The U.S. embassy in Belgrade has expressed concern that no one has been convicted for the murders of American citizens Agron, Ylli and Mehmet Bitiqi in 1999.
Maybe Serbs should learn from Americans or Brits who for one of their kidnapped or murdered hostage take out 2,000 of "those responsible" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Why is the USA so concerned about KLA fighters who were liquidated in 1999? The USA never brought to trial any of the Albanian KLA criminals that did organ theft from living Serbs and other nationalities in the 1990's. The USA never brought to trial those who destroyed Serbian Cathedrals. The USA never evicted the mosques built over the ruins of destroyed Serbian churches.
and not only because of Nikola Tesla, Milena Maric, Ivo Andric, the new Tennis-stars Djokovic, Ivanovic or Jankovic, or the waterpolo-champions, or the basketball-heroes... need I say more?
so please, spare your biased propaganda phrases for albanian forums, perhaps they could be made happy with nonsense like yours...
It's good that the US is concerned. However, they should be concerned equally when Kosovo Albanians or Bosnian Muslims are acquitted for crimes against Serbs. In those cases, their lips are sealed. Nevertheless, it's instructive to see that the Serb prosecution is standing up to appeal this decision. Isn't it interesting that the evil Serbs are fighting for justice for the victims whom themselves came all the way to Serbia to kill Serbs? Boy those Serbs are so evil aren't they. I'm being sarcastic, in case you cannot figure out.
The only thing the US will do is talk, express its concerns for justice and then shut up. It already has enough on its plate without having to worry about 3 Albanians killed during the conflict even if they did work for the CIA – like the 10,000 killed by NATO bombing in Kosovo, they are dispensable, served their purpose and that’s it. Hear is something for you to think about, there are no Kosovars working in Camp Bondsteel and I wounder why when the US is your friend – because they don’t trust you baby. With friends like that who needs enemies.
Kosovo becoming a country, ha ha what a joke how will it survive it has no industry, minerals, no infrastructure – nothing and 80% unemployment. Join Albania; ha ha it’s in a worst state than Kosovo. Don’t count on the US pouring in millions of dollars they are broke and the EU is looking for a way out of Kosovo because it’s costing a bundle.
No it will be Kosovars trying to look for jobs elsewhere not in Serbia. Perhaps you might look for jobs in Greece; I hear the Greeks are very receptive to Albanians.
roberto,
while you walked over the point in you post, you've missed it, but not by much. as you said the us system of legal justice has something to be desired, as well so do all the other legal systems. it's highly questionable, hypocritical and arrogant thinking that any one of these 'imperfect' systems can offer anything to serbia's system of legal justice. frankly it's not a matter of putting focus elsewhere, but a matter of shedding light on the whole situation. without have a clue as to the detailed nature of serbia's political system everyone here, who stands opposed, are flapping their gums in order to hide the deficiencies of their own backyards.
it doesn't have to be about oj, what about guantanamo, or perhaps cluster bombing iraq, afghanastan, pakistan (note no war has been declared there yet us military regularly runs bombing raids into this country). the military leaders, the president of the usa are infact direct agents of terror in these cases, yet your legal, and political system of the states misses that.
so while the nearly 6.75 billion people in the world, that aren't american, watch the usa inflict terror, commit war crimes, let these gentlemen (loose term if i ever did see it) walk free, continue to lead and then hear some sort of nonesense like 'you don't know, usa knows...' you must see the hypocracy... and please excuses of your populace do not add up. if the usa is chacing terrorists and is allowed to indecriminatly bomb, whats the difference? if usa is allowed to displace (and mind you many to most of these people remain displaced as a direct result) nearly 1 million iraqi civilians, kill hundreds of thousands civilians throughout their middle eastern conquests then i ask why you don't support an international war tribunal to bring some of these terrorists and war criminals to justice...
let me guess... your bias is to strong to admit fault.
not that serbia is clean of terrible acts, but when i see glass house dwelling fools throwing stones i have to wonder... please atleast many of the serbia-side posters as well as many of its citizenry and political attache have admitted wrongs and have been taking large efforts to make ammends and move on. it is unfortuanete that non of the other former jugo nations with blood on their hands is willing to step forward.
these three brothers died doing what they wanted... that was in joining a terrorist organization... it is a shame, but it is reality...
and since us judge says oj didn't do it... then he's innocent, right?
Before there is any justice in Serbia, its people must come to terms with its past. Only then can justice be served.
I do not want to spell out a list of Serbia's flagrant war crimes, since I believe the whole world was witness to them. But, I do think it is time for Serbs to come to terms with their unfortunate past. Otherwise, future generations will continue to carry the stigma of being Serb.
no, i am not suggesting more air raids, i am seriously suggesting a eulex-type mission to blgrd to help build an independent and real judiciary, from ground up, and to supervise every step of these trial processes. every step. it is our only hope. and the eulex mission itself should be supervised to make sure it is doing as it should do, and not become bloated and corrupt itself.
(roberto, 25 September 2009 04:27)
Where is the guarantee, the supervisors of supervisors of supervisors of EULEX aren't corrupt? Add more supervisors? Probably not. Besides, it's not only corruption. Everyone knows that songbirds die early.
As said, in this case some weren't ready to become martyrs. Like in the case against Haradinaj. Italy is in process to win the war against mafia - but many brave judges and police officers lost and probably will lose their life during the process.
One day, "Drenica" and "Zemun" will be merely geographic names. Many police officers and judges will die till it happens.
I am not sure what is your position but I don't make any difference between Zemun and Drenica.
The Swiss
You are right we are all tired about americans trying to teach us lessons about democracy and fair trials. Everyone knows what happened to captured muslimsuspects guilty or not.Does Guadanamo ring you a bell to all my fellow american pro-alb friends here? Who was ever brought to international court of justice? Spare your lessons of democracy for stupid fat burger eating domestic americans of your own kind please!
