Bosnian talks still deadlocked

To the entity behind the name Balkan Justice,

Let us all remind you nicely, that BiH is a two entity state ie. Federation of BiH and Republika Srpska. Further, BiH has three constituent peoples, one of which is pushing too hard for something that will never happen - domination.

BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.

Bosnia is a protectorate and the EU,US are sick of the profligate spending by the FBiH, SO MUCH SO THAT IT IS ON THE VERY VERGE OF bANKRUPCY.We Croats, Serbs have had enough of this forced marriage and it is time to call the so-called International Communities bluff.So good bye American Pie and the US lakey English you can take Tihic, Silajdzic with you cos they will pay for the misery they have caused.

Dayton agreement cannot be torn up by Bosniaks simply because they want to rule over everyone.
Two sides clearly don't wish to be in that union any longer and Muslims alone cannot force them to be there.
Unfortunately Croats made a big mistake joining the Muslims during the war. Now it will be much more difficult to separate themselves but not impossible.
Serbs have fought for their RS and sacrificed their reputation for it but it was well worth it. If only Croats had the guts to do the same back then. We would not have Bosnia and Herzegovina now dictating to Serbs and Crots there.
Get some courage now and join the Serbs in their fight against opression.

listen frisco, if you're so concerned with the well being of all balkan people why isn't your stance one such as "let the people decide" instead of one that obviously supports the one/ wrong side??

BalkanJustice,

If the West wants Belgium to become unitairy state, you really think the Dutch-speaking part (who is sick of Belgium) accepts that?

If the EU wants Spain to remove the autonomy of Catalonia and Basque, you think they would accept that?

WHY BOSNIA WOULD BE DIFFERENT?

More power to the regions? In Bosnia but also in Spain and UK! Come on!

"He said that Bosnia-Herzegovina would either continue to function as a two-entity state, respecting the RS or “it won’t exist.”

Wow he really thinks that he has the mandate from heaven. Let me remind Mr. Dodo that Bosnia and Herzegovina is a state which is recognized by the entire international community and which has an army that will defend its interests if it needs to. Every country goes through the painful process of updating and improving their constitution and Bosnia is no different except that its current constitution is among the worst in the word and needs a major do-over. The current constitution is based on a war that involved massive ethnic cleansing and genocide and ended 14 years ago. It is obvious that the current arrangement is unacceptable to the majority of Bosnia's citizens, NATO, and the EU and that it will have to be fundamentally changed despite the misgivings of some politicians.

>>BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.>>

Wow, what a compliment, and one with which I agree.

Here is the deal -- a country cannot function with the kind of system that the "post"-war accords delivered. it was more like a cease-fire agreement, a very short-term solution, that stopped the fighting, but really ended up institutionalizing the genocide and ensuing apartheid. and of course it has been very selectively enforced, for ex. in regards to refugee returns (little), the arrest of war criminals (almost none). so in fact, despite how utterly inadequate it was, Dayton was never fully implemented, and dodik and co. know that, yet cling to this imaginary legality, much as the blgd regime selectively clings to a distorted interpretation of certain UN resolutions in its claims to sovereignty over "its province."

beyond that, there needs to be an updated Bosnian constitution that allows for a strongly functioning federal govt., while still granting some amount of local autonomy. but not on so-called ethnic lines, and not ever again allowing one entity or a set of demagogues to disable and pervert an entire nation. we must learn from our past mistakes!

the so-called intl community has the power to get the appropriate changes made, whether russia or any other power likes it or not is far beside the point. but it will never happen with this namsy pamsy attitude, which i have really become sick of.

have the courage of your (supposed) conviction, or get out of the way and let others do the negotiation.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

I see, you obviously hate the Serbs so much that you would rather take away all their control and put it in the hands of idiots for the sake of your obvious bias.

