Ambassador on visas, "customs with Kosovo"

The ambassador was also quoted as saying that the European Union "will not ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to continue its EU integration".

So much for the theories of Arta and Kosovo-USA :)

Bringeus, whose country currently holds EU presidency, said that this is not a condition
--
Well, I'm glad it's not a condition because how do you improve the freedom of movement of citizens by introducing administrative border controls? Some people have their head screwed on the wrong way.

Personally, I am all for our citizens having visa free travel but I would prefer we stay out of this union. Apart from freedom of travel I really cannot see any advantages for Serbia joining that it doesn't already have, especially if the Lisbon treaty gets ratified.

In case anyone is confused, having our brightest leave Serbia to work in factories and clean toilets in the EU is not an advantage.

Ok, i see, lets put more barriers and obstacles on peoples' movement in order for them to move freely?

Mr, whats your name, go back to Sweden and put as much borders as you want, partition your country, make nice geometrical shapes,etc...

Swedish ambassador on "border with Kosovo".

No recognition of soverognty of Kosovo and its borders no Schengen.

Woww how simple and plain things are getting today.

Serbia has two choices.

1. Dream (with eyes open on fairytale stories about Kosovo)
2. Reality (get in Schengen zone)

I would choose the latter before you wake up and see that Presevo valley and Nis is also liberated by authochtones Dardanians. With Albanians stronger and NATO memmbers, the history may begin to rewind,...and that very fast.

Take the last opportunity befoer it is too late.

Its truly amazing how albanians interpret things to fit their agenda. May I ask if you are all blind? Couldn't you read that they stated that Serbia DID NOT have to recognize Kosovo. The Europeans are desperate! How can it be Serbias fault that Kosovo is the black hole of Europe? The West pushed for an independent Kosovo and now it backfired on them. They realize that Kosovo is nothing without Serbia. The West has spent 10 years in the province and still more albanians are leaving then during Milosevics rule. The only purpose with a border beween Serbia and Kosovo is to stop smuggling and human trafficking. They want Serbs to travel freely but not Albanians. How can you don't get that?

PRN wrote or rather dreamed:

"
I would choose the latter before you wake up and see that Presevo valley and Nis is also liberated by authochtones Dardanians. With Albanians stronger and NATO memmbers, the history may begin to rewind,...and that very fast. "

You forgot to include Mars, Moon and the rest of our galaxy mr NON-dreamer!

Anyways, any terrorist attacks on Balkan soil will have the fate of Shakasvili and the like....
You wouldn't like to be in his shoes right?

“It is necessary to establish customs control and that is something that the Serbian government knows. There is a problem with smuggling products and human trafficking and that problem must be solved in a practical way. It is not in the interest of Serbia to turn Kosovo into a black hole in Europe. I am convinced that this problem will be solved in the future,” Bringeus said.

Kosovo is already a black hole which you have created. Don't try to blame Serbia for your stuff ups.

BTW, by the time Serbia is ready to apply for membership you will be long gone. It is a rotating presidency after all.

neither will there be a border within serbia nor a black hole in serbia, not even in the short-time occupied parts.

with or without eu, this will stay that way.

Ace you missed the other sentence.


''Good neighborly relations are a condition for all countries that want to join the EU. We expect that Serbia and Kosovo will have police cooperation, cooperation in the courts and customs,''



In other words indirectly recognize the independence of Kosovo. North included because we all know where the borders between Kosovo and Serbia goes.


The condition to recognize Kosovo will come later in time when all EU member states have recognized Kosovo. This is all a procces/game. Kosovo independence is irreversible.

I say swedish efficiency. First: custom,
Second: recognize Kosovo/a,
and so on and on and on...

"The system for administering the “borders between Kosovo and Serbia” must be implemented “in order to enable freedom of movement,” Sweden’s ambassador says."

How is it possible then that EU countries don't have "system for administering borders between themselves in order to enable freedom of movement,”?
And they are independent countries too, and UN members, unlike Kosovo.
So, without cusoms there is no "freedom of movement"?
And we should probably add few more borders to make freedom of movement even easyer.

