"Aid deal to be revealed during Medvedev visit"

Wow, the Albanians have come out in force worried about how Serbia is going to get exploited by Russia. I am really touched. You guys really do care.

Then again, could it be that you are more worried about Serbia and Russia being so close that it is making you feel unsafe? Serbia is getting the backing of someone who is powerful, has powerful friends and is willing to throw their support in any way Serbia needs it, while your mates are losing their grip on almost everything.
Afghanistan and Iraq have cost your friends dearly of late.

Seriously, why do you care what happens between Serbia and Russia?

Russia is becoming fully invested in the Balkans. From the cost line, to Serbian Bosnia, to central Serbia.
You are seeing something great in the works.
Via Serbia!

bganon:

It's clear you are just a anti-Russian and a "western" lover. You should be ashamed with comments like that - because if I recall it was america who killed serbs based on pure lies and propaganda! It's not Russia but america who is the occupier of Kosmet.

Watch out for the eventual sale of EPS.
Nothing is given away for free. From a Russian standpoint this is business and geo-political.

I hope for Serbia's sake that this isnt buy now pay later. This is a policy used by some of our politicians today and in the past.

And to those servile enough to want Serbia to become a Russian colony - Serbia has no wish to lose its country or identity thank you very much.

PRN, don´t be naive!

...from the albanian point of view, this is all but music for albanian ears, you should know that, my dear.

not only China, now also Russia talks about Serbia as a strategic partner, while the US or how some other smart albanian kid once named it, "the one and only global super-power" are quietly fading away and you don´t really have alternatives in overseas, and certainly not in Europe.

so, either you are "bluffing", or you just do not know what you´re talking about.

the motives for the albanian devaluating of serbo-russian relations are perfectly understandable from a psychological point of view.

..not that it makes a difference in reality, ...but it is amusing to read these desperate attempts.

How reasonable is it to borrow money and funnel it directly into budget spending? The Government may hope it will buy social peace, but not stability!
Who will repay this debt?

Good news as always from our friend Russia, keep it up and move away from €USSR & USA.

As for "satellite state" they could turn us into a russian oblast for all i care(why not?), that will at least prevent western puppet regimes and more western land grabbing of our land.

I hope this goes at least some of the way for making up the giving away of NIS.

Serbia is becoming an unmasked satellite of Moscow.

There will be plenty of strings attached, and privatisation of Serbian companies will be controlled directly or indirectly by Putin.

Serbia's Foreign policy from now on will be tied with Russian one, and planned by Sergei Lavrov, while little Jeremic will act as his speaker.

A union with Russia may not be too distant.

This news is nice music for Albanian ears.

The ones who owe NIS and Serbia are the bombers of Pancevo, the plain destroyers. PERIOD.

Anyone talking about market prices etc of NIS is an hypocrite.

Ratko why would you call somebody who is pro-Serbia anti Russian?

I say to you that if you prefer Russia to Serbia then move to Moscow.

My interest (and that of the Serbian people) is that Serbia isn't ripped off by other countries.

If you put the Russian interest above the Serbian one that is your choice. But you must at least recognise that this is about business and interests, not friendship, - that the wet between the ears like to think.

bganon

Dear brother ! Don’t worry when I am as fuddle drunk as you possibly are I too make silly statements and feel depressed. If I were you I would worry about the reason why Tadich &Co do not stick at Russia. Why are they so rare guests here ? What you cannot doubt is that we feel very warm feelings and compassion for the Serbs. Also we need friends for this is the real thing we are lacking. Be sure we don’t care of any colonies. Neither do we inhabit our own soil.

( ! )

Oh just see. A Serb doesn't want that his country becomes a Russian colony where Russian oligarchs rape the last bit economic life out this country and Peggy marks him as a "traitor" who should leave his country if he doesn't it like it is.

That kind of situation we had in the 90s all over Serbia and it still lasts up today. In their eyes, the society is made up by "loyalists" and "traitors". Most pathetic is the fact that those right-wing elements live in Western country.

@ Peggy

Since you want that people who doesn't agree to your point ov view, I would like to know from which Western country you are most certainly posting. UK? US?? I'm sure it is not your "paradise" Russia.

@bganon

Even when I don't agree with your points all the time, I still acknoledge that you have spine.

Cheers (from a Western country in which I live proudly)

I was reading this article and a couple of other related ones regarding IMF and I have to say some of the reactions against IMF especially, are almost comical if they weren't so sad.

