Priština submits application for ICJ hearing

"When you look at the legal aspect Serbia occupyed Kosovo in 1912"
Smulan

You are a very confused person! If Kosovo was occupied 1912 how come Serbs build churches and monasteries there in the 13th century! What proof/evidence do Albanians have of existence before the 13th century? None what so ever!
Kosovo je Srbija!

Canada will the first major Western country to withdraw recognition if the ICJ rules in Serbia's favor. Canada clearly believes the ruling will be in favor of Serbia thus they are distancing themselves from the situation as much as possible.

Kosovo will win this case there is no doubt. Serbia has no arguments but the churches.

When you look at the legal aspect Serbia occupyed Kosovo in 1912 after the ottoman rule left the balkans. Kosovo inside the ottoman rule was an albanian territory living by albanians. Also serbs lived there but has been a minority since at least 15 th century. What I want to say is that Kosovo is the terrirory of the people who lives there and has no right to be ruled by belgrade or Ankara. And if we look on the devolpment of Kosovo since 1912 as an serbian occupied territory Kosovo has been a black hole for 100 years. Serbia havent done nothing to improve the living of the people of Kosovo so the poeple there deserves better. Since at least the 80's albanian have lived in great pressure and aggression from the serbian state and hacen't had no human rights as school in their own laungage.jobs etc. And to mention the moral aspect when serbia ethnic cleaned 800 000 albanians from their home and killed at least 12 000.. There was the time when they lost the moral right to rule Kosovo. Kosovo people have the right to live freely and to rule them self and improve their living.


What arguments does Serbia have ? Because there is churches in Kosovo ? Or maybee because of the 9 % serbian population who lives there `? What right does Serbia have to rule a different popualtion and their land wich they have lived on for centurys ?

I would say the same rights as ottoman has . No Right at all!!

Smulan - The ICJ are not going to be using Albanian history books as evidence. They will look at the facts.

The primary one being that under UN Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of the sovereign territory of Serbia. The Resolution was signed after the war in 1999 and it already took into account events that had taken place.

The debate will hinge on the rights of an ethnic minority to annex territory and declare independence. The UN does not want to help promote chaos throughout the world by supporting this theory.

Then there is the argument that Kosovo is a different/ special case. There is no defining factors to set Kosovo's right to declare independence apart from many other cases around the globe.

Serbia has a different democratic government now, and is rapidly modernising. She has shown all peaceful goodwill in finding a solution over Kosovo and generally integrating with the rest of Europe.

The UN and EU are not going to trash all efforts at modernising by siding squarely with Pristina, especially when relations are becoming more difficult by the day.

The best that Kosovo can hope for is a fudged 'please all' response. But this would be an extremely unwise move by the ICJ, because they more than any other body, are bound to define and reaffirm laws which are paramount to protecting its members (and all of us).

Smulan - No doubt Hollywood will be interested in your new story. You could make a lot of money from your new work of fiction.

A word of advice - learn some real facts and stop spouting Albanian propaganda because the ICJ will see the REAL truth about Kosovo not your contrived version of it. So stop living in fantasy world and come back to reality.

Just to let you know, in 1912 the population was split roughly 50:50, and if the land was Albanian as you claim then why aren't there any Albanian monuments? Serbs have churches which are hundreds and hundreds of years old dotted all around Kosovo! Your argument is pathetic at best and the ICJ will laugh it out of court if the Albanians try to claim what you just wrote.

You'll lose the case - simple.

What arguments does Serbia have ? Because there is churches in Kosovo ? Or maybee because of the 9 % serbian population who lives there `? What right does Serbia have to rule a different popualtion and their land wich they have lived on for centurys ?

I would say the same rights as ottoman has . No Right at all!!
(Smulan, 16 September 2009 11:25)

That could be precisely what gets Serbia over the line if this is taken into account.
How do you explain the population of Serbs before WW2 being roughly the same as the population of Albanians there and now we have less than 10% Serbs?


All that aside, your history lesson will not come into it at all. What is going to be considered is the UDI. Now why would you need UDI if Kosovo did not belong to Serbia in the first place? So the only question that will be answered will be was it legal or illegal. Nothing to do with your version of history at all or who has majority on the ground.

"we all now thet KOSOVO IS HEART OF ALBANIA"

This is apparently a new slogan in Albanian propaganda. I've never seen any Albanian go that crazy over Kosovo in history to call it the "heart of Albania". Once again, Albanian nationalism taking someone else's ideas and using it for their own. Aside from the League of Prizren, I can't find a single thing that would make Kosovo the alleged "heart" of Albania.

You'd think that for the alleged "heart" of an entire race of people, Kosovo would have more than Serbian and Turkish monuments, right?

