Friday, 07.08.2009.
10:20
Officials in Albania have told Council of Europe's Dick Marty that "there can be no organ trade probe based on accusations of Carla Del Ponte or Belgrade".
Izvor: FoNet
pre 14 godina
Yes dudes, Albania has something to cover up :) You go now after 10 years and you want to find proofs? What proofs? Are you insane? If Albanians were so good to make transplant surgeries in a village where electricity is cut every few hours they would been able to erase every sign of such surgeries...didn't they have 10 years to do that?
pre 14 godina
P.S. so that you understand.
You can not investigate on something which didn't exist at the time, the Albanian state.
pre 14 godina
Matthew,
The state in Albania disappeared during those years, due to the failing of the pyramid schemes, which the state had endorsed. People lost their money, and turned on the state and the state collapsed. The army(what was left of it) collapsed too, so all its depots were left unguarded, and the people got a lot of weapons, which the KLA bought with its own money. Serbia had a couple of those pyramid schemes too, financing Milosevic. I remember a woman showing the safes full of money on tv to have the Serbs reassured.
If there was any help to the KLA, it came from private individuals, not from the state, which did not exist.
I wish there had been a state to help the KLA, maybe the KLA would have performed better, but there was no state.
I would suggest you to keep out Afghanistan or Iraq, because they have nothing to do with this part of the world.
pre 14 godina
Poor Albania, they dream of joining the EU but walk in the other direction.
pre 14 godina
“Mathew you may try to twist things as much as you want. Fact is Albania was not one of the sides of the war.
(johny, 8 August 2009 01:57)”
So you are claiming that no KLA ever entered Albanian territory? That Albania did its best to keep weapons from flowing into Kosovo? That no one in Albania supplied funds or aid to the rebels? That no Albanians from Albania participated in the conflict?
I find those assertions highly dubious.
Fact is, Albania’s full role in the conflict has never completely been investigated and many questions remain unanswered.
Keep in mind the Taliban were wiped out of Afghanistan by the US because Bin Laden attacked the US. They did nothing more than give Bin Laden a place to train his terrorists, they were not involved in any way with 9/11.
Do you think Serbia had the right to do the same with Albania? Or do you think American policy in Afghanistan was completely wrong?
Or do you believe there should be one rule for the US and a different rule for Serbia?
What about Iraq? Up to a million civilians have been killed there by American forces. That’s OK with you though isn’t it? 2,000 Albanians is justification for cluster bombs, but 1 million Iraqi’s is just collateral damage?
pre 14 godina
John Eulex
I somehow i dont believe you work for EULEX. As an EULEX employee you should know much more than you are showing here. Or maybe you are just administrative staff??
pre 14 godina
Your arrogance knows know bounds. I AM a EULEX employee, I AM American, and I AM disgusted by Albania's lack of cooperation. Despite what you may like to think, not everyone in EULEX is biased towards Albanians. Some of us are for unbiased policing. Believe what you like, but do not doubt for one second that there are not many, many others like me working here in Pristina. Dick Marty has nothing to do with this cover up by Albania. If the allegations are untrue, let the investigation say so. Delaying and obstructing justice is wrong. Period.
(John, 7 August 2009 23:04)
John, as far as I know there were several investigations carried out by the Hague Tribunal, UNMIK, and now EULEX has taken the case. So if you are an EULEX employee stick to it and do your job, bring justice and rule of law, that’s why you are here, or not?
Del Ponte was the head of Hague Tribunal, why didn’t she raise charges on such claims? Several KLA members were tried and released by the same court.
I am for investigations on this issue, but why not have a different approach? Like have a joint investigation of Albanian, Serbian, Kosovo prosecutors together with Dick Marty? Wouldn’t that be a more pragmatic approach to the case?
And as someone said it above, if it is proven by investigation that these allegations are untrue, then Serbia should be really held accountable for ruining the image of an independent country.
Recently three Serbs were arrested in Kosovo on charges that they were “recruiting” witnesses, by bribing them, to witness that they somehow were victims of ‘organ harvesting’ by KLA. Why doesn’t Dick Marty investigate that as a start? There is sufficient proof in this issue. There are transcripts of recordings and if B92 will publish them, I’m willing to translate them into English for free.
This whole case seems to be politicized and aimed at ruining the image of Albania and the Kosovo Albanians, and even NATO and EU, not really that much at finding the whereabouts of the missing persons.
See this link and let me know what you think?
http://de-construct.net/e-zine/?p=1360
pre 14 godina
Of course Albania refuses because this is not true,organ harvesting is not a carpentry busines to cut some parts and screw them together.
This is hard to be done in most sophisticated clinics in the west and Balkans none of the countries didnt have those things if if they wanted to do such a thing.
I thing it's a shame for any country to think that this might happened.
cheers from the west!
pre 14 godina
"Interesting how the Serbian prosecution got on top of this issue right after Carla's book, which by the way was based on reports of hearsay. Evidence on hearsay won't get you anywhere.
Thankfully Albania has a principled stand on this issue and will not be played by Serbia's propaganda machine."
(Art, 7 August 2009 14:41)
What you should be amazed of Art is the capacity of Serbia to turn this into a request for investigation by an institution of Europe. After an investigation has already been done, and of damaging Albania's image. Albanian politicians, should maybe learn a lesson or two from this whole story, and why not from their Serbian counterparts.
"At first, I thought it was complete nonsense, but now I strongly feel they should be investigated, if only to disclose the involvement of Albania in the Yugoslav wars."
(Matthew, 7 August 2009 23:48)
I can try to give you an idea about Albania in 1997-98 Matthew. Do you know jungle? Anarchy? Imagine a total lack of the state. At least a gun for every family, Kalashnikovs going for 10 euros, kids playing with bombs. Not exaggerating things, all true. 1998 actually started getting a little bit calmer, so it was a little bit calmer than total anarchy.
