K. Albanian leader optimistic over ICJ

"historical, legal and constitutional arguments"

????
1. In all history were not on the territory of Kosovo any "independent" Kosovo state (except medieval serbian state of Brankovići)
2. Is UDI legal act as international law (inc. UN Resolution 1244) show, that Kosovo is part of Republic of Serbia??
3. Give Constitution of Republic of Serbia right for Kosovo seccesion??

So - is any historical, legal or constitutional arguments for support this illegal attempt. Only - brutal power of USA/NATO invasion.

"Sejdiu added that Serbia "could not prove its ownership of Kosovo", and that "even the Serbian legal team is aware of this", writes Priština-based Albanian language daily Koha Ditore."

Was something lost in the translation here? Either that or Sejdiu has completely lost his sanity. Assuming the translation is correct then he only has to read UNSCR 1244 which states NUMEROUS times that Kosovo is a part of Serbia, so what more proof does he need?

P.S to all the albo's don't waste your time replying that UNSCR 1244 states that you have the right to self determination, because it doesn't. The ONE line that you and your US and EU masters often quote is taken out of context. ANYBODY with any intelligence who is impartial and fully reads UNSCR 1244 would conclude that Kosovo is an inalienable part of Serbia. The reality is that Sejdiu KNOWS this. This is why the EU, US and Albanians have been working so hard to get UN recognition. They are desperate to try to force the issue, to blunt the ICJ decision. if the ICJ rules in Serbia's favour (which I believe any impartial court would - impartial being the operative word) that will be the final deathknell for Kosovo, whether the EU, US of albo's say otherwise, they ALL know the impact of that decision.

And to finally lay the albo argument to rest about UNSCR 1244 stating that there would be negotiations which would decide the fate of Kosovo, the fact is there was no negotiation. Ahtisaari (and the US and EU - and only this lot) by his own admission had already decided that Kosovo should be independent. To approach Serbia from day 1 and say Kosovo should be independent so let's talk about Serbs rights within kosovo, well that isn't a negotiation or discussion. It's an order, an ultimatum.

No doubt the argument at the ICj will hinge around the idea of finalising the status of Kosovo. The albo's will no doubt try to say that it was a choice between being independent or not, whereas Serbia will argue that it was a choice as to what status kosovo held within Serbia.

Any Albanian who interprets UNSCR 1244 as allowing independence is either stupid or looking at the resolution in very rose tinted spectacles.

this is a legal battle the the EU and US want to win so they can claim trepca and it's huge coal reserves, Kosovo Albanians to satisfy their aggressive nationalism, and Serbia because Kosovo legally and morally belongs to it.

"Serbia can't prove ownership"???? Is this man crazy?? Everything historic building or document is SERBIAN, despite Albanian efforts to hijack Serbia history and make it their own!!

Kosovo je Srbija

I implore the K Albanians next election to get rid of this clown. The man couldn't hold an argument if it were given to him in a bag with handles.

"historical"?

-- History is always normative, and judging from the nature of Albanian collective and historical memory, is full of consciously overlooked events. I can make a historical claim to America's authority over the Philippines. Russia can make a claim to authority over Alaska. Germany can make a claim to Pommerania and Silesia.

"legal and constitutional"

-- If that were the case, Kosovo would already be in the UN and Serbia would be forced to recognize before further integration took place. Obviously 130 countries officially do not think so, and large swaths of populations in the countries that have recognized also do not believe it. One cannot claim legal right when one needs the overt help of the international community to

a) speak on its own behalf in international organizations it is not a member of

b) provide economic assistance to prop up an economy with little to no infrastructure or self sustainability

c) provide internal security to protect people within the region from attacking each other, as well as provide enough of an incentive for forces outside the region (Belgrade, Presevo, Tetovo, and Tirana) from deciding anything funny.

Kosovo has yet to meet even the basic requirements of sovereign statehood. Its laws and constitution are largely designed by the EU. Furthermore the EU is making overriding decisions with Belgrade.

If Sejdiu's lucky, the ICJ will recognize Kosovo as an international mandate at best, similar to that of Bosnia. And in reality, that's good enough for the average Albanian in Kosovo who is more interested in improving his/her standard of living.

That's right tell them Mr President. They all should know the truth about who will win the case. After murdering 12 000 K.albanians Serbia has no case at all.

Fairy tales are for children

Actually WE DONT care about the ICJ ruling, but if it is negative (Which I doubt it will) will set a precedent on how countries can occupy land, some decades later commit genocide and want to ethnically cleans autochtonous nation from their land and when they get defeated they still expect to live together or rule them.

"historical, legal and constitutional"

Legally, historically and constitutionaly, Albania was created in 1912. I guess there was no history before that...

Even IF the court ruled in favor of the armed terrorist actions conducted by albanians, then supported by a so called defensive alliance that has ZERO need for it's continued existence, so what.

The ultimate problem is albanians need SERBIA to bless this amputation of it's land...and that just isn't going to happen. Thus, you will have an angry, more powerful neighbor, hell bent on your demise, with powerful allies unwilling to bend in either the UN or EU. Deal with it.

You may have the Americans for now, but history has proven them to be a fly by wire ally. Just look at Vietnam, Panama...or most recently, IRAQ and Saddam. I bet he never thought he'd hang by the end of a US Rope back in 1990 especially after his 8 year US sponsored war with IRAN.

This chicken farmer should stick to what he knows best - and it isn't international law. Albanians are fleeing Kosovo and Albania any chance they get - he should work on job creation - and leave the legal work to people that understand it.

(sj, 11 November 2009 22:46)


Serbia killed all those 12 000 K.albanians and that is no secret. There are footage,proof and witness on massacres wich were done by serbian paramilitary forces. This including children and women. And if Serbia diden't kill any innocent civilans then why all those massgraves ín Serbia ? Or all those warcriminals wich you have send to Haag from the President to the simple soldier ?

Nato diden't bomb any albanian civilans disregard the tractor convoy wich was an isolated incident. Nato and US is albanian friends and we woulden't have a state or lives for that matter if Nato diden't intervened and backed us up. As for the Israel dude he only makes excuse for his wrongdoings in Gaza and lebanon. He said 'european countrys' killed 10 000'. Have you forgoten Serbia is a european country ? His comment is confusing and sends no clear messege. And there is nothing in the comment wich sayes that he talks about Kosovo.

Or forget Kosovo for one second and just think how many bosnian muslims were killed in Bosnia by serbian paramilitary forces ? Are you still denying ?


As for the ICJ it is just delay for Serbia to save face. It dosen't matter in who's favor the ICJ rules on because in the end Kosovo will still be independent from Serbia. Is there wrelly a chance for Serbia to occupy Kosovo wich is populated by 2 million albanians against their will ? Don't forget that we 2 million albanians have choosen not to be in the same state as Serbia and there is nothing Serbia,ICJ or Russia can do to change that. Not even if legality was on Serbian side there would be no chance. Kosovo is and will stay independent and that's it.