Go and preach your rubbish somewhere else. I know you are always well received on an Albanian site. You will get supprters there.
(Peggy, 22 October 2009 03:02)

Peggy, this is Roberto's train of peace but without the Serbs! I believe as a long as he lives we'll hear the same "listen to me, I know it all"

>>BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.>>

Wow, what a compliment, and one with which I agree.
(roberto, 21 October 2009 21:47)

Well Frisco you could join them as well.Hardly do I believe that this Pseudocourt could find a better spokesperson .Your sober preachers fit their style of rethorics.

Anti-Footscray said:

Peggy wrote: "If only Croats had the guts to do the same back then. We would not have Bosnia and Herzegovina now dictating to Serbs and Croats there". Well for your information Peggy as your memory span is quite short I will fill you in on the true facts. Tudjman wanted a division of BiH for both Croats & Serbs=Milosevic re-negged

No, no , no, it was Izetbegovic which took it all back. He signed the agreement and then was told to take it back.

Yes, Tudjman and Milosevic did have a deal but it was the Croats who broke the deal because they thought they would win by siding with Muslims. You guys realised that US was going to back the Muslims so you thought you would hitch your wagon to the winning side. How wrong you were, because now your own people feel like losers and are jealous of what Serbs have. Their own territory, legally.

Serbs had to continue fighting your people because of the switch, a stab in the back you might say.
It is you who has a short memory.

seems that BalkanJustice has created the whole scenario of whats gonna happen in his imagination. According to him there is gonna be a new war and serbs will lose because the whole international community will back the muslims and half of the serbs will be exiled. Maybe that is what you really wish to happen isen't it Balkanjustice?

Wow Roberto, you would say and do anything to take the power away from the Serbs.
The way Bosnia is being run is a joke and they could learn something from RS. I say, give more power to the Serbs because they know how to govern properly. RS is proof fo that. Why do you want to get rid of the very people who are successful and replace them with corrupt, inadequate ones?

I see, you obviously hate the Serbs so much that you would rather take away all their control and put it in the hands of idiots for the sake of your obvious bias.

Go and preach your rubbish somewhere else. I know you are always well received on an Albanian site. You will get supprters there.

Because the Bosnian Serbs ethnically cleansed and committed genocide against Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats using Yugoslav weapons the Bosnian Serbs unilateral decisions will never be accepted by the other two sides. If the Serbs do a referendum the response will be a new war in which the "RS" entity will be cut in half and politically proclaimed dead. A new constitution will be drawn up and a new territorial arrangement will be agreed upon by the victors of the war and the international community. The Bosnian Serbs that accept the new constitution will stay in Bosnia as Bosnian citizens and those that don't will leave for Serbia and other countries that will take them. It is in the Bosnian Serb's own interest to support constitutional changes which make the country functional so that the country can move towards Euro-Atlantic integrations peacefully.

BalkanJustice, your philosophy towards Serbs is the same as the one ustase had in ww2 - ante would be proud of you!

The regions in Belgium are based on ethnicity too! Kosovo was taken from Serbia because it 'has a huge Albanian majority'. Why should things be different for Bosnia?

Do like Belgium: more power to the regions! Only do on the central level what is really necessary.

And the deal was made in 90s. Indeed to stop the war. But then don't change the rules when there is peace.

Again: power to the regions. And join EU asap!

Peggy wrote: "If only Croats had the guts to do the same back then. We would not have Bosnia and Herzegovina now dictating to Serbs and Croats there". Well for your information Peggy as your memory span is quite short I will fill you in on the true facts. Tudjman wanted a division of BiH for both Croats & Serbs=Milosevic re-negged instead attacking Croats( TZV Krajina & Posavina Corridor). In 1993 we were willing to forgive the Serbs for the aggression in 1991-1992 and again sit with the Serbs in 1993 in regards to division of BiH for Croats & Serbs ( Graz Agreement )and still the Serbs stab us in the back. Serbs were deffinately their own worst enemy. Our young could've lived happily or even tolareted each other in BiH but instead we are worse off than in the war. When are we ever going to learn?

