I've read about Mihailovic (the 1942 TIME magazine article is available online), as well as Ruth Mitchell's "The Serbs Chose War" and it is correct: the Serbs were the friends of the Jews in WWII, did not form a quisling government, and they even saved US airmen (Operation Halyard).
Billions of NGO dollars have gone into rewriting the history of both people, dividing both, whitewashing the history of Bosnian naziism (eg. few are aware that Bosnian muslim nazis and their German masters were in the ME in 1948 working to kill Israel in the cradle).
If 'pro Israel' Jews had any influence, we'd make sure that all know about Serbian-Jewish unity.
Roberto is obviously upset about this piece of news.
Since he has access to diplomats or whatever, surely he can direct his "War and Peace" type posts to them.
I am sure I am not alone in being so sick of his "peace" talks while always condemning the Serbs alone.
Roberto, there is no peace without justice and we haven't seen justice be served yet.
Once Thaci & his band are behind bars, once the likes of Oric and Gotovina are behind bars we may be nudging closer to justice.
So if you really are interested in peace, start with campaigning for these criminals to be caught and brought to justice as well. You may just start to sound more credible then.
I agree that if someone's using the term "Zionist" he/she is pretty much hostile to anything Jewish.
You can't reason with that lot.
As far as my personal take on Israel goes, like many Albanians I know, I simply admire that country for what it has been able to achieve in terms of economics and development given the harsh circumstances.
As far as the underwhelming progress of the peace process is concerned, I really do believe that's largely because of the mainstream's continuous failure to rein in the settlers and their hardliner supporters.
Honestly, judging from what comes out of these guys' mouths, they're almost as bad as the goons of Hamas and Hizbullah when it comes to religious fanaticism.
I agree that if someone's using the term "Zionist" he/she is pretty much hostile to anything Jewish.
You can't reason with that lot.
As far as my personal take on Israel goes, like many Albanians I know, I simply admire that country for what it has been able to achieve in terms of economics and development given the harsh circumstances.
As far as the underwhelming progress of the peace process is concerned, I really do believe that's largely because of the mainstream's continuous failure to rein in the settlers and their hardliner supporters.
Honestly, judging from what comes out of these guys' mouths, they're almost as bad as the goons of Hamas and Hizbullah when it comes to religious fanaticism.
If I remember correctelly, one of the very strong organizations, representing interests of jews, after WWII, strongly suggested Albania as home for them with a lot of justifications there. I believe, on that time, they could have suggested Serbia instead...
These similarities will always be facts used by Izraeli, in supporting Kosovo Independence. Time will showe...
I don't know what Israelis think of Albanians/Kosovars, but by what I've read lately, some of the things happening there are becoming disturbing.
For one, I've read that the right wing/religious parties are increasing their influence in politics and most importantly, in the army.
Also, the recent immigrants from Russa tend to be a lot more hardline than the rest of the Isrealis...(ah the Russians) and they're also having an increasingly powerful influence in politics.
It seems to me that in some ways, in politics at least, Israel has started developing disturbing similarities with its worst enemy...Iran.
Since you've been there...am I just seeing things?
(Ment, 28 October 2009 23:04)
well, thanx, Ment, for the question, and for addressing me with respect.
to be honest, i haven't been to israel in some years, but i have been with my share of israelis, incl. an american-born israeli diplomat. that was at a recent forum highlighting german-israeli relations, and lemme tell you: altho everything went well on the surface, just underneath there was enough tension to light up the room. and had my (left-wing) frnds opened their mouths, i assure you, an explosion would have ensued. as it was, we all kept many different thoughts to ourselves (yes, even I.) so the forum went off well, but nothing controversial was broached. diplomacy?
when i privately spoke to the israeli diplomat about the balkans, he informed me (and i've heard this often enough): the typical understanding in israel is that serbia was "our" frnd (ww2) while the other side was our "enemy." it is such an offensive and frankly fallacious analysis, very consciously promoted by the usual suspects. as we read in these pages, ad nauseum.
when i confronted him on this mis-understanding, he replied: I didn't say that i believed it, i said that was the widespread impression.
a few months later, i submitted my article to several major "liberal" israeli engl. lang press outlets. nothing.
instead, most everything i was reading was about their mistrust of our brave new prez, and the growing chasm of attitudes btwn mainstream israeli and mainstream am jewish POV's.
