22

Monday, 05.10.2009.

11:27

750,000 workers on strike in Romania

Some 750,000 health, education, public administration and police employees have started a general strike in Romania today.

Izvor: Beta

750,000 workers on strike in Romania IMAGE SOURCE
IMAGE DESCRIPTION

22 Komentari

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glenn möllergren

pre 14 godina

1. EU won't turn into a "socialist" super-state. A super-state indeed, it's underway - but a market economy one. It's constitutional and it's the very reason why the EU exists at all.
2. Yeah, "westeners" seem to critisize the lack of tolerance towards minorities in the East, but get nervous when things happen in their own countries. But you see, it's not ALL westeners who are like this. Some of us are just tolerant to others, even to EU-clining, market-economy-kissing, trade union-hater easteners. Others are intolerant to everyone. A shame to be so full of hatred.
3. Novi S and Timisora. Yeah, why not compare Timisoara to Szeged? Szeged to Ljubljana? Ljubljana to Trieste? And so on? Every place has its history. It's a sign of intellectual poverty to stick to shallow empirism. Unemployment, officially, is below 4% in Timisoara. OK... Well, I have a house in a village in Transylvania. I go there several times a year, staying for months altogether. The official unemployment might be close to zero there. On the other hand, no-one has a job. 20 years ago, there were six bus lines daily taking people to and from work in neighbouring towns and villages. Now, there is one a week. And "employment" is zero.
Actually, unemployment is much higher in Sweden than in Romania, officially. Still more Romanians come here than reverse. So it really proves nothing.
A few things can be noted though: The fall of communism paved way for a dramatic increase in open poverty, trafficking, drug trade, corruption and, most of all, complete dependance on the West for all countries involved (save for Russia, Belarus and Pridnestrovie). In the more well-off contries the past 20 years also saw a sharp rise in private consumption. How much higher this rise is than it would've been with socialist rule is of course uncertain. Parts of the consumption rise, though, corresponds with a rise in state debt (=future subordination to richer states). Romania 20 years ago had a debt of zero.

IF capitalism would've delivered the goods to the ex-communist countries, we would've seen a tremendous popular support for the system. Now, on the contrary: Masses emigrate. Millions of voters don't bother to participate in the elections. Those that do, oftenly vote for politicians from the old system. And the capitalist-advocating parties count membership figures in fragments of per cents.

But for us westeners, it's great that communism came down. Now we can benefit from cheap labour. Only a few of us have bad feelings of being slave-runners when we go shopping our cheap electronics and food products.

konstantin gregovic

pre 14 godina

Its always entertaining to here from certain voices how much better off Romania is with the EU.

Its worth noting that both Belarus and Serbia are not members of the EU and they are only marginally behind in GDP Per Capita according to the IMF.

Croatia is ahead of Romania and is yet to be a member of the EU.



65 Romania 12,600
66 Bulgaria 12,322
67 Belarus 12,313
68 Mauritius 12,011
69 Grenada 11,464
70 Kazakhstan 11,434
71 Panama 11,362
72 Montenegro 11,111
73 Iran 11,052
74 Serbia 10,810

szemi

pre 14 godina

Maybe, szemy.In Serbia they don`t have even that choice. Every week at Stamora-Moravica a number of serbian citizens are seeking asylum in Romania. Wonder why.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 6 October 2009 17:21

Well I think I was not precise enough in my previous comments and thus it may have sounded as if I tried to generalize.Those beggars from Romania are mainly members of Roma community.Those who seek asylium are as well http://www.romanianewswatch.com/2007/07/roma-from-serbia-seek-asylum-in-romania.html .For them Romania is really a good trambulin from where they can freely move westwards unfortunatelly in order to beg in the streets.Before romania's accesion there were many romas coming from Transylwania seeking asylum in Hungary for the same reason.So you are right they have better prospects being an EU citizen.Unfortunatelly all this trend leads to such events which we have witnessed recantly in Belfast.Seems that westerners like to preach about lack of tolerance in Eastern Europe while they lose their temper much faster.Anyway if there is realy any difference between NS and Timisore It can rather be contributed to the fact that Serbia as opposed to Romania is heavily handicapped after the embargo and bombings and it has nothing to do with EU membership.Otherwise I do not no why my friends in BG doing the same job have deeper pockets and much better lifestyle than those in Bucarest.

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

"After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic)"

Maybe, szemy.In Serbia they don`t have even that choice. Every week at Stamora-Moravica a number of serbian citizens are seeking asylum in Romania. Wonder why.

Felix

pre 14 godina

"After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic)

(szemi, 5 October 2009 22:53)"

Szemi, I followed your links and you know what, you're right. Still no-one would take Romania out of the EU because as of today Romania is a net contributor to the EU (and with NATO troops and political support and so on and so forth). Not to mention the economic concessions that have been made to so many EU members before accession.

I'm not even sure that the majority of Romanians really insisted on being part of the EU, however in the end I don't think it's a bad idea (assuming that the EU doesn't turn into some sort of socialist super-state, which is a real danger). Anyway, if you have any complaints, better send them to France, they insisted. Our French brothers insisted on this project.

