Kosovo minister on local vote controversies

Minister of Kosovo Goran Bogdanović says that the time when Belgrade was sending "directives" had passed.

AGREED, at last, wise comment


“The Albanians certainly wish to create a rift among Serbs.

DISAGREE.
ALbanians want either:
1)Serbs get united and vote altogether in Kosovo, OR ELSE
2)leave/go and vote in Serbia altogether.

Enough with Serbs.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

If you have enough,be polite and go to your beloved Albania, the place where you belong.

DISAGREE.
ALbanians want either:
1)Serbs get united and vote altogether in Kosovo, OR ELSE
2)leave/go and vote in Serbia altogether.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

1) Albanians can vote with altogether and unite with all citizens of Republic of Serbia
2) K-Serbs ARE in Serbia and vote in Republic of Serbia elections with other citizens of Republic of Serbia.

Serbs still have their own institutions. Newly elected stooges that represent an illegal government will not get Serbian support. I don't think it will be long before they get kicked out of the Serb ghettos.

Dear PRN,
Albanians are many and wear different skullcaps, (only Dibër has at least a dozen or so variations), so allow me to disagree with you on that one.
Surely the best solution for us all would be for the Serbs to vote on as many elections as there are, carry as many passports as they can, (Serbian and Kosovar), and move freely in and out of Kosova and vice versa. Kosova is free at last and currently showing tremendous courage and confidence in moving forward and establishing democratic norms.
The new republic like any other free country should keep her interference at a bare minimum and look at ways of promoting the general welfare of all inhabitants.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

If you have enough,be polite and go to your beloved Albania, the place where you belong.
(D. Popovic, 18 November 2009 12:42)

Dear D. Popovic,

BTW, MOST of today's Serbia is Albania. Serbs are ONLY temporary guests.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.

“Only five or six people voted in some polling stations, but they made it look like there had been a hundred. There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists, but less than 8,000 voted ,which is about five to six percent, including other ethnic minorities, and that cannot be regarded as a success,” the Kosovo minister pointed out.
This guy is living in past. How you can say that there are 123,456 Serbian voters (Sorry! 123,000) on voting list? Are counting the Serbian army commanders and solders in Milosevic era who were forced to “serve” in Kosovo, Serbian police and Milosevic’s Public administration personnel forced to “serve” in Kosovo, Serb’s doctors, teachers, lowers and judges from that time who were forced to “govern” the occupied Kosovo by giving them double salary?!!!
My friend, those days are over and they cannot vote for foreign country anymore. Kosovo people, Albanians, Serbs, Turks, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Roma, etc. are the ones in voting list and it is up to them to vote or not.

B92 says: Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful.
B92 should re-check its sources.
As this statement is not a quotation than it must be a B92 opinion. Hence, there goes Journalistic neutrality. Is this just a sample of democracy in Serbia? No wonder all parts break away into independent entities.

Kosovo Serbs have shown that they are mature this time and after over 10 years of standoff, they have decided to do what's best for them. According to the Kosovo Constitution they have more rights than (minorities) any other country in the world, compared to the percentage of the population. Because they voted, they will get funding from the central government, and will be able to address problems like electricity, roads, schools, jobs etc. Belgrade politicians only come to Kosovo to destabilize the situation and win votes/moral support. They are unable to succeed in diplomacy, so this is their easiest way.

If I can make a feeble attempt at taking this thread away from the ridiculous rantings of PRN, might I add that the Kosovo Serbs seem to be squeezed between to self-interested forces: Belgrade and Pristina.

Belgrade wants the K Serbs under their control because it gives them a greater sense of leverage over the province. But with leverage comes responsibility and if all they're seen as are conduits for Belgrade's reach in the absence of tangible assistance, I'm not surprised the K Serbs will decide to take matters into their own hands.

Pristina on the other hand couldn't care less about them. To them, the K Serbs are the token people that their officials and overly giddy international supporters need to point to in order to make up this idea that democracy is "flourishing" in this "functioning state". But other than that, there has been ZERO outreach by these guys in terms of inclusiveness. Feith gives them municipalities knowing full well they're going to take it and run.

So at the end of the day, the K Serb continues to look towards Belgrade first for direction, but the time it takes for him to realize there's no bus coming and he better walk if he wants to get anywhere is shrinking.

