Presidency "won't discuss Kosovo"

The Forum of Bosniaks of Kosovo asked Bosnia to "recognize the independence of Kosovo, and consequently, as soon as possible to recognize the travel documents of Kosovo citizens so that Bosniaks and other citizens of Kosovo can travel freely to the Bosnia".

Do that and Banja Luka will be waving a big sayonara in return.

What's good for the Kosovo goose is good for the Bosnian gander.

Ian,

You ever heard of Dayton?

Ian,
What do you truly know about BiH? What do you know about the Dayton 49-51 split? What do you know about the ethnic makeup of BiH? What do you know about the complexities and political realities on the ground in BiH? What do you know about the consequences of a foolish move like that and the invevitable disintigreation of BiH, that would happen immediately as a result? Do a little bit of homework or travel to BiH on a fact finding mission, before flapping your gums about issues you have no idea about.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.
(Kosova-USA, 13 August 2009 13:19)

Ooh-hoo-hoo! That will show them! What a paradise they are missing out on by not being allowed to enter the south of Kosovo! :)

well then republika srpska should separate after that, and then in the krajina region of croatia should have all returnees back and then full autonomy there .

"The Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats would have no problem recognising Kosovo its the Bosnian Serbs who object."

The Croats and the Muslims (they do not have exclusive claim to being Bosnian)have been cooperating for a long time. They set up concentration camps and killed Serbs, Jews etc in World War - even the German Nazis were shocked at the Croat/Muslim atrocities - and the Croat/Muslim Nazi SS divisions were the inspiration for the separatist forces during the Yugoslav wars. They also fought against the Serbs in the 1990s and made an agreement to carve up RS. Of course they want another Islamofascist state in the Balkans but they have no say and they have no moral or other legitimacy.

After the visit of the Russian President in October the Balkans will never the same again.......

I find some of these comments funny.

Well I guess if one's trying to talk oh your neighbours recognized. Well I simply say so what. 70 years ago they were all fascists with designs on making Serbia week, history doesn't seem to change.

Anyways. Montenegrin and FYROM officials have officially acknowledged they were pressured into recognition. Croatian officials have acnowledged that the speed of recognition is the direct result of them wanting to show of too their future American overlords right before the NATO summit.

Now for the claims regarding the Bosniaks in Kosovo. Of course they;re going to say this, the Albanians in "multi-ethnic" Kosovo expelled 70% of them after 1999.

The talk of unidying Bosnia is ridicolous. Croats have nothing bu their own dear leader Tudjman who sold them out for a massive IMF loan before Dayton.

The notion that centralization Bosnia is absurd. It will lead to the same situation as in 1991 and will not be an improvement on the current stat eof their parliament and politics.

Plus. Given that RS has in just a few years of Dodik developed a better economy then the Federation, has less debt isn't prone to bankruptcy and wages are higher it's clear that integrating RS into the rest of Bosnia punishes succesful govenrment.

"I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat."
Kosova-USA

Who wants to go to Kosovo and why?

"But the reality is that only Serbia is against"
ben

Serbia is against and another 140 countries. The reason others don't mind an independent Kosovo is that it is not their land to give away. Kosovo is Serbia so of course Serbs are hangin on to their own territory. Why doesn't Croatia give in to the territorial demands of Slovenia? When it's about your own territory it's a different story no isn't it?

The Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats would have no problem recognising Kosovo its the Bosnian Serbs who object. I think it is time to dissolve Republika Srpska and fully integrate it into the rest of the country. It is a bit unfair that the Serbs get there own entity, but the Croats don't. Integration of the Serb entity is what the country needs.

I find this comment by these comments by this Reality Check character foolish.

To the same degree Dayton blocks RS independence, UNSC 1244 blocks Kosovo independence.

And if they think Bosnia is stable by going against the wishes of some 40% of it's citizen ( close to 50% if one takes into the fact that Croats favour a weak Bosnia, hence their demands for a third entity ) and by expelling them. Then you are delusional.

Bosnia is just such a mess no matter what they do they cause instability. And if they think what the hypocritical west did in Kosovo makes it more stable then the west should just quit in their idiotic attempts at nation building (how much of a failure Bosnia and Kosovo are compared to states receiving miniscule amounts of foreign aid, Serbia and FYROM is a clear indication of this).


West can abolish RS all they want. Expect Serbs to obstruct the Bosnian parliament even more.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.
(Kosova-USA, 13 August 2009 13:19)


Your making me laugh, I’m sure people from Bosnia will lose lots of sleep because they can’t travel to such a tourist Mecca like Kosovo.