what of the peace movement? when i was there, back in 93, it was pretty vibrant, and its leader, ironically, was rabin, a former hawk. like some other ex-military types, he had gradually become more enlightened, realizing that compromise was the only hope for HIS (our)people, not to mention the palestinians. and for his "controversial" views, he was constantly broadsided, put down, belittled and attacked. less than 2 years later, actually attacked, which is to say, assassinated, by a fanatic fellow jew.
and with rabin, many of our lingering hopes for peace. does this all sound somehow vaguely familiar??
i don't care to argue out the story of the middle east, certainly not here, nor anywhere. i typically don't trust most non-jews, esp.ly the ones always foaming on about "the Zionists." some are vicious anti-semites, fomenting their prejudices into mid east politics. and some are legitimate critics. not always easy to tell the 2 apart.
as for my fellow jews and israelis, political opinions run all over the place -- that is what we jews are so (in)famous for. some feel a slavish need to attack all things "zionist", some feel a slavish need to defend them. personally, i used to be a member of "peace now" which i guess you might characterize as a moderately? progressive, pro-peace movement. certainly that last little "skirmish" against civilians in gaza left me sickened! not that i can tolerate the hammas types. i mean it gets pretty mean there; but since people here read and participate in this site, i think it would all feel oddly comfortable.
sorry i can't be of more help. i say: pray and work for peace, for freedom, for the very real needs of human beings, and ag. nationalism, and totalitarianism and racism, in all of its many, ugly forms.
I don't know what Israelis think of Albanians/Kosovars, but by what I've read lately, some of the things happening there are becoming disturbing.
For one, I've read that the right wing/religious parties are increasing their influence in politics and most importantly, in the army.
Also, the recent immigrants from Russa tend to be a lot more hardline than the rest of the Isrealis...(ah the Russians) and they're also having an increasingly powerful influence in politics.
It seems to me that in some ways, in politics at least, Israel has started developing disturbing similarities with its worst enemy...Iran.
Since you've been there...am I just seeing things?
It took Greece 8-12 years to be recognized after the world won your independence against the Turks. Don't forget. Ideally you want it done day one, but you have to keep things in perspective too
(ARta, 28 October 2009 11:20)
i agree with you, arta, and thanks for posting, as usual.
it so happens that the elites (majority) in power in israel hold a certain very distorted, and short-sighted view as to events in the Balkans. i have argued our pro-independence position with Israeli political types, with some limited success. from here (in california) it is really impossible to help form or reform israeli public opinion. about Kosovo/a, about so many other pressing issues.
unfortunately there does appear to be a growing gulf, btwn, let's say, mainstream israeli opinion, and mainstream american jewish opinion. certainly in regards to the recognition and support of Kosovo/a that is the case.
but one of the Kosovar newspapers did publish my "happy Birthday" article this past february, in which i pointed out the strong and determined support from we jews around the world.
israel is indeed in breach of international law and it is a good example that you can disregard it if you have the us support. but unlike kosovo it also has significant ressources on its own, it is a valuable asset for the us and its enemies are weak. israel has done far worse things to palestinians than serbia to kosovo, but with the support of the us it can get away with murder.
it also goes to show how far you can go when you serve the geo-political interests of the most powerful country in the world as opposed to when you stand in their way. it also exposes hypocrisy of those who claim to fight for human rights and democracy.
To me israel comes right after serbia and russia. When i was there people would come up and say you're from serbia, that's great! You dont get that in many places and you tend to remember :) anyway we have first rate cooperation with them and they are great people, nevermind politics. I'd feel the same even if they fell under pressure from americans about kosovo but the way it is, this makes me really happy. This is right and good.
A central theme of Serbian and Israeli convergence remains what Avi Shlaim called the doctrine of “Iron Wall”, namely negotiating with your neighbours from a position of military strength.
Difference is that while Serbia’s hands are tied up while Zionist are free to exercise their military strength at will.
And this is the famous international law that many in here aspire to.
sorry b92 but the title seams to be a citation: "Israel firm in refusing to recognize Kosovo"
That means later you changed the Serb officials statment to "Israeli officials have confirmed that Israel will remain firm in its stand," he told Tanjug.
The brave Israelis were not brave enough to be named it seams. Just wondering why all the "official" mixed signals?