"Sorry to disappoint you but a if you setup a border and have to enter or leave with passport"
Kosovaman

Where does it say you need passports to enter Kosovo from Serbia proper? Don't you get it! The West wants to isolate to. When they have tamed you you'll be handed back to Serbia.

"So much for the theories of Arta and Kosovo-USA :)
(Ace)"

-- They had theories? I always thought they were hallucinations.

"I would choose the latter before you wake up and see that Presevo valley and Nis is also liberated by authochtones Dardanians. (PRN)"

-- And how's that ongoing effort to retake Jannina - oh, I'm sorry, Ioannina - going? Too sensitive of a subject? If we’re making up territory to take, should be also give Northern Epiros back to Greece then? Sorry, too sensitive a subject?

"Ace you missed the other sentence.

''Good neighborly relations are a condition for all countries that want to join the EU. (Smulan")

-- Serbia has good neighborly relations with all its recognized neighbors: Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, even Turkey. If you don't recognize a glorified protectorate as a state, and you're *not* expected to recognize it, how can you have "good neighborly relations" with something that doesn't exist?

Amazing how information is warped into self-serving interests south of the Ibar.... especially when said information is once again originating from sources other than them.

Well this is tantamount to recognising the independence of Kosova. Nothing short of it!
It's got to be done, sooner or later!

The condition to recognize Kosovo will come later in time when all EU member states have recognized Kosovo. This is all a procces/game. Kosovo independence is irreversible.
(Smulan, 27 October 2009 11:20)

Spain and others will not recognize Kosovo. Kosovo will never enter EU and UN.

Kosovo will stay a UN governed Serbian province.

Meaning no representation in Brussels. Wow! Maybe reintegration into Serbia isn't that bad.

"May I ask if you are all blind? Couldn't you read that they stated that Serbia DID NOT have to recognize Kosovo.
MikeC "

Sorry to disappoint you but a if you setup a border and have to enter or leave with passport that means you are going to another country, which means indirectly Serbia is recognizing Kosovo. Also, the request for customs, is another fact. Which country in the world has a border and checks customs inside it's own country. You can address your concerns to the Serbian government. I bet you anything, Serbia is going to send an ambassador to Kosovo soon and yet, they will say that we do not recognize Kosovo.

All this mullackey about Kosovo being independent and likewise will end once and for all, when K-Albanians will be forced to open limes with Serbia for free flow of people.
Then they will not stand a chance to stop Serbs and other non-Albanians to return to their homes and land.
And they'll be forced to do that in a year or two.
And that is K-Albanians biggest problem since they don't have sufficient answer to that situation, if they want to portrait themselves as a democratic society.
Good luck

"Good neighborly relations are a condition for all countries that want to join the EU"

But of course, Mr. Ambassador. Nobody is disputing this well known fact.But the condition is applicable only when the lawfully recognized neighborly states in question.
Here, we have a little bit of diplomatic confusion on your part (it's not so uncommon, we understand it, although you should know better than that):

ALBANIANS in Kosovo ARE NATIONAL MINORITY in the Republic of Serbia just like many other minorities living on Serbian territory, within the Serbian state. The issues of national minorities within any given state are never handled by setting up the borders and customs within the very state! That would be sort of a ghetto, you could not be possibly suggesting it, Mr. Ambassador!

And they are independent countries too, and UN members, unlike Kosovo.
-----
UN membership is not the decider: see Switzerland or China until recently. They weren't UN members.

The European Union "will not ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to continue its European integration"
That's enough said. If read correctly this means "you can continue your European integration but will not be integrated unless you recognize"
Your Good Neighbor

The ambassador was also quoted as saying that the European Union "will not ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to continue its EU integration".
-----
Of course not, once Serbia "cooperates" with Kosova what else is left? You will not get in EU before 2015-2016 in the best case scenario so you have time. Once you "cooperate" EU will ask you to recognize and set your borders. Little by little

How is it possible then that EU countries don't have "system for administering borders between themselves in order to enable freedom of movement,”?

