Thaci party claims victory in local vote

Serbs and Albanians seem to have a similar turnout. The most remarkable thing is that the people of Kosovo boykoted and ignored this election. No matter what their corrupt or just incompetent leaders and this disgusting unproffessional public TV RTK told them. Kosovo-Albanians are selling all they have and risking their lifes to find refuge in a french doss house. Nevertheless Kosovo President Sejdiu declares Kosovo meets all conditions for free travel and should be an EU member soon. Is this guy cynical? I guess he's not. Cynism requires subtleness, he's just repressing reality. Just like all institutions and especially the media of Kosovo do. They'll tell you this vote was a success, report new recognitions to come very, very, very soon, kerbstones in a particular part of this or that city were assembled conform to EU-Standard and what a big progress "our country" is making. It remides you of socialist propaganda of the fifties? Just watch RTK (Kosovo TV) eventually!

Slowly but surely, the Kosovo Serbs are starting to accept the reality on the ground.

Why shuld they not vote for their own people to run their municipalities after all??

if less than 50% of the registered voters participated, there is no majority, and the winner is chosen by the few. this will lead to chaos in the future. failure of elections should be sought.

45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards. European average is at about 40% and sometimes significantly lower than that. Despite countless problems that face local population daily, participation remains relatively high.
The crucial questions about these elections were the international recognised standards, and from what we have seen and heard these elections were exemplary in every way.
Well-done Kosova.

"There are no jobs, no money, no economy, no justice, and no hope."

You are right, but don't lose hope. In Serbia, first you need to get rid of the oligarchs and then hope that EU will give you some justice and hope. And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them.

Slowly but surely, the Kosovo Serbs are starting to accept the reality on the ground.

Why shuld they not vote for their own people to run their municipalities after all??
(Nick KS, 16 November 2009 11:26)

???? Serbian North - totally ignored elections organized by illegal authorities from Pristina. In Štrpce - with 70% Serb majority - voted more Albanians than Serbs. Same in Novo Brdo. In other areas voted minority.

So - Serbian North - totally boycoted and Serbian South - in majority boycoted illegal government from Pristina. Reality is that citizens of North Kosovo, Štrpce, Novo Brdo and other areas - are loyal to their motherland - Republic of Serbia. And european community must accept this reality.

No surprise Serbs in northern Kosovo barely voted, yet I am surprised Serbs in Strpce, the most isolated of all enclaves voted so little. I would have thought they of all people would have had the largest percentage of votes. It's also interesting to read that only 700,000 out of 2 million+ are registered voters? We keep hearing about how this vote is "historical" for Kosovo and less than half its population are even "registered" to vote? If this were mid-term elections in New Jersey, I could totally see it. But if voter apathy is already setting in within Europe's "newest state", I'm not that optimistic.

And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them.
(ARta, 16 November 2009 17:39)

Why don’t you stop taking billions and billions and billions from rest of the world. Do something on your own for once. Prove to the world and your citizens that you are capable of making it on your own.

45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 12:12)

You must be kidding! In Holland must more people vote.
Thought Kosovo was such a demcoracy loving affair. Well, then I expected at least 70 % of the people to vote.

And if only a few percents of the Serbians vote maybe that shows that Serbians don't want an independent Kosovo at all.

well done mate, keep up the good work

You know why only a minority of albanians and few Serbs voted? They know it is a bogus government and a false state, so why should they bother. They know the ICJ will invalidate the UDI and they have to go back to the beginning. There are no jobs, no money, no economy, no justice, and no hope. They know the secret of america's new world order: everything for americans, nothing for the rest of the world.

Ron my good friend,
You right when you say that the Dutch have unusually a high turnover in their elections generally, although your recent European parliament elections turnover was just below Kosova’s local turnover at 44.5%.
Let me try to explain to you one thing. Local elections at present time matter very little in Kosova, probably less that European election to the Dutch. These elections were primarily "fought" between two principal parties that are governing together. There is very little in terms of ideological, visionary or practical difference between these two parties, and that’s why many people have argued that it is time for LDK to turn into opposition.
There are many other reasons that make local elections in Albanian dominated areas pretty pointless exercise, in terms of someone making a difference by casting his vote.
The fact that so many voters turned out to vote makes this election extremely good. The manner in which this election was conducted has been nothing short of exceptional.

village-bey,

Well you've got me on the local knowledge part, seeing as how I'm currently in NJ. But if we're going to talking about who's better on local knowledge of Kosovo, particularly it's Serbs, I wonder what you think of the chances of the Serbs now working with Pristina? I've been saying for a while now that whether they voted or not (and 25% is certainly better than 3% but is clearly no mandate as my beloved "ambassador" apparently got all excited over), what's the likelihood these Serbs recognize authority in Pristina? That's a threshold we've yet to cross, or ever will. Let's see how many K-Serbs go to the polls when the rest of Serbia holds elections, and then we'll talk.