It is important that Israel refuses to recognize Kosovo as an independent state, given its huge influence over US foreign policy. Israel's stance will make many American politicians think twice over their support of Kosovo's UDI.
countries like israel, iran, n. korea zimbabwae i'd like to see no connection with. so not really bothered about a state accussed of worlwide of committing crimes against civilians
Nothing against not being recognized by those who are in breach of international law on daily basis. Although statements made by Serbian officials should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Brilliant, incredible, I'm speechless..Israel in breach of international law...A is there anyone else you can think of that might be in breach of international law?
How outrageous!! Where is our friend from frisco? He should immediately go and lobby these fools while stamping his feet to ensure his home nation recognises these poor peace loving freedom fighters. They only threw bombs, murdered police, burnt religious sites and ethnically cleansed most of the non-indigenous population because they all disturbed this ethnically pure land. These intruders occupied the Christian churches built by Albanians before Christ himself and dared to improve the quality of life of this indigenous tribe.
Isreal should be shamed. Our friend from frisco should immediate leave this site and dedicate his resources to making things right. We are all with you Mr roberto! Good Luck!!
All credit to Israel for refusing to recognise kosovo considering the fact of its reliance on the US for financial and military support.
--
And that's why they will eventually recognize. For now it's "reality on the ground": Law and order in north (power is at 20% capacity after non-payment so they will have to settle,) elections, and Serbia being forced to set up customs.
It took Greece 8-12 years to be recognized after the world won your independence against the Turks. Don't forget. Ideally you want it done day one, but you have to keep things in perspective too
Nothing against not being recognized by those who are in breach of international law on daily basis. Although statements made by Serbian officials should be taken with a pinch of salt.
To me israel comes right after serbia and russia. When i was there people would come up and say you're from serbia, that's great! You dont get that in many places and you tend to remember :) anyway we have first rate cooperation with them and they are great people, nevermind politics. I'd feel the same even if they fell under pressure from americans about kosovo but the way it is, this makes me really happy. This is right and good.
It is important that Israel refuses to recognize Kosovo as an independent state, given its huge influence over US foreign policy. Israel's stance will make many American politicians think twice over their support of Kosovo's UDI.
How outrageous!! Where is our friend from frisco? He should immediately go and lobby these fools while stamping his feet to ensure his home nation recognises these poor peace loving freedom fighters. They only threw bombs, murdered police, burnt religious sites and ethnically cleansed most of the non-indigenous population because they all disturbed this ethnically pure land. These intruders occupied the Christian churches built by Albanians before Christ himself and dared to improve the quality of life of this indigenous tribe.
Isreal should be shamed. Our friend from frisco should immediate leave this site and dedicate his resources to making things right. We are all with you Mr roberto! Good Luck!!
israel is indeed in breach of international law and it is a good example that you can disregard it if you have the us support. but unlike kosovo it also has significant ressources on its own, it is a valuable asset for the us and its enemies are weak. israel has done far worse things to palestinians than serbia to kosovo, but with the support of the us it can get away with murder.
it also goes to show how far you can go when you serve the geo-political interests of the most powerful country in the world as opposed to when you stand in their way. it also exposes hypocrisy of those who claim to fight for human rights and democracy.
Nothing against not being recognized by those who are in breach of international law on daily basis. Although statements made by Serbian officials should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Brilliant, incredible, I'm speechless..Israel in breach of international law...A is there anyone else you can think of that might be in breach of international law?
All credit to Israel for refusing to recognise kosovo considering the fact of its reliance on the US for financial and military support.
--
And that's why they will eventually recognize. For now it's "reality on the ground": Law and order in north (power is at 20% capacity after non-payment so they will have to settle,) elections, and Serbia being forced to set up customs.
It took Greece 8-12 years to be recognized after the world won your independence against the Turks. Don't forget. Ideally you want it done day one, but you have to keep things in perspective too
A central theme of Serbian and Israeli convergence remains what Avi Shlaim called the doctrine of “Iron Wall”, namely negotiating with your neighbours from a position of military strength.
Difference is that while Serbia’s hands are tied up while Zionist are free to exercise their military strength at will.
And this is the famous international law that many in here aspire to.
Nothing against not being recognized by those who are in breach of international law on daily basis. Although statements made by Serbian officials should be taken with a pinch of salt.
sorry b92 but the title seams to be a citation: "Israel firm in refusing to recognize Kosovo"
That means later you changed the Serb officials statment to "Israeli officials have confirmed that Israel will remain firm in its stand," he told Tanjug.
The brave Israelis were not brave enough to be named it seams. Just wondering why all the "official" mixed signals?