Ataman, Romania isn't a business haven either, however one thing I can tell you with no fear of being wrong: it's now a much better business environment than it used to be during socialist times. I have Customers in France, UK and home, suppliers in Germany, partners from the US and while this is no brilliant moment, I'd say we should be fine. That is, of course, assuming that the EU doesn't turn into some sort of socialist super-state, which is a real danger...

Ataman

pre 14 godina

Felix,

If you are right, that means - what a surprise - the situation in Romania is like in Hungary, where only ONE out of TEN citizens does the productive work. Why is that in Romania you know better. I can tell, that I would be happy to work for my company's (non-existing) Hungarian branch. But looking quickly at the taxation it turned out that in order to pay me 700000 Ft / month "net" the company + me would be taxed so they would have about 2000000 Ft / month expenses. This is simply outlandish compared with either Serbia or USA. So there we are: I am a quasi-tourist in Hungary.

With such policies no wonder, that only who are into "BDSM" lifestyle do start their own business here, it's really for masochists.

It's not the "laziness" as some "usual" west-European "know all better" troll writes, it's that the State does not provide an environment beneficial for small/medium business.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

Just because Romania is member of EU now this doent mean they have to enjoy same standars as the west,they were comunists for 50 years and they are used to bribes and lazyness,so they have to work in order to have the western life style.
(euroman, 6 October 2009 02:32)

An other fine citizen of Trollhätten is spoken. Your voice counts, trolls are busy.

Felix

pre 14 godina

I'm not saying the EU is good or not, it's just that this story now is nothing about the EU or not EU. The problem is that communism made these people expect guaranteed income and permanent care and directions from the all-mighty State. It's not the workers in the private sector striking, it's damn workers in the State sector. They are too many, too incompetent and inefficient and want bigger salaries which they _do_not_ deserve. If they did deserve bigger salaries they would just do something about it - in the private sector - or even start businesses themselves. But it's much easier to strike and wait for the state to sort out your own situation.

As for the syndicates and such movements, they are just big corporations looking after their own interests, very good at manipulating the masses to reach their goals.

The bottom line is: if these people don't understand that they have to start doing something (in the real economy, that is), this country is going to default. Or at least, if they choose to stay in the State sector then fine, good - your choice. But then don't complain!

Ataman

pre 14 godina

That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 21:01)

I think it is rather about lowering the taxes. For instance, the entire border region is giving job for commuters from Hungary - mostly construction workers. It's not EU what "made" it in any direct way, rather indirectly ( = people can move across the borders to find a job).

I do not know how about Romania, but in Hungary a lot of monies from EU landed up in private pockets. Barely (if anything) is being felt. But fat cats got fatter.

Imagine, how much help the transportation companies like BKV or MÁV got from EU - and how much of that did "disappear". To add to the insult, MÁV union has an excellent relationship with Orbán and goes on strike any time to create some extra political tension. At the same time they seem to steal as much as they can - and it's not even illegal because theft is done by assigning enormous bonuses. Typically a bonus or severance package is worth TWO large family homes, not one. And surprise - the one who received the enormous severance package is ... hired back a bit later. Just to being "laid off" again - with a new package.

The role of EU here is, they provide loans, programs, etc. Most of these monies are gone. And of course the ones who now play the severance or bonus game are the old comrades.

euroman

pre 14 godina

Just because Romania is member of EU now this doent mean they have to enjoy same standars as the west,they were comunists for 50 years and they are used to bribes and lazyness,so they have to work in order to have the western life style.

raso

pre 14 godina

well adrian & mircea, our propaganda-comrades & siam-twins have obviously an explenation for everything ...

the eu, as main creator of the problem, now is the solution to it ...

you never stop learning ...

how come the hungry and poor masses in romania don´t have your strategic eye and cleverness ...?

they - like the rest of romania - have to make a living and don´t mix personal situation (propaganda-salary) with the situation of a society.

a pitty the democratic & civil-rights movement within eu still is alive and stopping the eu-"constitution", otherwise you could already shoot the anti-european-workers ...

please don´t compare to serbia, even with one year pro-europeans in government, this is absolute madness ...

szemi

pre 14 godina

Ataman, a simple comparison: Two very similar cities, just 80 km distance between them:
Timisoara and Novi Sad. Now in the crisis we have an unemployment of about 3,5-3,8%.
I don`t know the exact figures for Novi Sad, but befor the crisis it was higher then 15%.
That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 21:01)

Excellent example to show the diference between being and EU member and staying out of it.If you are a member your unemployed can easier go to another EU country and beg in the streets or if they are luckier find a job as a dishwasher.After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic) http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Romanian+beggars+now+spread+across+the+country/1135235935144
http://news.scotsman.com/immigrationandrefugees/Romanian-beggars-in-gang-effort.3301464.jp
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=95302
http://anallseeingeye.blogspot.com/2009/08/romanian-beggars-flood-copenhagen.html

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

Ataman, a simple comparison: Two very similar cities, just 80 km distance between them:
Timisoara and Novi Sad. Now in the crisis we have an unemployment of about 3,5-3,8%.
I don`t know the exact figures for Novi Sad, but befor the crisis it was higher then 15%.
That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.

