Karadžić blames west for Yugoslav breakup

How can he be indicted for all those charges? What a joke! In Iraq there are over a million dead Iraqis and not one american official indicted for war crimes? Oh yeah I forgot america makes every country sign a paper that says americans are immune to justice! What a fair and just world we live in.

"I hope that through my trial, the people of Bosnia will see what was done to us by members of the international community, and how we were manipulated," said he.
--
Now let the trial begin. I'll be following this one closely. I wonder what they'll do once this NATO court closes next year?

Anyway, time to spill the beans.

"According to him, the breakup of Yugoslavia was not in the interest of the people of Yugoslavia"

The Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians disagree. Yugo became Serboslavia and no wanted that.

The Logic of B&H

If the former Yugoslavia was a "mini Soviet Union" which nevertheless is a completely innaccurate statement. Josip Broz Tito succeeded for so many years because Yugoslavia served as a custom broker for trade between the US and Western Europe to Russia.

Present day Bosnia is comprised of Serbs, Croats and so called "Bosniaks" whiich is essentially a US and European protectorate. If Yugoslavia was such a failure, why is the US and UK so intent in keeping Bosnia together? Where is the logic?

Muslims in B&H started the war by seperating under the pretext that Sloba would take away their rights or worse & yet Muslims in Raska never complained about Sloba, so these fears proved to be paranoid delusions for which B&H Muslims & Catholics initiated an illegal referendum, shot up a wedding.

Yes Lazar! The politicians in Coatia, Bosnia etc was trying to appease the yanks. But we know from history that appease does not work. I admire the Serbs for not trying to appease the west and instead going their own way, like in the Frank Sinatra song "I did it my way".

My deepest respect,

/Lars

Somehow I don't see Karadzic's wish being granted even if he's entitled to due process or a fair trial.

Many of you are seeing the end of the conflict and blaming America for the breakup. Germany played that role from the beginning. America stayed out for awhile. Germany consistently told Croatia what to do and taht they had full support and that they should nopt sign any peace agreements.

Actually ethnic Albanians (including Generals such as Ceku) were involved in Croatia's and Bosnia's war fighting with the separatists. Some of these also fought in Kosovo and Macedonia.

Foreign powers promoted the separatists to destroy Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was a competitor with Germany (and other countries) in the defense and construction industries in Africa, Middle East, etc.

And several western countries never liked the Catholic countries as a part of Yugoslavia, but had to wait until the Soviet Union receded and Germany reunited.

Eastern Germany's weapons were sent before and during the war to Croatia and England sent Slovenia millions of dollars of military communication equipment BEFORE the wars first broke out.

The west did want to destroy it and they used old fault lines.

You have the same peoples who were big Nazi supporter of WWII (the Croats, Slovenes and the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians) being used once again to kill Serbs.

Basically these same groups killed Serbs in WWI.

Yugoslavia WAS a mistake. Both times.

You know, as much as I do believe that the West was responsible for Yugoslavia's divide and conquor, there's only so far one can so with that supposition. Even if the West provided the ammunition, Yugoslavia's people were the ones who pulled the trigger. Obviously once all sides regard their part in the war as only for defensive purposes, either the entire event was a grotesque coincidence, or someone's really stretching the limits of the truth.

Right-wing Serbian logic:

-In the Croatian war, it was the Croatian's fault
-In the Bosnian war, it was the Bosniak's and Croatian's fault
-In the Kosovo war, it was the Albanian's fault
-In whole Yugoslavia, it was the fault of the 3 above mentioned peoples including the West

But, the ONLY people, the Serbs, who was involved in ALL wars (occasionally of course) is innocent.

Mike, certain politicians sign a certain tune. In Yugoslavia certain politicians sung their tunes because of what the West was doing. Simply put, had the west been different, we would not have seen some of the douchbags either A) come to power, and B) if they came to power they may not have pursued their destructive actions.

"How can he be indicted for all those charges? What a joke! In Iraq there are over a million dead Iraqis and not one american official indicted for war crimes? Oh yeah I forgot america makes every country sign a paper that says americans are immune to justice! What a fair and just world we live in.
(Ratko, 21 August 2009 16:30) "

Totally agree with you Ratko. There should be no immunity for Americans. I guess for now we have to try to find comfort in the fact that at least some war criminals get to face justice. Like Radovan Karadzic.

aRTA,

Yougoslavia was like a mini Sovietunion. In one the Serbs in the other one the Russians were the masters. All other people - felt oppressed and exploited - wanted to get out. It was something natural that had to occur.

Totally agree with you Ratko. There should be no immunity for Americans. I guess for now we have to try to find comfort in the fact that at least some war criminals get to face justice. Like Radovan Karadzic.
(Carl, Sweden, 21 August 2009 19:38)

Really? No immunity for Americans? Do you like the peace and the prosperity you live in? I bet you do, thank Americans for that, cause if not for them, you will be speaking German for a while, and then Russian and so on....

You should not bite the hand that feeds and protects you. Europeans have become so naive and foolish, and as always they will not learn the lesson until they get burned. And it's always the small wealthy countries that jump like rabbits, and complain about the American justice. I don't see Germany, England or Italy complaining about the US.

Maybe you will love a new world order dominated by Russia, or China, or a combiantion of these fine traditional democracies.

There might be a an element of truth there. Kardzic is not being tried for YU's break up, but for crimes he committed during the break up. Therefore his claims are irrelevant.
The break up was inevitable and if it wasn’t for the likes of Karadzic it would have happened without the need for slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians.

aRTA, are you saying that Yugoslavia became "Serboslavia" because the other Republics seceded or that they seceded because Yugoslavia became "Serboslavia"?

Ratko,

I think that 1 million is pretty inflated. Anyway if you could see it objectively you would have to admit that at least 90% of the number resulted in the Iraqis killing each other. Now that the Iraqi government is responsible for security there is more killing than before, Iraqis killing Iraqis.
Maybe that country s/b broken up in 3 pieces. The fault of the US was simply to try to bring democracy to a country that was not ready for it and will not be ready for the next 30-50 years.

Haha I love this guy, he is well funny! At the end of the day he is a nationalist and he is by no means a patriot!

Bosnia has existed as a nation for a thousand years that's why Bosnia can function just fine with all its beautiful diversity.

Yes, Mike but who pulled the trigger first?

I disagree, Yugoslavia is something that should not have been formed and that would have broken up anyway, with or without the West.

It is not even a question of whether or not there was a dominant group, it's just a case of union states/empires falling apart over time.

What better examples than the following to look to:

1) Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (today, what's left is Poland, Lithuania, most of Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia and parts of today's Russia).

2) Hungarian Empire (today, what's left is Hungary, Slovakia, most of Romania and most of Croatia).

3) Byzantine Empire (today, what's left is Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Macedodina, parts of Armenia, parts of Georgia and parts of Turkey).

4) Holy Roman Empire (today, what's left is Germany, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Luxembourg, parts of Poland, parts of Italy and parts of France).

5) Kalmar Union (today, what's left is Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Estonia, Iceland and most of Finland).

I could go on and on, but like other fellow Slavic superstates (the USSR and Czechoslovakia), all good things would come to an end.

I think it's just natural that people want to be the masters of their own destiny, not part of someone else's.

Karadzic seems to be very sore for the break-up and appears to be looking for a scapegoat for its demise.

Joe, Serbs dominated Yugoslavia? Like Croats dominated kingdom of Yugoslavia! Dictator of communist YU was croat by the name TITO! His ministers were Croats and Slovenes and just small number of Serbs! War in YU started because west supported nationalistic and separatistic regimes in Croatia, Bosnia. When Serbs asked for their independence from in croatia, Bosnia they were ethnicly cleansed!

responsible for the break up of Yugoslavia is only Serbia.They wanted to creat a great serbia and the only reason to protect the identity of the republics was to declare their independent.

Denis – no one doubts for one moment the contribution the US made during neither WWII nor the effect of the Marshall Plan to re-build Europe. However please do not over egg the pudding. Your country did not manage this feat alone the Brits and the Commonwealth were there too. Indeed other peoples including the Serbs all over the Balkans fought a wonderful partisan war. The lend lease of military equipment to the UK cost us dear and many, many of your business and industrialists acted like vultures picking over the corpse of British commerce and industry. It took many years for us to re-pay the debt. The US never does anything unless there are something in it for them – you may believe your own propaganda but don’t try and sell it to the rest of us – least of all the vast majority of decent people living in the Balkans. As for the topic – The Hague no matter how just the cause is none the less the justice of the victors – and that has always been the case. And please remember not everyone in the world loves Americans or MacDonald’s particularly when presented with arrogant posts such as yours.

You have the same peoples who were big Nazi supporter of WWII (the Croats, Slovenes and the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians) being used once again to kill Serbs.

Basically these same groups killed Serbs in WWI.

Yugoslavia WAS a mistake. Both times.
(ida, 22 August 2009 15:12)


Ida, what you don't say, but you know it's true, is the fact that all these people sided with Nazis against the Serbs, because they perceived Serbia to be the biggiest threat to them. Germans never did anything to Albanians, Croats or Bosnians, Serbs through their chauvinistic policies did, or at least they believe so.

The strugle against Serbia has always been a national priority for many nationalists and patriots in each of these nations. So maybe you should first find some reasons why do they all feel so threatened by Serbia. You can't tell me Serbs have done nothing wrong.

More Serbs are accused for war crimes than any other nationalitie, yet you continue to be in self denial by blaming the others. Try to find some responsibilty in yourselves for once.

You didn't need the West to break up Yugoslavia, take a look at the history to understand that Yugoslavia was an artificial union of people that historically hated each other, and it was held together by an artificial and inorganic political system which lasted only for so long.

K-Alb are ready to take upon them any sacrifice just to get out of Serb control, cause they know that if they don't the doom day might come any day upon them.

Radovan Karadzic and Milorad Dodik are in full opinion synchronization. The difference is that the first is on trial, the second is running half of Bosnia.

The mastermind behind the Yugoslav Wars was Slobodan Milosevic and his idea to make a “Greater Serbia” out of Yugoslavia, killing and expelling thousands of non-compliant people in the process.

"How can he be indicted for all those charges? What a joke! In Iraq there are over a million dead Iraqis and not one american official indicted for war crimes? Oh yeah I forgot america makes every country sign a paper that says americans are immune to justice! What a fair and just world we live in.
(Ratko, 21 August 2009 16:30) "

Totally agree with you Ratko. There should be no immunity for Americans. I guess for now we have to try to find comfort in the fact that at least some war criminals get to face justice. Like Radovan Karadzic.

"According to him, the breakup of Yugoslavia was not in the interest of the people of Yugoslavia"

The Slovenes, Croats, Bosniaks and Albanians disagree. Yugo became Serboslavia and no wanted that.

Totally agree with you Ratko. There should be no immunity for Americans. I guess for now we have to try to find comfort in the fact that at least some war criminals get to face justice. Like Radovan Karadzic.
(Carl, Sweden, 21 August 2009 19:38)

Really? No immunity for Americans? Do you like the peace and the prosperity you live in? I bet you do, thank Americans for that, cause if not for them, you will be speaking German for a while, and then Russian and so on....

You should not bite the hand that feeds and protects you. Europeans have become so naive and foolish, and as always they will not learn the lesson until they get burned. And it's always the small wealthy countries that jump like rabbits, and complain about the American justice. I don't see Germany, England or Italy complaining about the US.

Maybe you will love a new world order dominated by Russia, or China, or a combiantion of these fine traditional democracies.

You know, as much as I do believe that the West was responsible for Yugoslavia's divide and conquor, there's only so far one can so with that supposition. Even if the West provided the ammunition, Yugoslavia's people were the ones who pulled the trigger. Obviously once all sides regard their part in the war as only for defensive purposes, either the entire event was a grotesque coincidence, or someone's really stretching the limits of the truth.

aRTA,

Yougoslavia was like a mini Sovietunion. In one the Serbs in the other one the Russians were the masters. All other people - felt oppressed and exploited - wanted to get out. It was something natural that had to occur.

Haha I love this guy, he is well funny! At the end of the day he is a nationalist and he is by no means a patriot!

Ratko,

I think that 1 million is pretty inflated. Anyway if you could see it objectively you would have to admit that at least 90% of the number resulted in the Iraqis killing each other. Now that the Iraqi government is responsible for security there is more killing than before, Iraqis killing Iraqis.
Maybe that country s/b broken up in 3 pieces. The fault of the US was simply to try to bring democracy to a country that was not ready for it and will not be ready for the next 30-50 years.

Bosnia has existed as a nation for a thousand years that's why Bosnia can function just fine with all its beautiful diversity.

Right-wing Serbian logic:

-In the Croatian war, it was the Croatian's fault
-In the Bosnian war, it was the Bosniak's and Croatian's fault
-In the Kosovo war, it was the Albanian's fault
-In whole Yugoslavia, it was the fault of the 3 above mentioned peoples including the West

But, the ONLY people, the Serbs, who was involved in ALL wars (occasionally of course) is innocent.

How can he be indicted for all those charges? What a joke! In Iraq there are over a million dead Iraqis and not one american official indicted for war crimes? Oh yeah I forgot america makes every country sign a paper that says americans are immune to justice! What a fair and just world we live in.

There might be a an element of truth there. Kardzic is not being tried for YU's break up, but for crimes he committed during the break up. Therefore his claims are irrelevant.
The break up was inevitable and if it wasn’t for the likes of Karadzic it would have happened without the need for slaughtering hundreds of thousands of civilians.

Somehow I don't see Karadzic's wish being granted even if he's entitled to due process or a fair trial.

Muslims in B&H started the war by seperating under the pretext that Sloba would take away their rights or worse & yet Muslims in Raska never complained about Sloba, so these fears proved to be paranoid delusions for which B&H Muslims & Catholics initiated an illegal referendum, shot up a wedding.

aRTA, are you saying that Yugoslavia became "Serboslavia" because the other Republics seceded or that they seceded because Yugoslavia became "Serboslavia"?

Mike, certain politicians sign a certain tune. In Yugoslavia certain politicians sung their tunes because of what the West was doing. Simply put, had the west been different, we would not have seen some of the douchbags either A) come to power, and B) if they came to power they may not have pursued their destructive actions.

The Logic of B&H

If the former Yugoslavia was a "mini Soviet Union" which nevertheless is a completely innaccurate statement. Josip Broz Tito succeeded for so many years because Yugoslavia served as a custom broker for trade between the US and Western Europe to Russia.

Present day Bosnia is comprised of Serbs, Croats and so called "Bosniaks" whiich is essentially a US and European protectorate. If Yugoslavia was such a failure, why is the US and UK so intent in keeping Bosnia together? Where is the logic?

"I hope that through my trial, the people of Bosnia will see what was done to us by members of the international community, and how we were manipulated," said he.
--
Now let the trial begin. I'll be following this one closely. I wonder what they'll do once this NATO court closes next year?

Anyway, time to spill the beans.

Yes Lazar! The politicians in Coatia, Bosnia etc was trying to appease the yanks. But we know from history that appease does not work. I admire the Serbs for not trying to appease the west and instead going their own way, like in the Frank Sinatra song "I did it my way".

My deepest respect,

/Lars

Many of you are seeing the end of the conflict and blaming America for the breakup. Germany played that role from the beginning. America stayed out for awhile. Germany consistently told Croatia what to do and taht they had full support and that they should nopt sign any peace agreements.

Actually ethnic Albanians (including Generals such as Ceku) were involved in Croatia's and Bosnia's war fighting with the separatists. Some of these also fought in Kosovo and Macedonia.

Foreign powers promoted the separatists to destroy Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was a competitor with Germany (and other countries) in the defense and construction industries in Africa, Middle East, etc.

And several western countries never liked the Catholic countries as a part of Yugoslavia, but had to wait until the Soviet Union receded and Germany reunited.

Eastern Germany's weapons were sent before and during the war to Croatia and England sent Slovenia millions of dollars of military communication equipment BEFORE the wars first broke out.

The west did want to destroy it and they used old fault lines.

You have the same peoples who were big Nazi supporter of WWII (the Croats, Slovenes and the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians) being used once again to kill Serbs.

Basically these same groups killed Serbs in WWI.

Yugoslavia WAS a mistake. Both times.

Yes, Mike but who pulled the trigger first?

Radovan Karadzic and Milorad Dodik are in full opinion synchronization. The difference is that the first is on trial, the second is running half of Bosnia.

The mastermind behind the Yugoslav Wars was Slobodan Milosevic and his idea to make a “Greater Serbia” out of Yugoslavia, killing and expelling thousands of non-compliant people in the process.

I disagree, Yugoslavia is something that should not have been formed and that would have broken up anyway, with or without the West.

It is not even a question of whether or not there was a dominant group, it's just a case of union states/empires falling apart over time.

What better examples than the following to look to:

1) Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth (today, what's left is Poland, Lithuania, most of Ukraine, Belarus, Latvia and parts of today's Russia).

2) Hungarian Empire (today, what's left is Hungary, Slovakia, most of Romania and most of Croatia).

3) Byzantine Empire (today, what's left is Greece, Serbia, Bulgaria, Albania, Montenegro, Bosnia & Herzegovina, Macedodina, parts of Armenia, parts of Georgia and parts of Turkey).

4) Holy Roman Empire (today, what's left is Germany, the Netherlands, Czech Republic, Belgium, Austria, Switzerland, Slovenia, Luxembourg, parts of Poland, parts of Italy and parts of France).

5) Kalmar Union (today, what's left is Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Estonia, Iceland and most of Finland).

I could go on and on, but like other fellow Slavic superstates (the USSR and Czechoslovakia), all good things would come to an end.

I think it's just natural that people want to be the masters of their own destiny, not part of someone else's.

Karadzic seems to be very sore for the break-up and appears to be looking for a scapegoat for its demise.

Joe, Serbs dominated Yugoslavia? Like Croats dominated kingdom of Yugoslavia! Dictator of communist YU was croat by the name TITO! His ministers were Croats and Slovenes and just small number of Serbs! War in YU started because west supported nationalistic and separatistic regimes in Croatia, Bosnia. When Serbs asked for their independence from in croatia, Bosnia they were ethnicly cleansed!

responsible for the break up of Yugoslavia is only Serbia.They wanted to creat a great serbia and the only reason to protect the identity of the republics was to declare their independent.

Denis – no one doubts for one moment the contribution the US made during neither WWII nor the effect of the Marshall Plan to re-build Europe. However please do not over egg the pudding. Your country did not manage this feat alone the Brits and the Commonwealth were there too. Indeed other peoples including the Serbs all over the Balkans fought a wonderful partisan war. The lend lease of military equipment to the UK cost us dear and many, many of your business and industrialists acted like vultures picking over the corpse of British commerce and industry. It took many years for us to re-pay the debt. The US never does anything unless there are something in it for them – you may believe your own propaganda but don’t try and sell it to the rest of us – least of all the vast majority of decent people living in the Balkans. As for the topic – The Hague no matter how just the cause is none the less the justice of the victors – and that has always been the case. And please remember not everyone in the world loves Americans or MacDonald’s particularly when presented with arrogant posts such as yours.

You have the same peoples who were big Nazi supporter of WWII (the Croats, Slovenes and the Bosnian Muslims and Albanians) being used once again to kill Serbs.

Basically these same groups killed Serbs in WWI.

Yugoslavia WAS a mistake. Both times.
(ida, 22 August 2009 15:12)


Ida, what you don't say, but you know it's true, is the fact that all these people sided with Nazis against the Serbs, because they perceived Serbia to be the biggiest threat to them. Germans never did anything to Albanians, Croats or Bosnians, Serbs through their chauvinistic policies did, or at least they believe so.

The strugle against Serbia has always been a national priority for many nationalists and patriots in each of these nations. So maybe you should first find some reasons why do they all feel so threatened by Serbia. You can't tell me Serbs have done nothing wrong.

More Serbs are accused for war crimes than any other nationalitie, yet you continue to be in self denial by blaming the others. Try to find some responsibilty in yourselves for once.

You didn't need the West to break up Yugoslavia, take a look at the history to understand that Yugoslavia was an artificial union of people that historically hated each other, and it was held together by an artificial and inorganic political system which lasted only for so long.

K-Alb are ready to take upon them any sacrifice just to get out of Serb control, cause they know that if they don't the doom day might come any day upon them.