No breakthrough at “mini Dayton”

We Croats are only a minority in BiH, that;s why we need the Serbs to lead the way in regards to independence from Muslim lead Bosnia, Croats will follow immediately. Do our young have to suffer another generation because Sarajevo wants to destroy christianity for good. Why are people trying to keep this so called country together... Rep. Srpska and Herceg-Bosna can work together for a better future,let us be free!

Can someone please explain to me why reality on the ground only applies to Kosovo but not to Bosnia? I sometimes wonder how democratic Europe and America really are. Most Serbs and Croats have clearly stated that they want nothing to do with the sharia aspiring muslim government in Sarajevo. If Izetbegovic wouldn't insist on making an islamic republic of Bosnia in the first place we wouldn't be in this predicament. Serbs and Croats make up a majority of Bosnias population and still no one is asking them what they really want. Is that democracy? Serb and Croat leaders in Bosnia were elected by their people and therefore represent the views of ordinary Serbs and Croats. The West is trying to create another frankenstien monster. It won't last in the long run and it will backfire on them more than they can imagine.

Croatia will need to put Krajina on the table if it wants to negotiate any type of partition in Bosnia. Otherwise Serbians have no incentive to help Croatians as I believe the original Bosnian negotiations involved Krajina.

As a non-Serb from Western Europe I really don't understand why Kosovo should be able to leave Serbia while RS has to stay in Bosnia?

I think it is time for all sides to be honest? Do you want to say in Bosnia:

Serbs: no!
Croatians: no!
Muslims: well, yes.

OK, so split Bosnia if that his the best. But only a mutual agreed deal is allowed. Just like in the case of Bosnia!

Or does the UN/EU want to stay in Bosnia for 15 more years?

Be honest: Bosnia is an artificial state nobody reall wants!

My dear Balkan friends. Where were these negotiators when Jugoslavia was begining to fall apart in 1989? That is when Bosna died! Trying to ride a dead horse is something the socialist EC, especially Germans are masters at. They will have to re-draw borders again... or its another war!

Never say toooo late in the Balkans.

The Serbs are in a much different position today, then in other times in history.
RS ask for what is yours-

PRN

You don't get territory base on how big the populaiton is. Serbs were in control of over 50 perecent of the territory in Bosnia but had to settle for less. Muslims lived mainly in cities and Serbs on the countryside.
Get your facts strait next time.

"Regarding the number and composition of the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 2005, the most current is the assessment which cites 4,025,476 million inhabitants, as per ethnicity, including 48% Bosniaks (Muslim), 14.3% Croats, 37% Serbs and 0.6% others."

There you have it. Christian majority!

BlagoZadro,

"Do our young have to suffer another generation because Sarajevo wants to destroy christianity for good."

So now we are Christians together? How about the 250,000 "Christians" you evicted from Croatia?

Serbs will never fight your battle. Croats just want to take advantage of RS and "see what happens". Then if Serbs get what they want then they will follow! I thought Croats were courageous? Seek independence on your own! Don't use Serbs AGIAN.

I was in Bosnia two weeks ago, and the Republika Srpska is wonderful. The streets are clean and the police and public are polite. It reminded me of Northern Arizona quite a bit.

In the Federation, however, I was amazed at all the Turkish flags, the bearded men, and all the pretty girls wearing the hideous Islamic garb. I even saw very scary Taliban looking men and women in downtown Sarajevo. It's easy for these Western diplomats to say Serbs and Croats should live in a Muslim dominated state, but would these same Westerners do the same? Of course not. If the Bosnian federation is so wonderful, the EU would let Turkey join. Westerners don't like Muslim dominated governments any more than Serbs or Croats do, and they would have done exactly the same as Bosnian Christians did in the last war, but they are too cynical to admit it. And now they want the Serbs and Croats to pay the price for that cynicism. The day the EU lets Turkey join is the day Westerners have the right to tell Serbs to centeralize their government.

Pre- Bosnian war, the Bosnian Muslims made up around 52% of the total population, 31 % were Serbs, about 14 % Croat and the rest Albanians, Hungarian, Gypsies etc.

For real peace to be implemented Bosnians should get 51-52% of total Bosnian teritory, (including the Srebrenica, where the genocide took place) as well as Sanjak.

Serbs should get around 32% of the Bosnian teritory and get united with the Serbia proper, while Croats should get their 14% of their teritory and unite with Croatia.

This is the ultimate peace, otherwise expect war, where Serbs (the culprits of all war in the 1990s) will lose the most this time.

peace

Once again, Serbs holding hostage the rest of ethnic groups who want to move forward and integrate within the EU. They did the same in Yugoslavia where they wanted to overrule all other republics by installing Serb loyal and illegitimate governments in Kosovo and Vojvodia . We know all what happen after that. The EU and U.S know that the foundation of Republica Serbska is based on a confirmed genocide and they are trying to undue that monstrous creation. But it's probably to late now. The EU and US need to get it through their heads that the problem problem lies in Belgrade not in Banja Luka. As long as Serbia agitates against her neighbors there will be problems in the region.

