New Zealand recognizes Kosovo

Yes! I am a New Zealander and I am so happy that my country has decided to recognise the independence of Kosovo. I for one was a member of the public that sent the MoFA NZ a lettet demanding that the National Government accept Kosovan independence and so they did !

Another democratic country recognizes Kosova.There is more to come.
Thanks New Zeland.

Thank you New Zeland
God bless you and your and peace loving nations!

Great news for Kosovo people.

thank you new zeland.soon reconigtion from israel,greece and slovakia.i think little chef{vuk}wont be in governament for long.

Some countries appear not to care about ICJ.
Or perhaps they 'forgot' that they have to wait for 'famous' ICJ ruling.

Poor Jeremic,... soon he will be left jobless.

BTW: we lost count on how many countries recognised and/or competing-to-recognise us.

The recognition from NZ, one of the most liberal and free nations in the world, is more important then those from 50 dictatorships. The decision for NZ to announce this now at such a crucial time is another devastating defeat for Belgrade and clear signal where the ICJ will go. A going back is for sure undoable.

Thank you, New Zealand! One time I will visit this absolutely beautiful country.

Cheers!!

Thank you New Zealand. This is it. We hope much that other five European countries will recognise Kosovo soon, knowing that all 25 other EU members did .

Virg,

I thank you and your people for recognizing the will of the Kosovars.
Greetings from Kosova.

vuk jeremic said some days ago that no other recognition will come? it is clear now that jeremic is a liar

ps: thanks to to the great and democratic nation of new zealand for the recognition

New Zealand has a judge in the ICJ, this brings 8 (eight) out of 15 to our side.

(Virg, Auckland , NZ, 10 November 2009 10:03)

Thank you Virg!!!

Thank you NZ!

From a proud ILIRIAN.
ben

victory for kosova in ICJ thank you NZ god bless you

thank you new zeland.soon reconigtion from israel,greece and slovakia.i think little chef{vuk}wont be in governament for long.
(hazel, 10 November 2009 10:06)

Israel, Greece, and Slovakia? Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa....

Zoran,

Have Russia or China recognized us ? Who cares we dont need them as long as we got US and GB on our side. Have all EU members recognized us. No but those 5 who hasen't cannot stop Kosovo from nothing because they have to obey the other 22 EU states who has recognized Kosovo. That is how it works in a democratic sociaty and the majority rules.

Will Serbia be a EU member? Nope as long as 22 eu countrys dosen't allow that because Serbia has to recognize Kosovo. A fact that we all know will come. Just as we knew that Kosovo would declare independence.


Kosovo is Serbia is now just a bad dream. Kosovo got it's own strong goverment wich are handeling the country very well.


Cheers to New Zeeland I thank you for your recognition. I hope many more will follow your good example.

Well, another American puppet state in action.

(dean van der serbia, 10 November 2009 14:30)

Whenever an additional country recognizes Kosovo this seems to be the standard Serbian comment.

As for American influence in the world we are doing just great. The number of puppet states is constantly increasing. Who said that the USA is in decline?

Some of my Serb frinds were joking the other day with Jeremics' speach in EC, saying" He mentioned Kosovo, now a recognition will come from somewhere". And what happened feq days later ...

Well done New Zeland.

there is no way going back for you serbs kosovo is your home too. thank you new zealand

Cheers NZ, thank you. Ever little helps!

Diplomatic relations too
:p

Let me see.

Has Russia or China recognised "Kosova"? Nope!
Have all EU members recognised "Kosova"? Nope!
Are other countries likely to recognise "Kosova"? Yep!
Will this change any of the above or the situation on the ground? Nope!

Even though this means little, I am a bit surprised with New Zealand. I thought it was a free thinking country that is not easily arm twisted but I suppose things have changed since Helen Clark left.

Enjoy another meaningless recognition my fellow citizens. This didn't even make the News in New Zealand - meaning the citizens don't know or even care about it.

Please if you are a Serb do not comment on this let the "illirians" talk among themselves for once, you only make them feel important by responding to their nonsense

haha diplomatic relations hahaha what a joke! So this mean your goin to put less import tax on New Zealand lamb??? hahaha

Plus ive not read anything in the New Zealand News about them recognising Kosovo???

I even googled it and got a load of Albanian website saying this

Albanians grow up and realise joke nations recognising you = joke indipendance. Also ask me this Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia are there poorest nations balkans whys that???

Could it be you!!!

Hvala, Kosovo Je Srbija

Kosovo is in my heart and souls and no one can take that away from me, no one!

So glad I didn't vote here in NZ. It was so obvious John Key was going to win and I expected him to be a major sellout.

The only surprise is the delay. I was expecting recognition right after Australia.

As a Serb who spent more than half of his life in New Zealand I can tell you a most kiwis don't know where Serbia is, how will they know where Kosovo is? Only a few know about Croatia and that's about it for the Balkans for the average kiwi.

This recognition will change nothing on the ground, its just one politician getting paid in a far away country.

Looks like Bill Clinton's visit in Prishtina is paying of.
He is back to work,by making phone calls.

What's the weather like in your part of the world? It's a bit patchy in Belgrade today. I'm sure the Serbian weather will be reported in NZ but not Kosovo's recognition?
(Zoran, 10 November 2009 11:50)

Well more power to Serbia to focus on the weather .....

You laughed at us when we protested with two fingers up your represive regime, you laughed at us when we disobeyed your dictatorial state led by Milosevic, you laughed at us when we built paralel structures to run our life, you laughed at us when we protested peacefully for 10 years, you laughed at us when we picked up arms to fight for our rights, and you laughed at us when we declared independence..... well not sure who should laugh at whom?

We have achieved a lot of our goals, we got rid of Serb control over Kosovo, and it seems like that will stay like that for a very long time. Next, slowly but surely we will build a solid state and an army so the next time you will face an adversary of the same level. We are not far from the final finish, and we are persistent and our resolve will never fade.

New Zealand did a great decision on the right time just 3 weeks before the unjustified process in the ICJ will start.

Just a question.Why nobody asked Serbia first before Kosovo declared is legal and justified independent (LJI) and it was recognized by so many country?

"Have Russia or China recognized us ? Who cares we dont need them as long as we got US and GB on our side.

(Demi, 10 November 2009 11:54) "

Then enjoy being left out in the cold, barred from the UN permanently. Be like Taiwan. Actually not even like Taiwan. Taiwan is rich and don't depend on the West for handouts unlike "Kosova".

When a nation of mentally challenged pompous deadbeats such as New Zealand decides to get on the Kosovo independence bandwagon it's a sure fire indicator that independence is a dead duck

Have Russia or China recognized us ? Who cares we dont need them as long as we got US and GB on our side.

(Demi, 10 November 2009 11:54) "

GB on your side?? I live in the GB and I can honestly say that if 5% of the UK population has any idea about Kosovo and Serbia then I would be suprised. I am appalled, as would many be if they new the facts, that our so called democratically elected government has chosen to recognise this illegal declaration. Please be under no illusion that this means the UK is on your side. All it means is that one UK Prime Minister after another has dutifully dropped his trousers and turned his back towards the US and waited for the inevitable! I only hope that the ICJ is strong enough to remain true to its principles and not be manipulated by the US in the same way as our PM.

Yes! I am a New Zealander and I am so happy that my country has decided to recognise the independence of Kosovo. I for one was a member of the public that sent the MoFA NZ a lettet demanding that the National Government accept Kosovan independence and so they did !
(Virg, Auckland , NZ, 10 November 2009 10:03)

Do you really think that you had something to do with this?

Even as far as NZ, the Albanians are delusional.

I had a feeling that NZ will go down this road after Helen's loss. I guess she had to lose for this to happen.

Serbs and Albanians: stop sending comments, I will summarize them for you.

Serbs: lalala, Russia, China, puppet state.

Albanians: thank you the glorious nations of ( insert country), ICJ we no care.

All is said here.

Congratulations to our eastern little brothers the Kiwis for establishing new relations for peace.
Just for a clearification, Australia has way more sheep than New Zealand. Hope their weaker doller sincronises with ours instead of that asio currency that would just suck.

Ps: and people wanted Montenegro to withdraw their recognition yesterday :)

China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!
(Gagi, 10 November 2009 15:58)

130 on Serbia side eh? There were 131 the day before yesterday. How many more you think will keep being on Serbia side and for how long?

To my fellow Serbs, rest assured that this recognition will not pass uncontested on behalf of Serbs in NZ. I am already planning to contact the Foreign Ministry tomorrow in order to get further details on the matter. Either way there will be resistance

Please if you are a Serb do not comment on this let the "illirians" talk among themselves for once, you only make them feel important by responding to their nonsense
(Nick d, 10 November 2009 10:21)
--
Well, even our ethnic Albanian citizens need a bit of excitement every now and then.

I'm still waiting for an announcement from the NZ government or even something in their press but nothing yet! I wonder why? Isn't it worth informing their citizens of this historic event?

What's the weather like in your part of the world? It's a bit patchy in Belgrade today. I'm sure the Serbian weather will be reported in NZ but not Kosovo's recognition?

When people are thanking New Zealand it might be a good idea to get the name of their country right and not call them "New Zeeland" - just a thought!

This doesn't surprise me at all and makes sense given their global ties.

But Ian UK: "Cheers NZ, thank you. Ever little helps!..."

It's absolutely your right to support the 'cause' and you must feel comfortable on your bandwagon, but I just wonder why?

I am not Serbian but English, and my stance against independence is based on the trashing of international law and the disrespect of sovereign boundaries which I believe will create a serious worldwide problem and see the end of the UN. Not to mention chaos on our own doortep in Europe.

You are pro 'independence' why exactly, if you don't mind me asking? Based on you having met one Albanian from Kosovo via your Dad's charity? Does he know you're using his computer?

And yet you claim to be one of the rare Scots who are not in favour of Scottish independence? How can one tally with the other?

But whatever floats your boat...

Yes! I am a New Zealander and I am so happy that my country has decided to recognise the independence of Kosovo. I for one was a member of the public that sent the MoFA NZ a lettet demanding that the National Government accept Kosovan independence and so they did !
(Virg, Auckland , NZ, 10 November 2009 10:03)

Yeap... People who steal Maori lands - supported separatists... So - I will support independent Maori country on New Zealand!! They have much more rights to this land than You.

Even though the NZ government 'officials' have long since spent the contents of the brown envelope they received from the USfor this sick recognition stunt, it must have taken them this long to locate Kosovo on the map.

Very sad!

MB,Ireland

This recognition certainly sucks, but comes as no surprise.

In the greater picture, it changes nothing other than another loyal US ally following in the footsteps of the master. As China and Russia remain steadfast allies of Serbia, along with Spain, Cyrus, Greece, Slovakia and Romania, the albanians remain DOA.

So albanians, enjoy the fruit of the day...they are numbered.

denis:

You are really brave when you have someone fight for you. Don't worry dennis we will liberate our land when the time is right.

A very poetic comment Denis, but I'm afraid you missed the irony in your own words:

"You laughed at us when we protested with two fingers up your represive regime"

-- And you're getting angry when Serbs return with a three-finger raise against the repressive and organized criminal Albanian led regime in Pristina.

"you laughed at us when we disobeyed your dictatorial state led by Milosevic"

-- You get angry when K Serbs fly the Serbian flag, look to Belgrade, and refuse to integrate into your "state"

"you laughed at us when we built paralel structures to run our life"

-- You call for US intervention to overthrow the parallel Serb structures in Kosovska Mitrovica and Gracanica. You call for the expulsion of Serbs who are not loyal to this "state". You call for KEK to shut the power off. You call for KPS to fire Serbs.

"you laughed at us when we protested peacefully for 10 years"

-- You scoff at Serbs who "live in the past" and fail to see the "reality" you ascribe to.

"you laughed at us when we picked up arms to fight for our rights"

-- You call for KFOR to establish order north of the Ibar because you can't do it.

"and you laughed at us when we declared independence....."

-- And you continue to refuse to acknowledge that after November 15, at least 6 Serb-led municipalities will have little to nothing to do with that independence.

It's nice that you paint such a poetic picture of your side's apparent perennial struggle for survival, but like most things poetically woven to argue a point, it's largely exaggerated and fails to recognize similar practices are present in the reverse. One side struggles for freedom against collectively perceived fascism. Whether you know it or not, whether you believe it or not, to the K Serb, your side has now inherited the mantle of Milošević.

BTW: we lost count on how many countries recognised and/or competing-to-recognise us.
(PRN, 10 November 2009 10:13)
--
Let me help you PRN, after 63 comes 64. If you add another arm twist it becomes 65. But don't worry, you are almost at the end of your count so only a few more numbers to learn.

BTW, what's the weather like in your part of the world? I bet that gets reported in New Zealand.

Why? At this point, it's such a useless and redundant thing to do.

Even though the NZ government 'officials' have long since spent the contents of the brown envelope they received from the USfor this sick recognition stunt, it must have taken them this long to locate Kosovo on the map.

Very sad!

MB,Ireland
(Micheal Breathnach, 10 November 2009 13:17)

Have you heard of the NIS envelope that Russia got from Serbia?

Very,very sad!

NZ recognizes - I have just one word for that - so? Albanian Kosovo is still not an independent state, is it? If the internationals were to leave, including their armies, how long would independent Albanian Kosovo exist?

It is obvious that US already has started its dirty work to influence ICJ judges before the hearings even started.
(dean van der serbia, 10 November 2009 14:30)
And I suppose some way you have proof of that.
Sounds more like the losing team preparing the "they only won because of crooked referees" defense!

aRTA - You are right. 8 out of the 15 judges are from countries which recognise Kosovo.

But how many judges will you have next year? Their term is 9 years and at least 3 of your "supporting" judges have their term expiring THIS year, but the ICJ ruling isn't due until 2010/11. So to be conservative I'd say that the score is currently 7 to 5 in Serbia's favour. Come on VUk, get some friendly judges into those seats.

"Please if you are a Serb do not comment on this"

Ummmmm...isn't this a Serbian site?

And for those that think the positions of Russia and China don't matter are very delusional.

