Bosnian Croats talk "federal entity"

"everybody who is against a Croat federal entity is in fact against Bosnia-Herzegovina,” the HKDU president pointed out."

Ha ha ha! What a bunch of hypocrites the croats are. Where is Mesic now? Get rid of RS but create a Republic for Croats in Bosnia. You made a deal with the devil now accept it and stop whining. Let's see what roberto from frisco and all the albanian trolls have to say about this.
Thank the illegal declaration of Kosovo independence for this final break up of Bosnia.

It looks like this Croat-Muslim marriage, which was forced by Holbrooke, is falling apart.
Let them fight.

Mesic has already informed the Croats of BiH that their capital is Sarajevo.

The key to any changes lies with Serbians so unless you believe Serbians should have their area in Croatia i.e. Krajina, you will not get an area in BiH.

Thank you.

Actually I think a Croatian entity is a good thing. More power to the regions. And only do together what you want to do together.

Reform Bosnia now! More power to the regions!

we republica srpska should have independence as soon as possible, and for mesic krajina s Serbian lands and should be taken to court and all Serbs to return there was over 750,000 Serbs in their land in krajina and now about 300,000 so lets start with full autonomy, and the Serbs should speak about this now and all properties to be returned to the Serbs in krajina, and as for a state in Bosnia for the croats well i dont know because their population dropped to 499,000 and the bosnianks are over 2 million and Serbs are 1,700,000 . so i hope the Serbs speak out about krajina a soon as possible because it is Serbian lands and was not considered yugoslavia so they should win this legal fight with out any problems and all Serbs to return with no harassment's.

"Where is Mesic now?" (MikeC)

-- You said it. Didn't I write a few days ago that if given the opportunity the B Croats would form their own entity centered around Mostar or, gulp, Medju Gora? It will be interesting to see what Mesic says about this, but in terms of creating a separate federal entity like RS, I think all of us who support the continued existence of RS should offer unequivocal support for a hypothetical RH. I see no reason why it shouldn't happen since it has no bearing on RS. Have an RS-RH-RB(?) confederation, and if the ICJ acknowledges that secession doesn't violate international law, RS and RH can go their natural ways as well.

"Many Moslems left Bosnia for better lives in the West, where they were welcomed with open arms. The Bosnian Serbs are not welcome in the West" (Michael Thomas)

-- I really don't think the "West" is that able to discern between a Hodza and a Hajduk. To the average Joe 6-pack, they're all "Eastern Europeans" with strange names that lack vowels.

As to Tom’s reference to Bosnia’s population, it is very doubtful that the Moslems outnumber the Bosnian Serbs. Many Moslems left Bosnia for better lives in the West, where they were welcomed with open arms. The Bosnian Serbs are not welcome in the West and their numbers have been swollen by 200,000 krajina Serbs. The Moslems don’t want this fact know and have been obstructing a new Bosnian census unless the question of ethnicity is removed.

Finally, the beginning of the end for Bosnia. Another slap to the Bosniaks by Croat friends, clearly paves the way for Serbian independence and unification with Serbia proper.

We all knew this would happen. The Croats in B-H are the most hardened nationalists of all the Croats. Being in bed with the Muslims has been like waiting to die on death row. I think they are envious of how well RS has been doing without being chained to the corrupt leadership in Sarajevo and the bureaucracy of the internationals. I agree - if this were to happen, then Krajina must return to Serbia!

Tom, I wonder how many of those 499,000 will remain once Croatia joins the EU? The clock is ticking fast.

Ron, I agree on the condition an entity is created for Serbians in Krajina.

Back in the 90s, negotiations for Croatia and Bosnia were tied and we need to ensure they remain that way.

A fair agreement regarding all players is in everyone's interest. Croatia has some important decisions to make and Mesic looks a bit worried.

A Croat Federal Entity is the only fair solution and rightly so a minimum requirement.

finally the Croats have woken up, I give thumbs up to a Bosnian Croat entity that hopefully will enlighten Europe that BiH isn't a working "tripartite" state. All that will be left is the Boºnak Paºalığı, which i hope the Bosniaks cherish and put all their energy into.