Sreten, We in the EU DO want you Serbs within our free-movement area. Most of us DO NOT yet want the Kosovars. Nor do we want the Afghans, the Iraqis end many others. Nothing racist. Just the crime rate in those countries is too high, the risks of illegal immigration are unacceptable etc.

Serbia has good neighborly relations with all its recognized neighbors: Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, even Turkey. If you don't recognize a glorified protectorate as a state, and you're *not* expected to recognize it, how can you have "good neighborly relations" with something that doesn't exist?

Amazing how information is warped into self-serving interests south of the Ibar.... especially when said information is once again originating from sources other than them.
(Mike, 27 October 2009 15:03)


Turkey is not your immediate neighbor.

Meaning no representation in Brussels. Wow! Maybe reintegration into Serbia isn't that bad.
(Ron, 27 October 2009 15:02)
How could you figure this??
Kosovo would still have no representation as a province of Serbia, it would become a forgotten land with all foreign money remaining in banks and pockets in Belgrade to be distributed at a "later date".
I see Kosovo being admitted to the EU under some "special status" compromise so the 5 do not have to make a formal recognition. There may not be a system in place now, a way can be adopted.
Before you say any of them would reject such a deal remember EU has unanimous support for EULEX which "IS" using the laws enacted through the Constitution of Kosovo! This is fact not fiction.

(pss, 27 October 2009 18:55)

If the Lisbon Treaty comes into affect, there will no longer be any veto, it will all be based on majority voted. So even if 22/27 recognise Kosovo, it can't be stopped from joining the EU, because Kosovo will have a majority vote. Serbia and the other 5 can do nothing from preventing Kosovo's EU membership, regardless what the ICJ says. UN is a different story.

UN membership is not the decider: see Switzerland or China until recently. They weren't UN members.
(ARTa, 27 October 2009 14:47)

i'm glad to see you remember what i taught you about the un and switzerland (since you had claimed earlier that switzerland was not at all a member of the un). but you still have lots to learn about china, who officially joined the un in the 70's, which (relatively speaking) is not that recent...

"It is not in the interest of Serbia to turn Kosovo into a black hole in Europe."

How I laughed and I laughed. Why the future tense? Pity no one could ask what those poor albanians who drowned on the way to Hungary why they were leaving Kosovo...

As for "border controls = recognizing a country", that is rubbish. Several countries have 'opted out' of Schengen, a significant being one called the United Kingdom, though I suppose if you don't use a passport you are probably an illegal imigrant.

Serbia can just negotiate an 'opt out'. The UK opted out of the Social Chapter (of the acquis communautaire) of the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, then opted out of Schengen along with other countries.

Without Serbia in the EU, the EU's who stabilization strategy and policy for the Balkans will be a total failure.

As already noted about 'neighborly relations', there is also an onus on the kosovo albanians to follow the same, or do they think they have a carte blanche from Brussels to continue to discriminate widely against all non albanians? It's not just about passing a few laws and saying that they are in compliance of the acquis communautiare, but about implementation. The EU already made that mistake about Bg & Ro who should never have been let in before they cleaned up their act.

So what is the bet, that Thaci will personally lead the campaign to clean up crime and corruption in the albanian controlled part of Kosovo? It will be a blood bath.

Maybe Sweden should establish customs on the border of Laponia??

This is not about recognition. The EU can not recognise nor not recognise Kosovo. I am on about membership. Kosovo's membership can not be blocked with Lisbon.

Too many hoops to jump through in the EU circus. I say show em' the finger and leave the bigtop. The swiss aren't in the EU, I don't see them begging to join.

so kosovo is a black hole..! It is funny,because you should know how powerfull black holes are supposed to be in physics!
the most you try to make us a black hole,the most powerfull we become ;)!
(lili, 28 October 2009 09:49)

Lili - "black hole" is invisible. Like Kosovo on the map of Europe ;)

so kosovo is a black hole..! It is funny,because you should know how powerfull black holes are supposed to be in physics!
the most you try to make us a black hole,the most powerfull we become ;)!

