U.S. healthcare reform heads for Senate vote

"Yes by us it grows. Are you envious?
(Joe, 24 December 2009 14:51) "

I don't envy the proverbial ostrich with its head stuck in the sand.

"The reform will be expensive and is the biggest in the US system since 1965 when Medicare for the elderly was created."

Americans must think money grow on trees. http://www.federalbudget.com/

The reform will be expensive and is the biggest in the US system since 1965 when Medicare for the elderly was created."

Americans must think money grow on trees. [link]/
(lowe, 24 December 2009 13:55)

They grow in the printing machines.Bernake & Geitner are putting alot of overtime recently.

This printing exercise has a new posh name.They call it
"quantative Easing".

This is a good day for the working classes in the US and for Healthcare in General. According to the World Health Organisation, the US has the 34th best Healthcare service in the World, however isn't the US meant to be the most advanced country in the World? Obviously not. Currently healthcare in the US is only good if you can afford it. Here in the UK, healthcare is a basic human right, but Americans would rather pay twice as much for a worse service just because they think nationalised healthcare is "communist". I'm glad the healthcare reform bill has been passed in the US senate, the people deserve it as it should be a basic human right.

Ian,

There isn't a lot to be proud about being British these days. However, despite what the american's think, the NHS is excellent and second to none. Sure it has flaws, waiting lists at time but it still provides universal healthcare of a good standard to everyone. It is still involved in pioneering healthcare. I don't see why someone with money should get treatment before someone without money - I just don't get that mentality. And I am surprised at how these Serb and Albanian expats slip straight into the American mindset so quickly - must be something to do with liking basketball.

I'm not trying to offend American's but rather pointing out some significant differences.

Mister says, "Only an American would equate upward mobility with being in those circles"

This Joe is not a good example of "an American".
His boastfulness and arrogance are his own personal traits and not reflective of all Americans.

"Obviously you don't know anything about the American system. There is no "show me how much money you have" when you arrive in a hospital. You just show your insurance card.
For someone, who belongs in a country with sharply different social classes with limited upward mobility this is hard to understand. In France in aristocratic circles I got the chance to meet English aristocrats. I was shocked to hear how they looked down on their "ordinary" people. I think your country has a lot to catch up in social transformation.
(Joe, 25 December 2009 16:42)"

Good god. Is black white? You pay, the more you pay the more cover you get. People who cannot pay do not get the same treatment. Yes?

As for the "English" aristocrats I agree but quite frankly I couldn't care less about them. Only an American would equate upward mobility with being in those circles. In other ways, what is the bar to upward mobility?

Since when is healthcare a basic human right? A right given by who, the State? And what is the State? Is it not the representative of the people? Well, in the instance of this Obamacare bill, the majority of the people do not want it. Unlike Europe, most Americans prefer to take care of themselves, and not have the State (government) dictate what they can and cannot do on a daily basis. Where does it stop with what the State can order you to do?

"I don't see why someone with money should get treatement before someone without money".
Mister

Obviously you don't know anything about the American system. There is no "show me how much money you have" when you arrive in a hospital. You just show your insurance card.
For someone, who belongs in a country with sharply different social classes with limited upward mobility this is hard to understand. In France in aristocratic circles I got the chance to meet English aristocrats. I was shocked to hear how they looked down on their "ordinary" people. I think your country has a lot to catch up in social transformation.

Americans must think money grow on trees.
lowe

Yes by us it grows. Are you envious?

Here in the UK, healthcare is a basic human right, but Americans would rather pay twice as much for a worse service just because they think nationalised healthcare is "communist". (Ian, UK, 24 December 2009 15:05)

Ian,
Healthcare a basic human right not only in the UK but all over Europe. You have the 'right' but the quality stinks. I would call it the "communist" quality. You have this long waiting lists....sometimes months in the UK. Because of it many people fly to other cheap countries in Europe and Asea and pay from their own pocket.
In Canada, which also has the European socialist system the waiting for services and the quality is not the same as in the good old USA. I don't even go in detail how catastrophic it is in Eastern Europe, in Hungary and in neighboring countries. Incredibly poor service and in reality not free: doctors and nurses all expect so-called "appreciation money".
As for the USA I know the "best quality people can get" through the illness of my wife. In other countries she would not be alive anymore. Here there was never any waiting list. If case of any doubt she went through additional tests, got a fantestic service. Yes it is not cheap but quality does not come cheap.
As for the new health care here all signs point to direction "European type service with poor quality".