Peggy,

So as you claim here you have a churches so you claim Kosovo. Interesting many Spanish build churches in South America maybe they will claim those countries as well.

Oh And one of most beautiful churches ANASofia in Istambul i forgot Turkey will be under Italian rule soon.

So in court you will say hey we have churches they cant leave .

"Actually WE DONT care about the ICJ ruling, but if it is negative (Which I doubt it will) will set a precedent on how countries can occupy land, some decades later commit genocide and want to ethnically cleans autochtonous nation from their land and when they get defeated they still expect to live together or rule them."
(PRN, 11 November 2009 15:05)

Actually it's the other way around. If Serbia wins it will prevent any group of people within a state having the right to annex territory and claim independence.

If Kosovo wins it will enable separatist groups across the world to use it as a precedent to proclaim independence and set new boundaries by force and global political alliances.

Now let's guess which of these outcomes would best suit all nations around the world? Or which most would fear?

Having their sovereign boundaries threatened by independence seeking groups, or supporting minorities in stripping away territory and creating new states?

It's really a no brainer.

"Serbia can't prove ownership"???? Is this man crazy?? Everything historic building or document is SERBIAN, despite Albanian efforts to hijack Serbia history and make it their own!!

Very Ironic, Albanias have their own History which serbia tires to undermnine for its own benefit for their claims on Illyrian lands,

FACT: Serbians along with their other slavs migrated to the Balkans around 6th centry BCE.

Can anyone find me a single documented fact of Albanian migration in the Ballkans? (dont bother it does not exist)

Albanians are the descandents of Ilyrians who were a number of Indo-european Tribes, the modern Albanian language is proved to be a Indo-European with no distinct realtives,

Serbians on the other hand can trace their slavic roots all the way to Siberia.

Serbia would have still kept Kosovo or as i call it (Dardania) if they were what they really claim to be " A just, peaceful, International law loving, state.

Wow, Mr Sejdiu being more diplomatic than any Serb political leader out there.
I wonder why he does not need to state that he wont accapt the ICJ decision in case its against Kosovo.

The rediculoua thing is that it was Serbia that wanted the confirmation that they were wrong, maybe it would take a little weight of MR Vuks and Tadic's back? Than again the only tool Serbia has to play with is delay, if thats your hammer, everything becomes a nail.

I find all the comments on ICJ speculation and Kosovo independence a bit primature. However if New Zealand have a judge in ICJ than we can assume that there just might be bias and a decision made on behalf of NZ judge. Lets hope not and he keeps his independent views. This goes for all the countries making a last minute decision on Kosovo independence.

tick tock

that is the clock that Jeremic knows will signal the fall of Serbias claim on Kosovo. It was made on purpose. He wanted this becasue he knew he could not win it. Now he has excuse"even the court said so"

im sure the ICJ will rule in kosovos favor.but also if it dont rule in kosovos favor we dont care about them.we have the most powerful states behind us (usa,uk,d,fr,it) they will never derecognize kosovo because this is not possible anymore.im sure also if icj rules in serbias favor no one country will derecognize kosovo and the great country USA will show wo is really in power in this world and will force more countrys to recognize kosovo.

That's right tell them Mr President. They all should know the truth about who will win the case. After murdering 12 000 K.albanians Serbia has no case at all.
(Demi, 11 November 2009 15:04)


Serbia did not kill all of the 12,000 Kosovars, it was your US/EU allies that bombed the crap out of Kosovo – check out what Ehud Olmert said in 2006 about NATO’s bombing in 1999 when Israel was rebuked for taking action against Hezbola:

“where do they get the right lecture Israel?” “European countries killed 10,000 civilians and none of those countries had been a target of missiles”. Now pay very close attention to those words…..European countries killed 10,000.

The rest were terrorists that were killed legitimately by Serbian armed forces. How long do you think your beloved US would tolerate your terrorism? Two minutes before you’d be wiped off the planet.

The ICJ is in a dilemma; if it rules in favour of secession international law goes out the window and the value of the ICJ will be considered worthless. Plus every little group that has problem will be seeking their own state. If is does not then this will create legal grounds for Serbia to claim compensation from all countries that recognised Kosovo

There are rumours coming out of the US that certain elements in the administration wish to extricate themselves from this mess and perhaps a ruling in Serbia’s favour is a way out and a deal could be made.

Historical, legal and constitutional arguments in K-Albanian favour??

You didn't manage to burn all the churches and monasteries. Some are still there as proof of Serbian ownership of Kosovo for centuries now. Where is any evidence of your ownership? What do you have? A church built in honour of Mother Teresa? Very historic indeed.
Claims that Serbian churches and monasteries are actually Albanian? Only you believe that one.

Now let's guess which of these outcomes would best suit all nations around the world? Or which most would fear?

Having their sovereign boundaries threatened by independence seeking groups, or supporting minorities in stripping away territory and creating new states?

It's really a no brainer.
(kate, 11 November 2009 23:23
If it is phrased that way you would be right, but lets phrase it this way.
If a country brutalizes, tortures, murders, and tries to ethnically cleanse a population from their land ignoring 4 UNSC resolutions to end the violence. Forcing an international sponsored bombing campaign to end the brutality, and 10 years of UN protectorate status inorder to insure these people have the basic of human rights. Should the country be given back the land and control over the people without showing any sign of remorse.
Or should an oppressed population be afforded the ability to enjoy a life free of that oppression for themselves and their offspring. Then yes the answer is a no brainer.

Radoslav,


First i dont have any land I am not from Kosovo nor Albanian I just helped there after the war.

So u admit you do not care about Serbian old churches you care About Trepca here you go, clear and simple.

Radoslave,

Yes there are Albanian Relics in Kosovo just outside Prishtina.

I have seen them on my visit there last year, now I am sure u understand that Majority in this territory is Albanian so this land belongs to them.

As well there are many Relics of Native Amreicans in USA, As well of Turkish in Balkans and Roman etc etc.

My point is Relics do not make it your land People do, This Kosovo Albanians will build their life there and u cant get ride of them.

I been Asking Serbs this Question as outsider tell me how will u Bring Kosovo under Serbia what is the plan? How will you convince this people to say ok we will go under Serbia. (WAR? are u sure u have the power for this)


Even if u bring back 200K serbs which i think they should do still majority in this territory is Albanians and they should rule it.