It is still irrelevant.

Kosovo under the albanians cannot join the EU if they do not a) fulfill the acquis communautaire which they cannot do as long as b) Serbia does not recognize nor cooperate with albanian controlled parts of 'Kosovo' or even the so-called 'borders'. Simply put, without Serbia's agreement 'Kosovo' cannot join the EU as a country regardless of QMV. Thus Serbia has an effective veto.

So, we also have the reverse situation where Serbia cannot technically join as long as the kosovo albanians refuse to talk to Belgrade.

If Serbia decides it doesn't want to join, then there is nothing the EU can do either as it needs Serbia's cooperation to 'stabilize' Kosovo so that the EU won't have to continually subsidize it as it currently does with (ever on the verge of bankruptcy) Bosnian-Croat Federation in Bosnia. All the EU can then do is possibly offer some sort of half-agreement or association agreement, but not full membership.

Ian is just plain wrong on QMV in Lisbon on recognition.

Matters of foreign affairs after Lisbon still requires unanimity. I'm amazed that there are still people out there who peddle this 'QMV for recognitions myth' when it is so easy to check.

The only QMV related to foreign relations at an EU level is for Initiatives of the High Representative for Foreign Affairs which first requires a 'unanimous request' before there can be QMV. Duh!

Aleks,

You are wrong on multiple levels. For obvious reasons you give way too much credit to Serbia, in regards to the weight it carries in Balkan diplomacy.

Just FYI, Cyprus has an issue with North Cyprus and Turkey, but yet they were indeed accepted into EU.

EU, will not let Serbia be a reason to stop Kosovo's progression towards EU, and in case Kosovo gets in EU before Serbia it will most likely condition Kosovo to not block Serbia's entry into EU.

Swedish ambassador on "border with Kosovo".

No recognition of soverognty of Kosovo and its borders no Schengen.

Woww how simple and plain things are getting today.

Serbia has two choices.

1. Dream (with eyes open on fairytale stories about Kosovo)
2. Reality (get in Schengen zone)

I would choose the latter before you wake up and see that Presevo valley and Nis is also liberated by authochtones Dardanians. With Albanians stronger and NATO memmbers, the history may begin to rewind,...and that very fast.

Take the last opportunity befoer it is too late.

Ace you missed the other sentence.


''Good neighborly relations are a condition for all countries that want to join the EU. We expect that Serbia and Kosovo will have police cooperation, cooperation in the courts and customs,''



In other words indirectly recognize the independence of Kosovo. North included because we all know where the borders between Kosovo and Serbia goes.


The condition to recognize Kosovo will come later in time when all EU member states have recognized Kosovo. This is all a procces/game. Kosovo independence is irreversible.

Well this is tantamount to recognising the independence of Kosova. Nothing short of it!
It's got to be done, sooner or later!

The ambassador was also quoted as saying that the European Union "will not ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to continue its EU integration".

So much for the theories of Arta and Kosovo-USA :)

"May I ask if you are all blind? Couldn't you read that they stated that Serbia DID NOT have to recognize Kosovo.
MikeC "

Sorry to disappoint you but a if you setup a border and have to enter or leave with passport that means you are going to another country, which means indirectly Serbia is recognizing Kosovo. Also, the request for customs, is another fact. Which country in the world has a border and checks customs inside it's own country. You can address your concerns to the Serbian government. I bet you anything, Serbia is going to send an ambassador to Kosovo soon and yet, they will say that we do not recognize Kosovo.

Ok, i see, lets put more barriers and obstacles on peoples' movement in order for them to move freely?

Mr, whats your name, go back to Sweden and put as much borders as you want, partition your country, make nice geometrical shapes,etc...