63 countries that's it ? By this time albanians thought they would be recognized by 150 countries even the acting so called government in Pristina said they were disappointed with how small recognition it got, now albanians are pretty much begging for anyone to recognize them. Pathetic Kosovo will never be part of UN or any major organization with only 63 countries recognizing it. China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!

@virg

I bet you as many other Newzealenders don't have a clue where Kosovo is.

No big deal! It's all up to Serbia. Serbian word is the last one to hear in all this mess caused by Kosovo illegal independence and we all know Serbian attitude won't change for a bit.

Well, another American puppet state in action.

Though I understand the connection between kiwis and bananas...they are both tropical fruits, I believe or not(?)...Kiwi Ambassador to be send home shortest notice and first flight due to the "recognition" of the banana state.

It is obvious that US already has started its dirty work to influence ICJ judges before the hearings even started.

And yes this is supposed to be a Serbian site but it is hard to tell sometimes

Mike,

First, I must apologize for my post yesterday- it had a bit of a confrontational and maybe even a cynical tone – this was in part of the a bad case of the Tuesdays and your post having a whiff of Kool-aid. I hope no offense was taken, as none was intended.

Now, to your points;

1.We're on the same page. Most of these recognitions after the first sudden wave of over a year ago are for brownie points really – Having the US and Western EU on board is really all that is needed to get some serious work done and pull ahead (as for the actual work, that is another story).

2.Intimidated/harassed/profiled – while I have no first hand accounts or reliable sources on this, that doesn't mean it doesn't occur, and frankly, given the circumstances, I am not surprised and in all likelihood things like that do occur. However, even in here in the good 'ole US and Western EU, the law enforcement is prone to doing exactly those things, though relatively compared, I would say it probably isn't as rampant as it would be in Kosova/o. Of course, as you point out, we're dealing with a bitter population that has experienced enough a decade ago, so in Balkan and emotional speak, it isn't too surprising. Is it right? Of course not, but I just don't like it when I and a lot of other people sharing similar views as me are lumped in the same category as wanting to destroy all Serbdom in sight. I don't support or condone this kind of behavior.

3.The politicians are just that – whores in suits, and K. Albanians certainly don't have a monopoly in this field. They need anything and everything to bring forward to win. Is it that surprising? While I personally would like the northern and other parts to fully integrate, I try to see things from their point of view, and just leave them alone for the time being. When things cool down, and efforts have been put into real issues (economy, rule of law, minimizing corruption, etc.), then that would be something tangible that any community would have a reason to participate. As for K. Albanian's hand being there for K. Serbs to grab on to – sure, it takes more than that, but I would have to ask – exactly what? For all the Kosovar gov'ts fault, they have taken some steps in trying to build some trust with K. Serb population – rebuilding of houses, giving tractors … things like that. Is it enough? It hardly ever is. Is it fair? Ask other Kosovar communities about that. It is a bit of a complicated issue – one where I would really like to hear practical and constructive arguments for this to work (so, I am all ears).

4.We're on the same page here.

5.I do not work for KEK, nor the Kosovar gov't, so I can't say for sure. Is it possible that KEK could be used as a tool? Of course it is. Has it been? I don't know. However, the very simple fact is, KEK is there to make money. Yes it is a monopoly, but so is Con Edison. KEK, with their bad service, offered their service such as it is, and K. Serbs consumed these services. Goods and services cost money, and people who work at the organization producing these things need to earn a living, and so on so forth. Thus, one pays for what they consume – it's (I hope) pretty simple to see this. However, quite a few K. Serbs refuse to strike a deal (a lump sum of less than 30 euros up front, then take care of the rest of the balance in the future), because somehow that is recognizing Kosovar independence (this is faulty logic, since consuming said services would imply recognition in the first place, if that were the case), not because of monetary issues. I really don't think it's about politics than it is more about getting something for free (instances where they happen all over the globe, just excuses are different), but we have drones here that can't see past that.
6.While there are members of KLA in the service, most places where there is a Serb dominated area, the officers are Serbs, so they would go about looking after their own affairs. Of course, it's not black and white, but the point that serving the public good should not be mixed with politics – this is something most rational people would agree with I hope. If there are conflicts with politics and doing the job, the sensible thing to do is quit the position so that someone else who is qualified and has no issues with public service and politics can serve better – this is in my humble opinion the way to go about it. Anything else is morally questionable.
7.We're on the same page here as well.
8.Refer to the opening paragraph. Threads lately have become littered with people with a lot of free time on their hands that have no better things to do than preach “my e-penis is bigger than yours” with Kosova/o as the synonym. I used to look forward to posts by Matthew, bganon, yours, and a handful of others that had something concrete, substantial and interesting to say. I want that back. That absence has been filled with people who truly bring the worst that Balkans has to offer, and it has become old and annoying (hence why I rarely post anymore – there just isn't any point, and I have no desire or the time to feed the trolls).

Peggy,

It's my policy not to feed trolls, but I will try to constructively address your response.

“Do you think that the more words you write the smarter your argument is? ”
-If said words are part of sentences whose content is that of an argument making a clear, concise and constructive point, I would say it's helpful, not necessary smarter. But if you find some holes in my arguments with some facts, I'd be delighted to read them.

“If one was to answer all your accusations we would need a forum set up especially to address what you wrote in detail. ”
-I didn't really accuse anyone of anything – it was merely an exchange of arguments. But if you're saying that the points would be best discussed in detail and in a dedicated place, then I would agree with you.

“Summary, you sure wrote a lot of garbage. ”
-Well, it isn't my problem if people choose to ignore comprehending what I wrote, be oblivious or put their head in the sand because you don't have any valid and constructive counter arguments. Besides, other more mature and respectable folks here would most probably disagree with you, so you can move right along and get your dose of “kocobo je serbija” kool-aid.

“KPS is oppressive just like a lot of K-Albanians. They don't have to go in and brutally kill Serbs now. They have already done the damage when they were KLA and now have the civilians doing their dirty job for them.
Look the other way, don't look for who done it, even if it is murder and claim you are not opressive.[sic] ”
-Well, you aren't totally off on the KPS part – if you ask an individualist anarchist, any sort of government is a form of oppression and coercion to the individual and members of a group. But I doubt you were talking about that. As for your theory that KPS and K. Albanians are out in arms murdering K. Serbs, I would love for you (no, I beg of you!) to show me some evidence, because that is a serious statement.


Good day to you all.

And yet you claim to be one of the rare Scots who are not in favour of Scottish independence? How can one tally with the other?
(kate, 10 November 2009 12:58)
--
I'm fairly sure I read Ian supporting Scottish independence. Is he now claiming otherwise?

Here is the text regarding the appointment of the "Kosovo Ambassador to London" as the representitive to NZ but resident in London. No explicit recognition and no mention of it on the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site- Check http://www.mfat.govt.nz/ so I'm wondering whether this is a half hearted attempt at keeping the US happy?

Mike

You're right that many of the tools being employed by the Serb minority in their resistance (for lack of a better word) are pretty much the same as the K Albs were using in the 90-s.

However, you're not right in comparing the present Kosovo government to that of Milosevic.

Milosevic was openly and proudly aiming at removing anything "Albanian" in Kosovo.

However, the same cannot be said for the Serbs in Kosovo. Yes, there are the on-and-off acts of vandalism against Serb monuments, but I don't believe rational Serbs would assume this is official Kosovo government policy.

As a New Zealander, I would like to say sorry on behalf of educated New Zealanders for the ill-minded decision by our idiotic "leader". He does not represent our country in any real sense, and I hope you will understand that it was another idiot politician trying to score points with the "west". Ja volem Serpski

yes your a albanian so try again and we all laugh at you, because you cant even spell new zealander but anyway, new zealanders dont know where is kosovo until you say serbia and they have no clue who are where albanians are from lol so this says it all, and if you dont also know this the biggest countries on earth say no recognition, and montenegro is planning to back out of this recognition and i could say your all celebrating for nothing.

“Why? At this point, it's such a useless and redundant thing to do. ”
- Care to elaborate? I would appreciate that, since I must be missing something. It's in every sovereign state's right to recognize (or not) another entity as a state. And frankly, it's all a number's game from here on in – the countries that have the capability to make things happen have already chimed in with their two cents and took the side of Kosovar Albanians (most of western countries). Sure, we have a few influential states that haven't gotten in the same bandwagon, but I would not dismiss them as useless or irrelevant (Russia, China, India, Brazil, just to name a few). But calling most of the west irrelevant would and should warrant a reality check. Again, I must be missing something, which I hope you can explain.

“And you're getting angry when Serbs return with a three-finger raise against the repressive and organized criminal Albanian led regime in Pristina. “
- Angry? Hardly. Repressive regime? Give me a break – when was the last time KPS and KSF went to the K. Serb population and slaughtered them? Jeez, time to ease it with the rakia/loza/slivovica Mike.


“You get angry when K Serbs fly the Serbian flag, look to Belgrade, and refuse to integrate into your "state"”
- Again, not really angry. I think K. Albanian population give as much of a damn about K. Serbs integrating, as Serbs cared about K. Albanians in Kosova/o being a part of Yugoslav/Serbian society. Annoying? Yes. Losing sleep over it? Don't think so. This is not to say we wouldn't want K. Serbs in our ranks and actually working to bettering the lives of people, as opposed to concentrating energy on ridiculous endeavors of pleasing a handful of wanton K. Serbs. This is a two way street – the K. Albanian's hand is there – it's up to K. Serbs to reach and grab it.


“You call for US intervention to overthrow the parallel Serb structures in Kosovska Mitrovica and Gracanica. You call for the expulsion of Serbs who are not loyal to this "state". You call for KEK to shut the power off. You call for KPS to fire Serbs. ”
- I don't think there has been a request to any international body to get up in arms and crush these parallel structures – and why would there be? These parallel structures are about as effective as the K. Albanian parallel structures in the 90's. And really, how hard would it be to forcefully eliminate these structures from Gracanica for example (I acknowledge the fact the northern part wouldn't be as easy)? Would it be worth it? It comes down to simple reasoning, and it is self evident.
As for KEK – oh please, are you that desperate to throw dirt at K. Albanians that refusal to pay the bills by some K. Serbs is some conspiracy that K. Albanians want to punish/exterminate them? Get a grip man! They refuse to pay for the service consumed – they obviously would pay (per their officials' claim) EPS or whomever, as long as it isn't KEK, however, they have no problem consuming KEK's services. No payment – no services. Doesn't require a nuclear physicists to sort this out.
As for Serb officers in KPS, there is something bigger at stake than their protests of what letterhead they don't like their paycheks to be in (and they had no problem cashing those checks, did they Mike?). To quote Mr. Cheeseburger 9000; “Police officers, just like doctors, have a special duty to the population that does not and should not take into consideration either politics or other extraneous issues.  Police are sworn to protect the population fairly;  they are not politicians, and for very good reason. In the case of the Kosovar Serb Police, they were sworn to protect the Albanians, the Serbs, the Turks, etc.  But instead of following their oath and displaying commitment to their profession, the Kosovar Serb Police decided to put politics over what is right.” (link; http://mrcheeseburger9000.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/serbs-desert-their-kps-posts-ridiculous/).


“You call for KFOR to establish order north of the Ibar because you can't do it. ”.
“And you continue to refuse to acknowledge that after November 15, at least 6 Serb-led municipalities will have little to nothing to do with that independence. ”
- I am glad KPS and KSF don't go there to establish control, since you and I are very well aware of the potential bloodshed it would cause. So why do that? Is it worth it? Enough blood has been spilled for nothing already, we can stay without any more people being killed, thank you very much. Things will fall into place with time – what the Kosovar gov't needs to focus on is the economy and rule of law – that in the end will be the incentive to have the K. Serb minority to integrate. Will it be perfect? Of course not. But at least it's light years away from people getting repressed, matreated and slaughtered with impunity (K. Albanians didn't quite have this luxury, did they Mike?).


Look, your sympathies lie with the Serb side (it's not like it's a secret), and that is fine – we are all guilty of being biased to some degree (myself included obviously) – it's unavoidable. But when you're taking jabs/ cheap shots at the other side and oftentimes making sweeping generalizations, it's not helpful to anybody. If you want to fall in the ranks of brainless nationalistic minions, then more power to you. However, I used to regard your comments much higher than that of Ratko, PRN, etc. threw in – I'd really like to see the old Mike back (I am not holding my breath though…).

(kate, 10 November 2009 12:58)

I am an Englishman living in Wales; not a Scot. I have never claimed to be a Scot. I'm using my own laptop which I bought and I am using the internet which is in my name and which I pay for. I support Kosovo's independence because I support Kosovo's right to self determination. I would also not oppose the independence of Scotland or Wales if the majority of them wanted it. Also I believe Kosovo's declaration of independence to be in line with international law according to UNSC Res 1244, which includes resolving the final status of Kosovo during UN administration, which has been achieved through the plan by former UN Sec Gen Ahtisaari.

On another point, I think it is worth pointing out that New Zealand has not recognised Kosovo as a Serbian province since 18th Feb 2008. Before yesterday, NZ did not recognise Kosovo as independent or a Serbian province, but as disputed territory. NZ finally faced reality.

I bet you as many other Newzealenders don't have a clue where Serbia is.
--
Thank you so much New Zeland
My next holiday is in New Zeland.

Peggy,

“How many Serb murders have been solved so far and has anyone been found guilty of destroying Serbian cemetaries[sic]?
None is the answer. Now if that is not evidence of K-Albanians getting away with murder with help from KPS (KLA)then I don't know what is. ”
- I obviously have no figures (and am quite sure, neither do you. Making up numbers doesn't count), but that point is moot. I challenge you to come up with an instance where I claimed that the justice system in Kosova/o is the best in the world. Furthermore, I challenge you to come up with an instance where the judicial system of any country is flawless. As a matter of fact, let's look how Serbia is looking into war crimes committed by their criminals. How does getting a maximum of 20 years in jail for barbarically murdering 48 people, including women, children and elderly sound? (http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=04&dd=23&nav_id=58692). This is an insult and a shame!
If you bothered to put aside your prejudice and actually read and comprehend what I wrote, you would see that I don't support or condone what was done to the people and the cultural and historical sites. As you may or may not be aware, money doesn't grown on trees in Kosova/o, coupled with the fact that infrastructure, logistics, human resources, etc. aren't the best that they could be. For heaven's sake, the police officers aren't properly equipped, poorly paid, etc., let alone possess the resources to go through thousands of cases piled up all at once from every venue within the country. Simple reality on the ground – never said it was fair or in good standing. Hopefully EULEX can help out and bring perpetrators to face justice. However, I can't say I have much hope for the justice system in Serbia to deliver any kind of justice to K. Albanians.