For years, the Yugoslav and the Serbian governments taxed the rest of Serbia to help subsidize and increase the standard of living of the K-Albs. So please, Team Albania, stop with the crying of how you've been mistreated by the Serbs. If you truly want peace, stop believing that you are the victim and try to cooperate and discuss peaceful, long-term solutions with your neighbors- and stop agitating the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. "Idiots" keep banging their heads against walls, thinking something is going to change- rational people try to develop and find long-term solutions.
(Rick, 12 November 2009 14:02)

Wrong. For years Serbia received billions from the west and invested almost nothing in Kosovo. Take a look at Kosovo roads and other public investments from that era and compare them to what was invested in Serbia. Did Kosovo receive 1/4 of this aid, as they represented 1/4 of the population of Serbia?

Indeed Serbia received high % of GDP from other republics like Croatia and Slovenia. They always complained about it at the time.

You want to negotiate? Why didn't you negotiate when we begged you for 10 years to do so under Rugova? Or you just wanted to see if you could kill and cleanse k-alb serbian style first? Oh yeah, it wasn't you it was NATO, or maybe the marsians who did the killing and the cleansing.

Thanks but no thanks, we will take a chance alone cause even you know, Serbia can give no guarantees that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years and start killing and slaughtering again.

No people in their sane mind will want to live under Serbia so well known for indicted war criminals, and mass grave digging. We will never trust our lives to Serbia again. We better die fighting for independence or suffer whatever evil is to be suffered under the status uncertanty than be slaughtered like sheeps from your criminals.

ATM - Are there any ancient Albanian cultural relics in Albania? If there are, then why aren't these same relics in Kosovo? Why are they only Serbian? Asfor South America, there is plenty of evidence of South American tribes living there for thousands of years. The same simply isn't true for Albanians, and as for the idea that you are all descendents of Illyrians, that's just BS. it's just a great excuse to try to justify your claim to the entire Balkan peninsula. NOBODY has shown and proven that the Illyrians are related to any of the current populations in the Balkans even though you are doing your best to try to fabricate such "evidence".

pss - I have no doubt that Serbs committed war crimes in Bosnia and Kosovo but the difference between Serbia and Bosnia + Kosovo is that Serbia has the guts to face upto the facts and start prosecuting these criminals. Bosnia has prosecuted one or two of it's own but the Albanians have prosecuted nobody. To believe that Albanians were like sheep to a slaughter and that NO albanian is guilty of war crimes is just a joke. Can you explain why no Albanian has been arrested yet and tried for their crimes? No albanian here seems to want to answer questions like this, maybe because you see your ultra nationalist stance through rose tinted spectacles and you can do no wrong.

As for 12,000 albanian dead - "Serbia killed all those 12 000 K.albanians and that is no secret." if it's no secret, then I'm sure there must be some proof, and i'm sure some resourceful albo will be able to find a link to a UN report which states categorically that SPECIFICALLY 12,000 dead were Albanian. Another surprise - NO Albanian has yet managed to back up such ridiculous claims yet! Now, I wonder why that is?

And if by any miracle you somehow mange to achieve independence legitimately (i.e. a UN seat agreed to by Serbia - like i said, it'd have to be a miracle), then I think to be a member of "such a democratic and just group of nations" (that's what you albo's always call these countries), i.e. the EU, then it should be a condition of your entry into the EU to fully prosecute all your war criminals (with the list being agreed upon by Serbia). Only that way will you have demonstrated that you are a competent "country" in every sense of the word.

ATM - So your basic argument is that if you are the majority then you have the right to be independent?

So who, and how, do you decide the boundaries of the territory which should be given independence? Is it arbitrary and if it isn't then who has the power to decide on the border which wants to become independent?

using your argument the Serbs in the north should break away from Kosovo and in the process taking away most of Kosovo's economic assets. no doubt the albo's in southern Serbia will do the same, the greeks in albo land, the Serbs in bosnia, the Serbs in Croatia, etc, etc. If that is the new international rule then fair enough, but the international community can't have one "special" rule so that the EU and US steal Serbia's assets - Trepca and it's billions of tons of coal, and then expect the rest of the world to operate with different rules.

Either Serbia will retain ownership of Kosovo whether the Albanians like it or not via the ICJ and then the EU and US will restart negotiations with Serbia, or the ICJ will grant Kosovo independence in which case Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo will lose more land and Serbia a little more in the south. What's good for the goose is for the gander.

If you do attain independence it'll be galling to see western companies knocking on Serbia's door or the newly independent Serbian Kosovo to negotiate contracts for Trepca. you might have a little more land for Albania but all the real assets will reside with the Serbs, hahahahah, enjoy.

No people in their sane mind will want to live under Serbia so well known for indicted war criminals, and mass grave digging. We will never trust our lives to Serbia again. We better die fighting for independence or suffer whatever evil is to be suffered under the status uncertanty than be slaughtered like sheeps from your criminals.
(Denis, 12 November 2009 17:00)

It's amazing here how "Team Albania" can distort not only the truth, but also your future. So, you would rather live under your own criminal elements, which the entire world knows about, rather than try to intelligently discuss a solution???

(Demi, 12 November 2009 03:13)


Once again you Albanians refuse to believe what’s in front of you. Ehud Olmert made that statement in a moment of rage about NATO countries, but people like you refuse to believe it because it’s too painful. The greatest critics of Israel’s offensive were EU countries, not Serbia. Read his entire comments.

The massacres were committed by your KLA forces with the help of the US/EU with a man called William Walker, a CIA operative attached to the so called peace monitoring group in Kosovo.

The Americans dropped bombs all over the place, they didn’t care what they hit because that’s how they are trained – carpet bombing and if civilians are killed blame it on the other guy. Look at WW11 and Vietnam, the strategy has not changed. There is an old saying if the US wants to bomb Washington you had better move out of Los Angeles – during WW11 the British did night time air raids because the US would drop bombs miles from their targets.

Remember the 40 Albanians supposedly killed by Serbs which triggered action against Serbia, well it was a pro-Serbian village that was liquidated by KLA with Walker verifying that it was the Serbs. There were many others that were blamed on Serbs, but unfortunately, they were done by your KLA.

I don’t deny that there may have been opportunists as part of paramilitary groups that were there to rob and steal and leave no witnesses. Unfortunately, it happens.

The Hague Tribunal is not a proper court. It best described as a Kangaroo court established by the US to incarcerate Serbs to punish them for making the US look impotent for several years – imagine the only world superpower pinned down by 12 million people. US diplomats running away from Karadzic so that they do not accidently run into him – it bordered on comical. The tribunal has nothing to do about justice because any first year legal student can tell you that. The judiciary serving on the tribunal are the dregs of the legal fraternity. How many have you come across that are world renowned jurists – no one!

Bosnia was a blood bath and there is no denying that fact. Paramilitary groups worked on both sides and there are no saints amongst anyone.

As far as the IJC is concerned it does mean a lot which way it swings. You’re precious US is concerned – remember all use the ICJ to settle disputes and if that institution is rendered useless then all falls apart. The US will in the end do a deal and your Albanians will be sold out.