Its truly amazing how albanians interpret things to fit their agenda. May I ask if you are all blind? Couldn't you read that they stated that Serbia DID NOT have to recognize Kosovo. The Europeans are desperate! How can it be Serbias fault that Kosovo is the black hole of Europe? The West pushed for an independent Kosovo and now it backfired on them. They realize that Kosovo is nothing without Serbia. The West has spent 10 years in the province and still more albanians are leaving then during Milosevics rule. The only purpose with a border beween Serbia and Kosovo is to stop smuggling and human trafficking. They want Serbs to travel freely but not Albanians. How can you don't get that?

I say swedish efficiency. First: custom,
Second: recognize Kosovo/a,
and so on and on and on...

The ambassador was also quoted as saying that the European Union "will not ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to continue its EU integration".
-----
Of course not, once Serbia "cooperates" with Kosova what else is left? You will not get in EU before 2015-2016 in the best case scenario so you have time. Once you "cooperate" EU will ask you to recognize and set your borders. Little by little

Serbia has good neighborly relations with all its recognized neighbors: Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, even Turkey. If you don't recognize a glorified protectorate as a state, and you're *not* expected to recognize it, how can you have "good neighborly relations" with something that doesn't exist?

Amazing how information is warped into self-serving interests south of the Ibar.... especially when said information is once again originating from sources other than them.
(Mike, 27 October 2009 15:03)


Turkey is not your immediate neighbor.

The condition to recognize Kosovo will come later in time when all EU member states have recognized Kosovo. This is all a procces/game. Kosovo independence is irreversible.
(Smulan, 27 October 2009 11:20)

Spain and others will not recognize Kosovo. Kosovo will never enter EU and UN.

Kosovo will stay a UN governed Serbian province.

Meaning no representation in Brussels. Wow! Maybe reintegration into Serbia isn't that bad.

And they are independent countries too, and UN members, unlike Kosovo.
-----
UN membership is not the decider: see Switzerland or China until recently. They weren't UN members.

How is it possible then that EU countries don't have "system for administering borders between themselves in order to enable freedom of movement,”?

Sreten, We in the EU DO want you Serbs within our free-movement area. Most of us DO NOT yet want the Kosovars. Nor do we want the Afghans, the Iraqis end many others. Nothing racist. Just the crime rate in those countries is too high, the risks of illegal immigration are unacceptable etc.

PRN wrote or rather dreamed:

"
I would choose the latter before you wake up and see that Presevo valley and Nis is also liberated by authochtones Dardanians. With Albanians stronger and NATO memmbers, the history may begin to rewind,...and that very fast. "

You forgot to include Mars, Moon and the rest of our galaxy mr NON-dreamer!

Anyways, any terrorist attacks on Balkan soil will have the fate of Shakasvili and the like....
You wouldn't like to be in his shoes right?

The European Union "will not ask Serbia to recognize Kosovo in order to continue its European integration"
That's enough said. If read correctly this means "you can continue your European integration but will not be integrated unless you recognize"
Your Good Neighbor

neither will there be a border within serbia nor a black hole in serbia, not even in the short-time occupied parts.

with or without eu, this will stay that way.

"Sorry to disappoint you but a if you setup a border and have to enter or leave with passport"
Kosovaman

Where does it say you need passports to enter Kosovo from Serbia proper? Don't you get it! The West wants to isolate to. When they have tamed you you'll be handed back to Serbia.

All this mullackey about Kosovo being independent and likewise will end once and for all, when K-Albanians will be forced to open limes with Serbia for free flow of people.
Then they will not stand a chance to stop Serbs and other non-Albanians to return to their homes and land.
And they'll be forced to do that in a year or two.
And that is K-Albanians biggest problem since they don't have sufficient answer to that situation, if they want to portrait themselves as a democratic society.
Good luck

"Good neighborly relations are a condition for all countries that want to join the EU"

But of course, Mr. Ambassador. Nobody is disputing this well known fact.But the condition is applicable only when the lawfully recognized neighborly states in question.
Here, we have a little bit of diplomatic confusion on your part (it's not so uncommon, we understand it, although you should know better than that):

ALBANIANS in Kosovo ARE NATIONAL MINORITY in the Republic of Serbia just like many other minorities living on Serbian territory, within the Serbian state. The issues of national minorities within any given state are never handled by setting up the borders and customs within the very state! That would be sort of a ghetto, you could not be possibly suggesting it, Mr. Ambassador!

