Mesić: Tadić should come to Vukovar

Berko. How exactly has Istria ever been "Croatian" for centuries when since ancient times it'smajority were Latin speakers?

It only became "Croatian" when the Italians were expelled WWII?

Incidentally there were more Italians pre-WWII then there are Croats in Istria now.

Istria was also never part of any Croatian entity until post-WWII.

Istria was fore centuries an integral part of La Serennsima, the territories ruled by Venice.

But it's only natural for Croasts to ignore this. Afterall according to Croats Marco Polo was a Croat, not an Italian.

“First and foremost, all imperial interest should be wiped clean from some minds, from those who still believe that borders can be changed. The architecture of our region has been completed,” Mesić said.
--
If you believe in what you say then you must immediately revoke recognition of Kosovo.

to mesic its a good idea for croatia to return all Serbs to their lands in krajina because its Serbian lands like istra is Slovenian and the Serbs should receive full autonomy of krajina maybe that should be spoken about if Tadic is a good president and support your Serbs not be against them as its looking lately with krajina and vojvodina it seems to me as he wants to give all lands out for some money and praise krajina is Serbian lands just like republica srpska and Montenegro and kosovo . i hope the serbs get loud about all serbs to return to krajina and have autonomy there soon as possible there should be talks about this in the courts and with the international courts because it is on paper and history that these lands are Serbian lands.

Berko,
thats what the Turks said too...it may take us 5000 years but we are coming for what is ours. It was never yours and it isn't yours now, Krajina is Serbian and all your empty words will never change that.

Interesting how ethnic cleansing in Knin, Croatia is celebrated as a national holiday- and he wants memorial monuments where Croatians were pushed out. A true political and some would say fascist response from Mr. Mesic indeed. When will the monuments go up in Krajina, and the 500k Serbs returned?

Marko,

May I remind you that Josip Broz, AKA "Tito", was Croatian and that he and his communist, who came from all Yugoslav republics, were among the architects of carving up Serbia and Serbian lands. Just because Tito was a Croat it would be silly for Serbs to blame all their misfortunes under communism to the Croats, something that the Croats like to do because Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia. I would like to remind you that because of the genocide committed by fascist Croatia and their Nazi allies Serbia could have had more people today. But under the current economical circumstances that might not have been a good idea. It is only the Albanians who keep having big families even though they know that their children cannot have a normal future unless they leave. Tadic could go to Vukovar if he also goes to Knin and start making some noise there about the ethnic cleansing of Krajina Serbs. It is so clear that Croatia still have not accepted its dark past and until that time there cannot be a normal relationship between Croatia and Serbia.

'and herceg bosna would be a lot bigger today' etc
Marko are you living in a parallel reality? Herceg Bosna does not exist, despite the efforts of Franjo and his gang with their Hercegovian lobby that is held in such contempt by most moderate Croats these days.

I've heard your strain of Croat nationalism before. Its funny you do not know how to define yourselves except in definition to Serbs. It suggests that without Serbs you wouldn't have an identity at all.

I mean Serbian controlled Croatia in the 1960's and 70's? Show me Serbian leaders of Croatia in this period.
It seems to me that if independence is a state of mind then some emerging states of the Balkans should not be given state status. True independence comes to those who are mature enough to admit their own mistakes and does not blame everything on other groups.

I don't have much of an opinion on the topic but I do know that if Mesic could get Tadic to come it would look like a triumph for Mesic and he would picture it as a triumph for Croatia. On the other hand those that hate Mesic will say that its a disgrace that Tadic was allowed to come that his hands are dripping in blood etc.

Krajina is croatia, has been for 1400 years so thats never going to happen.

kninska krajlice

Istria is hrvatska has been for centuries so thats never going to happen.

I would say 100% of croatians would have to die for this to take place.

its funny i always see serbs stating that krajina should be free for the serbs but its never going to happen.

RS has a better chance of splitting off than any chunk of croatian territory. Oh yeah my mom is from knin, is she serbian?... NOOO she is hrvatica plain and simple. That croatian flag at the top of the fortress isnt going anywhere.

Crime? Didn't croats committed crime and now they are all crocodile cry?

Marko - "mass extinction of croats at bleiburg" there was no mass extinction, just more Croat propaganda. the ones that were killed there got what they deserved for being nazi's.