This is a good day for the working classes in the US and for Healthcare in General. According to the World Health Organisation, the US has the 34th best Healthcare service in the World, however isn't the US meant to be the most advanced country in the World? Obviously not. Currently healthcare in the US is only good if you can afford it. Here in the UK, healthcare is a basic human right, but Americans would rather pay twice as much for a worse service just because they think nationalised healthcare is "communist". I'm glad the healthcare reform bill has been passed in the US senate, the people deserve it as it should be a basic human right.
(Ian, UK, 24 December 2009 15:05)
Some of what you say is correct. People do not want a socialist type of healthcare mainly because they associate it with communism and also the horror stories spread of people in Europe having to wait 4 weeks for a heart surgery.
It is a myth however that people do not have basic healthcare in this country. In order to receive Medicare funding from the government, no hospital may turn a patient away due to inability to pay.
These patients receive exactly the same treatment and if they cannot pay the hospital must absorb the loss. That is why healthcare in America is so expensive, part of what you pay goes to cover the indigent.
However, the healthcare plan or any healthcare plan proposed will not work without first having tort reform (Malpractice lawsuits).

Mister,
You definitely show total ignorance of our system. Within a company for a given health coverage everybody pays the same amount!!!
As for the very limited upward mobility it means that if somebody in England is part of the working class he has very limited chances to break out and move up the social ladder because the barriers to prevent him are just too many. Not in the USA.

Roger7,
This has nothing to do with boastfulness. I just stated where I experienced it. You hardly do it at McDonalds (nothing against big Mc).
Otherwise you are absolutely right. I am not the average American, even though I am not even first generation.

“Mister, 
You definitely show total ignorance of our system. Within a company for a given health coverage everybody pays the same amount!!! 
As for the very limited upward mobility it means that if somebody in England is part of the working class he has very limited chances to break out and move up the social ladder because the barriers to prevent him are just too many. Not in the USA.
(Joe, 25 December 2009 20:36)”

Tell me this Joe, are there different types of health insurance? Meaning you can pay more to get more? If you cannot pay you only get very limited life saving treatment? I don’t understand how that can be good for the richest nation in the world. Why do you have a difficulty accepting that is my opinion? And I believe my opinion is shared with the majority in my country.

What this has to do with your hobnobbing with guillotine dodgers and arrogant English aristocrats I don’t know. If you want to talk about ignorance then I suggest that your comments about social barriers in the UK are quite simply staggering. Maybe you should look at the social and economic class changes in recent history – our problem is that our working class has had a massive shift to middle class leaving a smaller under class. That under class has very little opportunity like in the US and it is a disgrace that we allow that to happen.

There are many great things about America and at one time in history your comments would be valid. I dare say a little of it remains. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a difference in general attitudes on our side of the pond and it doesn’t mean that America is always right. Universal health care and the death penalty are the ones I struggle with. Especially when the US puts itself out as the beacon of morality and freedom.

Americans must think money grow on trees.
lowe

Yes by us it grows. Are you envious?

Here in the UK, healthcare is a basic human right, but Americans would rather pay twice as much for a worse service just because they think nationalised healthcare is "communist". (Ian, UK, 24 December 2009 15:05)

Ian,
Healthcare a basic human right not only in the UK but all over Europe. You have the 'right' but the quality stinks. I would call it the "communist" quality. You have this long waiting lists....sometimes months in the UK. Because of it many people fly to other cheap countries in Europe and Asea and pay from their own pocket.
In Canada, which also has the European socialist system the waiting for services and the quality is not the same as in the good old USA. I don't even go in detail how catastrophic it is in Eastern Europe, in Hungary and in neighboring countries. Incredibly poor service and in reality not free: doctors and nurses all expect so-called "appreciation money".
As for the USA I know the "best quality people can get" through the illness of my wife. In other countries she would not be alive anymore. Here there was never any waiting list. If case of any doubt she went through additional tests, got a fantestic service. Yes it is not cheap but quality does not come cheap.
As for the new health care here all signs point to direction "European type service with poor quality".

Since when is healthcare a basic human right? A right given by who, the State? And what is the State? Is it not the representative of the people? Well, in the instance of this Obamacare bill, the majority of the people do not want it. Unlike Europe, most Americans prefer to take care of themselves, and not have the State (government) dictate what they can and cannot do on a daily basis. Where does it stop with what the State can order you to do?

"I don't see why someone with money should get treatement before someone without money".
Mister

Obviously you don't know anything about the American system. There is no "show me how much money you have" when you arrive in a hospital. You just show your insurance card.
For someone, who belongs in a country with sharply different social classes with limited upward mobility this is hard to understand. In France in aristocratic circles I got the chance to meet English aristocrats. I was shocked to hear how they looked down on their "ordinary" people. I think your country has a lot to catch up in social transformation.

Mister,
You definitely show total ignorance of our system. Within a company for a given health coverage everybody pays the same amount!!!
As for the very limited upward mobility it means that if somebody in England is part of the working class he has very limited chances to break out and move up the social ladder because the barriers to prevent him are just too many. Not in the USA.

This is a good day for the working classes in the US and for Healthcare in General. According to the World Health Organisation, the US has the 34th best Healthcare service in the World, however isn't the US meant to be the most advanced country in the World? Obviously not. Currently healthcare in the US is only good if you can afford it. Here in the UK, healthcare is a basic human right, but Americans would rather pay twice as much for a worse service just because they think nationalised healthcare is "communist". I'm glad the healthcare reform bill has been passed in the US senate, the people deserve it as it should be a basic human right.