According to this man Kosova Serbs are in no position to evaluate or judge for themselves. What’s really good for them its only the domain of Belgrade, where wise decision can be made on how to pursue an infinitive boycott. Best placed to issue these directives are not the existing government but preferably the one before it, yes the one filled with sombre men with bushy moustaches. And how do they know all this, by the simple deductions that as long that there are Albanians in Kosova, experiences with them tells us they’re not to be trusted. So the crucial adjustment to the current policy is to issue more threats and demonizations towards our own people, which this time around weren’t strong enough. Problem solved.
You got to love Serb politicians.

Minister said "There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists". Really?

According to the U.N figure the total number of Serbs living in Kosovo is 115,000...so go figure.

You can tell he is because he knows the International community will kill parallel institution in those municipalities in which at least 10% of people voted. There is a reason to his madness after all.

BalkanUpdate said:
“Minister said "There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists". Really?
According to the U.N figure the total number of Serbs living in Kosovo is 115,000...so go figure.”

I think you might be missing an important issue here Update. The Minister’s figure probably refers to the total number of registered K Serb voters both living in Kosova and living in Serbia, not only the former. So from his admission, we can deduce that the total number of K Serbs – inside and outside Kosova – is unlikely to be higher than some 180,000, consistent with what we know about the pe-1999 K Serb population.

That means that if there are 115,000 (or up to 130,000 I’ve often heard) Serbs now living in Kosova, then the total number of K Serb refugees in Serbia and Montenegro can be no more about 70-75,000 (probably including a portion various vicious police and war criminals who will not be returning for obvious reasons). That does not mean that most of these people and their plight is unimportant, but it helps shed further light on the continuous ridiculous propaganda about “250,000 Serb refugees” and other such sheer nonsense, the aim of which is purely demonisation rather than provision of facts.

"Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful. "

The international commission that monitored the elections, disagree. According to it, elections were fully democratic and free. Elections were a complete success that showed how much K-Institutions have matured in just one year since the gaining of independence.

It's great to see how irresponsible and profane is the language coming from Belgrade. What I am trying to say is that more these so-called politicians spread lies publicly, more are they considered un-trustful to the audience they try to reach.
Anyway, thanks to people like Mr. Bogdanovic, the int. community will never take Belgrade seriously.

“Only five or six people voted in some polling stations, but they made it look like there had been a hundred. There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists, but less than 8,000 voted ,which is about five to six percent, including other ethnic minorities, and that cannot be regarded as a success,” the Kosovo minister pointed out.

123,000 on the list? Just how many Kosovar Serbs do you think there are in Kosova?? What a joke.

Village-Bey for president, or at least Bey.

Seriously though, Kosovo needs Albanian leaders with Village-Bey's attitude, it would go far towards helping us Serbs trust the Albanian dominated government in Pristina.

I wonder if this is the same international community that thought GWBush's first presidential win was clean and fair, of if it’s the same community that has ignored the clear and evident tampering in Afghanistan, or if it’s the same community that has demonized Iran and brought into question the validity of the Iranian elections this past summer, or if it’s the same international community that has consistently condemned Chavez's stance for feeding his own people before feeding Wall Street, and always bringing into question his dramatic wins, as well as the many leftist government wins in South and Central America. I wonder if this is the same international community that is supporting the violent coup in Guatemala.
If this is the same international community that claims excellence in Kosovo's latest voting process I would certainly think that one should question it. This international community has demonstrated it is extremely biased, self-centered and can't play well with others, and is not below lying to get what it wants.
That is not democracy. That is a side effect of economic tyranny.

The number games are a dangerous thing especially if the numbers do not add-up.

On one hand when Serbian Politicians want to blame Kosovo Albanians for Serb expulsion a figure of and above 200000 is put forward.
Now when it suits them otherwise a number of 130000 of voters is mentioned.
For a nation to have 130000 eligible voters it should have around 200000 members (averaging around 65% of a voting age) living in the area.
Now when you add 200000 that "were forced to leave" and the 200000 that "seem to still be" in Kosovo a figure of 400000 is reached.
If by the last consensus in Kosovo Serbs accounted for 10%, Kosovo should have had 4 Million inhabitants in the pre 1999 era to have 400000 Serbs.
Now if Kosovo had 2 Million inhabitants in 1999 and if Serbs made up 10% of that…then…….
Well, somebody is telling porkies and it is not the maths.
Or is it simply a “tell a lie that suits bast for the purpose”????

