Greece: New government, same position

Wrong title B92.The Greek position has been changed in the last few years by abandoning the position of a solution not including the name " macedonia" and instead accepted a compound name with geographical connotation in order to distinguish the Greek Macedonia from Bulgaria and Fyrom.

It is Fyrom and Gruevski in particular that has been entrenched in his maximalist position of using the name exclusively for his country.

The core of the issue is not the name itself but those of history,language and symbols which Gruevski wants to appropriate and connect them to its constitutional name.

A compound name for all uses is as much as Gruevski will get in any future settlement.
My advice to Gruevski and his fellow nationalists will be to go back to the drawing board,re-educate their countrymen and abandon his fixation with ancient macedonian antiquity their names and emblems.

The chances of my advice taken up by Gruevski are close to zero.The present stalemate will continue in the forseeable future until new internal forces in Fyrom change the dynamics of any future negotiations.

It is not a bizarre case at all. When a country is using a "name" as a formula for future claims on foreigh land and "imaginary" minority rights like FYROM does, then it is totally reasonable to consider this country as "non-friendly". And prevent it from entering any alliance, inculding NATO and the EU as a result. If the far-right nationalistic goverment of VMRO in FYROM decides that it trully wants friendly relations with Greece, they just have to change their (stolen) name. Greece allowed them already, to use the term "macedonia" in their name and that's a huge step already, something that the majority of Greek people strongly dissaproves. But of course Greece is not going to let them monopolize that nam,e. The real macedonias are the Greek macedonias after all - not the Slavs. Northern Macedonia or New Macedonia. Take it or stay out of every organization for ever. As simple as that.

As a previous blogger had commented... "noone has copyrights on names of countries."

You are absolutely right that noone can copyright a name of a country. However, a neighboring country, choosing to take a name of an already established province within that neighboring country, thn staking claim on their land and history and identity is in fact illegal. This is also the reason there is a UN mediated dispute. This is why there was an interim aggreement. If it were not illegal, it would have been dismissed 18+ years ago by the UN and international community.

Consider this... The USA has a state named Texas. The neighboring country of Mexico breaks up in civil war. One region now claims themselvs as the Republic of Texas. The pseudo Republic of Texas now says they are exclusively Texans and that there are no US Texans. They further add that the US State of Texas is an "occupied territory" by the US and righfully belongs to the Republic of Texas. They also talk about "reuniting" all Texans, implying that US Texans are now their own people and not Americans of the USA. They rewrite US Texan history as their own Republics history. This is whats going on. So its not the name per se that is the problem. Its the name, identity and land that the FYROMians are after.

This is really the most bezire case! Countries have fought for land, for resourses, fortraderouts, for a woman (if one believes the myth of the Trojan war or the early Irish history). On one hand there is no copy right for manes of countries. Ghana for instance was named after a pre-collonial kingdom that layed outside its present territory. On the other hand the fevour with which the Macedonians insist on kind of international recognition of the fairytale for centuries or ebem millenia there was a Macedonian people speaking a Macedonian language, in face of overwhelming evidence top the contrary is indeed patetic.

First of all, let us go back to Ancient Greece ...

FACT: Alexander the Great was GREEK and spoke GREEK as well as his Father, Philippos, and his Mother, Olympia, and their Region was MACEDONIA, also GREEK!!!!

Remember that none of these NAMES are Slavic ... but GREEK (Alexander, Philippos, Olympia, MACEDONIA)!!!!!!!!

I think I made my point.

Some think that Ancient and even Modern GREEK HISTORY can be rewritten... It cannot.

The 1800s, the 1920s and the 1940s may have been trying times for Greece, but I do not think 50+ or 70+ or even 400+ years can ever measure up to THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF G.R.E.E.C.E.'s important existence on the Planet, and certainly not because some guy called Tito "envisioned" a greater Yugo-S.L.A.V.-ia that included Greece's Macedonia!!!!!

His outrageous "plan" is still continued by our Northern neighbour... and the name dispute will continue and they will just have to find a new name for their SLAVIC IDENTITY, because MACEDONIA has been and will always b GREEK!!!!

Enough.


NATO and EU members: Is this supposed to be an Ally? (2008)

This is the Prime Minister of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia(F.Y.R.O.M), Nikola Gruevski, during an official state ceremony.

[URL=http://img225.imageshack.us/i/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg/][IMG]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/92/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img225/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg/1/][IMG]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg/1/w800.png[/IMG][/URL]
Along with the name dispute irridentist overtures such as the following from F.Y.R.O.M's cultural and governmental institutions resulted in Greece blocking F.Y.R.O.M's NATO invitation.

The image says it all ...

No further commentary necessary.

God, not this again!