It get's me very angry how the Croat's in BiH are treated. If it was not for Operation Storm and then Operation Mistral then more then half of BiH would be part of Serbia today. However, even though Croatian's destroyed Serbia's superior millitary position in BiH so BiH could exist as an independant state the Bosnian's give us Croat's no rights. I hope there is a recreation of Herceg Bosna which in due time will eventually succeed from the Islamic dominated state.

As for this so called "Krajina". Before the war begun the area which was claimed to be part of "Kranija" was in fact majority Croatian. The only places that had a majority Serb population were useless villages with populations of only 500 to 1000. Everywhere else the Serb population was at most 30 or 35 per cent of the town/village. Croatia will never give any of its land to foreign people. And if anyone is going to respond to me buy saying "we Serb's were there when the Ottomans blah blah blah..." or "in the census of blah blah blah..." I am not going to respond because that area was always and will always be Croatian. You Serbs should be grateful that Croatia was pressured by the USA to stop our military offensive in BiH or else not only would have you lost control of "Krajina" but also Republika Srbska would not even exsist today and Banja Luka would be part of Croatia today.

This takes the cake - first they get the coast due to Tito - not a problem as we all enjoy it.

Then, they are fighting with an EU country, Slovenia for "rights".

Now they want a piece of Bosnia too?

"whatever".....now I've heard it all.

Mesic never has and never will have any influence to us Croats in Hercegovina. We will breakaway it was always our plan. We have the same right as the Serbs do to form our own government. Why should all our hard earned tax payers money end up in someones pocket in Sarajevo?
For the record there have been a number of readers on this site calling for the return of Krajina, please listen you can't expect to take Posavina and cleanse it of Croats where there was a majority of Croats in 1991 and still expect to have krajina. Before you mention Posavina being sold out by Tudjman, Krajina was sold out by Slobo, the point to all this is when the Serbs hand over our Posavina we will gladly return the Krajina region. It's that simple.

This is a step in the right direction.

4 entities should make up Bosnia-Hercegovina. Republika Srpska, Herceg Bosna, Bosniak entity and a Sarajevo entity. After some time the regions will begin to drift apart much like the Czech Republic and Slovkia did as well as Serbia and Montenegro.

After Herceg Bosna gets it's own entity, both RS and Herceg Bosna should adopt the Euro (perferably the Dinar for RS, but this will cause less countroversy) and both regions should begin opening up even more to their mother countries, Serbia and Croatia.

As far as Krajina is concerned, we Serbs have lost our chance at Krajina after the war in the 1990's. Now most of that region is almost completly Croat. Serbs should leave Croatia as there is no future in it for them. All Serbs should move to Serbia or to Republika Srpska and strengthen our stronghold there.

Oh Antun, we Serbs are so grateful that the Croats stopped from wreaking havoc on us. Thank you so much. We will never forget it.
This guy actually thinks that the Croats are a force to be recon with! Ha, Ha. You see this guy tell us that the mighty Croat forces defeated the Serbs, but I can’t recall which battle we Serbs lost against you Croats – it must be in a parallel universe.
Firstly, Operation Storm only occurred after it was agreed that Serbs forces would leave Krajina and not before and the only people left were the defenseless, so your mighty Croat army killed old men and women. Secondly, you’re mighty Bosniak/Croat forces only took what was agreed and nothing else – not a millimeter more. It is obvious that you are illiterate because Serbs hold 50% of Bosnia.
Your Croats stabbed the Bosniaks in the back during the war and that’s the reason you are treated like garbage. Your incompetent army thought that they would attack the Bosniaks when they were at their weakest and then ended up being thrashed. In fact, if the Serbs did not allow your beloved Croats civilians to escape over their territory, you would have had 20,000 less Croats today – you see that’s our weakness, we take pity on the helpless.
You’re being personal, so I will too. We Serbs are going to watch you Croats being driven from Bosnia and laugh while it’s being done and you guys cannot do a thing about it.
The issue of territory and borders are not finished with Serbia and that includes Krajina. Croatia will never be allowed in the EU until this has been resolved. Remember these words they are not just idle statements.
“You Serbs should be grateful that Croatia was pressured by the USA to stop our military offensive in BiH or else not only would have you lost control of "Krajina" but also Republika Srbska would not even exsist today and Banja Luka would be part of Croatia today.”
This is the best part. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