“It is necessary to establish customs control and that is something that the Serbian government knows. There is a problem with smuggling products and human trafficking and that problem must be solved in a practical way. It is not in the interest of Serbia to turn Kosovo into a black hole in Europe. I am convinced that this problem will be solved in the future,” Bringeus said.

Kosovo is already a black hole which you have created. Don't try to blame Serbia for your stuff ups.

BTW, by the time Serbia is ready to apply for membership you will be long gone. It is a rotating presidency after all.

Meaning no representation in Brussels. Wow! Maybe reintegration into Serbia isn't that bad.
(Ron, 27 October 2009 15:02)
How could you figure this??
Kosovo would still have no representation as a province of Serbia, it would become a forgotten land with all foreign money remaining in banks and pockets in Belgrade to be distributed at a "later date".
I see Kosovo being admitted to the EU under some "special status" compromise so the 5 do not have to make a formal recognition. There may not be a system in place now, a way can be adopted.
Before you say any of them would reject such a deal remember EU has unanimous support for EULEX which "IS" using the laws enacted through the Constitution of Kosovo! This is fact not fiction.

"So much for the theories of Arta and Kosovo-USA :)
(Ace)"

-- They had theories? I always thought they were hallucinations.

"I would choose the latter before you wake up and see that Presevo valley and Nis is also liberated by authochtones Dardanians. (PRN)"

-- And how's that ongoing effort to retake Jannina - oh, I'm sorry, Ioannina - going? Too sensitive of a subject? If we’re making up territory to take, should be also give Northern Epiros back to Greece then? Sorry, too sensitive a subject?

"Ace you missed the other sentence.

''Good neighborly relations are a condition for all countries that want to join the EU. (Smulan")

-- Serbia has good neighborly relations with all its recognized neighbors: Montenegro, Croatia, Bosnia, Macedonia, Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary, even Turkey. If you don't recognize a glorified protectorate as a state, and you're *not* expected to recognize it, how can you have "good neighborly relations" with something that doesn't exist?

Amazing how information is warped into self-serving interests south of the Ibar.... especially when said information is once again originating from sources other than them.

Bringeus, whose country currently holds EU presidency, said that this is not a condition
--
Well, I'm glad it's not a condition because how do you improve the freedom of movement of citizens by introducing administrative border controls? Some people have their head screwed on the wrong way.

Personally, I am all for our citizens having visa free travel but I would prefer we stay out of this union. Apart from freedom of travel I really cannot see any advantages for Serbia joining that it doesn't already have, especially if the Lisbon treaty gets ratified.

In case anyone is confused, having our brightest leave Serbia to work in factories and clean toilets in the EU is not an advantage.

"The system for administering the “borders between Kosovo and Serbia” must be implemented “in order to enable freedom of movement,” Sweden’s ambassador says."

How is it possible then that EU countries don't have "system for administering borders between themselves in order to enable freedom of movement,”?
And they are independent countries too, and UN members, unlike Kosovo.
So, without cusoms there is no "freedom of movement"?
And we should probably add few more borders to make freedom of movement even easyer.

UN membership is not the decider: see Switzerland or China until recently. They weren't UN members.
(ARTa, 27 October 2009 14:47)

i'm glad to see you remember what i taught you about the un and switzerland (since you had claimed earlier that switzerland was not at all a member of the un). but you still have lots to learn about china, who officially joined the un in the 70's, which (relatively speaking) is not that recent...

