Taton killers facing aggravated murder

It goes without saying that I deeply regret the death of Brice Taton and support this peace march. This time I think the hooligans will hide their faces in shame.

But let me put the cat among the piegons (while maintaining respectful tone for the memory of Taton):

When I was on the Kosovo protest, watching the US embassy burning, watching shops get smashed up etc much of that violence was various Partizan (and to lesser extent Zvezda) hooligan groups. I saw group leaders literally instructing the kids what to do - as they do in stadiums.

My question is, is it any wonder that when acts of violence carried out are condoned by sections of society (in the name of Kosovo) that young men (or hooligans) are confused about what is right and what is wrong?

Similar is true for events of October 5th.

One of the things they tell us about good parenting is to not give our children confused messages. Violence is ok in the name of Kosovo, its ok to take out your energy by beating up gays etc. And yet the other 'parent' - society says the law must be respected and that violence is a crime.

Let me be clear - either violence is ok or it is not. In my opinion it is not and it is my opinion that those kids are being failed both by their parents and by Serbian society who are sending them mixed messages about what is ok and what is right.

So let us not pretend that this isn't also our fault for sending these hooligans mixed messages, it is. They are a product of what they see around them.

Let us support peacefull and smart policies and not fall into the trap of hatred.

I can't describe with words how sorry I am for Brice Taton and his family. I'm disgusted by this cowardly act. Unfortunately it's not the first time Partizan "fans" cause trouble. I don't understand how we Serbs can allow them to cause problems time and time again. Countless times have I read how they attack people, may it be a during a game in Serbia or elswhere in Europe. Our incompetence to stop these hooligans in the first place have contributed to the death of Brice, since these hooligans have been able to continue with their deeds, more or less, unpunished. Even though a few people were directly responsible for this act the Serbian government and we as a people have to take some responsibility as well. However, it's to bad it had to come to this before we react and finaly do something about these criminals.

Brice, may you rest in peace and may your family get the justice they deserve!

I agree with Bganon. Serbian young people should accept the new reality wich has occured in the Balkan this 20 years. Don't forget that serbians or albanians for that matter is european people and should integrate into the european sociaty. With this serbian young people should accept that time has changed. Yes Serbia should get Eu-membership, and serbs should know that there is gay's in their sociaty and accept their living. I'm personally not for homosexulality and I cannot understand it but who am I to judge other peoples faith and living ? I don't like when people keep dogs or cats at home but I cannato judge them and I still respect the people as human beings. One new reality wich serb young people should also accept is that Kosovo cannot be under the ''same roof'' as Serbia. It is impossible to turn back time and make Kosovo un-independent. As we all can see Kosovo leaders and the people in Kosovo has gone far in their building a multi ethnic state. People are starting to move back and make a small living at start and have bigger problems. Serb young people should fight for a change in their goverment to approach new policys against Kosovo and different communitys in Serbia. The bad factor into the problems of K-serbs and K-albanians is Serbia and Belgrade wich sends bad messegae to the people there. Serbia should but her force into Eu and not Kosovo. Take the possible before the impossible and help your people to start thinking on making a better living and a free and harmonioc sociaty for the people in Serbia.



Brice, Rest in Peace. I am sorry as a human being fore this. I lost a familymember for not so long ago so I feel for the family.

Excellent post bganon, a message that could apply to the whole world.

I hope his death wont be in vain, something good will come out of it.... I am sure..

I am an Austrian anthropology researcher and I was planning to go to Serbia to complete some Slavic studies. After these events I will stay away.
There is so much hate and violence in Serbia that I would be taking my life at risk. I have just read about that German pilot that was harasses and the helicopter assaults in Sweden by Serbian mafia. Perhaps Croatia would be a better choice for my work. They are much better there.

Gunther

I true european would not write as you do! Austria is a respected country and its people are respected all over the world. The incidents in Belgrade is not worse than the ones in other European cities. Its so obvious you are an Albanian or Croat in disguise. I just wonder what you will call yourself next time?

Yes, Gunther, go to Croatia, please. It's attitudes like yours that are the root of these problems (Hooligans). I found no value in your post, just another opportunity to take a poke at Serbia.

Let us support peacefull and smart policies and not fall into the trap of hatred.
(bganon, 30 September 2009 12:00)

You said it all...

I do not see, anyone made sufficient efforts in the conflict you mentioned to make both sides a winner
(Ataman, 30 September 2009 15:40)

10 years peaceful resistance under Rugova are more than a sufficient effort to resolve the conflict where both would be winners. Time to blame the other party.

Attitudes like yours, Miri, is why there will never be peace in the Balkans. You look through revengeful eyes, and that is blinding you with hatred. RIP, Brice.

German pilot that was harasses and the helicopter assaults in Sweden by Serbian mafia. Perhaps Croatia would be a better choice for my work. They are much better there.
(Gunther, 30 September 2009 16:15)

You have the right to judge but with a little bit more knowledge and less newspaper reading you might see it from a different angle...
Good luck wherever you go

I was born in Belgrade and have always been proud of my town and its citizens. Belgrade has always welcomed everybody. It's a pity that a minority of worthless criminals try to spoil its reputation but luckily they are a minority! I am deeply sorry for the family of the young, innocent boy whose life was much more precious than of his killers.

Americans and preaching to others about violance or violant acts.What a joke.
Here is a list of school shootings [link].
As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims.
Oh sorry are not they the two greedy countries who started the violance each time during the last century in the Balkans supporting some bandits who served their greedy expansionist plans and at the same time twisted the reality with their propagandist tools.
(szemi, 30 September 2009 20:2

Szemi,

Also add to your list the mob beating of a high school student to death in Chicago 2 days ago, the murder of an entire family of 5 in Florida last week, and yet another murder of another entire family in Missouri 2 weeks ago. These don't make much news because horrific crime in the US is so frequent I am sad to say. I am not one to trash Serbia and say my own country is much safer, and I still feel safer in Belgrade than in mist major US cities.

all this because your police force / politicians are scared of idiots and hooligans .
so scared in fact they cant protect 200 gays walking down a street for 1 hour ?
useless .

(GUNTHER) "I am an Austrian anthropology researcher and I was planning to go to Serbia to complete some Slavic studies. After these events I will stay away.
There is so much hate and violence in Serbia that I would be taking my life at risk. I have just read about that German pilot that was harasses and the helicopter assaults in Sweden by Serbian mafia. Perhaps Croatia would be a better choice for my work. They are much better there."

Yes because the Austrians are well known for being liberal tolerant people aren't they??... Oh - what's that.. Hitler was from Austria .. Hmm - better think twice before throwing stones at others eh?