Nikos look at the geography and geopolitics we are dealing with. If Dodik were to provoke a war it would definetely result in him losing his power since he does not have the resources to maintain a prolonged military offensive and he would not have the support of the international community. In the long run having a democratic and multi-ethnic Bosnian state that is in NATO and the EU is in the interest of Bosnian citizens, Bosnia's neighbors,the US, and the EU. The only thing that Dodik is clinging to is the Dayton Accords and if he is the one who breaks them then he won't have anything to hold on to and will end up losing everything. Dodik is a gambler and so far he's been lucky with his bets, but just as in the real world one wrong bet would lead to him losing it all.

Balkan Justice

No changes and it will continue as usual with the UE paying for everything and being financially bled dry.

Milorad Dodik is only the messenger. This is bigger than just Serbia as you seem to read the situation, and why would Serbia waste its money on wars when the RS will break away in the long run anyway and if you’re waiting for NATO to help you I would not put my money in that bank. This is not the 1990s.

Once the US extricates itself from the two quagmires, its next war will be in 2090 if it’s still a united states.

Another item that you always raise is this thing called ‘democracy’ and its solution to all ills. What you’re interpreting as ‘democracy’ is actually money which is the glue that keeps a multi ethnic country from exploding. No money, boom!

# >>BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.>>

Wow, what a compliment, and one with which I agree.
(roberto, 21 October 2009 21:47)

Well Frisco you could join them as well.Hardly do I believe that this Pseudocourt could find a better spokesperson .Your sober preachers fit their style of rethorics.
(szemi, 22 October 2009 02:05)


thank you, szemi. i really do take that as a compliment, and hope and pray that i would do the best job possible in the most incredibly trying of circumstances, no pun intended.

the hague tribunal is our modern-day Nuremberg trial process; imperfect as both have been, it's the best we mere humans can come up with. god bless the hague.

i do love these infrequent agreements with posters on the other side.

roberto
frisco

"He said that Bosnia-Herzegovina would either continue to function as a two-entity state, respecting the RS or “it won’t exist.”

Wow he really thinks that he has the mandate from heaven. Let me remind Mr. Dodo that Bosnia and Herzegovina is a state which is recognized by the entire international community and which has an army that will defend its interests if it needs to. Every country goes through the painful process of updating and improving their constitution and Bosnia is no different except that its current constitution is among the worst in the word and needs a major do-over. The current constitution is based on a war that involved massive ethnic cleansing and genocide and ended 14 years ago. It is obvious that the current arrangement is unacceptable to the majority of Bosnia's citizens, NATO, and the EU and that it will have to be fundamentally changed despite the misgivings of some politicians.

>>BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.>>

Wow, what a compliment, and one with which I agree.

Here is the deal -- a country cannot function with the kind of system that the "post"-war accords delivered. it was more like a cease-fire agreement, a very short-term solution, that stopped the fighting, but really ended up institutionalizing the genocide and ensuing apartheid. and of course it has been very selectively enforced, for ex. in regards to refugee returns (little), the arrest of war criminals (almost none). so in fact, despite how utterly inadequate it was, Dayton was never fully implemented, and dodik and co. know that, yet cling to this imaginary legality, much as the blgd regime selectively clings to a distorted interpretation of certain UN resolutions in its claims to sovereignty over "its province."

beyond that, there needs to be an updated Bosnian constitution that allows for a strongly functioning federal govt., while still granting some amount of local autonomy. but not on so-called ethnic lines, and not ever again allowing one entity or a set of demagogues to disable and pervert an entire nation. we must learn from our past mistakes!

the so-called intl community has the power to get the appropriate changes made, whether russia or any other power likes it or not is far beside the point. but it will never happen with this namsy pamsy attitude, which i have really become sick of.

have the courage of your (supposed) conviction, or get out of the way and let others do the negotiation.

ciao!

roberto
frisco

Dayton agreement cannot be torn up by Bosniaks simply because they want to rule over everyone.
Two sides clearly don't wish to be in that union any longer and Muslims alone cannot force them to be there.
Unfortunately Croats made a big mistake joining the Muslims during the war. Now it will be much more difficult to separate themselves but not impossible.
Serbs have fought for their RS and sacrificed their reputation for it but it was well worth it. If only Croats had the guts to do the same back then. We would not have Bosnia and Herzegovina now dictating to Serbs and Crots there.
Get some courage now and join the Serbs in their fight against opression.