"Serbia havent done nothing to improve the living of the people of Kosovo"

Have you ever seen the film "Life of Brian", inparticular the "what have the Roman's ever done for us scene" ??

Serbia's argument is a simple one. Kosovo is constitutionally part of Serbia as per UNSC resolution 1244.

Kosovo is Serbian territory and has always been. Albanians were a minority some hundred years ago and now (due to uncontrolable birth rates, imigration from Albania and the expulsion of other minorieies) have become the majority and now claim this territory as their own. In other words, what Albanians are saying is that when a certain people become a majority on someone elses territory (according to international law) they have the right to demand independence. In that case Europe is in big trouble. With an increasing muslim population territorial demands are to be expected.

Kosovo is Serbia! It has always been and it will remain so. And there will never ever be any true peace as long as this fact is neglected! As long as Serbia doesn't recognize Kosovo it can and should treat the territory as its own.

Stop amusing yourselves with history. If you want real history read NON-Serb/Albanian historians.

We Albanians know that Milosh Kopili(Obilic) was an
ALbanian and there are still people in Kosovo (Albanian of course) singing songs for this guy...since 1389.

But even foreign historian centuries ago state what Albanians know.

Read the following book written more than 2 centuries ago and you will get the truth...

"The history of the Turkish, or Ottoman Empire,: from its foundation in 1300" by Vincent Mignot, A. Hawkins, Vol I, 1787, page 35... says

"Whilst he (Sultan) was yet speaking a wounded Albanian who was bitting the ground near them, collected all his force, or rather his rage, to strike at the Sultan, who he knew by the mgnificance of his arms, and prfound respect paid him by his followers"

Serbs occupied Albania in mid 14 century, while the used the local population to fight for them. The same strategy was used by Turks later.

Enlighten yourselves with old foreign sources if you want to find out the truth.

The truth is that UP to at least Aleksinac (SER) , down to Thesaloniki(GRE), Zadar(CRO), Sarajevo (BH, the region was nearly pure (70-90%) of pure ALbanian land from at least 4th Century.

Without going back in hisotry which is pointless i would just like to thanks Peggy for making me laugh with your idea of population make up in Kosovo aroung WW2.
(nikshala, 16 September 2009 14:39)

Oh my Nikshala, you must be drinking the same Kool Aid (the American version of the syrup soft drinks back home) that Syulman, Lazer, PRN, Pejoni have tried. The actual docmuneted surveys that the State Department (your buddies I worked for at one time) used showed that the population was roughly 47% Serb and 53% prior to WWII. So peddle any other numbers you want along with your bretheren.

Also, lets not forget that the poulation shifted because of the mass exodus of many of your relatives from Albania escaping Enver Hoxa and Tito's acceptance of these refugees who would've committed suicide than be sent back to Albania.

Look, stick to the facts, you are not a special case. As I've said before, your persistence about bieng indpenedent has started to open Pandora's box with every little ethnic group demanding theirs around the world. The Great Powers will only tolerate it for so long. But what do you guys care if the Basque want to leave Spain, or the Kurds who number 25 million don't have their own country. No never mid that, you guys WANT YOURS NOW! Your begining to resemble your American masters and their celebrties...

If I were you guys, I would start trying to keep people from leaving Kosovo because of poverty than wait for global handouts during a coming economic depression, or do you guys even care about that? (or know about it?)

Sadly Canada flapped its gums too fast and jumped higher then the Americans told them to. This will be closely watched in the Quebec province, so its better Canada kept its gums shut this time. Even though its just a matter of time before Quebec does another referendum and secede, breaking Canada into two parts (last referendum wit was 50 point something to 49 point something - obvious covert government tampering of votes to prevent instability and the break-up of Canada). Regardless, this ICJ case will be very interesting, as it will craft a new template for resistive and secessionist movements, post global Anglo-American hegemony. Sadly for the K-Albs this will diminish their self-proclaimed power and will force them into real negotiating, resulting in possible partition or a Dayton-like scenario.

Thank you Canada,this is the least you can do, but at least you did it.

It is over now, Kosova is independent, and very soon Kosova will be a part of ALbania.

Smulan - The ICJ are not going to be using Albanian history books as evidence. They will look at the facts.

Just the same, ICJ does not care what Serb historians have on their books.

I am sure they will look into it what is the reality on ground, and those facts will have a bearing their opinion. But, then again is just an opinon that Serbia asked for it, most certanly Albanians did not care for this type of opinion.
Lets see what future will bring!!!

"Or maybee because of the 9 % serbian population who lives there `?"

Actually they are less then 9%, I would guess some 5-6% at most, but they are very good at making noises and make it seem as they are around 10%.