Minister's statement deserves respect at least in terms of recognizing the success of holding free and fair elections in Kosovo. So far the international community has recognized the fairness of these elections. That's what counts. Kosovo's aspirations are joining EU, NATO and other transatlantic organization and becoming a factor of stability in the region. Participation of serbs in the elections is another issue just as it's the participation of other Kosovo minorities such as turks, bosniaks, montenegrins. It's my understanding that no Kosovo institutions has prevented these minorities from participating in these election. On the contrary it's Belgrade trying to influence Kosovo serbs to stay away from the polling stations. The result of this policy is clear. Those existing serbs communities have no local representatives to deal with the cetral governments of Pristina & Belgrade. It's up to Kosovo government to step in to fill in the vacuum created due to serb's non participation in the local elections, meaning either appoint new local serb leaders or abolish these inexistent serb localities uncapable of governing their own affairs independently. I am not sure where the Minister is getting the 123,000 number of serbs living in Kosovo. My impression is that number is away lower than the Minister pretends it to be. Irrespective of this, 5% of Kosovo serbs participation in the local elections is a good sign that Kosovo serbs are finally realizing that their capital now is Pristina and not Belgrade. Peace

123,000 on the list? Just how many Kosovar Serbs do you think there are in Kosova?? What a joke.
(KOSOVARi, 18 November 2009 16:31)

One thing is for sure: you and Pristina do not know because the entire north is dominated by Serbs and the pseudo-authorities have no way of knowing who or what is up there. There could be 500,000 and you would not know it.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 14:37)

But before doing it, Albanians should consult with some other non-Slavs. There are good number of theories, that both Albanians and Romanians lived a primitive life atop some mountains - while entire Europe was populated by tribes speaking agglutinative languages, all being essentially Sumerian colonies.

Just FYI: every Sumerologist can understand old Hungarian texts without much problem.

So you are essentially on Hungarian mercy than and please behave. Otherwise your "Kosova" will be re-named to "Rigómezö", "Peja" to "Pécs" and you can move on the top of Prokletje.

I do not endorse or support these theories, do not blame me. Some have some merit, most don't. But remember: for every "Great Albanian" theory there is an other even "greater" Hungarian theory and unfortunately for you - only your territory (not you) are part of these dreams.

In any case at the moment you produce some nationalist hot air, I can produce an other one, even hotter than anything you ever seen from Serbs. And I can "summon" ancient Sumerians or Elamians. You can't. So be more humble with all that.... Pelazgia. Because at the time when Pelazgians weren't sure, did they hunt the bears in Medvedja or the bears did hunt them Sumerians wrote poems in cuneinform script and used chariots.

For the rest: do not worry, I am not claiming anything in Kosovo or even Vojvodina. If Budapest is border city between Serbia, Slovakia and Croatia is fine for me. If Vlora Citaku is Hungarian PM - also fine for me. This was merely an illustration that for every nationalist craze on one side of the border there is an other one on the other side. If Plazgia will be the new Albania: OK, fine. But than Hungary is Sumeria, all the way from Tirana to Tokyo. Hungarians win hands down, because Sumer is 8000 year old, Pelazgians can't go back that early. ;-)

What can I say my friends, I’m really honoured that you think so highly of me.
If this campaign takes off I’m afraid I would need to revise my pledge to minimum state interference. Power corrupts and all that.
The first thing I want to do is to ban the chilli-eating contest of my village. I’m sick and tired of this silly way of proving one’s manhood.

Correction:
replace Guatemala with Honduras

my bad...

"Village-Bey for president, or at least Bey."

-- Vote village bey 2010 for....Village Bey? :P

Seriously though, I agree with Matthew and throw in my vote too. How's that? A campaign less than a day old and two members of Team Kosovo are already signed on.

"There are also some members of the Serb community who wish that, but this government will not allow Serbs to go against Serbs, and we will not allow the Serb community to be divided"

no place for individues, group logic ... you can't do what you want, we won't allow you to vote ---> not a democracy !!!!!

Well the important thing here is that things are going back to normal,people voting their own institutions is the best thing tha can happen as opposed of being used for leverage.
I fully agree with Mike's comment (even though it's been a while his comments where shifting towards radicalism ) that neither Pristina or Belgrade cares for the Serbs,let's be honest,both are using them for scoring.
"Vote village bey 2010 for....Village Bey"...LOL,
I gotta have some of that stuff he's having,lol...

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

If you have enough,be polite and go to your beloved Albania, the place where you belong.
(D. Popovic, 18 November 2009 12:42)

Dear D. Popovic,

BTW, MOST of today's Serbia is Albania. Serbs are ONLY temporary guests.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 14:37)

Dear PRN

your nationalist posts doing more harm to "Kosova"
then 10 serbian comments. Keep on posting science
fiction greater Albania posts,
show the world what is all about.

Have a nice day.

I feel bad for this man. Rumors are that Tadic plans to fire him.

