submit a countersuit for genocide against Croatia.


I can see that Vuk is geting mighty worried allready.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

“I think it would be better for Croatia for it to never come to this process. Our main goal and wish is not to sue each other, but to cooperate on the road towards EU integration, to build good neighborly relations, to solve problems which we have inherited,” he said regarding the decision to submit a countersuit for genocide against Croatia.


I can see that Vuk is geting mighty worried allready.

Ian, UK

pre 14 godina

“We will do everything to separate the EU association process and determining the future status of Kosovo in 2010, which will be a key year for the future status of Kosovo, especially the period after which the International Court of Justice gives its stance (on the legality of Kosovo independent), which will be very intensive and dynamic in a diplomatic sense for this country,”

Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!

Velja

pre 14 godina

As for the Croation lawsuit submitted to the ICJ indicting Serbia for genocide in the war period 1991-95., Serbia responded with countersuit,indicting Croatia for ethnic cleansing of Serbs in military operations’’ Blijesak’’ and’’ Oluja’’in the same war period. Chances are slim for either country. In the former Bosnian suit, Serbia was indicted for committing genocide in that teritory ,but as it could not be substantiated, the ICJ ruling was that Serbia did not participate in genocide. War crimes and great damages were inflicted by all war-waging ethnic groups in Croatia,but they are not supposed to be genocide. On the other hand, if Croatia does not back down and drop the charges against Serbia, Serbia has strong’’ trump’’ to prove that Croatia really committed genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Recently we have heard a lot of speculations by Croation officials, especially by ’’wisecracking’’ president Mesic that Serbia is not able to substantiate its lawsuit. He keeps on demonizing Serbian policy in the region. If either side toned down speech ,they might reach settlement ,drop charges and discuss problems

Golden Rule

pre 14 godina

"I think it would be better for Croatia for it to never come to this process"

For Croatian politics and its image yes,but not for the Croatian people and the rest of the world community.

Asking the Croatian people, or any other people to come face to face with their "crimes" against humanity is simply asking them to come face to face with their lifelong illusions and denials and is a good and positive request--it's like going to confession, leaving the past behind and being "born again". ( Ask the Germans). It's the only way a people can begin to heal for real and be a healthy partner in the world community.

By failing to recognize the Croation WW2 Nazi past and their extermination of several ethnic groups in their folklore-glorified concentration camps, and by failing to return the hundreds of thousands of ethnically cleansed Serbs from Krajina back to their homes and land, and by failing to recognize the human spoilage committed by the Croatian Ustasha under president Tudjman and the deliberate shelling of Krajina Serb civilians during the campaign of ethnic cleansing under general Gotovina's Operation SStorm, and by failing to recognize the significance of this lawsuit for lasting peace and healing is ALSO short-sighted and irresponsible.

Suing Croatia is a win-win for all humanity.
It brings us all face to face with "hell", and exposes all of us to our boundless potential for "evil" as humans. It also reminds us--again--of how much more we need to work to bring awareness of our past mistakes so we can all try to understand, heal, move on and cooperate in a unified spirit of love and forgiveness. Let us all walk together through this miasma side by side, with no one ahead and no one behind.

Ликота

pre 14 godina

Dear Mr. Jeremic...Serbia should sue Croatia regardless whether or not Croatia decides to withdrawl it's suit. There is a lot to be told that needs not to be forgotten. Not to proceed is criminal and treasonous. If Tito and the Communist Party of Yugolavia found it more necessary to make inacurate films (complete lies) about the Chetniks, it's high time that this government starts righting the wrongs of it's predecessor and shed light on who the Croatians and KPJ really are...because they are the successors to Pavelic's and Tito's Croatia.

Rote

pre 14 godina

There are no more economical reasons for EU enlargement. Even if there were no crisis EU can’t afford repeating the mistakes made in Latvia , Estonia , Romania , Bulgaria , Hungary and Lithonia. Even if there were no Turkey ,Ukraine , Georgia and the Balkan states EU cannot swallow new problems the candidates will bring. So to my mind from now on any enlargement will have a firm political and especially military context.