Kosovo is not independent until Serbia says so and it will remain in limbo for ever if so desired. There is no need to occupy Kosovo, Serbia has to wait and the Albanians will leave – no jobs, nothing. How many companies have opened factories in Kosovo to date – no one!

Radoslav and Peggy,

Here its a book you should Read

Noel Malcolm Kosovo short Story it mite help.

Can you please answer me this question:

How do you expect them to go under Serbia now?

Again I am not Albanian just this region seems Europes version of Palestine.

As for the part that Albanians want Trepca I am sure they do, but if they would ask me i would say let them go its not worth all the gold there x 1000 to have to keep this going.

No one seems to be able to live in this part together but so did Scandinavians and now are known for human rights.

I think Serbs and Albanians have much more in common but their history to each with own myths its preventing

Sejdiu added that Serbia "could not prove its ownership of Kosovo", and that "even the Serbian legal team is aware of this", writes Priština-based Albanian language daily Koha Ditore.

I always heard that they were still living in another century, but it looks like it is even worst than that...
Let me see what we can historically claim from Italy, France, Germany, at the end we have a bit of everything.... what a clown!

This is all "smoke and mirrors" by the K-Albs and the West. Everytime I hear how badly the "poor K-Albs" were treated under Milosevic in the 80's and 90's, I think back to all the violence and agitation by the K-Albs in that period- shooting innocent Serbs, raping Orthodox nuns, desecration of Holy places- to the point that the average K-Serb needed to leave Kosovo just for their own safety. So when the Serbian police were forced to come in to preserve law and order (as would ANY government do), the K-Albs would cry foul play. For years, the Yugoslav and the Serbian governments taxed the rest of Serbia to help subsidize and increase the standard of living of the K-Albs. So please, Team Albania, stop with the crying of how you've been mistreated by the Serbs. If you truly want peace, stop believing that you are the victim and try to cooperate and discuss peaceful, long-term solutions with your neighbors- and stop agitating the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. "Idiots" keep banging their heads against walls, thinking something is going to change- rational people try to develop and find long-term solutions.

A lot of you want to reduce the Independence of Kosovo to a simple secession. The facts are the international community had to step in and force the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo inorder to stop the massacre.
Kosovo has functioned under the auspices of a UN/EU protectorate for 10 years. This is a status that cannot be sustained forever.
To reduce this to a simple secessionist movement, absolutely is not only false but proves the point. That these people view Kosovars(or mainly the Albanian population) as less than Serbians and do not deserve the same rights and freedoms as their "superiors".
This is my support for Independence pure and simple. I do not care what happened 500, 1000, or a million years ago.
If you note, what vocal support Serbia receives is for a negotiated settlement, not, to return Kosovo to Serbia's control.
Why would anyone think that even a ICJ opinion totally in Serbia's favor (which will not happen) would stimulate new negotiations. The things Kosovo does not have now UN and other international relationships would not be available as a part of Serbia.
Kosovo does not need diplomatic relations with Russia or China to survive, only to become a UN member.

Yes, exactly. Churches and monasteries dating back centuries which proves Serbian existence and ownership of Kosovo.

What are you going to offer as proof?
(Peggy, 12 November 2009 13:56)

2 millions albanians living there. Continuity in time and space through centuries of an etcnically comapact population. After all, the reality on the ground. Churches is not enough. You find greek monuments everywhere (Marseille-France, Sicily-Italy etc,,,etc..) but we never hear greek claiming those area.

Peggy, it was no suprise to get no response fom ATM. The only albanian to put any decent counter argument to me has been Nikshala but you'll have to see our discussion on one of the other threads.

and an answer to ATM in ATM's style: all the albanians care about is trepca because if the serbs were so bad the albanians would be glad to get rid of them by agreeing to remain a part of serbia. the fact that you want to land grab this particular piece of land shows that you want trepca as well. like i said, this attempted secession has nothing to do with democracy but is a nationalist ploy to create a greater albania.

ATM - If you're not an albanian then i'm species 168 from Star Trek.

But to give you the benefit of doubt, here's a word of advice - don't waste your time reading Noel Malcolm. He's widely known to write whatever his European or US masters tell him to and has been widely discredited by his academic peers, especially those at Oxford University.

So in court you will say hey we have churches they cant leave .
(ATM, 12 November 2009 01:00)

Yes, exactly. Churches and monasteries dating back centuries which proves Serbian existence and ownership of Kosovo.

What are you going to offer as proof?

We should adopt a similar strategy as Israel has towards the west bank/gaza. as Kosovo is Serbia's Holy land and it's full of muslims, building "secure" serb settlements is the only viable option.

"Yes there are Albanian Relics in Kosovo just outside Prishtina."

(ATM, 12 November 2009 11:50)
Albanian or Thraco-Illyrian????

"Even if u bring back 200K serbs which i think they should do still majority in this territory is Albanians and they should rule it."
(ATM, 12 November 2009 11:50)

So?? Serbs consists majoriti in Republic of Srbska, Armenians in Karabakh, Kurds in Kurdistan - so is any international law who give them right to secession??

Radoslav, ATM did not even come close to answering your question. I suppose you didn't expect him to.

The only thing he did was throw a question in your direction. Well, when you don't have constructive arguments you don't allow yourself to even attempt to answer questions but rather throw as many questions in the other direction as you can.

ATM, please address issues put to you by Radoslav. I would love to see how you answer him.

SJ,

You been waiting on this for long time Albanians leaving :).

you do not understand our family structure:

1) yes many will go work in EU or USA but they all send portion home and also build their home for return there.

2) Kosovo is a country for almost 2 years and Eco crises was not the best time for it, hey we lived under Serbian rule with paralel structures we will do much better alone.

I think more Serbs will leave Kosovo, if Belgrade stops giving double salary to live in Kosovo they will be all gone.

But wait wait :)

ATM, I can suggest a lot of reading material to you as well.
I have heard and read all your arguments before. I don't need to read one more line from anywhere else. The propaganda for the last 17 years coming out of Balkans has been intense and incredible. I have seen and heard it all in favour of your side and Croatian side but not much has has been heard in favour of Serbs in the mainstream media. Well, not in some mainstream media but if you look at media not coming from CNN or BBC and the like you will get a sense of what the other side went through and who committed horrible crimes on them as well.

It's not popular politics to tell the whole truth so one has to go looking for it. I did and I found so much information that the world needs to see.

No use listing any of it here for you because you don't want to know this. You only want to see and tell the world how Serbs were evil and did unspeakable things and resembled the Nazis. This "truth" has served you so well up to now so why would you even bother to look for the whole truth.

So don't recomment any reading material to me. I have seen it all and more.