To "RealityCheck",

If the international community and the Bosnian federation would try to abolish Republika Srpska then they are also breaking the Dayton peace agreement and at that point of time there is no reason for RS to take its responsibility. Considering the fact that some countries in the international community have very flexible ideas about agreements (UNSC 1244 for instance) I would recommend RS to be prepared for the worst. Any aggression against RS should result in Serbia assisting their brothers and sisters in RS by all means. Of course I am aware that some countries in the international community have already planned another ethnic cleansing of Serbs (from Bosnia to Serbia), but it is not going to happen.

It must be a lie this one.

Kosova's independence is supported only by Albanians- this is what Serbia is saying all the time.

But the reality is that only Serbia is against.

Today Bosniaks expressed their support, yesterday it was Turks and Montenegrins. Croatian community has always been pro etc...

You can give the notices in sequence but one day you will learn to make a mosaic.

However, by heart we know that you have recognized Kosova the very moment of the declaration.

RealityCheck,

Let us not be naive .Higher stability in the long run can be achived only if there are no islamoimerialists in the balkans.Fortunately people all over europe are more and more fed up with pseudoliberal ideas and forced islamization of europe.People will elect in more and more places goverments that oppose this procedures.

Reality Check,

So what if he privatized them. They were extremely inefficient, derelict and decrepit. The money coming in from foreign investors will mkae them competitive, efficient and employ more people and bring more economic benefit.

Plus, so what if he sold them to Serbs, Russians or whoever. They offered the best price it was sold to them. If Bosnians wanted to buy them they sophuld have bid more then Serbs or Russians.

In reality. Government revenues increased because the companies he sold were mostly not making profit, having huge losses and thus earning no income and paying no tax. They have since then become profitable or in the case of the Telekom more profitable, and state debts tied to these government companies are not in the hands of the state but in private foreign owners.

Republika Srpska still has alot of the money from the privatization in reserve.

Also. Dodik sold at the height of inflated prices and even conservative economists estimate that the delay in privatization in the Federation has caused the vlaue to go down (as much as $500 million for the telekom) and at that it's arece3ssion so the value has deflated substantially.

Furthermore. They will enver be the "best performer" even if they privatize. Their spending is alot more then RS, they continue increasing spending, they've gone bankrupt and unlike the centralized RS in the Federation half the money will go to to the cantons which will further waste the money.

They cvan oprivatize all they want. The sale price will be signifcanyl bwelow what it would have been last year and the federation will have a regressibve tax system.

What coutns is that the federation has clearly indicated that the other half of Bosnia will suffer economically if the state is centralized.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.

Niall, do not think that Kosovo and the "RS" entity in Bosnia are linked in any way. Only in the minds of Tadic and Dodik are they linked, in reality they are two completely separate issues with separate solutions. For starters any declaration of "independence" by the "RS" would be followed by the political destruction of the "RS" entity since the Dayton Peace Accords clearly forbid any entity from proclaiming independence, and that is regardless of what happens in Kosovo. If the peace accord is broken by any side in a conflict then the war is bound to resume and any kind of conflict in Bosnia today started by the Bosnian Serbs will clearly result in the Bosnian Serbs losing their entity and becoming part of a unified Bosnian State or them fleeing to Serbia as refugees. So even if Bosnia recognized Kosovo today it would not change anything in Bosnia. Kosovo had a long internationally sponsored program of obtaining independence the "RS" does not and in fact most international and local key players would welcome its destruction so that are normal and functional Bosnian state which would increase stability in the Balkans could emerge.

reality check,

most eu member states (especially in the west) have private corporations. That is how capitalism works.

Yaroslav,

Dodik only made money by privatizing former government-owned companies and selling them to the Russians, Serbians, and some other foreign companies. Now that he has sold off most of the former government-owned companies the amount of revenue coming in will decrease substantially. The Federation still has several big companies that it will privatize making billions of euros in the process and then it will seem as if they are the "best performers". It is simply silly to compare the economies of administrative entities. What counts is the national economy of Bosnia and how it is affecting all of its citizens.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.
(Kosova-USA, 13 August 2009 13:19)

Can you pls propose them to do the same for swiss passport holders so that I will not succumb to the temptation to travel there...

As to the article, am just woundering at the end how many countries freely decided about this illegal UDI, a handfull at most, all the rest were subject to black mail, pressure, carrots, bribes, the list is too long...

Yaroslav,

I agree with you that Dodik sold the former state-owned companies at the right time and made a large profit off of it, however the way in which he spend some of that money is under investigation for corruption. Also selling off state-owned companies is not a long-term formula for success since there is only a limited number of companies that can be sold at a profit. The Federation still has many companies that it will privatize in the upcoming years and billions of euros will be made in the process and hopefully they will not go into the pockets of shady politicians and businessmen. I think that most state-owned companies in Bosnia and Herzegovina should be privatized to improve their efficiency and competitiveness thereby increasing their profit margins. The same is true for all other Balkan countries. However, as the investigation of Dodik shows we need to be careful about how these privatization deals are made and how the profits are assigned to prevent corruption from depriving the citizens of the money they should be getting.