Now, good luck with finding reponsibilities in the jungle.
pre 14 godina
Well done Albania!Albanians should be proud of your governments decision for not letting them investigate something that the UN,OSCE etc.didn't find any evidence.Case CLOSED!Serbia has enough cases to investigate in it's own soil!Serbia is full of mass graves with transported K-Albanian bodies,what make someone to believe that the Serbs were one who took organs from K-Albanians, since they were transported a live in Serbia...then put in a river or buried in mass graves?So again,Albanian Gov.did great job denying Serb (not the international)Investigators to go in Albanian soil.Mr.Dick(head) Marty is just an ally of C. Del Ponte & S.Milosevic.Some ppl say that the EU should pressure Albania to allow this investigation! The EU can't do anything about it.Albania survived without EU for many Milleniums...they will survive the future without the EU too!
pre 14 godina
Why should Albania allow such an investigation? No, sovereign country in the world allows that unless they are occupied by a foreign force. I am not sure whether there is some truth to Carla Del Ponte’s accusation. If it is true however, it's a horrible injustice done to the parents of the missing Serbs and Non Albanians. I believe that the best place to look for evidence is Carla Del Ponte herself. If she is accepting all the royalties for that book, she may as well accept to disclose her witnesses and all the evidence she gathered to embellish her book. She should be forced by the International Court of Justice to explain her evidence now or during the upcoming law suit coming from Albanians. And if her accusations have some true substance, the shear weight of it, would corner Albania into accepting such an investigation.
pre 14 godina
There was an official investigation by the Hague Tribunal on this issue, in Albania also, and the conclusion was that all these rumours hold no truths. This goes for John the American in EULEX as well. I am an American as well. My taxes pay your salary. So enough with this because you're American, because you work for EULEX your opinion is somehow worth more. Read again there was an investigation and the rumours were found to be lies.
Albania as an independent state does not submit its sovereignty to Serbian wishes be it direct or telegraphed through this dude. Instead of begging the Albanian state to open an investigation you think that by pressuring Albania Serbian wishes and desire for propaganda would come true. The response from our minister was mature and correct. One day you call the whole Albanian ethnicity terrorists and the next day you want cooperation. It doesn't work like that. We were not born yesterday. Your approach is totally wrong.
Mathew you may try to twist things as much as you want. Fact is Albania was not one of the sides of the war.
pre 14 godina
One of the reasons one would not allow an investigation, is because he knows he has something to hide.
pre 14 godina
---"I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply."
"And i am the Queen of England here to remind you that Dick Marty does NOT work for EU."
@Arta,
Your arrogance knows know bounds. I AM a EULEX employee, I AM American, and I AM disgusted by Albania's lack of cooperation. Despite what you may like to think, not everyone in EULEX is biased towards Albanians. Some of us are for unbiased policing. Believe what you like, but do not doubt for one second that there are not many, many others like me working here in Pristina. Dick Marty has nothing to do with this cover up by Albania. If the allegations are untrue, let the investigation say so. Delaying and obstructing justice is wrong. Period.
pre 14 godina
Let’s examine some of the claims being made here by the Albanian side.
“Hague does not apply to Albania as it was not a part of Jugoslavia and it wasn't one of the sides that were at war each other.”
“we are speaking of an independent country that hasn't been or participated in a war since WWII.”
These crimes started in Kosovo, part of Yugoslavia, and Albania participated in training and arming the KLA and supplied bases from which to carry out the attacks. Albania was absolutely involved in the war and their involvement MUST be investigated and determined. Serbia absolutely has a right to investigate and demand the extradition of any Albanians involved since the kidnappings occurred on their soil.
“Serbian governmental mouthpieces like B92… all they do is turn myths into propaganda that the Serbs here on B92 are too happy to buy.”
You don’t know much about the history of B92 then, Milosevic HATED them, they are not a nationalist mouth piece, they are the voice of the opposition and practically the only media in Serbia to report on Milosevic’s crimes while he was in power.
“how about coming to Serbia to investigate the Albanian missing people. There are 2000 of them as of today?”
“I have still to see Serbia allowing Albanian investigators to investigate 2000 missing Albanians in Serbia.”
“300 Serbs are missing, but 2000 Albanians are STILL missing as well.”
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=04&dd=27&nav_category=102&nav_id=40930
Yes, 2,000 are missing, but only 1,300 are Albanians. That means 35% of the missing are non-Albanians, FAR above what their percentage of the population are. The former KLA leaders have a lot yet to answer for in Kosovo. I can’t believe I’m seeing these sorts of distortions of the truth see going on when its clearly documented by multiple sources.
“In case this investigation like the Hague one proves that these rumours hold no truths, Serbia has to pay for the damages that incurred the state of Albania. Damages such as tarnishing the country's image”
Oh I agree. I also think lies and rumors like 800,000 Albanians killed or missing in Kosovo should also be punished, after all Serbia was majorly bombed for months because of it (including cluster bombs), and the reality turned out to be only 2,000 were killed in an ugly insurgency before the bombing took place, an extremely low number for the type of guerilla war that was going on. In Iraq for example, hundreds of thousands, some say a million, Iraqi’s were killed since the US invasion. 2,000 versus 1 million? What should be done to those countries and media outlets that support and created these lies against the Serbian nation? Slander at its worst.
I still remained unconvinced the organ thefts took place, they are just too fantastic to take at face value. At first, I thought it was complete nonsense, but now I strongly feel they should be investigated, if only to disclose the involvement of Albania in the Yugoslav wars.
pre 14 godina
What's more important, it doesn't work.
How come NAto, KFOR and Eulex close their eyes? Are they guilty also?