adrian/bucharest

pre 14 godina

Chill guys, what's EU got to do with this strike?!
This strike is the result of populistic electoral promises last year and an unreformed public sector (kept unreformed for the same purpose).
Last year the Parliament with the votes of the recently dismanteled coalition passed a law that was doubling (just like this, overnight) the salaries of proffesors (all of them). Later, of course this kind of measure turned unrealistic.
Out of this 750000 people working in the public sector, at least 200000 could go home and no effect will be felt in the public services whatsoever.
While many, including myself, support the measures of increasing wages for doctors, proffesors, police officers, researchers etc., the main beneficiaries of public sector employment are entire armies of secretaries, drivers, administrative staff or even higher ranking officlas with no responsibilities, but home on Friday at 2.30 pm.
The issue with 10 unpaid days was an alternative to sacking. If some years ago, salaries in private sector were considered good ones compared to public sector, nowadays it's the other way around.
Presidential elections are next month, so what a great way for trade unions' representatives to find some lucrative deals these days.
Just an example: you work for the army let's say (or the police) for 25 yrs (doing nothing, the worst security incident in the last 20 yrs was when a guy threw some blue ink at the former president Constantinescu), then you retire at 50 with a nice pension of around 1200 Euro, you're still young, life's still beautiful, get some other job, even in the public sector, get some other 1000, long live The State!

szemi

pre 14 godina

EU is both ways. What is catastrophic about EU: true, it gives you SOME opportunities you won't have otherwise. But it gives the corrupt fat cats even more opportunities.
(Ataman, 5 October 2009 17:38)

Well I could not have put it down better.One of the best summeries of what EU is about.You are allowed to enter the racing track as opposed to previous system but one of your legs is shot just before the race starts.If you are really very strong you can beat the fat cats.However most folks are much much weaker and collapse at the scratch.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

No, szemi, the reason is that we ar a balkan state. Same catastrophy like Serbia. Without the EU it would be even worse.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 13:41)

EU is both ways. What is catastrophic about EU: true, it gives you SOME opportunities you won't have otherwise. But it gives the corrupt fat cats even more opportunities.

And as for Balkan: after over a year in Hungary I fail to see, where it is any better than the rest if it is about corruption. One day it is about BKV scandal the employees giving themself premiums I never did see (I did work for few famous companies and my current one is just bouncing back good - knock, knock). And than it turns out, similar scam is all over MÁV as well. And as for PM-s: one is construction project scamster + notorious liar, the other is goose-chaser and the opposition is either into "business" with wineries or are just plain nazi madmen (yeah, like Tokyo and Jakarta - Iaºi = "Jászvásár" is and always was Hungary)

Mircea

pre 14 godina

szemi, Europe would be in a much worse situation without the EU. Also, I was right regarding the Lisbon Treaty. The Irish voted YES.

rahman morina

pre 14 godina

good for workers in romania. but ten day unpaid leave, wt.. is that? any romanians here that could explain? do they only pay you for working days out of 20 each month? btw i look at romania everyday and count ripples on the danube that's my work pretty much :) good luck to you friends and colleagues, dont let the state rip you off completely :)

niko kurkuli

pre 14 godina

EU is becomen every year more powerfull.the credit crunch started in america and still there.the only country in EU that suffer the credit crunch is UK.the rest of EU has all ready come out of it.if you think that there EU to blame for the romanians,you ARE WRONG.the corruptions in romania is alarming and all EU is doing help.there is milions of euros going to romanian budget every year from the EU.all they need to do is take care of them self.

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

No, szemi, the reason is that we ar a balkan state. Same catastrophy like Serbia. Without the EU it would be even worse.

szemi

pre 14 godina

The results of EU accesion are being felt.Expect more protests and civil unrests especially once lisbon treaty is in power
all over €USSR.The beautiful world of Mircea.

szemi

pre 14 godina

The results of EU accesion are being felt.Expect more protests and civil unrests especially once lisbon treaty is in power
all over €USSR.The beautiful world of Mircea.

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

No, szemi, the reason is that we ar a balkan state. Same catastrophy like Serbia. Without the EU it would be even worse.

szemi

pre 14 godina

EU is both ways. What is catastrophic about EU: true, it gives you SOME opportunities you won't have otherwise. But it gives the corrupt fat cats even more opportunities.
(Ataman, 5 October 2009 17:38)

Well I could not have put it down better.One of the best summeries of what EU is about.You are allowed to enter the racing track as opposed to previous system but one of your legs is shot just before the race starts.If you are really very strong you can beat the fat cats.However most folks are much much weaker and collapse at the scratch.

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

Ataman, a simple comparison: Two very similar cities, just 80 km distance between them:
Timisoara and Novi Sad. Now in the crisis we have an unemployment of about 3,5-3,8%.
I don`t know the exact figures for Novi Sad, but befor the crisis it was higher then 15%.
That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.

niko kurkuli

pre 14 godina

EU is becomen every year more powerfull.the credit crunch started in america and still there.the only country in EU that suffer the credit crunch is UK.the rest of EU has all ready come out of it.if you think that there EU to blame for the romanians,you ARE WRONG.the corruptions in romania is alarming and all EU is doing help.there is milions of euros going to romanian budget every year from the EU.all they need to do is take care of them self.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

No, szemi, the reason is that we ar a balkan state. Same catastrophy like Serbia. Without the EU it would be even worse.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 13:41)

EU is both ways. What is catastrophic about EU: true, it gives you SOME opportunities you won't have otherwise. But it gives the corrupt fat cats even more opportunities.

