Bulgarian envoy on EU, Kosovo

"but we expect that the decision will be formulated in such a way that will leave space for various interpretations."

So, who will be right? The Serbs? The Albanians? If both sides interpret that they are right then who really is? There needs to be real negotiations to find an agreement that BOTH sides agree on. If not Kosovo is getting partitioned and RS is no more part of Bosnia.

Treason is the Bulgarian way. This rule had no exclusions in the 20-th century. So Bulgaria just keeps up their national traditions in foreign policy. As simple as that !

"However, one needs to understand that the existing position on recognizing the independence of any country is very difficult to change," said Dimitrov.


Tell them Dimitrov,becasue some people just don't get it.

MikeC,
i am going to go out on a limb and say MIRCEA.

Ian


After two severe wars Russia launched in the end of the 19-th century to set them free they had no right to fight on the German side in both of the World Wars. As well as to become so active in NATO. For me personally Bulgaria is a synonym of treason and unthankfulness. Serbia could never afford such behavior and this why I am here now and then !

Treason is the Bulgarian way. This rule had no exclusions in the 20-th century. So Bulgaria just keeps up their national traditions in foreign policy. As simple as that !
(Rote, 2 January 2010 15:27)

Treason against whom? Bulgaria has not committed treason as far as I'm aware.

Interesting how we have two separate camps in the UDI is OK camp.

Those countries that say it’s “irreversible” and those countries that say it’s “not likely”.

I can live with “not likely”.

It simply means they’ll vote with the majority (sort of spineless but whatever). The good thing is countries like this would certain support a mutually acceptable plan such as partition. There’s really only just a couple countries that insist on complete un-negotiable independence.

Ian

«Also remember that the USSR installed a Soviet regime in Bulgaria and thus remained a Satellite state until 1989, which was a very dark period for Bulgarians.»

Thank you for the joke ! But you must be aware of what has happened on September 9 of 1944 when local communists seized power. Also such countries like Bulgaria have to be someone’s satellites. Bulgaria proves it every day. Unfortunately states under 30-40 millions of population cannot enjoy independence in the meaning of the word. If you know such a state in Europe please let me know. Also the economical situation here has worsened much after the change of the patrons. The Bulgarians are still at a loss. They have to chose between their Turkish blood , their Orthodox Church , their Gabsburg Tsars , and their historical debt before Russia.

Cheers !

Bulgaria's stance will depend on how much money USA pumps into it.

Perhaps South Stream will convince Bulgaria to revoke recognition of Kosovo but recognise SO and Ab? Lets see how well Russia plays its cards.
(Zoran, 3 January 2010 00:49)

I'm not sure its meant to work that way Zorane. Serbia got pummeled in 99 by the US and their lackeys in order to humiliate Russia and edge closer to Russia's periphery. Russia by defending SO in 08 was merely giving the US a back-hander for 99 and Shakashvilli's lunacy. The current status quo suits RUssia because it doesn't cost her as much as it costs US/NATO to maintain the "Kosova" stillborn organism. Russia has and will back Serbia to the extreme but they can't defend Kosovo more than Belgrade currently is which is not very much. Georgia is much more important to the US than that thing they call "Kosova".

Ian

“It has no reasons to feel indebted to anyone”

This is what I call treason. So all your arguments can justify nothing. At least from my Russian point of view. For 50 years you called yourself as Russia’s best friends and then as usual at the first opportunity you have stroke us from behind. Third time in one century. So now tell your fairy tales to someone else. Stories that Russia seeked for your territories may persuade someone else outside Russia. As well as that you betrayed us because Serbs had not signed a treaty … If the Yankees love you more be their satellite.

We don’t mind cause soon after Plevna Bulgaria has become a Trojan Horse in the Orthodox World and this is the truth we all have to live with. Though there used to be a big gap between common Bulgarians and the elites it made little difference for us cause instead of fighting us directly you killed our allies in Yugoslavia. So you won’t wash out your face with the comments you leave here. And of course in this forum you are the first person trying to justify fighting on the fascist’s side. Neither the Croats nor the Albanians has fallen so low.

Perhaps South Stream will convince Bulgaria to revoke recognition of Kosovo but recognise SO and Ab? Lets see how well Russia plays its cards.