For an Albo, Kosmet-USA loves chatting serbs on b92. You've got to be the biggest troll on here. I hope all this arguing is not giving you an ulser, that would be a shame.
yes, it is so nice to have allies in this struggle, and i really have to watch my mouth about certain comments that are beyond bizarre (it is all about OJ!?)
and thank you, Amer, for responding appropriately, since some of us do not have unlimited time and energy.
my point, way back a few days ago -- none of us really know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the guilt or lack thereof of some people we have never met, and whose names we may barely be able to pronounce (i am not referring to the major war criminals here.) so MY point was not about these 2 particular fish, but about serbia's justice system (so-called) which is so thoroughly inadequate when left to its own devices, and which will never, i mean never find justice for the mass murder of albanians (or any other despised minorities) unless it is forced every step of the way, and i do mean forced.
no, i am not suggesting more air raids, i am seriously suggesting a eulex-type mission to blgrd to help build an independent and real judiciary, from ground up, and to supervise every step of these trial processes. every step. it is our only hope. and the eulex mission itself should be supervised to make sure it is doing as it should do, and not become bloated and corrupt itself.
so whether american justice may leave something to be desired is NOT the point here, and is a typical cheap attempt to take the focus off the problem, deny it and then relativize it all. we don't fall for such cheap ploys.
and, btw, altho oj's criminal trial was an utter fiasco (though i personally liked marsha clark :-), he ended up losing a civil court case, in a very big way, and is presently serving some jail time as i understand it.
thank you. my thoughts are with the bytyqui bro's and their families.
"If, after a regular trial, a captured soldier"
Nemanja
If,
After a trial
A captured soldier
Well none of those match
IF, what if they are dead
A trial paramilitary with guns is not a "real" trial
Ac captured soldier, 15 days for crosspassing with no visa, thats all anybody got on them
as for Geneva, with the amount of mass graves found and still hidden in Serbia proper, the geneva is dead, unfortunatly
Well, well. These brothers came from America with the UCK's Atlantic Brigade to fight a terrorist war against the security of a state called Serbia. Therefore they are terrorists. Plain and simple terrorists who came to fight jihad against the infidel Serbs and so claim new territory. So wise up!
My comment indicating that justice was indeed served in this matter relates to Protocol Additional Geneva Conventions 1977 (APGC77):
"If, after a regular trial, a captured soldier is found to be a mercenary, then he can expect treatment as a common criminal and may face execution."
Isn't that what happened?
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 24 September 2009 19:46)
Mercenaries in your home land? Muslims but not albanians? Trialed and determined they were mercenaries while they were never trialed and were cought for illegal crossing and they helped Serbs??
This is precisely why K-Alb must never forget what cawards they are dealing with.
Shalom,Jill, and thanks for the comment.
"...perhaps these brothers should have stayed home flipping pizza... instead of sticking noses in the affairs of another country..."
But flipping pizzas does not guarantee a personal safety. I know of a case in New Jersey, a case of an Albanian family that did precisely that -stayed home, but - ooops! pizza was flipped in the strange way, delivered to that military base with some explosive as a garnish or extra topping, whatever...
A perfect illustration for the old proverb about the dog biting the hand that fed him.
i wonder exactly how many of you arm chair judges actually have a clue... honestly... we've got two very opposite sides here, and very few people in the middle. for those of us that got shot (the 3 brothers) or those of us that did the shooting (somebody with a gun) only we can say what happened. what've i've read is that all of this forum knows the truth. over and over again, comments like 'guilty' and 'pay back' etc... what is it that gives you clarvoence over that which courts do not? please refer to a suspected criminal as such, and not assume guilt without knowing. for those of us that are here to tell me that they know, then demonstrate what you know and how you know, other wise i too can say i know...in fact i can say i narrowly avioded the incident because i stepped out to go to the toilet during that moment... i spent the next few hours waiting in fear in the outhouse... when i returned, the funniest thing... the three took their own lives...
now i was there... i know...
yeah, sure... who believes me?
Justice will be served for the deaths of the 3 Bytyqi brothers.
MARK MY WORDS.
(KOSOVARi, 24 September 2009 19:11)
What is the problem here ?
Justice has already been served at least in this case.The only problem is that there are still many narcoterorists and organ trafficers who have not been punished yet.
Mike I am surprised to find that you only think in terms of how much attention a case draws instead of how brutal it is.
This case only paints Serbia as backward thinking and biased, unable to own up to its past and unable to make amends with a large section of what it considers its population. Looks like the cause for Kosovo is abandoned, as criminals in Serbia are set loose and foreigners fear for their lives in public settings.
"Mike I am surprised to find that you only think in terms of how much attention a case draws instead of how brutal it is."
-- I never said it wasn't deserving of attention, but that there is a clear disconnect between what some here regard as a major American issue and what is (or in this case is not) actually being reported in the USA. I never denied that the murders were brutal and unjust, and like all war crimes regardless of who committed them, the perpetrators need to be found and tried. I'm simply saying that the case is not receiving the attention some claim it is (or should). Some posters are hoping for American to take decisive action (read as anything from political sanctions to air raid over Belgrade). My opinion is that there will be a statement voicing concern that the case remains open, but that's about it.
They can "voice concern", but nothing is really going to happen. This didn't make the news of any major US papers two days ago. I doubt that even Obama is being kept appraised of this. In fact, had I not gotten the information here, I wouldn't have even know such an event happened.
Three muslim immigrants with U.S. citizenship that fought as mercenaries for a terrorist organization were found killed.