And as for Balkan: after over a year in Hungary I fail to see, where it is any better than the rest if it is about corruption. One day it is about BKV scandal the employees giving themself premiums I never did see (I did work for few famous companies and my current one is just bouncing back good - knock, knock). And than it turns out, similar scam is all over MÁV as well. And as for PM-s: one is construction project scamster + notorious liar, the other is goose-chaser and the opposition is either into "business" with wineries or are just plain nazi madmen (yeah, like Tokyo and Jakarta - Iaºi = "Jászvásár" is and always was Hungary)

rahman morina

pre 14 godina

good for workers in romania. but ten day unpaid leave, wt.. is that? any romanians here that could explain? do they only pay you for working days out of 20 each month? btw i look at romania everyday and count ripples on the danube that's my work pretty much :) good luck to you friends and colleagues, dont let the state rip you off completely :)

Mircea

pre 14 godina

szemi, Europe would be in a much worse situation without the EU. Also, I was right regarding the Lisbon Treaty. The Irish voted YES.

Felix

pre 14 godina

I'm not saying the EU is good or not, it's just that this story now is nothing about the EU or not EU. The problem is that communism made these people expect guaranteed income and permanent care and directions from the all-mighty State. It's not the workers in the private sector striking, it's damn workers in the State sector. They are too many, too incompetent and inefficient and want bigger salaries which they _do_not_ deserve. If they did deserve bigger salaries they would just do something about it - in the private sector - or even start businesses themselves. But it's much easier to strike and wait for the state to sort out your own situation.

As for the syndicates and such movements, they are just big corporations looking after their own interests, very good at manipulating the masses to reach their goals.

The bottom line is: if these people don't understand that they have to start doing something (in the real economy, that is), this country is going to default. Or at least, if they choose to stay in the State sector then fine, good - your choice. But then don't complain!

konstantin gregovic

pre 14 godina

Its always entertaining to here from certain voices how much better off Romania is with the EU.

Its worth noting that both Belarus and Serbia are not members of the EU and they are only marginally behind in GDP Per Capita according to the IMF.

Croatia is ahead of Romania and is yet to be a member of the EU.



65 Romania 12,600
66 Bulgaria 12,322
67 Belarus 12,313
68 Mauritius 12,011
69 Grenada 11,464
70 Kazakhstan 11,434
71 Panama 11,362
72 Montenegro 11,111
73 Iran 11,052
74 Serbia 10,810

adrian/bucharest

pre 14 godina

Chill guys, what's EU got to do with this strike?!
This strike is the result of populistic electoral promises last year and an unreformed public sector (kept unreformed for the same purpose).
Last year the Parliament with the votes of the recently dismanteled coalition passed a law that was doubling (just like this, overnight) the salaries of proffesors (all of them). Later, of course this kind of measure turned unrealistic.
Out of this 750000 people working in the public sector, at least 200000 could go home and no effect will be felt in the public services whatsoever.
While many, including myself, support the measures of increasing wages for doctors, proffesors, police officers, researchers etc., the main beneficiaries of public sector employment are entire armies of secretaries, drivers, administrative staff or even higher ranking officlas with no responsibilities, but home on Friday at 2.30 pm.
The issue with 10 unpaid days was an alternative to sacking. If some years ago, salaries in private sector were considered good ones compared to public sector, nowadays it's the other way around.
Presidential elections are next month, so what a great way for trade unions' representatives to find some lucrative deals these days.
Just an example: you work for the army let's say (or the police) for 25 yrs (doing nothing, the worst security incident in the last 20 yrs was when a guy threw some blue ink at the former president Constantinescu), then you retire at 50 with a nice pension of around 1200 Euro, you're still young, life's still beautiful, get some other job, even in the public sector, get some other 1000, long live The State!

szemi

pre 14 godina

Ataman, a simple comparison: Two very similar cities, just 80 km distance between them:
Timisoara and Novi Sad. Now in the crisis we have an unemployment of about 3,5-3,8%.
I don`t know the exact figures for Novi Sad, but befor the crisis it was higher then 15%.
That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 21:01)

Excellent example to show the diference between being and EU member and staying out of it.If you are a member your unemployed can easier go to another EU country and beg in the streets or if they are luckier find a job as a dishwasher.After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic) http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Romanian+beggars+now+spread+across+the+country/1135235935144
http://news.scotsman.com/immigrationandrefugees/Romanian-beggars-in-gang-effort.3301464.jp
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=95302
http://anallseeingeye.blogspot.com/2009/08/romanian-beggars-flood-copenhagen.html

raso

pre 14 godina

well adrian & mircea, our propaganda-comrades & siam-twins have obviously an explenation for everything ...

the eu, as main creator of the problem, now is the solution to it ...

you never stop learning ...

how come the hungry and poor masses in romania don´t have your strategic eye and cleverness ...?

they - like the rest of romania - have to make a living and don´t mix personal situation (propaganda-salary) with the situation of a society.

a pitty the democratic & civil-rights movement within eu still is alive and stopping the eu-"constitution", otherwise you could already shoot the anti-european-workers ...

please don´t compare to serbia, even with one year pro-europeans in government, this is absolute madness ...

euroman

pre 14 godina

Just because Romania is member of EU now this doent mean they have to enjoy same standars as the west,they were comunists for 50 years and they are used to bribes and lazyness,so they have to work in order to have the western life style.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 21:01)

I think it is rather about lowering the taxes. For instance, the entire border region is giving job for commuters from Hungary - mostly construction workers. It's not EU what "made" it in any direct way, rather indirectly ( = people can move across the borders to find a job).