Treason against whom? Bulgaria has not committed treason as far as I'm aware.
(Ian, UK, 2 January 2010 16:59)

This is a difficult question. After the first Balkan war Bulgaria was regarded as Russia's "extended hand". To restrict Russia - in their "infinite wisdom" the "Big Wise West ™" did chop out some core parts of Bulgaria (did you know, Ohrid was Bulgaria's capital a while ago?) and that made Bulgarians mad like hell (I wonder, why).

And since - Bulgaria's some very basic aspirations are to recover the lost parts. Even while making some most dumb decisions in their history.

Hence, if there wouldn't be the Kosovo-problem, there would be a Bulgaria-"Macedonia" - Greece problem. But wait, there is some.

Did Bulgaria betray Russia or Serbia? For sure, they did. Who is at the core of the problem? UK politics of late 19th/early 20th century, of course.

Here you go, with the answer I am sure you would not like at all, but it is true.

"However, one needs to understand that the existing position on recognizing the independence of any country is very difficult to change," said Dimitrov.
===================

As difficult as it was to recognise it? A stroke of a pen.

Difficult but doable.

>If Russia and Serbia want its friendship they have to offer..

Please Bulgarian. We hardly notice you're on our eastern borders. If it wasnt for all that heroin coming from your way I guarantee it we wouldnt even notice. It could be Turks for all we care. Only horrible war crimes you committed in eastern Serbia when you sided with Germans in two world wars are well remembered. Everytime you raised your head against our interests in the end you got smacked right across your face. So your attitude toward us is completely irrelevant. You love us, hate us, we don't care. You're not one of countries that matter in the least to us or I guess to anyone else.

So keep your nose clean and out of other people's business and keep it down and worry about your problems. Like that your average salaries are lower than in Serbia. And if you went through what we went through in the last 20 years I guarantee it you would not exist today let alone have any salary.

Живели.

"For me personally Bulgaria is a synonym of treason and unthankfulness."

Thankful for what, for Stalin?
(miri, 3 January 2010 02:12)
==================

When Albanians come out here defending you, you know ou're wrong.

Good point Mircea,

The relations between Bulgaria and Romania and Bulgaria and Greece are a good example of how former enemies could turn into good partners. Serbia wil follow suit, the soomer the better. And not only with the ignored Bulgaria, but with its "archenemies" the Croats and the Albanians. So we could tell you: "welcome in the 21 century"

(Matthew, 2 January 2010 18:17)

It is interesting that there is two different camps in the "anti independence" camp. For example you get countries like India, Indonesia, Burundi, Greece, Brazil, Mexico and Egypt who oppose Kosovo's independence, but at the same time say that at some point they will have to accept reality and recognise Kosovo, but not in the near future.
Then you get countries who say they will never recognise Kosovo ever such as Spain, Serbia, Russia, Cyprus, Iran, Belarus, Bolivia and Venezuela.

nik, have you already demolished all of those monuments?

To our Bulgarian 'friends':

You always historically have chosen the wrong side, and you have done so again. You have never ever been Serbia's friend, and have always been to one imperialist or another. This you have in common with your albanian buddies. Serbia will not forget your recognition of the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo.
The land you lost to Serbia in 1919 at the Treaty of Versailles is what you deserved after such treasonous behaviour.
Serbia, along with Republika Srpska, is quite a large and powerful country, and Montenegro will eventually join Serbia again, give it some time to wake up.
Rote -thanks for your excellent posts.
Cheers!!

Tabalija,

Like it or not, Bulgaria achieved most of its national goals although it took more than a 100 years, overcoming enormose setbacks, while Serbia (rewarded so many times) finaly failed dismally. So arrogance is not a good attitude towards a country that is bigger and wealthier than yours whereas thanks to your friend only recently was much poorerand and before your recent escapades - much smaller. As for who committed more crimes Bulgarians against Serbs or vice versa (my grand mother was a refugee from Skopje during the Serb rule) it is a topic that is not going to give any pluses to the Serbs. If you forget about Grasanins attempt to push down the Morava-Vardar valley, which after Kosovo's independence you are not going to be able to do anyway, you may get a strong ally in regards your interests in Montenegro, Bosnia etc.. But as I see you are not interested. It is fine with us too.

nik, have you already demolished all of those monuments?