It took Greece 8-12 years to be recognized after the world won your independence against the Turks. Don't forget. Ideally you want it done day one, but you have to keep things in perspective too
(ARta, 28 October 2009 11:20)
i agree with you, arta, and thanks for posting, as usual.
it so happens that the elites (majority) in power in israel hold a certain very distorted, and short-sighted view as to events in the Balkans. i have argued our pro-independence position with Israeli political types, with some limited success. from here (in california) it is really impossible to help form or reform israeli public opinion. about Kosovo/a, about so many other pressing issues.
unfortunately there does appear to be a growing gulf, btwn, let's say, mainstream israeli opinion, and mainstream american jewish opinion. certainly in regards to the recognition and support of Kosovo/a that is the case.
but one of the Kosovar newspapers did publish my "happy Birthday" article this past february, in which i pointed out the strong and determined support from we jews around the world.
countries like israel, iran, n. korea zimbabwae i'd like to see no connection with. so not really bothered about a state accussed of worlwide of committing crimes against civilians
I don't know what Israelis think of Albanians/Kosovars, but by what I've read lately, some of the things happening there are becoming disturbing.
For one, I've read that the right wing/religious parties are increasing their influence in politics and most importantly, in the army.
Also, the recent immigrants from Russa tend to be a lot more hardline than the rest of the Isrealis...(ah the Russians) and they're also having an increasingly powerful influence in politics.
It seems to me that in some ways, in politics at least, Israel has started developing disturbing similarities with its worst enemy...Iran.
Since you've been there...am I just seeing things?
(Ment, 28 October 2009 23:04)
well, thanx, Ment, for the question, and for addressing me with respect.
to be honest, i haven't been to israel in some years, but i have been with my share of israelis, incl. an american-born israeli diplomat. that was at a recent forum highlighting german-israeli relations, and lemme tell you: altho everything went well on the surface, just underneath there was enough tension to light up the room. and had my (left-wing) frnds opened their mouths, i assure you, an explosion would have ensued. as it was, we all kept many different thoughts to ourselves (yes, even I.) so the forum went off well, but nothing controversial was broached. diplomacy?
when i privately spoke to the israeli diplomat about the balkans, he informed me (and i've heard this often enough): the typical understanding in israel is that serbia was "our" frnd (ww2) while the other side was our "enemy." it is such an offensive and frankly fallacious analysis, very consciously promoted by the usual suspects. as we read in these pages, ad nauseum.
when i confronted him on this mis-understanding, he replied: I didn't say that i believed it, i said that was the widespread impression.
a few months later, i submitted my article to several major "liberal" israeli engl. lang press outlets. nothing.
instead, most everything i was reading was about their mistrust of our brave new prez, and the growing chasm of attitudes btwn mainstream israeli and mainstream am jewish POV's.
what of the peace movement? when i was there, back in 93, it was pretty vibrant, and its leader, ironically, was rabin, a former hawk. like some other ex-military types, he had gradually become more enlightened, realizing that compromise was the only hope for HIS (our)people, not to mention the palestinians. and for his "controversial" views, he was constantly broadsided, put down, belittled and attacked. less than 2 years later, actually attacked, which is to say, assassinated, by a fanatic fellow jew.
and with rabin, many of our lingering hopes for peace. does this all sound somehow vaguely familiar??
i don't care to argue out the story of the middle east, certainly not here, nor anywhere. i typically don't trust most non-jews, esp.ly the ones always foaming on about "the Zionists." some are vicious anti-semites, fomenting their prejudices into mid east politics. and some are legitimate critics. not always easy to tell the 2 apart.
as for my fellow jews and israelis, political opinions run all over the place -- that is what we jews are so (in)famous for. some feel a slavish need to attack all things "zionist", some feel a slavish need to defend them. personally, i used to be a member of "peace now" which i guess you might characterize as a moderately? progressive, pro-peace movement. certainly that last little "skirmish" against civilians in gaza left me sickened! not that i can tolerate the hammas types. i mean it gets pretty mean there; but since people here read and participate in this site, i think it would all feel oddly comfortable.
sorry i can't be of more help. i say: pray and work for peace, for freedom, for the very real needs of human beings, and ag. nationalism, and totalitarianism and racism, in all of its many, ugly forms.
Roberto is obviously upset about this piece of news.
Since he has access to diplomats or whatever, surely he can direct his "War and Peace" type posts to them.