Fact is Croats do not have equal rights in Bosnia even though without the Croats the Bosniak Muslims would have been liquidated. There is no gratitude and there is no respect. It cannot continue to function that way and it shouldn't be the Croats who are always giving. Bosnia should not be divided in to a Serb entity which rewards the aggressor or a Muslim-Croat entity where not all people are treated equally. The country should be united and not along ethnic lines. If that is truly impossible even after serious economic and political improvements, then Bosnia cannot exist on it's own and it should return to Croatia which historically it was part of and ruled autonomously by Croatian Kings for centuries before the turkish ottoman invasion. Splitting it out in to 3 would only give a small part of it's righful ancestral land back to Croatia, all of it should be returned if it can't function as an independent country. That would be the best choice with considering Croatia's membership in NATO and EU candidacy, Bosnia would get the fast track and no one can care for Bosnia more than the Croats who have always loved her. All people could live there equally under the Croatian constitution or a new Bosnian constitution that everyone agrees to. This makes the most sense to me and Hrvatska-Bosna basically becomes equal in size to Serbia which will act as a balance of power in the region although territory under the EU with open borders isn't the measure of power that it might have been in the old days.

We know HB that this was your plan all along.
What bothers me is that you didn't clearly say it in 1992.
You thought to vote for Bosnia and to join Muslims to make some gains on Serb expense.
I don't think that you have a same right as Serbs to ask for anything. We clearly said that we are in favor of independence of RS or Bosnia with autonomies.
Croat people voted for unified Bosnia of all citizens.
For me, RS needs autonomy or independence, and Croats can enjoy being citizens of Bosnia. Federation, this time.

Bosnia and Croatia Kings:

Historically, B & H was never ruled by "Croatian Kings" but by the Hungarian Ban's who were under the Austro-Hungarian empire. Croatia did have it's own Sabor but never rules these areas and in fact were under the director of those Hungarian Ban's. In fact, Croatia proper (Zagreb-Slavonija) were under the leadership of Hungary.

Noted leaders included King Tvrtko who was crowned King of Serbia & Bosnia/Herzegovina, Ban Kulin and the Kotromanovici dyanasty.

Croatia is in direct contradiciton to the dayton accords in declaring a Croat entity and if so, RS has ever right to succede from the ill fated mini-Jugoslavija.

Agreed with HB, there must be far more cooperation between Serbs and Croats in Bosna. The "EU" treats us the same,and its not good. Far as I am concerned Posavina/Krajina could be a good start, not even with border changes, but with something, who knows?

And rightfully so.
Same way as the rest of Yugoslavia was a burden on Croatia and Slovenia, the same is now with this joke Bosnian Federation.

I am all for international law, but if two constituent peoples want nothing to do with a country and are the majority, I say let them go their separate ways.

“Firstly, Operation Storm only occurred after it was agreed that Serbs forces would leave Krajina and not before and the only people left were the defenceless, so your mighty Croat army killed old men and women.(sj, 10 December 2009 13:00)” Why were there over 500 to 700 Serbian MILITARY casualties. If Serb forces agreed to pull out then there would not have been any military casualty. Hence Serb forces did not “withdraw” from the area of land which only Serbs call “Krajina.”

Yes, there were individuals who refused to leave and they were armed, but the main army, which means artillery units, infantry and air had all left the Krajina region. In fact I recall the General that Milosevic sent to organize the withdrawal.
You will find that vast majority of those 500/700 killed were locals that were armed and not the army. The rest were old men and women that the Croats murdered in their Operation Storm. Even the US who was the main trainer for the Croats distanced itself after what happened.

Mostar to be their capital? Are you kidding me? doing that is like your asking for fights everyday. Mostar has always had fights with bosnian muslims and bosnian croats. VELEZ and ZRINSKI. Mostar is one of the oldest turkish cities in Bosnia there is no way i or our people would let that happen. I will personally take action so that this does not happen.