Secondly, who said Canada would participate? And why isnt B92 reporting who is against/pro Kosovo's Independence of those 36 participants, yeah I thought so. B92 is nothing more then DS's newspaper to please the Serbian public.

Right...so Canada has not submitted any written statements for this case and is not participating in the proceedings - whats the point of this report?

Are we gonna get another report tomorrow saying Fiji is not participating in ICJ in support of Kosovo?!

Without going back in hisotry which is pointless i would just like to thanks Peggy for making me laugh with your idea of population make up in Kosovo aroung WW2.

@#4 - Yo udidn't learn much from our Turkish masters did you. If you can be bothered to do some work you'll see that the Turkish census states that at that time all that region was exclusively Serbian. In fact a lot of the Balkans at that time was exclusively Serbian. All that has happened over the years is that the Turks converted a lot, the Croats and Albanians killed a lot and the Albanians are now trying to steal a lot, of Serbian lives and land.

Nikshala,

"if the population at the time was made up of almost 50% Serbs - do you honestly think that K.serbs would have just stood by watching tens of thousands of Albanians moving into 'their' lands and taking over - without resisting in any kind of way?"

There were 3 factors that changed the balance: the refugees, the high birth rate of Albanians compared to Serbs, and yes, many Serbs left because they didn't want to live the peasant lifestyle and moved to Beograd, Nis, etc. But there were MANY families that left due to intimidation or violence over the years. MY family was booted out of Prizren back in the late 1800's (1876 to be exact). So you may part of a point.

BTW, the exodus was much greater than you are lead to believe. I remember visiting the border crossing near St. Naum in Ohrid (now Makedonija) in 1985 and seeing the military confront a boat full of Albanians who were allowed to stay. Do you know what was in the boat? Explosives ready to be fired off if they were turned back. If I saw it there, what do you think was going on up there in the Prokljetije Mountains were there wasn’t any military? Try passing that on to your Kool Aid drinking friends…. there were many more than you are lead to believe. But I agree in part that that alone did not shift the balance...

we all now thet KOSOVO IS HEART OF ALBANIA and we all now thet any thing is bild with usa help it will be ther for longest the world exist just like ISRAEL

Oh Nikshala,

Grasping at straws that are too far to reach. Please don't pervert history further or make us laugh any harder, it is fact that Albanians, by the thousands crossed the border and came over to Kosmet after WW2 - TITO allowed knew this (its in transcripts and historical archives). Further the increase of illegals, Serbs from Kosmet not allowed to return and the high birthrate of K-Albs led to the demographic shift over the decades. Next topic please.

I guess "smulan" as using a swedish nick name, are among a couple of tousand albanians living in southern sweden. This part is known as "Skåne" but could soon be known as "skånA" when they claim what they have laid the ground work for, the criminality and heroine trafficking is at an incredible rate...

I HOPE THEY DO NOT GO BEHIND 600 YEARS IN HISTORY BECAUSE YOU MAY FIND OUT THAT CITY OF NISH WAS PURE ALBANIAN WITH 0% SERBIAN MINORITY.

Tomislav USA,

During Hoxha's regime hardly anyone could enter or exit Albania, let alone hundreds of thousands of albanians as you suggest.

If what you suggest is true, it would mean that a big percentage of albanians living in Kosovo today, were actually born in Albania - anyone over 65 years old.

I all my life in Kosovo I have never met any albanian in Kosovo who was actually born in Albania and moved to Kosovo during and after WW2 -now, just because I havent met any, means nothing, however i can safely state that, that is a case with most Kosovan albanians. While i have heard some stories of albanians moving into Kosovo region from North of Albania 200 or 300 hundred years ago....never heard of any families moving during WW2 - i am sure some did...but certainly not in tens of thousands as you suggest.

if the population at the time was made up of almost 50% serbs - do you honestly think that K.serbs would have just stood by watching tens of thousands of albanians moving into 'their' lands and taking over - without resisting in any kind of way?

Now i am sure that you will suggest that Tito allowed this - but you know very well that serbs would not have allowed that to happen without a fight! Look what they are doing now in North Mitrovica just becase couple of albanians are trying to rebuild their houses.

"The truth is that UP to at least Aleksinac (SER) , down to Thesaloniki(GRE), Zadar(CRO), Sarajevo (BH, the region was nearly pure (70-90%) of pure ALbanian land from at least 4th Century."

PRN whats coming next? are you about to tell us that the Albanians discovered America before the Vikings and also that they colonized Mars maybe? And stop stealing other nations heroes. you just want to steal a drop of serbian glory, a glory that you never had and you will never have!

I can seriously tell all in here that all of us are inflating with wild speculations.