The new republic like any other free country should keep her interference at a bare minimum and look at ways of promoting the general welfare of all inhabitants.
(village-bey, 18 November 2009 12:43)

Thanks for bringing the level up!

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 14:37)

???? Please show me where You find these 5 million Albanians if in all world live about 8 million - most of them in Albania and Kosovo. So - probably You need for coming all Albanians from Albania and Kosovo to Serbia - better world with european perspectives ;)
No way my friend.

Ps. Poland and Czech Republic said NO reuturn to German aggresors which were expelled after WWII. And - is no problem. This countries are EU members.

"Village-Bey for president, or at least Bey."

-- Vote village bey 2010 for....Village Bey? :P

(Mike, 18 November 2009 20:33)

2010 is the year of Hungarian elections tough. My candidate #1 was and still is Vlora Citaku. Village Bey can be the #2. (Sorry, Village-Bey. But if I would say you are more cute than Vlora Citaku - that would scare and offend you more than being the #2 after her)

But compared with anyone FIDESZ, MSZP, SZDSZ, MDF (the "mainstream") or nazi nuts (roughly the "Kosovo is part of Hungary" guys) you are miles above.... Vlora Citaku included or not.

I am only afraid that if she (or you) would know the amount of mess to clean up, you would pass that job to someone else.

For instance, driving a large van in Budapest is more "bumpy" experience than to do the same in BG or PS. Or forget Serbia Proper - you need to stretch the Hungarian average NET (after-tax) salaries to meet the ones in Pristina. While the grocery prices made me fill my minivan in Vuchtrri's Emona center as much as I could.

The (older) joke:

Bush, Putin and Gyurcsány meet and discuss the salaries.

- "Well, our people have $3500 net at average pro month. In order to live kind of OK, you need at least $2500. What they do with remaining $1000 each month we do not really care"

- "We are still way behind... Our people in Moscow have only about 35000 Rbl net pro month, that's only $1000. In order to live kind of OK you need at least 25000 Rbl each month. What they do with remaining 10000 Rbl we don't really care"

- "To tell the truth, our people after the tax have about 100000 Forint each month, that's $500. In order to live kind of OK you need about 150000 Forint each month. Where they get the remaining 50000 Forint from I personally don't care less"

Anyway, if either you or Vlora want to be a PM in that place, you are welcome.

But if you say "no" - I have really no idea whom to vote for.

# "Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful. "

The international commission that monitored the elections, disagree. According to it, elections were fully democratic and free. Elections were a complete success that showed how much K-Institutions have matured in just one year since the gaining of independence.

It's great to see how irresponsible and profane is the language coming from Belgrade. What I am trying to say is that more these so-called politicians spread lies publicly, more are they considered un-trustful to the audience they try to reach.
Anyway, thanks to people like Mr. Bogdanovic, the int. community will never take Belgrade seriously.
(miri, 18 November 2009 16:26)

amen to you, miri. the language, the accusations... have changed so little since the 90s. what decade is this?

i also agree that as always happens in these cases, those serbs remaining in kosovo/a are not objects of great concern by either country's governments. lots of pretense but not a lot of reality on the ground. i always think that the govt in pristina can and should do better, and of course we won't even mention how the blgd regime treats its despised minorities. but one does NOT justify the other.

but this election went amazingly well from all sources i read, incl and esp.ly the bbc. so go kosovo/a! the usual hate game gets us nowhere fast, and only by working together will progress be made.

it may be a while before blgd recognizes kosovo/a, but who cares? they know that they have lost their former colony, known it since 1999. the rest is for domestic consumption.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

"B92 says: Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful.
B92 should re-check its sources.
As this statement is not a quotation than it must be a B92 opinion. Hence, there goes Journalistic neutrality. Is this just a sample of democracy in Serbia? No wonder all parts break away into independent entities."
(Mirub Jager, 18 November 2009 14:33)

It is the two souls of B92 Mirub, sometimes they both write in the same article. Not often though. In the real world they might manifest as two different news editors, or maybe even as two souls within the same news editor.

123,000 on the list? Just how many Kosovar Serbs do you think there are in Kosova?? What a joke.
(KOSOVARi, 18 November 2009 16:31)

A lot less than there should be because they were expelled.
Now they are not included in the list which is good for you because the percentage of Serbs voting would be even less.

Did anyone count how many dead Serbs voted in this election?

Minister of Kosovo Goran Bogdanović says that the time when Belgrade was sending "directives" had passed.

AGREED, at last, wise comment


“The Albanians certainly wish to create a rift among Serbs.