Bganon.. You have spoken true words of wisdom. I am glad to see such an outpouring of support for Brice. and so we know How he died and and somehow without knowing him I feel close to the situation and would like to know how "he lived" bganon you hit it right on the dot there. I agree with every word you wrote. What messages are we sending to our children. In the end you wonder what kind of parent did these children have? It is clear either violence is right or it is wrong.. There cant be no gray area in this.. as you can see this is a result of just that. For example not to long ago a lesbian was beat up on a thew trolly and everyone stood bye and did nothing. just one example of people turning there face to a problem. no one there to stand for basic human rights. when does minding your own business stop and doing the right thing start?Let this be a wakeup call to all parents, and all young teenagers and young adults. Serbia needs change and indeed a life was paid for here, but I hope not in vein. And what words could anyone give to his parents in such a time as "Sorry" could not even begin to repay what they have lost..there son. This is a defining moment for Serbia..for the government who only stands up and is selective when it suits oneself. how many times have officers let things go unpunished with a slip of a few dollars and how many government officials can say they have not accepted bribes to push there agenda through.. I personally think its all linked together. from bad parenting to a broken dysfunctional society. Let me be clear not all of serbia is like this. There are people Rich in morals, Character and class that abide here in serbia and those are the people that are the heart of serbia. Time to stop this dysfunctional thinking, Move foward with accountability on all levels. Civil, Society, law and the public anad most important at HOME. No more slaps on the wrist for violent behavior. A country is a reflection of its people. Can Serbia learn from this and cut the politics out and update violent laws against hate crimes, harassment. Be flexible and welcoming for instance the love parade and not let fear run rapid in every politicians seat. or is some organizations interests stronger then freedom of speech? Have a sound mind in the mist of unreason, panic and anger. Be the voce of a fair and strong government that is solid paving the way to a diverse functional modern society. Because there is a right and wrong here. Its time TO Take a look at the entire problem with a fresh set of new eyes. I encourage people that are in place of leadership, act now to make the difference or why else be in the position you are in if not to help your people?

"hoping to defame the serb nation because of rare violence in our cities"
rahman morina

Denial of your kind will not help the serb nation.
This denial is going on for the last 20 years and you can see the sad results....

While I'm not sure how the attack on Brice was somehow related to Kosovo, I do agree with bganon and Demi in their assessment of people being coaxed into committing crimes by higher ups, all in the name of some warped view of national pride. And this could apply to anyone, anywhere, including the United States.

These criminals who are now charged with murder could not have orchestrated such a planned attack without being coordinated by someone above them. Football hooligans do NOT have that time of skill on their own. What I really hope is that while these criminals get the punishment they deserve, they do not become the proverbial "fall guys" to take the blame while the ones who planned the attack remain in the shadows. Or in the government. Or, God forbid, in the Church.

Gunter - good move take your own advice and avoid Serbia. Far better to go to Croatia although I feel you should familiarise yourself with the recent xhenophobic attacks in that part of the slavic world. Better still avoid doing any slavic research... seems to me you have too many preconceptions that would invalidate any serious research.

demi:

Thanks for the wonderful lesson. Yes we are gonna let you steal our territory because you say so? Right on.

Serbia is in mourning... God give Taton’s family the strength they need in this tragic moment. Rest in peace Brice...

"This denial is going on for the last 20 years and you can see the sad results...."
Joe

Serbs are in denial for the last 20 years but albanians and croats are in denial for the past 65. You never bring up the fact that you supported Hitler and comitted horrible crimes against Serbs.

By the way, what results are you talking about? Serbia just got white schengen. How is albania doing?

Good posting, Demi, and I would like to add an interesting observation.

If there is a conflict, several outcome scenarios can happen. The only scenario which would solve the conflict if both sides feel, that they won. If either side loses, that will ensure that the conflict is still there. And at the very first opportunity when the losing side feels it is stronger now - it will try to turn the table over the former winner.

I do not see, anyone made sufficient efforts in the conflict you mentioned to make both sides a winner

It is amazing how moderators still letting comments (about Kosovo) which are not suppose to be under this post.

These hooliganism has to stop and i hope that it will be dealt with it in the most appropriate manner with maximum sentences.

Yes these are the same people who were protesting and burning American Embassy. Luckily not any foreigner was killed on that night.

However, Americans were not much concerned about events which occurred on the 17th of March 2004 in Kosovo.

US and UK has inflected lot of pain and suffering on Serbia in the last 15 years. I left Serbia 20 years ago and I was not under influence of Milosevic propaganda for all these years. I can not stand US for what they did to Serbia.

These hooligans were raised during war years. They did not have normal life like other children in US or Europe. They are accustomed to violence as this is the only thing they know. I am not trying to make excuses for what they did but their upbringing was in unusual circumstances.

don't hate Mexicans. I don't however visite Tijuana, the Mexican side, where in the morning body parts can usually litter some of the streets.
(Joe, 30 September 2009 21:45)

Nobody is trying to find an excuse to cover this tragic event, but let's face the reality, the violence is unfortunately everywhere.

As you truly said you don't blame all Mexicans for what happend to your son, so why do you continuousely blame all Serbian people, accusing them of denial.
I have been travelling the all region for the last 6 years and believe it or not, Serbia remains for me the most welcoming and safest place by far.

By coincidence I was in Belgrade today and participated to the
Peace march and I was deeply touched seeing all these people paying tribute to Brice and being so angry at those criminals. I don't remember having seeing such a spontenaous movement.

America is so much safer than Serbia.
http://tiny.cc/0C6M2
RIP all innocent victims of mindless violence.
as for those crying crocodile tears hoping to defame the serb nation because of rare violence in our cities, compared to other 2+ million cities, shame on you.

bGanon is right - there is a small group of sick, evil people who are behind the hooligan violence happening in the last few years.

Even though they may not have committed the actual crimes, these instigators should be caught and given the harshest of prison sentences.

These sick types of goading instigators are not common to Serbia, they exist in all countries. They take pleasure in the thrill of directing others to commit acts of violence and feed on the misery of others.

Joe,

Americans and preaching to others about violance or violant acts.What a joke.
Here is a list of school shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting.
As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims.
Oh sorry are not they the two greedy countries who started the violance each time during the last century in the Balkans supporting some bandits who served their greedy expansionist plans and at the same time twisted the reality with their propagandist tools.

"Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years"

They weren't exactly peaceful in those years - many went to fight in the Croatian and Bosnian wars. Additionally they went abroad to raise money - often in illegal businesses such as drug smuggling. They were preparing the KLA for those years.

And the Serbian police presence put a check on the violence enough until some of the Albanians fighting in Bosnia and Croatia came back - and with western support - to spark the war in Kosovo.