Sounds to me that justice was served.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 24 September 2009 15:38)
Too bad that America doesn't think in such a racist way about those to whom it grants citizenship. They are Americans just like everyone else who was born here, and their deaths will be pursued to the end. You are a disgrace to the American way of life. Thug.
The U.S./CIA trained the KLA as tools. It also flew over the Atlantic Brigade mercenaries then trained them in Albania.
The terrorist brothers were tools of the CIA which is why they make such issue with it.
There were many more Serbian civilians who were kidnapped and shot down in cold blood while the U.S. forces took control of Kosovo. The U.S. didn't care a whit about Serbs being killed in their own homes.
But paramilitary soldiers who interfere in an overseas war and then invade further into a country after the war is supposedly over get lots of attention.
Nick KS, are you saying that the Serbian police/military should have just allowed the KLA to commit their terrorist activities unhindered? What state in the world would not respond to such horrific acts against its citizens? Think before you speak, please.
It doesn't matter now I believe. One can't you look up to his/her killer and mass grave digger and expect justice? You are not going to find any remorse or apology from Serbia.
It's just another reminder of what fate Albanians will have under Serbia. And not only Albanians .... It is the best reminder to the world why Kosovo must be an independet state recognized by all.
I hope this will only go to strengthen K-Alb will and resolve. Endure all sufferings and uncertanty of this situation for your independence, otherwise you will die. God help those Albanians who forget this.
i wonder if the serbian embassy should express concerns that nobody has been criminally charged with the murders of nichole brown smith and ronald goldman.
atleast those two were murdered in a region without war, yet the glorious us justice system could not find the evidence... yes the magic word here today is evidence... to convict dear old oj... even though much of the whole world said that he was guilty... i see similarities... do any of you?
sitting on your faux ivory towers making outrageous statements at legal systems all the while ignoring your masters' system's deficiencies... they happen to be the same...innocent till proven guilty... it takes more than a series of loud mouth trolls scrapping the interwebs to demonstrate proof beyond reasonable doubt.
maybe perhaps these brothers should have stayed home, flipping pizza, or whatever it was they were doing, instead of sticking their noses in the affairs of another country... just my opinion... i mean i wouldn't allow my son to fight isreal's wars regardless of the historical or ethnic connnection that he might have... maybe mother and father want to cleanse themselves of some of the guilt that they're feeling... it's not their fault (kosovo-usa do tell them that cause you know everyone) but it wasn't the brightest bulb in the box that decided it was a good idea to go to a war zone...
The new NFL season has already begun.NHL and NBA are gonna start soon as well as Baseball World Series.So please sit down in front of your big screen TV order some food from nearby Burger World or Domino PIzzas ask your overweight wife or girlfriend to join you and enjoy the match.Oh and I have almost forgotten something.Stay out of others people's business 'cause more and more are fed up with your arrogance and hypocratic behavior worldwide.
On the other hand, maybe the tens of thousands of Serbian military, paramilitary and police troops should have stayed in Serbia chasing the real criminals, AND the war wouldnt have happened.
“We expect Serbian authorities to bring to justice those responsible for the deaths of Agron, Ylli, and Mehmet Bytyqi,” the statement reads.'
And we expect the US to keep their big nose out of Serbian internal affairs. American meddling in the Balkans has been disastrous. We also expect that the criminals who bombed Serbia illegaly for 78 days are tried for war crimes - Clinton, Albright, Blair, Clark...all of them.
The U.S. embassy in Belgrade has expressed concern that no one has been convicted for the murders of American citizens Agron, Ylli and Mehmet Bitiqi in 1999.
--
It's the serbian way of doing justice. Only those too stupid to tape it have been arrested, the rest are collecting state pensions
You knew and know who exactly has done it and on whos orders, but you chose to prosecute a very small fish and you were fully aware that charges would not stick. Come on, this prosecutor knew exactly what he was doing, so stop the sharade now. Uncle Sam will not let it rest, as I have said it before. Stay tuned.
“We expect Serbian authorities to bring to justice those responsible for the deaths of Agron, Ylli, and Mehmet Bytyqi,” the statement reads.'
And we expect the US to keep their big nose out of Serbian internal affairs. American meddling in the Balkans has been disastrous. We also expect that the criminals who bombed Serbia illegaly for 78 days are tried for war crimes - Clinton, Albright, Blair, Clark...all of them.
The U.S./CIA trained the KLA as tools. It also flew over the Atlantic Brigade mercenaries then trained them in Albania.
The terrorist brothers were tools of the CIA which is why they make such issue with it.
There were many more Serbian civilians who were kidnapped and shot down in cold blood while the U.S. forces took control of Kosovo. The U.S. didn't care a whit about Serbs being killed in their own homes.
But paramilitary soldiers who interfere in an overseas war and then invade further into a country after the war is supposedly over get lots of attention.
i wonder if the serbian embassy should express concerns that nobody has been criminally charged with the murders of nichole brown smith and ronald goldman.
atleast those two were murdered in a region without war, yet the glorious us justice system could not find the evidence... yes the magic word here today is evidence... to convict dear old oj... even though much of the whole world said that he was guilty... i see similarities... do any of you?
sitting on your faux ivory towers making outrageous statements at legal systems all the while ignoring your masters' system's deficiencies... they happen to be the same...innocent till proven guilty... it takes more than a series of loud mouth trolls scrapping the interwebs to demonstrate proof beyond reasonable doubt.
maybe perhaps these brothers should have stayed home, flipping pizza, or whatever it was they were doing, instead of sticking their noses in the affairs of another country... just my opinion... i mean i wouldn't allow my son to fight isreal's wars regardless of the historical or ethnic connnection that he might have... maybe mother and father want to cleanse themselves of some of the guilt that they're feeling... it's not their fault (kosovo-usa do tell them that cause you know everyone) but it wasn't the brightest bulb in the box that decided it was a good idea to go to a war zone...