Simply put, IMF is in the picture because consecutive Serbian governments did not get their act together when it came to money management. Period. Don't blame the IMF for your government's financial ineptitude.

Of course IMF-suggested measures will hurt. As countries and consumers all across the world have found out...again...getting out of debt always does.

I'm a Russian skeptic too... as far as I see it:

- China is the ultimate pragmatist. No principals whatsoever...just make money.
- U.S. is a mix of pragmatism and idealism. They stink at execution of plans though.
- Russia only sees the world in terms of domination and control.

Still, as far as taking money from Russia...if it is used to invest in areas that interest Serbia, sure why not? If it's used to "support the budget"... then it's basically "loan me more money to mismanage." You need the IMF for that second part.

Dear "anti-Albanian on autopilot" Peggy
---------------------------

I'm willing to bet that the more pragmatic Albanians and Serbs know that it is far more convenient to do business with the neighbors than with countries thousands of miles away. As Greece and Italy found out the hard way in the 90-s, neighbors in crisis can cause problems at home too. Liking each other is normally a good thing, but not an absolute necessity to move forward.

And to those servile enough to want Serbia to become a Russian colony - Serbia has no wish to lose its country or identity thank you very much.
(bganon, 6 October 2009 15:40)

Then I suggest you move to Kosovo where you will be an American colony.

Thank God there aren't too many Serbs who think like you do. What makes you think that Serbia will become a Russian colony?
If you bow to America that is exactly what you will become. I cannot understand you you either cannot see that or would wish it.

You are welcome to live in an American colony any time you wish. I'm sure you have at some time and know how that works.

The minister said that the Russian president’s visit would have “an exceptionally important economic segment, as Russia is a big investor in Serbia. Sure how much will it cost Serbia this time how much is Serbia willing to pay for the “an exceptionally important economic segment, Where do the Serbs get their impressive negotiators if I may say so. Is Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić also the negotiator and trying to collect to salaries that would explain it what a hard working trooper he is. Good luck trying to stay afloat with those kind of deals from the past and into the future. Personally I think Serbs are being taken for a short ride by Russia and boozed up with cheap liqueur. Just sign on the dotted line all your nightmares will be fulfilled no no I meant all your sweet dreams. If it sounds to good to be true your instincts are 99% right.

"Thank God there aren't too many Serbs who think like you do. What makes you think that Serbia will become a Russian colony?
If you bow to America that is exactly what you will become. I cannot understand you you either cannot see that or would wish it. "

Bgannon, if you are going to quote me, please quote the entire statement.

When I said thatnk God that most of Serbs don't think like you do I was not suggesting that Serbia should be a Russian colony. I was actually saying that that is not the case and most Serbs do not see it happening. I asked you why you think that Serbia would become Russian colony which means that I did not think that at all so I cannot possibly agree with it.

By not quoting the whole statement you are deliberately misrepresenting what I said in order to make it look like I was saying something I was not.

"Wow, the Albanians have come out in force worried about how Serbia is going to get exploited by Russia. I am really touched. You guys really do care. "

Oh Peggy, I need to destroy your picture but the reason why we "care" is only based on the fact that Russia always (mis-)used his position. We simply want to see how much you are willing to evaporate for a useless word. And especially, when the Russians present their bill (curiously they always keep parts of the contracts secretely...why?) then you might need all the pity for your own people.

"Then again, could it be that you are more worried about Serbia and Russia being so close that it is making you feel unsafe?"

Not at all, in the contrary, the more Russians oligarch rape your economy and take over your land, the more the West will see the necessity of an Albanian Kosovo, with NATO troops and an armed Kosovo army.

"Serbia is getting the backing of someone who is powerful, has powerful friends and is willing to throw their support in any way Serbia needs it,..."

You mean just as in Georgia where Russia wants to have their own territories? For me it appears that Russia was just waiting for the Kosovo independence so that they can exploit it for their own interests in Caucasia. But desperate people like you will use even the most euphemistic terms to neglect defeat.


"Afghanistan and Iraq have cost your friends dearly of late."

In that point you have the rare moments of being right. That is why the US and the West appreciate it in Kosovo, because they actually see that Kosovo is a safe place for them.

"Seriously, why do you care what happens between Serbia and Russia?"