That's right tell them Mr President. They all should know the truth about who will win the case. After murdering 12 000 K.albanians Serbia has no case at all.

Actually WE DONT care about the ICJ ruling, but if it is negative (Which I doubt it will) will set a precedent on how countries can occupy land, some decades later commit genocide and want to ethnically cleans autochtonous nation from their land and when they get defeated they still expect to live together or rule them.

Wow, Mr Sejdiu being more diplomatic than any Serb political leader out there.
I wonder why he does not need to state that he wont accapt the ICJ decision in case its against Kosovo.

The rediculoua thing is that it was Serbia that wanted the confirmation that they were wrong, maybe it would take a little weight of MR Vuks and Tadic's back? Than again the only tool Serbia has to play with is delay, if thats your hammer, everything becomes a nail.

"Serbia can't prove ownership"???? Is this man crazy?? Everything historic building or document is SERBIAN, despite Albanian efforts to hijack Serbia history and make it their own!!

Kosovo je Srbija

"historical, legal and constitutional arguments"

????
1. In all history were not on the territory of Kosovo any "independent" Kosovo state (except medieval serbian state of Brankovići)
2. Is UDI legal act as international law (inc. UN Resolution 1244) show, that Kosovo is part of Republic of Serbia??
3. Give Constitution of Republic of Serbia right for Kosovo seccesion??

So - is any historical, legal or constitutional arguments for support this illegal attempt. Only - brutal power of USA/NATO invasion.

Fairy tales are for children

"Sejdiu added that Serbia "could not prove its ownership of Kosovo", and that "even the Serbian legal team is aware of this", writes Priština-based Albanian language daily Koha Ditore."

Was something lost in the translation here? Either that or Sejdiu has completely lost his sanity. Assuming the translation is correct then he only has to read UNSCR 1244 which states NUMEROUS times that Kosovo is a part of Serbia, so what more proof does he need?

P.S to all the albo's don't waste your time replying that UNSCR 1244 states that you have the right to self determination, because it doesn't. The ONE line that you and your US and EU masters often quote is taken out of context. ANYBODY with any intelligence who is impartial and fully reads UNSCR 1244 would conclude that Kosovo is an inalienable part of Serbia. The reality is that Sejdiu KNOWS this. This is why the EU, US and Albanians have been working so hard to get UN recognition. They are desperate to try to force the issue, to blunt the ICJ decision. if the ICJ rules in Serbia's favour (which I believe any impartial court would - impartial being the operative word) that will be the final deathknell for Kosovo, whether the EU, US of albo's say otherwise, they ALL know the impact of that decision.

And to finally lay the albo argument to rest about UNSCR 1244 stating that there would be negotiations which would decide the fate of Kosovo, the fact is there was no negotiation. Ahtisaari (and the US and EU - and only this lot) by his own admission had already decided that Kosovo should be independent. To approach Serbia from day 1 and say Kosovo should be independent so let's talk about Serbs rights within kosovo, well that isn't a negotiation or discussion. It's an order, an ultimatum.

No doubt the argument at the ICj will hinge around the idea of finalising the status of Kosovo. The albo's will no doubt try to say that it was a choice between being independent or not, whereas Serbia will argue that it was a choice as to what status kosovo held within Serbia.

Any Albanian who interprets UNSCR 1244 as allowing independence is either stupid or looking at the resolution in very rose tinted spectacles.

this is a legal battle the the EU and US want to win so they can claim trepca and it's huge coal reserves, Kosovo Albanians to satisfy their aggressive nationalism, and Serbia because Kosovo legally and morally belongs to it.

I implore the K Albanians next election to get rid of this clown. The man couldn't hold an argument if it were given to him in a bag with handles.

"historical"?

-- History is always normative, and judging from the nature of Albanian collective and historical memory, is full of consciously overlooked events. I can make a historical claim to America's authority over the Philippines. Russia can make a claim to authority over Alaska. Germany can make a claim to Pommerania and Silesia.

"legal and constitutional"

-- If that were the case, Kosovo would already be in the UN and Serbia would be forced to recognize before further integration took place. Obviously 130 countries officially do not think so, and large swaths of populations in the countries that have recognized also do not believe it. One cannot claim legal right when one needs the overt help of the international community to

a) speak on its own behalf in international organizations it is not a member of

b) provide economic assistance to prop up an economy with little to no infrastructure or self sustainability

c) provide internal security to protect people within the region from attacking each other, as well as provide enough of an incentive for forces outside the region (Belgrade, Presevo, Tetovo, and Tirana) from deciding anything funny.

Kosovo has yet to meet even the basic requirements of sovereign statehood. Its laws and constitution are largely designed by the EU. Furthermore the EU is making overriding decisions with Belgrade.

If Sejdiu's lucky, the ICJ will recognize Kosovo as an international mandate at best, similar to that of Bosnia. And in reality, that's good enough for the average Albanian in Kosovo who is more interested in improving his/her standard of living.

Even IF the court ruled in favor of the armed terrorist actions conducted by albanians, then supported by a so called defensive alliance that has ZERO need for it's continued existence, so what.

The ultimate problem is albanians need SERBIA to bless this amputation of it's land...and that just isn't going to happen. Thus, you will have an angry, more powerful neighbor, hell bent on your demise, with powerful allies unwilling to bend in either the UN or EU. Deal with it.

You may have the Americans for now, but history has proven them to be a fly by wire ally. Just look at Vietnam, Panama...or most recently, IRAQ and Saddam. I bet he never thought he'd hang by the end of a US Rope back in 1990 especially after his 8 year US sponsored war with IRAN.

This chicken farmer should stick to what he knows best - and it isn't international law. Albanians are fleeing Kosovo and Albania any chance they get - he should work on job creation - and leave the legal work to people that understand it.

im sure the ICJ will rule in kosovos favor.but also if it dont rule in kosovos favor we dont care about them.we have the most powerful states behind us (usa,uk,d,fr,it) they will never derecognize kosovo because this is not possible anymore.im sure also if icj rules in serbias favor no one country will derecognize kosovo and the great country USA will show wo is really in power in this world and will force more countrys to recognize kosovo.

"Actually WE DONT care about the ICJ ruling, but if it is negative (Which I doubt it will) will set a precedent on how countries can occupy land, some decades later commit genocide and want to ethnically cleans autochtonous nation from their land and when they get defeated they still expect to live together or rule them."
(PRN, 11 November 2009 15:05)

Actually it's the other way around. If Serbia wins it will prevent any group of people within a state having the right to annex territory and claim independence.

If Kosovo wins it will enable separatist groups across the world to use it as a precedent to proclaim independence and set new boundaries by force and global political alliances.

Now let's guess which of these outcomes would best suit all nations around the world? Or which most would fear?

Having their sovereign boundaries threatened by independence seeking groups, or supporting minorities in stripping away territory and creating new states?