Weren't you that were implying that K-Albanians haven't done enough to solve the conflict in compromising way? Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years, precisely what Serbia is offering now?

Or you just always need to have the last word.
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

What K-albanians did to sort conflict peacefully? They declared independent state and formed parallel institution. They did not take part in election to overthrown Milosevic when Panic asked them. They just sticked to their own goal of independence without compromise. Milosevic was right man for you to gain independence. You can just spread your lies how life was difficult for you in Yugoslavia. You suffered under Milosevic, but you wanted to suffer in order to gain independence.

How many of you K Albanians felt as Yugoslav? None? Do you know when Yugoslavia died? On 03.09.1987 in Paracin. Aziz Kelmendi killed what was Yugoslavia. He killed 2 Bosnian Muslims, Croat and Serb. If you dont know about it read it h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para%C4%87in_massacre. And don't tell me that is just Serbian propaganda as I was there. I did not see what happened but I was in the same barracks.

Maximum sentence for premeditated murder should be life, not 40 years.

szemi,

You don't have to remind me about crime in the US or bring it up as an excuse for crimes in Serbia. Crimes in Serbia can't be excused just because "they exist in the US too".
By the way my son was a crime victime in San Diego. He was attacked by a dozen of Mexicans just because he is blond and very "Gringo" looking. He almost got killed. Still I don't hate Mexicans. I don't however visite Tijuana, the Mexican side, where in the morning body parts can usually litter some of the streets.

You don't have to remind me about crime in the US or bring it up as an excuse for crimes in Serbia. Crimes in Serbia can't be excused just because "they exist in the US too".
(Joe, 30 September 2009 21:45)

Joe something like sense of proportion is a very important thing, in life .It is some americans who started calling Serbia a dangeruos place after some incidents without any knowlage of reality.Even if such incidents repeated themselves on weekly bases Serbia would be statisticly less dangourous than most parts of USA and the past proved that these incidents do not happen there regularly as opposed to US or even many parts in HUngary .AS a partial inhabitant of Hungary and POland and frequent traveller to both US and Serbia I can declare that Serbia is far the safest and my view is shared by many other toiurists and visitors as well as international statistics while US is among the most dangerous.I had two similar incidents to that of your son.One happened in Brookly when I was on my way to polish qurter in Green Point when some black guys attacked me while the other one In Marakesh(Morocco).The incidents which recantly happened in BG are in media simply because they are generally very rare over there.So talking about crimes in Serbia is as if we started a talk about ice hockey in Tanzania.None of them is significant phenomenon Too much fuss about nothing.But of corse some moral preachers from US have appeared at once.It reminds me hungarian proverb "Bagoly mondja Verébnek ,hogy nagyfejû"(the owl tells the sparrow that it has a big head)

roberto says..."if some of us can at least speak civily here, w/ one another, then there really is some hope."

As it is said, "Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue."

I read an interesting piece that included...

"The hypocrite, while choosing vice, recognizes that virtue is in fact better, if not for him, and assumes its appearance. When we characterize the hypocrite as dishonest, we must recognize what he is dishonest about: not about good and evil, but only about himself."

It is quite clear why people see you are as hypocritical.

as usual this has turned into a slinging match between countrys . the real culprits here are the pathetic weak serbian police , mayor , and politicians that allow hooligans and extremists to control them instead of the other way around .
for gods sakes serbs , i thought you were stronger than this , stand up to these idiots and destroy them ...these far right morons are holding your country to ransom , where is you great pride now ?

By the way my son was a crime victime in San Diego. He was attacked by a dozen of Mexicans just because he is blond and very "Gringo" looking. He almost got killed. Still I don't hate Mexicans. I don't however visite Tijuana, the Mexican side, where in the morning body parts can usually litter some of the streets.
(Joe, 30 September 2009 21:45)

It is interesting that you point out who the perpetratotrs were. They are Mexicans so basically foreigners are always to blame as the ones who commit crime in America. Is that right gringo? Not only in America everywhere else. For e.g. I live in Finland and they always blame foreigners for crimes committed. When Finn attack foreigner (happens much often than in Serbia) then excuse is that he was drunk. Black friend from University was beaten by baseball bat because he had white Finnish girl. He was in comma for 11 days but he survived. He does does not like Finns nor you like Mexicans.

bganon -- i appreciate yr posting here, and those of all who have come out against violence and intolerance.

without naming names, i've always been serious when i've said: if some of us can at least speak civily here, w/ one another, then there really is some hope. if not, that is a really bad sign.

Peace train has to start somewhere.

robert-0

Now that the thug-hooligans have been charged have their names and ages been released?

10 years peaceful resistance under Rugova are more than a sufficient effort to resolve the conflict where both would be winners. Time to blame the other party.
(miri, 30 September 2009 16:45)

1) At the moment you feel that it's time to blame anyone, that defies the purpose.
2) The conflict is several hundred year old, not 10, the last 200-300 being the worst

1) At the moment you feel that it's time to blame anyone, that defies the purpose.
2) The conflict is several hundred year old, not 10, the last 200-300 being the worst
(Ataman, 30 September 2009 20:59)

And your point is??? ...

Weren't you that were implying that K-Albanians haven't done enough to solve the conflict in compromising way? Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years, precisely what Serbia is offering now?

Or you just always need to have the last word.

I just visited Belgrade for a week. I came in before the Gay Pride Parade and was there as it got canceled. BEFORE the Parade, I was on my way to Plato's to see a friend and was stopped by a university student asking if I wanted to buy a BITEF ticket. Cutting to the chase, we talked about the Parade and he immediately told me (not knowing the first thing about me) how he hated gay people and they deserved whatever they got. This was from an "educated" person.

I was stunned.

I love BG and this is my advice to Serbians: Wake up. And for Serbs as shocked as me--SPEAK out! Not just on this blog, but in public where it really counts. And not just tomorrow, but EVERY day. This is going to be a long haul.

Personally, I think the level of nationalism, gleeful hatred of the US, obsession with Kosovo and homophobia ARE connected: I believe this percentage of your country is living in fear, stuck in the past, and dragging the rest of you with them. If such people do not mirror your hopes for the future and opinions, you need to put your voice and energy into the arena. Otherwise, these sort of people become your worldwide representatives--like it or not. What else are people to think? I have even begun to wonder what the h*ll is going on? And it's not just because of the beatings and death (as horrifying as that is), it is the fact that not ONE thing changed in the last 8 years since the first parade attempt. That should scare everyone.

I have written to B-92 before and have a genuine interest, hope, and deep affection for Serbian people. This is why I write.

The only scenario which would solve the conflict if both sides feel, that they won. If either side loses, that will ensure that the conflict is still there.
(Ataman, 30 September 2009 15:40)

So according you, we must fear that Germany will reclaim their terrorities (which were actually German since several 1000 of years)?