(pss, 27 October 2009 18:55)

If the Lisbon Treaty comes into affect, there will no longer be any veto, it will all be based on majority voted. So even if 22/27 recognise Kosovo, it can't be stopped from joining the EU, because Kosovo will have a majority vote. Serbia and the other 5 can do nothing from preventing Kosovo's EU membership, regardless what the ICJ says. UN is a different story.

so kosovo is a black hole..! It is funny,because you should know how powerfull black holes are supposed to be in physics!
the most you try to make us a black hole,the most powerfull we become ;)!

Maybe Sweden should establish customs on the border of Laponia??

so kosovo is a black hole..! It is funny,because you should know how powerfull black holes are supposed to be in physics!
the most you try to make us a black hole,the most powerfull we become ;)!
(lili, 28 October 2009 09:49)

Lili - "black hole" is invisible. Like Kosovo on the map of Europe ;)

"It is not in the interest of Serbia to turn Kosovo into a black hole in Europe."

How I laughed and I laughed. Why the future tense? Pity no one could ask what those poor albanians who drowned on the way to Hungary why they were leaving Kosovo...

As for "border controls = recognizing a country", that is rubbish. Several countries have 'opted out' of Schengen, a significant being one called the United Kingdom, though I suppose if you don't use a passport you are probably an illegal imigrant.

Serbia can just negotiate an 'opt out'. The UK opted out of the Social Chapter (of the acquis communautaire) of the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, then opted out of Schengen along with other countries.

Without Serbia in the EU, the EU's who stabilization strategy and policy for the Balkans will be a total failure.

As already noted about 'neighborly relations', there is also an onus on the kosovo albanians to follow the same, or do they think they have a carte blanche from Brussels to continue to discriminate widely against all non albanians? It's not just about passing a few laws and saying that they are in compliance of the acquis communautiare, but about implementation. The EU already made that mistake about Bg & Ro who should never have been let in before they cleaned up their act.

So what is the bet, that Thaci will personally lead the campaign to clean up crime and corruption in the albanian controlled part of Kosovo? It will be a blood bath.

Too many hoops to jump through in the EU circus. I say show em' the finger and leave the bigtop. The swiss aren't in the EU, I don't see them begging to join.

This is not about recognition. The EU can not recognise nor not recognise Kosovo. I am on about membership. Kosovo's membership can not be blocked with Lisbon.

Aleks,

You are wrong on multiple levels. For obvious reasons you give way too much credit to Serbia, in regards to the weight it carries in Balkan diplomacy.

Just FYI, Cyprus has an issue with North Cyprus and Turkey, but yet they were indeed accepted into EU.

EU, will not let Serbia be a reason to stop Kosovo's progression towards EU, and in case Kosovo gets in EU before Serbia it will most likely condition Kosovo to not block Serbia's entry into EU.

Ian is just plain wrong on QMV in Lisbon on recognition.

Matters of foreign affairs after Lisbon still requires unanimity. I'm amazed that there are still people out there who peddle this 'QMV for recognitions myth' when it is so easy to check.

The only QMV related to foreign relations at an EU level is for Initiatives of the High Representative for Foreign Affairs which first requires a 'unanimous request' before there can be QMV. Duh!

It is still irrelevant.

Kosovo under the albanians cannot join the EU if they do not a) fulfill the acquis communautaire which they cannot do as long as b) Serbia does not recognize nor cooperate with albanian controlled parts of 'Kosovo' or even the so-called 'borders'. Simply put, without Serbia's agreement 'Kosovo' cannot join the EU as a country regardless of QMV. Thus Serbia has an effective veto.

So, we also have the reverse situation where Serbia cannot technically join as long as the kosovo albanians refuse to talk to Belgrade.

If Serbia decides it doesn't want to join, then there is nothing the EU can do either as it needs Serbia's cooperation to 'stabilize' Kosovo so that the EU won't have to continually subsidize it as it currently does with (ever on the verge of bankruptcy) Bosnian-Croat Federation in Bosnia. All the EU can then do is possibly offer some sort of half-agreement or association agreement, but not full membership.