This is a good day for the working classes in the US and for Healthcare in General. According to the World Health Organisation, the US has the 34th best Healthcare service in the World, however isn't the US meant to be the most advanced country in the World? Obviously not. Currently healthcare in the US is only good if you can afford it. Here in the UK, healthcare is a basic human right, but Americans would rather pay twice as much for a worse service just because they think nationalised healthcare is "communist". I'm glad the healthcare reform bill has been passed in the US senate, the people deserve it as it should be a basic human right.
(Ian, UK, 24 December 2009 15:05)
Some of what you say is correct. People do not want a socialist type of healthcare mainly because they associate it with communism and also the horror stories spread of people in Europe having to wait 4 weeks for a heart surgery.
It is a myth however that people do not have basic healthcare in this country. In order to receive Medicare funding from the government, no hospital may turn a patient away due to inability to pay.
These patients receive exactly the same treatment and if they cannot pay the hospital must absorb the loss. That is why healthcare in America is so expensive, part of what you pay goes to cover the indigent.
However, the healthcare plan or any healthcare plan proposed will not work without first having tort reform (Malpractice lawsuits).

Roger7,
This has nothing to do with boastfulness. I just stated where I experienced it. You hardly do it at McDonalds (nothing against big Mc).
Otherwise you are absolutely right. I am not the average American, even though I am not even first generation.

"The reform will be expensive and is the biggest in the US system since 1965 when Medicare for the elderly was created."

Americans must think money grow on trees. http://www.federalbudget.com/

"Yes by us it grows. Are you envious?
(Joe, 24 December 2009 14:51) "

I don't envy the proverbial ostrich with its head stuck in the sand.

The reform will be expensive and is the biggest in the US system since 1965 when Medicare for the elderly was created."

Americans must think money grow on trees. [link]/
(lowe, 24 December 2009 13:55)

They grow in the printing machines.Bernake & Geitner are putting alot of overtime recently.

This printing exercise has a new posh name.They call it
"quantative Easing".

Ian,

There isn't a lot to be proud about being British these days. However, despite what the american's think, the NHS is excellent and second to none. Sure it has flaws, waiting lists at time but it still provides universal healthcare of a good standard to everyone. It is still involved in pioneering healthcare. I don't see why someone with money should get treatment before someone without money - I just don't get that mentality. And I am surprised at how these Serb and Albanian expats slip straight into the American mindset so quickly - must be something to do with liking basketball.

I'm not trying to offend American's but rather pointing out some significant differences.

"Obviously you don't know anything about the American system. There is no "show me how much money you have" when you arrive in a hospital. You just show your insurance card.
For someone, who belongs in a country with sharply different social classes with limited upward mobility this is hard to understand. In France in aristocratic circles I got the chance to meet English aristocrats. I was shocked to hear how they looked down on their "ordinary" people. I think your country has a lot to catch up in social transformation.
(Joe, 25 December 2009 16:42)"

Good god. Is black white? You pay, the more you pay the more cover you get. People who cannot pay do not get the same treatment. Yes?

As for the "English" aristocrats I agree but quite frankly I couldn't care less about them. Only an American would equate upward mobility with being in those circles. In other ways, what is the bar to upward mobility?

Mister says, "Only an American would equate upward mobility with being in those circles"

This Joe is not a good example of "an American".
His boastfulness and arrogance are his own personal traits and not reflective of all Americans.

“Mister, 
You definitely show total ignorance of our system. Within a company for a given health coverage everybody pays the same amount!!! 
As for the very limited upward mobility it means that if somebody in England is part of the working class he has very limited chances to break out and move up the social ladder because the barriers to prevent him are just too many. Not in the USA.
(Joe, 25 December 2009 20:36)”

Tell me this Joe, are there different types of health insurance? Meaning you can pay more to get more? If you cannot pay you only get very limited life saving treatment? I don’t understand how that can be good for the richest nation in the world. Why do you have a difficulty accepting that is my opinion? And I believe my opinion is shared with the majority in my country.

What this has to do with your hobnobbing with guillotine dodgers and arrogant English aristocrats I don’t know. If you want to talk about ignorance then I suggest that your comments about social barriers in the UK are quite simply staggering. Maybe you should look at the social and economic class changes in recent history – our problem is that our working class has had a massive shift to middle class leaving a smaller under class. That under class has very little opportunity like in the US and it is a disgrace that we allow that to happen.

There are many great things about America and at one time in history your comments would be valid. I dare say a little of it remains. That doesn’t mean that there isn’t a difference in general attitudes on our side of the pond and it doesn’t mean that America is always right. Universal health care and the death penalty are the ones I struggle with. Especially when the US puts itself out as the beacon of morality and freedom.