“Where have you been all this time? Where were you in 2004?
How many Serbs have been murdered since the war ended and you want more evidence. If you cannot see any of this then you won't see any more. ”
- Time didn't start in 2004, did it Peggy? I feel like I am repeating myself. Yes, it is bad what happened, I don't think anyone in their right might would get off on people dying for any reason. If you have any information or can provide any support for those thugs and criminals to be caught, why are you wasting bits and bandwidth here? Take action and stop spewing a whole lot of nothingness .
These incidents, while regrettable in every aspect, calling them a systematic campaign by the entire K. Albanian people and government against K. Serbs, are blatant lies, so feed that to the ignorant and spare me please.
On the other hand, I don't hear you expressing any kind of sympathies for the other side either – since when does only one side matter? Again, this is not to say that the revenge attacks were justified, but let's keep things in perspective and not be naïve. Believe it or not, K. Albanian lives are not worth less, and K. Albanians, despite what prejudices you may have, really are human, and deserve the same amount of sympathy and respect as the K. Serbs do.

“All your lengthy comments which resemble War and Peace don't have a shread[sic] of truth in them.”
- Well, I suppose we should suspend our version and substitute your version of the truth, right Peggy? The level of hypocrisy is astounding.


This is the last time I will waste any more storage and bandwidth to reply to your playground caliber responses.

Good day to all.

Love this saying:

'China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!'

Hold in there Serbs in Kosovo you are the true heroes standing up to illegal independence you will never be forgot. Serbia, Repulic of Srspka,Russia,China,India,Spain,Israel and many others are with you. God bless all the Serb children in Kosovo!

"Well, another American puppet state in action.

(dean van der serbia, 10 November 2009 14:30)

Whenever an additional country recognizes Kosovo this seems to be the standard Serbian comment.

As for American influence in the world we are doing just great. The number of puppet states is constantly increasing. Who said that the USA is in decline?
(Joe, 10 November 2009 16:09) ..."


>>> Well, NZ just have proved that it is one MEGA puppet state in the puppet puppy action.

OK, let's shortly analise the "Independence" of this,action?
Just today (or yesterday) on November 10th, Kiwi politicians somewhere "down under" suddenly realized that on their daily political agenda should be urgently the question of recognition of Kosovo, for which 99% of Kiwis neither the same percentage of their politicians do not even have a slight idea where it is?

Sounds logical indeed?
Man would be "really" fundamentally psychotic if he, she it would connect it with the soon coming of ICJ hearings on the matter "Serbia against Kosovo unilaterally proclaimed Independence" and the start of the US dirty campaigning, bullying and putting the pressure on ICJ Court and judges and relevant puppet states?Suuuuuuuuure.

And concerning the US influence in the World on the puppet states...it is surely still there.
Just unfortunately for US bully political hegemony there is very very much growing number of the countries who will permanently oppose US political neocolonial bully.
China, Russia, India, Brazil and hundreds more are ringing the bell?

"Dominant" US say still exist in "tropical states"...Chiquita banana Dominican Republic, Kiwiland...
Sure part of obeyable EU is in line too...and that would be just about it.

As well for US political bully..."finito"...soon to be over.

I am sooooo pleased. thank you to the people of New Zealand!! pleased for the people of Kosovo/a, pleased for the freedom-loving people of the world. it's another great victory, and yes, sometimes victory is sweet.

also, i promised way, way back that when we rec'd each recognition, i would remain 100% positive...

these day to day events can be difficult, monotonous, oppressive. but this stretching out of the recognitions has really worked to our advantage, ironically, and sometimes that's just the way things go.

at any rate, it's time for all of us to look forward, not backward. i do believe in an unrelenting examination of the past -- of trying "alleged" war criminals, demanding reparations when appropriate, promoting refugee return... lots of hard work remains, and yet at the same time we need to learn to live together, to grow forward together, despite and because of the past.

it can happen.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

This is very true comment

"China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!"

As for your theory that KPS and K. Albanians are out in arms murdering K. Serbs, I would love for you (no, I beg of you!) to show me some evidence, because that is a serious statement.


Good day to you all.
(Jetoni, US, 11 November 2009 12:53)

Only one question will give you enough evidence.

How many Serb murders have been solved so far and has anyone been found guilty of destroying Serbian cemetaries?

None is the answer. Now if that is not evidence of K-Albanians getting away with murder with help from KPS (KLA)then I don't know what is.

Where have you been all this time? Where were you in 2004?
How many Serbs have been murdered since the war ended and you want more evidence. If you cannot see any of this then you won't see any more. All your lengthy comments which resemble War and Peace don't have a shread of truth in them.

First of all:Thank you NZ!

NZ is 63th country that recognized Kosova.In every recognition that was put here in www.b92.net/eng... serbs were angry and they wrote everything against these countries! Why? because they know : countries that are recognition Kosovo are rising and the countries that "support" Serbia are falling down:S Kosova waits for new recognition.

I have been searching the web for news out of NZ to confirm this recognition announcement by the K_Albanians, but with no success. Did Pristina confuse New Zealand with Jersey? I have checked the NZ Herald's world section, political section, and national section, and not one mention of anything to do with Kosovo. I'll check the cartoon section next, and keep you all in tune.

When did this become an Albanian site cause they sure enjoy posting.New Zealand? Wow so what the second any outsiders leave Kosovo-Metohija is Serbian.Theft is theft nothing changes that.Those minerals under Kosmet belong to Serbs and not the globalists.

Serbs thought is over!
More and more and more to come soon.
Ps. Nobody is withdrawing ;)

Peggy, I think rather more constructive example would be by starting off with the question: "How many Albanians have been murdered from 82 to 99?", how many Bosniacs, Croats ? Then we could probably answer the your questions. Actually your answer would answer your question too.

Slowly but surly. Thanx New Zeland.

Also I don't understand why you guys bring up 2004 when more Albanians got killed then Serbs but also forgot to mention 1999.

Of all the Governments the New Zealand Government will look the most foolish when the ICJ rules that Kosovo’s unilateral independence is illegal.
The second phase strategy for the Serbian Government after they receive their ICJ opinion is to sue all none EU states for illegally recognizing Kosovo. New Zealand should be the first one sued. Followed by the United States and Canada, however I think Canada will be among the first nations to revoke recognition. Followed by Montenegro, Macedonia and Bulgaria.

New Zealand has a judge in the ICJ, this brings 8 (eight) out of 15 to our side.
(aRTa, 10 November 2009 13:06)

So what.

Judges uphold laws, not do politicians' bidding.
ICJ judges will uphold international law because that's what they are there for. Even if this Kiwi judge uphold NZ law it still would not make it legal at ICJ.

So what is so good about a NZ judge being there?

New Zealand becomes the 63rd country to recognize Kosovo. When I want to consider which countries have ethical governments, I know that None of those 63 countries would apply to the matter.

'How many Serb murders have been solved so far ...?'

This matter of numbers was one of the issues raised in the first EULEX Programme Report, in the section on the Kosovo police force - they had never broken down crimes by the ethnicity of victim or perp, so there has been no way of answering such questions. (It was probably set up that way at the suggestion of some politically-correct American.) Since the police in Serb areas are themselves Serbs, it wouldn't say much for their competence if no Serb murder had ever been solved.

What I mean is don't respond to their comments, Im not saying to not have any comment...

New Zealand is a small insignificant country that is an economic mess. Its last hurrah was in the 1980s when it refused to allow US ships carrying nuke weapons into its harbours. Since then its been going down hill, its privatised nearly everything government owned, its standard of living has dropped substantially, more of its people leave each year for Australia looking for jobs.

So you can see that it had no choice but to recognise Kosovo. Since the 1980s the US has made sure its nothing but a backwater for its audacity to refuse its military vessles. However, that does not answer the eternal burning question, where will Kosovars find work? Who will invest in Kosovo? When will this investment occur and how much?

Not one answer so far. Enjoy your prison Kosovars!

Let the Albanians enjoy this "recognition".
The most important thing is that UN1244 confirms Kosovo is Serbia,that Russia and China will veto any change,that four EU countries will forever block any submission to EU and NATO and other organizations which will keep the Albanians in our Southern province locked up like in a prison.
And we will keep it that way.

Someone of them spouted how they have a big resolve,how they will build an army bla,bla...
We saw it in 1999 then your army was crashed and one million Albanians fled our southern province...
Believe me,you are on life support of the USA,that is the only thing that is ensuring your existence
(not even the EU since they are pacifistic and don`t have the stomach to fight for themselves,yet alone Albanians)...
Once they leave ,there will be game over for you Albanians,once and for all.
We Serbs are very patient people and can wait very,very long and we always achieve our goals,sooner or later.

This is not a vote of nations. Who cares who 'recognises'?

Albanian has its territorial borders and Kosovo is in Serbia.

Trying to insert a flee-bite in the middle is an artificial construct that cannot sustain.

History is not over yet.

The Albanians waited 5 months for a single recognition! And this New Zealand recognition should've occured when Australia and the other imperialist lackeys recognized the fake and illegal UDI.

Talk about desperation.

New Zeland is a sovereign and democratic country, who makes his decisions on his free will. To blame New Zealand for that shows what a bad access many of you have on the democratic world.


It is interesting to see that mostly democratic and the free country's are recognizing the legal and justified independent of Kosovo(LJIK).

Macedonia for example had just 63 recognition after seven(7)years after his independence!!!

NZ recognizes - I have just one word for that - so? Albanian Kosovo is still not an independent state, is it? If the internationals were to leave, including their armies, how long would independent Albanian Kosovo exist?
(svojgazda, 10 November 2009 18:56)
A very true statement!! Now wonder why no one in the world is advocating removing 1244 and returning to Serbian control?

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 10 November 2009 21:41)

I always get a good laugh when I read statements like “the freedom-loving people of the world”, “democracy’ ‘free speech” and so on. It sounds so 1950s that only the very backward tend to recite these clichés.

In my experience this is usually mouthed by immigrants that have arrived thinking the streets of US are paved with gold but, as Michael Moore said, they end up as hotel room cleaners, janitors etc., or to use the proper terminology end up as the working poor – the ones that have 2/3 jobs and still can’t make ends meet, but continue to espouse the greatness of USA.

Here is a promise you will remember for a long time – Kosova is going nowhere and no one will invest in it, no jobs, no banks will lend your government money, US only wants the base and not Kosvars .

So Roberto, enjoy your moments of joy now, but the Serbs will have the last laugh.

Ciao
sj

Milosevic was openly and proudly aiming at removing anything "Albanian" in Kosovo.

but I don't believe rational Serbs would assume this is official Kosovo government policy.
(Ment, 10 November 2009 19:48)
--
Who are you trying to fool? It is ethnic Albanian policy to remove everything Serbian and we constantly hear about it here from ethnic Albanians themselves. Half of the Serbian population has been ethnically cleansed or murdered, houses burnt, churches destroyed, graves desecrated and the list goes on. Pristina is not doing anything to help Serbians return.

Milosevic was cracking down on terrorist activity and ethnic Albanians were firmly in Kosovo until NATO started bombing. You can keep your propaganda and lies to yourself.

It doesn't seem even one New Zealand newspaper reported this event and it's not even mentioned on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade site. I mean, it seems less people in New Zealand know about this shameful act than there are ethnic Albanians here thanking them. Why hasn't the New Zealand government announced anything? Why hasn't the media reported it? It's really only Albanian media while Google reports 4 articles.

There is nothing democratic or free thinking about this recognition. It seems to have been done in secret with effort made to keep everything quiet. I wonder why?

It has been a while since the last recognition, must admit it is a proper country finally rather than some funny US island in the Pacific that apparantly classes itself as a state with it's population of 2.

I don't think it will mean much, however, a recognition from China, Russia, Spain, Romania, Slovakia, Greece and Cyprus will be more important for them though.

Fact is they are running themselves (not very well, being by far the poorest "state" in Europe, but anyway) and are not under Belgrade's government anymore, it will remain your standard "independent, yet unrecognized state" like Palestine, Taiwan, Sahrawi Arab Republic etc. ie. another black hole, pity it's in Europe though.

Also I believe Kosovo's declaration of independence to be in line with international law according to UNSC Res 1244, which includes resolving the final status of Kosovo during UN administration, which has been achieved through the plan by former UN Sec Gen Ahtisaari.
(Ian, UK, 10 November 2009 19:17)

Ian,

Ahtisaari has never been UN Sec Gen. It was his representative. It seems that your knowledge on the subject is very much in line (limited) what your govermant brodcast on the TV.

I think it's strange that on such a happy day, 1 recognition in last 6 months all albanians can do is think and talk about Vuk. Strange and also funny. Hang in there albanians only 130 countries, UN and Zubin Potok left to recognise your little frozen thing :))

im from new zealand i live in london . no one asked me ? i would of said no . new zealand is one of the top 5 most modern countrys in the world ... just to clear that up for all the people now starting to slag us off ... youve probably never even left old fashioned europe . take care .

Jasen D. Bruce allegedly hit 29-year-old Alexios Marakis over the head with a tire iron and chased him for three blocks Monday evening before Tampa police officers intervened.

Marakis, a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from Crete, told police he had stopped to ask the 28-year-old reservist for help after getting lost in downtown Tampa. He had just performed a blessing of another priest and accidentally got off the highway.

Marakis approached Bruce as he was unloading his dry-cleaning, police said.

"Please, please help," Marakis said to Bruce in his limited English.

Bruce pulled out a tire iron and attacked the priest, police said. He then called 911 as he chased Marakis, saying an Arabic man was trying to rob him. When officers arrived, Bruce told them the man was a terrorist.

Bruce also told police he heard Marakis yell, "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great," according to Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy.