But im sure as daylight will go and come every 12 hours that the churches will be the most loughable scenario to be brought up.

Otherwise more rediculous themes, as the Sorbs in Germany would come quickly up that they immigrated to europe in the 5th centuary, and despite nazzis and all the evil, they keep on growing in number.
http://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/document/sorab/an/i1/i1.html
Obviously Roman churches were there way before that.

Than it would turn into a big cirqus, and that would not look good as it is Serbia who asked for this "opinion".

Im only betting on Kosovo becouse VUK's confidence gave clues already, by applying that he wont accapt the outcome if its not in his favour.

Now i am sure that you will suggest that Tito allowed this - but you know very well that serbs would not have allowed that to happen without a fight! Look what they are doing now in North Mitrovica just becase couple of albanians are trying to rebuild their houses.
(nikshala, 16 September 2009 18:05)

Big difference from then to now. Tito was a dictator and whatever he said went. Nobody dared to deny him, so don't even try to compare that to what is happening today. Actually Serbs of Kosovo are just as oppressed in all other parts of Kosovo as they were before, even more so. Now they are being murdered without anyone even investigating it.
Do you honestly think that if you are allowed to bring all sorts of arguments to ICJ this is not going to be presented as well?

Besides, nothing but one question will matter to ICJ. Was UDI declared legally or ilegally?

No one is going to focus on what took place 100 years ago, or 500 years ago or in the 13th century, to render an opinion on Kosovo.
I really doubt that anyone is foolish enough to introduce such before the courts.
So far just from this site I have discovered about 25 "true" versions of history.

Do these people truly believe the exodus of the ALbanians in Kosovo during WWII?

Oh my God, how little we know of each other, and how brainwashed we are.

There were some 1550 Albanians (their names all known) who successfully illegaly crossed the Kosovo part border in 50 years and absolutely all of them left for western countries. Their names and stories are all in a mini-museum of the organization of communist persecution in Tirana.

Serbian officials know this very well, but apparently they feed you rubbish about mass exodus. And how well it has worked.

There were some 3-4 albanian partizan brigades which cross the border in solidarity with Tito's army and who went all the way to Sanzjak, some 350 albanian partizans lost their lives in these expeditions, but all of the rest returned home.

Now, in the middle ages Serbs were 50%-70% more than Albanians in temrs of population. When the ottoman empire fell in 1912 or so, serbian population was 6-7 times that of Albanians. There were only some 1.5 albanians in the balkans, due to war and conflicts.

K-Alb from some 500,000 in 1912 are 2 milion today, which makes sense and it is dedicated to natural growth only.

Albanians in Albania, which had a lower birth rate (1.9 babies per woman) tripled, from 1.2 milion in 1944 to 3.3 milion in 1994.

So the idea that K-Alb increased in number due to mass exodus of albanians is pure brainwash.

Indeed there is completely the opposite. There were some 4500 K-Alb families which got stuck in Albania during the WWII. They went to work there since Kosovo and Albania was united and the administration and main institutions were in Albania. Even these people could not go back since Hoxha's regime would not allow them, and many of them did not see their families in decades.

Even today in albanian cities like Durres, Fier, etc you will find entire quartes of K-Alb "heritage".

This is just paperwork & "eye-candy". It will not be accepted & will be pushed aside as there are more important issues to address.

The ridiculous comments made by the invaders are showing the world their true colors.

TRUST me - if the US president Obama can call Kanye West an A$$hole, others who have deciding & and a deciding voice in this submission are watching this as well.

Remember - there are leaders that won battles BUT didn't win wars.....CCCC

If i am correct,some radical ultras burned the Canadian embassy in Belgrade way before they recognised Kosovo.
Good enought reason to recognise for them, and thats were they stoped.

Did they catch those uneducated thugs since then?

Denis,

I think you missed my comment about the refugee crossing WAS NOT THE SOLE REASON for the numbers shifting in Kosovo (Read my last comment about Serbs leaving...).

However, you really seem to be downplaying the number that crossed. It seems you are trying to say it was just Kosovo, but you seem to forget the Macedonian and Crna Gora border that had numerous people cross. The numbers were NEVER officially released because Tito knew there would be a backlash by the Slavic population all around the border. Trust me, I know this since I had relatives who worked for the MUP. Even people within both the STATE AND DEFENSE DEPARTMENTS here in the US know that. Wherever you got that bogus number of 1550 is similar to the 12,000+ people supposably killed in 1999 in Kosovo (at most the UN says its between 2,300-4,000 and not all Albanian) and the 100,000+ in Bosnia (the number is well below half of that). I guess throwing out numbers out of the blue is an Albanian hobby it seems.....