DISAGREE.
ALbanians want either:
1)Serbs get united and vote altogether in Kosovo, OR ELSE
2)leave/go and vote in Serbia altogether.

Enough with Serbs.

DISAGREE.
ALbanians want either:
1)Serbs get united and vote altogether in Kosovo, OR ELSE
2)leave/go and vote in Serbia altogether.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

1) Albanians can vote with altogether and unite with all citizens of Republic of Serbia
2) K-Serbs ARE in Serbia and vote in Republic of Serbia elections with other citizens of Republic of Serbia.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

If you have enough,be polite and go to your beloved Albania, the place where you belong.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

If you have enough,be polite and go to your beloved Albania, the place where you belong.
(D. Popovic, 18 November 2009 12:42)

Dear D. Popovic,

BTW, MOST of today's Serbia is Albania. Serbs are ONLY temporary guests.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.

According to this man Kosova Serbs are in no position to evaluate or judge for themselves. What’s really good for them its only the domain of Belgrade, where wise decision can be made on how to pursue an infinitive boycott. Best placed to issue these directives are not the existing government but preferably the one before it, yes the one filled with sombre men with bushy moustaches. And how do they know all this, by the simple deductions that as long that there are Albanians in Kosova, experiences with them tells us they’re not to be trusted. So the crucial adjustment to the current policy is to issue more threats and demonizations towards our own people, which this time around weren’t strong enough. Problem solved.
You got to love Serb politicians.

B92 says: Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful.
B92 should re-check its sources.
As this statement is not a quotation than it must be a B92 opinion. Hence, there goes Journalistic neutrality. Is this just a sample of democracy in Serbia? No wonder all parts break away into independent entities.

"Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful. "

The international commission that monitored the elections, disagree. According to it, elections were fully democratic and free. Elections were a complete success that showed how much K-Institutions have matured in just one year since the gaining of independence.

It's great to see how irresponsible and profane is the language coming from Belgrade. What I am trying to say is that more these so-called politicians spread lies publicly, more are they considered un-trustful to the audience they try to reach.
Anyway, thanks to people like Mr. Bogdanovic, the int. community will never take Belgrade seriously.

Serbs still have their own institutions. Newly elected stooges that represent an illegal government will not get Serbian support. I don't think it will be long before they get kicked out of the Serb ghettos.

“Only five or six people voted in some polling stations, but they made it look like there had been a hundred. There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists, but less than 8,000 voted ,which is about five to six percent, including other ethnic minorities, and that cannot be regarded as a success,” the Kosovo minister pointed out.

123,000 on the list? Just how many Kosovar Serbs do you think there are in Kosova?? What a joke.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 14:37)

But before doing it, Albanians should consult with some other non-Slavs. There are good number of theories, that both Albanians and Romanians lived a primitive life atop some mountains - while entire Europe was populated by tribes speaking agglutinative languages, all being essentially Sumerian colonies.

Just FYI: every Sumerologist can understand old Hungarian texts without much problem.

So you are essentially on Hungarian mercy than and please behave. Otherwise your "Kosova" will be re-named to "Rigómezö", "Peja" to "Pécs" and you can move on the top of Prokletje.

I do not endorse or support these theories, do not blame me. Some have some merit, most don't. But remember: for every "Great Albanian" theory there is an other even "greater" Hungarian theory and unfortunately for you - only your territory (not you) are part of these dreams.

In any case at the moment you produce some nationalist hot air, I can produce an other one, even hotter than anything you ever seen from Serbs. And I can "summon" ancient Sumerians or Elamians. You can't. So be more humble with all that.... Pelazgia. Because at the time when Pelazgians weren't sure, did they hunt the bears in Medvedja or the bears did hunt them Sumerians wrote poems in cuneinform script and used chariots.

For the rest: do not worry, I am not claiming anything in Kosovo or even Vojvodina. If Budapest is border city between Serbia, Slovakia and Croatia is fine for me. If Vlora Citaku is Hungarian PM - also fine for me. This was merely an illustration that for every nationalist craze on one side of the border there is an other one on the other side. If Plazgia will be the new Albania: OK, fine. But than Hungary is Sumeria, all the way from Tirana to Tokyo. Hungarians win hands down, because Sumer is 8000 year old, Pelazgians can't go back that early. ;-)

Minister said "There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists". Really?

According to the U.N figure the total number of Serbs living in Kosovo is 115,000...so go figure.

You can tell he is because he knows the International community will kill parallel institution in those municipalities in which at least 10% of people voted. There is a reason to his madness after all.

