Romania pledges support in ICJ case

My heartfelt congratulations to the Romanian Government for supporting justice and the territorial integrity of Balkan nations.

The "Kosovo experiment" is one step closer to failure.

Kosovo is Serbia

Congratulations to the Romanian government for it's stance. If some other goverments do the same, and support drastically the Serbian party to the ICJ, then the "american pie" called Kosovo will soon be a monsterous state entity that will have no basis to survive as a separate and sovereign state. It is not that difficult. Spain and Greece should follow Romania and physically "cancel" the future that Kosovo can have - especially the one related to Europe....

Are the Romanians not getting their rights in Serbia? Is Serbia not allowing them to speak their own language, practice their own religion, etc. I don't hear too much on this topic. All I hear is the Albanians, day in and day out, complaining about the country they live in.

Mircea are you saying that the poor folks vlachs dont know who they are? Is that what they teach you in eu :)) what will you be saying when you become real member i fear to think ;) seriously mircea that's offensive any way you look at it. be a cultured european :)

adrian its evening, getting twilighty over the water isnt it :) Danube sure is beautiful all along our border and i'm glad we share it. but look, i hate artificial problems. we serbs like romanians. in romania and in serbia. they're good neighbours and good citizens. only across drina in republika srpska we have such fine people on our border. we hope we are the same to you. support over kosovo will not be forgotten believe me. but why funny empty threats and fake problems. Romania will never recognize kosovo anything for as long as you got hungarians looking to dismember your own country. I'm sure you dont want to screw up your own country :) so lets talk like grownups here. we have 20 plus national minorties in serbia and we treat them all fine. otherwise you'd have screams and shouts all over cnn bbc and the like. also, believe me, many many screams in our newspapers. any minor problem, well i'm sure our governments will solve it quick. If there are problems they are inherited from communist yugoslavia and communist romania. we serbs were discriminated in yugoslavia on ethnicity grounds too. little known fact:we couldn't freely be serbs. but since you suggest those poor people vlachs were brainwashed somehow into believing they are who they are not, see what i told mircea. but well if that's what it is it takes generations. dont mention serbian governments.

If this is support....read the last paragraphs! You have to give Vlachs (Vlasi) schools in their language, Romanian Churches, and full right or no EU for Serbia. Kosova is no where near joining EU anyway

"Romania to support Serbia, that is fine.
I just wonder what is the price that Serbia must pay."
Olf

I can tell that you and your people don't have much confidence in other nations and people. That explains why you albanians are so isolated as a people with no true frinds. Every country is not like America. Romania is helping Serbia to preserve international law. That's their intention behind this initiative.

@Olf: According to romanian press he said: "In a decent way and in the spirit of our good relations, we should ask our serbian friends to give romanians here the right to learn in romanian language, to preserve their romanian culture, to go to the romanian orthodox church, to be politically represented, the same way we give those rights to the serbian minority in Romania."

He referred to Timok-Vallley romanians, the ones serbs call "vlasi".

Good for Romania!

It's ironic that people on here speak about the rights of minorities, which I'm sure need improving in various areas.

But they also need improving in most countries to one degree or another. There are minority groups who are treated terribly in Germany, the UK, France and especially the US.

I think the situation with the Romanian minority in Serbia is overall maybe the best from all of our neighbours. I have some friends from Serbian Banat and they all had acces to bilingual schools and even public administration in Romanian. The problem with the Vlachs is that they have a much poorer national identity. They are heavily Serbianized Romanians and as such have a mixed up identity. Like the Ceangai in Romania (Hungarians mixed with Romanians).

Still, we should recognized that compared to the 150.000 Romanians in Odessa, Ukraine, the situation for Romanians in Serbia is better.

However, the real reasons Romania backs Serbia are:
1. Out of guilt for 1999, when Romania sort of backstabbed Serbia by giving NATO flyover rights, against our only neighbour that never harmed us.
2. Public opinion is largely pro-Serbian, and so is the media.
3. Fears that the Kosovo model might extend to Moldova, which might lead to 150.000 Romanians-speaking Moldovans remain under rusophone rule.
4. To a smaller degree the Hungarian issue. Hungarians are a smaller and smaller minority, and are not located close to the border. So they cannot really secede. Even less now that Romania and Hungary are both in the EU and NATO.

Overall, I can only wish all the bests for Serbia, Romania's best neighbour (after the Black Sea of course).

Adrian how's it going your side of the river. kladovo sure is a nice place. 10 yrs ago when i was a young.. well nevermind i wont digress :)
Anyroad how do you suppose that vlasi/vlachs call themselves? me i'm serb and i call them whatever they call themselves. if i hear one vlach like once president zoran lilic for ex. call himself romanian i'll do the same and i'm sure the rest of serbia will too. i dont see a problem here. even if romanians want to make vlachs call themselves romanians and vlachs dont complain, its fine. only if they do complain the state of serbia will have to defend them. such a non issue.