If so Serbia is making a wise and in time step with Croatia. ICJ will have to assume what everybody already knows. Besides the history of the conflict will take us back to WW2 when instead of punishing Croats Serbs has saved them from Nurnberg Tribunal. In Today’s Europe nobody is interested in being back to the anti Serb wars launched by NATO and it’s satellites.

So the ultimatum is to make Serbia closer to the integration based on political reasons. Up to now Serbia has been blackmailed and I am happy to see that our brothers have proved to be good pupils ! Let’s try to exchange integration for closing our eyes at some things they would like to forget. Guess it’s what they call as REAL POLITICS.

Peggy

pre 14 godina

"Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!"
(Ian, UK, 3 January 2010, 14:34)"
---------------

As a Brit, why do you care about this? If Albanians and Serbs want to sit down and talk why would you hate this idea?
You say you are not Albanian so it shoud not anger you so much.

Mister

pre 14 godina

"
Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!
(Ian, UK, 3 January 2010, 14:34)"

Resolved status, a final and binding agreement, peace and the avoidance of future conflict. That is a lot. The truth is that you don't know what a possible compromise could be in the "current" climate so why close your mind to the possibility?

Jovan R.

pre 14 godina

There's good reason for Jeremic's reluctance to take Serbia's case to court.

Unlike some of the commenters, the foreign minister may have some idea of what such a suit can and cannot do. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is not a war crimes court. And it is not the ICJ's task to establish the truth about historical events.

The ICJ is a court established by the United Nations to rule on specific kinds of disputes between countries. The cases this court handles concern matters such as border disputes or alleged violations of specific treaty obligations.

Among those international treaties is the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Tito's Yugoslavia was one of the original state parties to the Genocide Convention (it signed the Convention in 1948, and ratified it in 1950).

The Republic of Croatia did not become a state party to the Genocide Convention until October 1992, after it became independent and joined the United Nations. As such Croatia may be called to account for any violations of the convention that occurred after October 1992.

Under these circumstances, it's important to remember that atrocities that were committed in World War II (such as Jasenovac) are not subject to the ICJ's jurisdiction -- those horrors occurred before the Genocide Convention was enacted, indeed before the ICJ itself came into being. The court has no "retroactive" jurisdiction and it cannot rule on such matters.

The events of the 1990s in Croatia do fall under the ICJ's jurisdiction, but only if it can be established that the Genocide Convention was violated. Remember that this is a court that does not deal with cases of crimes against humanity or other war crimes. The ICJ is only empowered to rule on treaty violations.

There were undeniably war crimes committed during the 1991-1995 war in Croatia, including crimes connected with the 1995 Operation "Storm" and its aftermath. But genocide is a different matter entirely, and one that is much harder to prove.

As has been noted by several legal experts, including Prof. Tibor Varadi, who represented Serbia before the ICJ in the Bosnian genocide case, proving that the Croatian government violated the Genocide Convention in the period 1992-1995 will be very difficult, from a legal point of view.

CG

pre 14 godina

This statement is really dumb!
If you make such and offer and show a little bit of doubt in your resolve to process the genocide charge it immediately implies that you don`t believe in its success.
Furthermore you show your true attitude towards Serbs in Croatia by using them as chess pawns.
Very,very bad!

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Vuk, regardless of what Croatia does, Serbian victims deserve justice.
I see you don't get that.

After WW2 Tito let us down by not acknoledging the victims of Jasenovac and the like. I can understand him not wanting justice for Serbs, but you!!!

What is your problem?

