Dutch FM, MPs on Serbia's Hague cooperation

If Brammertz’s evaluation says that Belgrade authorities are doing everything they can to locate, arrest and extradite the accused fugitives Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić, the Netherlands would not oppose Serbia’s further approach to EU, first of all regarding the trade relations but also lifting of the visa regime,” he said.

This is very encouraging news. I have always been opposed to the idea that one countries obstinance could so impede another's determined progress. I am still opposed to that situation but at least this would suggest that the country in question is beginning to understand how the majority of others feel about their stance. Is it just me or do I sense a wave of sensible pragmatism creeping around Europe with regard to The Balkans? I certainly hope so. My hope is that this pragmatism is as infectious as the swine flu and that my own country's (UK) government catches it. Can we all now please set aside any ill considered predjudices and look at things in a clearer headed way. That way lays a brighter, safer future in Europe I think.

“We are strict, but we treat everyone the same,” said he.

No you don't mr minister.
How come Croatia was allowed the SAA before Ante Gotovina was captured then?

It would be quite comical if Mladic was caught in France or Germany though.. Just as Radovan moved freely thru Austria and Italy before his arrest

"Actually after the Lisbon treaty comes into power it doesn't matter anymore what Verhagen thinks. The treaty means, among other things, that one single country can not veto issues anymore. That includes the issue of ratifying the SAA agreement."

Are you sure? I think foreign politics issues still require full consensus among the member states. I'm not sure that the SAA goes under foreign politics though.

Don't believe anything they say. They said, "Oh we insist on Mladic because Karadzic will be harder to find" and when he was arrested they implie they will end their SAA veto. Thwey didn't.

They also lied about other non-SAA agreements, to during voting lie.

Chances are they're lying again.

Actually after the Lisbon treaty comes into power it doesn't matter anymore what Verhagen thinks. The treaty means, among other things, that one single country can not veto issues anymore. That includes the issue of ratifying the SAA agreement.

Here is the problem: there is no full cooperation fr the Blgd regime with the hague. that is a lie. if you study tadic's statements in any depth, you realize that there is no political will to "capture" mladic. the blgd regime refuses to act, but instead remains in "passive" mode. he continues to be "hidden" and coddled. this could easily continue for the next 10 years, as it has continued for the last 15.

the only and i mean only thing that works here is international pressure. carrot and stick, however you term it. it is too bad but that's the way it is.

if we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 12 November



Who’s we bro? As you see yourself being part of the intls’s and taken into their confidence? When do you propose to take Mladic, today, tomorrow or next week?

Your usual incoherent ramblings are getting worse.

Roberto,

”Here is the problem: there is no full cooperation fr the Blgd regime with the hague. that is a lie. if you study tadic's statements in any depth, you realize that there is no political will to "capture" mladic. the blgd regime refuses to act, but instead remains in "passive" mode. he continues to be "hidden" and coddled. this could easily continue for the next 10 years, as it has continued for the last 15.”

I don't buy that. The Serbian government has extradited 44 out of 46 war crimes suspects, including two former presidents. Why would they go though all that trouble, balancing on the verge of political suicide, only to protect the remaining two?

”the only and i mean only thing that works here is international pressure. carrot and stick, however you term it. it is too bad but that's the way it is.

if we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world. ”

That only makes sense if you totally disregard the future of the Serbian people. As much as I'd like to see Mladic go to the Hague, I find it infinitely more important for the people of Serbia (and in extension the whole region) to have good lives and a prosperous, peaceful future. That to me means continued democratization and european integration, and consequently that the positive forces that currently are at rule stay there. Your infamous stick does not serve to achieve that. In fact it has been dangerously close to pushing Serbia into the hands of the radicals at numerous times.

And by the way, with the radicals in power the chances of seeing Mladic in the Hague wouldn't exactly get better.

Mircea,

Dunno, what's that got to do with anything?

Cheers,

Carl

Carl,

When will Sweden adopt the Euro?
(Mircea, 12 November 2009 19:35)
Never

Here is the problem: there is no full cooperation fr the Blgd regime with the hague. that is a lie. if you study tadic's statements in any depth, you realize that there is no political will to "capture" mladic. the blgd regime refuses to act, but instead remains in "passive" mode. he continues to be "hidden" and coddled. this could easily continue for the next 10 years, as it has continued for the last 15.

the only and i mean only thing that works here is international pressure. carrot and stick, however you term it. it is too bad but that's the way it is.

if we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 12 November 2009 21:02)

Right on roberto, let's join our efforts to also arrest the criminals currently heading kosovo and all irrespective from their nationalities, would you agree with that or are you as always playing the good and bad coop???
Your clear answer highly appreciated!!

excellent comment from carl. i'll just add that the stick was used against serbs plenty of times over past 20 years - sanctions, nato bombing, expulsions from croatia and kosovo etc. it was mostly ordinary serbs who suffered, those who actually committed crimes actually profited from the situation. and there were too few carrots and once they are offered the dutch block them. that's obviously not the way to go. if you care about the people. roberto doesn't.

Carl,

When will Sweden adopt the Euro?

