Anti-violence march announced in Belgrade

Let's hope people from all political persuasions attend this rally. I believe absolutely that Kosovo is part of Serbia and that Serbia is right to make every effort to defend its sovereignty. I also believe that foreign football supporters have the right to enjoy a beer in the sun without being murdered. The two issues are not related and should never be. Svi na trg!

Were I in Belgrade, I would have attended the march.

I visited Belgrade and Serbia two years ago and was impressed and recommended that people visit and make up their own minds as many people still have negative impressions of Serbia and Serbs - justly or not, that's how it is.

Tragic incidents like the death of Brice Taton will only keep people from coming to Serbia. I won't consider coming back until I can see a firm response from the government to tackle those responsible and make the streets of Belgrade safe again. These people and their intolerance and hate, make it harder to be a friend of Serbia.

My friends in Serbia have been telling me they how they feel and the general mood in the city from their perspective. They aren’t saying it could happen anywhere - whether it could or not. They are ashamed and deeply upset. There is a feeling of hopelessness.

I truly believe in the people in that city. I have received great hospitality in the past. I know there is strength in these people. And they can make a difference. They can send a message to the thugs that it is their city and it is their streets. They can show their numbers. They can show compassion, sorrow and respect for the loss of the tragic mans life.

The good and normal people can make a difference. To everyone who can attend tomorrow, please go and show the world the real Belgrade

Hooliganism is present in every nation - it is just more painful when horrible acts committed by this vermin are your own people. I will work hard to promote tolerance towards others in any way I can. Belgrade is a safe and friendly city. It is unfortunate that horrific acts such as this murder have to occur before people open their eyes. This small, but evil element, must be cleansed by the good and peace loving citizens of Belgrade.

Mike, Ataman, If everything goes right I'll be tomorrow in Belgrade and will lighten candles for you too and for all having that wish!

And for the people having some doubts about Belgrade's safety, I guess I have been visiting more or less 180 MAIN cities in the all world
and Belgrade still remains for me one of the safest.

A similar tragic event happened last week in Lausanne and a younster was stabbed for no reason by a few hot headed.
Read any daily newspapers in Europe you will certainly find similar events happening all around.

We are unfortunately leaving in a world where the violence is on the increase at every level and there is unfortunately so little the society can do, let alone the politicians!
Any harsh political reaction will appease our conscience but will unfortunately never give 100% security that this will not happen again!
Peace to all

Sometimes it may not look that way, but Serbia is actually a much better place than the existence of these thugs might suggest.

There are lots of good people who love Serbia but hate those who hate.

Those good people apologise to the victims of attacks and to the families of those who have died.

To the thugs - get out; you are not wanted.

I agree with comments made here earlier – Belgrade is a wonderfully friendly city and I know that the vast majority of her citizens are shocked and disgusted. I’ve visited Belgrade many, many times since my partner is Serb but we live in UK (I’m not Serb).) I also agree that acts of violence occur everywhere.
However I think the peace march is needed for a number of reasons. The organised right/extreme nationalists seemed to have been allowed to get away with their hate filled actions and one can’t help feeling that they are setting and winning the agenda. Most politicians are not standing up to this unequivocally. With Belgrade Pride, violence won and so the march didn’t go ahead. Again, political, civic and religious leaders failed to condemn the acts/threats of violence in an unequivocal manner. The longstanding Kosovo issue has allowed some to harbour a belief that “westerners” are the enemy. Again, political and religious leaders are weak and don’t or won’t use their influence to stop vile anti west movement. Citizens, (especially minorities) need to feel 100% certain that their police, their politicians and their civic leaders will stand up for them against the nasty thugs and extreme nationalists. I’m not sure that they feel protected any more.
We speak to our family and friends in Belgrade almost every day. What they want is that the world sees them for what they are – hospitable, generous and friendly people. The peace march will give them – the peaceful majority – the opportunity to stand up and be counted. They need to take back their city and show the world that there is no place in Serbia for thugs and extreme nationalists. They need to be proud again of their great city. Not for the first time in history, the people will demand better from their leaders. I sincerely hope the people’s voice will be heard all over the world.

Peace and respect to all my Belgrade friends

To bad, it's on a short notice for tomorrow, otherwise would drive these 200 miles.

Not even a statement from the Serbian Orthodox Church? Being a religion of peace and all they must lead the condemnations.

This is a shameful act committed by beasts. Like 99.99% of all Serbs, we condemn this murder and express our sympthy to the family. May God have mercy on his innocent soul.

I hope that Serbian courts move quickly and forcefully to ensure these animals the harshest of terms.

These hooligans were considered "heroes" in Oct. 2000 by the western press.