Denis

pre 14 godina

Suing Croatia is a win-win for all humanity.
It brings us all face to face with "hell", and exposes all of us to our boundless potential for "evil" as humans. It also reminds us--again--of how much more we need to work to bring awareness of our past mistakes so we can all try to understand, heal, move on and cooperate in a unified spirit of love and forgiveness. Let us all walk together through this miasma side by side, with no one ahead and no one behind.
(Golden Rule, 3 January 2010 19:36)

Very poetic, but nonsense. How did serbs came face-to-face with their attrocities committed only a 10-20 years ago? Please explain this, cause for what I see many here believe Serbs and Serbia had done nothing wrong. How did serbs reconciled with their crimes?

You think Croats will ask forgiveness, and repent? This is Balkans, none is sorry for what they have done in the past. Croats will only fight back by digging further in history to show their sufferings from Serb.

It is the worse political move Serbia can do, especially when it claims itself to be a "regional leadr". Indeed it is clear that it's a half-hearted move. Croatia will slam the doors to EU by trying to block everything they can for Serbia. The tension will only increase and hurt everyone in the Western Balkans.

K-Alb might do the same thing to Serbia as well which again will be very unwise and extreme, but this is Balkan style politics, and Serbia is the leader on this.

You want to build a future in the Balkans by pointing the finger, blaming for genocide and referencing to the past..... God help you! This is how Yugoslavia was destroyed and how hudred of thousands died. History has tought you nothing.

Golden Rule

pre 14 godina

"Very poetic, but nonsense. How did Serbs came face-to-face with their attrocities committed only a 10-20 years ago? Please explain this" Dennis?

Serbia's President Tadic acknowledged that wrongs were committed by both sides, he publicly recognized what he saw as Serbia's mistakes and he asked his nation to move forward.

Also by hunting down, handing over, arresting, trying, convicting, handing down long sentences and imprisoning every war criminal they laid their hands on. Even those Serbs that merely rubbed shoulders and smelled like war criminals were visiting emergency rooms from panic attacks and other fear related illnesses, while the Croats, their politicians and community leaders were going to Thompson's concerts. Does this explain it plain and clear?

Serbamer

pre 14 godina

Vuk, regardless of what Croatia does, Serbian victims deserve justice.
I see you don't get that. -----Peggy

Peggy,

Many in the West don't get that either.
The Americans of all westerners should be glad to see justice served for the families of those which risked their lives in order to save American pilots which were shot down over Croatia.

Dan

pre 14 godina

I can see that Vuk is geting mighty worried allready.
(Kosova-USA, 3 January 2010 12:50)
Vuk is only worried about the implications and who these cases might ineverdently drag into. The Germans for their early recognition(badinter commision report) and other nations which could harm Serbia's EU integration process.
The Serbian suit is much stronger than Croatia's for the simple fact "intent" can be proven from many examples such as the Croat govt policy of destroying the Serb rights to being a constituent people in Croatia, and the statements of Boljakovic, (Serbs and Yugoslavia were Under Attack, Not Croatia In the exclusive interview, Franjo Tudjman’s Internal Affairs Minister Josip Boljkovac; “Tudjman wanted the war at any cost, following the concept according to which Serbs must disappear from Croatia,” Boljkovac said.)
The minutes of the meeting of the Croat leadership prior to operation Storm and failure to hand over missing artillery log books implicates civilian were targets and the aim of driving out the Serb population was planned and executed. If the Serbian legal team is clever and does not drag the other nations into this Croatia could be left with the behinds hanging out the window. I'm sorry to say but the good old days of lobbying and buying PR opinion don't work in court and this is why it is so hard for some commentators to grasp Serbia's right to a counter suit.
Peace is easy it requires two honest leaders to implement the Z4 plan.
Perhaps I leave some of the commentators here with a comment from Drazen Lalic after watching the doco "Storm over Krajina" maybee then we might be enlightened.
"I was astounded by the human race as a whole. I felt guilty for it all, not as a Croat, but as a human being. I believe it is high time we ceased being Croats, Serbs, leftists and rightists and start being simply humans. Let us stop doing to others what we do not want done to ourselves and let us stop defending such behavior", was the comment of dr. Drazen Lalic, a sociologist.
Think about it folks.