To the entity behind the name Balkan Justice,

Let us all remind you nicely, that BiH is a two entity state ie. Federation of BiH and Republika Srpska. Further, BiH has three constituent peoples, one of which is pushing too hard for something that will never happen - domination.

Because the Bosnian Serbs ethnically cleansed and committed genocide against Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats using Yugoslav weapons the Bosnian Serbs unilateral decisions will never be accepted by the other two sides. If the Serbs do a referendum the response will be a new war in which the "RS" entity will be cut in half and politically proclaimed dead. A new constitution will be drawn up and a new territorial arrangement will be agreed upon by the victors of the war and the international community. The Bosnian Serbs that accept the new constitution will stay in Bosnia as Bosnian citizens and those that don't will leave for Serbia and other countries that will take them. It is in the Bosnian Serb's own interest to support constitutional changes which make the country functional so that the country can move towards Euro-Atlantic integrations peacefully.

Peggy wrote: "If only Croats had the guts to do the same back then. We would not have Bosnia and Herzegovina now dictating to Serbs and Croats there". Well for your information Peggy as your memory span is quite short I will fill you in on the true facts. Tudjman wanted a division of BiH for both Croats & Serbs=Milosevic re-negged instead attacking Croats( TZV Krajina & Posavina Corridor). In 1993 we were willing to forgive the Serbs for the aggression in 1991-1992 and again sit with the Serbs in 1993 in regards to division of BiH for Croats & Serbs ( Graz Agreement )and still the Serbs stab us in the back. Serbs were deffinately their own worst enemy. Our young could've lived happily or even tolareted each other in BiH but instead we are worse off than in the war. When are we ever going to learn?

Bosnia is a protectorate and the EU,US are sick of the profligate spending by the FBiH, SO MUCH SO THAT IT IS ON THE VERY VERGE OF bANKRUPCY.We Croats, Serbs have had enough of this forced marriage and it is time to call the so-called International Communities bluff.So good bye American Pie and the US lakey English you can take Tihic, Silajdzic with you cos they will pay for the misery they have caused.

BalkanJustice,

If the West wants Belgium to become unitairy state, you really think the Dutch-speaking part (who is sick of Belgium) accepts that?

If the EU wants Spain to remove the autonomy of Catalonia and Basque, you think they would accept that?

WHY BOSNIA WOULD BE DIFFERENT?

More power to the regions? In Bosnia but also in Spain and UK! Come on!

listen frisco, if you're so concerned with the well being of all balkan people why isn't your stance one such as "let the people decide" instead of one that obviously supports the one/ wrong side??

Wow Roberto, you would say and do anything to take the power away from the Serbs.
The way Bosnia is being run is a joke and they could learn something from RS. I say, give more power to the Serbs because they know how to govern properly. RS is proof fo that. Why do you want to get rid of the very people who are successful and replace them with corrupt, inadequate ones?

I see, you obviously hate the Serbs so much that you would rather take away all their control and put it in the hands of idiots for the sake of your obvious bias.

Go and preach your rubbish somewhere else. I know you are always well received on an Albanian site. You will get supprters there.

The regions in Belgium are based on ethnicity too! Kosovo was taken from Serbia because it 'has a huge Albanian majority'. Why should things be different for Bosnia?

Do like Belgium: more power to the regions! Only do on the central level what is really necessary.

And the deal was made in 90s. Indeed to stop the war. But then don't change the rules when there is peace.