I spent a month in Belgrade. The city is the most beautiful I've ever visited and the people the most hospitable and friendly. This is a random act by a few hooligans. The fact that Belgrade is organizing an anti-violence march speaks volumes about the people and the city. Were this to happen elsewhere in Europe (and it has), such a march would likely not be organized. RIP Brice Taton, Ranko Panic and all victims of senseless violence. Long live Belgrade, the greatest city in the world!

"Mike, Ataman, If everything goes right I'll be tomorrow in Belgrade and will lighten candles for you too and for all having that wish!"

-- Thanks Swiss, I'd certainly appreciate it.

I am so sorry that he has died, so sad, and so angry too. yes, there is violence "everywhere" with sometimes similar, sometimes quite specific and distinct roots and manifestations. but this kind of hate and violence has been all too often reinforced, instead of condemned.

my frnd and i were just speaking about going to blgd in dec., but obviously we cannot be there tomorrow; otherwise we would join the PEACE marchers there, just as i have so many times w frnds here.

it is just the right thing to do, and i applaud those who are organizing it, and who will participate.

to the french victim, r.i.p.

robert-o

Let's hope people from all political persuasions attend this rally. I believe absolutely that Kosovo is part of Serbia and that Serbia is right to make every effort to defend its sovereignty. I also believe that foreign football supporters have the right to enjoy a beer in the sun without being murdered. The two issues are not related and should never be. Svi na trg!
(Dave, 29 September 2009 16:31)

Here we go again. What does Kosova has to do with this tragic incident, which ocurred in Belgrade and I am glad a peacefull march has been orginized???

The incidents which happened are very sad indeed and must be condemned.However despite this I know exactly what I will do on november the 27th this year.In the morning I will buy a Budapest-Beograd round trip train ticket for 26 euroes and at 11pm leave for Beograd from Keleti railway station in order to attend that weekend Zvezda-Partizan derby sitting in the middle of Marakana Sever .I am sure that I will enjoy that weekend as well as all the others I have spent in Beograd althoug this time due to season perhaps I will not race on autokomerc gokart track or play 3 on 3 waterpolo with my serb friends but there are so many other things to do and you can always enjoy good company and food over there.Well something may happen to me like to those attacked tourists.The chances are almost as big as being attacked by shark in Baltic Sea.Ok
if 3 or 4 incidents of this kind happened on weekly basis then BG could be statisticly considered as a dangerous city.However this is far from being true although some albanian Panic mongrels who have not the smallest idea about statistics(I doubt that even basic mathematics is taught in that drawback country) would like to suggest .

Dave, i hope you attend the peace march.

As per Kosovo, keep supporting it but dont use the word "westener" as a synonym for people who support the independence and you must admit that firstly if foreigners are handled this way, what would they do to Kosovo if they got an open border? And secondly if you threaten to kill your own kind, be it may in a gay parade. what would the fate of Kosovo be in a day of a strike? Send in the tanks?

This violence is not comparable with the peace that we would have now if there was a strong enough leader in Serbia who accapted Kosovo back in the 90's.

I hope extremists see a good willed crowed who can overpowerwith goodness and love

the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???
(Joe, 29 September 2009 19:54)

Don't you worry, last week a youngster was stabbed for no reason in a park in Lausanne, no march was organized, unfortunately business as usual...
Violence has no nationality, no border, no limits...

I don't want to sound cynical but I am just wondering...if the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???

I will most certanly attend the march against violence, that's the least I can do as a citizen of Serbia and a citizen of Belgrade which has always welcomed foreign people and such a brutal act of murder must be most severely punished. We, the citizens of Serbia, demand it. We want a free country where evryone can walk safely where ever they come from and feel ashamed for this vandalism.

Thanks, Swiss, it is appreciated. Very sad occasion, indeed.

I am really sorry, I need to ask the company in the States every time if I want to travel and because of 9 hour time difference it's simply not enough time left.

Hey Roberto, I'll be on the march for the city I love. You,on the other hand, can keep your hating to yourself. No one believes your crocodile tears.

Here we go again. What does Kosova has to do with this tragic incident, which ocurred in Belgrade and I am glad a peacefull march has been orginized???
(Kosova-USA, 29 September 2009 18:14)

Yes, indeed, because bad habits die hard and even we, (ex)-"gastarbajteri" from other countries learn the bad habits from both sides quickly.

Let's strike a deal. Since neither you or me can attend tomorrow the protest because of timing - let's make a fair deal instead, in spirit of the gathering we can't attend.

I will write only pro-Albanian things in next four weeks, you will write pro-Serbian things only.

I don't have ulcer (knock-knock), do not want to develop any and wish you the same.