"And the RS should thank there lucky stars that the croatian army wasnt allowed to enter BiH" And you should thank your lucky stars that you didn't fight the JNA - you'd have been comprehensively crushed, even with your 300,000 men at arms. You're simply no match for Serbia, never have been, never will be.

"If it wasnt for the serbs croatias population today would be well over 6 million buts its only 4.5." Can you explain that instead of just fantasizing? Interestingly, croatia probably wouldn't be independent today if the Nazi ustashe (most Croat citizens) hadn't geniocidally killed HALF of croatia's pre war Serbian population. Croatia today would most likely be 50:50 Serb:Croat.

Gossamer - It's good to know that you know your place and the pecking order in the Balkans, i.e. that Serbia is top dog.

Thats funny cuz i see the croatian flag over knin everytime i drive through there.

only reason there that many serbs in croatia and in krajina is because croats were driven and compelled to leave during the 60's and 70's in serbian controlled croatia, not to mention the mass extinction of croats at bleiburg. i say serbian controlled croatia because yugo/greater serbia was a joke for the croatian people. So you can understand that when the war started we were coming for krajina/ and eastern slavonija. And the RS should thank there lucky stars that the croatian army wasnt allowed to enter BiH or RS would look a lot different today and herceg bosna would be a lot bigger today. Also there would be no croat-muslim alliance.

If it wasnt for the serbs croatias population today would be well over 6 million buts its only 4.5. Thanks serbia for oppressing croats.

Berko get your facts correct. Serbs were never on the territory of so-called "Krajina" for 1400 years.

Serbs only arrived in "Krajina" in the 17th century as refugees from Turkish occupation of Serbia.

Therefore you have only been in Croatia for no more than the last 400 years as refugees!

Prior to that the lands were owned by Croats upon their arrival in the 7th century ... pretty much 1000 years before the arrival of Serbian refugees.

Knin was the ancient throne of the Croatian rulers ....

RE: Istria, Cattaro, Military Frontier

The Krajina or Military frontier was created and strenthened by the Austo-Hungarian leader Ferdinand
in the early 14th century. This frontier was opposed by both Hungary including Croatia which even though had its own Sabor was under the control of the Hungarian government. The frontier at this period of history included both Serbs and Croatian and other Vlach groups, but a greater Croatian population was in this region during this period.

Istria was never under Croatian rule and briefly under Austro-Hungary but predominanly under various Italian and Venetian empires.

Dubrovnik was known as Cattaro and was independant throughout it's history with strong Venetian and Italian influence.

Berko get your facts correct. Serbs were never on the territory of so-called "Krajina" for 1400 years.

Serbs only arrived in "Krajina" in the 17th century as refugees from Turkish occupation of Serbia.

Therefore you have only been in Croatia for no more than the last 400 years as refugees!

Prior to that the lands were owned by Croats upon their arrival in the 7th century ... pretty much 1000 years before the arrival of Serbian refugees.

Knin was the ancient throne of the Croatian rulers ....
(SinCity, 23 November 2009 03:36)


Knin, the ancient throne of Croatian rulers! As if Croats were in Knin since time immemorial. That entire region is littered with Roman/Italian ruins; what’s the next claim that Croatians built Dubrovnik!!!

The Austro Hungarian Empire trusted Serbs more to defend their frontiers; it say a lot about Croats.

In 2007, a small group of Croatian academics from Zagreb University arrived in Sydney, Australia and they were trying to correct the “misinterpretation or total fabrication” of history in that region.

They highlighted the exact issues you raised and were pleading with their audience that they could not support such claims because they were not true. A member of the group honestly stated that such claims are making them the laughing stock of the academic world.

Dubrovnik was known as Cattaro and was independant throughout it's history with strong Venetian and Italian influence.
(Jugoslavija, 23 November 2009 20:39)

Correction: the name of Dubrovnik was "Raguza". "Cattaro" was Kotor.
Dubrovnik's architecture resembles Venice. I like it better than Venice. Better views, less tourist-ripoffs and largely understanding what the locals do say does help a lot.

All of the current territory of Croatia is under the military protection of NATO, leaded by the United States.

Serbia is outside NATO.

End of the argument.