Again: power to the regions. And join EU asap!

Nikos look at the geography and geopolitics we are dealing with. If Dodik were to provoke a war it would definetely result in him losing his power since he does not have the resources to maintain a prolonged military offensive and he would not have the support of the international community. In the long run having a democratic and multi-ethnic Bosnian state that is in NATO and the EU is in the interest of Bosnian citizens, Bosnia's neighbors,the US, and the EU. The only thing that Dodik is clinging to is the Dayton Accords and if he is the one who breaks them then he won't have anything to hold on to and will end up losing everything. Dodik is a gambler and so far he's been lucky with his bets, but just as in the real world one wrong bet would lead to him losing it all.

# >>BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.>>

Wow, what a compliment, and one with which I agree.
(roberto, 21 October 2009 21:47)

Well Frisco you could join them as well.Hardly do I believe that this Pseudocourt could find a better spokesperson .Your sober preachers fit their style of rethorics.
(szemi, 22 October 2009 02:05)


thank you, szemi. i really do take that as a compliment, and hope and pray that i would do the best job possible in the most incredibly trying of circumstances, no pun intended.

the hague tribunal is our modern-day Nuremberg trial process; imperfect as both have been, it's the best we mere humans can come up with. god bless the hague.

i do love these infrequent agreements with posters on the other side.

roberto
frisco

BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.

>>BalkanJustice, you should work for the Hague... you'd fit right in with the rest of them.>>

Wow, what a compliment, and one with which I agree.
(roberto, 21 October 2009 21:47)

Well Frisco you could join them as well.Hardly do I believe that this Pseudocourt could find a better spokesperson .Your sober preachers fit their style of rethorics.

I see, you obviously hate the Serbs so much that you would rather take away all their control and put it in the hands of idiots for the sake of your obvious bias.

Go and preach your rubbish somewhere else. I know you are always well received on an Albanian site. You will get supprters there.
(Peggy, 22 October 2009 03:02)

Peggy, this is Roberto's train of peace but without the Serbs! I believe as a long as he lives we'll hear the same "listen to me, I know it all"

Anti-Footscray said:

Peggy wrote: "If only Croats had the guts to do the same back then. We would not have Bosnia and Herzegovina now dictating to Serbs and Croats there". Well for your information Peggy as your memory span is quite short I will fill you in on the true facts. Tudjman wanted a division of BiH for both Croats & Serbs=Milosevic re-negged

No, no , no, it was Izetbegovic which took it all back. He signed the agreement and then was told to take it back.

Yes, Tudjman and Milosevic did have a deal but it was the Croats who broke the deal because they thought they would win by siding with Muslims. You guys realised that US was going to back the Muslims so you thought you would hitch your wagon to the winning side. How wrong you were, because now your own people feel like losers and are jealous of what Serbs have. Their own territory, legally.

Serbs had to continue fighting your people because of the switch, a stab in the back you might say.
It is you who has a short memory.

seems that BalkanJustice has created the whole scenario of whats gonna happen in his imagination. According to him there is gonna be a new war and serbs will lose because the whole international community will back the muslims and half of the serbs will be exiled. Maybe that is what you really wish to happen isen't it Balkanjustice?

BalkanJustice, your philosophy towards Serbs is the same as the one ustase had in ww2 - ante would be proud of you!

Balkan Justice

No changes and it will continue as usual with the UE paying for everything and being financially bled dry.

Milorad Dodik is only the messenger. This is bigger than just Serbia as you seem to read the situation, and why would Serbia waste its money on wars when the RS will break away in the long run anyway and if you’re waiting for NATO to help you I would not put my money in that bank. This is not the 1990s.

Once the US extricates itself from the two quagmires, its next war will be in 2090 if it’s still a united states.

Another item that you always raise is this thing called ‘democracy’ and its solution to all ills. What you’re interpreting as ‘democracy’ is actually money which is the glue that keeps a multi ethnic country from exploding. No money, boom!