Seriously, and that brings me back to the topic, why significant parts of "deals" between Serbia and Russia are top secret? Something to hide? A good offer will be exposed and shown to the people like "look, the Russians are our friends". But Moscow doesn't want it. Do we have any new information about the NIS "deal".

Ment: That is what I was saying to do business locally. You don't have the huge transport costs and fuel surcharges added to your products warehousing multi handling fees on and on. Then the products are more reasonably priced to the local consumers who will buy it. That is why Serbia has a trade surplus with its neighboring country's only witch are of the Central European trade org. To the EU you have so many bureaucratic regulations that add to the price of the products just another way to keep products out. It gives jobs only to the unprofitable tax drain bureaucrats to keep them employed. The EU is less about trade now more of building the European Empire again and the central control of every thing. The only thing what Emperor demagog will take the helm that Europe gets saddled with always. It will be no different now history has proven it over and over. Yore right a lot of Serbs have their autopilot set permanently only to the Kremlin. It is good for the Russians thats why they get good cheap deals from the Serbs but not good business or deals or sense for the Serbs and Serbia.

I'm willing to bet that the more pragmatic Albanians and Serbs know that it is far more convenient to do business with the neighbors than with countries thousands of miles away. As Greece and Italy found out the hard way in the 90-s, neighbors in crisis can cause problems at home too. Liking each other is normally a good thing, but not an absolute necessity to move forward.
(Ment, 6 October 2009 18:16)

Sure Ment, so then tell us why is Camp Bondsteel there? Whose is that and how many miles away are the people to put it there?

I think you should take your own advice instead of dispensing it to us.

So my dear anti Serb take your own advice.

With friends like these, who needs enemies? Russia takes Serbia to the cleaners by pitchin on best companies like NIS far below capitalised value. You don't have to comment on Abkhazia and South Ossetia and the seriousness on Russias Kosovo-stance

If you put the Russian interest above the Serbian one that is your choice. But you must at least recognise that this is about business and interests, not friendship, - that the wet between the ears like to think.
(bganon, 6 October 2009 20:07)

Bganon my capitalist friend, of course it's about business, nothing is free these days but you rather owe money to Russia than US/EU.
Russia is becoming stronger by the day, they have all the resources needed to keep EU alive, soon enough EU will be begging for Russia's gas/oil. Russia is the future, Serbia will benefit from having Russia or China as their big brother.

Sell everything to Russia and nothing to the Americans or Europeans!

So the Russians are bigger rip-off artists than those in the West? Britain is the world's 4th most open economy, more competition=lower prices...

Not really.

I just came across this article in The Independent about how energy companies in the GB are ripping-off consumers:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-great-energy-ripoff-and-how-you-can-avoid-it-1798701.html

The fact is that private investment=profit for shareholders, not necessarily a good deal for consumers.

A lot of choice, i.e. competition is not necessarily helpful either, go ask Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes about telecoms et al.

Ever wondered why businesses offer so many options? It is not about choice but rather confusion. It is made deliberately hard to find out a) the cheapest option, b) the real conditions and extra costs. It's a swindle.

Russia money=bad, West money=good, total rubbish.

As for Russia, most of the Oligarchs have been broken a long time ago, or do we prefer the Wall Street oligarchs who have been bailed out by the tax payer because they speak better english?

...do you really, in all seriousness believe that the only reason for keeping some things secret is that they are negative for Serbia?
(Jovan, 7 October 2009 00:15)

Defnitely! Ever since the NIS "deal" were Serbia was allowed to receive only 400 Mio for a company which was worth 2-3bn even the dumbest knew that this was a bad deal. When Serbia would have got the amount which this company would be worth it would have now the 1bn which they have to beg from the Russians now. What a coincidence, seriously. The next generation who will have to pay back this bill to the Russian Oligarchy so that they can build more Yachts and buy Champagne will be very "thankful" to you.

Cheers

dear Berkeley:

it´s astonishing, actually.

I got the impression that you didn´t get what I wanted to say.

let´s take your "example":

the NIS-deal, how do you know that the real price for that "bargain" ( or you could also call it a "purchase" - it only depends on your personal standpoint ) was 400 b?

-it´s just the same phenomenon like with the other Albanian a few days ago, who claimed to have superior knowledge, but didn´t want to tell us about it -

how do you know what was/is the real deal ( and I am not talking about Evander Holyfield here ) between Serbia and Russia?

do you really, and I must ask you this once again, do you REALLY in all seriousness believe that Serbia would sell her assets that cheap?