Ian Uk@2, you do write a lot of nonsense.

Croats in Bosnia don't want to be in federation any more than the Serbs. The difference between the Croats and Serbs is that Serbs fought for what they have and never sold out to US while the Croats agreed to be part of the federation in order to get support from the west and look like the good guys.

How many Muslims did the Croats kill? Many, many of them but since they agreed to be part of the federation it's all swept under the carpet. Muslims killed a lot of Croats too, so there is no way they want to be together. Unfortunately for them they signed something they shouldnt've and now they are stuck with it while resenting the fact that Serbs stuck to their guns and now have their own land.

Now that's reality my good man. Like it or not.

I have actually met a Croatian from Herzegovina who came here to Australia to visit her sister. She hates being in the federation because of the blood shed and she represents many Croatian voices there.

Bosnia is doomed because two of their people don't want it to exist. The want to join their brothers in Serbia and Croatia. Ian if you truly belive in self rule like you do for Albanians in Kosovo then you must allow these people the same.

Maybe...

Serbs in Bosnia wouldn't mind recognizing Kosovo and the Bosniaks don't want to recognize. Kind of "funny" if you really think about it.

Realitycheck,

Are you sure that a majority of the citizens of BiH want that? How sure are you? Have you ever been to RS or the Federation, or do you skim through news articles on the net? First off, Dodik has done an amazing job to the economy of RS, creating sound fiscal policy and reducing unemployment, while the Federation is in deficit, high unemployment, corruption and total unhappiness.
As for reworking the constitution, don't all three constituent peoples first have to agree to it? Its not gonna happen and neither is the failed police reform (it failed...). If anything, within 20 + years BiH will be no more. Do yourself a favour and visit BiH then post your fables.

There are many people on this site, and in serbia and RS, who wish to finish the destruction of bosnia. and yes, some extreme croats as well. and, in my opinion, some extremist Muslims as well, who are all about religion which comes frightfully close to theocracy. if it were up to these people, our bosnia would have been destroyed long ago, who cares about the genocide, hundred thousand plus dead, etc etc.

now, i do not believe that bosnia (politically) will be destroyed, though it is in a perilous state right now, no question. it does not operate as a country -- it operates as competing ethnic groups, (generally) led by very corrupt politicians, dodik at the forefront.

those of us who understand the situation and are familiar with the actors need to find ways to support that country, one way or another. visit the country, if you can, and let yr govt representatives know that your govt needs to be supporting bosnia, rather than the reverse. that it needs to support a robust OHR, with teeth, thank you very much.

most people in bosnia are really amazing, really beautiful, inside and out. when i meet any particular stranger there, i try so hard NOT to discover what ethnicity they are. you seldom can tell upon first glance, or even from a quick conversation -- sometimes from the name, often not. even in sarajevo you have no idea, all comments here to the contrary.

and at one time nearly 1/3 of all marriages were inter-ethnic! can you imagine, those monsters (karadzic and co.) for whatever their sordid reasons, tried to separate it all out. guess what? it is an impossibility, moreso in bosnia than anywhere i've been. and when they attempted to do it, bosnia became hell on earth, and believe me, that is no hyperbole. as it would again.

i have said before -- if any bosnian wishes to move to croatia or serbia (or anywhere else) they certainly should have that right. but bosnia is not up for grabs, not by serbia, not by croatia, not by saudi arabia, not by nobody.

the attempts by the s- nationalists to exploit the situation and equate a free Kosovoa with a castrated bosnia is a cynical and ugly attempt to retell history, and it won't fly.

unfortunately, bosnia's recognition of kosovo/a is being held hostage to all of this. but if serbia, not to mention bosnia, ever wishes to get into the eu and be taken seriously on the intl stage, things must change.

roberto
frisco

Bosnia is doomed because two of their people don't want it to exist. The want to join their brothers in Serbia and Croatia. Ian if you truly belive in self rule like you do for Albanians in Kosovo then you must allow these people the same.
(Peggy, 14 August 2009 01:44)

Are you going to allow the same for Albanians, Peggy? Just wondering!

Peggy,

The majority of Bosnian citizens support having a fully democratic and multi-ethinc Bosnian state. The question is not wether Bosnian people want to have a Bosnian state or not, it is what kind of state they want to have. They should decide for themselves what kind of state they want, but the current model is simply unsustainable because the country can not move forward and it is sinking in corruption and dysfuntion. The EU and US need to help Bosnian politicians reach a new constituional framework that will pelase the majority of people from all ethnic groups and that will make the country sustainable, stable, and prosperous for the benefit of all its citizens.

Are you going to allow the same for Albanians, Peggy? Just wondering!
(Kosova-USA, 14 August 2009 14:41)

NO. Simple. Kosovo was always Serbian and so was Bosnia. Before the great conversion to Islam who was actually on the ground there. Who was converted? Serbs were converted to Islam so as you see it was theirs.