Kosovo will win this case there is no doubt. Serbia has no arguments but the churches.

When you look at the legal aspect Serbia occupyed Kosovo in 1912 after the ottoman rule left the balkans. Kosovo inside the ottoman rule was an albanian territory living by albanians. Also serbs lived there but has been a minority since at least 15 th century. What I want to say is that Kosovo is the terrirory of the people who lives there and has no right to be ruled by belgrade or Ankara. And if we look on the devolpment of Kosovo since 1912 as an serbian occupied territory Kosovo has been a black hole for 100 years. Serbia havent done nothing to improve the living of the people of Kosovo so the poeple there deserves better. Since at least the 80's albanian have lived in great pressure and aggression from the serbian state and hacen't had no human rights as school in their own laungage.jobs etc. And to mention the moral aspect when serbia ethnic cleaned 800 000 albanians from their home and killed at least 12 000.. There was the time when they lost the moral right to rule Kosovo. Kosovo people have the right to live freely and to rule them self and improve their living.


What arguments does Serbia have ? Because there is churches in Kosovo ? Or maybee because of the 9 % serbian population who lives there `? What right does Serbia have to rule a different popualtion and their land wich they have lived on for centurys ?

I would say the same rights as ottoman has . No Right at all!!

we all now thet KOSOVO IS HEART OF ALBANIA and we all now thet any thing is bild with usa help it will be ther for longest the world exist just like ISRAEL

It is over now, Kosova is independent, and very soon Kosova will be a part of ALbania.

Stop amusing yourselves with history. If you want real history read NON-Serb/Albanian historians.

We Albanians know that Milosh Kopili(Obilic) was an
ALbanian and there are still people in Kosovo (Albanian of course) singing songs for this guy...since 1389.

But even foreign historian centuries ago state what Albanians know.

Read the following book written more than 2 centuries ago and you will get the truth...

"The history of the Turkish, or Ottoman Empire,: from its foundation in 1300" by Vincent Mignot, A. Hawkins, Vol I, 1787, page 35... says

"Whilst he (Sultan) was yet speaking a wounded Albanian who was bitting the ground near them, collected all his force, or rather his rage, to strike at the Sultan, who he knew by the mgnificance of his arms, and prfound respect paid him by his followers"

Serbs occupied Albania in mid 14 century, while the used the local population to fight for them. The same strategy was used by Turks later.

Enlighten yourselves with old foreign sources if you want to find out the truth.

The truth is that UP to at least Aleksinac (SER) , down to Thesaloniki(GRE), Zadar(CRO), Sarajevo (BH, the region was nearly pure (70-90%) of pure ALbanian land from at least 4th Century.

"Or maybee because of the 9 % serbian population who lives there `?"

Actually they are less then 9%, I would guess some 5-6% at most, but they are very good at making noises and make it seem as they are around 10%.

Secondly, who said Canada would participate? And why isnt B92 reporting who is against/pro Kosovo's Independence of those 36 participants, yeah I thought so. B92 is nothing more then DS's newspaper to please the Serbian public.

Smulan - The ICJ are not going to be using Albanian history books as evidence. They will look at the facts.

Just the same, ICJ does not care what Serb historians have on their books.

I am sure they will look into it what is the reality on ground, and those facts will have a bearing their opinion. But, then again is just an opinon that Serbia asked for it, most certanly Albanians did not care for this type of opinion.
Lets see what future will bring!!!

"When you look at the legal aspect Serbia occupyed Kosovo in 1912"
Smulan

You are a very confused person! If Kosovo was occupied 1912 how come Serbs build churches and monasteries there in the 13th century! What proof/evidence do Albanians have of existence before the 13th century? None what so ever!
Kosovo je Srbija!

Smulan - No doubt Hollywood will be interested in your new story. You could make a lot of money from your new work of fiction.

A word of advice - learn some real facts and stop spouting Albanian propaganda because the ICJ will see the REAL truth about Kosovo not your contrived version of it. So stop living in fantasy world and come back to reality.

Just to let you know, in 1912 the population was split roughly 50:50, and if the land was Albanian as you claim then why aren't there any Albanian monuments? Serbs have churches which are hundreds and hundreds of years old dotted all around Kosovo! Your argument is pathetic at best and the ICJ will laugh it out of court if the Albanians try to claim what you just wrote.

You'll lose the case - simple.

Right...so Canada has not submitted any written statements for this case and is not participating in the proceedings - whats the point of this report?

Are we gonna get another report tomorrow saying Fiji is not participating in ICJ in support of Kosovo?!

Without going back in hisotry which is pointless i would just like to thanks Peggy for making me laugh with your idea of population make up in Kosovo aroung WW2.