Krajina is croatia, has been for 1400 years so thats never going to happen.

kninska krajlice

Istria is hrvatska has been for centuries so thats never going to happen.

I would say 100% of croatians would have to die for this to take place.

its funny i always see serbs stating that krajina should be free for the serbs but its never going to happen.

RS has a better chance of splitting off than any chunk of croatian territory. Oh yeah my mom is from knin, is she serbian?... NOOO she is hrvatica plain and simple. That croatian flag at the top of the fortress isnt going anywhere.

Thats funny cuz i see the croatian flag over knin everytime i drive through there.

only reason there that many serbs in croatia and in krajina is because croats were driven and compelled to leave during the 60's and 70's in serbian controlled croatia, not to mention the mass extinction of croats at bleiburg. i say serbian controlled croatia because yugo/greater serbia was a joke for the croatian people. So you can understand that when the war started we were coming for krajina/ and eastern slavonija. And the RS should thank there lucky stars that the croatian army wasnt allowed to enter BiH or RS would look a lot different today and herceg bosna would be a lot bigger today. Also there would be no croat-muslim alliance.

If it wasnt for the serbs croatias population today would be well over 6 million buts its only 4.5. Thanks serbia for oppressing croats.

Berko get your facts correct. Serbs were never on the territory of so-called "Krajina" for 1400 years.

Serbs only arrived in "Krajina" in the 17th century as refugees from Turkish occupation of Serbia.

Therefore you have only been in Croatia for no more than the last 400 years as refugees!

Prior to that the lands were owned by Croats upon their arrival in the 7th century ... pretty much 1000 years before the arrival of Serbian refugees.

Knin was the ancient throne of the Croatian rulers ....

to mesic its a good idea for croatia to return all Serbs to their lands in krajina because its Serbian lands like istra is Slovenian and the Serbs should receive full autonomy of krajina maybe that should be spoken about if Tadic is a good president and support your Serbs not be against them as its looking lately with krajina and vojvodina it seems to me as he wants to give all lands out for some money and praise krajina is Serbian lands just like republica srpska and Montenegro and kosovo . i hope the serbs get loud about all serbs to return to krajina and have autonomy there soon as possible there should be talks about this in the courts and with the international courts because it is on paper and history that these lands are Serbian lands.

Berko. How exactly has Istria ever been "Croatian" for centuries when since ancient times it'smajority were Latin speakers?

It only became "Croatian" when the Italians were expelled WWII?

Incidentally there were more Italians pre-WWII then there are Croats in Istria now.

Istria was also never part of any Croatian entity until post-WWII.

Istria was fore centuries an integral part of La Serennsima, the territories ruled by Venice.

But it's only natural for Croasts to ignore this. Afterall according to Croats Marco Polo was a Croat, not an Italian.

All of the current territory of Croatia is under the military protection of NATO, leaded by the United States.

Serbia is outside NATO.

End of the argument.

Berko,
thats what the Turks said too...it may take us 5000 years but we are coming for what is ours. It was never yours and it isn't yours now, Krajina is Serbian and all your empty words will never change that.

Marko - "mass extinction of croats at bleiburg" there was no mass extinction, just more Croat propaganda. the ones that were killed there got what they deserved for being nazi's.

"And the RS should thank there lucky stars that the croatian army wasnt allowed to enter BiH" And you should thank your lucky stars that you didn't fight the JNA - you'd have been comprehensively crushed, even with your 300,000 men at arms. You're simply no match for Serbia, never have been, never will be.

"If it wasnt for the serbs croatias population today would be well over 6 million buts its only 4.5." Can you explain that instead of just fantasizing? Interestingly, croatia probably wouldn't be independent today if the Nazi ustashe (most Croat citizens) hadn't geniocidally killed HALF of croatia's pre war Serbian population. Croatia today would most likely be 50:50 Serb:Croat.

Gossamer - It's good to know that you know your place and the pecking order in the Balkans, i.e. that Serbia is top dog.

“First and foremost, all imperial interest should be wiped clean from some minds, from those who still believe that borders can be changed. The architecture of our region has been completed,” Mesić said.
--
If you believe in what you say then you must immediately revoke recognition of Kosovo.