The new NFL season has already begun.NHL and NBA are gonna start soon as well as Baseball World Series.So please sit down in front of your big screen TV order some food from nearby Burger World or Domino PIzzas ask your overweight wife or girlfriend to join you and enjoy the match.Oh and I have almost forgotten something.Stay out of others people's business 'cause more and more are fed up with your arrogance and hypocratic behavior worldwide.
Nick KS, are you saying that the Serbian police/military should have just allowed the KLA to commit their terrorist activities unhindered? What state in the world would not respond to such horrific acts against its citizens? Think before you speak, please.
Justice will be served for the deaths of the 3 Bytyqi brothers.
MARK MY WORDS.
(KOSOVARi, 24 September 2009 19:11)
What is the problem here ?
Justice has already been served at least in this case.The only problem is that there are still many narcoterorists and organ trafficers who have not been punished yet.
On the other hand, maybe the tens of thousands of Serbian military, paramilitary and police troops should have stayed in Serbia chasing the real criminals, AND the war wouldnt have happened.
They can "voice concern", but nothing is really going to happen. This didn't make the news of any major US papers two days ago. I doubt that even Obama is being kept appraised of this. In fact, had I not gotten the information here, I wouldn't have even know such an event happened.
Well, well. These brothers came from America with the UCK's Atlantic Brigade to fight a terrorist war against the security of a state called Serbia. Therefore they are terrorists. Plain and simple terrorists who came to fight jihad against the infidel Serbs and so claim new territory. So wise up!
You knew and know who exactly has done it and on whos orders, but you chose to prosecute a very small fish and you were fully aware that charges would not stick. Come on, this prosecutor knew exactly what he was doing, so stop the sharade now. Uncle Sam will not let it rest, as I have said it before. Stay tuned.
The U.S. embassy in Belgrade has expressed concern that no one has been convicted for the murders of American citizens Agron, Ylli and Mehmet Bitiqi in 1999.
--
It's the serbian way of doing justice. Only those too stupid to tape it have been arrested, the rest are collecting state pensions
Three muslim immigrants with U.S. citizenship that fought as mercenaries for a terrorist organization were found killed.
Sounds to me that justice was served.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 24 September 2009 15:38)
Too bad that America doesn't think in such a racist way about those to whom it grants citizenship. They are Americans just like everyone else who was born here, and their deaths will be pursued to the end. You are a disgrace to the American way of life. Thug.
The Swiss
You are right we are all tired about americans trying to teach us lessons about democracy and fair trials. Everyone knows what happened to captured muslimsuspects guilty or not.Does Guadanamo ring you a bell to all my fellow american pro-alb friends here? Who was ever brought to international court of justice? Spare your lessons of democracy for stupid fat burger eating domestic americans of your own kind please!
For an Albo, Kosmet-USA loves chatting serbs on b92. You've got to be the biggest troll on here. I hope all this arguing is not giving you an ulser, that would be a shame.
The only thing the US will do is talk, express its concerns for justice and then shut up. It already has enough on its plate without having to worry about 3 Albanians killed during the conflict even if they did work for the CIA – like the 10,000 killed by NATO bombing in Kosovo, they are dispensable, served their purpose and that’s it. Hear is something for you to think about, there are no Kosovars working in Camp Bondsteel and I wounder why when the US is your friend – because they don’t trust you baby. With friends like that who needs enemies.
Kosovo becoming a country, ha ha what a joke how will it survive it has no industry, minerals, no infrastructure – nothing and 80% unemployment. Join Albania; ha ha it’s in a worst state than Kosovo. Don’t count on the US pouring in millions of dollars they are broke and the EU is looking for a way out of Kosovo because it’s costing a bundle.
No it will be Kosovars trying to look for jobs elsewhere not in Serbia. Perhaps you might look for jobs in Greece; I hear the Greeks are very receptive to Albanians.
"Mike I am surprised to find that you only think in terms of how much attention a case draws instead of how brutal it is."
-- I never said it wasn't deserving of attention, but that there is a clear disconnect between what some here regard as a major American issue and what is (or in this case is not) actually being reported in the USA. I never denied that the murders were brutal and unjust, and like all war crimes regardless of who committed them, the perpetrators need to be found and tried. I'm simply saying that the case is not receiving the attention some claim it is (or should). Some posters are hoping for American to take decisive action (read as anything from political sanctions to air raid over Belgrade). My opinion is that there will be a statement voicing concern that the case remains open, but that's about it.
Shalom,Jill, and thanks for the comment.
"...perhaps these brothers should have stayed home flipping pizza... instead of sticking noses in the affairs of another country..."
But flipping pizzas does not guarantee a personal safety. I know of a case in New Jersey, a case of an Albanian family that did precisely that -stayed home, but - ooops! pizza was flipped in the strange way, delivered to that military base with some explosive as a garnish or extra topping, whatever...
A perfect illustration for the old proverb about the dog biting the hand that fed him.
i wonder exactly how many of you arm chair judges actually have a clue... honestly... we've got two very opposite sides here, and very few people in the middle. for those of us that got shot (the 3 brothers) or those of us that did the shooting (somebody with a gun) only we can say what happened. what've i've read is that all of this forum knows the truth. over and over again, comments like 'guilty' and 'pay back' etc... what is it that gives you clarvoence over that which courts do not? please refer to a suspected criminal as such, and not assume guilt without knowing. for those of us that are here to tell me that they know, then demonstrate what you know and how you know, other wise i too can say i know...in fact i can say i narrowly avioded the incident because i stepped out to go to the toilet during that moment... i spent the next few hours waiting in fear in the outhouse... when i returned, the funniest thing... the three took their own lives...
now i was there... i know...
yeah, sure... who believes me?
and not only because of Nikola Tesla, Milena Maric, Ivo Andric, the new Tennis-stars Djokovic, Ivanovic or Jankovic, or the waterpolo-champions, or the basketball-heroes... need I say more?
so please, spare your biased propaganda phrases for albanian forums, perhaps they could be made happy with nonsense like yours...