@Svojgazda:
In Vojvodina yes,in Timok not.Serbia isn`t ready for a compromise:Consider them whatever you want (even if they speak a mixture of banat/oltenia dialect), but then give them scools in "vlach" language, curches in "vlach" language, let them be represented as "vlach" minority in Belgrade.
The only reason our president held that speech in Kladovo was to give Belgrade a "friendly warning". Mentioning Kosovo was part of that. The next warnings could be "less friendly". We could bring up the issue in Brussels, we could offer citizenship to all romanians in Serbia (you would have less "vlachs" then, but a lot of romanian EU citizens both in the east and in Vojvodina. And - as a last warning - we could recognize Kosovo passports. But i hope Belgrade does not want to screw up relations with it`s only ally in the neighborhood.

@Kate: I know Germany quite well. The minorities are frisians, danes and sorbs. AFAIK they have more rights than most minorities in eastern Europe

I think "pledges support" is a bit wrong. Romania stands for her opinion and there's no need to comment other countries' opinions.
The fun part is that it was the Romanian legal team that last time defeated Sir Michael Wood (a.k.a ICJ "Kosova" legal team leader).
It's gonna be really interesting to find out if Sir Wood has any aces left and not give in to the temptation on focusing on others' opinions. This time he has to attack.

@smile:

They call themselves "vlasi" in serbian or "rumuni" in their dialects. Well, i call myself "banatean" in my dialect. They know the official romanian language only from TV since the Serbian state tried to declare them as something else. Don´t ask me why,since we don`t have any territorial claims in Serbia. As i said, consider them vlasi, but give them the minority rights they deserve. Nothing more.

Serbia should do more to protect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia. Serbia should protect the language, culture and religious freedoms of the Romanian minority in the Timok Valley.

I agree with our president Basescu.

“We are trying, in the most friendly way possible, to convince our friends in Serbia that the Romanian minority in their country must enjoy all the rights which Serbs in Romania enjoy."

Romania to support Serbia, that is fine.
I just wonder what is the price that Serbia must pay. I cant belive that I am saying this but this is where Serbia has come to.

Mircea and Adrian, how many minorities in Romania enjoy schools in their own language?
We have heaps of migrants from all over the world here in Australia but English is the official language and believe me, you won't get a degree in any other language here.

Also, my daughter's godfather is from Serbia but calls himself Serb or Romanian depending on how he feels at any give time.
His family has lived in Serbia for generations but he speaks Romanian perfectly. I have heard him many times speaking to his father. Where do you think they learned Romanian considering they have lived in Serbia for generations if Serb have been opressing them and foricing them to lose their language?

Stop making problems where there is none.

Olf,

Romania wants the Romanian minority in Serbia to enjoy the same rights that the Serbs enjoy in Romania.

Olf, Romania is asking for equal treatment.

smile,

Vlachs are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language.

The Serbian authorities have divided the Romanian minority in Serbia into Vlachs and Romanians in order to weaken the Romanian minority in Serbia.

Mike

I am not Albanian national.
Albanians are not isolated at all, you're mistaken, you have maybe wanted to say Serbia.
Serbia-International Law- Romania-Russia combination that has not ever functioned since all of them breach Int. law everyday.

sure they speak perfect romanian - dialect. And even if Serbia would declare them chinese, they would continue to speak it. But that is no excuse for the lack of minority rights in Timok.
(adrian, timisoara, 11 August 2009 12:14)

How exactly do you know what Romanian he speaks? Have you heard him speak?

All you are doing is assuming, so stop making yourself sound clever when clearly you have no idea.

smile,

The Vlachs know exactly who they are. They know that they are Romanians and that they speak the Romanian language.

There is no "Vlach nation" or "Vlach language".

The problem is that Serbia is trying to assimilate the Romanian minority in the Timok Valley.

As I mentioned before, the Serbian authorities are dividing the Romanian minority into Vlachs and Romanians in order to weaken the Romanian minority.

@Peggy: Two short answers.
"Mircea and Adrian, how many minorities in Romania enjoy schools in their own language?"

All, except the gypsies. Don`t ask me why they don`thave schools in their language.

"His family has lived in Serbia for generations but he speaks Romanian perfectly."

sure they speak perfect romanian - dialect. And even if Serbia would declare them chinese, they would continue to speak it. But that is no excuse for the lack of minority rights in Timok.

@smile:

My neighbor is a serb, i have lots of friends in Novi Sad, Vrsac and Beograd, govorim srpski jezik etc. and no, we will not recognize Kosovo asa state as long as Russia does not recognize Transnistria. But in Timok we do have a problem. Every minority in Serbia gets its rights, except them. And that`s a big issue in my country.