Not a single one has or will be demolished (even the Soviet ones). The main cathedral in Sofia still bears the name Alexander Nevski. Today, by the way is 132 year of liberation of Sofia by general Gurko and flowers were laid! But we can not be "gratful" for the 1944 invasion, that took place AFTER Bulgaria declared war on nazi Germany! It was done with the single purpose of imposing a communist regime.

Many naive people are putting too much hopes on the advisory opinion of ICJ. How smart and strict the decision will be depends on how wise the question was. To take the honesty side that was a very stupid question. It only tells how desperate the serbian position in this issue is. If Serbia considered that its territorial integrity has been violated then she should sue the countries that recognized Kosovo. The way question was formulated means to sue the people that regardless of some strong commentaries here, Serbia considers its own citizens. As its being said during the public hearings in the court the declaration of independence alone does not produce any political or juridical outcome if there is no country to recognize it. Therefore following the healthy logic the countries who recognized are to be sued internationally and not the people who expressed their will. Serbia did not dare to sue the countries because this would not go through General Assembly and this would block Serbia on its path to EU integrations. Bulgaria and other countries who recognized Kosovo did it to regard the will of the people expressed after long years of opression. The will of the people of Kosovo will not change dependently on court advisory opinion therefore the positions of those countries will not change either.

Did Bulgaria betray Russia or Serbia? For sure, they did. Who is at the core of the problem? UK politics of late 19th/early 20th century, of course.
(Ataman

Did Bulgaria betray Russia? It is a complicated question. In 19th century Bulgaria was the usual battlefield between two semi-oriental empires – The Russian and the Ottoman. Bulgarians wanted to be part of none of them, but to become a European nation instead. The problem was that those empires desperately wanted its territory, while Western Europe was very doubtful about Bulgaria’s belonging to Europe. The British cut Bulgaria on pieces because they believed it would be a Russian satellite. When it proved it wouldn’t, the British supported Bulgaria’s unification with Eastern Roumelia in 1885, which the Russians opposed, and which the Serbs tried to undo with a surprise attack, opening a sad tradition of poisoned Serbo-Bulgarian relations. Nevertheless the two countries , joined by Greece and Montenegro found the Balkan league, and drove the Ottomans from the heart of the Balkans. This war, in which the Bulgarians bore the heaviest brunt in front of the Ottoman capital was the best thing the Balkan nations did in 600 years. The Balkan league failed because Serbia refused to honor the treaty with Bulgaria signed in 1912. Russia too failed to defend Bulgaria's right and soon Bulgaria ended in a war with all of its neighbors. Again in 1915 Bulgaria offered to join the Entente if Serbia honors the treaty of 1912. The Bulgarians got only a vague promise “for after the war”...
Finally Bulgaria achieved its goals, joined NATO and EU. It has no reasons to feel indebted to anyone. If Russia and Serbia want its friendship they have to offer their friendship first.

Tabalija,

According to a Eurostat survey published on 15 December 2009, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per citizen in 2008 for Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia is as follows:

With an EU-27 average of 100%, Romania stands at 47%, Bulgaria at 41% and Serbia at 36%.

Romania and Bulgaria stand higher than Serbia in terms of GDP per citizen.

Romania and Bulgaria are EU Member States. It will take Serbia many years to join the EU.

The lands that Serbs have stolen from Bulgaria, and the treatment of Bulgarians in Serbia is worse than medieval slavery even to this present day. Bulgaria should change its policy towards Serbia to open hostility until crimes against Bulgarians are recognized and put in Serbian history books.

A single apology to all Bulgarians in Serbia and Vardarska Banovina would be a start.

nik, don't try to over write the history.
The Red Army entered BG to fight German troops stationed there. As simple as that!

The lands that Serbs have stolen from Bulgaria, and the treatment of Bulgarians in Serbia is worse than medieval slavery even to this present day. Bulgaria should change its policy towards Serbia to open hostility until crimes against Bulgarians are recognized and put in Serbian history books.

A single apology to all Bulgarians in Serbia and Vardarska Banovina would be a start.
(Banat Bulgarian, 4 January 2010 22:43)
================

Can you please provide us with some examles of this slavery and horrid treatment Bulgarians are getting in Serbia?

This is a very serious accusation which warrants some examples and evidence to be offered.