I do not know how about Romania, but in Hungary a lot of monies from EU landed up in private pockets. Barely (if anything) is being felt. But fat cats got fatter.

Imagine, how much help the transportation companies like BKV or MÁV got from EU - and how much of that did "disappear". To add to the insult, MÁV union has an excellent relationship with Orbán and goes on strike any time to create some extra political tension. At the same time they seem to steal as much as they can - and it's not even illegal because theft is done by assigning enormous bonuses. Typically a bonus or severance package is worth TWO large family homes, not one. And surprise - the one who received the enormous severance package is ... hired back a bit later. Just to being "laid off" again - with a new package.

The role of EU here is, they provide loans, programs, etc. Most of these monies are gone. And of course the ones who now play the severance or bonus game are the old comrades.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

Felix,

If you are right, that means - what a surprise - the situation in Romania is like in Hungary, where only ONE out of TEN citizens does the productive work. Why is that in Romania you know better. I can tell, that I would be happy to work for my company's (non-existing) Hungarian branch. But looking quickly at the taxation it turned out that in order to pay me 700000 Ft / month "net" the company + me would be taxed so they would have about 2000000 Ft / month expenses. This is simply outlandish compared with either Serbia or USA. So there we are: I am a quasi-tourist in Hungary.

With such policies no wonder, that only who are into "BDSM" lifestyle do start their own business here, it's really for masochists.

It's not the "laziness" as some "usual" west-European "know all better" troll writes, it's that the State does not provide an environment beneficial for small/medium business.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

Just because Romania is member of EU now this doent mean they have to enjoy same standars as the west,they were comunists for 50 years and they are used to bribes and lazyness,so they have to work in order to have the western life style.
(euroman, 6 October 2009 02:32)

An other fine citizen of Trollhätten is spoken. Your voice counts, trolls are busy.

Felix

pre 14 godina

"After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic)

(szemi, 5 October 2009 22:53)"

Szemi, I followed your links and you know what, you're right. Still no-one would take Romania out of the EU because as of today Romania is a net contributor to the EU (and with NATO troops and political support and so on and so forth). Not to mention the economic concessions that have been made to so many EU members before accession.

I'm not even sure that the majority of Romanians really insisted on being part of the EU, however in the end I don't think it's a bad idea (assuming that the EU doesn't turn into some sort of socialist super-state, which is a real danger). Anyway, if you have any complaints, better send them to France, they insisted. Our French brothers insisted on this project.

Ataman, Romania isn't a business haven either, however one thing I can tell you with no fear of being wrong: it's now a much better business environment than it used to be during socialist times. I have Customers in France, UK and home, suppliers in Germany, partners from the US and while this is no brilliant moment, I'd say we should be fine. That is, of course, assuming that the EU doesn't turn into some sort of socialist super-state, which is a real danger...

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

"After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic)"

Maybe, szemy.In Serbia they don`t have even that choice. Every week at Stamora-Moravica a number of serbian citizens are seeking asylum in Romania. Wonder why.

szemi

pre 14 godina

Maybe, szemy.In Serbia they don`t have even that choice. Every week at Stamora-Moravica a number of serbian citizens are seeking asylum in Romania. Wonder why.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 6 October 2009 17:21

Well I think I was not precise enough in my previous comments and thus it may have sounded as if I tried to generalize.Those beggars from Romania are mainly members of Roma community.Those who seek asylium are as well http://www.romanianewswatch.com/2007/07/roma-from-serbia-seek-asylum-in-romania.html .For them Romania is really a good trambulin from where they can freely move westwards unfortunatelly in order to beg in the streets.Before romania's accesion there were many romas coming from Transylwania seeking asylum in Hungary for the same reason.So you are right they have better prospects being an EU citizen.Unfortunatelly all this trend leads to such events which we have witnessed recantly in Belfast.Seems that westerners like to preach about lack of tolerance in Eastern Europe while they lose their temper much faster.Anyway if there is realy any difference between NS and Timisore It can rather be contributed to the fact that Serbia as opposed to Romania is heavily handicapped after the embargo and bombings and it has nothing to do with EU membership.Otherwise I do not no why my friends in BG doing the same job have deeper pockets and much better lifestyle than those in Bucarest.