I mean, Serbia and Russia are brotherly nations,yes, but we do not have presents to make to them, since we are partners, in regard of international relations.

so, if you believe that, I think you can´t be helped.

this is of course not meant as an offense.

there´s simply no other way to put it, since I think that there are things that are not made public, and to be honest, I can live quite good with that.

as for this "financial aid" you are speaking/writing of, ...do you really believe that, all of a sudden, the Russians are donating these amounts of money to Serbia?

oh, Berkeley, come on, please!

it´s more kinda like an amusement for me to read all those albanian comments who are so naive in their impetus to provoke the Serbs, while the only thing they display here is, that they do not read between the lines, they don´t get the "sub-text".

and it seems like you´re also one of those, who are being duped.

wake up, Berkeley, wake up.

really, I am honest with you, I am really sorry for those honest and decent K-albanians who do not burn down churches and monasteries, those who only want to secure a good life for their families, since THEY are the real victims of the US-american policy in the balkans.

they will suffer from the hands of their very own K-albanians, ...those who are animals, and do not even respect the gravestones of the dead...

because, one thing should be clear even for you:

Serbia will prevail. it´s only a question of time.

and the K-albanians have once again put their hopes on the wrong horse.

but as long as our dear k-albanian friends do worry about Serbia being abused by Russia, or kids like "Roberto" try to sell us the story of serbian mothers who would sell their daughters to him ( I heard the opposite, about albanian mothers, from a KFOR-guy who was there for over 18 months, and that the Albanians are offering young girls to western officials in order to get them "on board" )

...I think I can lay back and enjoy this kind of entertainment here! :)

My interest (and that of the Serbian people) is that Serbia isn't ripped off by other countries.

If you put the Russian interest above the Serbian one that is your choice. But you must at least recognise that this is about business and interests, not friendship, - that the wet between the ears like to think.
(bganon, 6 October 2009 20:07)

Everything is about business, I grant you that, but who would you rather do business with?
Would you rather open your country to the US elites who are going to take whatever they want in order to maintain good relations with you or would you rather do business with Russia without who you would've already lost Kosovo?

Why do you think that doing business with Russia is being exploited but doing business with US is not?

Perhaps it is you who is a bit wet behind the ears if you think that doing business with the west is not opening yourself up to being exploited.

Peggy

Since you chose to respond, please stick to topic and don't bounce all over the place. Like Lenard and Bgannon before me I was talking about the IMF and economics, not military matters.

But since you had to bring up Bondsteel...well...I don't know why the U.S. built Bondsteel. I doubt it was over economic reasons though.

Maybe it's looking to close the expensive German and Italian bases, you know, those other "colonies", and Kosovo offered cheaper rent.
As for the hosts, military bases do tend to boost the local economy and give the folks there a sense of security.

This is my guess at least.

As for being anti-Serb... I'd say I'm not, but that's my opinion.

@berkeley:

...do you really, in all seriousness believe that the only reason for keeping some things secret is that they are negative for Serbia?

well, my dear, I think that you are not fuddle drunk or whatever you might call it - you simply cannot manage it to think neutrally.

there are many other, much more plausible reasons for confidentiality, but I´ll leave it at that, my dear...

wishful thinking is stubbornly preserved among our dear k-albanian friends.

Peggy i said Serbia has no wish to lose its country or identity thank you very much.

You said Thank God there aren't too many Serbs who think like you do.

Now occasionally I think you deliberately misunderstand me. My saying that I don't want to sell the family silver on the cheap (to any country including the US) is interpreted as a desire to live in the US.

Trust me if I wanted to do that I could. Now lets not waste each other's time on this any more.

Berkeley right, but don't forget its not rigidity / consistency of position that deserves respect. Its equally the ability to admit mistakes or alter position. Peace.

Serbia signs the below market NIS deal that gives the Russian's a strategic foothold in the economy, i.e. not all sold out to the Germans and the Brits (its globalization daaarling), Serbia gets Russian gas and is a main gas transit route with (Hungary's MOL and Austria's OMV. So both Austria and Hungary are also stupid?

Russian oligarchy, you mean the one's who have been bailed out by the Kremlin or depend upon their support (Derpaska et. Al.)?

BTW, how soon will it be before the world's 8th largest economy, California, the state of IOUs, falls off the map?

Talk about alternate realities.