A Croat Federal Entity is the only fair solution and rightly so a minimum requirement.

Mesic never has and never will have any influence to us Croats in Hercegovina. We will breakaway it was always our plan. We have the same right as the Serbs do to form our own government. Why should all our hard earned tax payers money end up in someones pocket in Sarajevo?
For the record there have been a number of readers on this site calling for the return of Krajina, please listen you can't expect to take Posavina and cleanse it of Croats where there was a majority of Croats in 1991 and still expect to have krajina. Before you mention Posavina being sold out by Tudjman, Krajina was sold out by Slobo, the point to all this is when the Serbs hand over our Posavina we will gladly return the Krajina region. It's that simple.

we republica srpska should have independence as soon as possible, and for mesic krajina s Serbian lands and should be taken to court and all Serbs to return there was over 750,000 Serbs in their land in krajina and now about 300,000 so lets start with full autonomy, and the Serbs should speak about this now and all properties to be returned to the Serbs in krajina, and as for a state in Bosnia for the croats well i dont know because their population dropped to 499,000 and the bosnianks are over 2 million and Serbs are 1,700,000 . so i hope the Serbs speak out about krajina a soon as possible because it is Serbian lands and was not considered yugoslavia so they should win this legal fight with out any problems and all Serbs to return with no harassment's.

It get's me very angry how the Croat's in BiH are treated. If it was not for Operation Storm and then Operation Mistral then more then half of BiH would be part of Serbia today. However, even though Croatian's destroyed Serbia's superior millitary position in BiH so BiH could exist as an independant state the Bosnian's give us Croat's no rights. I hope there is a recreation of Herceg Bosna which in due time will eventually succeed from the Islamic dominated state.

As for this so called "Krajina". Before the war begun the area which was claimed to be part of "Kranija" was in fact majority Croatian. The only places that had a majority Serb population were useless villages with populations of only 500 to 1000. Everywhere else the Serb population was at most 30 or 35 per cent of the town/village. Croatia will never give any of its land to foreign people. And if anyone is going to respond to me buy saying "we Serb's were there when the Ottomans blah blah blah..." or "in the census of blah blah blah..." I am not going to respond because that area was always and will always be Croatian. You Serbs should be grateful that Croatia was pressured by the USA to stop our military offensive in BiH or else not only would have you lost control of "Krajina" but also Republika Srbska would not even exsist today and Banja Luka would be part of Croatia today.

Fact is Croats do not have equal rights in Bosnia even though without the Croats the Bosniak Muslims would have been liquidated. There is no gratitude and there is no respect. It cannot continue to function that way and it shouldn't be the Croats who are always giving. Bosnia should not be divided in to a Serb entity which rewards the aggressor or a Muslim-Croat entity where not all people are treated equally. The country should be united and not along ethnic lines. If that is truly impossible even after serious economic and political improvements, then Bosnia cannot exist on it's own and it should return to Croatia which historically it was part of and ruled autonomously by Croatian Kings for centuries before the turkish ottoman invasion. Splitting it out in to 3 would only give a small part of it's righful ancestral land back to Croatia, all of it should be returned if it can't function as an independent country. That would be the best choice with considering Croatia's membership in NATO and EU candidacy, Bosnia would get the fast track and no one can care for Bosnia more than the Croats who have always loved her. All people could live there equally under the Croatian constitution or a new Bosnian constitution that everyone agrees to. This makes the most sense to me and Hrvatska-Bosna basically becomes equal in size to Serbia which will act as a balance of power in the region although territory under the EU with open borders isn't the measure of power that it might have been in the old days.