It's really a no brainer.

"Serbia can't prove ownership"???? Is this man crazy?? Everything historic building or document is SERBIAN, despite Albanian efforts to hijack Serbia history and make it their own!!

Very Ironic, Albanias have their own History which serbia tires to undermnine for its own benefit for their claims on Illyrian lands,

FACT: Serbians along with their other slavs migrated to the Balkans around 6th centry BCE.

Can anyone find me a single documented fact of Albanian migration in the Ballkans? (dont bother it does not exist)

Albanians are the descandents of Ilyrians who were a number of Indo-european Tribes, the modern Albanian language is proved to be a Indo-European with no distinct realtives,

Serbians on the other hand can trace their slavic roots all the way to Siberia.

Serbia would have still kept Kosovo or as i call it (Dardania) if they were what they really claim to be " A just, peaceful, International law loving, state.

tick tock

that is the clock that Jeremic knows will signal the fall of Serbias claim on Kosovo. It was made on purpose. He wanted this becasue he knew he could not win it. Now he has excuse"even the court said so"

"historical, legal and constitutional"

Legally, historically and constitutionaly, Albania was created in 1912. I guess there was no history before that...

Historical, legal and constitutional arguments in K-Albanian favour??

You didn't manage to burn all the churches and monasteries. Some are still there as proof of Serbian ownership of Kosovo for centuries now. Where is any evidence of your ownership? What do you have? A church built in honour of Mother Teresa? Very historic indeed.
Claims that Serbian churches and monasteries are actually Albanian? Only you believe that one.

I find all the comments on ICJ speculation and Kosovo independence a bit primature. However if New Zealand have a judge in ICJ than we can assume that there just might be bias and a decision made on behalf of NZ judge. Lets hope not and he keeps his independent views. This goes for all the countries making a last minute decision on Kosovo independence.

That's right tell them Mr President. They all should know the truth about who will win the case. After murdering 12 000 K.albanians Serbia has no case at all.
(Demi, 11 November 2009 15:04)


Serbia did not kill all of the 12,000 Kosovars, it was your US/EU allies that bombed the crap out of Kosovo – check out what Ehud Olmert said in 2006 about NATO’s bombing in 1999 when Israel was rebuked for taking action against Hezbola:

“where do they get the right lecture Israel?” “European countries killed 10,000 civilians and none of those countries had been a target of missiles”. Now pay very close attention to those words…..European countries killed 10,000.

The rest were terrorists that were killed legitimately by Serbian armed forces. How long do you think your beloved US would tolerate your terrorism? Two minutes before you’d be wiped off the planet.

The ICJ is in a dilemma; if it rules in favour of secession international law goes out the window and the value of the ICJ will be considered worthless. Plus every little group that has problem will be seeking their own state. If is does not then this will create legal grounds for Serbia to claim compensation from all countries that recognised Kosovo

There are rumours coming out of the US that certain elements in the administration wish to extricate themselves from this mess and perhaps a ruling in Serbia’s favour is a way out and a deal could be made.

"Yes there are Albanian Relics in Kosovo just outside Prishtina."

(ATM, 12 November 2009 11:50)
Albanian or Thraco-Illyrian????

"Even if u bring back 200K serbs which i think they should do still majority in this territory is Albanians and they should rule it."
(ATM, 12 November 2009 11:50)

So?? Serbs consists majoriti in Republic of Srbska, Armenians in Karabakh, Kurds in Kurdistan - so is any international law who give them right to secession??

ATM - So your basic argument is that if you are the majority then you have the right to be independent?

So who, and how, do you decide the boundaries of the territory which should be given independence? Is it arbitrary and if it isn't then who has the power to decide on the border which wants to become independent?

using your argument the Serbs in the north should break away from Kosovo and in the process taking away most of Kosovo's economic assets. no doubt the albo's in southern Serbia will do the same, the greeks in albo land, the Serbs in bosnia, the Serbs in Croatia, etc, etc. If that is the new international rule then fair enough, but the international community can't have one "special" rule so that the EU and US steal Serbia's assets - Trepca and it's billions of tons of coal, and then expect the rest of the world to operate with different rules.

Either Serbia will retain ownership of Kosovo whether the Albanians like it or not via the ICJ and then the EU and US will restart negotiations with Serbia, or the ICJ will grant Kosovo independence in which case Croatia, Bosnia, and Kosovo will lose more land and Serbia a little more in the south. What's good for the goose is for the gander.

If you do attain independence it'll be galling to see western companies knocking on Serbia's door or the newly independent Serbian Kosovo to negotiate contracts for Trepca. you might have a little more land for Albania but all the real assets will reside with the Serbs, hahahahah, enjoy.

Now let's guess which of these outcomes would best suit all nations around the world? Or which most would fear?

Having their sovereign boundaries threatened by independence seeking groups, or supporting minorities in stripping away territory and creating new states?

It's really a no brainer.
(kate, 11 November 2009 23:23
If it is phrased that way you would be right, but lets phrase it this way.
If a country brutalizes, tortures, murders, and tries to ethnically cleanse a population from their land ignoring 4 UNSC resolutions to end the violence. Forcing an international sponsored bombing campaign to end the brutality, and 10 years of UN protectorate status inorder to insure these people have the basic of human rights. Should the country be given back the land and control over the people without showing any sign of remorse.
Or should an oppressed population be afforded the ability to enjoy a life free of that oppression for themselves and their offspring. Then yes the answer is a no brainer.

(sj, 11 November 2009 22:46)


Serbia killed all those 12 000 K.albanians and that is no secret. There are footage,proof and witness on massacres wich were done by serbian paramilitary forces. This including children and women. And if Serbia diden't kill any innocent civilans then why all those massgraves ín Serbia ? Or all those warcriminals wich you have send to Haag from the President to the simple soldier ?

Nato diden't bomb any albanian civilans disregard the tractor convoy wich was an isolated incident. Nato and US is albanian friends and we woulden't have a state or lives for that matter if Nato diden't intervened and backed us up. As for the Israel dude he only makes excuse for his wrongdoings in Gaza and lebanon. He said 'european countrys' killed 10 000'. Have you forgoten Serbia is a european country ? His comment is confusing and sends no clear messege. And there is nothing in the comment wich sayes that he talks about Kosovo.

Or forget Kosovo for one second and just think how many bosnian muslims were killed in Bosnia by serbian paramilitary forces ? Are you still denying ?


As for the ICJ it is just delay for Serbia to save face. It dosen't matter in who's favor the ICJ rules on because in the end Kosovo will still be independent from Serbia. Is there wrelly a chance for Serbia to occupy Kosovo wich is populated by 2 million albanians against their will ? Don't forget that we 2 million albanians have choosen not to be in the same state as Serbia and there is nothing Serbia,ICJ or Russia can do to change that. Not even if legality was on Serbian side there would be no chance. Kosovo is and will stay independent and that's it.