Marakis, however, does not speak Arabic, McElroy said. He speaks Greek.

Police are working to determine if the offense meets the standard for a hate crime.

Authorities could not immediately provide the name of Bruce's attorney.

"there is very very much growing number of the countries who will permanently oppose US political neocolonial bully.
China, Russia, India, Brazil and hundreds more are ringing the bell?"
dean

Growing number is not enough. How much power do they have?
By the way I thought that under Bush we reached a high number of those "lovely" countries. You suggest that under friendly and accomodating Obama this number is still going higher?

Jetoni,

No need to apologize at all. It was a nice change of pace to read a comment that was critical, but constructive at the same time (sad that they are few and far between). And yes, it is unfortunate that moderates, who certainly can disagree with one another, risk being lumped in with the trolls here. I disregard almost all of the Albanian hyper nationalists, and at the same time almost always find something insightful from village-bey, louie, genc, Ment, and you. Though sadly the nationalists tend to drown out the more pragmatic voices.

Anyways, we are on the same page, albeit starting with different paragraphs. Feel free to critique anytime. It's the only way both sides can finally get through the lobotomized BS.

Jetoni, you bring up the issue of Serbia not giving adequate sentences to the criminals they caught.

OK, what sentences have been given to Albanian criminals?
Oh, wait. None. Why? Because none have been caught.

Don't you dare point a finger at the way Serbia is dealing with criminals when nobody is even looking for criminals in K-Albanian community.

When K-Albanians start arresting and sentencing their own for war crimes then and only then can you compare who is dishing out justice and who isn't. Until then, a little less talk of a brilliant system and a bit more action would be better.

And please, don't answer this comment as you said you souldn't because frankly all we get from you is a lot of hot air. No substance at all.

I challenge you to show me where your Albanian system in Kosovo works for the Serbs and you come up with a challenge for me to show you where it doesn't. I just did. No criminals even arrested yet, let alone sentenced. How is that for a system not working?

So before you divert to Serbia, which is arresting and sentencing, pay attention what Albanians are NOT doing.

Peggy, I think rather more constructive example would be by starting off with the question: "How many Albanians have been murdered from 82 to 99?", how many Bosniacs, Croats ? Then we could probably answer the your questions. Actually your answer would answer your question too.
(Grimson, 11 November 2009 14:11)
Or for u that question would be: How many Bosnian Serbs, Serbs from Kosovo and Metohija, Croatia Serbs were killed during wars of 90s? In ww2 great number of Serbs were killed in concreation camps across Europe. In KosMet there was 10000 Serbs killed, 100000 banished. In croatia gratest camp Jasenovac 700000 people were killed and Serbs were an absolute majority. Titos Yugoslavia made Serbs again victims of albanian ethnic cleansing and terror attacks. There is a lot more of that.

Its not really that hard to be LOCATED Kosovo, since it is near Albania, and they both are pretty significant, makes it easier to be located,don't you think so?.

your side has now inherited the mantle of Milošević.
(Mike, 10 November 2009 18:21)

Indeed - and who was the founder of communist "Lëvizja Popullore e Kosovës"? Oh, no, wasn't it Hashim Thaçi? There is no such thing as "ex-communist", "ex-terrorist", "ex-fascist". But as usual with clever communists, H.T. played his cards smarter as the party he did find. One thing a clever communist does not need is the backbone.

Like in the old joke about lawyers

One shark asks an other:
- "what did you eat today?"
- "a lawyer"
- "how you know, it was a lawyer?"
- "he had no skin on his face and no backbone"

Roberto wrote:

"I am sooooo pleased. thank you to the people of New Zealand!! pleased for the people of Kosovo/a, pleased for the freedom-loving people of the world. it's another great victory, and yes, sometimes victory is sweet."

People of NZ had nothing to do with this. They weren't even asked.

what a disappointment

shame on you John Key!! to put a shame on New Zealand

not that many NZlanders will know Kosovo issue in depth but those who do are deeply distresed and ashamed

most damaging decision for NZ so far
never vote National again !!!

Jetoni (and Ment who raised similar points),

Good comments (I even laughed at a few of them).

And for the record, I am enjoying a rather nice Asbach Uralt this evening (straight, because ice dilutes), but I hope it doesn't mar my replies:

1. "Care to elaborate? [on the issue of me calling the recognition "useless"]

-- Your own reply had the answer: at this point, it's all a numbers game. I mean can we really say that Kosovo's current situation is going to be better with NZ's recognition, or get worse without it? I've always been one who thought that Kosovo's current situation would be no different if only 10 countries recognized. It has the support of the US, the UK, Germany, and (tacitly) France. That's all that really matters. The rest of these recognitions are really icing on an already made cake. It's not like things are suddenly going to change, particularly in regards to internal sovereignty. If anything, a recognition or not provides little else other than bragging rights on this site. To the average Serb in Gracanica, or Albanian in Pristina, it’s just another day. On an equal footing, Montenegro could suddenly rescind its recognition and nothing major would happen.

2. "when was the last time KPS and KSF went to the K. Serb population and slaughtered them?"

-- Slaughtered? No. Intimidated? Harassed? Profiled? That seems more like it, and that was the parallel I drew with Milosevic's apartheid policies prior to 1999. However, I'm quite sure that given the right conditions, some of Kosovo's less savory Albanians would not hesitate to unleash pogroms to those we unfortunately witnessed in 2004, not to mention a series of revenge attacks sporadically over the last 8 - 9 years. Are we talking systemic-wide repression? No. Are we talking about too many cases of revenge attacks to make it likely powers higher up have a say in it? I have to believe it.

3. "I think K. Albanian population give as much of a damn about K. Serbs integrating, as Serbs cared about K. Albanians in Kosova/o being a part of Yugoslav/Serbian society."

-- Then we're pretty much on the same page aren't we? If you're basically saying Albanians just don't care what Serbs do/don't do (as I suspect the vast amount of K Albanians feel), why then the need for politicians in Pristina to constantly play the ethnic card and make statements of “pacifying” the north? I've always been an advocate of both sides having the freedom to be left the Hell alone. But when you write "the K. Albanian's hand is there – it's up to K. Serbs to reach and grab it", I have to respond by saying it takes a lot more than extending one's hand for the other to take it. Belgrade offered its hand after 2000 and prior to February 2008, and hardly any Albanian felt insane enough to take it. Trust is something that is sorely lacking, and no Serb is going to work with any Albanian government headed by former KLA leaders. That's just common sense.

4. "These parallel structures are about as effective as the K. Albanian parallel structures in the 90's. And really, how hard would it be to forcefully eliminate these structures from Gracanica for example (I acknowledge the fact the northern part wouldn't be as easy)? Would it be worth it? It comes down to simple reasoning"

-- Again, common sense dictates it would be a waste of time, as well as an exercise in futility. Yet for reasons that I can't explain, there seems to be this unhealthy fixation by Pristina in incorporating a community that wants nothing to do with them. Almost seems as foolish as Belgrade wanting to incorporate 2 million people that want nothing to do with them, right? Besdies, KFOR wouldn’t do it.

5. "are you that desperate to throw dirt at K. Albanians that refusal to pay the bills by some K. Serbs is some conspiracy that K. Albanians want to punish/exterminate them?"

-- That's not what I was getting at. I was simply saying that I believe KEK has been used as a tool of benign political pressure by Pristina to get the Serbs under their control. This issue alone can easily turn into a back and forth argument as has happened on this site, but suffice to say that unless I'm misinformed, I wonder whether the heavy hand of KEK is equally applied to non-paying Albanians too. If, hypothetically, EPS somehow steps in and provides electricity and Serbs still don't pay, then it's a different story.

6. "instead of following their oath and displaying commitment to their profession, the Kosovar Serb Police decided to put politics over what is right.”

-- It would be nice for at least KPS to be the one civic organization that all people in Kosovo can work in. I'm certainly not saying Serbs are guilt free in politicizing this (and I'm even more sure they'll cash any check with their name on it regardless of letterhead), but again, if KPS is essentially former KLA's operating under a new acronym, the average Serb in the village is not going to join up. Those Serbs with a dubious past in Kosovo, are long gone anyway. This ties in in point #2 above.

7. "Enough blood has been spilled for nothing already, we can stay without any more people being killed, thank you very much. Things will fall into place with time – what the Kosovar gov't needs to focus on is the economy and rule of law – that in the end will be the incentive to have the K. Serb minority to integrate."

-- No disagreements there. As for the incentive of Serbs north of the Ibar to participate, that's another subject for a future time period.

8. "If you want to fall in the ranks of brainless nationalistic minions, then more power to you."

-- Dear God no. We have far too many of them here already, and I have little interest in arguing for Serbia’s claim to a region simply because “Kosovo je crce Srbije”. I try to be as objective as possible (obvious biases aside that we're all guilty of). There's much in what you wrote that I agree with, and am glad a non-nationalist took the time to write a response. Sadly however, a number of us spend far too much time responding to (and feeding off of) the "brainless nationalistic minions" as you refer to them. My comment you replied to was a case in point. If anything, I firmly believe each side in this debate has valid points that need to be presented. But equally, each side all too often spends far too much time with their heads stuck up their own hind quarters, which makes listening to anything critically objective a rather difficult endeavor. For Kosovo, I go as far as “Daytonize the damn thing” and letting each side run their own affairs. Pristina stays out of KM/Gracanica, and Belgrade stays out of Pristina/Prizren. I put my trust in knowing Tadić/Jeremić are pragmatic enough to know that. I can only hope Thaci/Sejdiu think the same.

I remember when Helen Clark was NZ PM and they were not going to recognise Kosovo, Albanians had nothing nice to say about NZ. Saying things like how they don't need NZ who only have sheep etc was a common comment.

It's amazing how all of a sudden they love NZ. Wait till next election, you just may hate them again.

Here is the short but fundamental course for Kosovo Albanian team and team of their supporters on the subject of wishfull thinking and the concept of independent legality:

I can notice the great and coordinated applaud for the Kiwi's Government decision by the Albanian team and supporters, momentarily connecting it, applying it and wishfully presuming as well that Kenneth Keith, ICJ Court hearing Judge from New Zealand will then, following the decision of his Government, rule in Kosovo Albanian favor?
Are you aware of your lack of the concept of independent justice and the reason of arguments?

Following your simple, but fundamentally barbaric "logic", consequently ICJ should not be even starting the hearings and arguments:
8 judges originate from the countries which did recognized Kosovo "independence" and 7 from the countries which did not do so.
So it is, and over?

Very sad way of thinking, boys and girls.
And if reality proves your case and the judges advisory decisions corespondent with the Kosovo "independence" decisions by their Governments we can nicely take this institution called International Court of Justice and trow it, once and for all, into the garbage bin.

It will be interesting to see and follow. I'll be there.

Jetoni,
Do you think that the more words you write the smarter your argument is?

If one was to answer all your accusations we would need a forum set up especially to address what you wrote in detail.

Summary, you sure wrote a lot of garbage.

KPS is oppressive just like a lot of K-Albanians. They don't have to go in and brutally kill Serbs now. They have already done the damage when they were KLA and now have the civilians doing their dirty job for them.
Look the other way, don't look for who done it, even if it is murder and claim you are not opressive.

@ ZORAN

For your information on that this news didnt ake it on our tv u r wrong sir NZ Recognition of Kosovo made it on one of NZ most watched bulletin the "Breakfast" show were up two 1 million people watch daily ! And i am so happy with this recogntion at least the Albanians and Kosovars are grateful enough to say Thanks to all Kiwi's and also send letters to our Government and Ministry thanking them and blessing them have the serbs done that to countries that dont recognise kosovo? No only to russia a country nz doesnt like. TO ALL OTHERS NZ SUPPORTED KOSOVO AND WE TOOK REFUGESS COME TO NZ AND U WILL SEE HOW WE REACT TO KOSOVO.

NZ AND KOSOVO GREAT FRIENDS OR SOON TO BE !

How many more you think will keep being on Serbia side and for how long?
(Mark, 10 November 2009 18:14)
--
Enough to ensure Kosovo never becomes independent. This whole recognition process is a waste of time and so is the ICJ judgement. Whatever the International court decides may mean a few extra insignificant recognitions either revoked or made.

The ICJ decision, if it goes against Serbia will not change much in Kosovo but will likely stir trouble in Bosnia and with other seperatist movements around the world. It is a double edged sword so be careful what you wish for.

Macedonia for example had just 63 recognition after seven(7)years after his independence!!!
(luis, 12 November 2009 01:11)

That's because Serbia has no issue with that and Macedonia had the right to secede as republics did, but Kosovo was never a republic and has no right to secede without Serbia's permission.

Do you see the difference? So don't compare apples with oranges next time.

timotimekvej,
I am saddened from your comment. Only in Srebrenica Serbs killed 8,372 men, women and kids. Non-Serb victims reach the 100,000 at the end of the Bosnian war. Over 11,000 Kosovo-Albanians were killed later on Kosovo war and 3,000 are missing so the number reaches just over 14,000 based on UN numbers. I am deeply saddened from Serbs victims as well, everyone is a human been and doesn’t deserve to die in his/her home but for sake of truth majority of non-Serbs died at their home or protecting their home. I cannot say the same for Serb victims unfortunately because that’s the truth.
Your reflection on ex-Yugoslavia war is deeply disturbing and doesn’t serve the peace the Balkan badly needs. I hope B92 continue to publish comments that don’t represent your view as well as yours.

I dont need any advise from you Peggy I know very well the constitutional right and laws of the former SFRY.I am speaking about facts.Both Kosovo and Macedonia have declared there independent, i is not important on which legal basic.Sure it was for FYROM easier,because they had not to fight for their freedom.Fact is that, with all difficulties, Kosovo has much more recognition than Macedonia in one and a half year.The number of 63 states they reached after seven years of declaring their independence.
(luis, 13 November 2009 03:00)

Clearly someone has to give you the facts and advice. You are so misguided.
It matter very much on which basis independence was obtained.
You cannot simply declare yourself independent, have a few back you up and bingo, you are independent. There is a small matter of Internationa Law and THAT'S A FACT.