Oh Antun, we Serbs are so grateful that the Croats stopped from wreaking havoc on us. Thank you so much. We will never forget it.
This guy actually thinks that the Croats are a force to be recon with! Ha, Ha. You see this guy tell us that the mighty Croat forces defeated the Serbs, but I can’t recall which battle we Serbs lost against you Croats – it must be in a parallel universe.
Firstly, Operation Storm only occurred after it was agreed that Serbs forces would leave Krajina and not before and the only people left were the defenseless, so your mighty Croat army killed old men and women. Secondly, you’re mighty Bosniak/Croat forces only took what was agreed and nothing else – not a millimeter more. It is obvious that you are illiterate because Serbs hold 50% of Bosnia.
Your Croats stabbed the Bosniaks in the back during the war and that’s the reason you are treated like garbage. Your incompetent army thought that they would attack the Bosniaks when they were at their weakest and then ended up being thrashed. In fact, if the Serbs did not allow your beloved Croats civilians to escape over their territory, you would have had 20,000 less Croats today – you see that’s our weakness, we take pity on the helpless.
You’re being personal, so I will too. We Serbs are going to watch you Croats being driven from Bosnia and laugh while it’s being done and you guys cannot do a thing about it.
The issue of territory and borders are not finished with Serbia and that includes Krajina. Croatia will never be allowed in the EU until this has been resolved. Remember these words they are not just idle statements.
“You Serbs should be grateful that Croatia was pressured by the USA to stop our military offensive in BiH or else not only would have you lost control of "Krajina" but also Republika Srbska would not even exsist today and Banja Luka would be part of Croatia today.”
This is the best part. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

"everybody who is against a Croat federal entity is in fact against Bosnia-Herzegovina,” the HKDU president pointed out."

Ha ha ha! What a bunch of hypocrites the croats are. Where is Mesic now? Get rid of RS but create a Republic for Croats in Bosnia. You made a deal with the devil now accept it and stop whining. Let's see what roberto from frisco and all the albanian trolls have to say about this.
Thank the illegal declaration of Kosovo independence for this final break up of Bosnia.

We all knew this would happen. The Croats in B-H are the most hardened nationalists of all the Croats. Being in bed with the Muslims has been like waiting to die on death row. I think they are envious of how well RS has been doing without being chained to the corrupt leadership in Sarajevo and the bureaucracy of the internationals. I agree - if this were to happen, then Krajina must return to Serbia!

finally the Croats have woken up, I give thumbs up to a Bosnian Croat entity that hopefully will enlighten Europe that BiH isn't a working "tripartite" state. All that will be left is the Boºnak Paºalığı, which i hope the Bosniaks cherish and put all their energy into.

Mostar to be their capital? Are you kidding me? doing that is like your asking for fights everyday. Mostar has always had fights with bosnian muslims and bosnian croats. VELEZ and ZRINSKI. Mostar is one of the oldest turkish cities in Bosnia there is no way i or our people would let that happen. I will personally take action so that this does not happen.

Mesic has already informed the Croats of BiH that their capital is Sarajevo.

The key to any changes lies with Serbians so unless you believe Serbians should have their area in Croatia i.e. Krajina, you will not get an area in BiH.

Thank you.

This takes the cake - first they get the coast due to Tito - not a problem as we all enjoy it.

Then, they are fighting with an EU country, Slovenia for "rights".

Now they want a piece of Bosnia too?

"whatever".....now I've heard it all.

We know HB that this was your plan all along.
What bothers me is that you didn't clearly say it in 1992.
You thought to vote for Bosnia and to join Muslims to make some gains on Serb expense.
I don't think that you have a same right as Serbs to ask for anything. We clearly said that we are in favor of independence of RS or Bosnia with autonomies.
Croat people voted for unified Bosnia of all citizens.
For me, RS needs autonomy or independence, and Croats can enjoy being citizens of Bosnia. Federation, this time.

Bosnia and Croatia Kings:

Historically, B & H was never ruled by "Croatian Kings" but by the Hungarian Ban's who were under the Austro-Hungarian empire. Croatia did have it's own Sabor but never rules these areas and in fact were under the director of those Hungarian Ban's. In fact, Croatia proper (Zagreb-Slavonija) were under the leadership of Hungary.

Noted leaders included King Tvrtko who was crowned King of Serbia & Bosnia/Herzegovina, Ban Kulin and the Kotromanovici dyanasty.

Croatia is in direct contradiciton to the dayton accords in declaring a Croat entity and if so, RS has ever right to succede from the ill fated mini-Jugoslavija.

It looks like this Croat-Muslim marriage, which was forced by Holbrooke, is falling apart.
Let them fight.