Kosovo is Serbian territory and has always been. Albanians were a minority some hundred years ago and now (due to uncontrolable birth rates, imigration from Albania and the expulsion of other minorieies) have become the majority and now claim this territory as their own. In other words, what Albanians are saying is that when a certain people become a majority on someone elses territory (according to international law) they have the right to demand independence. In that case Europe is in big trouble. With an increasing muslim population territorial demands are to be expected.

Kosovo is Serbia! It has always been and it will remain so. And there will never ever be any true peace as long as this fact is neglected! As long as Serbia doesn't recognize Kosovo it can and should treat the territory as its own.

I HOPE THEY DO NOT GO BEHIND 600 YEARS IN HISTORY BECAUSE YOU MAY FIND OUT THAT CITY OF NISH WAS PURE ALBANIAN WITH 0% SERBIAN MINORITY.

Smulan - The ICJ are not going to be using Albanian history books as evidence. They will look at the facts.

The primary one being that under UN Resolution 1244 Kosovo is part of the sovereign territory of Serbia. The Resolution was signed after the war in 1999 and it already took into account events that had taken place.

The debate will hinge on the rights of an ethnic minority to annex territory and declare independence. The UN does not want to help promote chaos throughout the world by supporting this theory.

Then there is the argument that Kosovo is a different/ special case. There is no defining factors to set Kosovo's right to declare independence apart from many other cases around the globe.

Serbia has a different democratic government now, and is rapidly modernising. She has shown all peaceful goodwill in finding a solution over Kosovo and generally integrating with the rest of Europe.

The UN and EU are not going to trash all efforts at modernising by siding squarely with Pristina, especially when relations are becoming more difficult by the day.

The best that Kosovo can hope for is a fudged 'please all' response. But this would be an extremely unwise move by the ICJ, because they more than any other body, are bound to define and reaffirm laws which are paramount to protecting its members (and all of us).

"Serbia havent done nothing to improve the living of the people of Kosovo"

Have you ever seen the film "Life of Brian", inparticular the "what have the Roman's ever done for us scene" ??

Serbia's argument is a simple one. Kosovo is constitutionally part of Serbia as per UNSC resolution 1244.

What arguments does Serbia have ? Because there is churches in Kosovo ? Or maybee because of the 9 % serbian population who lives there `? What right does Serbia have to rule a different popualtion and their land wich they have lived on for centurys ?

I would say the same rights as ottoman has . No Right at all!!
(Smulan, 16 September 2009 11:25)

That could be precisely what gets Serbia over the line if this is taken into account.
How do you explain the population of Serbs before WW2 being roughly the same as the population of Albanians there and now we have less than 10% Serbs?


All that aside, your history lesson will not come into it at all. What is going to be considered is the UDI. Now why would you need UDI if Kosovo did not belong to Serbia in the first place? So the only question that will be answered will be was it legal or illegal. Nothing to do with your version of history at all or who has majority on the ground.

I can seriously tell all in here that all of us are inflating with wild speculations.

But im sure as daylight will go and come every 12 hours that the churches will be the most loughable scenario to be brought up.

Otherwise more rediculous themes, as the Sorbs in Germany would come quickly up that they immigrated to europe in the 5th centuary, and despite nazzis and all the evil, they keep on growing in number.
http://www.uoc.edu/euromosaic/web/document/sorab/an/i1/i1.html
Obviously Roman churches were there way before that.

Than it would turn into a big cirqus, and that would not look good as it is Serbia who asked for this "opinion".

Im only betting on Kosovo becouse VUK's confidence gave clues already, by applying that he wont accapt the outcome if its not in his favour.

Tomislav USA,

During Hoxha's regime hardly anyone could enter or exit Albania, let alone hundreds of thousands of albanians as you suggest.

If what you suggest is true, it would mean that a big percentage of albanians living in Kosovo today, were actually born in Albania - anyone over 65 years old.

I all my life in Kosovo I have never met any albanian in Kosovo who was actually born in Albania and moved to Kosovo during and after WW2 -now, just because I havent met any, means nothing, however i can safely state that, that is a case with most Kosovan albanians. While i have heard some stories of albanians moving into Kosovo region from North of Albania 200 or 300 hundred years ago....never heard of any families moving during WW2 - i am sure some did...but certainly not in tens of thousands as you suggest.

if the population at the time was made up of almost 50% serbs - do you honestly think that K.serbs would have just stood by watching tens of thousands of albanians moving into 'their' lands and taking over - without resisting in any kind of way?

Now i am sure that you will suggest that Tito allowed this - but you know very well that serbs would not have allowed that to happen without a fight! Look what they are doing now in North Mitrovica just becase couple of albanians are trying to rebuild their houses.