"In Serbia, first you need to get rid of the oligarchs and then hope that EU will give you some justice and hope. And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them. (ARta)"

-- Haha, I'd say the exact same for Kosovo, but why bring up the painfully obvious and get you all upset when you can enjoy a refreshing glass of Kool Aid?

You got your maths wrong Mike. There are 2 million + inhabitants not registered voters; so 700,000 cast votes make up roughly half of the eligible vote. Pretty good I would say.
As for the surprise factor I too was surprised
Despite fellow Serbs physically turning away those who wanted to vote, I would say the numbers of the Serbs who voted are highly indicative.
Indicative of a trend, and it goes like an arithmetic progression, more Serbs voted this time that the last one.
I wont include the formula.
Although I respect your sound logic, it has always been my opinion that your Achilles heel is your lack of local knowledge.

You are right, but don't lose hope. In Serbia, first you need to get rid of the oligarchs and then hope that EU will give you some justice and hope. And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them.
(ARta, 16 November 2009 17:39)
Serbia can borrow - and return these billions. Pseudokosovo - only waiting for donators ;)

Mayor in Štrpce will be from serb political party. I was informed by ppl who live there. And also I've been told that by ahtisaari plan there is no posibility that minority in this case Albanians can rule over majority i.e. Serbs. So Serbs will rule with Štrpce.

In the north 0.75% of Albanians voted for party of Ramush Haradinaj. Serbs boycotted the elections. You really believe that this political party is going to rule with the municipality of Zvecan? It's not possible. It's not real at all.

'45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 12:12) '

By US standards, 45% in a local election (with no issue of over-riding importance) would be a miracle.

According to the international observers, this was a well-run election - congratulations and felicitations!

The manner in which this election was conducted has been nothing short of exceptional.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 17:34)

On the local level: fine. But is time Albanians accept that on the NATIONAL level they are part of Serbia.

Time for Washington and the EU to tell that to the Albanians. Even the USA has to obey international law!

The fact that so many voters turned out to vote makes this election extremely good. The manner in which this election was conducted has been nothing short of exceptional.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 17:34)

It is. Given the number of children (2.4 / woman) that number is surreal high for me.

Arta,

Serbia has more problems they care to Admit.

I have few rowing friends from Serbia from college days and I been there and wow outside Belgrad (which is very nice town) you have people making 150E, 200E.

They have issue with public sector everyone knows this ( they have a request to lower it) but cant right away since they know protests will follow.

Peace from Norway

# 45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards. European average is at about 40% and sometimes significantly lower than that. Despite countless problems that face local population daily, participation remains relatively high.
The crucial questions about these elections were the international recognised standards, and from what we have seen and heard these elections were exemplary in every way.
Well-done Kosova.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 12:12)

Thanks, i agree with you, village bey, despite the usual nay-sayers. as far as i have seen and read, the turnout was strong (certainly by our standards in US.) things seem to have gone well, but can always get better. we should always strive for better...

keep yr eyes on the prize.

and once again i wish to thank sonia biserko (and her colleagues) for encouraging local serbs to get out and vote. i'm sure that was not something easy to accomplish, given the various pressures. some pats on the back well deserved. local networking is impt, as always.

thanks.

robert-0 frisco

Forgive me for my over appearance tonight my friends but I have an irrepressible need for a lengthy healthy debate. Like I say too often to my wife “do not wake that sleeping dragon”.
Totally agree with what you say Mike, the only bit that you left out is our beloved FO Jeremic.
Just a few day ago he appeared in front of European parliament foreign affairs committee where he made a direct link between those would-be Serbs participating in this local elections with those handful “loyal” Albanians that collaborated with Milosevic.
Inference was clear, he and his government would label all those who would take part in these elections traitors of the Serbian cause, exactly like the Albanians had done with those that collaborated with Serbian police and military during the heavy years of repression.
The parallel couldn’t have been more misplaced.
After the significant participation of Serbs of Kosova in local elections Mr Jeremic might have wished not to have made that comparison in the first place. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but aren’t foreign ministers supposed to be good at predicting what is going to happen next.
Not this foreign minister I guess.
There is little doubt that this is a heavy blow to those who advocated boycott, many of whom sit comfortably in Belgrade.

Nice to see u again Ataman.