This is really the most bezire case! Countries have fought for land, for resourses, fortraderouts, for a woman (if one believes the myth of the Trojan war or the early Irish history). On one hand there is no copy right for manes of countries. Ghana for instance was named after a pre-collonial kingdom that layed outside its present territory. On the other hand the fevour with which the Macedonians insist on kind of international recognition of the fairytale for centuries or ebem millenia there was a Macedonian people speaking a Macedonian language, in face of overwhelming evidence top the contrary is indeed patetic.

It is not a bizarre case at all. When a country is using a "name" as a formula for future claims on foreigh land and "imaginary" minority rights like FYROM does, then it is totally reasonable to consider this country as "non-friendly". And prevent it from entering any alliance, inculding NATO and the EU as a result. If the far-right nationalistic goverment of VMRO in FYROM decides that it trully wants friendly relations with Greece, they just have to change their (stolen) name. Greece allowed them already, to use the term "macedonia" in their name and that's a huge step already, something that the majority of Greek people strongly dissaproves. But of course Greece is not going to let them monopolize that nam,e. The real macedonias are the Greek macedonias after all - not the Slavs. Northern Macedonia or New Macedonia. Take it or stay out of every organization for ever. As simple as that.

Wrong title B92.The Greek position has been changed in the last few years by abandoning the position of a solution not including the name " macedonia" and instead accepted a compound name with geographical connotation in order to distinguish the Greek Macedonia from Bulgaria and Fyrom.

It is Fyrom and Gruevski in particular that has been entrenched in his maximalist position of using the name exclusively for his country.

The core of the issue is not the name itself but those of history,language and symbols which Gruevski wants to appropriate and connect them to its constitutional name.

A compound name for all uses is as much as Gruevski will get in any future settlement.
My advice to Gruevski and his fellow nationalists will be to go back to the drawing board,re-educate their countrymen and abandon his fixation with ancient macedonian antiquity their names and emblems.

The chances of my advice taken up by Gruevski are close to zero.The present stalemate will continue in the forseeable future until new internal forces in Fyrom change the dynamics of any future negotiations.

As a previous blogger had commented... "noone has copyrights on names of countries."

You are absolutely right that noone can copyright a name of a country. However, a neighboring country, choosing to take a name of an already established province within that neighboring country, thn staking claim on their land and history and identity is in fact illegal. This is also the reason there is a UN mediated dispute. This is why there was an interim aggreement. If it were not illegal, it would have been dismissed 18+ years ago by the UN and international community.

Consider this... The USA has a state named Texas. The neighboring country of Mexico breaks up in civil war. One region now claims themselvs as the Republic of Texas. The pseudo Republic of Texas now says they are exclusively Texans and that there are no US Texans. They further add that the US State of Texas is an "occupied territory" by the US and righfully belongs to the Republic of Texas. They also talk about "reuniting" all Texans, implying that US Texans are now their own people and not Americans of the USA. They rewrite US Texan history as their own Republics history. This is whats going on. So its not the name per se that is the problem. Its the name, identity and land that the FYROMians are after.

God, not this again!

First of all, let us go back to Ancient Greece ...

FACT: Alexander the Great was GREEK and spoke GREEK as well as his Father, Philippos, and his Mother, Olympia, and their Region was MACEDONIA, also GREEK!!!!

Remember that none of these NAMES are Slavic ... but GREEK (Alexander, Philippos, Olympia, MACEDONIA)!!!!!!!!

I think I made my point.

Some think that Ancient and even Modern GREEK HISTORY can be rewritten... It cannot.

The 1800s, the 1920s and the 1940s may have been trying times for Greece, but I do not think 50+ or 70+ or even 400+ years can ever measure up to THOUSANDS OF YEARS OF G.R.E.E.C.E.'s important existence on the Planet, and certainly not because some guy called Tito "envisioned" a greater Yugo-S.L.A.V.-ia that included Greece's Macedonia!!!!!

His outrageous "plan" is still continued by our Northern neighbour... and the name dispute will continue and they will just have to find a new name for their SLAVIC IDENTITY, because MACEDONIA has been and will always b GREEK!!!!

Enough.


NATO and EU members: Is this supposed to be an Ally? (2008)

This is the Prime Minister of the Former Yugoslav Republic of Macedonia(F.Y.R.O.M), Nikola Gruevski, during an official state ceremony.

[URL=http://img225.imageshack.us/i/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg/][IMG]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/92/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg[/IMG][/URL][URL=http://g.imageshack.us/img225/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg/1/][IMG]http://img225.imageshack.us/img225/080402saeproedriomakedomj0.jpg/1/w800.png[/IMG][/URL]
Along with the name dispute irridentist overtures such as the following from F.Y.R.O.M's cultural and governmental institutions resulted in Greece blocking F.Y.R.O.M's NATO invitation.

The image says it all ...

No further commentary necessary.