It doesn't matter now I believe. One can't you look up to his/her killer and mass grave digger and expect justice? You are not going to find any remorse or apology from Serbia.
It's just another reminder of what fate Albanians will have under Serbia. And not only Albanians .... It is the best reminder to the world why Kosovo must be an independet state recognized by all.
I hope this will only go to strengthen K-Alb will and resolve. Endure all sufferings and uncertanty of this situation for your independence, otherwise you will die. God help those Albanians who forget this.
no, i am not suggesting more air raids, i am seriously suggesting a eulex-type mission to blgrd to help build an independent and real judiciary, from ground up, and to supervise every step of these trial processes. every step. it is our only hope. and the eulex mission itself should be supervised to make sure it is doing as it should do, and not become bloated and corrupt itself.
(roberto, 25 September 2009 04:27)
Where is the guarantee, the supervisors of supervisors of supervisors of EULEX aren't corrupt? Add more supervisors? Probably not. Besides, it's not only corruption. Everyone knows that songbirds die early.
As said, in this case some weren't ready to become martyrs. Like in the case against Haradinaj. Italy is in process to win the war against mafia - but many brave judges and police officers lost and probably will lose their life during the process.
One day, "Drenica" and "Zemun" will be merely geographic names. Many police officers and judges will die till it happens.
I am not sure what is your position but I don't make any difference between Zemun and Drenica.
Why is the USA so concerned about KLA fighters who were liquidated in 1999? The USA never brought to trial any of the Albanian KLA criminals that did organ theft from living Serbs and other nationalities in the 1990's. The USA never brought to trial those who destroyed Serbian Cathedrals. The USA never evicted the mosques built over the ruins of destroyed Serbian churches.
My comment indicating that justice was indeed served in this matter relates to Protocol Additional Geneva Conventions 1977 (APGC77):
"If, after a regular trial, a captured soldier is found to be a mercenary, then he can expect treatment as a common criminal and may face execution."
Isn't that what happened?
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 24 September 2009 19:46)
Mercenaries in your home land? Muslims but not albanians? Trialed and determined they were mercenaries while they were never trialed and were cought for illegal crossing and they helped Serbs??
This is precisely why K-Alb must never forget what cawards they are dealing with.
yes, it is so nice to have allies in this struggle, and i really have to watch my mouth about certain comments that are beyond bizarre (it is all about OJ!?)
and thank you, Amer, for responding appropriately, since some of us do not have unlimited time and energy.
my point, way back a few days ago -- none of us really know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the guilt or lack thereof of some people we have never met, and whose names we may barely be able to pronounce (i am not referring to the major war criminals here.) so MY point was not about these 2 particular fish, but about serbia's justice system (so-called) which is so thoroughly inadequate when left to its own devices, and which will never, i mean never find justice for the mass murder of albanians (or any other despised minorities) unless it is forced every step of the way, and i do mean forced.
no, i am not suggesting more air raids, i am seriously suggesting a eulex-type mission to blgrd to help build an independent and real judiciary, from ground up, and to supervise every step of these trial processes. every step. it is our only hope. and the eulex mission itself should be supervised to make sure it is doing as it should do, and not become bloated and corrupt itself.
so whether american justice may leave something to be desired is NOT the point here, and is a typical cheap attempt to take the focus off the problem, deny it and then relativize it all. we don't fall for such cheap ploys.
and, btw, altho oj's criminal trial was an utter fiasco (though i personally liked marsha clark :-), he ended up losing a civil court case, in a very big way, and is presently serving some jail time as i understand it.
thank you. my thoughts are with the bytyqui bro's and their families.
roberto,
while you walked over the point in you post, you've missed it, but not by much. as you said the us system of legal justice has something to be desired, as well so do all the other legal systems. it's highly questionable, hypocritical and arrogant thinking that any one of these 'imperfect' systems can offer anything to serbia's system of legal justice. frankly it's not a matter of putting focus elsewhere, but a matter of shedding light on the whole situation. without have a clue as to the detailed nature of serbia's political system everyone here, who stands opposed, are flapping their gums in order to hide the deficiencies of their own backyards.
it doesn't have to be about oj, what about guantanamo, or perhaps cluster bombing iraq, afghanastan, pakistan (note no war has been declared there yet us military regularly runs bombing raids into this country). the military leaders, the president of the usa are infact direct agents of terror in these cases, yet your legal, and political system of the states misses that.
so while the nearly 6.75 billion people in the world, that aren't american, watch the usa inflict terror, commit war crimes, let these gentlemen (loose term if i ever did see it) walk free, continue to lead and then hear some sort of nonesense like 'you don't know, usa knows...' you must see the hypocracy... and please excuses of your populace do not add up. if the usa is chacing terrorists and is allowed to indecriminatly bomb, whats the difference? if usa is allowed to displace (and mind you many to most of these people remain displaced as a direct result) nearly 1 million iraqi civilians, kill hundreds of thousands civilians throughout their middle eastern conquests then i ask why you don't support an international war tribunal to bring some of these terrorists and war criminals to justice...
let me guess... your bias is to strong to admit fault.
not that serbia is clean of terrible acts, but when i see glass house dwelling fools throwing stones i have to wonder... please atleast many of the serbia-side posters as well as many of its citizenry and political attache have admitted wrongs and have been taking large efforts to make ammends and move on. it is unfortuanete that non of the other former jugo nations with blood on their hands is willing to step forward.
these three brothers died doing what they wanted... that was in joining a terrorist organization... it is a shame, but it is reality...
and since us judge says oj didn't do it... then he's innocent, right?