I wonder how many of those Serbs that voted are actually living Serbs and not some names plucked from the local Serbian cemetary.

Oliver Ivanović says that the participation of Kosovo Serbs in the local elections shows that Belgrade’s influence in the province has been shaken.

sure even you realize that! the boss in kosovo are the albanians and only americans time for serbs are over the train has leave the station since the war in 1999

Nice to see u again Ataman.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 22:54)

Greetings to highlander from lowlander.

In theory, you should be able to see me closer. If not the crazy ASIC specification I expected myself to show up in PS by mid-November. So I won't be there probably till start of December...

Now, what I can't understand: how can anyone summon 700K adult people to vote out of 2 million who live in Kosov@. The number of children under 18 should be well over 1 million. Now that means almost 100% participation. As I wrote, it sounds almost to good to be true. Any math mistake here?

In any case, I am pretty unhappy that the current status quo with Thaci & co. remains, but this is personal. I would rather see others and you know whom. Given the current trend we have to wait many more years to see better choices.

I really under-appreciate the role of Dell tough. He should not put his nose into what is not his business. Unless his bosses have vested interest to preserve what is now.

There is little doubt that this is a heavy blow to those who advocated boycott, many of whom sit comfortably in Belgrade.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 22:54)

That's fine, Village-Bey.
But I have to turn the same thing around. I completely understand if Albanians are unhappy with many things in Belgrade. Than vote the ones you do not like out of the system. But Albanians do not vote because the do not want to recognize Belgrade being involved in Kosovo.

I believe the only just solution about Kosovo has to be negotiated between Albania Proper and Serbia Proper. And that solution would be ideally a much better state union than Jugo was. Drawing borders among ethnic and religious lines does not work well.

This is how a border should NOT look like, what a pathetic circus, read the story and watch the movie

Story link (sorry, it's wiki, not the best, but short enough):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah

The movie... a circus to entertain the lemmings:

http://tinyurl.com/ygfnn2s

Watch these "angry" border guards.

the ones that still is missguided or don´t understand the situation, please read this:

http://www.slobodnaevropa.org/content/kosovo_izbori_srbija/1879818.html


feel sorry for serbs in kosovo, left by them self and even called traitorsby "its ows PM"

Slowly but surely, the Kosovo Serbs are starting to accept the reality on the ground.

Why shuld they not vote for their own people to run their municipalities after all??

45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards. European average is at about 40% and sometimes significantly lower than that. Despite countless problems that face local population daily, participation remains relatively high.
The crucial questions about these elections were the international recognised standards, and from what we have seen and heard these elections were exemplary in every way.
Well-done Kosova.

You know why only a minority of albanians and few Serbs voted? They know it is a bogus government and a false state, so why should they bother. They know the ICJ will invalidate the UDI and they have to go back to the beginning. There are no jobs, no money, no economy, no justice, and no hope. They know the secret of america's new world order: everything for americans, nothing for the rest of the world.

if less than 50% of the registered voters participated, there is no majority, and the winner is chosen by the few. this will lead to chaos in the future. failure of elections should be sought.

45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 12:12)

You must be kidding! In Holland must more people vote.
Thought Kosovo was such a demcoracy loving affair. Well, then I expected at least 70 % of the people to vote.

And if only a few percents of the Serbians vote maybe that shows that Serbians don't want an independent Kosovo at all.

Slowly but surely, the Kosovo Serbs are starting to accept the reality on the ground.

Why shuld they not vote for their own people to run their municipalities after all??
(Nick KS, 16 November 2009 11:26)

???? Serbian North - totally ignored elections organized by illegal authorities from Pristina. In Štrpce - with 70% Serb majority - voted more Albanians than Serbs. Same in Novo Brdo. In other areas voted minority.

So - Serbian North - totally boycoted and Serbian South - in majority boycoted illegal government from Pristina. Reality is that citizens of North Kosovo, Štrpce, Novo Brdo and other areas - are loyal to their motherland - Republic of Serbia. And european community must accept this reality.

No surprise Serbs in northern Kosovo barely voted, yet I am surprised Serbs in Strpce, the most isolated of all enclaves voted so little. I would have thought they of all people would have had the largest percentage of votes. It's also interesting to read that only 700,000 out of 2 million+ are registered voters? We keep hearing about how this vote is "historical" for Kosovo and less than half its population are even "registered" to vote? If this were mid-term elections in New Jersey, I could totally see it. But if voter apathy is already setting in within Europe's "newest state", I'm not that optimistic.