Jovan R.

pre 14 godina

Deliberately targeting civilians and driving out a population are acts that qualify as war crimes. But while war crimes and 'ethnic cleansing' are terrible crimes, they are not the same as genocide -- that is what the ICJ ruled in the Bosnian genocide case,

Genocide is the only thing the ICJ can rule on. The ICJ cannot and will not decide which side was the aggressor in 1991, it won't rule on whether (or when) Germany or any other states should (or should not) have recognized Croatia and Slovenia; it will not rule on whether the political rights of the Serbs in Croatia were violated; and it will not rule on which side was responsible for war crimes. Those are all questions outside of the ICJ's jurisdiction.

What the ICJ can decide comes down to a two-part question: (a.) whether genocide was committed in Croatia in 1991-1995, and (b.) if so, whether either Serbia or Croatia can be held responsible for it.

My guess is that the court will rule "no" on part (a.). In other words, that whatever crimes were committed by either side, those acts did not add up to genocide. A "no" on the first part of the question makes a decision on part (b.) unnecessary.

My prediction is that both Croatia and Serbia will lose their respective cases.

Amer

pre 14 godina

Thank you, Jovan R - I was wondering why they were going to the ICJ (rather than the ICTY).

Would you happen to know if Serbia could simply refuse to respond to Croatia's charges, under the rule that no country can be tried without its consent?

Michael R.

pre 14 godina

Like Jovan indicated in an earlier post below, I sense weakness on the part of Serbia. This is revealed by the back peddling by Jeremic concerning whether Serbia wishes to go forward with the genocide case against Croatia. However, Vuk, don't count on Croatia backing down as far as their genocide charges against Serbia is concerned.

Sloven

pre 14 godina

A successful law suit will result in justice being served.
Avoiding a court room showdown will result in better finance.
An unsuccessful court room campaign is a dreadful thought.

Kosova-USA

pre 14 godina

“I think it would be better for Croatia for it to never come to this process. Our main goal and wish is not to sue each other, but to cooperate on the road towards EU integration, to build good neighborly relations, to solve problems which we have inherited,” he said regarding the decision to submit a countersuit for genocide against Croatia.


I can see that Vuk is geting mighty worried allready.

Ian, UK

pre 14 godina

“We will do everything to separate the EU association process and determining the future status of Kosovo in 2010, which will be a key year for the future status of Kosovo, especially the period after which the International Court of Justice gives its stance (on the legality of Kosovo independent), which will be very intensive and dynamic in a diplomatic sense for this country,”

Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!

Velja

pre 14 godina

As for the Croation lawsuit submitted to the ICJ indicting Serbia for genocide in the war period 1991-95., Serbia responded with countersuit,indicting Croatia for ethnic cleansing of Serbs in military operations’’ Blijesak’’ and’’ Oluja’’in the same war period. Chances are slim for either country. In the former Bosnian suit, Serbia was indicted for committing genocide in that teritory ,but as it could not be substantiated, the ICJ ruling was that Serbia did not participate in genocide. War crimes and great damages were inflicted by all war-waging ethnic groups in Croatia,but they are not supposed to be genocide. On the other hand, if Croatia does not back down and drop the charges against Serbia, Serbia has strong’’ trump’’ to prove that Croatia really committed genocide against Serbs in the World War Two, when about seven hundred thousand Serbs were killed . There is a lot of evidence to substantiate this claim. Recently we have heard a lot of speculations by Croation officials, especially by ’’wisecracking’’ president Mesic that Serbia is not able to substantiate its lawsuit. He keeps on demonizing Serbian policy in the region. If either side toned down speech ,they might reach settlement ,drop charges and discuss problems

Ликота

pre 14 godina

Dear Mr. Jeremic...Serbia should sue Croatia regardless whether or not Croatia decides to withdrawl it's suit. There is a lot to be told that needs not to be forgotten. Not to proceed is criminal and treasonous. If Tito and the Communist Party of Yugolavia found it more necessary to make inacurate films (complete lies) about the Chetniks, it's high time that this government starts righting the wrongs of it's predecessor and shed light on who the Croatians and KPJ really are...because they are the successors to Pavelic's and Tito's Croatia.