I am sure I am not alone in being so sick of his "peace" talks while always condemning the Serbs alone.
Roberto, there is no peace without justice and we haven't seen justice be served yet.
Once Thaci & his band are behind bars, once the likes of Oric and Gotovina are behind bars we may be nudging closer to justice.
So if you really are interested in peace, start with campaigning for these criminals to be caught and brought to justice as well. You may just start to sound more credible then.
I've read about Mihailovic (the 1942 TIME magazine article is available online), as well as Ruth Mitchell's "The Serbs Chose War" and it is correct: the Serbs were the friends of the Jews in WWII, did not form a quisling government, and they even saved US airmen (Operation Halyard).
Billions of NGO dollars have gone into rewriting the history of both people, dividing both, whitewashing the history of Bosnian naziism (eg. few are aware that Bosnian muslim nazis and their German masters were in the ME in 1948 working to kill Israel in the cradle).
If 'pro Israel' Jews had any influence, we'd make sure that all know about Serbian-Jewish unity.
If I remember correctelly, one of the very strong organizations, representing interests of jews, after WWII, strongly suggested Albania as home for them with a lot of justifications there. I believe, on that time, they could have suggested Serbia instead...
These similarities will always be facts used by Izraeli, in supporting Kosovo Independence. Time will showe...
I don't know what Israelis think of Albanians/Kosovars, but by what I've read lately, some of the things happening there are becoming disturbing.
For one, I've read that the right wing/religious parties are increasing their influence in politics and most importantly, in the army.
Also, the recent immigrants from Russa tend to be a lot more hardline than the rest of the Isrealis...(ah the Russians) and they're also having an increasingly powerful influence in politics.
It seems to me that in some ways, in politics at least, Israel has started developing disturbing similarities with its worst enemy...Iran.
Since you've been there...am I just seeing things?
I agree that if someone's using the term "Zionist" he/she is pretty much hostile to anything Jewish.
You can't reason with that lot.
As far as my personal take on Israel goes, like many Albanians I know, I simply admire that country for what it has been able to achieve in terms of economics and development given the harsh circumstances.
As far as the underwhelming progress of the peace process is concerned, I really do believe that's largely because of the mainstream's continuous failure to rein in the settlers and their hardliner supporters.
Honestly, judging from what comes out of these guys' mouths, they're almost as bad as the goons of Hamas and Hizbullah when it comes to religious fanaticism.
I agree that if someone's using the term "Zionist" he/she is pretty much hostile to anything Jewish.
You can't reason with that lot.
As far as my personal take on Israel goes, like many Albanians I know, I simply admire that country for what it has been able to achieve in terms of economics and development given the harsh circumstances.
As far as the underwhelming progress of the peace process is concerned, I really do believe that's largely because of the mainstream's continuous failure to rein in the settlers and their hardliner supporters.
Honestly, judging from what comes out of these guys' mouths, they're almost as bad as the goons of Hamas and Hizbullah when it comes to religious fanaticism.
countries like israel, iran, n. korea zimbabwae i'd like to see no connection with. so not really bothered about a state accussed of worlwide of committing crimes against civilians
Nothing against not being recognized by those who are in breach of international law on daily basis. Although statements made by Serbian officials should be taken with a pinch of salt.
All credit to Israel for refusing to recognise kosovo considering the fact of its reliance on the US for financial and military support.
--
And that's why they will eventually recognize. For now it's "reality on the ground": Law and order in north (power is at 20% capacity after non-payment so they will have to settle,) elections, and Serbia being forced to set up customs.
It took Greece 8-12 years to be recognized after the world won your independence against the Turks. Don't forget. Ideally you want it done day one, but you have to keep things in perspective too
sorry b92 but the title seams to be a citation: "Israel firm in refusing to recognize Kosovo"
That means later you changed the Serb officials statment to "Israeli officials have confirmed that Israel will remain firm in its stand," he told Tanjug.
The brave Israelis were not brave enough to be named it seams. Just wondering why all the "official" mixed signals?
A central theme of Serbian and Israeli convergence remains what Avi Shlaim called the doctrine of “Iron Wall”, namely negotiating with your neighbours from a position of military strength.
Difference is that while Serbia’s hands are tied up while Zionist are free to exercise their military strength at will.
And this is the famous international law that many in here aspire to.