Simply put, Serbia should get Krajina and RS in Bosnia. Croatia should have part of Bosnia and Muslims the remainder. However... outside countries have other interests in each and are contributing to all the problems and to some extent are the real problem.

Here is the deal, if I were Dodik, I would never negotiate with the U.S and EU without a Russian counterpart!Sergey Lavrov the least needs to be in the negotiation, though I would rather have Putin! I used help refugees from Bosnia during the war(the majority Muslims), I learned a lot from those refugees and I understood why Croatians and Serbs doesn't want anything to do with Bosniaks.

This is the ultimate peace, otherwise expect war, where Serbs (the culprits of all war in the 1990s) will lose the most this time.

(PRN, 9 October 2009 14:57)

This is news to me! I never knew that SERBIA wanted to seceede from Yugoslavia... I always thought that it was the Western backed seperatists in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia that started the break up...

Also my friend, if we use your 'stats' and say that Serbs made up 32% of the pop in Bosnia, how exactly did they LOSE if they now control 50% of the territory?

MikeC:
“You don't get territory base on how big the population is. Serbs were in control of over 50 percent of the territory in Bosnia but had to settle for less. Muslims lived mainly in cities and Serbs on the countryside. Get your facts strait next time.”

No Mike, you need to get your facts straight. What you say here is merely a product of your imagination, or of Karadzic propaganda. Some 50 percent of Bosnian land pre-war was owned by the state, not individuals, so you cannot say it belonged to “Serbs” or “Muslims” (or what about the quarter of the population who were mixed Serb-Muslim-Croats?). Of the privately-owned land, Bosnian land registers show it was owned at much the same ration as the population breakdown. Thus the Karadzic-Owen claim that “Serbs” “owned” 64 percent of Bosnia pre-war is an elaborate fiction. Serbs “owned” about one third of private land, ie, about one sixth of Bosnian land. Thus at Dayton they did not “have to settle for less” as you claim, on the contrary, they only “had to settle for less” of their ill-gotten gains from ethnic cleansing – Republika Srpska had conquered 70 percent of Bosnia via massive military superiority and a sensational level of brutal ethnic cleansing, but had to “settle” for “only” 50 percent as they got at Dayton – ie, far more than they were entitled to, a huge gift to Serb nationalists from Holbrooke, to who they should be forever grateful. About one third to half of the pre-war population of what is now RS were non-Serbs who were cleansed. Historical fact.

Thus PRN is spot-on – if you want to split Bosnia, then the Muslim/Bosniak state you plan to create should get over 55 percent of Bosnia, RS reduced to about 30-33 percent and can join Serbia, and your Croat extremist allies (and Thompson fans) down in West Herzegovina can get about 12-15 percent max and join Croatia (if Mesic wants a bar of them) – but since they are joining their “fatherlands”, then as PRN said, that also means Sanzak to Bosnia – otherwise tell me just what exactly you think the difference is.

That is why Republika Srpska is not like Kosova – because except for north of the Ibar, even if every single Serb refugee returns to Kosova (as I hope most do) that would not make a figleaf of difference to the long existing absolute Albanian majority in every other part of Kosova. But sure, swap north of the Ibar for Presevo, if that’s what you want.

"Can someone please explain to me why reality on the ground only applies to Kosovo but not to Bosnia?
ZoranC"

A short answer to a long list would be:

1) Srebrenica
2) Bihac region, no one won't create Gaza in the middle of Europe
3) new war would break and new wave of refugees would flood Europe, new genocide would be committed...

So keeping the status-quo with small Constitutional changes to make the state functional is the best option for everyone but the nationalists on all sides just to conceal their criminal and corruption activities.

"Croatia succeeds from the union" Lincoln to address the nation tonight..

Be honest: Bosnia is an artificial state nobody reall wants!
(Ron,

Wow,so as an unbias "westener" you want to use what other people think as a gauge to guide wich countries are "wanted"?

you are twisted man.

in that way the ammount of genocides that would happen its not even be a joke.
You are wishing a curse, a curse that would effect you and i and all greavly.

Croatia will need to put Krajina on the table if it wants to negotiate any type of partition in Bosnia

It is TOOOOO late for that.

Amazing aren’t they? I mean these Croats. While they are being kicked around all Christians should band together but when they are doing the kicking its “God and Croatians”. Croats are a minority in BiH and by 2014 they will not be even that and so now they are pleading with Serbs to protect them and bring them under the Republika Srpska umbrella.

Surely the powerful and mighty Croatia, you know the economic power house which existed in the Croatians minds while they were part of the old Yugoslavia, can protect its own people.