Ian believes that just because the Albanians overpopulated Kosovo by migration from Albania and an extremely high birth rate they should have it. Now if he believes that, then he should have no problem allowing the Serbs and Croats to take their chunk of Bosnia and run with it. I never said that it was OK. Ian did, but it's definately OK for the Serbs to have their land they had for a very, very long time.

Is this answer adequate for you?

Reality Check,

Republika Srpska is a reality on the ground and ironed out by the will of a constituent people in BiH. They fought for it, shed blood for it and believe in it. Serbs have not just been in BiH for over a thousand years, they are indigenous to the land as well. RS is far better off than the Federation in all areas. As for claims about corruption in the RS, I'm sure there is, like anywhere else...but the federation is far more complicit in that respect. But attempting to smear Dodik, the Federation is failing, as he is a hardworking man of character and integrity...can't see many politicians or so-called leaders in the Federation like that. Regarding corruption, look at the US...what is lobbying? Buying off of politicians for...? Go visit BiH...go spend some time in Banja Luka, Sarajevo, Mostar and speak with peoples on that ground before giving solutions based on internet articles. As for Serbia, Belgrade is the economic heart and most of the jobs are there and in the surrounding areas...but hey...Subotica, Gornji Milanovac, Jagodina and Vrsac are versatile in their economies and have opportunites in vast sectors.

Hey Realitycheck,

I am part Bosnian Serb. Part Vojvodina Slovak and elements of Hungarian. I was born in Pancevo. Guess what I consider myself? I have family in BiH, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro. Guess what I consider myself? I have facts that speak louder than researched articles off the net like you do. I'm over there yearly, sometimes twice a year. Go visit those areas and then speak.

If people want to live in RS, they can move there. It is not a truly homogenous state. There are pockers in which those with the desire can work to achieve demographic change. 3 generations commiting themselves to dominating the RS. That is all it will take. It has worked before and will again.

Dragan,

As I've said before Dodik got the smaller BiH entity money by selling government owned companies to Russian and Serbian investors and now he's spending it on some good projects and on some questionable projects (Corruption Investigation). The industrial output of the smaller BiH entity has not improved much and in fact many people have lost their jobs, I know because I'm in touch with people in Banja Luka and believe me the picture is not as rosy as you'd think. And if people living in Banja Luka (the town in which almost all of the development funds of the smaller entity are being spent) are complaining about the economy you can picture how bad it is in smaller rural towns in Eastern Bosnia. His model of development looks good in the short term (i.e. good press coverage) but it is not a long-term solution. The Federation will privatize some mammoth companies soon and billions of euros will be made (most of which will no doubt go into the pockets of corrupt politicians just as they did in the smaller entity) and then you'll see the headlines stating that the "Federation is economically stable etc." Again all the privatizations are short therm shots in the arm for the economy but the only long term development will come when small business are prospering and hiring workers and when foreign investment goes up. I'm sure one could say that Belgrade is doing much better economically then some other parts of Serbia and so what? In any nation certain regions will be economically outperforming others but it's the overall national economy that counts and the overall standards of living for all citizens that really determines the economic success of a nation. And so what if a certain region in Bosnia is doing better then another? As you know thousands of Bosnian refugees are returning to their homes in the smaller entity and the fact that they will be able to find jobs and make a living is good news for them and all Bosnian citizens. Bosnian Serbs have always lived in Bosnia (for over a thousand years) and they have every right to feel that it is their country as much as it is anybody else's, this whole "Republika Srpska" business is silly and Bosnian Serbs will see that in the near future when the time comes for Bosnia to get its act together as a nation and enter NATO and the EU.

Dragan

Bosnia and Herzegovina has been reality for the past thousand years and that's not going to chage. If the Bosnian Serbs really consider Bosnia their homeland (which it is) then why do they act as if they are foreigners? The refuse to mention the name Bosnia, want to delete it from the names of towns, and won't fly its flag. Why? Does this sound like the behavior of people who love their homeland? The Bosnian Serbs are one of the only people in the world who are purposefully disowning their own country in favor of a short-lived entity. How would Serbians feel if people in Vojvodina (which is a legitimate region unlike the RS) refused to fly the Serbian flag and refused to mention the word Serbia. If they acted as if Vojvodina was a separate state from Serbia. Would one still consider them Serbians? The Bosnian Serbs are making a big mistake by renouncing their citizenship and ownership rights to Bosnia and Herzegovina in favor of some fantasy entity. If they truly don't see Bosnia as their homeland then they can't expect other Bosnians to treat them as citizens of the state, rather they will be seen as bothersome foreigners living on Bosnian land.

The Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats would have no problem recognising Kosovo its the Bosnian Serbs who object. I think it is time to dissolve Republika Srpska and fully integrate it into the rest of the country. It is a bit unfair that the Serbs get there own entity, but the Croats don't. Integration of the Serb entity is what the country needs.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.

It must be a lie this one.

Kosova's independence is supported only by Albanians- this is what Serbia is saying all the time.

But the reality is that only Serbia is against.

Today Bosniaks expressed their support, yesterday it was Turks and Montenegrins. Croatian community has always been pro etc...

You can give the notices in sequence but one day you will learn to make a mosaic.

However, by heart we know that you have recognized Kosova the very moment of the declaration.

Niall, do not think that Kosovo and the "RS" entity in Bosnia are linked in any way. Only in the minds of Tadic and Dodik are they linked, in reality they are two completely separate issues with separate solutions. For starters any declaration of "independence" by the "RS" would be followed by the political destruction of the "RS" entity since the Dayton Peace Accords clearly forbid any entity from proclaiming independence, and that is regardless of what happens in Kosovo. If the peace accord is broken by any side in a conflict then the war is bound to resume and any kind of conflict in Bosnia today started by the Bosnian Serbs will clearly result in the Bosnian Serbs losing their entity and becoming part of a unified Bosnian State or them fleeing to Serbia as refugees. So even if Bosnia recognized Kosovo today it would not change anything in Bosnia. Kosovo had a long internationally sponsored program of obtaining independence the "RS" does not and in fact most international and local key players would welcome its destruction so that are normal and functional Bosnian state which would increase stability in the Balkans could emerge.

Ian,
What do you truly know about BiH? What do you know about the Dayton 49-51 split? What do you know about the ethnic makeup of BiH? What do you know about the complexities and political realities on the ground in BiH? What do you know about the consequences of a foolish move like that and the invevitable disintigreation of BiH, that would happen immediately as a result? Do a little bit of homework or travel to BiH on a fact finding mission, before flapping your gums about issues you have no idea about.

"The Bosniaks and Bosnian Croats would have no problem recognising Kosovo its the Bosnian Serbs who object."

The Croats and the Muslims (they do not have exclusive claim to being Bosnian)have been cooperating for a long time. They set up concentration camps and killed Serbs, Jews etc in World War - even the German Nazis were shocked at the Croat/Muslim atrocities - and the Croat/Muslim Nazi SS divisions were the inspiration for the separatist forces during the Yugoslav wars. They also fought against the Serbs in the 1990s and made an agreement to carve up RS. Of course they want another Islamofascist state in the Balkans but they have no say and they have no moral or other legitimacy.

After the visit of the Russian President in October the Balkans will never the same again.......

Yaroslav,

Dodik only made money by privatizing former government-owned companies and selling them to the Russians, Serbians, and some other foreign companies. Now that he has sold off most of the former government-owned companies the amount of revenue coming in will decrease substantially. The Federation still has several big companies that it will privatize making billions of euros in the process and then it will seem as if they are the "best performers". It is simply silly to compare the economies of administrative entities. What counts is the national economy of Bosnia and how it is affecting all of its citizens.

Ian,

You ever heard of Dayton?

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.
(Kosova-USA, 13 August 2009 13:19)

Ooh-hoo-hoo! That will show them! What a paradise they are missing out on by not being allowed to enter the south of Kosovo! :)

The Forum of Bosniaks of Kosovo asked Bosnia to "recognize the independence of Kosovo, and consequently, as soon as possible to recognize the travel documents of Kosovo citizens so that Bosniaks and other citizens of Kosovo can travel freely to the Bosnia".

Do that and Banja Luka will be waving a big sayonara in return.

What's good for the Kosovo goose is good for the Bosnian gander.

well then republika srpska should separate after that, and then in the krajina region of croatia should have all returnees back and then full autonomy there .

Yaroslav,

I agree with you that Dodik sold the former state-owned companies at the right time and made a large profit off of it, however the way in which he spend some of that money is under investigation for corruption. Also selling off state-owned companies is not a long-term formula for success since there is only a limited number of companies that can be sold at a profit. The Federation still has many companies that it will privatize in the upcoming years and billions of euros will be made in the process and hopefully they will not go into the pockets of shady politicians and businessmen. I think that most state-owned companies in Bosnia and Herzegovina should be privatized to improve their efficiency and competitiveness thereby increasing their profit margins. The same is true for all other Balkan countries. However, as the investigation of Dodik shows we need to be careful about how these privatization deals are made and how the profits are assigned to prevent corruption from depriving the citizens of the money they should be getting.

"I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat."
Kosova-USA

Who wants to go to Kosovo and why?

RealityCheck,

Let us not be naive .Higher stability in the long run can be achived only if there are no islamoimerialists in the balkans.Fortunately people all over europe are more and more fed up with pseudoliberal ideas and forced islamization of europe.People will elect in more and more places goverments that oppose this procedures.