So you cannot possible ever compare FYROM to Kosovo. One went legally and the other illegally. It doesn't matter how many countries agreed and when. What matters is INTERNATIONAL LAW. Doing something legally is OK while breaking the law is never OK.

Wow, never seen as much comments as on this article!
Slowly but surely...

Cheers

I dont need any advise from you Peggy I know very well the constitutional right and laws of the former SFRY.I am speaking about facts.Both Kosovo and Macedonia have declared there independent, i is not important on which legal basic.Sure it was for FYROM easier,because they had not to fight for their freedom.Fact is that, with all difficulties, Kosovo has much more recognition than Macedonia in one and a half year.The number of 63 states they reached after seven years of declaring their independence.

Peggy, I think rather more constructive example would be by starting off with the question: "How many Albanians have been murdered from 82 to 99?", how many Bosniacs, Croats ? Then we could probably answer the your questions. Actually your answer would answer your question too.
(Grimson, 11 November 2009 14:11)

OK let's start. How many Albanians, Croats and Bosnian Muslims have been murdered from 82-99?
We all know the figures being floated out there. We are all aware of the greap propaganda and inflated numbers of Muslim dead but we never seem to read in the papers how many Serbs were murdered. Why is that?
Is it because the west tries to hide Serbian dead?

Since we were fed a diet of dead Muslims for a long time now, isn't it only balanced to give out how many Serbs died and how many were ethnically cleansed?

We also know that Albanians from Kosovo have been killing and terrorising Serbs long before the war. How many Serbs have died after the war in Kosovo? Let's get those figures out as well. How many mureders of Serbs have been solved so far? Has anyone been even arrested for those murders?

Funny how you don't want to discuss any of this but want to float the exhaggerated numbers of Muslims killed.
Yes, many died on all sides. War is hell and we all know it, but in war all die regardless of whose side.

So let's be fiar and balanced here and leave the numbers game out of this or include all in it.

Let's not forget that not Muslims were killed by the Serbs. Croats played a good role in this as well.
Some Muslims also killed ther fellow Muslims as well.
Are we going to chalk up all the numbers of Muslims killed to the Serbs only? It seems that is exactly what our Albanians are telling us here.

KLA did their share of killing their fellow Albanians as well. Are we going to be told that only Serbs killed Albanians and all the dead are a result of Serbian killers?

How many died in combat?

So when you float numbers out there, keep all this in mind. It's easy to talk statistics and numbers. Let's get the truth out there.

At the end of the day Serbs were killed by non Serbs. Muslims were killed by Croats, other Muslims and Serbs. Same with K-Albanians.

haha diplomatic relations hahaha what a joke! So this mean your goin to put less import tax on New Zealand lamb??? hahaha

Plus ive not read anything in the New Zealand News about them recognising Kosovo???

I even googled it and got a load of Albanian website saying this

Albanians grow up and realise joke nations recognising you = joke indipendance. Also ask me this Albania, Kosovo and Macedonia are there poorest nations balkans whys that???

Could it be you!!!

Hvala, Kosovo Je Srbija

Kosovo is in my heart and souls and no one can take that away from me, no one!

Let me see.

Has Russia or China recognised "Kosova"? Nope!
Have all EU members recognised "Kosova"? Nope!
Are other countries likely to recognise "Kosova"? Yep!
Will this change any of the above or the situation on the ground? Nope!

Even though this means little, I am a bit surprised with New Zealand. I thought it was a free thinking country that is not easily arm twisted but I suppose things have changed since Helen Clark left.

Enjoy another meaningless recognition my fellow citizens. This didn't even make the News in New Zealand - meaning the citizens don't know or even care about it.

Please if you are a Serb do not comment on this let the "illirians" talk among themselves for once, you only make them feel important by responding to their nonsense

Yes! I am a New Zealander and I am so happy that my country has decided to recognise the independence of Kosovo. I for one was a member of the public that sent the MoFA NZ a lettet demanding that the National Government accept Kosovan independence and so they did !

When a nation of mentally challenged pompous deadbeats such as New Zealand decides to get on the Kosovo independence bandwagon it's a sure fire indicator that independence is a dead duck

thank you new zeland.soon reconigtion from israel,greece and slovakia.i think little chef{vuk}wont be in governament for long.
(hazel, 10 November 2009 10:06)

Israel, Greece, and Slovakia? Hahahahahahahahaaaaaaaaa....

Please if you are a Serb do not comment on this let the "illirians" talk among themselves for once, you only make them feel important by responding to their nonsense
(Nick d, 10 November 2009 10:21)
--
Well, even our ethnic Albanian citizens need a bit of excitement every now and then.

I'm still waiting for an announcement from the NZ government or even something in their press but nothing yet! I wonder why? Isn't it worth informing their citizens of this historic event?

What's the weather like in your part of the world? It's a bit patchy in Belgrade today. I'm sure the Serbian weather will be reported in NZ but not Kosovo's recognition?

To my fellow Serbs, rest assured that this recognition will not pass uncontested on behalf of Serbs in NZ. I am already planning to contact the Foreign Ministry tomorrow in order to get further details on the matter. Either way there will be resistance

Yes! I am a New Zealander and I am so happy that my country has decided to recognise the independence of Kosovo. I for one was a member of the public that sent the MoFA NZ a lettet demanding that the National Government accept Kosovan independence and so they did !
(Virg, Auckland , NZ, 10 November 2009 10:03)

Yeap... People who steal Maori lands - supported separatists... So - I will support independent Maori country on New Zealand!! They have much more rights to this land than You.

63 countries that's it ? By this time albanians thought they would be recognized by 150 countries even the acting so called government in Pristina said they were disappointed with how small recognition it got, now albanians are pretty much begging for anyone to recognize them. Pathetic Kosovo will never be part of UN or any major organization with only 63 countries recognizing it. China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!

Yes! I am a New Zealander and I am so happy that my country has decided to recognise the independence of Kosovo. I for one was a member of the public that sent the MoFA NZ a lettet demanding that the National Government accept Kosovan independence and so they did !
(Virg, Auckland , NZ, 10 November 2009 10:03)

Do you really think that you had something to do with this?

Even as far as NZ, the Albanians are delusional.

I had a feeling that NZ will go down this road after Helen's loss. I guess she had to lose for this to happen.

When people are thanking New Zealand it might be a good idea to get the name of their country right and not call them "New Zeeland" - just a thought!

This doesn't surprise me at all and makes sense given their global ties.

But Ian UK: "Cheers NZ, thank you. Ever little helps!..."

It's absolutely your right to support the 'cause' and you must feel comfortable on your bandwagon, but I just wonder why?

I am not Serbian but English, and my stance against independence is based on the trashing of international law and the disrespect of sovereign boundaries which I believe will create a serious worldwide problem and see the end of the UN. Not to mention chaos on our own doortep in Europe.

You are pro 'independence' why exactly, if you don't mind me asking? Based on you having met one Albanian from Kosovo via your Dad's charity? Does he know you're using his computer?

And yet you claim to be one of the rare Scots who are not in favour of Scottish independence? How can one tally with the other?

But whatever floats your boat...

Even though the NZ government 'officials' have long since spent the contents of the brown envelope they received from the USfor this sick recognition stunt, it must have taken them this long to locate Kosovo on the map.

Very sad!

MB,Ireland

So glad I didn't vote here in NZ. It was so obvious John Key was going to win and I expected him to be a major sellout.

The only surprise is the delay. I was expecting recognition right after Australia.

As a Serb who spent more than half of his life in New Zealand I can tell you a most kiwis don't know where Serbia is, how will they know where Kosovo is? Only a few know about Croatia and that's about it for the Balkans for the average kiwi.

This recognition will change nothing on the ground, its just one politician getting paid in a far away country.

"Have Russia or China recognized us ? Who cares we dont need them as long as we got US and GB on our side.

(Demi, 10 November 2009 11:54) "

Then enjoy being left out in the cold, barred from the UN permanently. Be like Taiwan. Actually not even like Taiwan. Taiwan is rich and don't depend on the West for handouts unlike "Kosova".

Another democratic country recognizes Kosova.There is more to come.
Thanks New Zeland.

Thank you New Zealand. This is it. We hope much that other five European countries will recognise Kosovo soon, knowing that all 25 other EU members did .

yes your a albanian so try again and we all laugh at you, because you cant even spell new zealander but anyway, new zealanders dont know where is kosovo until you say serbia and they have no clue who are where albanians are from lol so this says it all, and if you dont also know this the biggest countries on earth say no recognition, and montenegro is planning to back out of this recognition and i could say your all celebrating for nothing.

The recognition from NZ, one of the most liberal and free nations in the world, is more important then those from 50 dictatorships. The decision for NZ to announce this now at such a crucial time is another devastating defeat for Belgrade and clear signal where the ICJ will go. A going back is for sure undoable.

Thank you, New Zealand! One time I will visit this absolutely beautiful country.

Cheers!!

BTW: we lost count on how many countries recognised and/or competing-to-recognise us.
(PRN, 10 November 2009 10:13)
--
Let me help you PRN, after 63 comes 64. If you add another arm twist it becomes 65. But don't worry, you are almost at the end of your count so only a few more numbers to learn.

BTW, what's the weather like in your part of the world? I bet that gets reported in New Zealand.

Cheers NZ, thank you. Ever little helps!

Diplomatic relations too
:p

@virg

I bet you as many other Newzealenders don't have a clue where Kosovo is.

No big deal! It's all up to Serbia. Serbian word is the last one to hear in all this mess caused by Kosovo illegal independence and we all know Serbian attitude won't change for a bit.

"Well, another American puppet state in action.

(dean van der serbia, 10 November 2009 14:30)

Whenever an additional country recognizes Kosovo this seems to be the standard Serbian comment.

As for American influence in the world we are doing just great. The number of puppet states is constantly increasing. Who said that the USA is in decline?
(Joe, 10 November 2009 16:09) ..."


>>> Well, NZ just have proved that it is one MEGA puppet state in the puppet puppy action.

OK, let's shortly analise the "Independence" of this,action?
Just today (or yesterday) on November 10th, Kiwi politicians somewhere "down under" suddenly realized that on their daily political agenda should be urgently the question of recognition of Kosovo, for which 99% of Kiwis neither the same percentage of their politicians do not even have a slight idea where it is?

Sounds logical indeed?
Man would be "really" fundamentally psychotic if he, she it would connect it with the soon coming of ICJ hearings on the matter "Serbia against Kosovo unilaterally proclaimed Independence" and the start of the US dirty campaigning, bullying and putting the pressure on ICJ Court and judges and relevant puppet states?Suuuuuuuuure.

And concerning the US influence in the World on the puppet states...it is surely still there.
Just unfortunately for US bully political hegemony there is very very much growing number of the countries who will permanently oppose US political neocolonial bully.
China, Russia, India, Brazil and hundreds more are ringing the bell?

"Dominant" US say still exist in "tropical states"...Chiquita banana Dominican Republic, Kiwiland...
Sure part of obeyable EU is in line too...and that would be just about it.

As well for US political bully..."finito"...soon to be over.

Thank you New Zeland
God bless you and your and peace loving nations!

Some countries appear not to care about ICJ.
Or perhaps they 'forgot' that they have to wait for 'famous' ICJ ruling.

Poor Jeremic,... soon he will be left jobless.

BTW: we lost count on how many countries recognised and/or competing-to-recognise us.

Some of my Serb frinds were joking the other day with Jeremics' speach in EC, saying" He mentioned Kosovo, now a recognition will come from somewhere". And what happened feq days later ...

Well done New Zeland.

NZ recognizes - I have just one word for that - so? Albanian Kosovo is still not an independent state, is it? If the internationals were to leave, including their armies, how long would independent Albanian Kosovo exist?

Great news for Kosovo people.

Zoran,

Have Russia or China recognized us ? Who cares we dont need them as long as we got US and GB on our side. Have all EU members recognized us. No but those 5 who hasen't cannot stop Kosovo from nothing because they have to obey the other 22 EU states who has recognized Kosovo. That is how it works in a democratic sociaty and the majority rules.

Will Serbia be a EU member? Nope as long as 22 eu countrys dosen't allow that because Serbia has to recognize Kosovo. A fact that we all know will come. Just as we knew that Kosovo would declare independence.


Kosovo is Serbia is now just a bad dream. Kosovo got it's own strong goverment wich are handeling the country very well.


Cheers to New Zeeland I thank you for your recognition. I hope many more will follow your good example.

Why? At this point, it's such a useless and redundant thing to do.

there is no way going back for you serbs kosovo is your home too. thank you new zealand

victory for kosova in ICJ thank you NZ god bless you

thank you new zeland.soon reconigtion from israel,greece and slovakia.i think little chef{vuk}wont be in governament for long.

Congratulations to our eastern little brothers the Kiwis for establishing new relations for peace.
Just for a clearification, Australia has way more sheep than New Zealand. Hope their weaker doller sincronises with ours instead of that asio currency that would just suck.

Ps: and people wanted Montenegro to withdraw their recognition yesterday :)

"Please if you are a Serb do not comment on this"

Ummmmm...isn't this a Serbian site?

And for those that think the positions of Russia and China don't matter are very delusional.

denis:

You are really brave when you have someone fight for you. Don't worry dennis we will liberate our land when the time is right.

Well, another American puppet state in action.

Though I understand the connection between kiwis and bananas...they are both tropical fruits, I believe or not(?)...Kiwi Ambassador to be send home shortest notice and first flight due to the "recognition" of the banana state.

It is obvious that US already has started its dirty work to influence ICJ judges before the hearings even started.

China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!
(Gagi, 10 November 2009 15:58)

130 on Serbia side eh? There were 131 the day before yesterday. How many more you think will keep being on Serbia side and for how long?

Virg,

I thank you and your people for recognizing the will of the Kosovars.
Greetings from Kosova.

vuk jeremic said some days ago that no other recognition will come? it is clear now that jeremic is a liar

ps: thanks to to the great and democratic nation of new zealand for the recognition

And yet you claim to be one of the rare Scots who are not in favour of Scottish independence? How can one tally with the other?
(kate, 10 November 2009 12:58)
--
I'm fairly sure I read Ian supporting Scottish independence. Is he now claiming otherwise?