However, what about the Serbs which they kicked out of Croatia? Well we won’t talk about that one because deep down we hate those Serbs and we wish to erect a statue to Ante Pavelic, but they have to help us in BiH. Amazing aren’t they?

The question was asked why can’t BiH be divided and the parts go their separate ways. It’s not because the Muslims would have a non-viable state. You already have two Albania and Kosovo. It’s because the EU would have to fund its survival, pay for police, education, roads etc. for ever. The reason why this troupe from the EU and US is in Bosnia at the moment is to try last minute patch up deals. The money is running out and the spending has not revived most world economies and time is very short. I hate to say this but as it stands the EU and US could very easily go into depression.

The EU’s plan is to have all these new countries work as before where Serbia provides the raw materials, provide subsidies in the form of energy, transport tax concessions and takes the heavy loads – I think you get the idea by now. The Slovenes and Croats would then process the raw materials, pay minimum to Serbia’s producers and keep the profits. Naturally, the rest of would also get some crumbs off the table.

Why do you think Slovenia and Croatia constantly talk about signing trade agreements with Serbia? They want the old deals back. Slovenia is existing because the EU is keeping it a float through the Austrians. The EU wants to show those recalcitrant Serbs what a paradise exists on their doorstep and they will have the same only if they did what they are told. If you want to see the real picture of what will happen just look at the other former eastern block countries next to Serbia. which are

Wow,so as an unbias "westener" you want to use what other people think as a gauge to guide wich countries are "wanted"?

(troika melb, 9 October 2009 19:06)

Please don't get me wrong. We really do not need new states (so no Kosovo also!).

But the Croats and Serbs I speak with - I travel a lot i Eastern Europe - don't feel Bosnian but Croat or Serb!

If Bosnia really is a state all three groups liked, then why Croats are supporting Croation football team and Muslims the Turkish (!) football team?

And after 'Kosovo' does the West have the moral right to force Serbs AND CROATS to stay in Bosnia?

Peace,

So you predict calamity for the Serbs if they don’t fall into line. How is that going to happen? Are Bosniaks are going to take up arms and force the Serbs to relinquish their lands or do you think that NATO is going to bomb Serbia into submission. This is not 1999 and the US does not wish to have another battle ground in Europe, they have enough with their current little sink holes, and because there are other big time players that will get involved this time.

All the Serbs need is patience and everything will come to them in an orderly manner. The first group to take up arms will be declared an aggressor by the international community and nothing will be achieved and they will lose everything. The EU is getting a little tired of Haris Silajdžić’s rants and veiled threats against the Serbs and he has been told accordingly.

Vladimir, have you been to the Potocari cemetary? Have you paid your respects to the victims of the Srebrenica Genocide? Because that genocide is also part of what Bosnian Serbs did in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Have you visited Banja Luka and seen the rebuilding of the Ferhadija mosque which the Bosnian Serbs destroyed? Please do not talk to me about the clean streets and forget to mention the killing and raping fields.

"Republika Srpska had conquered 70 percent of Bosnia via massive military superiority."
Dim Tuc

You make it sound like Serbs never lived in Bosnia and came from Serbia and conquered 70 Ppercent of that territory.
Serbs were already living in these areas. They were mainly farmers and the territory DID belong to them and had previously been owned by their grandfathers and not by muslims who came to the country 400 years before that.

Kosovo is not a much different story. Serbs were a majority before WW2. However, Tito did not allow Serbs to return to Kosovo after the war ended and due to high birthrates,
and latere on an influx of Albanians from Albania, you became a majority. Just look at how many children an Albanian couple has. 8-12 is not unusual. How can you not become a majority?
You mean if arabs become a majority in south of Germany they would have a right to demand independence? The fact is that Albanians don't have any real proof of being in Kosovo before the Turks came.
No proof what so ever!

Besides if you and other Albanians are going to continue to blame Serbs for the wars in the 90s I suggest you take a look at this documentary and get your facts straight.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571&hl=en#

""""Kosovo is not a much different story. Serbs were a majority before WW2. However, Tito did not allow Serbs to return to Kosovo after the war ended and due to high birthrates,
and latere on an influx of Albanians from Albania, you became a majority."""""


dear Mike C, if u continue watching documentaries shot by Milosevic or his friends, than ur story is true!!!

According to world history, albanians (at that time illyrians) were in the Ballkans at least 1600 years before slavic tribes even came there. And please dont tell me that illyrians were the ancesters of slavs.
so how can serbs have been majority, when they came 1600 years later???
when Rome invaded the Ballkans fought against illyrians, not against slavs, cos they were not there YET! i suggest u check your history better!

I can't believe people trace back their DNA to 1600 years ago. There is no pure race. Albanians are Illyrians? Serbs from today are not "the same" as Serbs of 1000 years ago. Greeks don't have the same race as they did a thousand years ETC.... Genetics and evolution change ethnicities through war and migration/immigration. That is why its silly to hear Albanians compare themselves to peoples from 1600 years ago. What happened to that Arian race? Maybe Albanians want to bring back the Illyrian race as well? Good luck trcing your DNA from 1600 years ago!