Serbia is becoming an unmasked satellite of Moscow.

There will be plenty of strings attached, and privatisation of Serbian companies will be controlled directly or indirectly by Putin.

Serbia's Foreign policy from now on will be tied with Russian one, and planned by Sergei Lavrov, while little Jeremic will act as his speaker.

A union with Russia may not be too distant.

This news is nice music for Albanian ears.

The minister said that the Russian president’s visit would have “an exceptionally important economic segment, as Russia is a big investor in Serbia. Sure how much will it cost Serbia this time how much is Serbia willing to pay for the “an exceptionally important economic segment, Where do the Serbs get their impressive negotiators if I may say so. Is Foreign Minister Vuk Jeremić also the negotiator and trying to collect to salaries that would explain it what a hard working trooper he is. Good luck trying to stay afloat with those kind of deals from the past and into the future. Personally I think Serbs are being taken for a short ride by Russia and boozed up with cheap liqueur. Just sign on the dotted line all your nightmares will be fulfilled no no I meant all your sweet dreams. If it sounds to good to be true your instincts are 99% right.

With friends like these, who needs enemies? Russia takes Serbia to the cleaners by pitchin on best companies like NIS far below capitalised value. You don't have to comment on Abkhazia and South Ossetia and the seriousness on Russias Kosovo-stance

bganon:

It's clear you are just a anti-Russian and a "western" lover. You should be ashamed with comments like that - because if I recall it was america who killed serbs based on pure lies and propaganda! It's not Russia but america who is the occupier of Kosmet.

The ones who owe NIS and Serbia are the bombers of Pancevo, the plain destroyers. PERIOD.

Anyone talking about market prices etc of NIS is an hypocrite.

Good news as always from our friend Russia, keep it up and move away from €USSR & USA.

As for "satellite state" they could turn us into a russian oblast for all i care(why not?), that will at least prevent western puppet regimes and more western land grabbing of our land.

"Wow, the Albanians have come out in force worried about how Serbia is going to get exploited by Russia. I am really touched. You guys really do care. "

Oh Peggy, I need to destroy your picture but the reason why we "care" is only based on the fact that Russia always (mis-)used his position. We simply want to see how much you are willing to evaporate for a useless word. And especially, when the Russians present their bill (curiously they always keep parts of the contracts secretely...why?) then you might need all the pity for your own people.

"Then again, could it be that you are more worried about Serbia and Russia being so close that it is making you feel unsafe?"

Not at all, in the contrary, the more Russians oligarch rape your economy and take over your land, the more the West will see the necessity of an Albanian Kosovo, with NATO troops and an armed Kosovo army.

"Serbia is getting the backing of someone who is powerful, has powerful friends and is willing to throw their support in any way Serbia needs it,..."

You mean just as in Georgia where Russia wants to have their own territories? For me it appears that Russia was just waiting for the Kosovo independence so that they can exploit it for their own interests in Caucasia. But desperate people like you will use even the most euphemistic terms to neglect defeat.


"Afghanistan and Iraq have cost your friends dearly of late."

In that point you have the rare moments of being right. That is why the US and the West appreciate it in Kosovo, because they actually see that Kosovo is a safe place for them.

"Seriously, why do you care what happens between Serbia and Russia?"

Seriously, and that brings me back to the topic, why significant parts of "deals" between Serbia and Russia are top secret? Something to hide? A good offer will be exposed and shown to the people like "look, the Russians are our friends". But Moscow doesn't want it. Do we have any new information about the NIS "deal".

Russia is becoming fully invested in the Balkans. From the cost line, to Serbian Bosnia, to central Serbia.
You are seeing something great in the works.
Via Serbia!

Ratko why would you call somebody who is pro-Serbia anti Russian?

I say to you that if you prefer Russia to Serbia then move to Moscow.

My interest (and that of the Serbian people) is that Serbia isn't ripped off by other countries.

If you put the Russian interest above the Serbian one that is your choice. But you must at least recognise that this is about business and interests, not friendship, - that the wet between the ears like to think.

And to those servile enough to want Serbia to become a Russian colony - Serbia has no wish to lose its country or identity thank you very much.
(bganon, 6 October 2009 15:40)

Then I suggest you move to Kosovo where you will be an American colony.

Thank God there aren't too many Serbs who think like you do. What makes you think that Serbia will become a Russian colony?
If you bow to America that is exactly what you will become. I cannot understand you you either cannot see that or would wish it.