I don't want to sound cynical but I am just wondering...if the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???
(Joe, 29 September 2009 19:54)

"Balsors akit régen tép"(those who are doomed for long time(a line from hungarian anthem).Joe seems that despite becoming good american you have taken some typical pessimism.It is high time hungarians got rid of this mentality if they do not want to be all time loosers since Mohács.
It is not true at all that hungarians are hated everywhere and respected less that a westerner for example.If there is a march when a hungarian is killed we will have to wait perhaps before a grobar shoots me but the chances are low (I would be completly satisfied if delije organized a coreography with my picture).I regularly travel to Beograd as well as other cities around Hungary to watch local derbies together with some of my hungarian friends and only thing we encounter everywhere is endless hospitality and terrific atmosphere.If you do not provoke people and play "the great hungarian" like many hungarians in ski resorts in neighbouring countries disguising anyway their unnecesary inferiority complexes you can expect nice treatment everywhere.Anyway Zvezda-Partizan derby is always visited by hundreds of hungarians from Vojvodina and dozens from Hungary yet so far to my best knowlage none of them was harmed.If you read articals from Hirkeresõ.hu you may get a manipulated picture.For example when a hungarian is slapped in the face in Vojvodina or Slovakia it imidiatelly becomes an article ,but when a gypsy kills a hungarian in Hungary for most out of politcal correctness it is ignored.This has an aim to make hungarians feel that they are not at home in hungary while at the same time are hated abroad and therefor are a doomed nation.

These people and their intolerance and hate, make it harder to be a friend of Serbia.
(Ciaran O Donnell, 29 September 2009 16:16)

Too bad you feel that way.
Why do you allow a few thugs, which are in every city of every country, to make it hard to be a friend of Serbia?

Come to Melbourne and I will guarantee you will become anti Australian if you judge a country by the actions of few. Melbourne has become a very unsafe city after midnight and yet the government is not doing much at all about it. Most locals would not dream of going into some parts of the city in the early hours. Many tourists have been attacked and killed here and yet I would not judge this country by the actions of few idiots.

Hey Roberto, I'll be on the march for the city I love. You,on the other hand, can keep your hating to yourself. No one believes your crocodile tears.
(Dave, 29 September 2009 22:37)

Dave, I barely remember a case when I would agree with Roberto or, say, Kosova-USA about politics.

However, our policy in the family is, that we keep political disagreements away from our personal life.

Suggest everyone to follow it, keeps certain form of ulcers away and saves medical bills.

Szemi,

I realize I was not clear enough in my remark. I ment nothing pesimistic or specifically Hungarian. I am not that type.
What I ment is that Serbs are smart and they realized that the killing of a French, the citizen of a key EU country gave them a very bad image. It gave more "negative exposure" than the killing of let say a Hungarian would give. In case of a Hungarian many would have said that he provoked his attackers. There would have been no peace march. What happened I would call "selective outpooring of sentiments" because of the nationality of the victime and the eagerness to trying to correct the bad image.
What I really found touching and very human early this year was the very sincere outpooring of sentiments and sympathy in Veszprem, Hungary following the killing of a beloved Romanian basketball player.

it's tragic that he died but it's also important not to blow this out of proportion... a fight broke out and as it often happens adrenalin takes the better of ppl - im sure his attackers didn't intend to kill this guy from the very beginning...

my frnd and i were just speaking about going to blgd in dec.
robert-o
(roberto, 29 September 2009 20:41)

Don't forget to ask Mishatours-dot-com about airplane ticket prices. We found his prices difficult to beat by wide margin. They are in El Cajon, CA.

And as you may note, I am with "gmail-dot-com" now because "me-dot-com" is not as reliable.

I don't want to sound cynical but I am just wondering...if the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???
(Joe, 29 September 2009 19:54)
--
How about if the victim was a Serbian in Pristina? Would our ethnic-Albanian citizens be celebrating instead?

Not even a statement from the Serbian Orthodox Church? Being a religion of peace and all they must lead the condemnations.
(arTa, 29 September 2009 18:14)

Do you ever get tired of finding ways to blame Serbs and Serbian church for everything that goes wrong?

Let's see now. Elderly Serbs have been getting murdered in Kosovo for a long time now, but I have not heard one word of sympathy from the mosques there. Do you have the same condemnation for them too?

This is a sad occasion and most normal people's thoughts are with the victim and his family not looking at ways to condemn the church.
Belgrade and it's people are doing the right thing in getting together and condemning this horrible crime. When caught, these criminals should be put away for a very long time. Anything else would not be justice.

ataman -- thanks, good air prices are hard to find...

Hey Roberto, I'll be on the march for the city I love. You,on the other hand, can keep your hating to yourself. No one believes your crocodile tears.
(Dave, 29 September 2009 22:37)

well said Dave. What a pity its at short notice I would have gone myself but many thanks to the posters who will be there. Show the scumbags what you think of them.

I have been to Belgrade and Serbia many times and I have got to say its my favourite place. I am struck by the hospitality of the Serbian people and anywhere i'm abroad i always go out of my way to find a Serbian cafe/bar or restaurant to meet Serbs where i'm always welcome.