Canada will the first major Western country to withdraw recognition if the ICJ rules in Serbia's favor. Canada clearly believes the ruling will be in favor of Serbia thus they are distancing themselves from the situation as much as possible.

If i am correct,some radical ultras burned the Canadian embassy in Belgrade way before they recognised Kosovo.
Good enought reason to recognise for them, and thats were they stoped.

Did they catch those uneducated thugs since then?

Without going back in hisotry which is pointless i would just like to thanks Peggy for making me laugh with your idea of population make up in Kosovo aroung WW2.
(nikshala, 16 September 2009 14:39)

Oh my Nikshala, you must be drinking the same Kool Aid (the American version of the syrup soft drinks back home) that Syulman, Lazer, PRN, Pejoni have tried. The actual docmuneted surveys that the State Department (your buddies I worked for at one time) used showed that the population was roughly 47% Serb and 53% prior to WWII. So peddle any other numbers you want along with your bretheren.

Also, lets not forget that the poulation shifted because of the mass exodus of many of your relatives from Albania escaping Enver Hoxa and Tito's acceptance of these refugees who would've committed suicide than be sent back to Albania.

Look, stick to the facts, you are not a special case. As I've said before, your persistence about bieng indpenedent has started to open Pandora's box with every little ethnic group demanding theirs around the world. The Great Powers will only tolerate it for so long. But what do you guys care if the Basque want to leave Spain, or the Kurds who number 25 million don't have their own country. No never mid that, you guys WANT YOURS NOW! Your begining to resemble your American masters and their celebrties...

If I were you guys, I would start trying to keep people from leaving Kosovo because of poverty than wait for global handouts during a coming economic depression, or do you guys even care about that? (or know about it?)

Sadly Canada flapped its gums too fast and jumped higher then the Americans told them to. This will be closely watched in the Quebec province, so its better Canada kept its gums shut this time. Even though its just a matter of time before Quebec does another referendum and secede, breaking Canada into two parts (last referendum wit was 50 point something to 49 point something - obvious covert government tampering of votes to prevent instability and the break-up of Canada). Regardless, this ICJ case will be very interesting, as it will craft a new template for resistive and secessionist movements, post global Anglo-American hegemony. Sadly for the K-Albs this will diminish their self-proclaimed power and will force them into real negotiating, resulting in possible partition or a Dayton-like scenario.

Thank you Canada,this is the least you can do, but at least you did it.

@#4 - Yo udidn't learn much from our Turkish masters did you. If you can be bothered to do some work you'll see that the Turkish census states that at that time all that region was exclusively Serbian. In fact a lot of the Balkans at that time was exclusively Serbian. All that has happened over the years is that the Turks converted a lot, the Croats and Albanians killed a lot and the Albanians are now trying to steal a lot, of Serbian lives and land.

"we all now thet KOSOVO IS HEART OF ALBANIA"

This is apparently a new slogan in Albanian propaganda. I've never seen any Albanian go that crazy over Kosovo in history to call it the "heart of Albania". Once again, Albanian nationalism taking someone else's ideas and using it for their own. Aside from the League of Prizren, I can't find a single thing that would make Kosovo the alleged "heart" of Albania.

You'd think that for the alleged "heart" of an entire race of people, Kosovo would have more than Serbian and Turkish monuments, right?

Do these people truly believe the exodus of the ALbanians in Kosovo during WWII?

Oh my God, how little we know of each other, and how brainwashed we are.

There were some 1550 Albanians (their names all known) who successfully illegaly crossed the Kosovo part border in 50 years and absolutely all of them left for western countries. Their names and stories are all in a mini-museum of the organization of communist persecution in Tirana.

Serbian officials know this very well, but apparently they feed you rubbish about mass exodus. And how well it has worked.

There were some 3-4 albanian partizan brigades which cross the border in solidarity with Tito's army and who went all the way to Sanzjak, some 350 albanian partizans lost their lives in these expeditions, but all of the rest returned home.

Now, in the middle ages Serbs were 50%-70% more than Albanians in temrs of population. When the ottoman empire fell in 1912 or so, serbian population was 6-7 times that of Albanians. There were only some 1.5 albanians in the balkans, due to war and conflicts.

K-Alb from some 500,000 in 1912 are 2 milion today, which makes sense and it is dedicated to natural growth only.

Albanians in Albania, which had a lower birth rate (1.9 babies per woman) tripled, from 1.2 milion in 1944 to 3.3 milion in 1994.

So the idea that K-Alb increased in number due to mass exodus of albanians is pure brainwash.