Romania to support Serbia, that is fine.
I just wonder what is the price that Serbia must pay. I cant belive that I am saying this but this is where Serbia has come to.

Serbia should do more to protect the rights of the Romanian minority in Serbia. Serbia should protect the language, culture and religious freedoms of the Romanian minority in the Timok Valley.

I agree with our president Basescu.

“We are trying, in the most friendly way possible, to convince our friends in Serbia that the Romanian minority in their country must enjoy all the rights which Serbs in Romania enjoy."

smile,

Vlachs are Romanians and they speak the Romanian language.

The Serbian authorities have divided the Romanian minority in Serbia into Vlachs and Romanians in order to weaken the Romanian minority in Serbia.

@Svojgazda:
In Vojvodina yes,in Timok not.Serbia isn`t ready for a compromise:Consider them whatever you want (even if they speak a mixture of banat/oltenia dialect), but then give them scools in "vlach" language, curches in "vlach" language, let them be represented as "vlach" minority in Belgrade.
The only reason our president held that speech in Kladovo was to give Belgrade a "friendly warning". Mentioning Kosovo was part of that. The next warnings could be "less friendly". We could bring up the issue in Brussels, we could offer citizenship to all romanians in Serbia (you would have less "vlachs" then, but a lot of romanian EU citizens both in the east and in Vojvodina. And - as a last warning - we could recognize Kosovo passports. But i hope Belgrade does not want to screw up relations with it`s only ally in the neighborhood.

Olf,

Romania wants the Romanian minority in Serbia to enjoy the same rights that the Serbs enjoy in Romania.

Olf, Romania is asking for equal treatment.

Mike

I am not Albanian national.
Albanians are not isolated at all, you're mistaken, you have maybe wanted to say Serbia.
Serbia-International Law- Romania-Russia combination that has not ever functioned since all of them breach Int. law everyday.

My heartfelt congratulations to the Romanian Government for supporting justice and the territorial integrity of Balkan nations.

The "Kosovo experiment" is one step closer to failure.

Kosovo is Serbia

If this is support....read the last paragraphs! You have to give Vlachs (Vlasi) schools in their language, Romanian Churches, and full right or no EU for Serbia. Kosova is no where near joining EU anyway

Are the Romanians not getting their rights in Serbia? Is Serbia not allowing them to speak their own language, practice their own religion, etc. I don't hear too much on this topic. All I hear is the Albanians, day in and day out, complaining about the country they live in.

smile,

The Vlachs know exactly who they are. They know that they are Romanians and that they speak the Romanian language.

There is no "Vlach nation" or "Vlach language".

The problem is that Serbia is trying to assimilate the Romanian minority in the Timok Valley.

As I mentioned before, the Serbian authorities are dividing the Romanian minority into Vlachs and Romanians in order to weaken the Romanian minority.

Congratulations to the Romanian government for it's stance. If some other goverments do the same, and support drastically the Serbian party to the ICJ, then the "american pie" called Kosovo will soon be a monsterous state entity that will have no basis to survive as a separate and sovereign state. It is not that difficult. Spain and Greece should follow Romania and physically "cancel" the future that Kosovo can have - especially the one related to Europe....

"Romania to support Serbia, that is fine.
I just wonder what is the price that Serbia must pay."
Olf

I can tell that you and your people don't have much confidence in other nations and people. That explains why you albanians are so isolated as a people with no true frinds. Every country is not like America. Romania is helping Serbia to preserve international law. That's their intention behind this initiative.

Mircea are you saying that the poor folks vlachs dont know who they are? Is that what they teach you in eu :)) what will you be saying when you become real member i fear to think ;) seriously mircea that's offensive any way you look at it. be a cultured european :)

adrian its evening, getting twilighty over the water isnt it :) Danube sure is beautiful all along our border and i'm glad we share it. but look, i hate artificial problems. we serbs like romanians. in romania and in serbia. they're good neighbours and good citizens. only across drina in republika srpska we have such fine people on our border. we hope we are the same to you. support over kosovo will not be forgotten believe me. but why funny empty threats and fake problems. Romania will never recognize kosovo anything for as long as you got hungarians looking to dismember your own country. I'm sure you dont want to screw up your own country :) so lets talk like grownups here. we have 20 plus national minorties in serbia and we treat them all fine. otherwise you'd have screams and shouts all over cnn bbc and the like. also, believe me, many many screams in our newspapers. any minor problem, well i'm sure our governments will solve it quick. If there are problems they are inherited from communist yugoslavia and communist romania. we serbs were discriminated in yugoslavia on ethnicity grounds too. little known fact:we couldn't freely be serbs. but since you suggest those poor people vlachs were brainwashed somehow into believing they are who they are not, see what i told mircea. but well if that's what it is it takes generations. dont mention serbian governments.