Here is the text regarding the appointment of the "Kosovo Ambassador to London" as the representitive to NZ but resident in London. No explicit recognition and no mention of it on the New Zealand Ministry of Foreign Affairs web site- Check http://www.mfat.govt.nz/ so I'm wondering whether this is a half hearted attempt at keeping the US happy?

What's the weather like in your part of the world? It's a bit patchy in Belgrade today. I'm sure the Serbian weather will be reported in NZ but not Kosovo's recognition?
(Zoran, 10 November 2009 11:50)

Well more power to Serbia to focus on the weather .....

You laughed at us when we protested with two fingers up your represive regime, you laughed at us when we disobeyed your dictatorial state led by Milosevic, you laughed at us when we built paralel structures to run our life, you laughed at us when we protested peacefully for 10 years, you laughed at us when we picked up arms to fight for our rights, and you laughed at us when we declared independence..... well not sure who should laugh at whom?

We have achieved a lot of our goals, we got rid of Serb control over Kosovo, and it seems like that will stay like that for a very long time. Next, slowly but surely we will build a solid state and an army so the next time you will face an adversary of the same level. We are not far from the final finish, and we are persistent and our resolve will never fade.

Have Russia or China recognized us ? Who cares we dont need them as long as we got US and GB on our side.

(Demi, 10 November 2009 11:54) "

GB on your side?? I live in the GB and I can honestly say that if 5% of the UK population has any idea about Kosovo and Serbia then I would be suprised. I am appalled, as would many be if they new the facts, that our so called democratically elected government has chosen to recognise this illegal declaration. Please be under no illusion that this means the UK is on your side. All it means is that one UK Prime Minister after another has dutifully dropped his trousers and turned his back towards the US and waited for the inevitable! I only hope that the ICJ is strong enough to remain true to its principles and not be manipulated by the US in the same way as our PM.

Even though the NZ government 'officials' have long since spent the contents of the brown envelope they received from the USfor this sick recognition stunt, it must have taken them this long to locate Kosovo on the map.

Very sad!

MB,Ireland
(Micheal Breathnach, 10 November 2009 13:17)

Have you heard of the NIS envelope that Russia got from Serbia?

Very,very sad!

A very poetic comment Denis, but I'm afraid you missed the irony in your own words:

"You laughed at us when we protested with two fingers up your represive regime"

-- And you're getting angry when Serbs return with a three-finger raise against the repressive and organized criminal Albanian led regime in Pristina.

"you laughed at us when we disobeyed your dictatorial state led by Milosevic"

-- You get angry when K Serbs fly the Serbian flag, look to Belgrade, and refuse to integrate into your "state"

"you laughed at us when we built paralel structures to run our life"

-- You call for US intervention to overthrow the parallel Serb structures in Kosovska Mitrovica and Gracanica. You call for the expulsion of Serbs who are not loyal to this "state". You call for KEK to shut the power off. You call for KPS to fire Serbs.

"you laughed at us when we protested peacefully for 10 years"

-- You scoff at Serbs who "live in the past" and fail to see the "reality" you ascribe to.

"you laughed at us when we picked up arms to fight for our rights"

-- You call for KFOR to establish order north of the Ibar because you can't do it.

"and you laughed at us when we declared independence....."

-- And you continue to refuse to acknowledge that after November 15, at least 6 Serb-led municipalities will have little to nothing to do with that independence.

It's nice that you paint such a poetic picture of your side's apparent perennial struggle for survival, but like most things poetically woven to argue a point, it's largely exaggerated and fails to recognize similar practices are present in the reverse. One side struggles for freedom against collectively perceived fascism. Whether you know it or not, whether you believe it or not, to the K Serb, your side has now inherited the mantle of Milošević.

This recognition certainly sucks, but comes as no surprise.

In the greater picture, it changes nothing other than another loyal US ally following in the footsteps of the master. As China and Russia remain steadfast allies of Serbia, along with Spain, Cyrus, Greece, Slovakia and Romania, the albanians remain DOA.

So albanians, enjoy the fruit of the day...they are numbered.

As a New Zealander, I would like to say sorry on behalf of educated New Zealanders for the ill-minded decision by our idiotic "leader". He does not represent our country in any real sense, and I hope you will understand that it was another idiot politician trying to score points with the "west". Ja volem Serpski

New Zealand has a judge in the ICJ, this brings 8 (eight) out of 15 to our side.

New Zealand did a great decision on the right time just 3 weeks before the unjustified process in the ICJ will start.

Just a question.Why nobody asked Serbia first before Kosovo declared is legal and justified independent (LJI) and it was recognized by so many country?

Well, another American puppet state in action.

(dean van der serbia, 10 November 2009 14:30)

Whenever an additional country recognizes Kosovo this seems to be the standard Serbian comment.

As for American influence in the world we are doing just great. The number of puppet states is constantly increasing. Who said that the USA is in decline?

aRTA - You are right. 8 out of the 15 judges are from countries which recognise Kosovo.

But how many judges will you have next year? Their term is 9 years and at least 3 of your "supporting" judges have their term expiring THIS year, but the ICJ ruling isn't due until 2010/11. So to be conservative I'd say that the score is currently 7 to 5 in Serbia's favour. Come on VUk, get some friendly judges into those seats.

(Virg, Auckland , NZ, 10 November 2009 10:03)

Thank you Virg!!!

Thank you NZ!

From a proud ILIRIAN.
ben

Of all the Governments the New Zealand Government will look the most foolish when the ICJ rules that Kosovo’s unilateral independence is illegal.
The second phase strategy for the Serbian Government after they receive their ICJ opinion is to sue all none EU states for illegally recognizing Kosovo. New Zealand should be the first one sued. Followed by the United States and Canada, however I think Canada will be among the first nations to revoke recognition. Followed by Montenegro, Macedonia and Bulgaria.

As for your theory that KPS and K. Albanians are out in arms murdering K. Serbs, I would love for you (no, I beg of you!) to show me some evidence, because that is a serious statement.


Good day to you all.
(Jetoni, US, 11 November 2009 12:53)

Only one question will give you enough evidence.

How many Serb murders have been solved so far and has anyone been found guilty of destroying Serbian cemetaries?

None is the answer. Now if that is not evidence of K-Albanians getting away with murder with help from KPS (KLA)then I don't know what is.

Where have you been all this time? Where were you in 2004?
How many Serbs have been murdered since the war ended and you want more evidence. If you cannot see any of this then you won't see any more. All your lengthy comments which resemble War and Peace don't have a shread of truth in them.

Let the Albanians enjoy this "recognition".
The most important thing is that UN1244 confirms Kosovo is Serbia,that Russia and China will veto any change,that four EU countries will forever block any submission to EU and NATO and other organizations which will keep the Albanians in our Southern province locked up like in a prison.
And we will keep it that way.

Someone of them spouted how they have a big resolve,how they will build an army bla,bla...
We saw it in 1999 then your army was crashed and one million Albanians fled our southern province...
Believe me,you are on life support of the USA,that is the only thing that is ensuring your existence
(not even the EU since they are pacifistic and don`t have the stomach to fight for themselves,yet alone Albanians)...
Once they leave ,there will be game over for you Albanians,once and for all.
We Serbs are very patient people and can wait very,very long and we always achieve our goals,sooner or later.

Looks like Bill Clinton's visit in Prishtina is paying of.
He is back to work,by making phone calls.

It is obvious that US already has started its dirty work to influence ICJ judges before the hearings even started.
(dean van der serbia, 10 November 2009 14:30)
And I suppose some way you have proof of that.
Sounds more like the losing team preparing the "they only won because of crooked referees" defense!

When did this become an Albanian site cause they sure enjoy posting.New Zealand? Wow so what the second any outsiders leave Kosovo-Metohija is Serbian.Theft is theft nothing changes that.Those minerals under Kosmet belong to Serbs and not the globalists.

This is very true comment

"China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!"

The Albanians waited 5 months for a single recognition! And this New Zealand recognition should've occured when Australia and the other imperialist lackeys recognized the fake and illegal UDI.

Talk about desperation.

Serbs and Albanians: stop sending comments, I will summarize them for you.

Serbs: lalala, Russia, China, puppet state.

Albanians: thank you the glorious nations of ( insert country), ICJ we no care.

All is said here.

This is not a vote of nations. Who cares who 'recognises'?

Albanian has its territorial borders and Kosovo is in Serbia.

Trying to insert a flee-bite in the middle is an artificial construct that cannot sustain.

History is not over yet.

Roberto wrote:

"I am sooooo pleased. thank you to the people of New Zealand!! pleased for the people of Kosovo/a, pleased for the freedom-loving people of the world. it's another great victory, and yes, sometimes victory is sweet."

People of NZ had nothing to do with this. They weren't even asked.

im from new zealand i live in london . no one asked me ? i would of said no . new zealand is one of the top 5 most modern countrys in the world ... just to clear that up for all the people now starting to slag us off ... youve probably never even left old fashioned europe . take care .

Jetoni, you bring up the issue of Serbia not giving adequate sentences to the criminals they caught.

OK, what sentences have been given to Albanian criminals?
Oh, wait. None. Why? Because none have been caught.

Don't you dare point a finger at the way Serbia is dealing with criminals when nobody is even looking for criminals in K-Albanian community.

When K-Albanians start arresting and sentencing their own for war crimes then and only then can you compare who is dishing out justice and who isn't. Until then, a little less talk of a brilliant system and a bit more action would be better.

And please, don't answer this comment as you said you souldn't because frankly all we get from you is a lot of hot air. No substance at all.

I challenge you to show me where your Albanian system in Kosovo works for the Serbs and you come up with a challenge for me to show you where it doesn't. I just did. No criminals even arrested yet, let alone sentenced. How is that for a system not working?

So before you divert to Serbia, which is arresting and sentencing, pay attention what Albanians are NOT doing.

New Zealand is a small insignificant country that is an economic mess. Its last hurrah was in the 1980s when it refused to allow US ships carrying nuke weapons into its harbours. Since then its been going down hill, its privatised nearly everything government owned, its standard of living has dropped substantially, more of its people leave each year for Australia looking for jobs.

So you can see that it had no choice but to recognise Kosovo. Since the 1980s the US has made sure its nothing but a backwater for its audacity to refuse its military vessles. However, that does not answer the eternal burning question, where will Kosovars find work? Who will invest in Kosovo? When will this investment occur and how much?

Not one answer so far. Enjoy your prison Kosovars!

Jetoni,
Do you think that the more words you write the smarter your argument is?

If one was to answer all your accusations we would need a forum set up especially to address what you wrote in detail.

Summary, you sure wrote a lot of garbage.

KPS is oppressive just like a lot of K-Albanians. They don't have to go in and brutally kill Serbs now. They have already done the damage when they were KLA and now have the civilians doing their dirty job for them.
Look the other way, don't look for who done it, even if it is murder and claim you are not opressive.

I am sooooo pleased. thank you to the people of New Zealand!! pleased for the people of Kosovo/a, pleased for the freedom-loving people of the world. it's another great victory, and yes, sometimes victory is sweet.

also, i promised way, way back that when we rec'd each recognition, i would remain 100% positive...

these day to day events can be difficult, monotonous, oppressive. but this stretching out of the recognitions has really worked to our advantage, ironically, and sometimes that's just the way things go.

at any rate, it's time for all of us to look forward, not backward. i do believe in an unrelenting examination of the past -- of trying "alleged" war criminals, demanding reparations when appropriate, promoting refugee return... lots of hard work remains, and yet at the same time we need to learn to live together, to grow forward together, despite and because of the past.

it can happen.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

I bet you as many other Newzealenders don't have a clue where Serbia is.
--
Thank you so much New Zeland
My next holiday is in New Zeland.

I remember when Helen Clark was NZ PM and they were not going to recognise Kosovo, Albanians had nothing nice to say about NZ. Saying things like how they don't need NZ who only have sheep etc was a common comment.

It's amazing how all of a sudden they love NZ. Wait till next election, you just may hate them again.

roberto
frisco
(roberto, 10 November 2009 21:41)

I always get a good laugh when I read statements like “the freedom-loving people of the world”, “democracy’ ‘free speech” and so on. It sounds so 1950s that only the very backward tend to recite these clichés.

In my experience this is usually mouthed by immigrants that have arrived thinking the streets of US are paved with gold but, as Michael Moore said, they end up as hotel room cleaners, janitors etc., or to use the proper terminology end up as the working poor – the ones that have 2/3 jobs and still can’t make ends meet, but continue to espouse the greatness of USA.

Here is a promise you will remember for a long time – Kosova is going nowhere and no one will invest in it, no jobs, no banks will lend your government money, US only wants the base and not Kosvars .

So Roberto, enjoy your moments of joy now, but the Serbs will have the last laugh.

Ciao
sj

Milosevic was openly and proudly aiming at removing anything "Albanian" in Kosovo.

but I don't believe rational Serbs would assume this is official Kosovo government policy.
(Ment, 10 November 2009 19:48)
--
Who are you trying to fool? It is ethnic Albanian policy to remove everything Serbian and we constantly hear about it here from ethnic Albanians themselves. Half of the Serbian population has been ethnically cleansed or murdered, houses burnt, churches destroyed, graves desecrated and the list goes on. Pristina is not doing anything to help Serbians return.

Milosevic was cracking down on terrorist activity and ethnic Albanians were firmly in Kosovo until NATO started bombing. You can keep your propaganda and lies to yourself.

Love this saying:

'China Russia India along with 130 others all on Serbia's side. Kosovo is Serbian!'

Hold in there Serbs in Kosovo you are the true heroes standing up to illegal independence you will never be forgot. Serbia, Repulic of Srspka,Russia,China,India,Spain,Israel and many others are with you. God bless all the Serb children in Kosovo!

what a disappointment

shame on you John Key!! to put a shame on New Zealand

not that many NZlanders will know Kosovo issue in depth but those who do are deeply distresed and ashamed

most damaging decision for NZ so far
never vote National again !!!