I find some of these comments funny.

Well I guess if one's trying to talk oh your neighbours recognized. Well I simply say so what. 70 years ago they were all fascists with designs on making Serbia week, history doesn't seem to change.

Anyways. Montenegrin and FYROM officials have officially acknowledged they were pressured into recognition. Croatian officials have acnowledged that the speed of recognition is the direct result of them wanting to show of too their future American overlords right before the NATO summit.

Now for the claims regarding the Bosniaks in Kosovo. Of course they;re going to say this, the Albanians in "multi-ethnic" Kosovo expelled 70% of them after 1999.

The talk of unidying Bosnia is ridicolous. Croats have nothing bu their own dear leader Tudjman who sold them out for a massive IMF loan before Dayton.

The notion that centralization Bosnia is absurd. It will lead to the same situation as in 1991 and will not be an improvement on the current stat eof their parliament and politics.

Plus. Given that RS has in just a few years of Dodik developed a better economy then the Federation, has less debt isn't prone to bankruptcy and wages are higher it's clear that integrating RS into the rest of Bosnia punishes succesful govenrment.

To "RealityCheck",

If the international community and the Bosnian federation would try to abolish Republika Srpska then they are also breaking the Dayton peace agreement and at that point of time there is no reason for RS to take its responsibility. Considering the fact that some countries in the international community have very flexible ideas about agreements (UNSC 1244 for instance) I would recommend RS to be prepared for the worst. Any aggression against RS should result in Serbia assisting their brothers and sisters in RS by all means. Of course I am aware that some countries in the international community have already planned another ethnic cleansing of Serbs (from Bosnia to Serbia), but it is not going to happen.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.
(Kosova-USA, 13 August 2009 13:19)


Your making me laugh, I’m sure people from Bosnia will lose lots of sleep because they can’t travel to such a tourist Mecca like Kosovo.

I find this comment by these comments by this Reality Check character foolish.

To the same degree Dayton blocks RS independence, UNSC 1244 blocks Kosovo independence.

And if they think Bosnia is stable by going against the wishes of some 40% of it's citizen ( close to 50% if one takes into the fact that Croats favour a weak Bosnia, hence their demands for a third entity ) and by expelling them. Then you are delusional.

Bosnia is just such a mess no matter what they do they cause instability. And if they think what the hypocritical west did in Kosovo makes it more stable then the west should just quit in their idiotic attempts at nation building (how much of a failure Bosnia and Kosovo are compared to states receiving miniscule amounts of foreign aid, Serbia and FYROM is a clear indication of this).


West can abolish RS all they want. Expect Serbs to obstruct the Bosnian parliament even more.

"But the reality is that only Serbia is against"
ben

Serbia is against and another 140 countries. The reason others don't mind an independent Kosovo is that it is not their land to give away. Kosovo is Serbia so of course Serbs are hangin on to their own territory. Why doesn't Croatia give in to the territorial demands of Slovenia? When it's about your own territory it's a different story no isn't it?

Reality Check,

So what if he privatized them. They were extremely inefficient, derelict and decrepit. The money coming in from foreign investors will mkae them competitive, efficient and employ more people and bring more economic benefit.

Plus, so what if he sold them to Serbs, Russians or whoever. They offered the best price it was sold to them. If Bosnians wanted to buy them they sophuld have bid more then Serbs or Russians.

In reality. Government revenues increased because the companies he sold were mostly not making profit, having huge losses and thus earning no income and paying no tax. They have since then become profitable or in the case of the Telekom more profitable, and state debts tied to these government companies are not in the hands of the state but in private foreign owners.

Republika Srpska still has alot of the money from the privatization in reserve.

Also. Dodik sold at the height of inflated prices and even conservative economists estimate that the delay in privatization in the Federation has caused the vlaue to go down (as much as $500 million for the telekom) and at that it's arece3ssion so the value has deflated substantially.

Furthermore. They will enver be the "best performer" even if they privatize. Their spending is alot more then RS, they continue increasing spending, they've gone bankrupt and unlike the centralized RS in the Federation half the money will go to to the cantons which will further waste the money.

They cvan oprivatize all they want. The sale price will be signifcanyl bwelow what it would have been last year and the federation will have a regressibve tax system.

What coutns is that the federation has clearly indicated that the other half of Bosnia will suffer economically if the state is centralized.

There are many people on this site, and in serbia and RS, who wish to finish the destruction of bosnia. and yes, some extreme croats as well. and, in my opinion, some extremist Muslims as well, who are all about religion which comes frightfully close to theocracy. if it were up to these people, our bosnia would have been destroyed long ago, who cares about the genocide, hundred thousand plus dead, etc etc.

now, i do not believe that bosnia (politically) will be destroyed, though it is in a perilous state right now, no question. it does not operate as a country -- it operates as competing ethnic groups, (generally) led by very corrupt politicians, dodik at the forefront.

those of us who understand the situation and are familiar with the actors need to find ways to support that country, one way or another. visit the country, if you can, and let yr govt representatives know that your govt needs to be supporting bosnia, rather than the reverse. that it needs to support a robust OHR, with teeth, thank you very much.

most people in bosnia are really amazing, really beautiful, inside and out. when i meet any particular stranger there, i try so hard NOT to discover what ethnicity they are. you seldom can tell upon first glance, or even from a quick conversation -- sometimes from the name, often not. even in sarajevo you have no idea, all comments here to the contrary.

and at one time nearly 1/3 of all marriages were inter-ethnic! can you imagine, those monsters (karadzic and co.) for whatever their sordid reasons, tried to separate it all out. guess what? it is an impossibility, moreso in bosnia than anywhere i've been. and when they attempted to do it, bosnia became hell on earth, and believe me, that is no hyperbole. as it would again.

i have said before -- if any bosnian wishes to move to croatia or serbia (or anywhere else) they certainly should have that right. but bosnia is not up for grabs, not by serbia, not by croatia, not by saudi arabia, not by nobody.

the attempts by the s- nationalists to exploit the situation and equate a free Kosovoa with a castrated bosnia is a cynical and ugly attempt to retell history, and it won't fly.

unfortunately, bosnia's recognition of kosovo/a is being held hostage to all of this. but if serbia, not to mention bosnia, ever wishes to get into the eu and be taken seriously on the intl stage, things must change.

roberto
frisco

Ian Uk@2, you do write a lot of nonsense.

Croats in Bosnia don't want to be in federation any more than the Serbs. The difference between the Croats and Serbs is that Serbs fought for what they have and never sold out to US while the Croats agreed to be part of the federation in order to get support from the west and look like the good guys.

How many Muslims did the Croats kill? Many, many of them but since they agreed to be part of the federation it's all swept under the carpet. Muslims killed a lot of Croats too, so there is no way they want to be together. Unfortunately for them they signed something they shouldnt've and now they are stuck with it while resenting the fact that Serbs stuck to their guns and now have their own land.

Now that's reality my good man. Like it or not.

I have actually met a Croatian from Herzegovina who came here to Australia to visit her sister. She hates being in the federation because of the blood shed and she represents many Croatian voices there.

Bosnia is doomed because two of their people don't want it to exist. The want to join their brothers in Serbia and Croatia. Ian if you truly belive in self rule like you do for Albanians in Kosovo then you must allow these people the same.

Bosnia is doomed because two of their people don't want it to exist. The want to join their brothers in Serbia and Croatia. Ian if you truly belive in self rule like you do for Albanians in Kosovo then you must allow these people the same.
(Peggy, 14 August 2009 01:44)

Are you going to allow the same for Albanians, Peggy? Just wondering!

Dragan,

As I've said before Dodik got the smaller BiH entity money by selling government owned companies to Russian and Serbian investors and now he's spending it on some good projects and on some questionable projects (Corruption Investigation). The industrial output of the smaller BiH entity has not improved much and in fact many people have lost their jobs, I know because I'm in touch with people in Banja Luka and believe me the picture is not as rosy as you'd think. And if people living in Banja Luka (the town in which almost all of the development funds of the smaller entity are being spent) are complaining about the economy you can picture how bad it is in smaller rural towns in Eastern Bosnia. His model of development looks good in the short term (i.e. good press coverage) but it is not a long-term solution. The Federation will privatize some mammoth companies soon and billions of euros will be made (most of which will no doubt go into the pockets of corrupt politicians just as they did in the smaller entity) and then you'll see the headlines stating that the "Federation is economically stable etc." Again all the privatizations are short therm shots in the arm for the economy but the only long term development will come when small business are prospering and hiring workers and when foreign investment goes up. I'm sure one could say that Belgrade is doing much better economically then some other parts of Serbia and so what? In any nation certain regions will be economically outperforming others but it's the overall national economy that counts and the overall standards of living for all citizens that really determines the economic success of a nation. And so what if a certain region in Bosnia is doing better then another? As you know thousands of Bosnian refugees are returning to their homes in the smaller entity and the fact that they will be able to find jobs and make a living is good news for them and all Bosnian citizens. Bosnian Serbs have always lived in Bosnia (for over a thousand years) and they have every right to feel that it is their country as much as it is anybody else's, this whole "Republika Srpska" business is silly and Bosnian Serbs will see that in the near future when the time comes for Bosnia to get its act together as a nation and enter NATO and the EU.

reality check,

most eu member states (especially in the west) have private corporations. That is how capitalism works.

Maybe...

Serbs in Bosnia wouldn't mind recognizing Kosovo and the Bosniaks don't want to recognize. Kind of "funny" if you really think about it.

I hope Kosova Govermant will pass abill to fobid anyone with BIH passport from entering Kosova. tit for tat.
(Kosova-USA, 13 August 2009 13:19)

Can you pls propose them to do the same for swiss passport holders so that I will not succumb to the temptation to travel there...

As to the article, am just woundering at the end how many countries freely decided about this illegal UDI, a handfull at most, all the rest were subject to black mail, pressure, carrots, bribes, the list is too long...

Peggy,

The majority of Bosnian citizens support having a fully democratic and multi-ethinc Bosnian state. The question is not wether Bosnian people want to have a Bosnian state or not, it is what kind of state they want to have. They should decide for themselves what kind of state they want, but the current model is simply unsustainable because the country can not move forward and it is sinking in corruption and dysfuntion. The EU and US need to help Bosnian politicians reach a new constituional framework that will pelase the majority of people from all ethnic groups and that will make the country sustainable, stable, and prosperous for the benefit of all its citizens.

Dragan

Bosnia and Herzegovina has been reality for the past thousand years and that's not going to chage. If the Bosnian Serbs really consider Bosnia their homeland (which it is) then why do they act as if they are foreigners? The refuse to mention the name Bosnia, want to delete it from the names of towns, and won't fly its flag. Why? Does this sound like the behavior of people who love their homeland? The Bosnian Serbs are one of the only people in the world who are purposefully disowning their own country in favor of a short-lived entity. How would Serbians feel if people in Vojvodina (which is a legitimate region unlike the RS) refused to fly the Serbian flag and refused to mention the word Serbia. If they acted as if Vojvodina was a separate state from Serbia. Would one still consider them Serbians? The Bosnian Serbs are making a big mistake by renouncing their citizenship and ownership rights to Bosnia and Herzegovina in favor of some fantasy entity. If they truly don't see Bosnia as their homeland then they can't expect other Bosnians to treat them as citizens of the state, rather they will be seen as bothersome foreigners living on Bosnian land.

Are you going to allow the same for Albanians, Peggy? Just wondering!
(Kosova-USA, 14 August 2009 14:41)

NO. Simple. Kosovo was always Serbian and so was Bosnia. Before the great conversion to Islam who was actually on the ground there. Who was converted? Serbs were converted to Islam so as you see it was theirs.

Ian believes that just because the Albanians overpopulated Kosovo by migration from Albania and an extremely high birth rate they should have it. Now if he believes that, then he should have no problem allowing the Serbs and Croats to take their chunk of Bosnia and run with it. I never said that it was OK. Ian did, but it's definately OK for the Serbs to have their land they had for a very, very long time.

Is this answer adequate for you?

Reality Check,

Republika Srpska is a reality on the ground and ironed out by the will of a constituent people in BiH. They fought for it, shed blood for it and believe in it. Serbs have not just been in BiH for over a thousand years, they are indigenous to the land as well. RS is far better off than the Federation in all areas. As for claims about corruption in the RS, I'm sure there is, like anywhere else...but the federation is far more complicit in that respect. But attempting to smear Dodik, the Federation is failing, as he is a hardworking man of character and integrity...can't see many politicians or so-called leaders in the Federation like that. Regarding corruption, look at the US...what is lobbying? Buying off of politicians for...? Go visit BiH...go spend some time in Banja Luka, Sarajevo, Mostar and speak with peoples on that ground before giving solutions based on internet articles. As for Serbia, Belgrade is the economic heart and most of the jobs are there and in the surrounding areas...but hey...Subotica, Gornji Milanovac, Jagodina and Vrsac are versatile in their economies and have opportunites in vast sectors.

Realitycheck,

Are you sure that a majority of the citizens of BiH want that? How sure are you? Have you ever been to RS or the Federation, or do you skim through news articles on the net? First off, Dodik has done an amazing job to the economy of RS, creating sound fiscal policy and reducing unemployment, while the Federation is in deficit, high unemployment, corruption and total unhappiness.
As for reworking the constitution, don't all three constituent peoples first have to agree to it? Its not gonna happen and neither is the failed police reform (it failed...). If anything, within 20 + years BiH will be no more. Do yourself a favour and visit BiH then post your fables.

Hey Realitycheck,

I am part Bosnian Serb. Part Vojvodina Slovak and elements of Hungarian. I was born in Pancevo. Guess what I consider myself? I have family in BiH, Croatia, Serbia and Montenegro. Guess what I consider myself? I have facts that speak louder than researched articles off the net like you do. I'm over there yearly, sometimes twice a year. Go visit those areas and then speak.

If people want to live in RS, they can move there. It is not a truly homogenous state. There are pockers in which those with the desire can work to achieve demographic change. 3 generations commiting themselves to dominating the RS. That is all it will take. It has worked before and will again.