Let's get one thing straight: no one can force the Bosnian Serbs to love Bosnia but no one can give the Bosnian Serbs Bosnian land without the permission of all the Bosnian people. The Bosnian people (all three ethnic/religious groups) own the sovereign territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina and any decision regarding that land needs to be agreed upon by all three peoples in a democratic manner. The Bosnian Serbs can not unilaterally decide what is their land and what is the Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats land especially after the ethnic cleansing and genocide that they committed a decade ago. BiH belongs to all of its citizens and it is the entire citizenry of the country that gets to make decisions regarding their country. If it is stated that it is permissible to use ethnic cleansing and genocide to achieve political objectives then all peoples all over the world all allowed to use those methods. This of course is not permissible in today's world and hence the only solution for Bosnia and Herzegovina is to create a state in which all people can live in peace and prosperity and have their individual as well as ethnic/religious rights respected.

To MikeC,

Dear MikeC you are one the men that most probably has read only one book and only that book that makes you to belive that you are right.
I simply can not understand you how you can say that albanians do not live in Kosovo before turks, are you really in earth??? who fought against turks firstly in ballcan? answer: albanians. Skenderbeg simply kept his kingdom for more than 25 years, protecting europe from turk invasion and thats why Skenderbeg's statute you will find in many cities through europe (Rome, Vienna etc...). Also before the slavs cooming to ballcan peninsula were ancestors of albanians living in all that area so called Illyrians => Arberians=> Albanians. For this all there are facts, for example there are living hal a million albanians in south Italy (they call themselvs Arberesh) who left Albania after Skenderbeg died and turks invaded Albania. BTW do not try to push the idea that in Kosovo before WW2 was no albanians living there, they did not fall there from sky, simply they lived there for millenias.
I would rather ask you to check the documents what has happen in 1878 to more than 300000 albanians of Toplica and Kosanica that has been pulled out of their homes and lands by serbian force, an international agreement was made on that time in Budapest to return these people at their homes and never has happen.

Centurione Massimo and Ballkan

MikeC is talking about Albanians being a minority in Kosovo before WWII, he didnt say that they weren't present in Balkan area. please read people's post carefully before responding

BalkanJustice

The Serbs do not need Bosniak or Croat permission to leave that failed State. Read the Dayton Agreement.

The reason why the Serbs have not yet left Bosnia is because the EU is giving it pots of money, but that’s running out and the Serbs are positioning themselves for an exit from Bosnia. The EU constantly threatens no recognition, but it only needs one country to recognise it, but I have heard that several others will too.

I don't understand what it takes to convince people that Bosnia does not work. You don't force two people that have a bad marriage to stay together so why hang on to a fairytale of happiness and brotherly love. Had the Bosniaks remained neutral in Bosnia things would not have changed, but you took up arms against the Serbs and it’s finished – what part of this statement don’t you understand. Bosniaks and Croats do not own the whole of Bosnia, it’s not their personal fiefdom.

If you want to blame someone go to Alia Izetbegovic’s grave and blame him!

Vladimir perhaps if you had time to talk to some of these scary muslims or pretty girls dressed in horrible muslim clothes, then you may have discovered that the so called Turkish flags were flags for Ramazan, sort of like saying what the hell are all these fat old guys doing in red suits around 25th December. As for the RS being a nice place to visit, my friend it is a haunted blood stained place and will remain so until some sort of penance is made for the lives of friends, neighbors, colleagues, strangers methodically and shamefully wiped away. Jesus wept.

"Balkan Justice"
may I ask you Haqve you EVER been
in Jasenovac in your life?
To see what your grandfathers did
to their neighbours 1941.

That was the REAL genocide.

Why is it that whenever it comes to debate the Serb supporters bring up war and aggression as their problem solving solution, then demonize their opposition? The fact that Bos Serbs killed their neighbors in an orchestrated pre-emptive attack because they have no patience to walk the democratic path suggests their credibility as trustworthy community spokespersons is sorely tested. A path that will never be trodden if they continue to debate politics based upon religion and not citizenship. The islamic jihad nonsense is really a fear tactic that is as transparent as it is wrong. Time for openness not bully boy stand over threats.

(Ballkan, 10 October 2009 13:15)
There was no Serbian army in Kosmet in 1878-1912! That was period of ottoman and albanian ethnic cleansing of serbs in Kosmet. Not just serbians but also non-Serbs testify that. Dont try to twist facts!

I just wanted to add that B92 did not published my last comment and there was a link that can show to MikeC the truth about expelling albanians from Toplica and Kosanica during 1878!
At least I would like to ask B92 to send the link to MikeC directly to his e-mail.
Thanks

Pre- Bosnian war, the Bosnian Muslims made up around 52% of the total population, 31 % were Serbs, about 14 % Croat and the rest Albanians, Hungarian, Gypsies etc.