It's good that the US is concerned. However, they should be concerned equally when Kosovo Albanians or Bosnian Muslims are acquitted for crimes against Serbs. In those cases, their lips are sealed. Nevertheless, it's instructive to see that the Serb prosecution is standing up to appeal this decision. Isn't it interesting that the evil Serbs are fighting for justice for the victims whom themselves came all the way to Serbia to kill Serbs? Boy those Serbs are so evil aren't they. I'm being sarcastic, in case you cannot figure out.
Mike I am surprised to find that you only think in terms of how much attention a case draws instead of how brutal it is.
This case only paints Serbia as backward thinking and biased, unable to own up to its past and unable to make amends with a large section of what it considers its population. Looks like the cause for Kosovo is abandoned, as criminals in Serbia are set loose and foreigners fear for their lives in public settings.
"If, after a regular trial, a captured soldier"
Nemanja
If,
After a trial
A captured soldier
Well none of those match
IF, what if they are dead
A trial paramilitary with guns is not a "real" trial
Ac captured soldier, 15 days for crosspassing with no visa, thats all anybody got on them
as for Geneva, with the amount of mass graves found and still hidden in Serbia proper, the geneva is dead, unfortunatly
Before there is any justice in Serbia, its people must come to terms with its past. Only then can justice be served.
I do not want to spell out a list of Serbia's flagrant war crimes, since I believe the whole world was witness to them. But, I do think it is time for Serbs to come to terms with their unfortunate past. Otherwise, future generations will continue to carry the stigma of being Serb.
Maybe Serbs should learn from Americans or Brits who for one of their kidnapped or murdered hostage take out 2,000 of "those responsible" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Three muslim immigrants with U.S. citizenship that fought as mercenaries for a terrorist organization were found killed.
Sounds to me that justice was served.
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 24 September 2009 15:38)
Too bad that America doesn't think in such a racist way about those to whom it grants citizenship. They are Americans just like everyone else who was born here, and their deaths will be pursued to the end. You are a disgrace to the American way of life. Thug.
You knew and know who exactly has done it and on whos orders, but you chose to prosecute a very small fish and you were fully aware that charges would not stick. Come on, this prosecutor knew exactly what he was doing, so stop the sharade now. Uncle Sam will not let it rest, as I have said it before. Stay tuned.
The U.S. embassy in Belgrade has expressed concern that no one has been convicted for the murders of American citizens Agron, Ylli and Mehmet Bitiqi in 1999.
--
It's the serbian way of doing justice. Only those too stupid to tape it have been arrested, the rest are collecting state pensions
On the other hand, maybe the tens of thousands of Serbian military, paramilitary and police troops should have stayed in Serbia chasing the real criminals, AND the war wouldnt have happened.
“We expect Serbian authorities to bring to justice those responsible for the deaths of Agron, Ylli, and Mehmet Bytyqi,” the statement reads.'
And we expect the US to keep their big nose out of Serbian internal affairs. American meddling in the Balkans has been disastrous. We also expect that the criminals who bombed Serbia illegaly for 78 days are tried for war crimes - Clinton, Albright, Blair, Clark...all of them.
It doesn't matter now I believe. One can't you look up to his/her killer and mass grave digger and expect justice? You are not going to find any remorse or apology from Serbia.
It's just another reminder of what fate Albanians will have under Serbia. And not only Albanians .... It is the best reminder to the world why Kosovo must be an independet state recognized by all.
I hope this will only go to strengthen K-Alb will and resolve. Endure all sufferings and uncertanty of this situation for your independence, otherwise you will die. God help those Albanians who forget this.
Mike I am surprised to find that you only think in terms of how much attention a case draws instead of how brutal it is.
This case only paints Serbia as backward thinking and biased, unable to own up to its past and unable to make amends with a large section of what it considers its population. Looks like the cause for Kosovo is abandoned, as criminals in Serbia are set loose and foreigners fear for their lives in public settings.
yes, it is so nice to have allies in this struggle, and i really have to watch my mouth about certain comments that are beyond bizarre (it is all about OJ!?)
and thank you, Amer, for responding appropriately, since some of us do not have unlimited time and energy.
my point, way back a few days ago -- none of us really know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, the guilt or lack thereof of some people we have never met, and whose names we may barely be able to pronounce (i am not referring to the major war criminals here.) so MY point was not about these 2 particular fish, but about serbia's justice system (so-called) which is so thoroughly inadequate when left to its own devices, and which will never, i mean never find justice for the mass murder of albanians (or any other despised minorities) unless it is forced every step of the way, and i do mean forced.
no, i am not suggesting more air raids, i am seriously suggesting a eulex-type mission to blgrd to help build an independent and real judiciary, from ground up, and to supervise every step of these trial processes. every step. it is our only hope. and the eulex mission itself should be supervised to make sure it is doing as it should do, and not become bloated and corrupt itself.
so whether american justice may leave something to be desired is NOT the point here, and is a typical cheap attempt to take the focus off the problem, deny it and then relativize it all. we don't fall for such cheap ploys.
and, btw, altho oj's criminal trial was an utter fiasco (though i personally liked marsha clark :-), he ended up losing a civil court case, in a very big way, and is presently serving some jail time as i understand it.
thank you. my thoughts are with the bytyqui bro's and their families.
i wonder if the serbian embassy should express concerns that nobody has been criminally charged with the murders of nichole brown smith and ronald goldman.
atleast those two were murdered in a region without war, yet the glorious us justice system could not find the evidence... yes the magic word here today is evidence... to convict dear old oj... even though much of the whole world said that he was guilty... i see similarities... do any of you?
sitting on your faux ivory towers making outrageous statements at legal systems all the while ignoring your masters' system's deficiencies... they happen to be the same...innocent till proven guilty... it takes more than a series of loud mouth trolls scrapping the interwebs to demonstrate proof beyond reasonable doubt.
maybe perhaps these brothers should have stayed home, flipping pizza, or whatever it was they were doing, instead of sticking their noses in the affairs of another country... just my opinion... i mean i wouldn't allow my son to fight isreal's wars regardless of the historical or ethnic connnection that he might have... maybe mother and father want to cleanse themselves of some of the guilt that they're feeling... it's not their fault (kosovo-usa do tell them that cause you know everyone) but it wasn't the brightest bulb in the box that decided it was a good idea to go to a war zone...