You are welcome to live in an American colony any time you wish. I'm sure you have at some time and know how that works.

Watch out for the eventual sale of EPS.
Nothing is given away for free. From a Russian standpoint this is business and geo-political.

I hope for Serbia's sake that this isnt buy now pay later. This is a policy used by some of our politicians today and in the past.

And to those servile enough to want Serbia to become a Russian colony - Serbia has no wish to lose its country or identity thank you very much.

I'm willing to bet that the more pragmatic Albanians and Serbs know that it is far more convenient to do business with the neighbors than with countries thousands of miles away. As Greece and Italy found out the hard way in the 90-s, neighbors in crisis can cause problems at home too. Liking each other is normally a good thing, but not an absolute necessity to move forward.
(Ment, 6 October 2009 18:16)

Sure Ment, so then tell us why is Camp Bondsteel there? Whose is that and how many miles away are the people to put it there?

I think you should take your own advice instead of dispensing it to us.

So my dear anti Serb take your own advice.

Wow, the Albanians have come out in force worried about how Serbia is going to get exploited by Russia. I am really touched. You guys really do care.

Then again, could it be that you are more worried about Serbia and Russia being so close that it is making you feel unsafe? Serbia is getting the backing of someone who is powerful, has powerful friends and is willing to throw their support in any way Serbia needs it, while your mates are losing their grip on almost everything.
Afghanistan and Iraq have cost your friends dearly of late.

Seriously, why do you care what happens between Serbia and Russia?

I was reading this article and a couple of other related ones regarding IMF and I have to say some of the reactions against IMF especially, are almost comical if they weren't so sad.

Simply put, IMF is in the picture because consecutive Serbian governments did not get their act together when it came to money management. Period. Don't blame the IMF for your government's financial ineptitude.

Of course IMF-suggested measures will hurt. As countries and consumers all across the world have found out...again...getting out of debt always does.

I'm a Russian skeptic too... as far as I see it:

- China is the ultimate pragmatist. No principals whatsoever...just make money.
- U.S. is a mix of pragmatism and idealism. They stink at execution of plans though.
- Russia only sees the world in terms of domination and control.

Still, as far as taking money from Russia...if it is used to invest in areas that interest Serbia, sure why not? If it's used to "support the budget"... then it's basically "loan me more money to mismanage." You need the IMF for that second part.

Dear "anti-Albanian on autopilot" Peggy
---------------------------

I'm willing to bet that the more pragmatic Albanians and Serbs know that it is far more convenient to do business with the neighbors than with countries thousands of miles away. As Greece and Italy found out the hard way in the 90-s, neighbors in crisis can cause problems at home too. Liking each other is normally a good thing, but not an absolute necessity to move forward.

Oh just see. A Serb doesn't want that his country becomes a Russian colony where Russian oligarchs rape the last bit economic life out this country and Peggy marks him as a "traitor" who should leave his country if he doesn't it like it is.

That kind of situation we had in the 90s all over Serbia and it still lasts up today. In their eyes, the society is made up by "loyalists" and "traitors". Most pathetic is the fact that those right-wing elements live in Western country.

@ Peggy

Since you want that people who doesn't agree to your point ov view, I would like to know from which Western country you are most certainly posting. UK? US?? I'm sure it is not your "paradise" Russia.

@bganon

Even when I don't agree with your points all the time, I still acknoledge that you have spine.

Cheers (from a Western country in which I live proudly)

I hope this goes at least some of the way for making up the giving away of NIS.

Ment: That is what I was saying to do business locally. You don't have the huge transport costs and fuel surcharges added to your products warehousing multi handling fees on and on. Then the products are more reasonably priced to the local consumers who will buy it. That is why Serbia has a trade surplus with its neighboring country's only witch are of the Central European trade org. To the EU you have so many bureaucratic regulations that add to the price of the products just another way to keep products out. It gives jobs only to the unprofitable tax drain bureaucrats to keep them employed. The EU is less about trade now more of building the European Empire again and the central control of every thing. The only thing what Emperor demagog will take the helm that Europe gets saddled with always. It will be no different now history has proven it over and over. Yore right a lot of Serbs have their autopilot set permanently only to the Kremlin. It is good for the Russians thats why they get good cheap deals from the Serbs but not good business or deals or sense for the Serbs and Serbia.