Mircea and Adrian, how many minorities in Romania enjoy schools in their own language?
We have heaps of migrants from all over the world here in Australia but English is the official language and believe me, you won't get a degree in any other language here.

Also, my daughter's godfather is from Serbia but calls himself Serb or Romanian depending on how he feels at any give time.
His family has lived in Serbia for generations but he speaks Romanian perfectly. I have heard him many times speaking to his father. Where do you think they learned Romanian considering they have lived in Serbia for generations if Serb have been opressing them and foricing them to lose their language?

Stop making problems where there is none.

@smile:

My neighbor is a serb, i have lots of friends in Novi Sad, Vrsac and Beograd, govorim srpski jezik etc. and no, we will not recognize Kosovo asa state as long as Russia does not recognize Transnistria. But in Timok we do have a problem. Every minority in Serbia gets its rights, except them. And that`s a big issue in my country.

@Olf: According to romanian press he said: "In a decent way and in the spirit of our good relations, we should ask our serbian friends to give romanians here the right to learn in romanian language, to preserve their romanian culture, to go to the romanian orthodox church, to be politically represented, the same way we give those rights to the serbian minority in Romania."

He referred to Timok-Vallley romanians, the ones serbs call "vlasi".

Good for Romania!

It's ironic that people on here speak about the rights of minorities, which I'm sure need improving in various areas.

But they also need improving in most countries to one degree or another. There are minority groups who are treated terribly in Germany, the UK, France and especially the US.

@Kate: I know Germany quite well. The minorities are frisians, danes and sorbs. AFAIK they have more rights than most minorities in eastern Europe

Adrian how's it going your side of the river. kladovo sure is a nice place. 10 yrs ago when i was a young.. well nevermind i wont digress :)
Anyroad how do you suppose that vlasi/vlachs call themselves? me i'm serb and i call them whatever they call themselves. if i hear one vlach like once president zoran lilic for ex. call himself romanian i'll do the same and i'm sure the rest of serbia will too. i dont see a problem here. even if romanians want to make vlachs call themselves romanians and vlachs dont complain, its fine. only if they do complain the state of serbia will have to defend them. such a non issue.

I think "pledges support" is a bit wrong. Romania stands for her opinion and there's no need to comment other countries' opinions.
The fun part is that it was the Romanian legal team that last time defeated Sir Michael Wood (a.k.a ICJ "Kosova" legal team leader).
It's gonna be really interesting to find out if Sir Wood has any aces left and not give in to the temptation on focusing on others' opinions. This time he has to attack.

I think the situation with the Romanian minority in Serbia is overall maybe the best from all of our neighbours. I have some friends from Serbian Banat and they all had acces to bilingual schools and even public administration in Romanian. The problem with the Vlachs is that they have a much poorer national identity. They are heavily Serbianized Romanians and as such have a mixed up identity. Like the Ceangai in Romania (Hungarians mixed with Romanians).

Still, we should recognized that compared to the 150.000 Romanians in Odessa, Ukraine, the situation for Romanians in Serbia is better.

However, the real reasons Romania backs Serbia are:
1. Out of guilt for 1999, when Romania sort of backstabbed Serbia by giving NATO flyover rights, against our only neighbour that never harmed us.
2. Public opinion is largely pro-Serbian, and so is the media.
3. Fears that the Kosovo model might extend to Moldova, which might lead to 150.000 Romanians-speaking Moldovans remain under rusophone rule.
4. To a smaller degree the Hungarian issue. Hungarians are a smaller and smaller minority, and are not located close to the border. So they cannot really secede. Even less now that Romania and Hungary are both in the EU and NATO.

Overall, I can only wish all the bests for Serbia, Romania's best neighbour (after the Black Sea of course).

@Peggy: Two short answers.
"Mircea and Adrian, how many minorities in Romania enjoy schools in their own language?"

All, except the gypsies. Don`t ask me why they don`thave schools in their language.

"His family has lived in Serbia for generations but he speaks Romanian perfectly."

sure they speak perfect romanian - dialect. And even if Serbia would declare them chinese, they would continue to speak it. But that is no excuse for the lack of minority rights in Timok.

@smile:

They call themselves "vlasi" in serbian or "rumuni" in their dialects. Well, i call myself "banatean" in my dialect. They know the official romanian language only from TV since the Serbian state tried to declare them as something else. Don´t ask me why,since we don`t have any territorial claims in Serbia. As i said, consider them vlasi, but give them the minority rights they deserve. Nothing more.

sure they speak perfect romanian - dialect. And even if Serbia would declare them chinese, they would continue to speak it. But that is no excuse for the lack of minority rights in Timok.
(adrian, timisoara, 11 August 2009 12:14)

How exactly do you know what Romanian he speaks? Have you heard him speak?

All you are doing is assuming, so stop making yourself sound clever when clearly you have no idea.