And with your arguments, we can say that they conflict doesn't last not only since 200-300 years, but at least 1400 years, ever since Slavic tribes invaded the Balkan peninsula. Or should we go farer back? Mesopotamian times?

Ataman thanks for your comment.


I think Serbia can win by recognizing the winner. Then Serbia could have a proud image on the historybook. It would have been the best possible outcome. By that then Serbia would have been a Eu-member and have less problems. Try to imagine wich problems serbs and the state of Serbia would have if Kosovo was inside their territory ? It would have been 'Good by' to EU and that would make Serbia a loser.

I cannot see two real winners in this conflict. It is independence or not. Serbia wanted Kosovo and the Kosovo population wanted independence from Serbia. One more time it is better to take the possible before the impossible.

And your point is??? ...

Weren't you that were implying that K-Albanians haven't done enough to solve the conflict in compromising way?
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

Ah, now I do see why the hard feelings. No, I wasn't blaming K-Albanians at all, rather the international community and that this conflict went as far as it did.
Please do not over-react and don't assume immediately a defensive stand if there is no offense intent. If not sure, better ask simply because of language barrier.

--------

Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years, precisely what Serbia is offering now?
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

The timing during autistic than-president of Serbia wasn't perfect. Unfortunately Rugova had bad luck.

--------

Or you just always need to have the last word.
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

You welcome to say the last.

this act of hooliganism=act poltic may be used agaisnt on liberalization of viza ?? WHY french citizen ?? and few houres later the declaration of mr Kuchner west balkans belong in EU??? simple coincidence:) or right moment

The French guy Brice Taton while fleeing from the fight, jumped from the top of the garages on Obilicev Venac and fell on his head. Had he not jumped he would be alive as his friends. He died from the consequences of the 10m fall, not the beating!

Everyone who kills someone deserves to answer for it, however in this case there was no intent, period.

Has anyone on behalf of France sent an apology for the 3000 dead, or at least Milica Rakic?

I see no reason why anyone in Serbia should feel any responsibility.

of the beatings and death (as horrifying as that is), it is the fact that not ONE thing changed in the last 8 years since the first parade attempt. That should scare everyone.

I have written to B-92 before and have a genuine interest, hope, and deep affection for Serbian people. This is why I write.
(Charli, 30 September 2009 21:58)

Don't you think a bit exagerated to say that NO one thing has changed since the last parade.
If you are taking the parade as a bench mark, then you are right, but otherwise a bit short...
I'm not a fan of gays but accept and respect them because I was born and raised in a country where the history had already made his way.
I'm however sure that in certain region of Switzerland a parade would never be taking place, and this also has to be respected.

Certain sensitive issues needs time to be accepted and "digested" by the people
and to judge them according to the speed they do it is in my opinion the wrong since to do.

Boban...

Since you brought up Kelmendi...I did some reading too:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2f3Azk0sCDYC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=aziz+kelmendi+paracin&source=bl&ots=zN7YfOJwWS&sig=OSfAm2paTfO8GRTOHm1NO0wf_tw&hl=en&ei=jBTFStGOA5SY8Aaq88g3&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=aziz%20kelmendi%20paracin&f=false

All I can add is that people have the right to their own opinion. People chucking a sad over whether individuals dislike gay pride parades and what not, grow up please. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

As long as it does not end in violence like this tragic incident people are entitled to think what they like.

On a sadder note, I think this situation is being manipulated and used to show Serbia trying to cry out to the world and say "Look at us! Look at how we punish these evil people, all peaceful and democratic like, our whole nation is mourning, we're cleaning up our image!" Sick and twisted man. Put the offenders in the jail, pay your respects and get on with it. Which Western country mourned for Serbian victims when NATO rained bombs on Serbia in 1999?

"As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims."
(szemi, 30 September 2009 20:2

- What are you talking about!? Serbia as a whole is smaller than the total sq.mileage of Florida marshes and have you thought about the fact that the US has more than 310 million people, compared to Serbia's 7m!? Clearly not! Please, give me a break with your idiotic comparisons.

"Szemi,

Also add to your list the mob beating of a high school student to death in Chicago 2 days ago, the murder of an entire family of 5 in Florida last week, and yet another murder of another entire family in Missouri 2 weeks ago."

- Why don't you add the last 20 years of continuous violence towards it's neighbors to Serbia while you're at it. Oh and there are court judgments and preceding's to back it up too. All resulting in more than 250,000 deaths and 3m+ refugees. Yeah, real safe Serbia hahahaha!

"As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims."
(szemi, 30 September 2009 20:2

- What are you talking about!? Serbia as a whole is smaller than the total sq.mileage of Florida marshes and have you thought about the fact that the US has more than 310 million people, compared to Serbia's 7m!? Clearly not! Please, give me a break with your idiotic comparisons.

Alem, 2 October 2009 00:56)

Well mister before teaching and preaching and categorizing other's opinion think twice(I know logic and arguments are not part of albanian culture and way of thinking as opposed to childish and histeric outburst)Bottom line :even if you check those numbers of school shooting victims per 100 000 inhabitans(usually this number is statisticly used when it comes to number of suicide and homicide victims ) you will find that americans and germans are among leaders of the list while serbs and most others from central and south east europe are nowhere in this cathegory.As to general homicide rate(victims per 100 000 inhabitants) you will find 4 times higher number of victims both in albania and USA as compared to Serbia.So please next time do not lecture me on statistics and proportions.Your answer to Jason is however even more childish since all this topic is about crime rate during peace time and not wars.

And with your arguments, we can say that they conflict doesn't last not only since 200-300 years, but at least 1400 years, ever since Slavic tribes invaded the Balkan peninsula. Or should we go farer back? Mesopotamian times?
(Berkeley, 30 September 2009 22:12)

Going back to Roman times is more than sufficient. Let's say, Calabria in Italy is named after Galabri.

Germany is not the best example - it wasn't unified till late 19th century. Much of their thinking is still tribal. Bavarians still regard Prussians as their main opponent, not the French or Poles.

Very good example are Koreans versus Japanese. That conflict is well over 2000 year old and the cost was rivers of blood. A quick look on the youtube will reveal, they hate each other more, than Albanians and Serbs. And there is no solution in sight.

On the other hand Galabri are still out there in Italy, they speak an archaic form of Albanian. There could be some little remains of Roman-Thraco/Illyrian conflict out there but not much, at least nothing compared with Japanese/Korean. Obviously, Romans and Galabri did a better job to settle the conflict.