glenn möllergren

pre 14 godina

1. EU won't turn into a "socialist" super-state. A super-state indeed, it's underway - but a market economy one. It's constitutional and it's the very reason why the EU exists at all.
2. Yeah, "westeners" seem to critisize the lack of tolerance towards minorities in the East, but get nervous when things happen in their own countries. But you see, it's not ALL westeners who are like this. Some of us are just tolerant to others, even to EU-clining, market-economy-kissing, trade union-hater easteners. Others are intolerant to everyone. A shame to be so full of hatred.
3. Novi S and Timisora. Yeah, why not compare Timisoara to Szeged? Szeged to Ljubljana? Ljubljana to Trieste? And so on? Every place has its history. It's a sign of intellectual poverty to stick to shallow empirism. Unemployment, officially, is below 4% in Timisoara. OK... Well, I have a house in a village in Transylvania. I go there several times a year, staying for months altogether. The official unemployment might be close to zero there. On the other hand, no-one has a job. 20 years ago, there were six bus lines daily taking people to and from work in neighbouring towns and villages. Now, there is one a week. And "employment" is zero.
Actually, unemployment is much higher in Sweden than in Romania, officially. Still more Romanians come here than reverse. So it really proves nothing.
A few things can be noted though: The fall of communism paved way for a dramatic increase in open poverty, trafficking, drug trade, corruption and, most of all, complete dependance on the West for all countries involved (save for Russia, Belarus and Pridnestrovie). In the more well-off contries the past 20 years also saw a sharp rise in private consumption. How much higher this rise is than it would've been with socialist rule is of course uncertain. Parts of the consumption rise, though, corresponds with a rise in state debt (=future subordination to richer states). Romania 20 years ago had a debt of zero.

IF capitalism would've delivered the goods to the ex-communist countries, we would've seen a tremendous popular support for the system. Now, on the contrary: Masses emigrate. Millions of voters don't bother to participate in the elections. Those that do, oftenly vote for politicians from the old system. And the capitalist-advocating parties count membership figures in fragments of per cents.

But for us westeners, it's great that communism came down. Now we can benefit from cheap labour. Only a few of us have bad feelings of being slave-runners when we go shopping our cheap electronics and food products.

Mircea

pre 14 godina

szemi, Europe would be in a much worse situation without the EU. Also, I was right regarding the Lisbon Treaty. The Irish voted YES.

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

Ataman, a simple comparison: Two very similar cities, just 80 km distance between them:
Timisoara and Novi Sad. Now in the crisis we have an unemployment of about 3,5-3,8%.
I don`t know the exact figures for Novi Sad, but befor the crisis it was higher then 15%.
That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.

szemi

pre 14 godina

The results of EU accesion are being felt.Expect more protests and civil unrests especially once lisbon treaty is in power
all over €USSR.The beautiful world of Mircea.

niko kurkuli

pre 14 godina

EU is becomen every year more powerfull.the credit crunch started in america and still there.the only country in EU that suffer the credit crunch is UK.the rest of EU has all ready come out of it.if you think that there EU to blame for the romanians,you ARE WRONG.the corruptions in romania is alarming and all EU is doing help.there is milions of euros going to romanian budget every year from the EU.all they need to do is take care of them self.

szemi

pre 14 godina

EU is both ways. What is catastrophic about EU: true, it gives you SOME opportunities you won't have otherwise. But it gives the corrupt fat cats even more opportunities.
(Ataman, 5 October 2009 17:38)

Well I could not have put it down better.One of the best summeries of what EU is about.You are allowed to enter the racing track as opposed to previous system but one of your legs is shot just before the race starts.If you are really very strong you can beat the fat cats.However most folks are much much weaker and collapse at the scratch.

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

No, szemi, the reason is that we ar a balkan state. Same catastrophy like Serbia. Without the EU it would be even worse.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

No, szemi, the reason is that we ar a balkan state. Same catastrophy like Serbia. Without the EU it would be even worse.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 13:41)

EU is both ways. What is catastrophic about EU: true, it gives you SOME opportunities you won't have otherwise. But it gives the corrupt fat cats even more opportunities.

And as for Balkan: after over a year in Hungary I fail to see, where it is any better than the rest if it is about corruption. One day it is about BKV scandal the employees giving themself premiums I never did see (I did work for few famous companies and my current one is just bouncing back good - knock, knock). And than it turns out, similar scam is all over MÁV as well. And as for PM-s: one is construction project scamster + notorious liar, the other is goose-chaser and the opposition is either into "business" with wineries or are just plain nazi madmen (yeah, like Tokyo and Jakarta - Iaºi = "Jászvásár" is and always was Hungary)

szemi

pre 14 godina

Ataman, a simple comparison: Two very similar cities, just 80 km distance between them:
Timisoara and Novi Sad. Now in the crisis we have an unemployment of about 3,5-3,8%.
I don`t know the exact figures for Novi Sad, but befor the crisis it was higher then 15%.
That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 21:01)

Excellent example to show the diference between being and EU member and staying out of it.If you are a member your unemployed can easier go to another EU country and beg in the streets or if they are luckier find a job as a dishwasher.After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic) http://www.hs.fi/english/article/Romanian+beggars+now+spread+across+the+country/1135235935144
http://news.scotsman.com/immigrationandrefugees/Romanian-beggars-in-gang-effort.3301464.jp
http://www.novinite.com/view_news.php?id=95302
http://anallseeingeye.blogspot.com/2009/08/romanian-beggars-flood-copenhagen.html

raso

pre 14 godina

well adrian & mircea, our propaganda-comrades & siam-twins have obviously an explenation for everything ...

the eu, as main creator of the problem, now is the solution to it ...

you never stop learning ...

how come the hungry and poor masses in romania don´t have your strategic eye and cleverness ...?

they - like the rest of romania - have to make a living and don´t mix personal situation (propaganda-salary) with the situation of a society.