Kosovo Serbs have shown that they are mature this time and after over 10 years of standoff, they have decided to do what's best for them. According to the Kosovo Constitution they have more rights than (minorities) any other country in the world, compared to the percentage of the population. Because they voted, they will get funding from the central government, and will be able to address problems like electricity, roads, schools, jobs etc. Belgrade politicians only come to Kosovo to destabilize the situation and win votes/moral support. They are unable to succeed in diplomacy, so this is their easiest way.

123,000 on the list? Just how many Kosovar Serbs do you think there are in Kosova?? What a joke.
(KOSOVARi, 18 November 2009 16:31)

One thing is for sure: you and Pristina do not know because the entire north is dominated by Serbs and the pseudo-authorities have no way of knowing who or what is up there. There could be 500,000 and you would not know it.

Minister's statement deserves respect at least in terms of recognizing the success of holding free and fair elections in Kosovo. So far the international community has recognized the fairness of these elections. That's what counts. Kosovo's aspirations are joining EU, NATO and other transatlantic organization and becoming a factor of stability in the region. Participation of serbs in the elections is another issue just as it's the participation of other Kosovo minorities such as turks, bosniaks, montenegrins. It's my understanding that no Kosovo institutions has prevented these minorities from participating in these election. On the contrary it's Belgrade trying to influence Kosovo serbs to stay away from the polling stations. The result of this policy is clear. Those existing serbs communities have no local representatives to deal with the cetral governments of Pristina & Belgrade. It's up to Kosovo government to step in to fill in the vacuum created due to serb's non participation in the local elections, meaning either appoint new local serb leaders or abolish these inexistent serb localities uncapable of governing their own affairs independently. I am not sure where the Minister is getting the 123,000 number of serbs living in Kosovo. My impression is that number is away lower than the Minister pretends it to be. Irrespective of this, 5% of Kosovo serbs participation in the local elections is a good sign that Kosovo serbs are finally realizing that their capital now is Pristina and not Belgrade. Peace

Dear PRN,
Albanians are many and wear different skullcaps, (only Dibër has at least a dozen or so variations), so allow me to disagree with you on that one.
Surely the best solution for us all would be for the Serbs to vote on as many elections as there are, carry as many passports as they can, (Serbian and Kosovar), and move freely in and out of Kosova and vice versa. Kosova is free at last and currently showing tremendous courage and confidence in moving forward and establishing democratic norms.
The new republic like any other free country should keep her interference at a bare minimum and look at ways of promoting the general welfare of all inhabitants.

“Only five or six people voted in some polling stations, but they made it look like there had been a hundred. There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists, but less than 8,000 voted ,which is about five to six percent, including other ethnic minorities, and that cannot be regarded as a success,” the Kosovo minister pointed out.
This guy is living in past. How you can say that there are 123,456 Serbian voters (Sorry! 123,000) on voting list? Are counting the Serbian army commanders and solders in Milosevic era who were forced to “serve” in Kosovo, Serbian police and Milosevic’s Public administration personnel forced to “serve” in Kosovo, Serb’s doctors, teachers, lowers and judges from that time who were forced to “govern” the occupied Kosovo by giving them double salary?!!!
My friend, those days are over and they cannot vote for foreign country anymore. Kosovo people, Albanians, Serbs, Turks, Montenegrins, Bosniaks, Roma, etc. are the ones in voting list and it is up to them to vote or not.

The number games are a dangerous thing especially if the numbers do not add-up.

On one hand when Serbian Politicians want to blame Kosovo Albanians for Serb expulsion a figure of and above 200000 is put forward.
Now when it suits them otherwise a number of 130000 of voters is mentioned.
For a nation to have 130000 eligible voters it should have around 200000 members (averaging around 65% of a voting age) living in the area.
Now when you add 200000 that "were forced to leave" and the 200000 that "seem to still be" in Kosovo a figure of 400000 is reached.
If by the last consensus in Kosovo Serbs accounted for 10%, Kosovo should have had 4 Million inhabitants in the pre 1999 era to have 400000 Serbs.
Now if Kosovo had 2 Million inhabitants in 1999 and if Serbs made up 10% of that…then…….
Well, somebody is telling porkies and it is not the maths.
Or is it simply a “tell a lie that suits bast for the purpose”????