I am an Austrian anthropology researcher and I was planning to go to Serbia to complete some Slavic studies. After these events I will stay away.
There is so much hate and violence in Serbia that I would be taking my life at risk. I have just read about that German pilot that was harasses and the helicopter assaults in Sweden by Serbian mafia. Perhaps Croatia would be a better choice for my work. They are much better there.

"hoping to defame the serb nation because of rare violence in our cities"
rahman morina

Denial of your kind will not help the serb nation.
This denial is going on for the last 20 years and you can see the sad results....

all this because your police force / politicians are scared of idiots and hooligans .
so scared in fact they cant protect 200 gays walking down a street for 1 hour ?
useless .

demi:

Thanks for the wonderful lesson. Yes we are gonna let you steal our territory because you say so? Right on.

America is so much safer than Serbia.
http://tiny.cc/0C6M2
RIP all innocent victims of mindless violence.
as for those crying crocodile tears hoping to defame the serb nation because of rare violence in our cities, compared to other 2+ million cities, shame on you.

(GUNTHER) "I am an Austrian anthropology researcher and I was planning to go to Serbia to complete some Slavic studies. After these events I will stay away.
There is so much hate and violence in Serbia that I would be taking my life at risk. I have just read about that German pilot that was harasses and the helicopter assaults in Sweden by Serbian mafia. Perhaps Croatia would be a better choice for my work. They are much better there."

Yes because the Austrians are well known for being liberal tolerant people aren't they??... Oh - what's that.. Hitler was from Austria .. Hmm - better think twice before throwing stones at others eh?

I agree with Bganon. Serbian young people should accept the new reality wich has occured in the Balkan this 20 years. Don't forget that serbians or albanians for that matter is european people and should integrate into the european sociaty. With this serbian young people should accept that time has changed. Yes Serbia should get Eu-membership, and serbs should know that there is gay's in their sociaty and accept their living. I'm personally not for homosexulality and I cannot understand it but who am I to judge other peoples faith and living ? I don't like when people keep dogs or cats at home but I cannato judge them and I still respect the people as human beings. One new reality wich serb young people should also accept is that Kosovo cannot be under the ''same roof'' as Serbia. It is impossible to turn back time and make Kosovo un-independent. As we all can see Kosovo leaders and the people in Kosovo has gone far in their building a multi ethnic state. People are starting to move back and make a small living at start and have bigger problems. Serb young people should fight for a change in their goverment to approach new policys against Kosovo and different communitys in Serbia. The bad factor into the problems of K-serbs and K-albanians is Serbia and Belgrade wich sends bad messegae to the people there. Serbia should but her force into Eu and not Kosovo. Take the possible before the impossible and help your people to start thinking on making a better living and a free and harmonioc sociaty for the people in Serbia.



Brice, Rest in Peace. I am sorry as a human being fore this. I lost a familymember for not so long ago so I feel for the family.

Gunther

I true european would not write as you do! Austria is a respected country and its people are respected all over the world. The incidents in Belgrade is not worse than the ones in other European cities. Its so obvious you are an Albanian or Croat in disguise. I just wonder what you will call yourself next time?

Yes, Gunther, go to Croatia, please. It's attitudes like yours that are the root of these problems (Hooligans). I found no value in your post, just another opportunity to take a poke at Serbia.

szemi,

You don't have to remind me about crime in the US or bring it up as an excuse for crimes in Serbia. Crimes in Serbia can't be excused just because "they exist in the US too".
By the way my son was a crime victime in San Diego. He was attacked by a dozen of Mexicans just because he is blond and very "Gringo" looking. He almost got killed. Still I don't hate Mexicans. I don't however visite Tijuana, the Mexican side, where in the morning body parts can usually litter some of the streets.

1) At the moment you feel that it's time to blame anyone, that defies the purpose.
2) The conflict is several hundred year old, not 10, the last 200-300 being the worst
(Ataman, 30 September 2009 20:59)

And your point is??? ...

Weren't you that were implying that K-Albanians haven't done enough to solve the conflict in compromising way? Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years, precisely what Serbia is offering now?

Or you just always need to have the last word.

I do not see, anyone made sufficient efforts in the conflict you mentioned to make both sides a winner
(Ataman, 30 September 2009 15:40)

10 years peaceful resistance under Rugova are more than a sufficient effort to resolve the conflict where both would be winners. Time to blame the other party.

The only scenario which would solve the conflict if both sides feel, that they won. If either side loses, that will ensure that the conflict is still there.
(Ataman, 30 September 2009 15:40)

So according you, we must fear that Germany will reclaim their terrorities (which were actually German since several 1000 of years)?

And with your arguments, we can say that they conflict doesn't last not only since 200-300 years, but at least 1400 years, ever since Slavic tribes invaded the Balkan peninsula. Or should we go farer back? Mesopotamian times?

Good posting, Demi, and I would like to add an interesting observation.

If there is a conflict, several outcome scenarios can happen. The only scenario which would solve the conflict if both sides feel, that they won. If either side loses, that will ensure that the conflict is still there. And at the very first opportunity when the losing side feels it is stronger now - it will try to turn the table over the former winner.

I do not see, anyone made sufficient efforts in the conflict you mentioned to make both sides a winner

Attitudes like yours, Miri, is why there will never be peace in the Balkans. You look through revengeful eyes, and that is blinding you with hatred. RIP, Brice.

Ataman thanks for your comment.


I think Serbia can win by recognizing the winner. Then Serbia could have a proud image on the historybook. It would have been the best possible outcome. By that then Serbia would have been a Eu-member and have less problems. Try to imagine wich problems serbs and the state of Serbia would have if Kosovo was inside their territory ? It would have been 'Good by' to EU and that would make Serbia a loser.

I cannot see two real winners in this conflict. It is independence or not. Serbia wanted Kosovo and the Kosovo population wanted independence from Serbia. One more time it is better to take the possible before the impossible.

"This denial is going on for the last 20 years and you can see the sad results...."
Joe

Serbs are in denial for the last 20 years but albanians and croats are in denial for the past 65. You never bring up the fact that you supported Hitler and comitted horrible crimes against Serbs.

By the way, what results are you talking about? Serbia just got white schengen. How is albania doing?

I just visited Belgrade for a week. I came in before the Gay Pride Parade and was there as it got canceled. BEFORE the Parade, I was on my way to Plato's to see a friend and was stopped by a university student asking if I wanted to buy a BITEF ticket. Cutting to the chase, we talked about the Parade and he immediately told me (not knowing the first thing about me) how he hated gay people and they deserved whatever they got. This was from an "educated" person.

I was stunned.

I love BG and this is my advice to Serbians: Wake up. And for Serbs as shocked as me--SPEAK out! Not just on this blog, but in public where it really counts. And not just tomorrow, but EVERY day. This is going to be a long haul.