a pitty the democratic & civil-rights movement within eu still is alive and stopping the eu-"constitution", otherwise you could already shoot the anti-european-workers ...

please don´t compare to serbia, even with one year pro-europeans in government, this is absolute madness ...

euroman

pre 14 godina

Just because Romania is member of EU now this doent mean they have to enjoy same standars as the west,they were comunists for 50 years and they are used to bribes and lazyness,so they have to work in order to have the western life style.

rahman morina

pre 14 godina

good for workers in romania. but ten day unpaid leave, wt.. is that? any romanians here that could explain? do they only pay you for working days out of 20 each month? btw i look at romania everyday and count ripples on the danube that's my work pretty much :) good luck to you friends and colleagues, dont let the state rip you off completely :)

adrian/bucharest

pre 14 godina

Chill guys, what's EU got to do with this strike?!
This strike is the result of populistic electoral promises last year and an unreformed public sector (kept unreformed for the same purpose).
Last year the Parliament with the votes of the recently dismanteled coalition passed a law that was doubling (just like this, overnight) the salaries of proffesors (all of them). Later, of course this kind of measure turned unrealistic.
Out of this 750000 people working in the public sector, at least 200000 could go home and no effect will be felt in the public services whatsoever.
While many, including myself, support the measures of increasing wages for doctors, proffesors, police officers, researchers etc., the main beneficiaries of public sector employment are entire armies of secretaries, drivers, administrative staff or even higher ranking officlas with no responsibilities, but home on Friday at 2.30 pm.
The issue with 10 unpaid days was an alternative to sacking. If some years ago, salaries in private sector were considered good ones compared to public sector, nowadays it's the other way around.
Presidential elections are next month, so what a great way for trade unions' representatives to find some lucrative deals these days.
Just an example: you work for the army let's say (or the police) for 25 yrs (doing nothing, the worst security incident in the last 20 yrs was when a guy threw some blue ink at the former president Constantinescu), then you retire at 50 with a nice pension of around 1200 Euro, you're still young, life's still beautiful, get some other job, even in the public sector, get some other 1000, long live The State!

Ataman

pre 14 godina

That is the difference between EU or Non-EU.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 5 October 2009 21:01)

I think it is rather about lowering the taxes. For instance, the entire border region is giving job for commuters from Hungary - mostly construction workers. It's not EU what "made" it in any direct way, rather indirectly ( = people can move across the borders to find a job).

I do not know how about Romania, but in Hungary a lot of monies from EU landed up in private pockets. Barely (if anything) is being felt. But fat cats got fatter.

Imagine, how much help the transportation companies like BKV or MÁV got from EU - and how much of that did "disappear". To add to the insult, MÁV union has an excellent relationship with Orbán and goes on strike any time to create some extra political tension. At the same time they seem to steal as much as they can - and it's not even illegal because theft is done by assigning enormous bonuses. Typically a bonus or severance package is worth TWO large family homes, not one. And surprise - the one who received the enormous severance package is ... hired back a bit later. Just to being "laid off" again - with a new package.

The role of EU here is, they provide loans, programs, etc. Most of these monies are gone. And of course the ones who now play the severance or bonus game are the old comrades.

Felix

pre 14 godina

I'm not saying the EU is good or not, it's just that this story now is nothing about the EU or not EU. The problem is that communism made these people expect guaranteed income and permanent care and directions from the all-mighty State. It's not the workers in the private sector striking, it's damn workers in the State sector. They are too many, too incompetent and inefficient and want bigger salaries which they _do_not_ deserve. If they did deserve bigger salaries they would just do something about it - in the private sector - or even start businesses themselves. But it's much easier to strike and wait for the state to sort out your own situation.

As for the syndicates and such movements, they are just big corporations looking after their own interests, very good at manipulating the masses to reach their goals.

The bottom line is: if these people don't understand that they have to start doing something (in the real economy, that is), this country is going to default. Or at least, if they choose to stay in the State sector then fine, good - your choice. But then don't complain!

Ataman

pre 14 godina

Felix,

If you are right, that means - what a surprise - the situation in Romania is like in Hungary, where only ONE out of TEN citizens does the productive work. Why is that in Romania you know better. I can tell, that I would be happy to work for my company's (non-existing) Hungarian branch. But looking quickly at the taxation it turned out that in order to pay me 700000 Ft / month "net" the company + me would be taxed so they would have about 2000000 Ft / month expenses. This is simply outlandish compared with either Serbia or USA. So there we are: I am a quasi-tourist in Hungary.

With such policies no wonder, that only who are into "BDSM" lifestyle do start their own business here, it's really for masochists.

It's not the "laziness" as some "usual" west-European "know all better" troll writes, it's that the State does not provide an environment beneficial for small/medium business.

Ataman

pre 14 godina

Just because Romania is member of EU now this doent mean they have to enjoy same standars as the west,they were comunists for 50 years and they are used to bribes and lazyness,so they have to work in order to have the western life style.
(euroman, 6 October 2009 02:32)

An other fine citizen of Trollhätten is spoken. Your voice counts, trolls are busy.