Denis

pre 14 godina

Suing Croatia is a win-win for all humanity.
It brings us all face to face with "hell", and exposes all of us to our boundless potential for "evil" as humans. It also reminds us--again--of how much more we need to work to bring awareness of our past mistakes so we can all try to understand, heal, move on and cooperate in a unified spirit of love and forgiveness. Let us all walk together through this miasma side by side, with no one ahead and no one behind.
(Golden Rule, 3 January 2010 19:36)

Very poetic, but nonsense. How did serbs came face-to-face with their attrocities committed only a 10-20 years ago? Please explain this, cause for what I see many here believe Serbs and Serbia had done nothing wrong. How did serbs reconciled with their crimes?

You think Croats will ask forgiveness, and repent? This is Balkans, none is sorry for what they have done in the past. Croats will only fight back by digging further in history to show their sufferings from Serb.

It is the worse political move Serbia can do, especially when it claims itself to be a "regional leadr". Indeed it is clear that it's a half-hearted move. Croatia will slam the doors to EU by trying to block everything they can for Serbia. The tension will only increase and hurt everyone in the Western Balkans.

K-Alb might do the same thing to Serbia as well which again will be very unwise and extreme, but this is Balkan style politics, and Serbia is the leader on this.

You want to build a future in the Balkans by pointing the finger, blaming for genocide and referencing to the past..... God help you! This is how Yugoslavia was destroyed and how hudred of thousands died. History has tought you nothing.

Golden Rule

pre 14 godina

"I think it would be better for Croatia for it to never come to this process"

For Croatian politics and its image yes,but not for the Croatian people and the rest of the world community.

Asking the Croatian people, or any other people to come face to face with their "crimes" against humanity is simply asking them to come face to face with their lifelong illusions and denials and is a good and positive request--it's like going to confession, leaving the past behind and being "born again". ( Ask the Germans). It's the only way a people can begin to heal for real and be a healthy partner in the world community.

By failing to recognize the Croation WW2 Nazi past and their extermination of several ethnic groups in their folklore-glorified concentration camps, and by failing to return the hundreds of thousands of ethnically cleansed Serbs from Krajina back to their homes and land, and by failing to recognize the human spoilage committed by the Croatian Ustasha under president Tudjman and the deliberate shelling of Krajina Serb civilians during the campaign of ethnic cleansing under general Gotovina's Operation SStorm, and by failing to recognize the significance of this lawsuit for lasting peace and healing is ALSO short-sighted and irresponsible.

Suing Croatia is a win-win for all humanity.
It brings us all face to face with "hell", and exposes all of us to our boundless potential for "evil" as humans. It also reminds us--again--of how much more we need to work to bring awareness of our past mistakes so we can all try to understand, heal, move on and cooperate in a unified spirit of love and forgiveness. Let us all walk together through this miasma side by side, with no one ahead and no one behind.

Mister

pre 14 godina

"
Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!
(Ian, UK, 3 January 2010, 14:34)"

Resolved status, a final and binding agreement, peace and the avoidance of future conflict. That is a lot. The truth is that you don't know what a possible compromise could be in the "current" climate so why close your mind to the possibility?

Peggy

pre 14 godina

"Jeremic is still day dreaming. There will never ever be status talks between Kosovo and Serbia again. What would make Kosovo give up it's independence what Serbia can offer? Nothing!"
(Ian, UK, 3 January 2010, 14:34)"
---------------

As a Brit, why do you care about this? If Albanians and Serbs want to sit down and talk why would you hate this idea?
You say you are not Albanian so it shoud not anger you so much.

Jovan R.

pre 14 godina

There's good reason for Jeremic's reluctance to take Serbia's case to court.