(gjon cima, 7 August 2009 21:58)
Indeed Mr Marty does not work for NATO (fortunately...) EU, US or God knows for whom but has been appointed by the Council of Europe, you know the one that takes care of human rights, democratic values, rule of law, etc. familiar words isnt't it??
I attached a link so that all the... can have a deeper look as for whom Mr Marty is working....
By the way I don't think that Serbia is part of the COE, unless I missed a chapter... but who knows maybe Mr Jeremic has long fingers there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_europe
pre 14 godina
For the sake of the Albanians themselves there should be an international investigation. Kidnapped Kosovo-Serbs were not the only victims of organ trafficking in Albania in the late 1990s. There are reports dating back to 1997 and 1998 of Albanian children and babies being being kidnapped from hospitals and orphanages in Albania for their organs to be sold on the black market. There were dismembered babies found in garbage dumps in Tirana with their organs cut-out. There were stories of Albanian diplomats being involved in the scheme. I first heard about blackmarket organ trafficking in Albania in 1998. There was a story about it in the London Observer on October 25, 1998 by Helena Smith. It's likely to turn out that the majority of victims were Albanian children. The kidnapped Kosovo-Serbs were more likely targets of oppourtunity. They were probably captured by the KLA and sold to the traffickers in exchange for money or weapons, but I have a feeling that if there is a proper international investigation that the majority of victims will be Albanian children and the perpetrators will be exposed as high-ranking officials in the Kosovo and Albanian governments -- and that's why they don't want an investigation.
pre 14 godina
acquisition of a perfect knowledge of its language, as I can attest from personal experience :(
(Amer, 7 August 2009 19:12)
Amer, you are right in this but then don't you think that B92 should be also more strict in filtering some aggressive nationalistic posters (don't want to name them....) which at the end bring nothing to the discussion and only darken the already disastrous image that you guys are having in EU.
And one more time for Mr Marty's bio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Marty
and look very well at his picture, you might see his face more often that you wish and not in the serbian newspapers!
One more topic, the fact that some NGO wants Carla Del Ponte to be sued, great news, she will finally be able to speak out freely and she certainly have so much to say, so pls do it!
Looking at the K-A/A reactions proves that Dick Marty is already on the right track and now you can be sure that he will stick to your neck for a long time to come until he gets what he wants!
Knocking at the EU door is a very tricky exercise and can be very costy and albania showed today with it's childish behavior that it is light-years away!
pre 14 godina
"Serbia should allow Albanian investigators to investigate what happened to the still missing 2000+ Albanians."
aRTA
We see how well the albanian police is doing in Kosovo. The can't even find a bicycle thief much less anything else. Let the big boys do the investigating. You just relax at your coffee shops and complain about all your miseries by blaming Milosevic and the Serbs.
pre 14 godina
I have still to see Serbia allowing Albanian investigators to investigate 2000 missing Albanians in Serbia. Until that is done no Serbian can have a holier than thou attitude without being hypocritical.
pre 14 godina
can Albania send its own team to investigate in serbia? and can kosova also send its team to investigate in serbia?
Albania asked an investigation to be international and for all the region, not just one country, because there are even more albanians missing?
so, this is it.. go home. Albania is a country, not a puzzle country like serbia.
pre 14 godina
Hey Mike,
There's no proof and cannot be. The prosecutors are welcome with a mandate. But everybody knows it is impossible. Dick Marty is not impartial. It is public he is not impartial. Dick MArty is a mercenary. He reppresents nobody. Not EU, not NAto, not UNO, nobody.
This is all about politics.
It is technically impossible. A nurse knows it is impossible.
How about the three Serbian operatives arrested in Kosovo for asking fake testimony? This is a shocking proof of dirty play.
What's more important, it doesn't work.
How come NAto, KFOR and Eulex close their eyes? Are they guilty also?
pre 14 godina
I haven't bothered to read most articles on here but I imagine that most Albanians are up in arms if this crime is about to be discovered.
All I need to say is this. HRW (whom I assume most people here will consider to be independent) have supposedly seen the evidence and concluded that there is a possible crime to investigate. If the Albanians want better relations then they shouldn't be afraid to let an independent enquiry take place on Albania's soil to prove or disprove the accusation. I must admit, the ferocity of the denial by the Albanians leads me to think they have something to hide. Take your chance and prove that Serbia is mistaken!
pre 14 godina
"it is technically impossible to carry out organ harvesting in such conditions."
gjon cima
You seem to know a lot about organ harvesting. Perhaps the investigators should pay you a visit? Only look at what others have done to you but not what you have done to others.
You say there is no proof! You are wrong. Fortunately there are some brave albanians who want the truth to come out.
"Now, looking back, I know that some of the things that were done to innocent civilians were wrong".
Former KLA Fighter
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
pre 14 godina
From the article:
""Only the Albanian prosecution has a right to carry out an investigation in the territory of Albania," Albanian Minister of Justice Enkeled Alibeaj told Marty, according to an RTV 21 report. "
"Alibeaj also told the Swiss CoE official that "no foreign citizen can conduct procedural investigative actions in the Albanian territory." "
This from the BBC's 'Newsnight' tv program of April 14th: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/7998290.stm
"We are open to any investigation that has to bring once again the truth in evidence. So we are sure that nothing has happened & so when you are on the side of the right, you are not afraid about that." - Albanian MP Qemal Minxhosi.
That was then when UNMIK 'binned' the investigation of these allegations after having the case passed onto them by the ICTY who cited a lack of jurisdiction.
And from the same BBC footage: "there was a reluctance in the UN mission to risk upsetting Kosovos's rulers, many of them ex-KLA commanders & stability seemed more important than justice.