Personally, I think the level of nationalism, gleeful hatred of the US, obsession with Kosovo and homophobia ARE connected: I believe this percentage of your country is living in fear, stuck in the past, and dragging the rest of you with them. If such people do not mirror your hopes for the future and opinions, you need to put your voice and energy into the arena. Otherwise, these sort of people become your worldwide representatives--like it or not. What else are people to think? I have even begun to wonder what the h*ll is going on? And it's not just because of the beatings and death (as horrifying as that is), it is the fact that not ONE thing changed in the last 8 years since the first parade attempt. That should scare everyone.

I have written to B-92 before and have a genuine interest, hope, and deep affection for Serbian people. This is why I write.

Weren't you that were implying that K-Albanians haven't done enough to solve the conflict in compromising way? Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years, precisely what Serbia is offering now?

Or you just always need to have the last word.
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

What K-albanians did to sort conflict peacefully? They declared independent state and formed parallel institution. They did not take part in election to overthrown Milosevic when Panic asked them. They just sticked to their own goal of independence without compromise. Milosevic was right man for you to gain independence. You can just spread your lies how life was difficult for you in Yugoslavia. You suffered under Milosevic, but you wanted to suffer in order to gain independence.

How many of you K Albanians felt as Yugoslav? None? Do you know when Yugoslavia died? On 03.09.1987 in Paracin. Aziz Kelmendi killed what was Yugoslavia. He killed 2 Bosnian Muslims, Croat and Serb. If you dont know about it read it h**p://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Para%C4%87in_massacre. And don't tell me that is just Serbian propaganda as I was there. I did not see what happened but I was in the same barracks.

Let us support peacefull and smart policies and not fall into the trap of hatred.
(bganon, 30 September 2009 12:00)

You said it all...

German pilot that was harasses and the helicopter assaults in Sweden by Serbian mafia. Perhaps Croatia would be a better choice for my work. They are much better there.
(Gunther, 30 September 2009 16:15)

You have the right to judge but with a little bit more knowledge and less newspaper reading you might see it from a different angle...
Good luck wherever you go

Joe,

Americans and preaching to others about violance or violant acts.What a joke.
Here is a list of school shootings http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting.
As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims.
Oh sorry are not they the two greedy countries who started the violance each time during the last century in the Balkans supporting some bandits who served their greedy expansionist plans and at the same time twisted the reality with their propagandist tools.

Americans and preaching to others about violance or violant acts.What a joke.
Here is a list of school shootings [link].
As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims.
Oh sorry are not they the two greedy countries who started the violance each time during the last century in the Balkans supporting some bandits who served their greedy expansionist plans and at the same time twisted the reality with their propagandist tools.
(szemi, 30 September 2009 20:2

Szemi,

Also add to your list the mob beating of a high school student to death in Chicago 2 days ago, the murder of an entire family of 5 in Florida last week, and yet another murder of another entire family in Missouri 2 weeks ago. These don't make much news because horrific crime in the US is so frequent I am sad to say. I am not one to trash Serbia and say my own country is much safer, and I still feel safer in Belgrade than in mist major US cities.

as usual this has turned into a slinging match between countrys . the real culprits here are the pathetic weak serbian police , mayor , and politicians that allow hooligans and extremists to control them instead of the other way around .
for gods sakes serbs , i thought you were stronger than this , stand up to these idiots and destroy them ...these far right morons are holding your country to ransom , where is you great pride now ?

Gunter - good move take your own advice and avoid Serbia. Far better to go to Croatia although I feel you should familiarise yourself with the recent xhenophobic attacks in that part of the slavic world. Better still avoid doing any slavic research... seems to me you have too many preconceptions that would invalidate any serious research.

of the beatings and death (as horrifying as that is), it is the fact that not ONE thing changed in the last 8 years since the first parade attempt. That should scare everyone.

I have written to B-92 before and have a genuine interest, hope, and deep affection for Serbian people. This is why I write.
(Charli, 30 September 2009 21:58)

Don't you think a bit exagerated to say that NO one thing has changed since the last parade.
If you are taking the parade as a bench mark, then you are right, but otherwise a bit short...
I'm not a fan of gays but accept and respect them because I was born and raised in a country where the history had already made his way.
I'm however sure that in certain region of Switzerland a parade would never be taking place, and this also has to be respected.

Certain sensitive issues needs time to be accepted and "digested" by the people
and to judge them according to the speed they do it is in my opinion the wrong since to do.

All I can add is that people have the right to their own opinion. People chucking a sad over whether individuals dislike gay pride parades and what not, grow up please. Hypocrisy at it's finest.

As long as it does not end in violence like this tragic incident people are entitled to think what they like.

On a sadder note, I think this situation is being manipulated and used to show Serbia trying to cry out to the world and say "Look at us! Look at how we punish these evil people, all peaceful and democratic like, our whole nation is mourning, we're cleaning up our image!" Sick and twisted man. Put the offenders in the jail, pay your respects and get on with it. Which Western country mourned for Serbian victims when NATO rained bombs on Serbia in 1999?

And with your arguments, we can say that they conflict doesn't last not only since 200-300 years, but at least 1400 years, ever since Slavic tribes invaded the Balkan peninsula. Or should we go farer back? Mesopotamian times?
(Berkeley, 30 September 2009 22:12)

Going back to Roman times is more than sufficient. Let's say, Calabria in Italy is named after Galabri.

Germany is not the best example - it wasn't unified till late 19th century. Much of their thinking is still tribal. Bavarians still regard Prussians as their main opponent, not the French or Poles.

Very good example are Koreans versus Japanese. That conflict is well over 2000 year old and the cost was rivers of blood. A quick look on the youtube will reveal, they hate each other more, than Albanians and Serbs. And there is no solution in sight.

On the other hand Galabri are still out there in Italy, they speak an archaic form of Albanian. There could be some little remains of Roman-Thraco/Illyrian conflict out there but not much, at least nothing compared with Japanese/Korean. Obviously, Romans and Galabri did a better job to settle the conflict.

It is amazing how moderators still letting comments (about Kosovo) which are not suppose to be under this post.

These hooliganism has to stop and i hope that it will be dealt with it in the most appropriate manner with maximum sentences.

Yes these are the same people who were protesting and burning American Embassy. Luckily not any foreigner was killed on that night.

However, Americans were not much concerned about events which occurred on the 17th of March 2004 in Kosovo.

US and UK has inflected lot of pain and suffering on Serbia in the last 15 years. I left Serbia 20 years ago and I was not under influence of Milosevic propaganda for all these years. I can not stand US for what they did to Serbia.

These hooligans were raised during war years. They did not have normal life like other children in US or Europe. They are accustomed to violence as this is the only thing they know. I am not trying to make excuses for what they did but their upbringing was in unusual circumstances.

"Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years"

They weren't exactly peaceful in those years - many went to fight in the Croatian and Bosnian wars. Additionally they went abroad to raise money - often in illegal businesses such as drug smuggling. They were preparing the KLA for those years.

And the Serbian police presence put a check on the violence enough until some of the Albanians fighting in Bosnia and Croatia came back - and with western support - to spark the war in Kosovo.

By the way my son was a crime victime in San Diego. He was attacked by a dozen of Mexicans just because he is blond and very "Gringo" looking. He almost got killed. Still I don't hate Mexicans. I don't however visite Tijuana, the Mexican side, where in the morning body parts can usually litter some of the streets.
(Joe, 30 September 2009 21:45)

It is interesting that you point out who the perpetratotrs were. They are Mexicans so basically foreigners are always to blame as the ones who commit crime in America. Is that right gringo? Not only in America everywhere else. For e.g. I live in Finland and they always blame foreigners for crimes committed. When Finn attack foreigner (happens much often than in Serbia) then excuse is that he was drunk. Black friend from University was beaten by baseball bat because he had white Finnish girl. He was in comma for 11 days but he survived. He does does not like Finns nor you like Mexicans.

bganon -- i appreciate yr posting here, and those of all who have come out against violence and intolerance.

without naming names, i've always been serious when i've said: if some of us can at least speak civily here, w/ one another, then there really is some hope. if not, that is a really bad sign.

Peace train has to start somewhere.

robert-0

"As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims."
(szemi, 30 September 2009 20:2

- What are you talking about!? Serbia as a whole is smaller than the total sq.mileage of Florida marshes and have you thought about the fact that the US has more than 310 million people, compared to Serbia's 7m!? Clearly not! Please, give me a break with your idiotic comparisons.

"Szemi,

Also add to your list the mob beating of a high school student to death in Chicago 2 days ago, the murder of an entire family of 5 in Florida last week, and yet another murder of another entire family in Missouri 2 weeks ago."

- Why don't you add the last 20 years of continuous violence towards it's neighbors to Serbia while you're at it. Oh and there are court judgments and preceding's to back it up too. All resulting in more than 250,000 deaths and 3m+ refugees. Yeah, real safe Serbia hahahaha!

"As you can see US is far the leader and germans are the second regarding the total number of victims."
(szemi, 30 September 2009 20:2

- What are you talking about!? Serbia as a whole is smaller than the total sq.mileage of Florida marshes and have you thought about the fact that the US has more than 310 million people, compared to Serbia's 7m!? Clearly not! Please, give me a break with your idiotic comparisons.

Alem, 2 October 2009 00:56)

Well mister before teaching and preaching and categorizing other's opinion think twice(I know logic and arguments are not part of albanian culture and way of thinking as opposed to childish and histeric outburst)Bottom line :even if you check those numbers of school shooting victims per 100 000 inhabitans(usually this number is statisticly used when it comes to number of suicide and homicide victims ) you will find that americans and germans are among leaders of the list while serbs and most others from central and south east europe are nowhere in this cathegory.As to general homicide rate(victims per 100 000 inhabitants) you will find 4 times higher number of victims both in albania and USA as compared to Serbia.So please next time do not lecture me on statistics and proportions.Your answer to Jason is however even more childish since all this topic is about crime rate during peace time and not wars.

I can't describe with words how sorry I am for Brice Taton and his family. I'm disgusted by this cowardly act. Unfortunately it's not the first time Partizan "fans" cause trouble. I don't understand how we Serbs can allow them to cause problems time and time again. Countless times have I read how they attack people, may it be a during a game in Serbia or elswhere in Europe. Our incompetence to stop these hooligans in the first place have contributed to the death of Brice, since these hooligans have been able to continue with their deeds, more or less, unpunished. Even though a few people were directly responsible for this act the Serbian government and we as a people have to take some responsibility as well. However, it's to bad it had to come to this before we react and finaly do something about these criminals.

Brice, may you rest in peace and may your family get the justice they deserve!

I was born in Belgrade and have always been proud of my town and its citizens. Belgrade has always welcomed everybody. It's a pity that a minority of worthless criminals try to spoil its reputation but luckily they are a minority! I am deeply sorry for the family of the young, innocent boy whose life was much more precious than of his killers.

10 years peaceful resistance under Rugova are more than a sufficient effort to resolve the conflict where both would be winners. Time to blame the other party.
(miri, 30 September 2009 16:45)

1) At the moment you feel that it's time to blame anyone, that defies the purpose.
2) The conflict is several hundred year old, not 10, the last 200-300 being the worst

roberto says..."if some of us can at least speak civily here, w/ one another, then there really is some hope."

As it is said, "Hypocrisy is a tribute vice pays to virtue."

I read an interesting piece that included...

"The hypocrite, while choosing vice, recognizes that virtue is in fact better, if not for him, and assumes its appearance. When we characterize the hypocrite as dishonest, we must recognize what he is dishonest about: not about good and evil, but only about himself."

It is quite clear why people see you are as hypocritical.

The French guy Brice Taton while fleeing from the fight, jumped from the top of the garages on Obilicev Venac and fell on his head. Had he not jumped he would be alive as his friends. He died from the consequences of the 10m fall, not the beating!

Everyone who kills someone deserves to answer for it, however in this case there was no intent, period.

Has anyone on behalf of France sent an apology for the 3000 dead, or at least Milica Rakic?

I see no reason why anyone in Serbia should feel any responsibility.

It goes without saying that I deeply regret the death of Brice Taton and support this peace march. This time I think the hooligans will hide their faces in shame.

But let me put the cat among the piegons (while maintaining respectful tone for the memory of Taton):

When I was on the Kosovo protest, watching the US embassy burning, watching shops get smashed up etc much of that violence was various Partizan (and to lesser extent Zvezda) hooligan groups. I saw group leaders literally instructing the kids what to do - as they do in stadiums.

My question is, is it any wonder that when acts of violence carried out are condoned by sections of society (in the name of Kosovo) that young men (or hooligans) are confused about what is right and what is wrong?

Similar is true for events of October 5th.

One of the things they tell us about good parenting is to not give our children confused messages. Violence is ok in the name of Kosovo, its ok to take out your energy by beating up gays etc. And yet the other 'parent' - society says the law must be respected and that violence is a crime.

Let me be clear - either violence is ok or it is not. In my opinion it is not and it is my opinion that those kids are being failed both by their parents and by Serbian society who are sending them mixed messages about what is ok and what is right.

So let us not pretend that this isn't also our fault for sending these hooligans mixed messages, it is. They are a product of what they see around them.

Let us support peacefull and smart policies and not fall into the trap of hatred.