Interesting how ethnic cleansing in Knin, Croatia is celebrated as a national holiday- and he wants memorial monuments where Croatians were pushed out. A true political and some would say fascist response from Mr. Mesic indeed. When will the monuments go up in Krajina, and the 500k Serbs returned?

Marko,

May I remind you that Josip Broz, AKA "Tito", was Croatian and that he and his communist, who came from all Yugoslav republics, were among the architects of carving up Serbia and Serbian lands. Just because Tito was a Croat it would be silly for Serbs to blame all their misfortunes under communism to the Croats, something that the Croats like to do because Belgrade was the capital of Yugoslavia. I would like to remind you that because of the genocide committed by fascist Croatia and their Nazi allies Serbia could have had more people today. But under the current economical circumstances that might not have been a good idea. It is only the Albanians who keep having big families even though they know that their children cannot have a normal future unless they leave. Tadic could go to Vukovar if he also goes to Knin and start making some noise there about the ethnic cleansing of Krajina Serbs. It is so clear that Croatia still have not accepted its dark past and until that time there cannot be a normal relationship between Croatia and Serbia.

'and herceg bosna would be a lot bigger today' etc
Marko are you living in a parallel reality? Herceg Bosna does not exist, despite the efforts of Franjo and his gang with their Hercegovian lobby that is held in such contempt by most moderate Croats these days.

I've heard your strain of Croat nationalism before. Its funny you do not know how to define yourselves except in definition to Serbs. It suggests that without Serbs you wouldn't have an identity at all.

I mean Serbian controlled Croatia in the 1960's and 70's? Show me Serbian leaders of Croatia in this period.
It seems to me that if independence is a state of mind then some emerging states of the Balkans should not be given state status. True independence comes to those who are mature enough to admit their own mistakes and does not blame everything on other groups.

I don't have much of an opinion on the topic but I do know that if Mesic could get Tadic to come it would look like a triumph for Mesic and he would picture it as a triumph for Croatia. On the other hand those that hate Mesic will say that its a disgrace that Tadic was allowed to come that his hands are dripping in blood etc.

Crime? Didn't croats committed crime and now they are all crocodile cry?

RE: Istria, Cattaro, Military Frontier

The Krajina or Military frontier was created and strenthened by the Austo-Hungarian leader Ferdinand
in the early 14th century. This frontier was opposed by both Hungary including Croatia which even though had its own Sabor was under the control of the Hungarian government. The frontier at this period of history included both Serbs and Croatian and other Vlach groups, but a greater Croatian population was in this region during this period.

Istria was never under Croatian rule and briefly under Austro-Hungary but predominanly under various Italian and Venetian empires.

Dubrovnik was known as Cattaro and was independant throughout it's history with strong Venetian and Italian influence.

Berko get your facts correct. Serbs were never on the territory of so-called "Krajina" for 1400 years.

Serbs only arrived in "Krajina" in the 17th century as refugees from Turkish occupation of Serbia.

Therefore you have only been in Croatia for no more than the last 400 years as refugees!

Prior to that the lands were owned by Croats upon their arrival in the 7th century ... pretty much 1000 years before the arrival of Serbian refugees.

Knin was the ancient throne of the Croatian rulers ....
(SinCity, 23 November 2009 03:36)


Knin, the ancient throne of Croatian rulers! As if Croats were in Knin since time immemorial. That entire region is littered with Roman/Italian ruins; what’s the next claim that Croatians built Dubrovnik!!!

The Austro Hungarian Empire trusted Serbs more to defend their frontiers; it say a lot about Croats.

In 2007, a small group of Croatian academics from Zagreb University arrived in Sydney, Australia and they were trying to correct the “misinterpretation or total fabrication” of history in that region.

They highlighted the exact issues you raised and were pleading with their audience that they could not support such claims because they were not true. A member of the group honestly stated that such claims are making them the laughing stock of the academic world.

Dubrovnik was known as Cattaro and was independant throughout it's history with strong Venetian and Italian influence.
(Jugoslavija, 23 November 2009 20:39)

Correction: the name of Dubrovnik was "Raguza". "Cattaro" was Kotor.
Dubrovnik's architecture resembles Venice. I like it better than Venice. Better views, less tourist-ripoffs and largely understanding what the locals do say does help a lot.