Sejdiu added that Serbia "could not prove its ownership of Kosovo", and that "even the Serbian legal team is aware of this", writes Priština-based Albanian language daily Koha Ditore.

I always heard that they were still living in another century, but it looks like it is even worst than that...
Let me see what we can historically claim from Italy, France, Germany, at the end we have a bit of everything.... what a clown!

ATM - Are there any ancient Albanian cultural relics in Albania? If there are, then why aren't these same relics in Kosovo? Why are they only Serbian? Asfor South America, there is plenty of evidence of South American tribes living there for thousands of years. The same simply isn't true for Albanians, and as for the idea that you are all descendents of Illyrians, that's just BS. it's just a great excuse to try to justify your claim to the entire Balkan peninsula. NOBODY has shown and proven that the Illyrians are related to any of the current populations in the Balkans even though you are doing your best to try to fabricate such "evidence".

pss - I have no doubt that Serbs committed war crimes in Bosnia and Kosovo but the difference between Serbia and Bosnia + Kosovo is that Serbia has the guts to face upto the facts and start prosecuting these criminals. Bosnia has prosecuted one or two of it's own but the Albanians have prosecuted nobody. To believe that Albanians were like sheep to a slaughter and that NO albanian is guilty of war crimes is just a joke. Can you explain why no Albanian has been arrested yet and tried for their crimes? No albanian here seems to want to answer questions like this, maybe because you see your ultra nationalist stance through rose tinted spectacles and you can do no wrong.

As for 12,000 albanian dead - "Serbia killed all those 12 000 K.albanians and that is no secret." if it's no secret, then I'm sure there must be some proof, and i'm sure some resourceful albo will be able to find a link to a UN report which states categorically that SPECIFICALLY 12,000 dead were Albanian. Another surprise - NO Albanian has yet managed to back up such ridiculous claims yet! Now, I wonder why that is?

And if by any miracle you somehow mange to achieve independence legitimately (i.e. a UN seat agreed to by Serbia - like i said, it'd have to be a miracle), then I think to be a member of "such a democratic and just group of nations" (that's what you albo's always call these countries), i.e. the EU, then it should be a condition of your entry into the EU to fully prosecute all your war criminals (with the list being agreed upon by Serbia). Only that way will you have demonstrated that you are a competent "country" in every sense of the word.

Peggy,

So as you claim here you have a churches so you claim Kosovo. Interesting many Spanish build churches in South America maybe they will claim those countries as well.

Oh And one of most beautiful churches ANASofia in Istambul i forgot Turkey will be under Italian rule soon.

So in court you will say hey we have churches they cant leave .

For years, the Yugoslav and the Serbian governments taxed the rest of Serbia to help subsidize and increase the standard of living of the K-Albs. So please, Team Albania, stop with the crying of how you've been mistreated by the Serbs. If you truly want peace, stop believing that you are the victim and try to cooperate and discuss peaceful, long-term solutions with your neighbors- and stop agitating the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. "Idiots" keep banging their heads against walls, thinking something is going to change- rational people try to develop and find long-term solutions.
(Rick, 12 November 2009 14:02)

Wrong. For years Serbia received billions from the west and invested almost nothing in Kosovo. Take a look at Kosovo roads and other public investments from that era and compare them to what was invested in Serbia. Did Kosovo receive 1/4 of this aid, as they represented 1/4 of the population of Serbia?

Indeed Serbia received high % of GDP from other republics like Croatia and Slovenia. They always complained about it at the time.

You want to negotiate? Why didn't you negotiate when we begged you for 10 years to do so under Rugova? Or you just wanted to see if you could kill and cleanse k-alb serbian style first? Oh yeah, it wasn't you it was NATO, or maybe the marsians who did the killing and the cleansing.

Thanks but no thanks, we will take a chance alone cause even you know, Serbia can give no guarantees that another Milosevic will not come along in a few years and start killing and slaughtering again.

No people in their sane mind will want to live under Serbia so well known for indicted war criminals, and mass grave digging. We will never trust our lives to Serbia again. We better die fighting for independence or suffer whatever evil is to be suffered under the status uncertanty than be slaughtered like sheeps from your criminals.

Radoslave,

Yes there are Albanian Relics in Kosovo just outside Prishtina.

I have seen them on my visit there last year, now I am sure u understand that Majority in this territory is Albanian so this land belongs to them.

As well there are many Relics of Native Amreicans in USA, As well of Turkish in Balkans and Roman etc etc.

My point is Relics do not make it your land People do, This Kosovo Albanians will build their life there and u cant get ride of them.

I been Asking Serbs this Question as outsider tell me how will u Bring Kosovo under Serbia what is the plan? How will you convince this people to say ok we will go under Serbia. (WAR? are u sure u have the power for this)


Even if u bring back 200K serbs which i think they should do still majority in this territory is Albanians and they should rule it.

So in court you will say hey we have churches they cant leave .
(ATM, 12 November 2009 01:00)

Yes, exactly. Churches and monasteries dating back centuries which proves Serbian existence and ownership of Kosovo.

What are you going to offer as proof?

No people in their sane mind will want to live under Serbia so well known for indicted war criminals, and mass grave digging. We will never trust our lives to Serbia again. We better die fighting for independence or suffer whatever evil is to be suffered under the status uncertanty than be slaughtered like sheeps from your criminals.
(Denis, 12 November 2009 17:00)

It's amazing here how "Team Albania" can distort not only the truth, but also your future. So, you would rather live under your own criminal elements, which the entire world knows about, rather than try to intelligently discuss a solution???

(Demi, 12 November 2009 03:13)


Once again you Albanians refuse to believe what’s in front of you. Ehud Olmert made that statement in a moment of rage about NATO countries, but people like you refuse to believe it because it’s too painful. The greatest critics of Israel’s offensive were EU countries, not Serbia. Read his entire comments.

The massacres were committed by your KLA forces with the help of the US/EU with a man called William Walker, a CIA operative attached to the so called peace monitoring group in Kosovo.

The Americans dropped bombs all over the place, they didn’t care what they hit because that’s how they are trained – carpet bombing and if civilians are killed blame it on the other guy. Look at WW11 and Vietnam, the strategy has not changed. There is an old saying if the US wants to bomb Washington you had better move out of Los Angeles – during WW11 the British did night time air raids because the US would drop bombs miles from their targets.

Remember the 40 Albanians supposedly killed by Serbs which triggered action against Serbia, well it was a pro-Serbian village that was liquidated by KLA with Walker verifying that it was the Serbs. There were many others that were blamed on Serbs, but unfortunately, they were done by your KLA.