Unlike some of the commenters, the foreign minister may have some idea of what such a suit can and cannot do. The International Court of Justice (ICJ) is not a war crimes court. And it is not the ICJ's task to establish the truth about historical events.

The ICJ is a court established by the United Nations to rule on specific kinds of disputes between countries. The cases this court handles concern matters such as border disputes or alleged violations of specific treaty obligations.

Among those international treaties is the 1948 Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide. Tito's Yugoslavia was one of the original state parties to the Genocide Convention (it signed the Convention in 1948, and ratified it in 1950).

The Republic of Croatia did not become a state party to the Genocide Convention until October 1992, after it became independent and joined the United Nations. As such Croatia may be called to account for any violations of the convention that occurred after October 1992.

Under these circumstances, it's important to remember that atrocities that were committed in World War II (such as Jasenovac) are not subject to the ICJ's jurisdiction -- those horrors occurred before the Genocide Convention was enacted, indeed before the ICJ itself came into being. The court has no "retroactive" jurisdiction and it cannot rule on such matters.

The events of the 1990s in Croatia do fall under the ICJ's jurisdiction, but only if it can be established that the Genocide Convention was violated. Remember that this is a court that does not deal with cases of crimes against humanity or other war crimes. The ICJ is only empowered to rule on treaty violations.

There were undeniably war crimes committed during the 1991-1995 war in Croatia, including crimes connected with the 1995 Operation "Storm" and its aftermath. But genocide is a different matter entirely, and one that is much harder to prove.

As has been noted by several legal experts, including Prof. Tibor Varadi, who represented Serbia before the ICJ in the Bosnian genocide case, proving that the Croatian government violated the Genocide Convention in the period 1992-1995 will be very difficult, from a legal point of view.

Rote

pre 14 godina

There are no more economical reasons for EU enlargement. Even if there were no crisis EU can’t afford repeating the mistakes made in Latvia , Estonia , Romania , Bulgaria , Hungary and Lithonia. Even if there were no Turkey ,Ukraine , Georgia and the Balkan states EU cannot swallow new problems the candidates will bring. So to my mind from now on any enlargement will have a firm political and especially military context.

If so Serbia is making a wise and in time step with Croatia. ICJ will have to assume what everybody already knows. Besides the history of the conflict will take us back to WW2 when instead of punishing Croats Serbs has saved them from Nurnberg Tribunal. In Today’s Europe nobody is interested in being back to the anti Serb wars launched by NATO and it’s satellites.

So the ultimatum is to make Serbia closer to the integration based on political reasons. Up to now Serbia has been blackmailed and I am happy to see that our brothers have proved to be good pupils ! Let’s try to exchange integration for closing our eyes at some things they would like to forget. Guess it’s what they call as REAL POLITICS.

Michael R.

pre 14 godina

Like Jovan indicated in an earlier post below, I sense weakness on the part of Serbia. This is revealed by the back peddling by Jeremic concerning whether Serbia wishes to go forward with the genocide case against Croatia. However, Vuk, don't count on Croatia backing down as far as their genocide charges against Serbia is concerned.

Peggy

pre 14 godina

Vuk, regardless of what Croatia does, Serbian victims deserve justice.
I see you don't get that.

After WW2 Tito let us down by not acknoledging the victims of Jasenovac and the like. I can understand him not wanting justice for Serbs, but you!!!

What is your problem?

CG

pre 14 godina

This statement is really dumb!
If you make such and offer and show a little bit of doubt in your resolve to process the genocide charge it immediately implies that you don`t believe in its success.
Furthermore you show your true attitude towards Serbs in Croatia by using them as chess pawns.
Very,very bad!