Albanian authorities seem to have changed their tune somewhat now that someone with the pedigree of Dick Marty is leading the investigation.
So much for being unafraid.
pre 14 godina
---"I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply."
And i am the Queen of England here to remind you that Dick Marty does NOT work for EU.
Didn't Vekaric say that Sali Berish himself participated in "organ trade" ? That's how serious your persecutors are taken.
---"Well Albania if you have nothing to hide let the investigations begin. No good having that attitude if you want to be in the EU."
Council of Europe is fake human rights organization with Russia, Serbia, Belarus and other "human rights" champions, it has nothing to do with EU. Dick Marty hates USA, hates Kosova Independence so he should go investigate in Serbia (find Mladic perhaps?) since you love him.
To anyone that "has nothing to hide," can you let me go throw your house to see if you have committed a crime. You have nothing to hide, right?
Serbia should allow Albanian investigators to investigate what happened to the still missing 2000+ Albanians. What are you hiding?
pre 14 godina
'BTW, by your grammar and spelling, just where in the USA do you live?l
(MyTwoCents, 7 August 2009 17:39) '
Theoretically, B92 has a no-insult policy. Even if it didn't, since the majority of the posters at this site are not native-speakers of English, it would be a good idea not to start insulting each other's use of the language. Living in a country, unfortunately, does not automatically result in the acquisition of a perfect knowledge of its language, as I can attest from personal experience :(
pre 14 godina
How about these arguments:
1- it is technically impossible to carry out organ harvesting in such conditions. Every nurse knows this very well. The doctors also.
2- this issue has been already investigated and there's no proof. The journalists told Carla del Ponte they had sources. Where are the sources? Vecaric wants to go to Albania and investigate? Seems a little bit an "effortless superiority", does it?
3- how about coming to Serbia to investigate the Albanian missing people. There are 2000 of them as of today?
pre 14 godina
Kosovo USA, I had no idea Marty was employed by Serbia. Thanks for enlightening us. And you are so right, he must be doing this just to get his picture in Belgrade's newspapers. You have an unbelievable ability to get to the bottom of things. BTW, by your grammar and spelling, just where in the USA do you live?l
pre 14 godina
investigations should have been accpted by the albanian govt,just to prove where these allegedly "harvested" persons have gone!
Let them investigate and discover how serbian criminals have used albania to gain south america!let them discover what arkan was doing in albania with his friends!
it is of the most importance to elucided the presence of the serbian counterspionage in albania at that time!
of course,mr Berisha will never agry to that:he is the one who was welcoming arkan in tirana and who was meeting with serbian officials at the very time albanians were killid in kosovo!
journalist ukaj,who managed to film one of these meeting was killed for this,but he had time to show the video to Azem hajdari,and he toowas killed for that!
Don't forget:the uncle of madame Berisha was too a top member of the udb in yugoslavia and her mother was a resident officer in Albania!
Yes,too bad that Mr Berisha does not want these pages of his recent history to be brought at light!
Then we would have to investigate about milosheviq staff investissments in albania today,and that's too risky for all of them!
Dick Marty has a good knowledgje of these criminal trafficking ,that's why he is not welcomed neither by serbia nor by albanian who has created this mess only to be free to do their "affairs"as they want!Now Mr berisha and family have and excellent collaboration with Fazliç and the serbian clan throught cyprus and or banja luka!!even Shkelzen Berisha was seen in serbian part of bosnia,what for and why? May be with thes investigation for organs,mr Marty would have discover a much more dirty bizness among some serbians and some albanians!
pre 14 godina
This just proves that Albania is SCARED OF INVESTIGATION, and will do everything to forbid it.
Bad news for them, (on the side a disastrous image that this sends to the world) is that some crimes will legally never become too old, and this is definitely one of them.
But then a whole country in accord to the medieval law still in force i Albania is a hostage of Ramush and Berisha.
It is because they don't want this investigation to happen.
pre 14 godina
Hold your horses, Serbian camp. You are too quick to point your fingers.
1.Albania for example would like whether or not those Serbia arrested in Presheva a couple of months ago are being falsely accused. We have a guy from the US who can do the investigation on our behalf. I don't see how Serbia is going to allow that.
2. This is not a Hague investigation. Let's be really clear about that. Hague already investigated this case and came to the conclusion that there was no truth to it. Let's be clear about that too.
3. Hague does not apply to Albania as it was not a part of Jugoslavia and it wasn't one of the sides that were at war each other. It' simple just like that.
4.This is a guys Serbia has convinced to do the work for them. Well as an independent state Albania has every right to put a stop to investigations that are telegraphed by Belgrade.
5. International investigations start with asking permission from the country you are trying to investigate in. So in this case we do not have an international organization known for investigating issues; and Albania was brought to the knowledge of this stuff only through Serbian governmental mouthpieces like B92. Then one day a dude comes and tells you he wants to investigate in your own country. Well this is an independent country; there are rules and there are protocols. As our minister pointed out this dude does not fall under any of those protocols.
6. If there is going to be an investigation it should start very differently. It has to be done from a well respected international institution, which deals with investigations, with the collaboration of Albanian prosecutors. After all we are speaking of an independent country that hasn't been or participated in a war since WWII. Permission should be asked to Albania by this organization. Serbia or its institutions should have nothing to do with this investigation since from what we see, all they do is turn myths into propaganda that the Serbs here on B92 are too happy to buy. If that's not possible Serb institutions will have to sign a disclosure contract in which it is stated that any mention or use of the investigation by the Serb officials, political class or the Serb church for propaganda and political gains prior to the investigation being closed will immediately result to the investigation ending. Albania since its allowing such investigation reserves the right to have it prosecutors alongside the international prosecutors wherever the issue brings them; Serbia or Kosova. I believe the Serbs should not have an issue with this since they want this investigation and not the other way around.