Ciaran, my fellow Irishman, leave your prejudices about Serbia at the door. The actions of a bunch of hooligans should not be used as a stick to beat the Serbian nation with. In fact I feel more safer in Belgrade than I do in Dublin and Belgrade is twice as big.

Ciaran, do you know that last weekend there was a spate of stabbings and in Dublin and Tralee which resulted in 3 fatalities yet I hear no one considering not visiting or boycotting Ireland.

On another note last weekend in Waterford (my hometown) city centre was akin to a warzone, assaults, stabbings and general drunken behaviour.

ataman -- thanks, good air prices are hard to find...
(roberto, 30 September 2009 04:11)

We used Misha's help for years. He is JAT consolidator and sells the consolidator tickets, way below on-line prices.

Typically, that involves a large (Atlantic) stretch flown on Virgin Atlantic till London and connecting to JAT from London to Belgrade.

The total San Francisco-London-Belgrade round-trip from Mishatours is typically few hundred Dollars LESS than the cheapest San Francisco-London-San Francisco round-trip you can find on Virgin Atlantic on-line.

It is not somewhat they advertise, of course. Also interestingly, flying to Budapest that way (i.e. to BG first than taking the train) is cheaper, than any direct flight and connection is fine.

In any case be prepared for some unusual weather conditions because lately both winters and summers are abnormal in the area lately.

Flying back with Virgin / JAT combo usually involves an overnight stay in London. If you do not like that, you can ask Misha for Lufthansa or Air India.

Also be prepared, Virgin / JAT combo can be paid by cash (check is OK), not credit card because of very thin margin. You can of course combine Virgin with JAT on-line and use a C/C, plus get miles - but I rather pay good $500 less by check. Checks are safe with Mishatours. Misha will accept credit card for Lufthansa ticket, but it is usually 200 Dollar more.

What I really found touching and very human early this year was the very sincere outpooring of sentiments and sympathy in Veszprem, Hungary following the killing of a beloved Romanian basketball player.
(Joe, 30 September 2009 15:56)

Joe,

Although it makes no difference but Cozma was a handball player.Otherwise that case shows the differnce between hungarian and serb+croat mentality very well.That entartainment facility was full of 300 hungarians yet only Pesic the croat guy and two serbs (Sesum+Vilovski) dared to help the romanian guy http://www.kezilabda.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=807:uros-vilovski-hstette&catid=42:budapest-bank-ferfi-liga&Itemid=149 As to your analysis and suggestion that the whole march is organized just because the victim was from a leading EU country is a total nonse a primitive speculation without ground where you again try to express your well known anti-ortodox sentiment trying to portray serbs as counting people while hungarians as sentimental ones Serbs driven by their pride,backbone and heart sacrified a lot against europe's inside and outside enemies while hungarians at last after kiegyezés(1867) unfortunatelly lost backbone and sided with those enemies (Habsburgs,Hitler ,New World Order)thinking that they bet on the right horse which always in the end turned to be false.So after Kiegyezés hungarians were always driven by counting (on top of all that bad one)and not sentimental except for 1956.

Joe,

And just one more thing.I took part in that commemoration march in Veszprém before the CL match against Leon.Well besides hungarian I heard many people speak either croatian or serb .In fact many hungarians begged serbs to take a revange on murderers.And as to team MKB Veszprém it was the goalkeeper Peric who kept the body and soul of that team together in the most difficult moments doing his best on and off the field.He is simply a god in Veszprém:father,brother,goalie psychologist and coach at the same time. http://sport.hirekneked.hu/perics-a-csodakapus.html

Ataman,

KLM and AIR FRANCE jointly often offer BP-Frisco between 110 000-150 000 FT (420€-550 €)Donno if it can compate with your prices but maybe you could check them.
In July I went BP-New york for 83 000 FT(320 €) round trip but it was last minute.

Szemi,

Flying to USA is always less than the other way. The tariff is very asymmetric.

Same about the trains, too. Budapest-Vienna-Budapest is between 26 and 29 Euro, but if you start from Vienna, it will be significantly more.

And there is more, of course. For some "mysterious" reason if you travel from Devinska Nova Ves (Slovakia) to Manchzhuria (Chinese border), the price of the round-trip ticket is about 170 Euro or so. But if you travel from Marchegg (Austria) which is only few km from Devinska Nova Ves, the price is more than double.

Or why does Nickelsdorf-Hegyeshalom-Belgrade round-trip cost 106.80 Euro while Hegyeshalom-Belgrade-Hegyeshalom is 39.36 Euro?

(Hegyeshalom is only 6 km from Nickelsdorf, but is in Hungary, Nickelsdorf is in Austria)

Not even a statement from the Serbian Orthodox Church? Being a religion of peace and all they must lead the condemnations.