...do you really, in all seriousness believe that the only reason for keeping some things secret is that they are negative for Serbia?
(Jovan, 7 October 2009 00:15)

Defnitely! Ever since the NIS "deal" were Serbia was allowed to receive only 400 Mio for a company which was worth 2-3bn even the dumbest knew that this was a bad deal. When Serbia would have got the amount which this company would be worth it would have now the 1bn which they have to beg from the Russians now. What a coincidence, seriously. The next generation who will have to pay back this bill to the Russian Oligarchy so that they can build more Yachts and buy Champagne will be very "thankful" to you.

Cheers

bganon

Dear brother ! Don’t worry when I am as fuddle drunk as you possibly are I too make silly statements and feel depressed. If I were you I would worry about the reason why Tadich &Co do not stick at Russia. Why are they so rare guests here ? What you cannot doubt is that we feel very warm feelings and compassion for the Serbs. Also we need friends for this is the real thing we are lacking. Be sure we don’t care of any colonies. Neither do we inhabit our own soil.

( ! )

PRN, don´t be naive!

...from the albanian point of view, this is all but music for albanian ears, you should know that, my dear.

not only China, now also Russia talks about Serbia as a strategic partner, while the US or how some other smart albanian kid once named it, "the one and only global super-power" are quietly fading away and you don´t really have alternatives in overseas, and certainly not in Europe.

so, either you are "bluffing", or you just do not know what you´re talking about.

the motives for the albanian devaluating of serbo-russian relations are perfectly understandable from a psychological point of view.

..not that it makes a difference in reality, ...but it is amusing to read these desperate attempts.

If you put the Russian interest above the Serbian one that is your choice. But you must at least recognise that this is about business and interests, not friendship, - that the wet between the ears like to think.
(bganon, 6 October 2009 20:07)

Bganon my capitalist friend, of course it's about business, nothing is free these days but you rather owe money to Russia than US/EU.
Russia is becoming stronger by the day, they have all the resources needed to keep EU alive, soon enough EU will be begging for Russia's gas/oil. Russia is the future, Serbia will benefit from having Russia or China as their big brother.

Sell everything to Russia and nothing to the Americans or Europeans!

My interest (and that of the Serbian people) is that Serbia isn't ripped off by other countries.

If you put the Russian interest above the Serbian one that is your choice. But you must at least recognise that this is about business and interests, not friendship, - that the wet between the ears like to think.
(bganon, 6 October 2009 20:07)

Everything is about business, I grant you that, but who would you rather do business with?
Would you rather open your country to the US elites who are going to take whatever they want in order to maintain good relations with you or would you rather do business with Russia without who you would've already lost Kosovo?

Why do you think that doing business with Russia is being exploited but doing business with US is not?

Perhaps it is you who is a bit wet behind the ears if you think that doing business with the west is not opening yourself up to being exploited.

How reasonable is it to borrow money and funnel it directly into budget spending? The Government may hope it will buy social peace, but not stability!
Who will repay this debt?

Peggy

Since you chose to respond, please stick to topic and don't bounce all over the place. Like Lenard and Bgannon before me I was talking about the IMF and economics, not military matters.

But since you had to bring up Bondsteel...well...I don't know why the U.S. built Bondsteel. I doubt it was over economic reasons though.

Maybe it's looking to close the expensive German and Italian bases, you know, those other "colonies", and Kosovo offered cheaper rent.
As for the hosts, military bases do tend to boost the local economy and give the folks there a sense of security.

This is my guess at least.

As for being anti-Serb... I'd say I'm not, but that's my opinion.

So the Russians are bigger rip-off artists than those in the West? Britain is the world's 4th most open economy, more competition=lower prices...

Not really.

I just came across this article in The Independent about how energy companies in the GB are ripping-off consumers:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/the-great-energy-ripoff-and-how-you-can-avoid-it-1798701.html

The fact is that private investment=profit for shareholders, not necessarily a good deal for consumers.

A lot of choice, i.e. competition is not necessarily helpful either, go ask Competition Commissioner Neelie Kroes about telecoms et al.

Ever wondered why businesses offer so many options? It is not about choice but rather confusion. It is made deliberately hard to find out a) the cheapest option, b) the real conditions and extra costs. It's a swindle.

Russia money=bad, West money=good, total rubbish.

As for Russia, most of the Oligarchs have been broken a long time ago, or do we prefer the Wall Street oligarchs who have been bailed out by the tax payer because they speak better english?