You got your maths wrong Mike. There are 2 million + inhabitants not registered voters; so 700,000 cast votes make up roughly half of the eligible vote. Pretty good I would say.
As for the surprise factor I too was surprised
Despite fellow Serbs physically turning away those who wanted to vote, I would say the numbers of the Serbs who voted are highly indicative.
Indicative of a trend, and it goes like an arithmetic progression, more Serbs voted this time that the last one.
I wont include the formula.
Although I respect your sound logic, it has always been my opinion that your Achilles heel is your lack of local knowledge.

The manner in which this election was conducted has been nothing short of exceptional.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 17:34)

On the local level: fine. But is time Albanians accept that on the NATIONAL level they are part of Serbia.

Time for Washington and the EU to tell that to the Albanians. Even the USA has to obey international law!

"There are no jobs, no money, no economy, no justice, and no hope."

You are right, but don't lose hope. In Serbia, first you need to get rid of the oligarchs and then hope that EU will give you some justice and hope. And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them.

# 45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards. European average is at about 40% and sometimes significantly lower than that. Despite countless problems that face local population daily, participation remains relatively high.
The crucial questions about these elections were the international recognised standards, and from what we have seen and heard these elections were exemplary in every way.
Well-done Kosova.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 12:12)

Thanks, i agree with you, village bey, despite the usual nay-sayers. as far as i have seen and read, the turnout was strong (certainly by our standards in US.) things seem to have gone well, but can always get better. we should always strive for better...

keep yr eyes on the prize.

and once again i wish to thank sonia biserko (and her colleagues) for encouraging local serbs to get out and vote. i'm sure that was not something easy to accomplish, given the various pressures. some pats on the back well deserved. local networking is impt, as always.

thanks.

robert-0 frisco

Serbs and Albanians seem to have a similar turnout. The most remarkable thing is that the people of Kosovo boykoted and ignored this election. No matter what their corrupt or just incompetent leaders and this disgusting unproffessional public TV RTK told them. Kosovo-Albanians are selling all they have and risking their lifes to find refuge in a french doss house. Nevertheless Kosovo President Sejdiu declares Kosovo meets all conditions for free travel and should be an EU member soon. Is this guy cynical? I guess he's not. Cynism requires subtleness, he's just repressing reality. Just like all institutions and especially the media of Kosovo do. They'll tell you this vote was a success, report new recognitions to come very, very, very soon, kerbstones in a particular part of this or that city were assembled conform to EU-Standard and what a big progress "our country" is making. It remides you of socialist propaganda of the fifties? Just watch RTK (Kosovo TV) eventually!

Ron my good friend,
You right when you say that the Dutch have unusually a high turnover in their elections generally, although your recent European parliament elections turnover was just below Kosova’s local turnover at 44.5%.
Let me try to explain to you one thing. Local elections at present time matter very little in Kosova, probably less that European election to the Dutch. These elections were primarily "fought" between two principal parties that are governing together. There is very little in terms of ideological, visionary or practical difference between these two parties, and that’s why many people have argued that it is time for LDK to turn into opposition.
There are many other reasons that make local elections in Albanian dominated areas pretty pointless exercise, in terms of someone making a difference by casting his vote.
The fact that so many voters turned out to vote makes this election extremely good. The manner in which this election was conducted has been nothing short of exceptional.

Arta,

Serbia has more problems they care to Admit.

I have few rowing friends from Serbia from college days and I been there and wow outside Belgrad (which is very nice town) you have people making 150E, 200E.

They have issue with public sector everyone knows this ( they have a request to lower it) but cant right away since they know protests will follow.

Peace from Norway

'45 % turnout at local election is pretty good by everyone standards.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 12:12) '

By US standards, 45% in a local election (with no issue of over-riding importance) would be a miracle.

According to the international observers, this was a well-run election - congratulations and felicitations!

well done mate, keep up the good work

Oliver Ivanović says that the participation of Kosovo Serbs in the local elections shows that Belgrade’s influence in the province has been shaken.

sure even you realize that! the boss in kosovo are the albanians and only americans time for serbs are over the train has leave the station since the war in 1999

You are right, but don't lose hope. In Serbia, first you need to get rid of the oligarchs and then hope that EU will give you some justice and hope. And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them.
(ARta, 16 November 2009 17:39)
Serbia can borrow - and return these billions. Pseudokosovo - only waiting for donators ;)

And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them.
(ARta, 16 November 2009 17:39)

Why don’t you stop taking billions and billions and billions from rest of the world. Do something on your own for once. Prove to the world and your citizens that you are capable of making it on your own.