It took Greece 8-12 years to be recognized after the world won your independence against the Turks. Don't forget. Ideally you want it done day one, but you have to keep things in perspective too
(ARta, 28 October 2009 11:20)
i agree with you, arta, and thanks for posting, as usual.
it so happens that the elites (majority) in power in israel hold a certain very distorted, and short-sighted view as to events in the Balkans. i have argued our pro-independence position with Israeli political types, with some limited success. from here (in california) it is really impossible to help form or reform israeli public opinion. about Kosovo/a, about so many other pressing issues.
unfortunately there does appear to be a growing gulf, btwn, let's say, mainstream israeli opinion, and mainstream american jewish opinion. certainly in regards to the recognition and support of Kosovo/a that is the case.
but one of the Kosovar newspapers did publish my "happy Birthday" article this past february, in which i pointed out the strong and determined support from we jews around the world.
How outrageous!! Where is our friend from frisco? He should immediately go and lobby these fools while stamping his feet to ensure his home nation recognises these poor peace loving freedom fighters. They only threw bombs, murdered police, burnt religious sites and ethnically cleansed most of the non-indigenous population because they all disturbed this ethnically pure land. These intruders occupied the Christian churches built by Albanians before Christ himself and dared to improve the quality of life of this indigenous tribe.
Isreal should be shamed. Our friend from frisco should immediate leave this site and dedicate his resources to making things right. We are all with you Mr roberto! Good Luck!!
I don't know what Israelis think of Albanians/Kosovars, but by what I've read lately, some of the things happening there are becoming disturbing.
For one, I've read that the right wing/religious parties are increasing their influence in politics and most importantly, in the army.
Also, the recent immigrants from Russa tend to be a lot more hardline than the rest of the Isrealis...(ah the Russians) and they're also having an increasingly powerful influence in politics.
It seems to me that in some ways, in politics at least, Israel has started developing disturbing similarities with its worst enemy...Iran.
Since you've been there...am I just seeing things?
(Ment, 28 October 2009 23:04)
well, thanx, Ment, for the question, and for addressing me with respect.
to be honest, i haven't been to israel in some years, but i have been with my share of israelis, incl. an american-born israeli diplomat. that was at a recent forum highlighting german-israeli relations, and lemme tell you: altho everything went well on the surface, just underneath there was enough tension to light up the room. and had my (left-wing) frnds opened their mouths, i assure you, an explosion would have ensued. as it was, we all kept many different thoughts to ourselves (yes, even I.) so the forum went off well, but nothing controversial was broached. diplomacy?
when i privately spoke to the israeli diplomat about the balkans, he informed me (and i've heard this often enough): the typical understanding in israel is that serbia was "our" frnd (ww2) while the other side was our "enemy." it is such an offensive and frankly fallacious analysis, very consciously promoted by the usual suspects. as we read in these pages, ad nauseum.
when i confronted him on this mis-understanding, he replied: I didn't say that i believed it, i said that was the widespread impression.
a few months later, i submitted my article to several major "liberal" israeli engl. lang press outlets. nothing.
instead, most everything i was reading was about their mistrust of our brave new prez, and the growing chasm of attitudes btwn mainstream israeli and mainstream am jewish POV's.
what of the peace movement? when i was there, back in 93, it was pretty vibrant, and its leader, ironically, was rabin, a former hawk. like some other ex-military types, he had gradually become more enlightened, realizing that compromise was the only hope for HIS (our)people, not to mention the palestinians. and for his "controversial" views, he was constantly broadsided, put down, belittled and attacked. less than 2 years later, actually attacked, which is to say, assassinated, by a fanatic fellow jew.
and with rabin, many of our lingering hopes for peace. does this all sound somehow vaguely familiar??
i don't care to argue out the story of the middle east, certainly not here, nor anywhere. i typically don't trust most non-jews, esp.ly the ones always foaming on about "the Zionists." some are vicious anti-semites, fomenting their prejudices into mid east politics. and some are legitimate critics. not always easy to tell the 2 apart.
as for my fellow jews and israelis, political opinions run all over the place -- that is what we jews are so (in)famous for. some feel a slavish need to attack all things "zionist", some feel a slavish need to defend them. personally, i used to be a member of "peace now" which i guess you might characterize as a moderately? progressive, pro-peace movement. certainly that last little "skirmish" against civilians in gaza left me sickened! not that i can tolerate the hammas types. i mean it gets pretty mean there; but since people here read and participate in this site, i think it would all feel oddly comfortable.
sorry i can't be of more help. i say: pray and work for peace, for freedom, for the very real needs of human beings, and ag. nationalism, and totalitarianism and racism, in all of its many, ugly forms.