Dan

pre 14 godina

I can see that Vuk is geting mighty worried allready.
(Kosova-USA, 3 January 2010 12:50)
Vuk is only worried about the implications and who these cases might ineverdently drag into. The Germans for their early recognition(badinter commision report) and other nations which could harm Serbia's EU integration process.
The Serbian suit is much stronger than Croatia's for the simple fact "intent" can be proven from many examples such as the Croat govt policy of destroying the Serb rights to being a constituent people in Croatia, and the statements of Boljakovic, (Serbs and Yugoslavia were Under Attack, Not Croatia In the exclusive interview, Franjo Tudjman’s Internal Affairs Minister Josip Boljkovac; “Tudjman wanted the war at any cost, following the concept according to which Serbs must disappear from Croatia,” Boljkovac said.)
The minutes of the meeting of the Croat leadership prior to operation Storm and failure to hand over missing artillery log books implicates civilian were targets and the aim of driving out the Serb population was planned and executed. If the Serbian legal team is clever and does not drag the other nations into this Croatia could be left with the behinds hanging out the window. I'm sorry to say but the good old days of lobbying and buying PR opinion don't work in court and this is why it is so hard for some commentators to grasp Serbia's right to a counter suit.
Peace is easy it requires two honest leaders to implement the Z4 plan.
Perhaps I leave some of the commentators here with a comment from Drazen Lalic after watching the doco "Storm over Krajina" maybee then we might be enlightened.
"I was astounded by the human race as a whole. I felt guilty for it all, not as a Croat, but as a human being. I believe it is high time we ceased being Croats, Serbs, leftists and rightists and start being simply humans. Let us stop doing to others what we do not want done to ourselves and let us stop defending such behavior", was the comment of dr. Drazen Lalic, a sociologist.
Think about it folks.

Serbamer

pre 14 godina

Vuk, regardless of what Croatia does, Serbian victims deserve justice.
I see you don't get that. -----Peggy

Peggy,

Many in the West don't get that either.
The Americans of all westerners should be glad to see justice served for the families of those which risked their lives in order to save American pilots which were shot down over Croatia.

Amer

pre 14 godina

Thank you, Jovan R - I was wondering why they were going to the ICJ (rather than the ICTY).

Would you happen to know if Serbia could simply refuse to respond to Croatia's charges, under the rule that no country can be tried without its consent?

Golden Rule

pre 14 godina

"Very poetic, but nonsense. How did Serbs came face-to-face with their attrocities committed only a 10-20 years ago? Please explain this" Dennis?

Serbia's President Tadic acknowledged that wrongs were committed by both sides, he publicly recognized what he saw as Serbia's mistakes and he asked his nation to move forward.

Also by hunting down, handing over, arresting, trying, convicting, handing down long sentences and imprisoning every war criminal they laid their hands on. Even those Serbs that merely rubbed shoulders and smelled like war criminals were visiting emergency rooms from panic attacks and other fear related illnesses, while the Croats, their politicians and community leaders were going to Thompson's concerts. Does this explain it plain and clear?

Sloven

pre 14 godina

A successful law suit will result in justice being served.
Avoiding a court room showdown will result in better finance.
An unsuccessful court room campaign is a dreadful thought.

Jovan R.

pre 14 godina

Deliberately targeting civilians and driving out a population are acts that qualify as war crimes. But while war crimes and 'ethnic cleansing' are terrible crimes, they are not the same as genocide -- that is what the ICJ ruled in the Bosnian genocide case,

Genocide is the only thing the ICJ can rule on. The ICJ cannot and will not decide which side was the aggressor in 1991, it won't rule on whether (or when) Germany or any other states should (or should not) have recognized Croatia and Slovenia; it will not rule on whether the political rights of the Serbs in Croatia were violated; and it will not rule on which side was responsible for war crimes. Those are all questions outside of the ICJ's jurisdiction.

What the ICJ can decide comes down to a two-part question: (a.) whether genocide was committed in Croatia in 1991-1995, and (b.) if so, whether either Serbia or Croatia can be held responsible for it.

My guess is that the court will rule "no" on part (a.). In other words, that whatever crimes were committed by either side, those acts did not add up to genocide. A "no" on the first part of the question makes a decision on part (b.) unnecessary.

My prediction is that both Croatia and Serbia will lose their respective cases.