Before there is any justice in Serbia, its people must come to terms with its past. Only then can justice be served.
I do not want to spell out a list of Serbia's flagrant war crimes, since I believe the whole world was witness to them. But, I do think it is time for Serbs to come to terms with their unfortunate past. Otherwise, future generations will continue to carry the stigma of being Serb.
My comment indicating that justice was indeed served in this matter relates to Protocol Additional Geneva Conventions 1977 (APGC77):
"If, after a regular trial, a captured soldier is found to be a mercenary, then he can expect treatment as a common criminal and may face execution."
Isn't that what happened?
(Nemanja, Connecticut, 24 September 2009 19:46)
Mercenaries in your home land? Muslims but not albanians? Trialed and determined they were mercenaries while they were never trialed and were cought for illegal crossing and they helped Serbs??
This is precisely why K-Alb must never forget what cawards they are dealing with.
The new NFL season has already begun.NHL and NBA are gonna start soon as well as Baseball World Series.So please sit down in front of your big screen TV order some food from nearby Burger World or Domino PIzzas ask your overweight wife or girlfriend to join you and enjoy the match.Oh and I have almost forgotten something.Stay out of others people's business 'cause more and more are fed up with your arrogance and hypocratic behavior worldwide.
The U.S./CIA trained the KLA as tools. It also flew over the Atlantic Brigade mercenaries then trained them in Albania.
The terrorist brothers were tools of the CIA which is why they make such issue with it.
There were many more Serbian civilians who were kidnapped and shot down in cold blood while the U.S. forces took control of Kosovo. The U.S. didn't care a whit about Serbs being killed in their own homes.
But paramilitary soldiers who interfere in an overseas war and then invade further into a country after the war is supposedly over get lots of attention.
Justice will be served for the deaths of the 3 Bytyqi brothers.
MARK MY WORDS.
(KOSOVARi, 24 September 2009 19:11)
What is the problem here ?
Justice has already been served at least in this case.The only problem is that there are still many narcoterorists and organ trafficers who have not been punished yet.
"If, after a regular trial, a captured soldier"
Nemanja
If,
After a trial
A captured soldier
Well none of those match
IF, what if they are dead
A trial paramilitary with guns is not a "real" trial
Ac captured soldier, 15 days for crosspassing with no visa, thats all anybody got on them
as for Geneva, with the amount of mass graves found and still hidden in Serbia proper, the geneva is dead, unfortunatly
Nick KS, are you saying that the Serbian police/military should have just allowed the KLA to commit their terrorist activities unhindered? What state in the world would not respond to such horrific acts against its citizens? Think before you speak, please.
i wonder exactly how many of you arm chair judges actually have a clue... honestly... we've got two very opposite sides here, and very few people in the middle. for those of us that got shot (the 3 brothers) or those of us that did the shooting (somebody with a gun) only we can say what happened. what've i've read is that all of this forum knows the truth. over and over again, comments like 'guilty' and 'pay back' etc... what is it that gives you clarvoence over that which courts do not? please refer to a suspected criminal as such, and not assume guilt without knowing. for those of us that are here to tell me that they know, then demonstrate what you know and how you know, other wise i too can say i know...in fact i can say i narrowly avioded the incident because i stepped out to go to the toilet during that moment... i spent the next few hours waiting in fear in the outhouse... when i returned, the funniest thing... the three took their own lives...
now i was there... i know...
yeah, sure... who believes me?
For an Albo, Kosmet-USA loves chatting serbs on b92. You've got to be the biggest troll on here. I hope all this arguing is not giving you an ulser, that would be a shame.
Well, well. These brothers came from America with the UCK's Atlantic Brigade to fight a terrorist war against the security of a state called Serbia. Therefore they are terrorists. Plain and simple terrorists who came to fight jihad against the infidel Serbs and so claim new territory. So wise up!
The Swiss
You are right we are all tired about americans trying to teach us lessons about democracy and fair trials. Everyone knows what happened to captured muslimsuspects guilty or not.Does Guadanamo ring you a bell to all my fellow american pro-alb friends here? Who was ever brought to international court of justice? Spare your lessons of democracy for stupid fat burger eating domestic americans of your own kind please!
The only thing the US will do is talk, express its concerns for justice and then shut up. It already has enough on its plate without having to worry about 3 Albanians killed during the conflict even if they did work for the CIA – like the 10,000 killed by NATO bombing in Kosovo, they are dispensable, served their purpose and that’s it. Hear is something for you to think about, there are no Kosovars working in Camp Bondsteel and I wounder why when the US is your friend – because they don’t trust you baby. With friends like that who needs enemies.
Kosovo becoming a country, ha ha what a joke how will it survive it has no industry, minerals, no infrastructure – nothing and 80% unemployment. Join Albania; ha ha it’s in a worst state than Kosovo. Don’t count on the US pouring in millions of dollars they are broke and the EU is looking for a way out of Kosovo because it’s costing a bundle.