Dave, i hope you attend the peace march.

As per Kosovo, keep supporting it but dont use the word "westener" as a synonym for people who support the independence and you must admit that firstly if foreigners are handled this way, what would they do to Kosovo if they got an open border? And secondly if you threaten to kill your own kind, be it may in a gay parade. what would the fate of Kosovo be in a day of a strike? Send in the tanks?

This violence is not comparable with the peace that we would have now if there was a strong enough leader in Serbia who accapted Kosovo back in the 90's.

I hope extremists see a good willed crowed who can overpowerwith goodness and love

it's tragic that he died but it's also important not to blow this out of proportion... a fight broke out and as it often happens adrenalin takes the better of ppl - im sure his attackers didn't intend to kill this guy from the very beginning...

I don't want to sound cynical but I am just wondering...if the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???

Let's hope people from all political persuasions attend this rally. I believe absolutely that Kosovo is part of Serbia and that Serbia is right to make every effort to defend its sovereignty. I also believe that foreign football supporters have the right to enjoy a beer in the sun without being murdered. The two issues are not related and should never be. Svi na trg!
(Dave, 29 September 2009 16:31)

Here we go again. What does Kosova has to do with this tragic incident, which ocurred in Belgrade and I am glad a peacefull march has been orginized???

Hey Roberto, I'll be on the march for the city I love. You,on the other hand, can keep your hating to yourself. No one believes your crocodile tears.

The incidents which happened are very sad indeed and must be condemned.However despite this I know exactly what I will do on november the 27th this year.In the morning I will buy a Budapest-Beograd round trip train ticket for 26 euroes and at 11pm leave for Beograd from Keleti railway station in order to attend that weekend Zvezda-Partizan derby sitting in the middle of Marakana Sever .I am sure that I will enjoy that weekend as well as all the others I have spent in Beograd althoug this time due to season perhaps I will not race on autokomerc gokart track or play 3 on 3 waterpolo with my serb friends but there are so many other things to do and you can always enjoy good company and food over there.Well something may happen to me like to those attacked tourists.The chances are almost as big as being attacked by shark in Baltic Sea.Ok
if 3 or 4 incidents of this kind happened on weekly basis then BG could be statisticly considered as a dangerous city.However this is far from being true although some albanian Panic mongrels who have not the smallest idea about statistics(I doubt that even basic mathematics is taught in that drawback country) would like to suggest .

Szemi,

I realize I was not clear enough in my remark. I ment nothing pesimistic or specifically Hungarian. I am not that type.
What I ment is that Serbs are smart and they realized that the killing of a French, the citizen of a key EU country gave them a very bad image. It gave more "negative exposure" than the killing of let say a Hungarian would give. In case of a Hungarian many would have said that he provoked his attackers. There would have been no peace march. What happened I would call "selective outpooring of sentiments" because of the nationality of the victime and the eagerness to trying to correct the bad image.
What I really found touching and very human early this year was the very sincere outpooring of sentiments and sympathy in Veszprem, Hungary following the killing of a beloved Romanian basketball player.

I visited Belgrade and Serbia two years ago and was impressed and recommended that people visit and make up their own minds as many people still have negative impressions of Serbia and Serbs - justly or not, that's how it is.

Tragic incidents like the death of Brice Taton will only keep people from coming to Serbia. I won't consider coming back until I can see a firm response from the government to tackle those responsible and make the streets of Belgrade safe again. These people and their intolerance and hate, make it harder to be a friend of Serbia.

Let's hope people from all political persuasions attend this rally. I believe absolutely that Kosovo is part of Serbia and that Serbia is right to make every effort to defend its sovereignty. I also believe that foreign football supporters have the right to enjoy a beer in the sun without being murdered. The two issues are not related and should never be. Svi na trg!

the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???
(Joe, 29 September 2009 19:54)

Don't you worry, last week a youngster was stabbed for no reason in a park in Lausanne, no march was organized, unfortunately business as usual...
Violence has no nationality, no border, no limits...

Mike, Ataman, If everything goes right I'll be tomorrow in Belgrade and will lighten candles for you too and for all having that wish!

And for the people having some doubts about Belgrade's safety, I guess I have been visiting more or less 180 MAIN cities in the all world
and Belgrade still remains for me one of the safest.

A similar tragic event happened last week in Lausanne and a younster was stabbed for no reason by a few hot headed.
Read any daily newspapers in Europe you will certainly find similar events happening all around.