For real peace to be implemented Bosnians should get 51-52% of total Bosnian teritory, (including the Srebrenica, where the genocide took place) as well as Sanjak.

Serbs should get around 32% of the Bosnian teritory and get united with the Serbia proper, while Croats should get their 14% of their teritory and unite with Croatia.

This is the ultimate peace, otherwise expect war, where Serbs (the culprits of all war in the 1990s) will lose the most this time.

peace

"Can someone please explain to me why reality on the ground only applies to Kosovo but not to Bosnia?
ZoranC"

A short answer to a long list would be:

1) Srebrenica
2) Bihac region, no one won't create Gaza in the middle of Europe
3) new war would break and new wave of refugees would flood Europe, new genocide would be committed...

So keeping the status-quo with small Constitutional changes to make the state functional is the best option for everyone but the nationalists on all sides just to conceal their criminal and corruption activities.

Croatia will need to put Krajina on the table if it wants to negotiate any type of partition in Bosnia

It is TOOOOO late for that.

We Croats are only a minority in BiH, that;s why we need the Serbs to lead the way in regards to independence from Muslim lead Bosnia, Croats will follow immediately. Do our young have to suffer another generation because Sarajevo wants to destroy christianity for good. Why are people trying to keep this so called country together... Rep. Srpska and Herceg-Bosna can work together for a better future,let us be free!

Once again, Serbs holding hostage the rest of ethnic groups who want to move forward and integrate within the EU. They did the same in Yugoslavia where they wanted to overrule all other republics by installing Serb loyal and illegitimate governments in Kosovo and Vojvodia . We know all what happen after that. The EU and U.S know that the foundation of Republica Serbska is based on a confirmed genocide and they are trying to undue that monstrous creation. But it's probably to late now. The EU and US need to get it through their heads that the problem problem lies in Belgrade not in Banja Luka. As long as Serbia agitates against her neighbors there will be problems in the region.

MikeC:
“You don't get territory base on how big the population is. Serbs were in control of over 50 percent of the territory in Bosnia but had to settle for less. Muslims lived mainly in cities and Serbs on the countryside. Get your facts strait next time.”

No Mike, you need to get your facts straight. What you say here is merely a product of your imagination, or of Karadzic propaganda. Some 50 percent of Bosnian land pre-war was owned by the state, not individuals, so you cannot say it belonged to “Serbs” or “Muslims” (or what about the quarter of the population who were mixed Serb-Muslim-Croats?). Of the privately-owned land, Bosnian land registers show it was owned at much the same ration as the population breakdown. Thus the Karadzic-Owen claim that “Serbs” “owned” 64 percent of Bosnia pre-war is an elaborate fiction. Serbs “owned” about one third of private land, ie, about one sixth of Bosnian land. Thus at Dayton they did not “have to settle for less” as you claim, on the contrary, they only “had to settle for less” of their ill-gotten gains from ethnic cleansing – Republika Srpska had conquered 70 percent of Bosnia via massive military superiority and a sensational level of brutal ethnic cleansing, but had to “settle” for “only” 50 percent as they got at Dayton – ie, far more than they were entitled to, a huge gift to Serb nationalists from Holbrooke, to who they should be forever grateful. About one third to half of the pre-war population of what is now RS were non-Serbs who were cleansed. Historical fact.

Thus PRN is spot-on – if you want to split Bosnia, then the Muslim/Bosniak state you plan to create should get over 55 percent of Bosnia, RS reduced to about 30-33 percent and can join Serbia, and your Croat extremist allies (and Thompson fans) down in West Herzegovina can get about 12-15 percent max and join Croatia (if Mesic wants a bar of them) – but since they are joining their “fatherlands”, then as PRN said, that also means Sanzak to Bosnia – otherwise tell me just what exactly you think the difference is.

That is why Republika Srpska is not like Kosova – because except for north of the Ibar, even if every single Serb refugee returns to Kosova (as I hope most do) that would not make a figleaf of difference to the long existing absolute Albanian majority in every other part of Kosova. But sure, swap north of the Ibar for Presevo, if that’s what you want.

Can someone please explain to me why reality on the ground only applies to Kosovo but not to Bosnia? I sometimes wonder how democratic Europe and America really are. Most Serbs and Croats have clearly stated that they want nothing to do with the sharia aspiring muslim government in Sarajevo. If Izetbegovic wouldn't insist on making an islamic republic of Bosnia in the first place we wouldn't be in this predicament. Serbs and Croats make up a majority of Bosnias population and still no one is asking them what they really want. Is that democracy? Serb and Croat leaders in Bosnia were elected by their people and therefore represent the views of ordinary Serbs and Croats. The West is trying to create another frankenstien monster. It won't last in the long run and it will backfire on them more than they can imagine.