Peggy i said Serbia has no wish to lose its country or identity thank you very much.

You said Thank God there aren't too many Serbs who think like you do.

Now occasionally I think you deliberately misunderstand me. My saying that I don't want to sell the family silver on the cheap (to any country including the US) is interpreted as a desire to live in the US.

Trust me if I wanted to do that I could. Now lets not waste each other's time on this any more.

Berkeley right, but don't forget its not rigidity / consistency of position that deserves respect. Its equally the ability to admit mistakes or alter position. Peace.

"Thank God there aren't too many Serbs who think like you do. What makes you think that Serbia will become a Russian colony?
If you bow to America that is exactly what you will become. I cannot understand you you either cannot see that or would wish it. "

Bgannon, if you are going to quote me, please quote the entire statement.

When I said thatnk God that most of Serbs don't think like you do I was not suggesting that Serbia should be a Russian colony. I was actually saying that that is not the case and most Serbs do not see it happening. I asked you why you think that Serbia would become Russian colony which means that I did not think that at all so I cannot possibly agree with it.

By not quoting the whole statement you are deliberately misrepresenting what I said in order to make it look like I was saying something I was not.

@berkeley:

...do you really, in all seriousness believe that the only reason for keeping some things secret is that they are negative for Serbia?

well, my dear, I think that you are not fuddle drunk or whatever you might call it - you simply cannot manage it to think neutrally.

there are many other, much more plausible reasons for confidentiality, but I´ll leave it at that, my dear...

wishful thinking is stubbornly preserved among our dear k-albanian friends.

dear Berkeley:

it´s astonishing, actually.

I got the impression that you didn´t get what I wanted to say.

let´s take your "example":

the NIS-deal, how do you know that the real price for that "bargain" ( or you could also call it a "purchase" - it only depends on your personal standpoint ) was 400 b?

-it´s just the same phenomenon like with the other Albanian a few days ago, who claimed to have superior knowledge, but didn´t want to tell us about it -

how do you know what was/is the real deal ( and I am not talking about Evander Holyfield here ) between Serbia and Russia?

do you really, and I must ask you this once again, do you REALLY in all seriousness believe that Serbia would sell her assets that cheap?

I mean, Serbia and Russia are brotherly nations,yes, but we do not have presents to make to them, since we are partners, in regard of international relations.

so, if you believe that, I think you can´t be helped.

this is of course not meant as an offense.

there´s simply no other way to put it, since I think that there are things that are not made public, and to be honest, I can live quite good with that.

as for this "financial aid" you are speaking/writing of, ...do you really believe that, all of a sudden, the Russians are donating these amounts of money to Serbia?

oh, Berkeley, come on, please!

it´s more kinda like an amusement for me to read all those albanian comments who are so naive in their impetus to provoke the Serbs, while the only thing they display here is, that they do not read between the lines, they don´t get the "sub-text".

and it seems like you´re also one of those, who are being duped.

wake up, Berkeley, wake up.

really, I am honest with you, I am really sorry for those honest and decent K-albanians who do not burn down churches and monasteries, those who only want to secure a good life for their families, since THEY are the real victims of the US-american policy in the balkans.

they will suffer from the hands of their very own K-albanians, ...those who are animals, and do not even respect the gravestones of the dead...

because, one thing should be clear even for you:

Serbia will prevail. it´s only a question of time.

and the K-albanians have once again put their hopes on the wrong horse.

but as long as our dear k-albanian friends do worry about Serbia being abused by Russia, or kids like "Roberto" try to sell us the story of serbian mothers who would sell their daughters to him ( I heard the opposite, about albanian mothers, from a KFOR-guy who was there for over 18 months, and that the Albanians are offering young girls to western officials in order to get them "on board" )

...I think I can lay back and enjoy this kind of entertainment here! :)

Serbia signs the below market NIS deal that gives the Russian's a strategic foothold in the economy, i.e. not all sold out to the Germans and the Brits (its globalization daaarling), Serbia gets Russian gas and is a main gas transit route with (Hungary's MOL and Austria's OMV. So both Austria and Hungary are also stupid?

Russian oligarchy, you mean the one's who have been bailed out by the Kremlin or depend upon their support (Derpaska et. Al.)?

BTW, how soon will it be before the world's 8th largest economy, California, the state of IOUs, falls off the map?

Talk about alternate realities.