Indeed there is completely the opposite. There were some 4500 K-Alb families which got stuck in Albania during the WWII. They went to work there since Kosovo and Albania was united and the administration and main institutions were in Albania. Even these people could not go back since Hoxha's regime would not allow them, and many of them did not see their families in decades.

Even today in albanian cities like Durres, Fier, etc you will find entire quartes of K-Alb "heritage".

Oh Nikshala,

Grasping at straws that are too far to reach. Please don't pervert history further or make us laugh any harder, it is fact that Albanians, by the thousands crossed the border and came over to Kosmet after WW2 - TITO allowed knew this (its in transcripts and historical archives). Further the increase of illegals, Serbs from Kosmet not allowed to return and the high birthrate of K-Albs led to the demographic shift over the decades. Next topic please.

I guess "smulan" as using a swedish nick name, are among a couple of tousand albanians living in southern sweden. This part is known as "Skåne" but could soon be known as "skånA" when they claim what they have laid the ground work for, the criminality and heroine trafficking is at an incredible rate...

Nikshala,

"if the population at the time was made up of almost 50% Serbs - do you honestly think that K.serbs would have just stood by watching tens of thousands of Albanians moving into 'their' lands and taking over - without resisting in any kind of way?"

There were 3 factors that changed the balance: the refugees, the high birth rate of Albanians compared to Serbs, and yes, many Serbs left because they didn't want to live the peasant lifestyle and moved to Beograd, Nis, etc. But there were MANY families that left due to intimidation or violence over the years. MY family was booted out of Prizren back in the late 1800's (1876 to be exact). So you may part of a point.

BTW, the exodus was much greater than you are lead to believe. I remember visiting the border crossing near St. Naum in Ohrid (now Makedonija) in 1985 and seeing the military confront a boat full of Albanians who were allowed to stay. Do you know what was in the boat? Explosives ready to be fired off if they were turned back. If I saw it there, what do you think was going on up there in the Prokljetije Mountains were there wasn’t any military? Try passing that on to your Kool Aid drinking friends…. there were many more than you are lead to believe. But I agree in part that that alone did not shift the balance...

No one is going to focus on what took place 100 years ago, or 500 years ago or in the 13th century, to render an opinion on Kosovo.
I really doubt that anyone is foolish enough to introduce such before the courts.
So far just from this site I have discovered about 25 "true" versions of history.

Now i am sure that you will suggest that Tito allowed this - but you know very well that serbs would not have allowed that to happen without a fight! Look what they are doing now in North Mitrovica just becase couple of albanians are trying to rebuild their houses.
(nikshala, 16 September 2009 18:05)

Big difference from then to now. Tito was a dictator and whatever he said went. Nobody dared to deny him, so don't even try to compare that to what is happening today. Actually Serbs of Kosovo are just as oppressed in all other parts of Kosovo as they were before, even more so. Now they are being murdered without anyone even investigating it.
Do you honestly think that if you are allowed to bring all sorts of arguments to ICJ this is not going to be presented as well?

Besides, nothing but one question will matter to ICJ. Was UDI declared legally or ilegally?

"The truth is that UP to at least Aleksinac (SER) , down to Thesaloniki(GRE), Zadar(CRO), Sarajevo (BH, the region was nearly pure (70-90%) of pure ALbanian land from at least 4th Century."

PRN whats coming next? are you about to tell us that the Albanians discovered America before the Vikings and also that they colonized Mars maybe? And stop stealing other nations heroes. you just want to steal a drop of serbian glory, a glory that you never had and you will never have!

Denis,

I think you missed my comment about the refugee crossing WAS NOT THE SOLE REASON for the numbers shifting in Kosovo (Read my last comment about Serbs leaving...).

However, you really seem to be downplaying the number that crossed. It seems you are trying to say it was just Kosovo, but you seem to forget the Macedonian and Crna Gora border that had numerous people cross. The numbers were NEVER officially released because Tito knew there would be a backlash by the Slavic population all around the border. Trust me, I know this since I had relatives who worked for the MUP. Even people within both the STATE AND DEFENSE DEPARTMENTS here in the US know that. Wherever you got that bogus number of 1550 is similar to the 12,000+ people supposably killed in 1999 in Kosovo (at most the UN says its between 2,300-4,000 and not all Albanian) and the 100,000+ in Bosnia (the number is well below half of that). I guess throwing out numbers out of the blue is an Albanian hobby it seems.....

This is just paperwork & "eye-candy". It will not be accepted & will be pushed aside as there are more important issues to address.

The ridiculous comments made by the invaders are showing the world their true colors.

TRUST me - if the US president Obama can call Kanye West an A$$hole, others who have deciding & and a deciding voice in this submission are watching this as well.

Remember - there are leaders that won battles BUT didn't win wars.....CCCC