I don’t deny that there may have been opportunists as part of paramilitary groups that were there to rob and steal and leave no witnesses. Unfortunately, it happens.

The Hague Tribunal is not a proper court. It best described as a Kangaroo court established by the US to incarcerate Serbs to punish them for making the US look impotent for several years – imagine the only world superpower pinned down by 12 million people. US diplomats running away from Karadzic so that they do not accidently run into him – it bordered on comical. The tribunal has nothing to do about justice because any first year legal student can tell you that. The judiciary serving on the tribunal are the dregs of the legal fraternity. How many have you come across that are world renowned jurists – no one!

Bosnia was a blood bath and there is no denying that fact. Paramilitary groups worked on both sides and there are no saints amongst anyone.

As far as the IJC is concerned it does mean a lot which way it swings. You’re precious US is concerned – remember all use the ICJ to settle disputes and if that institution is rendered useless then all falls apart. The US will in the end do a deal and your Albanians will be sold out.

Kosovo is not independent until Serbia says so and it will remain in limbo for ever if so desired. There is no need to occupy Kosovo, Serbia has to wait and the Albanians will leave – no jobs, nothing. How many companies have opened factories in Kosovo to date – no one!

This is all "smoke and mirrors" by the K-Albs and the West. Everytime I hear how badly the "poor K-Albs" were treated under Milosevic in the 80's and 90's, I think back to all the violence and agitation by the K-Albs in that period- shooting innocent Serbs, raping Orthodox nuns, desecration of Holy places- to the point that the average K-Serb needed to leave Kosovo just for their own safety. So when the Serbian police were forced to come in to preserve law and order (as would ANY government do), the K-Albs would cry foul play. For years, the Yugoslav and the Serbian governments taxed the rest of Serbia to help subsidize and increase the standard of living of the K-Albs. So please, Team Albania, stop with the crying of how you've been mistreated by the Serbs. If you truly want peace, stop believing that you are the victim and try to cooperate and discuss peaceful, long-term solutions with your neighbors- and stop agitating the remaining Serbs in Kosovo. "Idiots" keep banging their heads against walls, thinking something is going to change- rational people try to develop and find long-term solutions.

A lot of you want to reduce the Independence of Kosovo to a simple secession. The facts are the international community had to step in and force the withdrawal of Serbian forces from Kosovo inorder to stop the massacre.
Kosovo has functioned under the auspices of a UN/EU protectorate for 10 years. This is a status that cannot be sustained forever.
To reduce this to a simple secessionist movement, absolutely is not only false but proves the point. That these people view Kosovars(or mainly the Albanian population) as less than Serbians and do not deserve the same rights and freedoms as their "superiors".
This is my support for Independence pure and simple. I do not care what happened 500, 1000, or a million years ago.
If you note, what vocal support Serbia receives is for a negotiated settlement, not, to return Kosovo to Serbia's control.
Why would anyone think that even a ICJ opinion totally in Serbia's favor (which will not happen) would stimulate new negotiations. The things Kosovo does not have now UN and other international relationships would not be available as a part of Serbia.
Kosovo does not need diplomatic relations with Russia or China to survive, only to become a UN member.

Radoslav,


First i dont have any land I am not from Kosovo nor Albanian I just helped there after the war.

So u admit you do not care about Serbian old churches you care About Trepca here you go, clear and simple.

Radoslav, ATM did not even come close to answering your question. I suppose you didn't expect him to.

The only thing he did was throw a question in your direction. Well, when you don't have constructive arguments you don't allow yourself to even attempt to answer questions but rather throw as many questions in the other direction as you can.

ATM, please address issues put to you by Radoslav. I would love to see how you answer him.

Peggy, it was no suprise to get no response fom ATM. The only albanian to put any decent counter argument to me has been Nikshala but you'll have to see our discussion on one of the other threads.

and an answer to ATM in ATM's style: all the albanians care about is trepca because if the serbs were so bad the albanians would be glad to get rid of them by agreeing to remain a part of serbia. the fact that you want to land grab this particular piece of land shows that you want trepca as well. like i said, this attempted secession has nothing to do with democracy but is a nationalist ploy to create a greater albania.

ATM - If you're not an albanian then i'm species 168 from Star Trek.

But to give you the benefit of doubt, here's a word of advice - don't waste your time reading Noel Malcolm. He's widely known to write whatever his European or US masters tell him to and has been widely discredited by his academic peers, especially those at Oxford University.

ATM, I can suggest a lot of reading material to you as well.
I have heard and read all your arguments before. I don't need to read one more line from anywhere else. The propaganda for the last 17 years coming out of Balkans has been intense and incredible. I have seen and heard it all in favour of your side and Croatian side but not much has has been heard in favour of Serbs in the mainstream media. Well, not in some mainstream media but if you look at media not coming from CNN or BBC and the like you will get a sense of what the other side went through and who committed horrible crimes on them as well.

It's not popular politics to tell the whole truth so one has to go looking for it. I did and I found so much information that the world needs to see.

No use listing any of it here for you because you don't want to know this. You only want to see and tell the world how Serbs were evil and did unspeakable things and resembled the Nazis. This "truth" has served you so well up to now so why would you even bother to look for the whole truth.

So don't recomment any reading material to me. I have seen it all and more.

Yes, exactly. Churches and monasteries dating back centuries which proves Serbian existence and ownership of Kosovo.

What are you going to offer as proof?
(Peggy, 12 November 2009 13:56)

2 millions albanians living there. Continuity in time and space through centuries of an etcnically comapact population. After all, the reality on the ground. Churches is not enough. You find greek monuments everywhere (Marseille-France, Sicily-Italy etc,,,etc..) but we never hear greek claiming those area.

We should adopt a similar strategy as Israel has towards the west bank/gaza. as Kosovo is Serbia's Holy land and it's full of muslims, building "secure" serb settlements is the only viable option.

SJ,

You been waiting on this for long time Albanians leaving :).

you do not understand our family structure:

1) yes many will go work in EU or USA but they all send portion home and also build their home for return there.

2) Kosovo is a country for almost 2 years and Eco crises was not the best time for it, hey we lived under Serbian rule with paralel structures we will do much better alone.

I think more Serbs will leave Kosovo, if Belgrade stops giving double salary to live in Kosovo they will be all gone.

But wait wait :)

Radoslav and Peggy,

Here its a book you should Read

Noel Malcolm Kosovo short Story it mite help.

Can you please answer me this question:

How do you expect them to go under Serbia now?

Again I am not Albanian just this region seems Europes version of Palestine.

As for the part that Albanians want Trepca I am sure they do, but if they would ask me i would say let them go its not worth all the gold there x 1000 to have to keep this going.

No one seems to be able to live in this part together but so did Scandinavians and now are known for human rights.

I think Serbs and Albanians have much more in common but their history to each with own myths its preventing