Croatia will need to put Krajina on the table if it wants to negotiate any type of partition in Bosnia. Otherwise Serbians have no incentive to help Croatians as I believe the original Bosnian negotiations involved Krajina.

My dear Balkan friends. Where were these negotiators when Jugoslavia was begining to fall apart in 1989? That is when Bosna died! Trying to ride a dead horse is something the socialist EC, especially Germans are masters at. They will have to re-draw borders again... or its another war!

Vladimir, have you been to the Potocari cemetary? Have you paid your respects to the victims of the Srebrenica Genocide? Because that genocide is also part of what Bosnian Serbs did in Bosnia and Herzegovina. Have you visited Banja Luka and seen the rebuilding of the Ferhadija mosque which the Bosnian Serbs destroyed? Please do not talk to me about the clean streets and forget to mention the killing and raping fields.

Why is it that whenever it comes to debate the Serb supporters bring up war and aggression as their problem solving solution, then demonize their opposition? The fact that Bos Serbs killed their neighbors in an orchestrated pre-emptive attack because they have no patience to walk the democratic path suggests their credibility as trustworthy community spokespersons is sorely tested. A path that will never be trodden if they continue to debate politics based upon religion and not citizenship. The islamic jihad nonsense is really a fear tactic that is as transparent as it is wrong. Time for openness not bully boy stand over threats.

Never say toooo late in the Balkans.

The Serbs are in a much different position today, then in other times in history.
RS ask for what is yours-

PRN

You don't get territory base on how big the populaiton is. Serbs were in control of over 50 perecent of the territory in Bosnia but had to settle for less. Muslims lived mainly in cities and Serbs on the countryside.
Get your facts strait next time.

"Regarding the number and composition of the population of Bosnia and Herzegovina in 2005, the most current is the assessment which cites 4,025,476 million inhabitants, as per ethnicity, including 48% Bosniaks (Muslim), 14.3% Croats, 37% Serbs and 0.6% others."

There you have it. Christian majority!

As a non-Serb from Western Europe I really don't understand why Kosovo should be able to leave Serbia while RS has to stay in Bosnia?

I think it is time for all sides to be honest? Do you want to say in Bosnia:

Serbs: no!
Croatians: no!
Muslims: well, yes.

OK, so split Bosnia if that his the best. But only a mutual agreed deal is allowed. Just like in the case of Bosnia!

Or does the UN/EU want to stay in Bosnia for 15 more years?

Be honest: Bosnia is an artificial state nobody reall wants!

""""Kosovo is not a much different story. Serbs were a majority before WW2. However, Tito did not allow Serbs to return to Kosovo after the war ended and due to high birthrates,
and latere on an influx of Albanians from Albania, you became a majority."""""


dear Mike C, if u continue watching documentaries shot by Milosevic or his friends, than ur story is true!!!

According to world history, albanians (at that time illyrians) were in the Ballkans at least 1600 years before slavic tribes even came there. And please dont tell me that illyrians were the ancesters of slavs.
so how can serbs have been majority, when they came 1600 years later???
when Rome invaded the Ballkans fought against illyrians, not against slavs, cos they were not there YET! i suggest u check your history better!

Here is the deal, if I were Dodik, I would never negotiate with the U.S and EU without a Russian counterpart!Sergey Lavrov the least needs to be in the negotiation, though I would rather have Putin! I used help refugees from Bosnia during the war(the majority Muslims), I learned a lot from those refugees and I understood why Croatians and Serbs doesn't want anything to do with Bosniaks.

Vladimir perhaps if you had time to talk to some of these scary muslims or pretty girls dressed in horrible muslim clothes, then you may have discovered that the so called Turkish flags were flags for Ramazan, sort of like saying what the hell are all these fat old guys doing in red suits around 25th December. As for the RS being a nice place to visit, my friend it is a haunted blood stained place and will remain so until some sort of penance is made for the lives of friends, neighbors, colleagues, strangers methodically and shamefully wiped away. Jesus wept.

"Croatia succeeds from the union" Lincoln to address the nation tonight..

This is the ultimate peace, otherwise expect war, where Serbs (the culprits of all war in the 1990s) will lose the most this time.

(PRN, 9 October 2009 14:57)

This is news to me! I never knew that SERBIA wanted to seceede from Yugoslavia... I always thought that it was the Western backed seperatists in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia that started the break up...

Also my friend, if we use your 'stats' and say that Serbs made up 32% of the pop in Bosnia, how exactly did they LOSE if they now control 50% of the territory?

Simply put, Serbia should get Krajina and RS in Bosnia. Croatia should have part of Bosnia and Muslims the remainder. However... outside countries have other interests in each and are contributing to all the problems and to some extent are the real problem.

BlagoZadro,

"Do our young have to suffer another generation because Sarajevo wants to destroy christianity for good."