Bulgaria has built more monuments to express thankfulness to the Russianas than anyone. But the fact remains. It wants to be a European, not a Eurasioan country, the same as Poland, Hungary etc. And to be viewed as such by both Russia and Turkey. This is neither anti-Russian, nor ant-Turkish. Indeed the side effect of Bulgaria and Romania joining NATO was the reconciliation between Russia and Turkey.As for the 50 years of communist rule, it was the communists who claimed to be Russia's best friends, because they knew they unlike the communists in Yugoslavia, Albania, or even Romania they would not stay in power without the Soviet support! Of course I would never justify fighting on the side of the Nazis. But the first goal of Bulgaria during the WWII was somehow to be bypassed by the war.It was not a sane policy of course. A firm allience with the British and the Turks (offered in 1941) gave a better chance to the country to escape the fry. In most territories that were annexed to Bulgaria in 1941 (Macedonia) there was an euphoric welcome. (although sending a small occupation corps to Serbia was indeed a grave mistake).
Finaly in 1991 Macedonia achieved its independence, which should trigger the reconciliation between Bulgaria and Serbia. Few Bulgarians worry about the present anti-Bulgarian sentiment in today's Maacedonia installed by dacades of fiers propaganda. All the Bulgarian soldiers who died for this country did not wish to "conquer" it, but to liberate it. As time passes people there will discover that their origins do not lie with Alexander the Great.
So today Bulgaria is willing to have the best of relations with Russia and Serbia. If only they show mutual respect.

"For me personally Bulgaria is a synonym of treason and unthankfulness."

Thankful for what, for Stalin?

"Thank you for the joke ! But you must be aware of what has happened on September 9 of 1944 when local communists seized power."


Who is joking? The local communists had ghost of a chance to seize the power in Bulgaria without the faith breaking Soviet invasion. (Bulgaria, although a nominal ally of Germany did not declare war to the USSR and kept Soviet embassy in Sofia throughout the war). If there were free elections the Agrarian union was most likely to win, while without Soviet troops on Bulgarian soil, the officers from the “Zveno” union would never allow the communists to seize the power by force.

@ Rote
Bulgaria should do what it believes to be in it's best interests, not on what happened last millennia. We are in a completely different world as we were in the first half of the 20th Century. Also remember that the USSR installed a Soviet regime in Bulgaria and thus remained a Satellite state until 1989, which was a very dark period for Bulgarians.

"Perhaps South Stream will convince Bulgaria to revoke recognition of Kosovo but recognise SO and Ab? Lets see how well Russia plays its cards.
(Zoran, 3 January 2010 00:49)"

Bulgaria would never consider that in a million years, never mind actually do it. Even you know that Zoran. The South Stream is not that important. I think there is more chance of the US leaving NATO.

nik, don't try to over write the history.
The Red Army entered BG to fight German troops stationed there. As simple as that!
(Russian,

ALL the German troops lest Bulgaria in the early days of September 1944.
The Soviet army marched in Bulgaria on 8th of September 1944, hours after the new democratic government set on the 2-nd of September declared a war on Germany. There was no fighting in Bulgaria, not a single Soviet soldier was killed. What happened was that few hours AFTER the Soviet army crossed the border, a coup d'etat took part in Sofia. and a government with communists in it was declared. During the next few days the communist commited countless crimes as they took over the local power all over the country. thousands of supposed "fashists" or "enamies of the people" were killed. THe Soviet troops did not participate in those crimes. BUT their presens paralized all the anti communists, most of them pro-Britis or pro Americam, while the communist felt they could do whatever they pleased with full impunity!

'Therefore following the healthy logic the countries who recognized are to be sued internationally and not the people who expressed their will.'

Where are you going to sue them? No country can be sued against its will in a contentious case at the ICJ. And even if they changed the rules so they could be, the Security Council (US, UK, or France) can veto a decision of the ICJ, even one pertaining to itself.

As for getting another vote from the General Assembly for another advisory opinion, you would be asking states to vote for a ruling that would potentially preclude the use of one of each country's sovereign rights. Good luck with that.

nik, nope.
The Red Army entered BG on Sep.5th, BG government declared war with Germany on Sep. 9th.
The communists, by the way, played significant role in resistanse movement and were quite popular to gain power without RA support.