No it will be Kosovars trying to look for jobs elsewhere not in Serbia. Perhaps you might look for jobs in Greece; I hear the Greeks are very receptive to Albanians.
no, i am not suggesting more air raids, i am seriously suggesting a eulex-type mission to blgrd to help build an independent and real judiciary, from ground up, and to supervise every step of these trial processes. every step. it is our only hope. and the eulex mission itself should be supervised to make sure it is doing as it should do, and not become bloated and corrupt itself.
(roberto, 25 September 2009 04:27)
Where is the guarantee, the supervisors of supervisors of supervisors of EULEX aren't corrupt? Add more supervisors? Probably not. Besides, it's not only corruption. Everyone knows that songbirds die early.
As said, in this case some weren't ready to become martyrs. Like in the case against Haradinaj. Italy is in process to win the war against mafia - but many brave judges and police officers lost and probably will lose their life during the process.
One day, "Drenica" and "Zemun" will be merely geographic names. Many police officers and judges will die till it happens.
I am not sure what is your position but I don't make any difference between Zemun and Drenica.
and not only because of Nikola Tesla, Milena Maric, Ivo Andric, the new Tennis-stars Djokovic, Ivanovic or Jankovic, or the waterpolo-champions, or the basketball-heroes... need I say more?
so please, spare your biased propaganda phrases for albanian forums, perhaps they could be made happy with nonsense like yours...
Shalom,Jill, and thanks for the comment.
"...perhaps these brothers should have stayed home flipping pizza... instead of sticking noses in the affairs of another country..."
But flipping pizzas does not guarantee a personal safety. I know of a case in New Jersey, a case of an Albanian family that did precisely that -stayed home, but - ooops! pizza was flipped in the strange way, delivered to that military base with some explosive as a garnish or extra topping, whatever...
A perfect illustration for the old proverb about the dog biting the hand that fed him.
roberto,
while you walked over the point in you post, you've missed it, but not by much. as you said the us system of legal justice has something to be desired, as well so do all the other legal systems. it's highly questionable, hypocritical and arrogant thinking that any one of these 'imperfect' systems can offer anything to serbia's system of legal justice. frankly it's not a matter of putting focus elsewhere, but a matter of shedding light on the whole situation. without have a clue as to the detailed nature of serbia's political system everyone here, who stands opposed, are flapping their gums in order to hide the deficiencies of their own backyards.
it doesn't have to be about oj, what about guantanamo, or perhaps cluster bombing iraq, afghanastan, pakistan (note no war has been declared there yet us military regularly runs bombing raids into this country). the military leaders, the president of the usa are infact direct agents of terror in these cases, yet your legal, and political system of the states misses that.
so while the nearly 6.75 billion people in the world, that aren't american, watch the usa inflict terror, commit war crimes, let these gentlemen (loose term if i ever did see it) walk free, continue to lead and then hear some sort of nonesense like 'you don't know, usa knows...' you must see the hypocracy... and please excuses of your populace do not add up. if the usa is chacing terrorists and is allowed to indecriminatly bomb, whats the difference? if usa is allowed to displace (and mind you many to most of these people remain displaced as a direct result) nearly 1 million iraqi civilians, kill hundreds of thousands civilians throughout their middle eastern conquests then i ask why you don't support an international war tribunal to bring some of these terrorists and war criminals to justice...
let me guess... your bias is to strong to admit fault.
not that serbia is clean of terrible acts, but when i see glass house dwelling fools throwing stones i have to wonder... please atleast many of the serbia-side posters as well as many of its citizenry and political attache have admitted wrongs and have been taking large efforts to make ammends and move on. it is unfortuanete that non of the other former jugo nations with blood on their hands is willing to step forward.
these three brothers died doing what they wanted... that was in joining a terrorist organization... it is a shame, but it is reality...
and since us judge says oj didn't do it... then he's innocent, right?
They can "voice concern", but nothing is really going to happen. This didn't make the news of any major US papers two days ago. I doubt that even Obama is being kept appraised of this. In fact, had I not gotten the information here, I wouldn't have even know such an event happened.
"Mike I am surprised to find that you only think in terms of how much attention a case draws instead of how brutal it is."
-- I never said it wasn't deserving of attention, but that there is a clear disconnect between what some here regard as a major American issue and what is (or in this case is not) actually being reported in the USA. I never denied that the murders were brutal and unjust, and like all war crimes regardless of who committed them, the perpetrators need to be found and tried. I'm simply saying that the case is not receiving the attention some claim it is (or should). Some posters are hoping for American to take decisive action (read as anything from political sanctions to air raid over Belgrade). My opinion is that there will be a statement voicing concern that the case remains open, but that's about it.
It's good that the US is concerned. However, they should be concerned equally when Kosovo Albanians or Bosnian Muslims are acquitted for crimes against Serbs. In those cases, their lips are sealed. Nevertheless, it's instructive to see that the Serb prosecution is standing up to appeal this decision. Isn't it interesting that the evil Serbs are fighting for justice for the victims whom themselves came all the way to Serbia to kill Serbs? Boy those Serbs are so evil aren't they. I'm being sarcastic, in case you cannot figure out.
Why is the USA so concerned about KLA fighters who were liquidated in 1999? The USA never brought to trial any of the Albanian KLA criminals that did organ theft from living Serbs and other nationalities in the 1990's. The USA never brought to trial those who destroyed Serbian Cathedrals. The USA never evicted the mosques built over the ruins of destroyed Serbian churches.
Maybe Serbs should learn from Americans or Brits who for one of their kidnapped or murdered hostage take out 2,000 of "those responsible" in Iraq and Afghanistan.
IMAGE SOURCE
37 Komentari
Sortiraj po: