""The United States is committed to seeing Serbia become both a regional leader and an active, integrated member in Euro-Atlantic institutions."
[link]
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 20:19) "
I absolutely do not care about what the US are committed to - Serbia will rise again and nobody can prevent that.
as for premature dreams of being a regional leader, or like our dear k-albanian friends dream of being the biggest population in Macedonia, Serbia or the whole of southeastern europe...
keep dreaming, Serbia is better than that.
truth has no owner, and truth will always prevail, just like a few days ago when the officials admitted that Milorad Cavic was the first to touch the pad in the 100-meter-final in Beijing.
quite nice, for a guy from a "landlocked" country, isn´t it? =)
ps: always keep in mind that Montenegro is just another serbian state.
switzerland is a landlocked country and won the americas cup sailing (the most expensive sports event in the world) off new zealand twice ! . we are talking about big business and infastructure here and some people are squabling about who is a swimmer or not ? what ? but just to clear it up ... any of you albanians out there who belive you are the superior macho strongmen , you are all welcome here in london for the 2012 olympics to show us what your made of .
On that issue - you are absolutely right. Deep down inside alot of people still cling to nostalgia, everyone knows that there is more that binds than that divides...
Selling a port does not mean that Serbia has sovereignty over that piece of land.
Every country has the right to confiscate property on grounds of national security or "public good" so there's nothing Montenegro has to fear, should Serbia decide to "act up".
As a matter of fact, I would wish more cross-border exchanges like these happen all across the Balkans.
Peter and Lenard.
-----------------
With regard to under achievements in sports...
When I was growing up in Tirana, professions in sports and the military were considered to be inferior.
The main goal/pride of the parents was to send their kids to the university, preferably in prestigious fields such as engineering, science and economics. Only the truly gifted/stubborn kids or the truly mediocre students would go to the sports academy.
The military used to be treated very similarly too.
So needless to say, athletes weren't given much respect.
I don't think such attitudes have changed much even in the present day.
Most Albanians parents still see a sports career as a waste of time and potential.
I welcome any business co-operation between Balkan states. Only economic advancements will rid the region of ethnic hatred. Despite our differences we are closer than we'd like to think in our mentality, traditions and culture. I can have a conversation with a Serb any day, whereas with Americans I can't even though I've been living in NYC for 15 years now.
Sorry my Serbian brothers,but as we say here in Montenegro:
"If we are brothers,that doesn`t mean that our wallets are sisters!"
With the construction of the Bar-Belgrade highway(the construction of the Montenegrin section will start this autumn)Central and Eastern Europe will be open for this port for mass transit which will increase its value big time.
So in my opinion only a minor stake(perhaps 10-15%) should be sold to a realistic price,preferably to Serbia which will be a key user of this port.
The profits must stay here in Montenegro and nowhere else...
Buying the Port is the proper focus .Serbia must now look forward with head held high and focus on economy and Kosovo as forieng policy.We were forced to the ground but are standing up slowly but surly.There are more Albanians on this site day by day spewing hate,the weak tend to hate the strong that is natural but we Serbs must not get involved in that hate because it will bring us down to their level and we all know where that is.
Stay positive,charming and liberty loving,remeber our ancestors and understand that Crna Gora will in the future return to her position as the beacon of Serbdom.NWO can force us Serbs apart but only we can once again unite and stay united.I have to stay an optomist in these times that try mens souls.Serbs are sharks in the water the last month should tell the world that.3 GOLD Bravo!
"Serbia has the potential to be a regional leader, because it is located on the crossroads of Europe and has good geographical ties with Corridor 10 and the Danube River."
http://f1.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=10&dd=26&nav_id=37575
"The United States is committed to seeing Serbia become both a regional leader and an active, integrated member in Euro-Atlantic institutions."
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/2008-10-23-voa4.cfm
Can someone explain why they have Turkish construction companies in 1st place? You'd think they'd hire more local companies in Serbia and Montenegro to keep more jobs and profit in the countries. Very simple the Turks will hire the Albanians as workers at half the price so its a win win situation for everyone. But lets not forget the corruption that will be ramped on all sides lose lose. No simple answer.
i want to make a offer for the port of montenegro.i want the port for 5 euro? please b92 tell the montenegri governament to send me an email if that offer is good for them .thank you arta i really like you .keep it up
Poor Serbia, trying to be relevant--even as it seeks more IMF funds! From Stratfor: "
The reality today is that Belgrade does not command the same geopolitical relevance as it did as when it was the capital of Yugoslavia. With a population of roughly 8 million people, Serbia is not much larger than Switzerland, has no sea access and is confined to a north-south axis of territory on the Balkans that makes it crucial only as a link to Greece.
In 1989, Belgrade was the capital of a country of 23 million people, had a large Adriatic coastline, possessed the fourth largest military in Europe (and probably the third most effective after the Soviet Union and Turkey) and had an economy three times the size of Serbia’s present economy. Yugoslavia was not just politically important because it was a Communist country with good relations with the West, but because it possessed considerable geographic and demographic advantages"
P.S. A port with concession rights, is not a "real" port.
How is it that an article that talks about Montenegro and the possibility of Serbia acquiring a port suddenly generate another flood of comments about how theoretically awesome Albanians are/aren't?
(Mike, 26 August 2009 17:58)
Good question. More interestingly, I wonder why Albanian nationalists (trolls) are always on here, posting a comment 24-7 regarding many things that have nothing to do with Kosovo.
Maybe Russia and Serbia can buy it together and finance a new freeway and railline from Belgrade to Bar. I am sure the average common Montenegrins will be happy with the extra trade and activities (plus employment) that it may bring. However, I am afraid that the EU and the US will pay certain politicians to block any deal or sale.
We should take loans from russia, china, etc to buy as much as possible in montenegro and RS. in RS we're already doing it. loan's a loan and it's not a good thing but strategic buying is always worth it. bar port that's a good idea but i'd also invest heavily in say winter resorts in northern montenegro or energy there or just plain property.
'Very simple the Croatians taught you to well'
Troll away lenard :) but you mean in yugoslavia right? ok so lets put in perspective what yugoslavia really was.
We serbs had our first kindgdom in 11th century and empire 200ish years later. in 1918 we took a bunch of european kurds such as croats, slovenes and bosnian muslims who never in history had any kind of state and gave them equal status in our kingdom! and over decades we serbs slowly taught them what statehood is, they looked at us and learned, and now they're nations! Well kudos to us serbs. But lenard dont forget to say thank you sometime.
How is it that an article that talks about Montenegro and the possibility of Serbia acquiring a port suddenly generate another flood of comments about how theoretically awesome Albanians are/aren't?
"So Serbs are not water people? How come Serbia is World Champions at Waterpolo? Albania is surrounded by sea and can't even produce a good swimmer.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 11:12)"
True and Albania has never even won a single Olympic medal of any colour. The only Albanians to win medals have been for Yugoslavia. An example is Aziz Salihu.
KosovoUSA "Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???" that's easy - Serbia. It can transport it's goods overland whereas Kosovo has no exports and never will (apart from criminal enterprise).
You're right, I can't remember a single time when I have seen Albania achieve anything in sports.
What is it with them? They can't use the isolation argument, because North Korea and Cuba have had great sportsman, they can't use poverty, there are many African states who consistently achieve.
"Very interesting when you consider that Montenegro does recognize Kosovo."
John
Yes "John", Montenegro has recognized Kosovo but how come Podgorica don't want to open an embassy in Kosovo? They recognized under pressure, not because they really wanted to. Montenegro got better access to the EU by recognizing. It's not that Kosovo has anything to offer Montenegro.
It's not about sea access but how qualified the people are living in that country.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 14:21)
Correctly, and Albania was along Cyprus the only country in Europe which GDP was growing, and that despite of the crisis.
Btw. you shouldn't compare with a country like Switzerland which can rely on his financial resources accumulated in the whole 20th century with 3rd World countries like Somalia or Haiti (btw. both don't regard Kosovo's independence). A port is a very important step for the development of a country when it comes to international relations. Kosovo has one and now Serbia wants one, too. Very interesting when you consider that Montenegro does recognize Kosovo.
Why not a joint venture with Russia? Russians already own most of Monte negro so obtaining the port together with Serbia is logical in all aspects.
Im sure the western powers will do everything to prevent their local client in Podgorica even considering such a thing, but Russia has the money and thats all that counts...
"Montenegro should be very wary selling it. When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins."
Lenard
You mean just like Kosovo! Where albanians were let in by kind serbs and now albanians say it belongs to them. I see what you mean!
Access to the sea will bolster international trade and will enhance the economic outlook in many sectors, not only in Serbia but the entire region. Vital infrastructure in the form of a few lane highways connecting through the rough mountainous terrains or rail improvements will also be needed. Regardless should this pan out in Serbia's interest it'll be great for everyone.
Switzerland is landlocked and still one of the strongest economies in Europe. Hatiti is surrounded by sea and one of the poorest nations on the planet. Somalia and Albania have sea access but still it's poor and undeveloped. It's not about sea access but how qualified the people are living in that country.
Montenegro is selling the port.
Serbia wants to buy it.
Many people on the forum are - laughing,saying serbs are not water people, kosovo is so much better because we have a port, saying 'don't trust the serbs', it was never montenegro's to begin with etc.
Montengro is selling the port so it is open to any purchaser. So it goes...
Albania is surrounded by sea and can't even produce a good swimmer.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 11:12)
Ok they have mountains and have never produced a good skier.But in general albanians and sports are a far cry.(I know they will come up know with Tie Domi and their 10 men draw against portugal as well as victory against Greece 2-1 after EC in 2004 but these are little battles and you have to win the war)They have never won a single olympic medal,never taken part in any soccer WC or EC ,never had an NBA player or even a participant in Tennis Masters or Grand Slam event and so on.Compared to their population adequate climate and good natural conditions (mountains ,sea) they are the biggest underachivers in Europe.
Lenard,
Well the proud croat again.Best firefighting fleet and most educated water polo proffesors.It seems anyway that serbs proved to be excellent students and overtook their masters.So despite being not allowed to compete in team sports out of propaganda reasons(german preesure)at the beginning of 90s Serbs manged to win 3 EC titles(hungarians 2) since the break up of YU.Maybe next year in Zagreb you can finally win one.As to Wc titles during the same period:Hu 1 SRb 2 Cro 1.And finally olympic games :well that seems to be hungarian monopoly.Otherwise all my respect to both croatian and serb ballplayers.Your achievements are unique compared to your populations.Dinaric type is perfect both menttally and physically for these kind of sports as well as swimming.For years I wondered why serbs do not have excellent tennis players and swimmers.Well seems they have arrived.I believe that in one generation based on succes of Draganija and CAvic you both will have plenty of leading swimmers and in some years among top 10 atp players there will be at least 5-6 serbs and croats.It is really amazing to see how many extra talents at soccer you both can produce and the same goes for handball(rather croats)volleyball(rather serbs),and basketball and needless to say water polo.And although currenly you are not the best at ice hockey but both making great progress given that this is a game where slavs are good and you have the spirit,winning mentality and strength required for this game my prediction is that in some years you will be among the best here as well despite not having traditions.
Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???
(Kosova-USA, 26 August 2009 13:48)
Serbia in UN is Kosovo No!!!
And what is kosovo gross and unemployment numbers like???
Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???
I guess the croats also taught us how to play soccer, tennis, volleyball, basketball, tabletennis, how to swim and all other sports Serbs are masters at?
You shouldn't worry your little head about us Serbs. We are more than capable of taking care of our selves. What you should be concerned about is how to make a future for your own people rather then pointing fingers at others.
aRTA - "Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and ..." Hahahahaa, you make me laugh. What else belongs to Albanians? Maybe an Albanian discovered the US or Australia. i'm waiting to see you lay your claim to all of Africa seeing as humans descended from Africa and migrated to the rest of the world - but of course Albanians were the FIRST humans around so naturally they own EVERYTHING.
Lenard - "When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins." You could say that about any economic asset a country holds but if you took that attitude where would the investment come from (i'm speaking in general terms here, not just about Serbia and the port)?
Serbs have won medals in swimming and water polo in world competitions. Plus there are 30% of Montenegrins who consider themselves ethnic Serbs and Serbs were living on the Dalmatian coast already in the 6th and 7th centuries and in that same period. Not to mention Serbs historically living around rivers as well.
"above all Turkish construction companies"
Can someone explain why they have Turkish construction companies in 1st place? You'd think they'd hire more local companies in Serbia and Montenegro to keep more jobs and profit in the countries.
So Serbs are not water people? How come Serbia is World Champions at Waterpolo. Very simple the Croatians taught you to well. Croatians are and have been many times European also the champions of the world. Seriously how will Serbia afford it when it needs IMF loans just to stay afloat.
Serbia eyes Montenegro's largest port. Montenegro should be very wary selling it. When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins.
"Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and...
aRTA
Well dear aRTA in that case I guess you support giving back your masters continent of North America to the native Americans, after all, it wasn't theirs to begin with.
Infrastructure Minister Milutin Mrkonjić on Tuesday said that Serbia is very interested in buying the port of Bar in Montenegro."
Probably means buying the concession right for xx years. Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and ...
Hahaha so they can invite their friends and tell them come to the "serbien beach" oh serbiens are not water people to handle the sea, it should stay that way.
"Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and...
aRTA
Well dear aRTA in that case I guess you support giving back your masters continent of North America to the native Americans, after all, it wasn't theirs to begin with.
I guess the croats also taught us how to play soccer, tennis, volleyball, basketball, tabletennis, how to swim and all other sports Serbs are masters at?
You shouldn't worry your little head about us Serbs. We are more than capable of taking care of our selves. What you should be concerned about is how to make a future for your own people rather then pointing fingers at others.
Serbs have won medals in swimming and water polo in world competitions. Plus there are 30% of Montenegrins who consider themselves ethnic Serbs and Serbs were living on the Dalmatian coast already in the 6th and 7th centuries and in that same period. Not to mention Serbs historically living around rivers as well.
"above all Turkish construction companies"
Can someone explain why they have Turkish construction companies in 1st place? You'd think they'd hire more local companies in Serbia and Montenegro to keep more jobs and profit in the countries.
"Montenegro should be very wary selling it. When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins."
Lenard
You mean just like Kosovo! Where albanians were let in by kind serbs and now albanians say it belongs to them. I see what you mean!
Access to the sea will bolster international trade and will enhance the economic outlook in many sectors, not only in Serbia but the entire region. Vital infrastructure in the form of a few lane highways connecting through the rough mountainous terrains or rail improvements will also be needed. Regardless should this pan out in Serbia's interest it'll be great for everyone.
How is it that an article that talks about Montenegro and the possibility of Serbia acquiring a port suddenly generate another flood of comments about how theoretically awesome Albanians are/aren't?
Albania is surrounded by sea and can't even produce a good swimmer.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 11:12)
Ok they have mountains and have never produced a good skier.But in general albanians and sports are a far cry.(I know they will come up know with Tie Domi and their 10 men draw against portugal as well as victory against Greece 2-1 after EC in 2004 but these are little battles and you have to win the war)They have never won a single olympic medal,never taken part in any soccer WC or EC ,never had an NBA player or even a participant in Tennis Masters or Grand Slam event and so on.Compared to their population adequate climate and good natural conditions (mountains ,sea) they are the biggest underachivers in Europe.
Lenard,
Well the proud croat again.Best firefighting fleet and most educated water polo proffesors.It seems anyway that serbs proved to be excellent students and overtook their masters.So despite being not allowed to compete in team sports out of propaganda reasons(german preesure)at the beginning of 90s Serbs manged to win 3 EC titles(hungarians 2) since the break up of YU.Maybe next year in Zagreb you can finally win one.As to Wc titles during the same period:Hu 1 SRb 2 Cro 1.And finally olympic games :well that seems to be hungarian monopoly.Otherwise all my respect to both croatian and serb ballplayers.Your achievements are unique compared to your populations.Dinaric type is perfect both menttally and physically for these kind of sports as well as swimming.For years I wondered why serbs do not have excellent tennis players and swimmers.Well seems they have arrived.I believe that in one generation based on succes of Draganija and CAvic you both will have plenty of leading swimmers and in some years among top 10 atp players there will be at least 5-6 serbs and croats.It is really amazing to see how many extra talents at soccer you both can produce and the same goes for handball(rather croats)volleyball(rather serbs),and basketball and needless to say water polo.And although currenly you are not the best at ice hockey but both making great progress given that this is a game where slavs are good and you have the spirit,winning mentality and strength required for this game my prediction is that in some years you will be among the best here as well despite not having traditions.
Switzerland is landlocked and still one of the strongest economies in Europe. Hatiti is surrounded by sea and one of the poorest nations on the planet. Somalia and Albania have sea access but still it's poor and undeveloped. It's not about sea access but how qualified the people are living in that country.
"Very interesting when you consider that Montenegro does recognize Kosovo."
John
Yes "John", Montenegro has recognized Kosovo but how come Podgorica don't want to open an embassy in Kosovo? They recognized under pressure, not because they really wanted to. Montenegro got better access to the EU by recognizing. It's not that Kosovo has anything to offer Montenegro.
aRTA - "Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and ..." Hahahahaa, you make me laugh. What else belongs to Albanians? Maybe an Albanian discovered the US or Australia. i'm waiting to see you lay your claim to all of Africa seeing as humans descended from Africa and migrated to the rest of the world - but of course Albanians were the FIRST humans around so naturally they own EVERYTHING.
Lenard - "When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins." You could say that about any economic asset a country holds but if you took that attitude where would the investment come from (i'm speaking in general terms here, not just about Serbia and the port)?
Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???
(Kosova-USA, 26 August 2009 13:48)
Serbia in UN is Kosovo No!!!
And what is kosovo gross and unemployment numbers like???
How is it that an article that talks about Montenegro and the possibility of Serbia acquiring a port suddenly generate another flood of comments about how theoretically awesome Albanians are/aren't?
(Mike, 26 August 2009 17:58)
Good question. More interestingly, I wonder why Albanian nationalists (trolls) are always on here, posting a comment 24-7 regarding many things that have nothing to do with Kosovo.
"So Serbs are not water people? How come Serbia is World Champions at Waterpolo? Albania is surrounded by sea and can't even produce a good swimmer.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 11:12)"
True and Albania has never even won a single Olympic medal of any colour. The only Albanians to win medals have been for Yugoslavia. An example is Aziz Salihu.
"Serbia has the potential to be a regional leader, because it is located on the crossroads of Europe and has good geographical ties with Corridor 10 and the Danube River."
http://f1.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=10&dd=26&nav_id=37575
"The United States is committed to seeing Serbia become both a regional leader and an active, integrated member in Euro-Atlantic institutions."
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/2008-10-23-voa4.cfm
Buying the Port is the proper focus .Serbia must now look forward with head held high and focus on economy and Kosovo as forieng policy.We were forced to the ground but are standing up slowly but surly.There are more Albanians on this site day by day spewing hate,the weak tend to hate the strong that is natural but we Serbs must not get involved in that hate because it will bring us down to their level and we all know where that is.
Stay positive,charming and liberty loving,remeber our ancestors and understand that Crna Gora will in the future return to her position as the beacon of Serbdom.NWO can force us Serbs apart but only we can once again unite and stay united.I have to stay an optomist in these times that try mens souls.Serbs are sharks in the water the last month should tell the world that.3 GOLD Bravo!
You're right, I can't remember a single time when I have seen Albania achieve anything in sports.
What is it with them? They can't use the isolation argument, because North Korea and Cuba have had great sportsman, they can't use poverty, there are many African states who consistently achieve.
KosovoUSA "Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???" that's easy - Serbia. It can transport it's goods overland whereas Kosovo has no exports and never will (apart from criminal enterprise).
We should take loans from russia, china, etc to buy as much as possible in montenegro and RS. in RS we're already doing it. loan's a loan and it's not a good thing but strategic buying is always worth it. bar port that's a good idea but i'd also invest heavily in say winter resorts in northern montenegro or energy there or just plain property.
'Very simple the Croatians taught you to well'
Troll away lenard :) but you mean in yugoslavia right? ok so lets put in perspective what yugoslavia really was.
We serbs had our first kindgdom in 11th century and empire 200ish years later. in 1918 we took a bunch of european kurds such as croats, slovenes and bosnian muslims who never in history had any kind of state and gave them equal status in our kingdom! and over decades we serbs slowly taught them what statehood is, they looked at us and learned, and now they're nations! Well kudos to us serbs. But lenard dont forget to say thank you sometime.
Maybe Russia and Serbia can buy it together and finance a new freeway and railline from Belgrade to Bar. I am sure the average common Montenegrins will be happy with the extra trade and activities (plus employment) that it may bring. However, I am afraid that the EU and the US will pay certain politicians to block any deal or sale.
Montenegro is selling the port.
Serbia wants to buy it.
Many people on the forum are - laughing,saying serbs are not water people, kosovo is so much better because we have a port, saying 'don't trust the serbs', it was never montenegro's to begin with etc.
Montengro is selling the port so it is open to any purchaser. So it goes...
So Serbs are not water people? How come Serbia is World Champions at Waterpolo. Very simple the Croatians taught you to well. Croatians are and have been many times European also the champions of the world. Seriously how will Serbia afford it when it needs IMF loans just to stay afloat.
Serbia eyes Montenegro's largest port. Montenegro should be very wary selling it. When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins.
Why not a joint venture with Russia? Russians already own most of Monte negro so obtaining the port together with Serbia is logical in all aspects.
Im sure the western powers will do everything to prevent their local client in Podgorica even considering such a thing, but Russia has the money and thats all that counts...
Hahaha so they can invite their friends and tell them come to the "serbien beach" oh serbiens are not water people to handle the sea, it should stay that way.
Infrastructure Minister Milutin Mrkonjić on Tuesday said that Serbia is very interested in buying the port of Bar in Montenegro."
Probably means buying the concession right for xx years. Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and ...
I welcome any business co-operation between Balkan states. Only economic advancements will rid the region of ethnic hatred. Despite our differences we are closer than we'd like to think in our mentality, traditions and culture. I can have a conversation with a Serb any day, whereas with Americans I can't even though I've been living in NYC for 15 years now.
Can someone explain why they have Turkish construction companies in 1st place? You'd think they'd hire more local companies in Serbia and Montenegro to keep more jobs and profit in the countries. Very simple the Turks will hire the Albanians as workers at half the price so its a win win situation for everyone. But lets not forget the corruption that will be ramped on all sides lose lose. No simple answer.
Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???
Selling a port does not mean that Serbia has sovereignty over that piece of land.
Every country has the right to confiscate property on grounds of national security or "public good" so there's nothing Montenegro has to fear, should Serbia decide to "act up".
As a matter of fact, I would wish more cross-border exchanges like these happen all across the Balkans.
Peter and Lenard.
-----------------
With regard to under achievements in sports...
When I was growing up in Tirana, professions in sports and the military were considered to be inferior.
The main goal/pride of the parents was to send their kids to the university, preferably in prestigious fields such as engineering, science and economics. Only the truly gifted/stubborn kids or the truly mediocre students would go to the sports academy.
The military used to be treated very similarly too.
So needless to say, athletes weren't given much respect.
I don't think such attitudes have changed much even in the present day.
Most Albanians parents still see a sports career as a waste of time and potential.
switzerland is a landlocked country and won the americas cup sailing (the most expensive sports event in the world) off new zealand twice ! . we are talking about big business and infastructure here and some people are squabling about who is a swimmer or not ? what ? but just to clear it up ... any of you albanians out there who belive you are the superior macho strongmen , you are all welcome here in london for the 2012 olympics to show us what your made of .
It's not about sea access but how qualified the people are living in that country.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 14:21)
Correctly, and Albania was along Cyprus the only country in Europe which GDP was growing, and that despite of the crisis.
Btw. you shouldn't compare with a country like Switzerland which can rely on his financial resources accumulated in the whole 20th century with 3rd World countries like Somalia or Haiti (btw. both don't regard Kosovo's independence). A port is a very important step for the development of a country when it comes to international relations. Kosovo has one and now Serbia wants one, too. Very interesting when you consider that Montenegro does recognize Kosovo.
On that issue - you are absolutely right. Deep down inside alot of people still cling to nostalgia, everyone knows that there is more that binds than that divides...
i want to make a offer for the port of montenegro.i want the port for 5 euro? please b92 tell the montenegri governament to send me an email if that offer is good for them .thank you arta i really like you .keep it up
Poor Serbia, trying to be relevant--even as it seeks more IMF funds! From Stratfor: "
The reality today is that Belgrade does not command the same geopolitical relevance as it did as when it was the capital of Yugoslavia. With a population of roughly 8 million people, Serbia is not much larger than Switzerland, has no sea access and is confined to a north-south axis of territory on the Balkans that makes it crucial only as a link to Greece.
In 1989, Belgrade was the capital of a country of 23 million people, had a large Adriatic coastline, possessed the fourth largest military in Europe (and probably the third most effective after the Soviet Union and Turkey) and had an economy three times the size of Serbia’s present economy. Yugoslavia was not just politically important because it was a Communist country with good relations with the West, but because it possessed considerable geographic and demographic advantages"
P.S. A port with concession rights, is not a "real" port.
Sorry my Serbian brothers,but as we say here in Montenegro:
"If we are brothers,that doesn`t mean that our wallets are sisters!"
With the construction of the Bar-Belgrade highway(the construction of the Montenegrin section will start this autumn)Central and Eastern Europe will be open for this port for mass transit which will increase its value big time.
So in my opinion only a minor stake(perhaps 10-15%) should be sold to a realistic price,preferably to Serbia which will be a key user of this port.
The profits must stay here in Montenegro and nowhere else...
""The United States is committed to seeing Serbia become both a regional leader and an active, integrated member in Euro-Atlantic institutions."
[link]
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 20:19) "
I absolutely do not care about what the US are committed to - Serbia will rise again and nobody can prevent that.
as for premature dreams of being a regional leader, or like our dear k-albanian friends dream of being the biggest population in Macedonia, Serbia or the whole of southeastern europe...
keep dreaming, Serbia is better than that.
truth has no owner, and truth will always prevail, just like a few days ago when the officials admitted that Milorad Cavic was the first to touch the pad in the 100-meter-final in Beijing.
quite nice, for a guy from a "landlocked" country, isn´t it? =)
ps: always keep in mind that Montenegro is just another serbian state.
Infrastructure Minister Milutin Mrkonjić on Tuesday said that Serbia is very interested in buying the port of Bar in Montenegro."
Probably means buying the concession right for xx years. Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and ...
Hahaha so they can invite their friends and tell them come to the "serbien beach" oh serbiens are not water people to handle the sea, it should stay that way.
Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???
So Serbs are not water people? How come Serbia is World Champions at Waterpolo. Very simple the Croatians taught you to well. Croatians are and have been many times European also the champions of the world. Seriously how will Serbia afford it when it needs IMF loans just to stay afloat.
Serbia eyes Montenegro's largest port. Montenegro should be very wary selling it. When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins.
Poor Serbia, trying to be relevant--even as it seeks more IMF funds! From Stratfor: "
The reality today is that Belgrade does not command the same geopolitical relevance as it did as when it was the capital of Yugoslavia. With a population of roughly 8 million people, Serbia is not much larger than Switzerland, has no sea access and is confined to a north-south axis of territory on the Balkans that makes it crucial only as a link to Greece.
In 1989, Belgrade was the capital of a country of 23 million people, had a large Adriatic coastline, possessed the fourth largest military in Europe (and probably the third most effective after the Soviet Union and Turkey) and had an economy three times the size of Serbia’s present economy. Yugoslavia was not just politically important because it was a Communist country with good relations with the West, but because it possessed considerable geographic and demographic advantages"
P.S. A port with concession rights, is not a "real" port.
It's not about sea access but how qualified the people are living in that country.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 14:21)
Correctly, and Albania was along Cyprus the only country in Europe which GDP was growing, and that despite of the crisis.
Btw. you shouldn't compare with a country like Switzerland which can rely on his financial resources accumulated in the whole 20th century with 3rd World countries like Somalia or Haiti (btw. both don't regard Kosovo's independence). A port is a very important step for the development of a country when it comes to international relations. Kosovo has one and now Serbia wants one, too. Very interesting when you consider that Montenegro does recognize Kosovo.
i want to make a offer for the port of montenegro.i want the port for 5 euro? please b92 tell the montenegri governament to send me an email if that offer is good for them .thank you arta i really like you .keep it up
"Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and...
aRTA
Well dear aRTA in that case I guess you support giving back your masters continent of North America to the native Americans, after all, it wasn't theirs to begin with.
We should take loans from russia, china, etc to buy as much as possible in montenegro and RS. in RS we're already doing it. loan's a loan and it's not a good thing but strategic buying is always worth it. bar port that's a good idea but i'd also invest heavily in say winter resorts in northern montenegro or energy there or just plain property.
'Very simple the Croatians taught you to well'
Troll away lenard :) but you mean in yugoslavia right? ok so lets put in perspective what yugoslavia really was.
We serbs had our first kindgdom in 11th century and empire 200ish years later. in 1918 we took a bunch of european kurds such as croats, slovenes and bosnian muslims who never in history had any kind of state and gave them equal status in our kingdom! and over decades we serbs slowly taught them what statehood is, they looked at us and learned, and now they're nations! Well kudos to us serbs. But lenard dont forget to say thank you sometime.
Can someone explain why they have Turkish construction companies in 1st place? You'd think they'd hire more local companies in Serbia and Montenegro to keep more jobs and profit in the countries. Very simple the Turks will hire the Albanians as workers at half the price so its a win win situation for everyone. But lets not forget the corruption that will be ramped on all sides lose lose. No simple answer.
aRTA - "Not that Crna Gora would sell it, after all it wasn't their to begin with, just like Ulcinj and ..." Hahahahaa, you make me laugh. What else belongs to Albanians? Maybe an Albanian discovered the US or Australia. i'm waiting to see you lay your claim to all of Africa seeing as humans descended from Africa and migrated to the rest of the world - but of course Albanians were the FIRST humans around so naturally they own EVERYTHING.
Lenard - "When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins." You could say that about any economic asset a country holds but if you took that attitude where would the investment come from (i'm speaking in general terms here, not just about Serbia and the port)?
I guess the croats also taught us how to play soccer, tennis, volleyball, basketball, tabletennis, how to swim and all other sports Serbs are masters at?
You shouldn't worry your little head about us Serbs. We are more than capable of taking care of our selves. What you should be concerned about is how to make a future for your own people rather then pointing fingers at others.
Switzerland is landlocked and still one of the strongest economies in Europe. Hatiti is surrounded by sea and one of the poorest nations on the planet. Somalia and Albania have sea access but still it's poor and undeveloped. It's not about sea access but how qualified the people are living in that country.
Why not a joint venture with Russia? Russians already own most of Monte negro so obtaining the port together with Serbia is logical in all aspects.
Im sure the western powers will do everything to prevent their local client in Podgorica even considering such a thing, but Russia has the money and thats all that counts...
Serbs have won medals in swimming and water polo in world competitions. Plus there are 30% of Montenegrins who consider themselves ethnic Serbs and Serbs were living on the Dalmatian coast already in the 6th and 7th centuries and in that same period. Not to mention Serbs historically living around rivers as well.
"above all Turkish construction companies"
Can someone explain why they have Turkish construction companies in 1st place? You'd think they'd hire more local companies in Serbia and Montenegro to keep more jobs and profit in the countries.
How is it that an article that talks about Montenegro and the possibility of Serbia acquiring a port suddenly generate another flood of comments about how theoretically awesome Albanians are/aren't?
(Mike, 26 August 2009 17:58)
Good question. More interestingly, I wonder why Albanian nationalists (trolls) are always on here, posting a comment 24-7 regarding many things that have nothing to do with Kosovo.
Sorry my Serbian brothers,but as we say here in Montenegro:
"If we are brothers,that doesn`t mean that our wallets are sisters!"
With the construction of the Bar-Belgrade highway(the construction of the Montenegrin section will start this autumn)Central and Eastern Europe will be open for this port for mass transit which will increase its value big time.
So in my opinion only a minor stake(perhaps 10-15%) should be sold to a realistic price,preferably to Serbia which will be a key user of this port.
The profits must stay here in Montenegro and nowhere else...
Albania is surrounded by sea and can't even produce a good swimmer.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 11:12)
Ok they have mountains and have never produced a good skier.But in general albanians and sports are a far cry.(I know they will come up know with Tie Domi and their 10 men draw against portugal as well as victory against Greece 2-1 after EC in 2004 but these are little battles and you have to win the war)They have never won a single olympic medal,never taken part in any soccer WC or EC ,never had an NBA player or even a participant in Tennis Masters or Grand Slam event and so on.Compared to their population adequate climate and good natural conditions (mountains ,sea) they are the biggest underachivers in Europe.
Lenard,
Well the proud croat again.Best firefighting fleet and most educated water polo proffesors.It seems anyway that serbs proved to be excellent students and overtook their masters.So despite being not allowed to compete in team sports out of propaganda reasons(german preesure)at the beginning of 90s Serbs manged to win 3 EC titles(hungarians 2) since the break up of YU.Maybe next year in Zagreb you can finally win one.As to Wc titles during the same period:Hu 1 SRb 2 Cro 1.And finally olympic games :well that seems to be hungarian monopoly.Otherwise all my respect to both croatian and serb ballplayers.Your achievements are unique compared to your populations.Dinaric type is perfect both menttally and physically for these kind of sports as well as swimming.For years I wondered why serbs do not have excellent tennis players and swimmers.Well seems they have arrived.I believe that in one generation based on succes of Draganija and CAvic you both will have plenty of leading swimmers and in some years among top 10 atp players there will be at least 5-6 serbs and croats.It is really amazing to see how many extra talents at soccer you both can produce and the same goes for handball(rather croats)volleyball(rather serbs),and basketball and needless to say water polo.And although currenly you are not the best at ice hockey but both making great progress given that this is a game where slavs are good and you have the spirit,winning mentality and strength required for this game my prediction is that in some years you will be among the best here as well despite not having traditions.
You're right, I can't remember a single time when I have seen Albania achieve anything in sports.
What is it with them? They can't use the isolation argument, because North Korea and Cuba have had great sportsman, they can't use poverty, there are many African states who consistently achieve.
"Very interesting when you consider that Montenegro does recognize Kosovo."
John
Yes "John", Montenegro has recognized Kosovo but how come Podgorica don't want to open an embassy in Kosovo? They recognized under pressure, not because they really wanted to. Montenegro got better access to the EU by recognizing. It's not that Kosovo has anything to offer Montenegro.
"Montenegro should be very wary selling it. When Montenegro wants it back the Serbs will say we bought it bug off. It will be nothing but problems in the future for the Montenegrins."
Lenard
You mean just like Kosovo! Where albanians were let in by kind serbs and now albanians say it belongs to them. I see what you mean!
"So Serbs are not water people? How come Serbia is World Champions at Waterpolo? Albania is surrounded by sea and can't even produce a good swimmer.
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 11:12)"
True and Albania has never even won a single Olympic medal of any colour. The only Albanians to win medals have been for Yugoslavia. An example is Aziz Salihu.
KosovoUSA "Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???" that's easy - Serbia. It can transport it's goods overland whereas Kosovo has no exports and never will (apart from criminal enterprise).
Maybe Russia and Serbia can buy it together and finance a new freeway and railline from Belgrade to Bar. I am sure the average common Montenegrins will be happy with the extra trade and activities (plus employment) that it may bring. However, I am afraid that the EU and the US will pay certain politicians to block any deal or sale.
"Serbia has the potential to be a regional leader, because it is located on the crossroads of Europe and has good geographical ties with Corridor 10 and the Danube River."
http://f1.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2006&mm=10&dd=26&nav_id=37575
"The United States is committed to seeing Serbia become both a regional leader and an active, integrated member in Euro-Atlantic institutions."
http://www.voanews.com/uspolicy/2008-10-23-voa4.cfm
Montenegro is selling the port.
Serbia wants to buy it.
Many people on the forum are - laughing,saying serbs are not water people, kosovo is so much better because we have a port, saying 'don't trust the serbs', it was never montenegro's to begin with etc.
Montengro is selling the port so it is open to any purchaser. So it goes...
Access to the sea will bolster international trade and will enhance the economic outlook in many sectors, not only in Serbia but the entire region. Vital infrastructure in the form of a few lane highways connecting through the rough mountainous terrains or rail improvements will also be needed. Regardless should this pan out in Serbia's interest it'll be great for everyone.
Buying the Port is the proper focus .Serbia must now look forward with head held high and focus on economy and Kosovo as forieng policy.We were forced to the ground but are standing up slowly but surly.There are more Albanians on this site day by day spewing hate,the weak tend to hate the strong that is natural but we Serbs must not get involved in that hate because it will bring us down to their level and we all know where that is.
Stay positive,charming and liberty loving,remeber our ancestors and understand that Crna Gora will in the future return to her position as the beacon of Serbdom.NWO can force us Serbs apart but only we can once again unite and stay united.I have to stay an optomist in these times that try mens souls.Serbs are sharks in the water the last month should tell the world that.3 GOLD Bravo!
Selling a port does not mean that Serbia has sovereignty over that piece of land.
Every country has the right to confiscate property on grounds of national security or "public good" so there's nothing Montenegro has to fear, should Serbia decide to "act up".
As a matter of fact, I would wish more cross-border exchanges like these happen all across the Balkans.
Peter and Lenard.
-----------------
With regard to under achievements in sports...
When I was growing up in Tirana, professions in sports and the military were considered to be inferior.
The main goal/pride of the parents was to send their kids to the university, preferably in prestigious fields such as engineering, science and economics. Only the truly gifted/stubborn kids or the truly mediocre students would go to the sports academy.
The military used to be treated very similarly too.
So needless to say, athletes weren't given much respect.
I don't think such attitudes have changed much even in the present day.
Most Albanians parents still see a sports career as a waste of time and potential.
switzerland is a landlocked country and won the americas cup sailing (the most expensive sports event in the world) off new zealand twice ! . we are talking about big business and infastructure here and some people are squabling about who is a swimmer or not ? what ? but just to clear it up ... any of you albanians out there who belive you are the superior macho strongmen , you are all welcome here in london for the 2012 olympics to show us what your made of .
""The United States is committed to seeing Serbia become both a regional leader and an active, integrated member in Euro-Atlantic institutions."
[link]
(MikeC, 26 August 2009 20:19) "
I absolutely do not care about what the US are committed to - Serbia will rise again and nobody can prevent that.
as for premature dreams of being a regional leader, or like our dear k-albanian friends dream of being the biggest population in Macedonia, Serbia or the whole of southeastern europe...
keep dreaming, Serbia is better than that.
truth has no owner, and truth will always prevail, just like a few days ago when the officials admitted that Milorad Cavic was the first to touch the pad in the 100-meter-final in Beijing.
quite nice, for a guy from a "landlocked" country, isn´t it? =)
ps: always keep in mind that Montenegro is just another serbian state.
Serbia is landlocked and looking to by sea port. Kosova has free access to sea ports and access to adriatic sea unimpeded. who is in better position, now???
(Kosova-USA, 26 August 2009 13:48)
Serbia in UN is Kosovo No!!!
And what is kosovo gross and unemployment numbers like???
How is it that an article that talks about Montenegro and the possibility of Serbia acquiring a port suddenly generate another flood of comments about how theoretically awesome Albanians are/aren't?
I welcome any business co-operation between Balkan states. Only economic advancements will rid the region of ethnic hatred. Despite our differences we are closer than we'd like to think in our mentality, traditions and culture. I can have a conversation with a Serb any day, whereas with Americans I can't even though I've been living in NYC for 15 years now.
On that issue - you are absolutely right. Deep down inside alot of people still cling to nostalgia, everyone knows that there is more that binds than that divides...
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