"However, one needs to understand that the existing position on recognizing the independence of any country is very difficult to change," said Dimitrov.


Tell them Dimitrov,becasue some people just don't get it.

Treason is the Bulgarian way. This rule had no exclusions in the 20-th century. So Bulgaria just keeps up their national traditions in foreign policy. As simple as that !
(Rote, 2 January 2010 15:27)

Treason against whom? Bulgaria has not committed treason as far as I'm aware.

"but we expect that the decision will be formulated in such a way that will leave space for various interpretations."

So, who will be right? The Serbs? The Albanians? If both sides interpret that they are right then who really is? There needs to be real negotiations to find an agreement that BOTH sides agree on. If not Kosovo is getting partitioned and RS is no more part of Bosnia.

(Matthew, 2 January 2010 18:17)

It is interesting that there is two different camps in the "anti independence" camp. For example you get countries like India, Indonesia, Burundi, Greece, Brazil, Mexico and Egypt who oppose Kosovo's independence, but at the same time say that at some point they will have to accept reality and recognise Kosovo, but not in the near future.
Then you get countries who say they will never recognise Kosovo ever such as Spain, Serbia, Russia, Cyprus, Iran, Belarus, Bolivia and Venezuela.

@ Rote
Bulgaria should do what it believes to be in it's best interests, not on what happened last millennia. We are in a completely different world as we were in the first half of the 20th Century. Also remember that the USSR installed a Soviet regime in Bulgaria and thus remained a Satellite state until 1989, which was a very dark period for Bulgarians.

"Perhaps South Stream will convince Bulgaria to revoke recognition of Kosovo but recognise SO and Ab? Lets see how well Russia plays its cards.
(Zoran, 3 January 2010 00:49)"

Bulgaria would never consider that in a million years, never mind actually do it. Even you know that Zoran. The South Stream is not that important. I think there is more chance of the US leaving NATO.

Did Bulgaria betray Russia or Serbia? For sure, they did. Who is at the core of the problem? UK politics of late 19th/early 20th century, of course.
(Ataman

Did Bulgaria betray Russia? It is a complicated question. In 19th century Bulgaria was the usual battlefield between two semi-oriental empires – The Russian and the Ottoman. Bulgarians wanted to be part of none of them, but to become a European nation instead. The problem was that those empires desperately wanted its territory, while Western Europe was very doubtful about Bulgaria’s belonging to Europe. The British cut Bulgaria on pieces because they believed it would be a Russian satellite. When it proved it wouldn’t, the British supported Bulgaria’s unification with Eastern Roumelia in 1885, which the Russians opposed, and which the Serbs tried to undo with a surprise attack, opening a sad tradition of poisoned Serbo-Bulgarian relations. Nevertheless the two countries , joined by Greece and Montenegro found the Balkan league, and drove the Ottomans from the heart of the Balkans. This war, in which the Bulgarians bore the heaviest brunt in front of the Ottoman capital was the best thing the Balkan nations did in 600 years. The Balkan league failed because Serbia refused to honor the treaty with Bulgaria signed in 1912. Russia too failed to defend Bulgaria's right and soon Bulgaria ended in a war with all of its neighbors. Again in 1915 Bulgaria offered to join the Entente if Serbia honors the treaty of 1912. The Bulgarians got only a vague promise “for after the war”...
Finally Bulgaria achieved its goals, joined NATO and EU. It has no reasons to feel indebted to anyone. If Russia and Serbia want its friendship they have to offer their friendship first.

Treason is the Bulgarian way. This rule had no exclusions in the 20-th century. So Bulgaria just keeps up their national traditions in foreign policy. As simple as that !

Interesting how we have two separate camps in the UDI is OK camp.

Those countries that say it’s “irreversible” and those countries that say it’s “not likely”.

I can live with “not likely”.

It simply means they’ll vote with the majority (sort of spineless but whatever). The good thing is countries like this would certain support a mutually acceptable plan such as partition. There’s really only just a couple countries that insist on complete un-negotiable independence.

"For me personally Bulgaria is a synonym of treason and unthankfulness."

Thankful for what, for Stalin?

"Thank you for the joke ! But you must be aware of what has happened on September 9 of 1944 when local communists seized power."