I have been searching the web for news out of NZ to confirm this recognition announcement by the K_Albanians, but with no success. Did Pristina confuse New Zealand with Jersey? I have checked the NZ Herald's world section, political section, and national section, and not one mention of anything to do with Kosovo. I'll check the cartoon section next, and keep you all in tune.

It doesn't seem even one New Zealand newspaper reported this event and it's not even mentioned on the Ministry of Foreign Affairs and Trade site. I mean, it seems less people in New Zealand know about this shameful act than there are ethnic Albanians here thanking them. Why hasn't the New Zealand government announced anything? Why hasn't the media reported it? It's really only Albanian media while Google reports 4 articles.

There is nothing democratic or free thinking about this recognition. It seems to have been done in secret with effort made to keep everything quiet. I wonder why?

First of all:Thank you NZ!

NZ is 63th country that recognized Kosova.In every recognition that was put here in www.b92.net/eng... serbs were angry and they wrote everything against these countries! Why? because they know : countries that are recognition Kosovo are rising and the countries that "support" Serbia are falling down:S Kosova waits for new recognition.

New Zealand has a judge in the ICJ, this brings 8 (eight) out of 15 to our side.
(aRTa, 10 November 2009 13:06)

So what.

Judges uphold laws, not do politicians' bidding.
ICJ judges will uphold international law because that's what they are there for. Even if this Kiwi judge uphold NZ law it still would not make it legal at ICJ.

So what is so good about a NZ judge being there?

Jasen D. Bruce allegedly hit 29-year-old Alexios Marakis over the head with a tire iron and chased him for three blocks Monday evening before Tampa police officers intervened.

Marakis, a Greek Orthodox priest visiting from Crete, told police he had stopped to ask the 28-year-old reservist for help after getting lost in downtown Tampa. He had just performed a blessing of another priest and accidentally got off the highway.

Marakis approached Bruce as he was unloading his dry-cleaning, police said.

"Please, please help," Marakis said to Bruce in his limited English.

Bruce pulled out a tire iron and attacked the priest, police said. He then called 911 as he chased Marakis, saying an Arabic man was trying to rob him. When officers arrived, Bruce told them the man was a terrorist.

Bruce also told police he heard Marakis yell, "Allahu akbar!" — Arabic for "God is great," according to Tampa police spokeswoman Laura McElroy.

Marakis, however, does not speak Arabic, McElroy said. He speaks Greek.

Police are working to determine if the offense meets the standard for a hate crime.

Authorities could not immediately provide the name of Bruce's attorney.

NZ recognizes - I have just one word for that - so? Albanian Kosovo is still not an independent state, is it? If the internationals were to leave, including their armies, how long would independent Albanian Kosovo exist?
(svojgazda, 10 November 2009 18:56)
A very true statement!! Now wonder why no one in the world is advocating removing 1244 and returning to Serbian control?

How many more you think will keep being on Serbia side and for how long?
(Mark, 10 November 2009 18:14)
--
Enough to ensure Kosovo never becomes independent. This whole recognition process is a waste of time and so is the ICJ judgement. Whatever the International court decides may mean a few extra insignificant recognitions either revoked or made.

The ICJ decision, if it goes against Serbia will not change much in Kosovo but will likely stir trouble in Bosnia and with other seperatist movements around the world. It is a double edged sword so be careful what you wish for.

your side has now inherited the mantle of Milošević.
(Mike, 10 November 2009 18:21)

Indeed - and who was the founder of communist "Lëvizja Popullore e Kosovës"? Oh, no, wasn't it Hashim Thaçi? There is no such thing as "ex-communist", "ex-terrorist", "ex-fascist". But as usual with clever communists, H.T. played his cards smarter as the party he did find. One thing a clever communist does not need is the backbone.

Like in the old joke about lawyers

One shark asks an other:
- "what did you eat today?"
- "a lawyer"
- "how you know, it was a lawyer?"
- "he had no skin on his face and no backbone"

Jetoni,

No need to apologize at all. It was a nice change of pace to read a comment that was critical, but constructive at the same time (sad that they are few and far between). And yes, it is unfortunate that moderates, who certainly can disagree with one another, risk being lumped in with the trolls here. I disregard almost all of the Albanian hyper nationalists, and at the same time almost always find something insightful from village-bey, louie, genc, Ment, and you. Though sadly the nationalists tend to drown out the more pragmatic voices.

Anyways, we are on the same page, albeit starting with different paragraphs. Feel free to critique anytime. It's the only way both sides can finally get through the lobotomized BS.

And yes this is supposed to be a Serbian site but it is hard to tell sometimes

New Zealand becomes the 63rd country to recognize Kosovo. When I want to consider which countries have ethical governments, I know that None of those 63 countries would apply to the matter.

Also I believe Kosovo's declaration of independence to be in line with international law according to UNSC Res 1244, which includes resolving the final status of Kosovo during UN administration, which has been achieved through the plan by former UN Sec Gen Ahtisaari.
(Ian, UK, 10 November 2009 19:17)

Ian,

Ahtisaari has never been UN Sec Gen. It was his representative. It seems that your knowledge on the subject is very much in line (limited) what your govermant brodcast on the TV.

I think it's strange that on such a happy day, 1 recognition in last 6 months all albanians can do is think and talk about Vuk. Strange and also funny. Hang in there albanians only 130 countries, UN and Zubin Potok left to recognise your little frozen thing :))

Slowly but surly. Thanx New Zeland.

Also I don't understand why you guys bring up 2004 when more Albanians got killed then Serbs but also forgot to mention 1999.

(kate, 10 November 2009 12:58)

I am an Englishman living in Wales; not a Scot. I have never claimed to be a Scot. I'm using my own laptop which I bought and I am using the internet which is in my name and which I pay for. I support Kosovo's independence because I support Kosovo's right to self determination. I would also not oppose the independence of Scotland or Wales if the majority of them wanted it. Also I believe Kosovo's declaration of independence to be in line with international law according to UNSC Res 1244, which includes resolving the final status of Kosovo during UN administration, which has been achieved through the plan by former UN Sec Gen Ahtisaari.

On another point, I think it is worth pointing out that New Zealand has not recognised Kosovo as a Serbian province since 18th Feb 2008. Before yesterday, NZ did not recognise Kosovo as independent or a Serbian province, but as disputed territory. NZ finally faced reality.

“Why? At this point, it's such a useless and redundant thing to do. ”
- Care to elaborate? I would appreciate that, since I must be missing something. It's in every sovereign state's right to recognize (or not) another entity as a state. And frankly, it's all a number's game from here on in – the countries that have the capability to make things happen have already chimed in with their two cents and took the side of Kosovar Albanians (most of western countries). Sure, we have a few influential states that haven't gotten in the same bandwagon, but I would not dismiss them as useless or irrelevant (Russia, China, India, Brazil, just to name a few). But calling most of the west irrelevant would and should warrant a reality check. Again, I must be missing something, which I hope you can explain.

“And you're getting angry when Serbs return with a three-finger raise against the repressive and organized criminal Albanian led regime in Pristina. “
- Angry? Hardly. Repressive regime? Give me a break – when was the last time KPS and KSF went to the K. Serb population and slaughtered them? Jeez, time to ease it with the rakia/loza/slivovica Mike.


“You get angry when K Serbs fly the Serbian flag, look to Belgrade, and refuse to integrate into your "state"”
- Again, not really angry. I think K. Albanian population give as much of a damn about K. Serbs integrating, as Serbs cared about K. Albanians in Kosova/o being a part of Yugoslav/Serbian society. Annoying? Yes. Losing sleep over it? Don't think so. This is not to say we wouldn't want K. Serbs in our ranks and actually working to bettering the lives of people, as opposed to concentrating energy on ridiculous endeavors of pleasing a handful of wanton K. Serbs. This is a two way street – the K. Albanian's hand is there – it's up to K. Serbs to reach and grab it.


“You call for US intervention to overthrow the parallel Serb structures in Kosovska Mitrovica and Gracanica. You call for the expulsion of Serbs who are not loyal to this "state". You call for KEK to shut the power off. You call for KPS to fire Serbs. ”
- I don't think there has been a request to any international body to get up in arms and crush these parallel structures – and why would there be? These parallel structures are about as effective as the K. Albanian parallel structures in the 90's. And really, how hard would it be to forcefully eliminate these structures from Gracanica for example (I acknowledge the fact the northern part wouldn't be as easy)? Would it be worth it? It comes down to simple reasoning, and it is self evident.
As for KEK – oh please, are you that desperate to throw dirt at K. Albanians that refusal to pay the bills by some K. Serbs is some conspiracy that K. Albanians want to punish/exterminate them? Get a grip man! They refuse to pay for the service consumed – they obviously would pay (per their officials' claim) EPS or whomever, as long as it isn't KEK, however, they have no problem consuming KEK's services. No payment – no services. Doesn't require a nuclear physicists to sort this out.
As for Serb officers in KPS, there is something bigger at stake than their protests of what letterhead they don't like their paycheks to be in (and they had no problem cashing those checks, did they Mike?). To quote Mr. Cheeseburger 9000; “Police officers, just like doctors, have a special duty to the population that does not and should not take into consideration either politics or other extraneous issues.  Police are sworn to protect the population fairly;  they are not politicians, and for very good reason. In the case of the Kosovar Serb Police, they were sworn to protect the Albanians, the Serbs, the Turks, etc.  But instead of following their oath and displaying commitment to their profession, the Kosovar Serb Police decided to put politics over what is right.” (link; http://mrcheeseburger9000.wordpress.com/2008/02/29/serbs-desert-their-kps-posts-ridiculous/).


“You call for KFOR to establish order north of the Ibar because you can't do it. ”.
“And you continue to refuse to acknowledge that after November 15, at least 6 Serb-led municipalities will have little to nothing to do with that independence. ”
- I am glad KPS and KSF don't go there to establish control, since you and I are very well aware of the potential bloodshed it would cause. So why do that? Is it worth it? Enough blood has been spilled for nothing already, we can stay without any more people being killed, thank you very much. Things will fall into place with time – what the Kosovar gov't needs to focus on is the economy and rule of law – that in the end will be the incentive to have the K. Serb minority to integrate. Will it be perfect? Of course not. But at least it's light years away from people getting repressed, matreated and slaughtered with impunity (K. Albanians didn't quite have this luxury, did they Mike?).


Look, your sympathies lie with the Serb side (it's not like it's a secret), and that is fine – we are all guilty of being biased to some degree (myself included obviously) – it's unavoidable. But when you're taking jabs/ cheap shots at the other side and oftentimes making sweeping generalizations, it's not helpful to anybody. If you want to fall in the ranks of brainless nationalistic minions, then more power to you. However, I used to regard your comments much higher than that of Ratko, PRN, etc. threw in – I'd really like to see the old Mike back (I am not holding my breath though…).

It has been a while since the last recognition, must admit it is a proper country finally rather than some funny US island in the Pacific that apparantly classes itself as a state with it's population of 2.

I don't think it will mean much, however, a recognition from China, Russia, Spain, Romania, Slovakia, Greece and Cyprus will be more important for them though.

Fact is they are running themselves (not very well, being by far the poorest "state" in Europe, but anyway) and are not under Belgrade's government anymore, it will remain your standard "independent, yet unrecognized state" like Palestine, Taiwan, Sahrawi Arab Republic etc. ie. another black hole, pity it's in Europe though.

Mike,

First, I must apologize for my post yesterday- it had a bit of a confrontational and maybe even a cynical tone – this was in part of the a bad case of the Tuesdays and your post having a whiff of Kool-aid. I hope no offense was taken, as none was intended.

Now, to your points;

1.We're on the same page. Most of these recognitions after the first sudden wave of over a year ago are for brownie points really – Having the US and Western EU on board is really all that is needed to get some serious work done and pull ahead (as for the actual work, that is another story).

2.Intimidated/harassed/profiled – while I have no first hand accounts or reliable sources on this, that doesn't mean it doesn't occur, and frankly, given the circumstances, I am not surprised and in all likelihood things like that do occur. However, even in here in the good 'ole US and Western EU, the law enforcement is prone to doing exactly those things, though relatively compared, I would say it probably isn't as rampant as it would be in Kosova/o. Of course, as you point out, we're dealing with a bitter population that has experienced enough a decade ago, so in Balkan and emotional speak, it isn't too surprising. Is it right? Of course not, but I just don't like it when I and a lot of other people sharing similar views as me are lumped in the same category as wanting to destroy all Serbdom in sight. I don't support or condone this kind of behavior.

3.The politicians are just that – whores in suits, and K. Albanians certainly don't have a monopoly in this field. They need anything and everything to bring forward to win. Is it that surprising? While I personally would like the northern and other parts to fully integrate, I try to see things from their point of view, and just leave them alone for the time being. When things cool down, and efforts have been put into real issues (economy, rule of law, minimizing corruption, etc.), then that would be something tangible that any community would have a reason to participate. As for K. Albanian's hand being there for K. Serbs to grab on to – sure, it takes more than that, but I would have to ask – exactly what? For all the Kosovar gov'ts fault, they have taken some steps in trying to build some trust with K. Serb population – rebuilding of houses, giving tractors … things like that. Is it enough? It hardly ever is. Is it fair? Ask other Kosovar communities about that. It is a bit of a complicated issue – one where I would really like to hear practical and constructive arguments for this to work (so, I am all ears).

4.We're on the same page here.