In case this investigation like the Hague one proves that these rumours hold no truths, Serbia has to pay for the damages that incurred the state of Albania. Damages such as tarnishing the country's image by Serbian politician such as this Lajlic guy, the Serb prosecutor and Tadic and Jeremic at the UN. Pay for the cost of the investigation. Pay the Albanian state because its finest prosecutors were being held investigating rumours when they could be doing something else. In the contract with the Serbian institutions there should also be a clause in which it is stated that in case these investigations prove that there is no truth to the rumours Serbia as a state should be punished by not receiving EU grants for at least 5 years; and EU accession should be delayed for at least 10 years. Visa liberation is to be abolished immediately after the investigation if it is proven that nothing Serbia alleges is true.
I believe that Serbia or any Serb out there should not be against such punishments and Serbia being made to monetarily pay since they are so absolutely sure these things happened. And of course if it is proven the opposite Serbia will have to pay a high price for taking the time, efforts, money, and slowing the progress of the region based on a lie; if the investigation proves that it is a lie. Then we can have an investigation. Things were investigated before and it was proven they were lies. Yet still we have Serbia behave like a spoiled child. If things are investigated again and again it is proved that these are indeed lies; then this spoiled child has to be punished severely.
I hope we do have an investigation; a fair one, not one telegraphed from Belgrade, so that we that these conspiracy theories are put to an end once and forever.
pre 14 godina
With Albania's refusal to cooperate with foreign investigators, allegations now become cemented as admittance by these naive politicians.
pre 14 godina
In a way, this issue bears some resemblance to Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide: they want the rest of the world to believe that nothing happened. The counter evidence this is based on is nothing empirical or factual; just "well it's a crime to insult the Turkish people" and "if anything did happen, they had it coming".
The point here is not to compound refusal to cooperate with stubborn indignance. If these allegations are indeed no more than ghost hunts and kafana rumors, open the books, let the investigators in, and this can be cleared up in a week. But to turn around and sue those accusors and now suddenly play the "no one can interfere on my property" card - even though most Albanians have been very vocal about international intervention in the case of Presevo - only furthers the conviction of those who think such a crime was in fact committed.
pre 14 godina
Well Albania if you have nothing to hide let the investigations begin. No good having that attitude if you want to be in the EU.
Or to put it another way Albania do as your told.
pre 14 godina
Well I suppose albania's rejection makes sense. It is not as if they will be joining the EU in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. years or so.
Can't argue with those who wish to remain backward and settle disputes on medieval canon law. Just no place for such countries in the EU.
So far away for the EU, so little future.
pre 14 godina
Then again, I think that Albanian authorites should allow him to investigate it but along with Albanian prosecutor at his side at all time including joint press conferences, so as not to allow him any mokey business for benefit of his employer(Serbia).
(Kosova-USA, 7 August 2009 15:03)
Either you do not really know who Dick Marty is, or you, as always wants to close your eyes and go on with pooring non sense nationalistic comments.
So, just to try to improve your knowledge, if ever that is possible, I attach a link of Mr Marty bio....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Marty
I know that his visit is scaring a lot of people and most propably they are right to be scared!
Just recall, CIA and MI5 together denied for years that secret prisons ever existed...until Dick Marty came, yes he is even more stubborn that you can think off and none of the country in questions managed to stop him investigating including GB and USA, so Albania will not be an exception either if they ever want to eventually have a slight chance to approach EU in the decades to come!
Last but not least if you are all so convinced that nothing ever happend, then let the officialy appointed COE representent do his job and close this file for ever. At the end not only serbs are in questions but romas and even albanians that didn't want to blindy follow a bunch of criminals!
Good luck Mr Marty
pre 14 godina
Here we go, hardly surprising but that was certainly the wrong answer to give to stubborn Dick Marty, it will only reinforced this will to uncover the truth.
It will be very interesting to see how the European Council will now react!
With this kind of attitude you are just digging further your pale image!
(The Swiss, 7 August 2009 13:50)
You are right that Dick Marty is very stubborn, and at the same time he made coments with his own mouth that he does not beleive there is any truth to this story, BUT.....
But, what Marty? are you trying to have your pictures on front pages on Serbian papers.
Then again, I think that Albanian authoriites should have allowed him to investigate it but along with Albanian prosecutor at his side at all time including joint press conferences, so as not to allow him any mokey business for benefit of his employer(Serbia).
pre 14 godina
"Half a truth is often a great lie"
As someone already mentioned here, If, just in case charges are raised against Serbian army or paramilitary, can Serbia prove that it had not done the same with the missing Albanians?
pre 14 godina
1. The burden of providing proofs is on the accusatory side not on the accused one. Serbia is accusing, Serbia should provide IRON proofs and not pres-conferences.
2. The international investigation. The HAGUE court was established by UN to investigate the war crimes IN Yugoslavia. For those that are disgusted should know that Albania was never part of Yugo hence the Hague has not competences on investigating in Albania, while it HAS for Serbia and any other Yugo country Kosova including as they did with haradinaj case. Nevertheless, Albania DID allow Hague to investigate these accusations and Hague sent a team of about 20 forensic investigators who found NOTHING- consequently Hague closed the case.
Dick Martin in Albania? No state will allow that some foreign citizen goes to her country and investigates as she/he wishes. Albania, as any other state, is not open book that anyone can go and do whatever he/she wants.
One can go and accuse Tadic as theft, but this doesn’t mean that Tadic must open his house to anyone to prove that he is innocent.
Personally I know, and hundred of thousands as me, that in the archives of the Serbian intelligence there are proofs of the crimes committed in Kosova, Bosnia and Croatia. Can I access them?? IS Serbia is innocent it should allow me to access the archives of UDBA. It doesn’t work like that…
However, "An investigation can be launched only by the Albanian prosecution based on requests coming from other countries. In that case the prosecution undertakes all actions to clear up the issue."
pre 14 godina
EU sends this guy just to make some people happy and to make it look as if Tadic has done something. They have done this eventhough the result was known. UN has conducted an investigation upon request from Hague.
pre 14 godina
Interesting how the Serbian prosecution got on top of this issue right after Carla's book, which by the way was based on reports of hearsay. Evidence on hearsay won't get you anywhere.
Thankfully Albania has a principled stand on this issue and will not be played by Serbia's propaganda machine.
pre 14 godina
Serbia is co-operating with the Hague regarding war crimes. If Albania is innocent why not open all doors and proof it?
pre 14 godina
Here we go, hardly surprising but that was certainly the wrong answer to give to stubborn Dick Marty, it will only reinforced this will to uncover the truth.
It will be very interesting to see how the European Council will now react!
With this kind of attitude you are just digging further your pale image!
pre 14 godina
I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply.
pre 14 godina
let's stay on the subject aRTA. We are discussing thei investatigation of the "yellow house" claims of organ harvesting for profit. If Albania has nothing to hide then allow an independent inquiry. If someone threatening a law suit then they have something to hide. In 1999 Carla Del Ponte was a champion of Kosovo's cause now since she is not in the same party she has become an out cast. See EU and NATO how if all is good then we are good. If Albania and Kosovo is doing all of this squawking then there is something to hide.
pre 14 godina
Wow, they are in blind panick.
Now they want to sue Carla but refuse to have the matter investigated so that they have proof of her lies.
In other words, it's all lies but I won't let you investigate even if it is to prove that it's all lies. How dumb is that?
This only points to their guilt. I guess, even assumption of guilt is better than proof of guilt.
pre 14 godina
Do you have something to hide, gentlemen?
pre 14 godina
Yes, and we all know why you are refusing! Your conscience is guilty!
But then again I cannot say I am surprised by their answer. In a country where anarchi rules that was the only thing they could utter.
Shame on them and their supporters.
pre 14 godina
How much space do alledged KLA Crime find in serb publicity and how much those commited by Serbian Police, Army and Para-groups? Just stick to Del Ponte reposrts, or HRW or AI or UN or what ever. Serb policy is not interested in the fate of those missed people nor in that of Serbs living in Kosovo. They are just a chance to get some profile for some careerists
pre 14 godina
Accusations are made against 48 Serbs and they are all, except 2, found and extradited to the Hague for trial by a court outside Serbia. Accusations are made against a terrorist organisation about alleged crimes against Serbs and suddenly there appears this unwritten law that nobody outside of Albania can investigate alleged war crimes involving Albanians except Albania itself? With that logic, can I assume that once Mladic is apprehended he will be investigated and tried in Belgrade? Surely that is the case as that is the only way that a fair and balanced approach can be followed. In fact, now that I think about it, if Serbia says they refuse to believe anything anyone is accusing Mladic of then he should be allowed to be a free man with no investigation permitted. I admire the Albanian sense of fair play.
pre 14 godina
Oh Yes?? Serbia MUST cooperate with Hague Tribunal, but Albania can refuse any international investigations??
So - if Netherland is not hypocrite country - they must stopped any EU integration speech with Albania.
pre 14 godina
The "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" has asked the Kosovo Albanian government to file a lawsuit against Del Ponte because they know she "launched lies"?
Carla Del Ponte was as anti Serbian as they came and if this "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" has evidence to justify its position then I suggest they come forward and reveal it.
Moreso, how can the "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" asked that an investigation into human organ traffiking be dropped? Isn't their interest the protection of human rights?
Looks like some people have something to hide. The sooner we get to the bottom of it the better. Albania's EU aspirations are on the line here.
pre 14 godina
"Oh Yes?? Serbia MUST cooperate with Hague Tribunal, but Albania can refuse any international investigations?? "
Hague was setup by UN, Dick Marty doesn't have a UN mandate. Hague looked at the allegations 10 years ago.
P.S. You cannot prove a negative, so Albania wins nothing. Dick would have said "Maybe it happened, Maybe it didn't."
Can Serbia prove they didn't do what they are accusing the Albanians of doing?
pre 14 godina
"because it is about untrue pretensions for which there is no proof".
No proof! What about those former fighters who claim otherwise.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
Besides if Albania has nothing to hide then let them do the investigation.
The truth is that Albania and albanians are guilty as hell. Time is not on the side of the albanians. The truth will come out, sooner or later. Albanian warcrimes have been hidden for too long.
pre 14 godina
"I refuse to believe that it is true, but I would like that issue investigated".
And you are...?? I would like a lot of things too, but I am not authorized. How about investigating cannibalism in, say, Norway. I have no evidence, but I heard a rumor. It may not be true but...
There is a court for crimes committed in the 90's: HAGUE and it's still active. If anyone has evidence they can take it there. Not an "investigator" who writes a report with no rebuttal. (Marty is still upset over Kosova declaring independence FYI; I posted a link yesterday)
Fishing expeditions for propaganda purposes are not allowed, Albania is a sovereign country and I am pleasantly surprised they finally grew a pair. The only evidence we have seen is a picture of KLA fighters passing the border to Albania (duh!,) a Google Earth one and some pictures of syringes that wounded KLA fighters used, and a paragraph used to sell a book.
I expect some will say "what are you hiding" etc but secretly you wish Tadic stood up to all those requests from others and upheld the sovereignty. 300 Serbs are missing, but 2000 Albanians are STILL missing as well. Why isn't Dick investigating that too?
pre 14 godina
It seems that Sali Berisha counts on American support. He does not want to be discovered what he and his friends from Kosovo did. It seems that nothing will happen as Albania is now Nato member and they have American support. I just feel sorry for the victims of this horrific crimes.
pre 14 godina
The "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" has asked the Kosovo Albanian government to file a lawsuit against Del Ponte because they know she "launched lies"?