I wonder if this is the same international community that thought GWBush's first presidential win was clean and fair, of if it’s the same community that has ignored the clear and evident tampering in Afghanistan, or if it’s the same community that has demonized Iran and brought into question the validity of the Iranian elections this past summer, or if it’s the same international community that has consistently condemned Chavez's stance for feeding his own people before feeding Wall Street, and always bringing into question his dramatic wins, as well as the many leftist government wins in South and Central America. I wonder if this is the same international community that is supporting the violent coup in Guatemala.
If this is the same international community that claims excellence in Kosovo's latest voting process I would certainly think that one should question it. This international community has demonstrated it is extremely biased, self-centered and can't play well with others, and is not below lying to get what it wants.
That is not democracy. That is a side effect of economic tyranny.

123,000 on the list? Just how many Kosovar Serbs do you think there are in Kosova?? What a joke.
(KOSOVARi, 18 November 2009 16:31)

A lot less than there should be because they were expelled.
Now they are not included in the list which is good for you because the percentage of Serbs voting would be even less.

Did anyone count how many dead Serbs voted in this election?

# "Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful. "

The international commission that monitored the elections, disagree. According to it, elections were fully democratic and free. Elections were a complete success that showed how much K-Institutions have matured in just one year since the gaining of independence.

It's great to see how irresponsible and profane is the language coming from Belgrade. What I am trying to say is that more these so-called politicians spread lies publicly, more are they considered un-trustful to the audience they try to reach.
Anyway, thanks to people like Mr. Bogdanovic, the int. community will never take Belgrade seriously.
(miri, 18 November 2009 16:26)

amen to you, miri. the language, the accusations... have changed so little since the 90s. what decade is this?

i also agree that as always happens in these cases, those serbs remaining in kosovo/a are not objects of great concern by either country's governments. lots of pretense but not a lot of reality on the ground. i always think that the govt in pristina can and should do better, and of course we won't even mention how the blgd regime treats its despised minorities. but one does NOT justify the other.

but this election went amazingly well from all sources i read, incl and esp.ly the bbc. so go kosovo/a! the usual hate game gets us nowhere fast, and only by working together will progress be made.

it may be a while before blgd recognizes kosovo/a, but who cares? they know that they have lost their former colony, known it since 1999. the rest is for domestic consumption.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

If I can make a feeble attempt at taking this thread away from the ridiculous rantings of PRN, might I add that the Kosovo Serbs seem to be squeezed between to self-interested forces: Belgrade and Pristina.

Belgrade wants the K Serbs under their control because it gives them a greater sense of leverage over the province. But with leverage comes responsibility and if all they're seen as are conduits for Belgrade's reach in the absence of tangible assistance, I'm not surprised the K Serbs will decide to take matters into their own hands.

Pristina on the other hand couldn't care less about them. To them, the K Serbs are the token people that their officials and overly giddy international supporters need to point to in order to make up this idea that democracy is "flourishing" in this "functioning state". But other than that, there has been ZERO outreach by these guys in terms of inclusiveness. Feith gives them municipalities knowing full well they're going to take it and run.

So at the end of the day, the K Serb continues to look towards Belgrade first for direction, but the time it takes for him to realize there's no bus coming and he better walk if he wants to get anywhere is shrinking.

BalkanUpdate said:
“Minister said "There are 123,000 Serbian voters on the voting lists". Really?
According to the U.N figure the total number of Serbs living in Kosovo is 115,000...so go figure.”

I think you might be missing an important issue here Update. The Minister’s figure probably refers to the total number of registered K Serb voters both living in Kosova and living in Serbia, not only the former. So from his admission, we can deduce that the total number of K Serbs – inside and outside Kosova – is unlikely to be higher than some 180,000, consistent with what we know about the pe-1999 K Serb population.

That means that if there are 115,000 (or up to 130,000 I’ve often heard) Serbs now living in Kosova, then the total number of K Serb refugees in Serbia and Montenegro can be no more about 70-75,000 (probably including a portion various vicious police and war criminals who will not be returning for obvious reasons). That does not mean that most of these people and their plight is unimportant, but it helps shed further light on the continuous ridiculous propaganda about “250,000 Serb refugees” and other such sheer nonsense, the aim of which is purely demonisation rather than provision of facts.

Village-Bey for president, or at least Bey.

Seriously though, Kosovo needs Albanian leaders with Village-Bey's attitude, it would go far towards helping us Serbs trust the Albanian dominated government in Pristina.

Well the important thing here is that things are going back to normal,people voting their own institutions is the best thing tha can happen as opposed of being used for leverage.
I fully agree with Mike's comment (even though it's been a while his comments where shifting towards radicalism ) that neither Pristina or Belgrade cares for the Serbs,let's be honest,both are using them for scoring.
"Vote village bey 2010 for....Village Bey"...LOL,
I gotta have some of that stuff he's having,lol...