Who is joking? The local communists had ghost of a chance to seize the power in Bulgaria without the faith breaking Soviet invasion. (Bulgaria, although a nominal ally of Germany did not declare war to the USSR and kept Soviet embassy in Sofia throughout the war). If there were free elections the Agrarian union was most likely to win, while without Soviet troops on Bulgarian soil, the officers from the “Zveno” union would never allow the communists to seize the power by force.

Perhaps South Stream will convince Bulgaria to revoke recognition of Kosovo but recognise SO and Ab? Lets see how well Russia plays its cards.

Many naive people are putting too much hopes on the advisory opinion of ICJ. How smart and strict the decision will be depends on how wise the question was. To take the honesty side that was a very stupid question. It only tells how desperate the serbian position in this issue is. If Serbia considered that its territorial integrity has been violated then she should sue the countries that recognized Kosovo. The way question was formulated means to sue the people that regardless of some strong commentaries here, Serbia considers its own citizens. As its being said during the public hearings in the court the declaration of independence alone does not produce any political or juridical outcome if there is no country to recognize it. Therefore following the healthy logic the countries who recognized are to be sued internationally and not the people who expressed their will. Serbia did not dare to sue the countries because this would not go through General Assembly and this would block Serbia on its path to EU integrations. Bulgaria and other countries who recognized Kosovo did it to regard the will of the people expressed after long years of opression. The will of the people of Kosovo will not change dependently on court advisory opinion therefore the positions of those countries will not change either.

MikeC,
i am going to go out on a limb and say MIRCEA.

Tabalija,

According to a Eurostat survey published on 15 December 2009, the Gross Domestic Product (GDP) per citizen in 2008 for Romania, Bulgaria and Serbia is as follows:

With an EU-27 average of 100%, Romania stands at 47%, Bulgaria at 41% and Serbia at 36%.

Romania and Bulgaria stand higher than Serbia in terms of GDP per citizen.

Romania and Bulgaria are EU Member States. It will take Serbia many years to join the EU.

Ian


After two severe wars Russia launched in the end of the 19-th century to set them free they had no right to fight on the German side in both of the World Wars. As well as to become so active in NATO. For me personally Bulgaria is a synonym of treason and unthankfulness. Serbia could never afford such behavior and this why I am here now and then !

Ian

“It has no reasons to feel indebted to anyone”

This is what I call treason. So all your arguments can justify nothing. At least from my Russian point of view. For 50 years you called yourself as Russia’s best friends and then as usual at the first opportunity you have stroke us from behind. Third time in one century. So now tell your fairy tales to someone else. Stories that Russia seeked for your territories may persuade someone else outside Russia. As well as that you betrayed us because Serbs had not signed a treaty … If the Yankees love you more be their satellite.

We don’t mind cause soon after Plevna Bulgaria has become a Trojan Horse in the Orthodox World and this is the truth we all have to live with. Though there used to be a big gap between common Bulgarians and the elites it made little difference for us cause instead of fighting us directly you killed our allies in Yugoslavia. So you won’t wash out your face with the comments you leave here. And of course in this forum you are the first person trying to justify fighting on the fascist’s side. Neither the Croats nor the Albanians has fallen so low.

Bulgaria has built more monuments to express thankfulness to the Russianas than anyone. But the fact remains. It wants to be a European, not a Eurasioan country, the same as Poland, Hungary etc. And to be viewed as such by both Russia and Turkey. This is neither anti-Russian, nor ant-Turkish. Indeed the side effect of Bulgaria and Romania joining NATO was the reconciliation between Russia and Turkey.As for the 50 years of communist rule, it was the communists who claimed to be Russia's best friends, because they knew they unlike the communists in Yugoslavia, Albania, or even Romania they would not stay in power without the Soviet support! Of course I would never justify fighting on the side of the Nazis. But the first goal of Bulgaria during the WWII was somehow to be bypassed by the war.It was not a sane policy of course. A firm allience with the British and the Turks (offered in 1941) gave a better chance to the country to escape the fry. In most territories that were annexed to Bulgaria in 1941 (Macedonia) there was an euphoric welcome. (although sending a small occupation corps to Serbia was indeed a grave mistake).
Finaly in 1991 Macedonia achieved its independence, which should trigger the reconciliation between Bulgaria and Serbia. Few Bulgarians worry about the present anti-Bulgarian sentiment in today's Maacedonia installed by dacades of fiers propaganda. All the Bulgarian soldiers who died for this country did not wish to "conquer" it, but to liberate it. As time passes people there will discover that their origins do not lie with Alexander the Great.
So today Bulgaria is willing to have the best of relations with Russia and Serbia. If only they show mutual respect.