Nothing against not being recognized by those who are in breach of international law on daily basis. Although statements made by Serbian officials should be taken with a pinch of salt.
Brilliant, incredible, I'm speechless..Israel in breach of international law...A is there anyone else you can think of that might be in breach of international law?
It is important that Israel refuses to recognize Kosovo as an independent state, given its huge influence over US foreign policy. Israel's stance will make many American politicians think twice over their support of Kosovo's UDI.
To me israel comes right after serbia and russia. When i was there people would come up and say you're from serbia, that's great! You dont get that in many places and you tend to remember :) anyway we have first rate cooperation with them and they are great people, nevermind politics. I'd feel the same even if they fell under pressure from americans about kosovo but the way it is, this makes me really happy. This is right and good.
I don't know what Israelis think of Albanians/Kosovars, but by what I've read lately, some of the things happening there are becoming disturbing.
For one, I've read that the right wing/religious parties are increasing their influence in politics and most importantly, in the army.
Also, the recent immigrants from Russa tend to be a lot more hardline than the rest of the Isrealis...(ah the Russians) and they're also having an increasingly powerful influence in politics.
It seems to me that in some ways, in politics at least, Israel has started developing disturbing similarities with its worst enemy...Iran.
Since you've been there...am I just seeing things?
If I remember correctelly, one of the very strong organizations, representing interests of jews, after WWII, strongly suggested Albania as home for them with a lot of justifications there. I believe, on that time, they could have suggested Serbia instead...
These similarities will always be facts used by Izraeli, in supporting Kosovo Independence. Time will showe...
I agree that if someone's using the term "Zionist" he/she is pretty much hostile to anything Jewish.
You can't reason with that lot.
As far as my personal take on Israel goes, like many Albanians I know, I simply admire that country for what it has been able to achieve in terms of economics and development given the harsh circumstances.
As far as the underwhelming progress of the peace process is concerned, I really do believe that's largely because of the mainstream's continuous failure to rein in the settlers and their hardliner supporters.
Honestly, judging from what comes out of these guys' mouths, they're almost as bad as the goons of Hamas and Hizbullah when it comes to religious fanaticism.
I agree that if someone's using the term "Zionist" he/she is pretty much hostile to anything Jewish.
You can't reason with that lot.
As far as my personal take on Israel goes, like many Albanians I know, I simply admire that country for what it has been able to achieve in terms of economics and development given the harsh circumstances.
As far as the underwhelming progress of the peace process is concerned, I really do believe that's largely because of the mainstream's continuous failure to rein in the settlers and their hardliner supporters.
Honestly, judging from what comes out of these guys' mouths, they're almost as bad as the goons of Hamas and Hizbullah when it comes to religious fanaticism.
israel is indeed in breach of international law and it is a good example that you can disregard it if you have the us support. but unlike kosovo it also has significant ressources on its own, it is a valuable asset for the us and its enemies are weak. israel has done far worse things to palestinians than serbia to kosovo, but with the support of the us it can get away with murder.
it also goes to show how far you can go when you serve the geo-political interests of the most powerful country in the world as opposed to when you stand in their way. it also exposes hypocrisy of those who claim to fight for human rights and democracy.
Roberto is obviously upset about this piece of news.
Since he has access to diplomats or whatever, surely he can direct his "War and Peace" type posts to them.
I am sure I am not alone in being so sick of his "peace" talks while always condemning the Serbs alone.
Roberto, there is no peace without justice and we haven't seen justice be served yet.
Once Thaci & his band are behind bars, once the likes of Oric and Gotovina are behind bars we may be nudging closer to justice.
So if you really are interested in peace, start with campaigning for these criminals to be caught and brought to justice as well. You may just start to sound more credible then.
I've read about Mihailovic (the 1942 TIME magazine article is available online), as well as Ruth Mitchell's "The Serbs Chose War" and it is correct: the Serbs were the friends of the Jews in WWII, did not form a quisling government, and they even saved US airmen (Operation Halyard).
Billions of NGO dollars have gone into rewriting the history of both people, dividing both, whitewashing the history of Bosnian naziism (eg. few are aware that Bosnian muslim nazis and their German masters were in the ME in 1948 working to kill Israel in the cradle).
If 'pro Israel' Jews had any influence, we'd make sure that all know about Serbian-Jewish unity.
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