Here is the problem: there is no full cooperation fr the Blgd regime with the hague. that is a lie. if you study tadic's statements in any depth, you realize that there is no political will to "capture" mladic. the blgd regime refuses to act, but instead remains in "passive" mode. he continues to be "hidden" and coddled. this could easily continue for the next 10 years, as it has continued for the last 15.

the only and i mean only thing that works here is international pressure. carrot and stick, however you term it. it is too bad but that's the way it is.

if we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world.

thank you.

roberto
frisco

Don't believe anything they say. They said, "Oh we insist on Mladic because Karadzic will be harder to find" and when he was arrested they implie they will end their SAA veto. Thwey didn't.

They also lied about other non-SAA agreements, to during voting lie.

Chances are they're lying again.

Carl,

When will Sweden adopt the Euro?

Actually after the Lisbon treaty comes into power it doesn't matter anymore what Verhagen thinks. The treaty means, among other things, that one single country can not veto issues anymore. That includes the issue of ratifying the SAA agreement.

If Brammertz’s evaluation says that Belgrade authorities are doing everything they can to locate, arrest and extradite the accused fugitives Ratko Mladić and Goran Hadžić, the Netherlands would not oppose Serbia’s further approach to EU, first of all regarding the trade relations but also lifting of the visa regime,” he said.

This is very encouraging news. I have always been opposed to the idea that one countries obstinance could so impede another's determined progress. I am still opposed to that situation but at least this would suggest that the country in question is beginning to understand how the majority of others feel about their stance. Is it just me or do I sense a wave of sensible pragmatism creeping around Europe with regard to The Balkans? I certainly hope so. My hope is that this pragmatism is as infectious as the swine flu and that my own country's (UK) government catches it. Can we all now please set aside any ill considered predjudices and look at things in a clearer headed way. That way lays a brighter, safer future in Europe I think.

“We are strict, but we treat everyone the same,” said he.

No you don't mr minister.
How come Croatia was allowed the SAA before Ante Gotovina was captured then?

It would be quite comical if Mladic was caught in France or Germany though.. Just as Radovan moved freely thru Austria and Italy before his arrest

Here is the problem: there is no full cooperation fr the Blgd regime with the hague. that is a lie. if you study tadic's statements in any depth, you realize that there is no political will to "capture" mladic. the blgd regime refuses to act, but instead remains in "passive" mode. he continues to be "hidden" and coddled. this could easily continue for the next 10 years, as it has continued for the last 15.

the only and i mean only thing that works here is international pressure. carrot and stick, however you term it. it is too bad but that's the way it is.

if we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 12 November



Who’s we bro? As you see yourself being part of the intls’s and taken into their confidence? When do you propose to take Mladic, today, tomorrow or next week?

Your usual incoherent ramblings are getting worse.

"Actually after the Lisbon treaty comes into power it doesn't matter anymore what Verhagen thinks. The treaty means, among other things, that one single country can not veto issues anymore. That includes the issue of ratifying the SAA agreement."

Are you sure? I think foreign politics issues still require full consensus among the member states. I'm not sure that the SAA goes under foreign politics though.

we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world.

thank you.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 12 November 2009 21:02)

Right on roberto, let's join our efforts to also arrest the criminals currently heading kosovo and all irrespective from their nationalities, would you agree with that or are you as always playing the good and bad coop???
Your clear answer highly appreciated!!

Carl,

When will Sweden adopt the Euro?
(Mircea, 12 November 2009 19:35)
Never

Roberto,

”Here is the problem: there is no full cooperation fr the Blgd regime with the hague. that is a lie. if you study tadic's statements in any depth, you realize that there is no political will to "capture" mladic. the blgd regime refuses to act, but instead remains in "passive" mode. he continues to be "hidden" and coddled. this could easily continue for the next 10 years, as it has continued for the last 15.”

I don't buy that. The Serbian government has extradited 44 out of 46 war crimes suspects, including two former presidents. Why would they go though all that trouble, balancing on the verge of political suicide, only to protect the remaining two?

”the only and i mean only thing that works here is international pressure. carrot and stick, however you term it. it is too bad but that's the way it is.

if we want "alleged" war criminal mladic in the hague WE -- the intls -- need to keep the pressure up. otherwise it is quite hopeless. all of mladic's victims deserve justice. so much more than we have offered them. shame on the blgd regime and shame on the world. ”

That only makes sense if you totally disregard the future of the Serbian people. As much as I'd like to see Mladic go to the Hague, I find it infinitely more important for the people of Serbia (and in extension the whole region) to have good lives and a prosperous, peaceful future. That to me means continued democratization and european integration, and consequently that the positive forces that currently are at rule stay there. Your infamous stick does not serve to achieve that. In fact it has been dangerously close to pushing Serbia into the hands of the radicals at numerous times.

And by the way, with the radicals in power the chances of seeing Mladic in the Hague wouldn't exactly get better.

Mircea,

Dunno, what's that got to do with anything?

Cheers,

Carl

excellent comment from carl. i'll just add that the stick was used against serbs plenty of times over past 20 years - sanctions, nato bombing, expulsions from croatia and kosovo etc. it was mostly ordinary serbs who suffered, those who actually committed crimes actually profited from the situation. and there were too few carrots and once they are offered the dutch block them. that's obviously not the way to go. if you care about the people. roberto doesn't.