We are unfortunately leaving in a world where the violence is on the increase at every level and there is unfortunately so little the society can do, let alone the politicians!
Any harsh political reaction will appease our conscience but will unfortunately never give 100% security that this will not happen again!
Peace to all

Here we go again. What does Kosova has to do with this tragic incident, which ocurred in Belgrade and I am glad a peacefull march has been orginized???
(Kosova-USA, 29 September 2009 18:14)

Yes, indeed, because bad habits die hard and even we, (ex)-"gastarbajteri" from other countries learn the bad habits from both sides quickly.

Let's strike a deal. Since neither you or me can attend tomorrow the protest because of timing - let's make a fair deal instead, in spirit of the gathering we can't attend.

I will write only pro-Albanian things in next four weeks, you will write pro-Serbian things only.

I don't have ulcer (knock-knock), do not want to develop any and wish you the same.

I don't want to sound cynical but I am just wondering...if the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???
(Joe, 29 September 2009 19:54)

"Balsors akit régen tép"(those who are doomed for long time(a line from hungarian anthem).Joe seems that despite becoming good american you have taken some typical pessimism.It is high time hungarians got rid of this mentality if they do not want to be all time loosers since Mohács.
It is not true at all that hungarians are hated everywhere and respected less that a westerner for example.If there is a march when a hungarian is killed we will have to wait perhaps before a grobar shoots me but the chances are low (I would be completly satisfied if delije organized a coreography with my picture).I regularly travel to Beograd as well as other cities around Hungary to watch local derbies together with some of my hungarian friends and only thing we encounter everywhere is endless hospitality and terrific atmosphere.If you do not provoke people and play "the great hungarian" like many hungarians in ski resorts in neighbouring countries disguising anyway their unnecesary inferiority complexes you can expect nice treatment everywhere.Anyway Zvezda-Partizan derby is always visited by hundreds of hungarians from Vojvodina and dozens from Hungary yet so far to my best knowlage none of them was harmed.If you read articals from Hirkeresõ.hu you may get a manipulated picture.For example when a hungarian is slapped in the face in Vojvodina or Slovakia it imidiatelly becomes an article ,but when a gypsy kills a hungarian in Hungary for most out of politcal correctness it is ignored.This has an aim to make hungarians feel that they are not at home in hungary while at the same time are hated abroad and therefor are a doomed nation.

Not even a statement from the Serbian Orthodox Church? Being a religion of peace and all they must lead the condemnations.
(arTa, 29 September 2009 18:14)

Do you ever get tired of finding ways to blame Serbs and Serbian church for everything that goes wrong?

Let's see now. Elderly Serbs have been getting murdered in Kosovo for a long time now, but I have not heard one word of sympathy from the mosques there. Do you have the same condemnation for them too?

This is a sad occasion and most normal people's thoughts are with the victim and his family not looking at ways to condemn the church.
Belgrade and it's people are doing the right thing in getting together and condemning this horrible crime. When caught, these criminals should be put away for a very long time. Anything else would not be justice.

These people and their intolerance and hate, make it harder to be a friend of Serbia.
(Ciaran O Donnell, 29 September 2009 16:16)

Too bad you feel that way.
Why do you allow a few thugs, which are in every city of every country, to make it hard to be a friend of Serbia?

Come to Melbourne and I will guarantee you will become anti Australian if you judge a country by the actions of few. Melbourne has become a very unsafe city after midnight and yet the government is not doing much at all about it. Most locals would not dream of going into some parts of the city in the early hours. Many tourists have been attacked and killed here and yet I would not judge this country by the actions of few idiots.

I am so sorry that he has died, so sad, and so angry too. yes, there is violence "everywhere" with sometimes similar, sometimes quite specific and distinct roots and manifestations. but this kind of hate and violence has been all too often reinforced, instead of condemned.

my frnd and i were just speaking about going to blgd in dec., but obviously we cannot be there tomorrow; otherwise we would join the PEACE marchers there, just as i have so many times w frnds here.

it is just the right thing to do, and i applaud those who are organizing it, and who will participate.

to the french victim, r.i.p.

robert-o

I don't want to sound cynical but I am just wondering...if the victime would not be a French but let say a Hungarian do you all genuinely believe that there would be a peace march???
(Joe, 29 September 2009 19:54)
--
How about if the victim was a Serbian in Pristina? Would our ethnic-Albanian citizens be celebrating instead?

Hey Roberto, I'll be on the march for the city I love. You,on the other hand, can keep your hating to yourself. No one believes your crocodile tears.
(Dave, 29 September 2009 22:37)

well said Dave. What a pity its at short notice I would have gone myself but many thanks to the posters who will be there. Show the scumbags what you think of them.

I have been to Belgrade and Serbia many times and I have got to say its my favourite place. I am struck by the hospitality of the Serbian people and anywhere i'm abroad i always go out of my way to find a Serbian cafe/bar or restaurant to meet Serbs where i'm always welcome.