Carla Del Ponte was as anti Serbian as they came and if this "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" has evidence to justify its position then I suggest they come forward and reveal it.
Moreso, how can the "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" asked that an investigation into human organ traffiking be dropped? Isn't their interest the protection of human rights?
Looks like some people have something to hide. The sooner we get to the bottom of it the better. Albania's EU aspirations are on the line here.
pre 14 godina
"because it is about untrue pretensions for which there is no proof".
No proof! What about those former fighters who claim otherwise.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
Besides if Albania has nothing to hide then let them do the investigation.
The truth is that Albania and albanians are guilty as hell. Time is not on the side of the albanians. The truth will come out, sooner or later. Albanian warcrimes have been hidden for too long.
pre 14 godina
It seems that Sali Berisha counts on American support. He does not want to be discovered what he and his friends from Kosovo did. It seems that nothing will happen as Albania is now Nato member and they have American support. I just feel sorry for the victims of this horrific crimes.
pre 14 godina
Wow, they are in blind panick.
Now they want to sue Carla but refuse to have the matter investigated so that they have proof of her lies.
In other words, it's all lies but I won't let you investigate even if it is to prove that it's all lies. How dumb is that?
This only points to their guilt. I guess, even assumption of guilt is better than proof of guilt.
pre 14 godina
Oh Yes?? Serbia MUST cooperate with Hague Tribunal, but Albania can refuse any international investigations??
So - if Netherland is not hypocrite country - they must stopped any EU integration speech with Albania.
pre 14 godina
Do you have something to hide, gentlemen?
pre 14 godina
Yes, and we all know why you are refusing! Your conscience is guilty!
But then again I cannot say I am surprised by their answer. In a country where anarchi rules that was the only thing they could utter.
Shame on them and their supporters.
pre 14 godina
I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply.
pre 14 godina
"I refuse to believe that it is true, but I would like that issue investigated".
And you are...?? I would like a lot of things too, but I am not authorized. How about investigating cannibalism in, say, Norway. I have no evidence, but I heard a rumor. It may not be true but...
There is a court for crimes committed in the 90's: HAGUE and it's still active. If anyone has evidence they can take it there. Not an "investigator" who writes a report with no rebuttal. (Marty is still upset over Kosova declaring independence FYI; I posted a link yesterday)
Fishing expeditions for propaganda purposes are not allowed, Albania is a sovereign country and I am pleasantly surprised they finally grew a pair. The only evidence we have seen is a picture of KLA fighters passing the border to Albania (duh!,) a Google Earth one and some pictures of syringes that wounded KLA fighters used, and a paragraph used to sell a book.
I expect some will say "what are you hiding" etc but secretly you wish Tadic stood up to all those requests from others and upheld the sovereignty. 300 Serbs are missing, but 2000 Albanians are STILL missing as well. Why isn't Dick investigating that too?
pre 14 godina
Here we go, hardly surprising but that was certainly the wrong answer to give to stubborn Dick Marty, it will only reinforced this will to uncover the truth.
It will be very interesting to see how the European Council will now react!
With this kind of attitude you are just digging further your pale image!
pre 14 godina
Accusations are made against 48 Serbs and they are all, except 2, found and extradited to the Hague for trial by a court outside Serbia. Accusations are made against a terrorist organisation about alleged crimes against Serbs and suddenly there appears this unwritten law that nobody outside of Albania can investigate alleged war crimes involving Albanians except Albania itself? With that logic, can I assume that once Mladic is apprehended he will be investigated and tried in Belgrade? Surely that is the case as that is the only way that a fair and balanced approach can be followed. In fact, now that I think about it, if Serbia says they refuse to believe anything anyone is accusing Mladic of then he should be allowed to be a free man with no investigation permitted. I admire the Albanian sense of fair play.
pre 14 godina
1. The burden of providing proofs is on the accusatory side not on the accused one. Serbia is accusing, Serbia should provide IRON proofs and not pres-conferences.
2. The international investigation. The HAGUE court was established by UN to investigate the war crimes IN Yugoslavia. For those that are disgusted should know that Albania was never part of Yugo hence the Hague has not competences on investigating in Albania, while it HAS for Serbia and any other Yugo country Kosova including as they did with haradinaj case. Nevertheless, Albania DID allow Hague to investigate these accusations and Hague sent a team of about 20 forensic investigators who found NOTHING- consequently Hague closed the case.
Dick Martin in Albania? No state will allow that some foreign citizen goes to her country and investigates as she/he wishes. Albania, as any other state, is not open book that anyone can go and do whatever he/she wants.
One can go and accuse Tadic as theft, but this doesn’t mean that Tadic must open his house to anyone to prove that he is innocent.
Personally I know, and hundred of thousands as me, that in the archives of the Serbian intelligence there are proofs of the crimes committed in Kosova, Bosnia and Croatia. Can I access them?? IS Serbia is innocent it should allow me to access the archives of UDBA. It doesn’t work like that…
However, "An investigation can be launched only by the Albanian prosecution based on requests coming from other countries. In that case the prosecution undertakes all actions to clear up the issue."
pre 14 godina
Serbia is co-operating with the Hague regarding war crimes. If Albania is innocent why not open all doors and proof it?
pre 14 godina
let's stay on the subject aRTA. We are discussing thei investatigation of the "yellow house" claims of organ harvesting for profit. If Albania has nothing to hide then allow an independent inquiry. If someone threatening a law suit then they have something to hide. In 1999 Carla Del Ponte was a champion of Kosovo's cause now since she is not in the same party she has become an out cast. See EU and NATO how if all is good then we are good. If Albania and Kosovo is doing all of this squawking then there is something to hide.
pre 14 godina
Well I suppose albania's rejection makes sense. It is not as if they will be joining the EU in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. years or so.