So now we are Christians together? How about the 250,000 "Christians" you evicted from Croatia?

Serbs will never fight your battle. Croats just want to take advantage of RS and "see what happens". Then if Serbs get what they want then they will follow! I thought Croats were courageous? Seek independence on your own! Don't use Serbs AGIAN.

I was in Bosnia two weeks ago, and the Republika Srpska is wonderful. The streets are clean and the police and public are polite. It reminded me of Northern Arizona quite a bit.

In the Federation, however, I was amazed at all the Turkish flags, the bearded men, and all the pretty girls wearing the hideous Islamic garb. I even saw very scary Taliban looking men and women in downtown Sarajevo. It's easy for these Western diplomats to say Serbs and Croats should live in a Muslim dominated state, but would these same Westerners do the same? Of course not. If the Bosnian federation is so wonderful, the EU would let Turkey join. Westerners don't like Muslim dominated governments any more than Serbs or Croats do, and they would have done exactly the same as Bosnian Christians did in the last war, but they are too cynical to admit it. And now they want the Serbs and Croats to pay the price for that cynicism. The day the EU lets Turkey join is the day Westerners have the right to tell Serbs to centeralize their government.

Let's get one thing straight: no one can force the Bosnian Serbs to love Bosnia but no one can give the Bosnian Serbs Bosnian land without the permission of all the Bosnian people. The Bosnian people (all three ethnic/religious groups) own the sovereign territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina and any decision regarding that land needs to be agreed upon by all three peoples in a democratic manner. The Bosnian Serbs can not unilaterally decide what is their land and what is the Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats land especially after the ethnic cleansing and genocide that they committed a decade ago. BiH belongs to all of its citizens and it is the entire citizenry of the country that gets to make decisions regarding their country. If it is stated that it is permissible to use ethnic cleansing and genocide to achieve political objectives then all peoples all over the world all allowed to use those methods. This of course is not permissible in today's world and hence the only solution for Bosnia and Herzegovina is to create a state in which all people can live in peace and prosperity and have their individual as well as ethnic/religious rights respected.

I just wanted to add that B92 did not published my last comment and there was a link that can show to MikeC the truth about expelling albanians from Toplica and Kosanica during 1878!
At least I would like to ask B92 to send the link to MikeC directly to his e-mail.
Thanks

Be honest: Bosnia is an artificial state nobody reall wants!
(Ron,

Wow,so as an unbias "westener" you want to use what other people think as a gauge to guide wich countries are "wanted"?

you are twisted man.

in that way the ammount of genocides that would happen its not even be a joke.
You are wishing a curse, a curse that would effect you and i and all greavly.

Peace,

So you predict calamity for the Serbs if they don’t fall into line. How is that going to happen? Are Bosniaks are going to take up arms and force the Serbs to relinquish their lands or do you think that NATO is going to bomb Serbia into submission. This is not 1999 and the US does not wish to have another battle ground in Europe, they have enough with their current little sink holes, and because there are other big time players that will get involved this time.

All the Serbs need is patience and everything will come to them in an orderly manner. The first group to take up arms will be declared an aggressor by the international community and nothing will be achieved and they will lose everything. The EU is getting a little tired of Haris Silajdžić’s rants and veiled threats against the Serbs and he has been told accordingly.

"Republika Srpska had conquered 70 percent of Bosnia via massive military superiority."
Dim Tuc

You make it sound like Serbs never lived in Bosnia and came from Serbia and conquered 70 Ppercent of that territory.
Serbs were already living in these areas. They were mainly farmers and the territory DID belong to them and had previously been owned by their grandfathers and not by muslims who came to the country 400 years before that.

Kosovo is not a much different story. Serbs were a majority before WW2. However, Tito did not allow Serbs to return to Kosovo after the war ended and due to high birthrates,
and latere on an influx of Albanians from Albania, you became a majority. Just look at how many children an Albanian couple has. 8-12 is not unusual. How can you not become a majority?
You mean if arabs become a majority in south of Germany they would have a right to demand independence? The fact is that Albanians don't have any real proof of being in Kosovo before the Turks came.
No proof what so ever!

Besides if you and other Albanians are going to continue to blame Serbs for the wars in the 90s I suggest you take a look at this documentary and get your facts straight.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5860186121153047571&hl=en#

To MikeC,

Dear MikeC you are one the men that most probably has read only one book and only that book that makes you to belive that you are right.
I simply can not understand you how you can say that albanians do not live in Kosovo before turks, are you really in earth??? who fought against turks firstly in ballcan? answer: albanians. Skenderbeg simply kept his kingdom for more than 25 years, protecting europe from turk invasion and thats why Skenderbeg's statute you will find in many cities through europe (Rome, Vienna etc...). Also before the slavs cooming to ballcan peninsula were ancestors of albanians living in all that area so called Illyrians => Arberians=> Albanians. For this all there are facts, for example there are living hal a million albanians in south Italy (they call themselvs Arberesh) who left Albania after Skenderbeg died and turks invaded Albania. BTW do not try to push the idea that in Kosovo before WW2 was no albanians living there, they did not fall there from sky, simply they lived there for millenias.
I would rather ask you to check the documents what has happen in 1878 to more than 300000 albanians of Toplica and Kosanica that has been pulled out of their homes and lands by serbian force, an international agreement was made on that time in Budapest to return these people at their homes and never has happen.