Ciaran, my fellow Irishman, leave your prejudices about Serbia at the door. The actions of a bunch of hooligans should not be used as a stick to beat the Serbian nation with. In fact I feel more safer in Belgrade than I do in Dublin and Belgrade is twice as big.

Ciaran, do you know that last weekend there was a spate of stabbings and in Dublin and Tralee which resulted in 3 fatalities yet I hear no one considering not visiting or boycotting Ireland.

On another note last weekend in Waterford (my hometown) city centre was akin to a warzone, assaults, stabbings and general drunken behaviour.

What I really found touching and very human early this year was the very sincere outpooring of sentiments and sympathy in Veszprem, Hungary following the killing of a beloved Romanian basketball player.
(Joe, 30 September 2009 15:56)

Joe,

Although it makes no difference but Cozma was a handball player.Otherwise that case shows the differnce between hungarian and serb+croat mentality very well.That entartainment facility was full of 300 hungarians yet only Pesic the croat guy and two serbs (Sesum+Vilovski) dared to help the romanian guy http://www.kezilabda.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=807:uros-vilovski-hstette&catid=42:budapest-bank-ferfi-liga&Itemid=149 As to your analysis and suggestion that the whole march is organized just because the victim was from a leading EU country is a total nonse a primitive speculation without ground where you again try to express your well known anti-ortodox sentiment trying to portray serbs as counting people while hungarians as sentimental ones Serbs driven by their pride,backbone and heart sacrified a lot against europe's inside and outside enemies while hungarians at last after kiegyezés(1867) unfortunatelly lost backbone and sided with those enemies (Habsburgs,Hitler ,New World Order)thinking that they bet on the right horse which always in the end turned to be false.So after Kiegyezés hungarians were always driven by counting (on top of all that bad one)and not sentimental except for 1956.

Were I in Belgrade, I would have attended the march.

Hooliganism is present in every nation - it is just more painful when horrible acts committed by this vermin are your own people. I will work hard to promote tolerance towards others in any way I can. Belgrade is a safe and friendly city. It is unfortunate that horrific acts such as this murder have to occur before people open their eyes. This small, but evil element, must be cleansed by the good and peace loving citizens of Belgrade.

To bad, it's on a short notice for tomorrow, otherwise would drive these 200 miles.

"Mike, Ataman, If everything goes right I'll be tomorrow in Belgrade and will lighten candles for you too and for all having that wish!"

-- Thanks Swiss, I'd certainly appreciate it.

These hooligans were considered "heroes" in Oct. 2000 by the western press.

I spent a month in Belgrade. The city is the most beautiful I've ever visited and the people the most hospitable and friendly. This is a random act by a few hooligans. The fact that Belgrade is organizing an anti-violence march speaks volumes about the people and the city. Were this to happen elsewhere in Europe (and it has), such a march would likely not be organized. RIP Brice Taton, Ranko Panic and all victims of senseless violence. Long live Belgrade, the greatest city in the world!

Thanks, Swiss, it is appreciated. Very sad occasion, indeed.

I am really sorry, I need to ask the company in the States every time if I want to travel and because of 9 hour time difference it's simply not enough time left.

my frnd and i were just speaking about going to blgd in dec.
robert-o
(roberto, 29 September 2009 20:41)

Don't forget to ask Mishatours-dot-com about airplane ticket prices. We found his prices difficult to beat by wide margin. They are in El Cajon, CA.

And as you may note, I am with "gmail-dot-com" now because "me-dot-com" is not as reliable.

I will most certanly attend the march against violence, that's the least I can do as a citizen of Serbia and a citizen of Belgrade which has always welcomed foreign people and such a brutal act of murder must be most severely punished. We, the citizens of Serbia, demand it. We want a free country where evryone can walk safely where ever they come from and feel ashamed for this vandalism.

My friends in Serbia have been telling me they how they feel and the general mood in the city from their perspective. They aren’t saying it could happen anywhere - whether it could or not. They are ashamed and deeply upset. There is a feeling of hopelessness.

I truly believe in the people in that city. I have received great hospitality in the past. I know there is strength in these people. And they can make a difference. They can send a message to the thugs that it is their city and it is their streets. They can show their numbers. They can show compassion, sorrow and respect for the loss of the tragic mans life.