"Village-Bey for president, or at least Bey."

-- Vote village bey 2010 for....Village Bey? :P

(Mike, 18 November 2009 20:33)

2010 is the year of Hungarian elections tough. My candidate #1 was and still is Vlora Citaku. Village Bey can be the #2. (Sorry, Village-Bey. But if I would say you are more cute than Vlora Citaku - that would scare and offend you more than being the #2 after her)

But compared with anyone FIDESZ, MSZP, SZDSZ, MDF (the "mainstream") or nazi nuts (roughly the "Kosovo is part of Hungary" guys) you are miles above.... Vlora Citaku included or not.

I am only afraid that if she (or you) would know the amount of mess to clean up, you would pass that job to someone else.

For instance, driving a large van in Budapest is more "bumpy" experience than to do the same in BG or PS. Or forget Serbia Proper - you need to stretch the Hungarian average NET (after-tax) salaries to meet the ones in Pristina. While the grocery prices made me fill my minivan in Vuchtrri's Emona center as much as I could.

The (older) joke:

Bush, Putin and Gyurcsány meet and discuss the salaries.

- "Well, our people have $3500 net at average pro month. In order to live kind of OK, you need at least $2500. What they do with remaining $1000 each month we do not really care"

- "We are still way behind... Our people in Moscow have only about 35000 Rbl net pro month, that's only $1000. In order to live kind of OK you need at least 25000 Rbl each month. What they do with remaining 10000 Rbl we don't really care"

- "To tell the truth, our people after the tax have about 100000 Forint each month, that's $500. In order to live kind of OK you need about 150000 Forint each month. Where they get the remaining 50000 Forint from I personally don't care less"

Anyway, if either you or Vlora want to be a PM in that place, you are welcome.

But if you say "no" - I have really no idea whom to vote for.

Correction:
replace Guatemala with Honduras

my bad...

"There are also some members of the Serb community who wish that, but this government will not allow Serbs to go against Serbs, and we will not allow the Serb community to be divided"

no place for individues, group logic ... you can't do what you want, we won't allow you to vote ---> not a democracy !!!!!

"Village-Bey for president, or at least Bey."

-- Vote village bey 2010 for....Village Bey? :P

Seriously though, I agree with Matthew and throw in my vote too. How's that? A campaign less than a day old and two members of Team Kosovo are already signed on.

Enough with Serbs.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 10:58)

If you have enough,be polite and go to your beloved Albania, the place where you belong.
(D. Popovic, 18 November 2009 12:42)

Dear D. Popovic,

BTW, MOST of today's Serbia is Albania. Serbs are ONLY temporary guests.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 14:37)

Dear PRN

your nationalist posts doing more harm to "Kosova"
then 10 serbian comments. Keep on posting science
fiction greater Albania posts,
show the world what is all about.

Have a nice day.

I feel bad for this man. Rumors are that Tadic plans to fire him.

What can I say my friends, I’m really honoured that you think so highly of me.
If this campaign takes off I’m afraid I would need to revise my pledge to minimum state interference. Power corrupts and all that.
The first thing I want to do is to ban the chilli-eating contest of my village. I’m sick and tired of this silly way of proving one’s manhood.

Once Serbia joins EU (in 2020 most likely)will be entitled to return/give the land occupied to over 5m Albanians authoctonous citizens who were subject to expulsion in Turkey.
(PRN, 18 November 2009 14:37)

???? Please show me where You find these 5 million Albanians if in all world live about 8 million - most of them in Albania and Kosovo. So - probably You need for coming all Albanians from Albania and Kosovo to Serbia - better world with european perspectives ;)
No way my friend.

Ps. Poland and Czech Republic said NO reuturn to German aggresors which were expelled after WWII. And - is no problem. This countries are EU members.

The new republic like any other free country should keep her interference at a bare minimum and look at ways of promoting the general welfare of all inhabitants.
(village-bey, 18 November 2009 12:43)

Thanks for bringing the level up!

"B92 says: Kosovo Albanian authorities have done everything, from manipulations to bribing, in order to declare the elections successful.
B92 should re-check its sources.
As this statement is not a quotation than it must be a B92 opinion. Hence, there goes Journalistic neutrality. Is this just a sample of democracy in Serbia? No wonder all parts break away into independent entities."
(Mirub Jager, 18 November 2009 14:33)

It is the two souls of B92 Mirub, sometimes they both write in the same article. Not often though. In the real world they might manifest as two different news editors, or maybe even as two souls within the same news editor.