Amazing aren’t they? I mean these Croats. While they are being kicked around all Christians should band together but when they are doing the kicking its “God and Croatians”. Croats are a minority in BiH and by 2014 they will not be even that and so now they are pleading with Serbs to protect them and bring them under the Republika Srpska umbrella.

Surely the powerful and mighty Croatia, you know the economic power house which existed in the Croatians minds while they were part of the old Yugoslavia, can protect its own people.

However, what about the Serbs which they kicked out of Croatia? Well we won’t talk about that one because deep down we hate those Serbs and we wish to erect a statue to Ante Pavelic, but they have to help us in BiH. Amazing aren’t they?

The question was asked why can’t BiH be divided and the parts go their separate ways. It’s not because the Muslims would have a non-viable state. You already have two Albania and Kosovo. It’s because the EU would have to fund its survival, pay for police, education, roads etc. for ever. The reason why this troupe from the EU and US is in Bosnia at the moment is to try last minute patch up deals. The money is running out and the spending has not revived most world economies and time is very short. I hate to say this but as it stands the EU and US could very easily go into depression.

The EU’s plan is to have all these new countries work as before where Serbia provides the raw materials, provide subsidies in the form of energy, transport tax concessions and takes the heavy loads – I think you get the idea by now. The Slovenes and Croats would then process the raw materials, pay minimum to Serbia’s producers and keep the profits. Naturally, the rest of would also get some crumbs off the table.

Why do you think Slovenia and Croatia constantly talk about signing trade agreements with Serbia? They want the old deals back. Slovenia is existing because the EU is keeping it a float through the Austrians. The EU wants to show those recalcitrant Serbs what a paradise exists on their doorstep and they will have the same only if they did what they are told. If you want to see the real picture of what will happen just look at the other former eastern block countries next to Serbia. which are

Wow,so as an unbias "westener" you want to use what other people think as a gauge to guide wich countries are "wanted"?

(troika melb, 9 October 2009 19:06)

Please don't get me wrong. We really do not need new states (so no Kosovo also!).

But the Croats and Serbs I speak with - I travel a lot i Eastern Europe - don't feel Bosnian but Croat or Serb!

If Bosnia really is a state all three groups liked, then why Croats are supporting Croation football team and Muslims the Turkish (!) football team?

And after 'Kosovo' does the West have the moral right to force Serbs AND CROATS to stay in Bosnia?

I can't believe people trace back their DNA to 1600 years ago. There is no pure race. Albanians are Illyrians? Serbs from today are not "the same" as Serbs of 1000 years ago. Greeks don't have the same race as they did a thousand years ETC.... Genetics and evolution change ethnicities through war and migration/immigration. That is why its silly to hear Albanians compare themselves to peoples from 1600 years ago. What happened to that Arian race? Maybe Albanians want to bring back the Illyrian race as well? Good luck trcing your DNA from 1600 years ago!

Centurione Massimo and Ballkan

MikeC is talking about Albanians being a minority in Kosovo before WWII, he didnt say that they weren't present in Balkan area. please read people's post carefully before responding

BalkanJustice

The Serbs do not need Bosniak or Croat permission to leave that failed State. Read the Dayton Agreement.

The reason why the Serbs have not yet left Bosnia is because the EU is giving it pots of money, but that’s running out and the Serbs are positioning themselves for an exit from Bosnia. The EU constantly threatens no recognition, but it only needs one country to recognise it, but I have heard that several others will too.

I don't understand what it takes to convince people that Bosnia does not work. You don't force two people that have a bad marriage to stay together so why hang on to a fairytale of happiness and brotherly love. Had the Bosniaks remained neutral in Bosnia things would not have changed, but you took up arms against the Serbs and it’s finished – what part of this statement don’t you understand. Bosniaks and Croats do not own the whole of Bosnia, it’s not their personal fiefdom.

If you want to blame someone go to Alia Izetbegovic’s grave and blame him!

"Balkan Justice"
may I ask you Haqve you EVER been
in Jasenovac in your life?
To see what your grandfathers did
to their neighbours 1941.

That was the REAL genocide.

(Ballkan, 10 October 2009 13:15)
There was no Serbian army in Kosmet in 1878-1912! That was period of ottoman and albanian ethnic cleansing of serbs in Kosmet. Not just serbians but also non-Serbs testify that. Dont try to twist facts!