The good and normal people can make a difference. To everyone who can attend tomorrow, please go and show the world the real Belgrade

I agree with comments made here earlier – Belgrade is a wonderfully friendly city and I know that the vast majority of her citizens are shocked and disgusted. I’ve visited Belgrade many, many times since my partner is Serb but we live in UK (I’m not Serb).) I also agree that acts of violence occur everywhere.
However I think the peace march is needed for a number of reasons. The organised right/extreme nationalists seemed to have been allowed to get away with their hate filled actions and one can’t help feeling that they are setting and winning the agenda. Most politicians are not standing up to this unequivocally. With Belgrade Pride, violence won and so the march didn’t go ahead. Again, political, civic and religious leaders failed to condemn the acts/threats of violence in an unequivocal manner. The longstanding Kosovo issue has allowed some to harbour a belief that “westerners” are the enemy. Again, political and religious leaders are weak and don’t or won’t use their influence to stop vile anti west movement. Citizens, (especially minorities) need to feel 100% certain that their police, their politicians and their civic leaders will stand up for them against the nasty thugs and extreme nationalists. I’m not sure that they feel protected any more.
We speak to our family and friends in Belgrade almost every day. What they want is that the world sees them for what they are – hospitable, generous and friendly people. The peace march will give them – the peaceful majority – the opportunity to stand up and be counted. They need to take back their city and show the world that there is no place in Serbia for thugs and extreme nationalists. They need to be proud again of their great city. Not for the first time in history, the people will demand better from their leaders. I sincerely hope the people’s voice will be heard all over the world.

Peace and respect to all my Belgrade friends

This is a shameful act committed by beasts. Like 99.99% of all Serbs, we condemn this murder and express our sympthy to the family. May God have mercy on his innocent soul.

I hope that Serbian courts move quickly and forcefully to ensure these animals the harshest of terms.

ataman -- thanks, good air prices are hard to find...

ataman -- thanks, good air prices are hard to find...
(roberto, 30 September 2009 04:11)

We used Misha's help for years. He is JAT consolidator and sells the consolidator tickets, way below on-line prices.

Typically, that involves a large (Atlantic) stretch flown on Virgin Atlantic till London and connecting to JAT from London to Belgrade.

The total San Francisco-London-Belgrade round-trip from Mishatours is typically few hundred Dollars LESS than the cheapest San Francisco-London-San Francisco round-trip you can find on Virgin Atlantic on-line.

It is not somewhat they advertise, of course. Also interestingly, flying to Budapest that way (i.e. to BG first than taking the train) is cheaper, than any direct flight and connection is fine.

In any case be prepared for some unusual weather conditions because lately both winters and summers are abnormal in the area lately.

Flying back with Virgin / JAT combo usually involves an overnight stay in London. If you do not like that, you can ask Misha for Lufthansa or Air India.

Also be prepared, Virgin / JAT combo can be paid by cash (check is OK), not credit card because of very thin margin. You can of course combine Virgin with JAT on-line and use a C/C, plus get miles - but I rather pay good $500 less by check. Checks are safe with Mishatours. Misha will accept credit card for Lufthansa ticket, but it is usually 200 Dollar more.

Hey Roberto, I'll be on the march for the city I love. You,on the other hand, can keep your hating to yourself. No one believes your crocodile tears.
(Dave, 29 September 2009 22:37)

Dave, I barely remember a case when I would agree with Roberto or, say, Kosova-USA about politics.

However, our policy in the family is, that we keep political disagreements away from our personal life.

Suggest everyone to follow it, keeps certain form of ulcers away and saves medical bills.

Joe,

And just one more thing.I took part in that commemoration march in Veszprém before the CL match against Leon.Well besides hungarian I heard many people speak either croatian or serb .In fact many hungarians begged serbs to take a revange on murderers.And as to team MKB Veszprém it was the goalkeeper Peric who kept the body and soul of that team together in the most difficult moments doing his best on and off the field.He is simply a god in Veszprém:father,brother,goalie psychologist and coach at the same time. http://sport.hirekneked.hu/perics-a-csodakapus.html

Sometimes it may not look that way, but Serbia is actually a much better place than the existence of these thugs might suggest.

There are lots of good people who love Serbia but hate those who hate.

Those good people apologise to the victims of attacks and to the families of those who have died.

To the thugs - get out; you are not wanted.

Ataman,

KLM and AIR FRANCE jointly often offer BP-Frisco between 110 000-150 000 FT (420€-550 €)Donno if it can compate with your prices but maybe you could check them.
In July I went BP-New york for 83 000 FT(320 €) round trip but it was last minute.

Szemi,

Flying to USA is always less than the other way. The tariff is very asymmetric.

Same about the trains, too. Budapest-Vienna-Budapest is between 26 and 29 Euro, but if you start from Vienna, it will be significantly more.

And there is more, of course. For some "mysterious" reason if you travel from Devinska Nova Ves (Slovakia) to Manchzhuria (Chinese border), the price of the round-trip ticket is about 170 Euro or so. But if you travel from Marchegg (Austria) which is only few km from Devinska Nova Ves, the price is more than double.

Or why does Nickelsdorf-Hegyeshalom-Belgrade round-trip cost 106.80 Euro while Hegyeshalom-Belgrade-Hegyeshalom is 39.36 Euro?

(Hegyeshalom is only 6 km from Nickelsdorf, but is in Hungary, Nickelsdorf is in Austria)