As to Tom’s reference to Bosnia’s population, it is very doubtful that the Moslems outnumber the Bosnian Serbs. Many Moslems left Bosnia for better lives in the West, where they were welcomed with open arms. The Bosnian Serbs are not welcome in the West and their numbers have been swollen by 200,000 krajina Serbs. The Moslems don’t want this fact know and have been obstructing a new Bosnian census unless the question of ethnicity is removed.

Finally, the beginning of the end for Bosnia. Another slap to the Bosniaks by Croat friends, clearly paves the way for Serbian independence and unification with Serbia proper.

Yes, there were individuals who refused to leave and they were armed, but the main army, which means artillery units, infantry and air had all left the Krajina region. In fact I recall the General that Milosevic sent to organize the withdrawal.
You will find that vast majority of those 500/700 killed were locals that were armed and not the army. The rest were old men and women that the Croats murdered in their Operation Storm. Even the US who was the main trainer for the Croats distanced itself after what happened.

Actually I think a Croatian entity is a good thing. More power to the regions. And only do together what you want to do together.

Reform Bosnia now! More power to the regions!

Tom, I wonder how many of those 499,000 will remain once Croatia joins the EU? The clock is ticking fast.

Ron, I agree on the condition an entity is created for Serbians in Krajina.

Back in the 90s, negotiations for Croatia and Bosnia were tied and we need to ensure they remain that way.

A fair agreement regarding all players is in everyone's interest. Croatia has some important decisions to make and Mesic looks a bit worried.

“Firstly, Operation Storm only occurred after it was agreed that Serbs forces would leave Krajina and not before and the only people left were the defenceless, so your mighty Croat army killed old men and women.(sj, 10 December 2009 13:00)” Why were there over 500 to 700 Serbian MILITARY casualties. If Serb forces agreed to pull out then there would not have been any military casualty. Hence Serb forces did not “withdraw” from the area of land which only Serbs call “Krajina.”

"Many Moslems left Bosnia for better lives in the West, where they were welcomed with open arms. The Bosnian Serbs are not welcome in the West" (Michael Thomas)

-- I really don't think the "West" is that able to discern between a Hodza and a Hajduk. To the average Joe 6-pack, they're all "Eastern Europeans" with strange names that lack vowels.

"Where is Mesic now?" (MikeC)

-- You said it. Didn't I write a few days ago that if given the opportunity the B Croats would form their own entity centered around Mostar or, gulp, Medju Gora? It will be interesting to see what Mesic says about this, but in terms of creating a separate federal entity like RS, I think all of us who support the continued existence of RS should offer unequivocal support for a hypothetical RH. I see no reason why it shouldn't happen since it has no bearing on RS. Have an RS-RH-RB(?) confederation, and if the ICJ acknowledges that secession doesn't violate international law, RS and RH can go their natural ways as well.

This is a step in the right direction.

4 entities should make up Bosnia-Hercegovina. Republika Srpska, Herceg Bosna, Bosniak entity and a Sarajevo entity. After some time the regions will begin to drift apart much like the Czech Republic and Slovkia did as well as Serbia and Montenegro.

After Herceg Bosna gets it's own entity, both RS and Herceg Bosna should adopt the Euro (perferably the Dinar for RS, but this will cause less countroversy) and both regions should begin opening up even more to their mother countries, Serbia and Croatia.

As far as Krajina is concerned, we Serbs have lost our chance at Krajina after the war in the 1990's. Now most of that region is almost completly Croat. Serbs should leave Croatia as there is no future in it for them. All Serbs should move to Serbia or to Republika Srpska and strengthen our stronghold there.

Agreed with HB, there must be far more cooperation between Serbs and Croats in Bosna. The "EU" treats us the same,and its not good. Far as I am concerned Posavina/Krajina could be a good start, not even with border changes, but with something, who knows?

And rightfully so.
Same way as the rest of Yugoslavia was a burden on Croatia and Slovenia, the same is now with this joke Bosnian Federation.

I am all for international law, but if two constituent peoples want nothing to do with a country and are the majority, I say let them go their separate ways.