Felix

pre 14 godina

"After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic)

(szemi, 5 October 2009 22:53)"

Szemi, I followed your links and you know what, you're right. Still no-one would take Romania out of the EU because as of today Romania is a net contributor to the EU (and with NATO troops and political support and so on and so forth). Not to mention the economic concessions that have been made to so many EU members before accession.

I'm not even sure that the majority of Romanians really insisted on being part of the EU, however in the end I don't think it's a bad idea (assuming that the EU doesn't turn into some sort of socialist super-state, which is a real danger). Anyway, if you have any complaints, better send them to France, they insisted. Our French brothers insisted on this project.

Ataman, Romania isn't a business haven either, however one thing I can tell you with no fear of being wrong: it's now a much better business environment than it used to be during socialist times. I have Customers in France, UK and home, suppliers in Germany, partners from the US and while this is no brilliant moment, I'd say we should be fine. That is, of course, assuming that the EU doesn't turn into some sort of socialist super-state, which is a real danger...

adrian, timisoara, romania

pre 14 godina

"After Romania's EU accesion the streets in more developed EU countries were flooded with romanian beggars.(Although some landed in the less developed ones as poland hungary or czeh republic)"

Maybe, szemy.In Serbia they don`t have even that choice. Every week at Stamora-Moravica a number of serbian citizens are seeking asylum in Romania. Wonder why.

szemi

pre 14 godina

Maybe, szemy.In Serbia they don`t have even that choice. Every week at Stamora-Moravica a number of serbian citizens are seeking asylum in Romania. Wonder why.
(adrian, timisoara, romania, 6 October 2009 17:21

Well I think I was not precise enough in my previous comments and thus it may have sounded as if I tried to generalize.Those beggars from Romania are mainly members of Roma community.Those who seek asylium are as well http://www.romanianewswatch.com/2007/07/roma-from-serbia-seek-asylum-in-romania.html .For them Romania is really a good trambulin from where they can freely move westwards unfortunatelly in order to beg in the streets.Before romania's accesion there were many romas coming from Transylwania seeking asylum in Hungary for the same reason.So you are right they have better prospects being an EU citizen.Unfortunatelly all this trend leads to such events which we have witnessed recantly in Belfast.Seems that westerners like to preach about lack of tolerance in Eastern Europe while they lose their temper much faster.Anyway if there is realy any difference between NS and Timisore It can rather be contributed to the fact that Serbia as opposed to Romania is heavily handicapped after the embargo and bombings and it has nothing to do with EU membership.Otherwise I do not no why my friends in BG doing the same job have deeper pockets and much better lifestyle than those in Bucarest.

konstantin gregovic

pre 14 godina

Its always entertaining to here from certain voices how much better off Romania is with the EU.

Its worth noting that both Belarus and Serbia are not members of the EU and they are only marginally behind in GDP Per Capita according to the IMF.

Croatia is ahead of Romania and is yet to be a member of the EU.



65 Romania 12,600
66 Bulgaria 12,322
67 Belarus 12,313
68 Mauritius 12,011
69 Grenada 11,464
70 Kazakhstan 11,434
71 Panama 11,362
72 Montenegro 11,111
73 Iran 11,052
74 Serbia 10,810

glenn möllergren

pre 14 godina

1. EU won't turn into a "socialist" super-state. A super-state indeed, it's underway - but a market economy one. It's constitutional and it's the very reason why the EU exists at all.
2. Yeah, "westeners" seem to critisize the lack of tolerance towards minorities in the East, but get nervous when things happen in their own countries. But you see, it's not ALL westeners who are like this. Some of us are just tolerant to others, even to EU-clining, market-economy-kissing, trade union-hater easteners. Others are intolerant to everyone. A shame to be so full of hatred.
3. Novi S and Timisora. Yeah, why not compare Timisoara to Szeged? Szeged to Ljubljana? Ljubljana to Trieste? And so on? Every place has its history. It's a sign of intellectual poverty to stick to shallow empirism. Unemployment, officially, is below 4% in Timisoara. OK... Well, I have a house in a village in Transylvania. I go there several times a year, staying for months altogether. The official unemployment might be close to zero there. On the other hand, no-one has a job. 20 years ago, there were six bus lines daily taking people to and from work in neighbouring towns and villages. Now, there is one a week. And "employment" is zero.
Actually, unemployment is much higher in Sweden than in Romania, officially. Still more Romanians come here than reverse. So it really proves nothing.
A few things can be noted though: The fall of communism paved way for a dramatic increase in open poverty, trafficking, drug trade, corruption and, most of all, complete dependance on the West for all countries involved (save for Russia, Belarus and Pridnestrovie). In the more well-off contries the past 20 years also saw a sharp rise in private consumption. How much higher this rise is than it would've been with socialist rule is of course uncertain. Parts of the consumption rise, though, corresponds with a rise in state debt (=future subordination to richer states). Romania 20 years ago had a debt of zero.

IF capitalism would've delivered the goods to the ex-communist countries, we would've seen a tremendous popular support for the system. Now, on the contrary: Masses emigrate. Millions of voters don't bother to participate in the elections. Those that do, oftenly vote for politicians from the old system. And the capitalist-advocating parties count membership figures in fragments of per cents.

But for us westeners, it's great that communism came down. Now we can benefit from cheap labour. Only a few of us have bad feelings of being slave-runners when we go shopping our cheap electronics and food products.