>If Russia and Serbia want its friendship they have to offer..

Please Bulgarian. We hardly notice you're on our eastern borders. If it wasnt for all that heroin coming from your way I guarantee it we wouldnt even notice. It could be Turks for all we care. Only horrible war crimes you committed in eastern Serbia when you sided with Germans in two world wars are well remembered. Everytime you raised your head against our interests in the end you got smacked right across your face. So your attitude toward us is completely irrelevant. You love us, hate us, we don't care. You're not one of countries that matter in the least to us or I guess to anyone else.

So keep your nose clean and out of other people's business and keep it down and worry about your problems. Like that your average salaries are lower than in Serbia. And if you went through what we went through in the last 20 years I guarantee it you would not exist today let alone have any salary.

Живели.

Tabalija,

Like it or not, Bulgaria achieved most of its national goals although it took more than a 100 years, overcoming enormose setbacks, while Serbia (rewarded so many times) finaly failed dismally. So arrogance is not a good attitude towards a country that is bigger and wealthier than yours whereas thanks to your friend only recently was much poorerand and before your recent escapades - much smaller. As for who committed more crimes Bulgarians against Serbs or vice versa (my grand mother was a refugee from Skopje during the Serb rule) it is a topic that is not going to give any pluses to the Serbs. If you forget about Grasanins attempt to push down the Morava-Vardar valley, which after Kosovo's independence you are not going to be able to do anyway, you may get a strong ally in regards your interests in Montenegro, Bosnia etc.. But as I see you are not interested. It is fine with us too.

"For me personally Bulgaria is a synonym of treason and unthankfulness."

Thankful for what, for Stalin?
(miri, 3 January 2010 02:12)
==================

When Albanians come out here defending you, you know ou're wrong.

The lands that Serbs have stolen from Bulgaria, and the treatment of Bulgarians in Serbia is worse than medieval slavery even to this present day. Bulgaria should change its policy towards Serbia to open hostility until crimes against Bulgarians are recognized and put in Serbian history books.

A single apology to all Bulgarians in Serbia and Vardarska Banovina would be a start.

"However, one needs to understand that the existing position on recognizing the independence of any country is very difficult to change," said Dimitrov.
===================

As difficult as it was to recognise it? A stroke of a pen.

Difficult but doable.

nik, have you already demolished all of those monuments?

Good point Mircea,

The relations between Bulgaria and Romania and Bulgaria and Greece are a good example of how former enemies could turn into good partners. Serbia wil follow suit, the soomer the better. And not only with the ignored Bulgaria, but with its "archenemies" the Croats and the Albanians. So we could tell you: "welcome in the 21 century"

nik, have you already demolished all of those monuments?

Not a single one has or will be demolished (even the Soviet ones). The main cathedral in Sofia still bears the name Alexander Nevski. Today, by the way is 132 year of liberation of Sofia by general Gurko and flowers were laid! But we can not be "gratful" for the 1944 invasion, that took place AFTER Bulgaria declared war on nazi Germany! It was done with the single purpose of imposing a communist regime.

'Therefore following the healthy logic the countries who recognized are to be sued internationally and not the people who expressed their will.'

Where are you going to sue them? No country can be sued against its will in a contentious case at the ICJ. And even if they changed the rules so they could be, the Security Council (US, UK, or France) can veto a decision of the ICJ, even one pertaining to itself.

As for getting another vote from the General Assembly for another advisory opinion, you would be asking states to vote for a ruling that would potentially preclude the use of one of each country's sovereign rights. Good luck with that.

Treason against whom? Bulgaria has not committed treason as far as I'm aware.
(Ian, UK, 2 January 2010 16:59)

This is a difficult question. After the first Balkan war Bulgaria was regarded as Russia's "extended hand". To restrict Russia - in their "infinite wisdom" the "Big Wise West ™" did chop out some core parts of Bulgaria (did you know, Ohrid was Bulgaria's capital a while ago?) and that made Bulgarians mad like hell (I wonder, why).