Forgive me for my over appearance tonight my friends but I have an irrepressible need for a lengthy healthy debate. Like I say too often to my wife “do not wake that sleeping dragon”.
Totally agree with what you say Mike, the only bit that you left out is our beloved FO Jeremic.
Just a few day ago he appeared in front of European parliament foreign affairs committee where he made a direct link between those would-be Serbs participating in this local elections with those handful “loyal” Albanians that collaborated with Milosevic.
Inference was clear, he and his government would label all those who would take part in these elections traitors of the Serbian cause, exactly like the Albanians had done with those that collaborated with Serbian police and military during the heavy years of repression.
The parallel couldn’t have been more misplaced.
After the significant participation of Serbs of Kosova in local elections Mr Jeremic might have wished not to have made that comparison in the first place. Hindsight is a wonderful thing but aren’t foreign ministers supposed to be good at predicting what is going to happen next.
Not this foreign minister I guess.
There is little doubt that this is a heavy blow to those who advocated boycott, many of whom sit comfortably in Belgrade.

Nice to see u again Ataman.

The fact that so many voters turned out to vote makes this election extremely good. The manner in which this election was conducted has been nothing short of exceptional.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 17:34)

It is. Given the number of children (2.4 / woman) that number is surreal high for me.

village-bey,

Well you've got me on the local knowledge part, seeing as how I'm currently in NJ. But if we're going to talking about who's better on local knowledge of Kosovo, particularly it's Serbs, I wonder what you think of the chances of the Serbs now working with Pristina? I've been saying for a while now that whether they voted or not (and 25% is certainly better than 3% but is clearly no mandate as my beloved "ambassador" apparently got all excited over), what's the likelihood these Serbs recognize authority in Pristina? That's a threshold we've yet to cross, or ever will. Let's see how many K-Serbs go to the polls when the rest of Serbia holds elections, and then we'll talk.

I wonder how many of those Serbs that voted are actually living Serbs and not some names plucked from the local Serbian cemetary.

"In Serbia, first you need to get rid of the oligarchs and then hope that EU will give you some justice and hope. And stop borrowing billions and billions and billions, someone has to pay them. (ARta)"

-- Haha, I'd say the exact same for Kosovo, but why bring up the painfully obvious and get you all upset when you can enjoy a refreshing glass of Kool Aid?

Mayor in Štrpce will be from serb political party. I was informed by ppl who live there. And also I've been told that by ahtisaari plan there is no posibility that minority in this case Albanians can rule over majority i.e. Serbs. So Serbs will rule with Štrpce.

In the north 0.75% of Albanians voted for party of Ramush Haradinaj. Serbs boycotted the elections. You really believe that this political party is going to rule with the municipality of Zvecan? It's not possible. It's not real at all.

the ones that still is missguided or don´t understand the situation, please read this:

http://www.slobodnaevropa.org/content/kosovo_izbori_srbija/1879818.html


feel sorry for serbs in kosovo, left by them self and even called traitorsby "its ows PM"

Nice to see u again Ataman.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 22:54)

Greetings to highlander from lowlander.

In theory, you should be able to see me closer. If not the crazy ASIC specification I expected myself to show up in PS by mid-November. So I won't be there probably till start of December...

Now, what I can't understand: how can anyone summon 700K adult people to vote out of 2 million who live in Kosov@. The number of children under 18 should be well over 1 million. Now that means almost 100% participation. As I wrote, it sounds almost to good to be true. Any math mistake here?

In any case, I am pretty unhappy that the current status quo with Thaci & co. remains, but this is personal. I would rather see others and you know whom. Given the current trend we have to wait many more years to see better choices.

I really under-appreciate the role of Dell tough. He should not put his nose into what is not his business. Unless his bosses have vested interest to preserve what is now.

There is little doubt that this is a heavy blow to those who advocated boycott, many of whom sit comfortably in Belgrade.
(village-bey, 16 November 2009 22:54)

That's fine, Village-Bey.
But I have to turn the same thing around. I completely understand if Albanians are unhappy with many things in Belgrade. Than vote the ones you do not like out of the system. But Albanians do not vote because the do not want to recognize Belgrade being involved in Kosovo.

I believe the only just solution about Kosovo has to be negotiated between Albania Proper and Serbia Proper. And that solution would be ideally a much better state union than Jugo was. Drawing borders among ethnic and religious lines does not work well.

This is how a border should NOT look like, what a pathetic circus, read the story and watch the movie

Story link (sorry, it's wiki, not the best, but short enough):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagah

The movie... a circus to entertain the lemmings:

http://tinyurl.com/ygfnn2s

Watch these "angry" border guards.