While I'm not sure how the attack on Brice was somehow related to Kosovo, I do agree with bganon and Demi in their assessment of people being coaxed into committing crimes by higher ups, all in the name of some warped view of national pride. And this could apply to anyone, anywhere, including the United States.

These criminals who are now charged with murder could not have orchestrated such a planned attack without being coordinated by someone above them. Football hooligans do NOT have that time of skill on their own. What I really hope is that while these criminals get the punishment they deserve, they do not become the proverbial "fall guys" to take the blame while the ones who planned the attack remain in the shadows. Or in the government. Or, God forbid, in the Church.

You don't have to remind me about crime in the US or bring it up as an excuse for crimes in Serbia. Crimes in Serbia can't be excused just because "they exist in the US too".
(Joe, 30 September 2009 21:45)

Joe something like sense of proportion is a very important thing, in life .It is some americans who started calling Serbia a dangeruos place after some incidents without any knowlage of reality.Even if such incidents repeated themselves on weekly bases Serbia would be statisticly less dangourous than most parts of USA and the past proved that these incidents do not happen there regularly as opposed to US or even many parts in HUngary .AS a partial inhabitant of Hungary and POland and frequent traveller to both US and Serbia I can declare that Serbia is far the safest and my view is shared by many other toiurists and visitors as well as international statistics while US is among the most dangerous.I had two similar incidents to that of your son.One happened in Brookly when I was on my way to polish qurter in Green Point when some black guys attacked me while the other one In Marakesh(Morocco).The incidents which recantly happened in BG are in media simply because they are generally very rare over there.So talking about crimes in Serbia is as if we started a talk about ice hockey in Tanzania.None of them is significant phenomenon Too much fuss about nothing.But of corse some moral preachers from US have appeared at once.It reminds me hungarian proverb "Bagoly mondja Verébnek ,hogy nagyfejû"(the owl tells the sparrow that it has a big head)

don't hate Mexicans. I don't however visite Tijuana, the Mexican side, where in the morning body parts can usually litter some of the streets.
(Joe, 30 September 2009 21:45)

Nobody is trying to find an excuse to cover this tragic event, but let's face the reality, the violence is unfortunately everywhere.

As you truly said you don't blame all Mexicans for what happend to your son, so why do you continuousely blame all Serbian people, accusing them of denial.
I have been travelling the all region for the last 6 years and believe it or not, Serbia remains for me the most welcoming and safest place by far.

By coincidence I was in Belgrade today and participated to the
Peace march and I was deeply touched seeing all these people paying tribute to Brice and being so angry at those criminals. I don't remember having seeing such a spontenaous movement.

Boban...

Since you brought up Kelmendi...I did some reading too:

http://books.google.com/books?id=2f3Azk0sCDYC&pg=PA145&lpg=PA145&dq=aziz+kelmendi+paracin&source=bl&ots=zN7YfOJwWS&sig=OSfAm2paTfO8GRTOHm1NO0wf_tw&hl=en&ei=jBTFStGOA5SY8Aaq88g3&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=3#v=onepage&q=aziz%20kelmendi%20paracin&f=false

Bganon.. You have spoken true words of wisdom. I am glad to see such an outpouring of support for Brice. and so we know How he died and and somehow without knowing him I feel close to the situation and would like to know how "he lived" bganon you hit it right on the dot there. I agree with every word you wrote. What messages are we sending to our children. In the end you wonder what kind of parent did these children have? It is clear either violence is right or it is wrong.. There cant be no gray area in this.. as you can see this is a result of just that. For example not to long ago a lesbian was beat up on a thew trolly and everyone stood bye and did nothing. just one example of people turning there face to a problem. no one there to stand for basic human rights. when does minding your own business stop and doing the right thing start?Let this be a wakeup call to all parents, and all young teenagers and young adults. Serbia needs change and indeed a life was paid for here, but I hope not in vein. And what words could anyone give to his parents in such a time as "Sorry" could not even begin to repay what they have lost..there son. This is a defining moment for Serbia..for the government who only stands up and is selective when it suits oneself. how many times have officers let things go unpunished with a slip of a few dollars and how many government officials can say they have not accepted bribes to push there agenda through.. I personally think its all linked together. from bad parenting to a broken dysfunctional society. Let me be clear not all of serbia is like this. There are people Rich in morals, Character and class that abide here in serbia and those are the people that are the heart of serbia. Time to stop this dysfunctional thinking, Move foward with accountability on all levels. Civil, Society, law and the public anad most important at HOME. No more slaps on the wrist for violent behavior. A country is a reflection of its people. Can Serbia learn from this and cut the politics out and update violent laws against hate crimes, harassment. Be flexible and welcoming for instance the love parade and not let fear run rapid in every politicians seat. or is some organizations interests stronger then freedom of speech? Have a sound mind in the mist of unreason, panic and anger. Be the voce of a fair and strong government that is solid paving the way to a diverse functional modern society. Because there is a right and wrong here. Its time TO Take a look at the entire problem with a fresh set of new eyes. I encourage people that are in place of leadership, act now to make the difference or why else be in the position you are in if not to help your people?

And your point is??? ...

Weren't you that were implying that K-Albanians haven't done enough to solve the conflict in compromising way?
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

Ah, now I do see why the hard feelings. No, I wasn't blaming K-Albanians at all, rather the international community and that this conflict went as far as it did.
Please do not over-react and don't assume immediately a defensive stand if there is no offense intent. If not sure, better ask simply because of language barrier.

--------

Weren't K-Albanians asking peacefully for 10 years, precisely what Serbia is offering now?
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

The timing during autistic than-president of Serbia wasn't perfect. Unfortunately Rugova had bad luck.

--------

Or you just always need to have the last word.
(miri, 30 September 2009 21:44)

You welcome to say the last.

Maximum sentence for premeditated murder should be life, not 40 years.

I hope his death wont be in vain, something good will come out of it.... I am sure..

Excellent post bganon, a message that could apply to the whole world.

bGanon is right - there is a small group of sick, evil people who are behind the hooligan violence happening in the last few years.

Even though they may not have committed the actual crimes, these instigators should be caught and given the harshest of prison sentences.

These sick types of goading instigators are not common to Serbia, they exist in all countries. They take pleasure in the thrill of directing others to commit acts of violence and feed on the misery of others.

this act of hooliganism=act poltic may be used agaisnt on liberalization of viza ?? WHY french citizen ?? and few houres later the declaration of mr Kuchner west balkans belong in EU??? simple coincidence:) or right moment

Now that the thug-hooligans have been charged have their names and ages been released?

Serbia is in mourning... God give Taton’s family the strength they need in this tragic moment. Rest in peace Brice...