And since - Bulgaria's some very basic aspirations are to recover the lost parts. Even while making some most dumb decisions in their history.

Hence, if there wouldn't be the Kosovo-problem, there would be a Bulgaria-"Macedonia" - Greece problem. But wait, there is some.

Did Bulgaria betray Russia or Serbia? For sure, they did. Who is at the core of the problem? UK politics of late 19th/early 20th century, of course.

Here you go, with the answer I am sure you would not like at all, but it is true.

Perhaps South Stream will convince Bulgaria to revoke recognition of Kosovo but recognise SO and Ab? Lets see how well Russia plays its cards.
(Zoran, 3 January 2010 00:49)

I'm not sure its meant to work that way Zorane. Serbia got pummeled in 99 by the US and their lackeys in order to humiliate Russia and edge closer to Russia's periphery. Russia by defending SO in 08 was merely giving the US a back-hander for 99 and Shakashvilli's lunacy. The current status quo suits RUssia because it doesn't cost her as much as it costs US/NATO to maintain the "Kosova" stillborn organism. Russia has and will back Serbia to the extreme but they can't defend Kosovo more than Belgrade currently is which is not very much. Georgia is much more important to the US than that thing they call "Kosova".

Ian

«Also remember that the USSR installed a Soviet regime in Bulgaria and thus remained a Satellite state until 1989, which was a very dark period for Bulgarians.»

Thank you for the joke ! But you must be aware of what has happened on September 9 of 1944 when local communists seized power. Also such countries like Bulgaria have to be someone’s satellites. Bulgaria proves it every day. Unfortunately states under 30-40 millions of population cannot enjoy independence in the meaning of the word. If you know such a state in Europe please let me know. Also the economical situation here has worsened much after the change of the patrons. The Bulgarians are still at a loss. They have to chose between their Turkish blood , their Orthodox Church , their Gabsburg Tsars , and their historical debt before Russia.

Cheers !

To our Bulgarian 'friends':

You always historically have chosen the wrong side, and you have done so again. You have never ever been Serbia's friend, and have always been to one imperialist or another. This you have in common with your albanian buddies. Serbia will not forget your recognition of the fake, illegal, and immoral 'state' of Kosovo.
The land you lost to Serbia in 1919 at the Treaty of Versailles is what you deserved after such treasonous behaviour.
Serbia, along with Republika Srpska, is quite a large and powerful country, and Montenegro will eventually join Serbia again, give it some time to wake up.
Rote -thanks for your excellent posts.
Cheers!!

nik, don't try to over write the history.
The Red Army entered BG to fight German troops stationed there. As simple as that!
(Russian,

ALL the German troops lest Bulgaria in the early days of September 1944.
The Soviet army marched in Bulgaria on 8th of September 1944, hours after the new democratic government set on the 2-nd of September declared a war on Germany. There was no fighting in Bulgaria, not a single Soviet soldier was killed. What happened was that few hours AFTER the Soviet army crossed the border, a coup d'etat took part in Sofia. and a government with communists in it was declared. During the next few days the communist commited countless crimes as they took over the local power all over the country. thousands of supposed "fashists" or "enamies of the people" were killed. THe Soviet troops did not participate in those crimes. BUT their presens paralized all the anti communists, most of them pro-Britis or pro Americam, while the communist felt they could do whatever they pleased with full impunity!

Bulgaria's stance will depend on how much money USA pumps into it.

The lands that Serbs have stolen from Bulgaria, and the treatment of Bulgarians in Serbia is worse than medieval slavery even to this present day. Bulgaria should change its policy towards Serbia to open hostility until crimes against Bulgarians are recognized and put in Serbian history books.

A single apology to all Bulgarians in Serbia and Vardarska Banovina would be a start.
(Banat Bulgarian, 4 January 2010 22:43)
================

Can you please provide us with some examles of this slavery and horrid treatment Bulgarians are getting in Serbia?

This is a very serious accusation which warrants some examples and evidence to be offered.

nik, don't try to over write the history.
The Red Army entered BG to fight German troops stationed there. As simple as that!

nik, nope.
The Red Army entered BG on Sep.5th, BG government declared war with Germany on Sep. 9th.
The communists, by the way, played significant role in resistanse movement and were quite popular to gain power without RA support.