5.I do not work for KEK, nor the Kosovar gov't, so I can't say for sure. Is it possible that KEK could be used as a tool? Of course it is. Has it been? I don't know. However, the very simple fact is, KEK is there to make money. Yes it is a monopoly, but so is Con Edison. KEK, with their bad service, offered their service such as it is, and K. Serbs consumed these services. Goods and services cost money, and people who work at the organization producing these things need to earn a living, and so on so forth. Thus, one pays for what they consume – it's (I hope) pretty simple to see this. However, quite a few K. Serbs refuse to strike a deal (a lump sum of less than 30 euros up front, then take care of the rest of the balance in the future), because somehow that is recognizing Kosovar independence (this is faulty logic, since consuming said services would imply recognition in the first place, if that were the case), not because of monetary issues. I really don't think it's about politics than it is more about getting something for free (instances where they happen all over the globe, just excuses are different), but we have drones here that can't see past that.
6.While there are members of KLA in the service, most places where there is a Serb dominated area, the officers are Serbs, so they would go about looking after their own affairs. Of course, it's not black and white, but the point that serving the public good should not be mixed with politics – this is something most rational people would agree with I hope. If there are conflicts with politics and doing the job, the sensible thing to do is quit the position so that someone else who is qualified and has no issues with public service and politics can serve better – this is in my humble opinion the way to go about it. Anything else is morally questionable.
7.We're on the same page here as well.
8.Refer to the opening paragraph. Threads lately have become littered with people with a lot of free time on their hands that have no better things to do than preach “my e-penis is bigger than yours” with Kosova/o as the synonym. I used to look forward to posts by Matthew, bganon, yours, and a handful of others that had something concrete, substantial and interesting to say. I want that back. That absence has been filled with people who truly bring the worst that Balkans has to offer, and it has become old and annoying (hence why I rarely post anymore – there just isn't any point, and I have no desire or the time to feed the trolls).

Peggy,

It's my policy not to feed trolls, but I will try to constructively address your response.

“Do you think that the more words you write the smarter your argument is? ”
-If said words are part of sentences whose content is that of an argument making a clear, concise and constructive point, I would say it's helpful, not necessary smarter. But if you find some holes in my arguments with some facts, I'd be delighted to read them.

“If one was to answer all your accusations we would need a forum set up especially to address what you wrote in detail. ”
-I didn't really accuse anyone of anything – it was merely an exchange of arguments. But if you're saying that the points would be best discussed in detail and in a dedicated place, then I would agree with you.

“Summary, you sure wrote a lot of garbage. ”
-Well, it isn't my problem if people choose to ignore comprehending what I wrote, be oblivious or put their head in the sand because you don't have any valid and constructive counter arguments. Besides, other more mature and respectable folks here would most probably disagree with you, so you can move right along and get your dose of “kocobo je serbija” kool-aid.

“KPS is oppressive just like a lot of K-Albanians. They don't have to go in and brutally kill Serbs now. They have already done the damage when they were KLA and now have the civilians doing their dirty job for them.
Look the other way, don't look for who done it, even if it is murder and claim you are not opressive.[sic] ”
-Well, you aren't totally off on the KPS part – if you ask an individualist anarchist, any sort of government is a form of oppression and coercion to the individual and members of a group. But I doubt you were talking about that. As for your theory that KPS and K. Albanians are out in arms murdering K. Serbs, I would love for you (no, I beg of you!) to show me some evidence, because that is a serious statement.


Good day to you all.

"there is very very much growing number of the countries who will permanently oppose US political neocolonial bully.
China, Russia, India, Brazil and hundreds more are ringing the bell?"
dean

Growing number is not enough. How much power do they have?
By the way I thought that under Bush we reached a high number of those "lovely" countries. You suggest that under friendly and accomodating Obama this number is still going higher?

What I mean is don't respond to their comments, Im not saying to not have any comment...

Mike

You're right that many of the tools being employed by the Serb minority in their resistance (for lack of a better word) are pretty much the same as the K Albs were using in the 90-s.

However, you're not right in comparing the present Kosovo government to that of Milosevic.

Milosevic was openly and proudly aiming at removing anything "Albanian" in Kosovo.

However, the same cannot be said for the Serbs in Kosovo. Yes, there are the on-and-off acts of vandalism against Serb monuments, but I don't believe rational Serbs would assume this is official Kosovo government policy.

Peggy, I think rather more constructive example would be by starting off with the question: "How many Albanians have been murdered from 82 to 99?", how many Bosniacs, Croats ? Then we could probably answer the your questions. Actually your answer would answer your question too.

Here is the short but fundamental course for Kosovo Albanian team and team of their supporters on the subject of wishfull thinking and the concept of independent legality:

I can notice the great and coordinated applaud for the Kiwi's Government decision by the Albanian team and supporters, momentarily connecting it, applying it and wishfully presuming as well that Kenneth Keith, ICJ Court hearing Judge from New Zealand will then, following the decision of his Government, rule in Kosovo Albanian favor?
Are you aware of your lack of the concept of independent justice and the reason of arguments?

Following your simple, but fundamentally barbaric "logic", consequently ICJ should not be even starting the hearings and arguments:
8 judges originate from the countries which did recognized Kosovo "independence" and 7 from the countries which did not do so.
So it is, and over?

Very sad way of thinking, boys and girls.
And if reality proves your case and the judges advisory decisions corespondent with the Kosovo "independence" decisions by their Governments we can nicely take this institution called International Court of Justice and trow it, once and for all, into the garbage bin.

It will be interesting to see and follow. I'll be there.

Jetoni (and Ment who raised similar points),

Good comments (I even laughed at a few of them).

And for the record, I am enjoying a rather nice Asbach Uralt this evening (straight, because ice dilutes), but I hope it doesn't mar my replies:

1. "Care to elaborate? [on the issue of me calling the recognition "useless"]

-- Your own reply had the answer: at this point, it's all a numbers game. I mean can we really say that Kosovo's current situation is going to be better with NZ's recognition, or get worse without it? I've always been one who thought that Kosovo's current situation would be no different if only 10 countries recognized. It has the support of the US, the UK, Germany, and (tacitly) France. That's all that really matters. The rest of these recognitions are really icing on an already made cake. It's not like things are suddenly going to change, particularly in regards to internal sovereignty. If anything, a recognition or not provides little else other than bragging rights on this site. To the average Serb in Gracanica, or Albanian in Pristina, it’s just another day. On an equal footing, Montenegro could suddenly rescind its recognition and nothing major would happen.

2. "when was the last time KPS and KSF went to the K. Serb population and slaughtered them?"

-- Slaughtered? No. Intimidated? Harassed? Profiled? That seems more like it, and that was the parallel I drew with Milosevic's apartheid policies prior to 1999. However, I'm quite sure that given the right conditions, some of Kosovo's less savory Albanians would not hesitate to unleash pogroms to those we unfortunately witnessed in 2004, not to mention a series of revenge attacks sporadically over the last 8 - 9 years. Are we talking systemic-wide repression? No. Are we talking about too many cases of revenge attacks to make it likely powers higher up have a say in it? I have to believe it.

3. "I think K. Albanian population give as much of a damn about K. Serbs integrating, as Serbs cared about K. Albanians in Kosova/o being a part of Yugoslav/Serbian society."

-- Then we're pretty much on the same page aren't we? If you're basically saying Albanians just don't care what Serbs do/don't do (as I suspect the vast amount of K Albanians feel), why then the need for politicians in Pristina to constantly play the ethnic card and make statements of “pacifying” the north? I've always been an advocate of both sides having the freedom to be left the Hell alone. But when you write "the K. Albanian's hand is there – it's up to K. Serbs to reach and grab it", I have to respond by saying it takes a lot more than extending one's hand for the other to take it. Belgrade offered its hand after 2000 and prior to February 2008, and hardly any Albanian felt insane enough to take it. Trust is something that is sorely lacking, and no Serb is going to work with any Albanian government headed by former KLA leaders. That's just common sense.

4. "These parallel structures are about as effective as the K. Albanian parallel structures in the 90's. And really, how hard would it be to forcefully eliminate these structures from Gracanica for example (I acknowledge the fact the northern part wouldn't be as easy)? Would it be worth it? It comes down to simple reasoning"

-- Again, common sense dictates it would be a waste of time, as well as an exercise in futility. Yet for reasons that I can't explain, there seems to be this unhealthy fixation by Pristina in incorporating a community that wants nothing to do with them. Almost seems as foolish as Belgrade wanting to incorporate 2 million people that want nothing to do with them, right? Besdies, KFOR wouldn’t do it.

5. "are you that desperate to throw dirt at K. Albanians that refusal to pay the bills by some K. Serbs is some conspiracy that K. Albanians want to punish/exterminate them?"

-- That's not what I was getting at. I was simply saying that I believe KEK has been used as a tool of benign political pressure by Pristina to get the Serbs under their control. This issue alone can easily turn into a back and forth argument as has happened on this site, but suffice to say that unless I'm misinformed, I wonder whether the heavy hand of KEK is equally applied to non-paying Albanians too. If, hypothetically, EPS somehow steps in and provides electricity and Serbs still don't pay, then it's a different story.

6. "instead of following their oath and displaying commitment to their profession, the Kosovar Serb Police decided to put politics over what is right.”

-- It would be nice for at least KPS to be the one civic organization that all people in Kosovo can work in. I'm certainly not saying Serbs are guilt free in politicizing this (and I'm even more sure they'll cash any check with their name on it regardless of letterhead), but again, if KPS is essentially former KLA's operating under a new acronym, the average Serb in the village is not going to join up. Those Serbs with a dubious past in Kosovo, are long gone anyway. This ties in in point #2 above.

7. "Enough blood has been spilled for nothing already, we can stay without any more people being killed, thank you very much. Things will fall into place with time – what the Kosovar gov't needs to focus on is the economy and rule of law – that in the end will be the incentive to have the K. Serb minority to integrate."

-- No disagreements there. As for the incentive of Serbs north of the Ibar to participate, that's another subject for a future time period.

8. "If you want to fall in the ranks of brainless nationalistic minions, then more power to you."

-- Dear God no. We have far too many of them here already, and I have little interest in arguing for Serbia’s claim to a region simply because “Kosovo je crce Srbije”. I try to be as objective as possible (obvious biases aside that we're all guilty of). There's much in what you wrote that I agree with, and am glad a non-nationalist took the time to write a response. Sadly however, a number of us spend far too much time responding to (and feeding off of) the "brainless nationalistic minions" as you refer to them. My comment you replied to was a case in point. If anything, I firmly believe each side in this debate has valid points that need to be presented. But equally, each side all too often spends far too much time with their heads stuck up their own hind quarters, which makes listening to anything critically objective a rather difficult endeavor. For Kosovo, I go as far as “Daytonize the damn thing” and letting each side run their own affairs. Pristina stays out of KM/Gracanica, and Belgrade stays out of Pristina/Prizren. I put my trust in knowing Tadić/Jeremić are pragmatic enough to know that. I can only hope Thaci/Sejdiu think the same.

Serbs thought is over!
More and more and more to come soon.
Ps. Nobody is withdrawing ;)

Its not really that hard to be LOCATED Kosovo, since it is near Albania, and they both are pretty significant, makes it easier to be located,don't you think so?.

'How many Serb murders have been solved so far ...?'

This matter of numbers was one of the issues raised in the first EULEX Programme Report, in the section on the Kosovo police force - they had never broken down crimes by the ethnicity of victim or perp, so there has been no way of answering such questions. (It was probably set up that way at the suggestion of some politically-correct American.) Since the police in Serb areas are themselves Serbs, it wouldn't say much for their competence if no Serb murder had ever been solved.

Let's not forget that not Muslims were killed by the Serbs. Croats played a good role in this as well.
Some Muslims also killed ther fellow Muslims as well.
Are we going to chalk up all the numbers of Muslims killed to the Serbs only? It seems that is exactly what our Albanians are telling us here.

KLA did their share of killing their fellow Albanians as well. Are we going to be told that only Serbs killed Albanians and all the dead are a result of Serbian killers?

How many died in combat?

So when you float numbers out there, keep all this in mind. It's easy to talk statistics and numbers. Let's get the truth out there.

At the end of the day Serbs were killed by non Serbs. Muslims were killed by Croats, other Muslims and Serbs. Same with K-Albanians.

Peggy,

“How many Serb murders have been solved so far and has anyone been found guilty of destroying Serbian cemetaries[sic]?
None is the answer. Now if that is not evidence of K-Albanians getting away with murder with help from KPS (KLA)then I don't know what is. ”
- I obviously have no figures (and am quite sure, neither do you. Making up numbers doesn't count), but that point is moot. I challenge you to come up with an instance where I claimed that the justice system in Kosova/o is the best in the world. Furthermore, I challenge you to come up with an instance where the judicial system of any country is flawless. As a matter of fact, let's look how Serbia is looking into war crimes committed by their criminals. How does getting a maximum of 20 years in jail for barbarically murdering 48 people, including women, children and elderly sound? (http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2009&mm=04&dd=23&nav_id=58692). This is an insult and a shame!
If you bothered to put aside your prejudice and actually read and comprehend what I wrote, you would see that I don't support or condone what was done to the people and the cultural and historical sites. As you may or may not be aware, money doesn't grown on trees in Kosova/o, coupled with the fact that infrastructure, logistics, human resources, etc. aren't the best that they could be. For heaven's sake, the police officers aren't properly equipped, poorly paid, etc., let alone possess the resources to go through thousands of cases piled up all at once from every venue within the country. Simple reality on the ground – never said it was fair or in good standing. Hopefully EULEX can help out and bring perpetrators to face justice. However, I can't say I have much hope for the justice system in Serbia to deliver any kind of justice to K. Albanians.

“Where have you been all this time? Where were you in 2004?
How many Serbs have been murdered since the war ended and you want more evidence. If you cannot see any of this then you won't see any more. ”
- Time didn't start in 2004, did it Peggy? I feel like I am repeating myself. Yes, it is bad what happened, I don't think anyone in their right might would get off on people dying for any reason. If you have any information or can provide any support for those thugs and criminals to be caught, why are you wasting bits and bandwidth here? Take action and stop spewing a whole lot of nothingness .
These incidents, while regrettable in every aspect, calling them a systematic campaign by the entire K. Albanian people and government against K. Serbs, are blatant lies, so feed that to the ignorant and spare me please.
On the other hand, I don't hear you expressing any kind of sympathies for the other side either – since when does only one side matter? Again, this is not to say that the revenge attacks were justified, but let's keep things in perspective and not be naïve. Believe it or not, K. Albanian lives are not worth less, and K. Albanians, despite what prejudices you may have, really are human, and deserve the same amount of sympathy and respect as the K. Serbs do.

“All your lengthy comments which resemble War and Peace don't have a shread[sic] of truth in them.”
- Well, I suppose we should suspend our version and substitute your version of the truth, right Peggy? The level of hypocrisy is astounding.


This is the last time I will waste any more storage and bandwidth to reply to your playground caliber responses.

Good day to all.