Can't argue with those who wish to remain backward and settle disputes on medieval canon law. Just no place for such countries in the EU.
So far away for the EU, so little future.
pre 14 godina
With Albania's refusal to cooperate with foreign investigators, allegations now become cemented as admittance by these naive politicians.
pre 14 godina
Well Albania if you have nothing to hide let the investigations begin. No good having that attitude if you want to be in the EU.
Or to put it another way Albania do as your told.
pre 14 godina
This just proves that Albania is SCARED OF INVESTIGATION, and will do everything to forbid it.
Bad news for them, (on the side a disastrous image that this sends to the world) is that some crimes will legally never become too old, and this is definitely one of them.
But then a whole country in accord to the medieval law still in force i Albania is a hostage of Ramush and Berisha.
It is because they don't want this investigation to happen.
pre 14 godina
Kosovo USA, I had no idea Marty was employed by Serbia. Thanks for enlightening us. And you are so right, he must be doing this just to get his picture in Belgrade's newspapers. You have an unbelievable ability to get to the bottom of things. BTW, by your grammar and spelling, just where in the USA do you live?l
pre 14 godina
For the sake of the Albanians themselves there should be an international investigation. Kidnapped Kosovo-Serbs were not the only victims of organ trafficking in Albania in the late 1990s. There are reports dating back to 1997 and 1998 of Albanian children and babies being being kidnapped from hospitals and orphanages in Albania for their organs to be sold on the black market. There were dismembered babies found in garbage dumps in Tirana with their organs cut-out. There were stories of Albanian diplomats being involved in the scheme. I first heard about blackmarket organ trafficking in Albania in 1998. There was a story about it in the London Observer on October 25, 1998 by Helena Smith. It's likely to turn out that the majority of victims were Albanian children. The kidnapped Kosovo-Serbs were more likely targets of oppourtunity. They were probably captured by the KLA and sold to the traffickers in exchange for money or weapons, but I have a feeling that if there is a proper international investigation that the majority of victims will be Albanian children and the perpetrators will be exposed as high-ranking officials in the Kosovo and Albanian governments -- and that's why they don't want an investigation.
pre 14 godina
Interesting how the Serbian prosecution got on top of this issue right after Carla's book, which by the way was based on reports of hearsay. Evidence on hearsay won't get you anywhere.
Thankfully Albania has a principled stand on this issue and will not be played by Serbia's propaganda machine.
pre 14 godina
Here we go, hardly surprising but that was certainly the wrong answer to give to stubborn Dick Marty, it will only reinforced this will to uncover the truth.
It will be very interesting to see how the European Council will now react!
With this kind of attitude you are just digging further your pale image!
(The Swiss, 7 August 2009 13:50)
You are right that Dick Marty is very stubborn, and at the same time he made coments with his own mouth that he does not beleive there is any truth to this story, BUT.....
But, what Marty? are you trying to have your pictures on front pages on Serbian papers.
Then again, I think that Albanian authoriites should have allowed him to investigate it but along with Albanian prosecutor at his side at all time including joint press conferences, so as not to allow him any mokey business for benefit of his employer(Serbia).
pre 14 godina
Then again, I think that Albanian authorites should allow him to investigate it but along with Albanian prosecutor at his side at all time including joint press conferences, so as not to allow him any mokey business for benefit of his employer(Serbia).
(Kosova-USA, 7 August 2009 15:03)
Either you do not really know who Dick Marty is, or you, as always wants to close your eyes and go on with pooring non sense nationalistic comments.
So, just to try to improve your knowledge, if ever that is possible, I attach a link of Mr Marty bio....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Marty
I know that his visit is scaring a lot of people and most propably they are right to be scared!
Just recall, CIA and MI5 together denied for years that secret prisons ever existed...until Dick Marty came, yes he is even more stubborn that you can think off and none of the country in questions managed to stop him investigating including GB and USA, so Albania will not be an exception either if they ever want to eventually have a slight chance to approach EU in the decades to come!
Last but not least if you are all so convinced that nothing ever happend, then let the officialy appointed COE representent do his job and close this file for ever. At the end not only serbs are in questions but romas and even albanians that didn't want to blindy follow a bunch of criminals!
Good luck Mr Marty
pre 14 godina
"Oh Yes?? Serbia MUST cooperate with Hague Tribunal, but Albania can refuse any international investigations?? "
Hague was setup by UN, Dick Marty doesn't have a UN mandate. Hague looked at the allegations 10 years ago.
P.S. You cannot prove a negative, so Albania wins nothing. Dick would have said "Maybe it happened, Maybe it didn't."
Can Serbia prove they didn't do what they are accusing the Albanians of doing?
pre 14 godina
"Half a truth is often a great lie"
As someone already mentioned here, If, just in case charges are raised against Serbian army or paramilitary, can Serbia prove that it had not done the same with the missing Albanians?
pre 14 godina
In a way, this issue bears some resemblance to Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide: they want the rest of the world to believe that nothing happened. The counter evidence this is based on is nothing empirical or factual; just "well it's a crime to insult the Turkish people" and "if anything did happen, they had it coming".
The point here is not to compound refusal to cooperate with stubborn indignance. If these allegations are indeed no more than ghost hunts and kafana rumors, open the books, let the investigators in, and this can be cleared up in a week. But to turn around and sue those accusors and now suddenly play the "no one can interfere on my property" card - even though most Albanians have been very vocal about international intervention in the case of Presevo - only furthers the conviction of those who think such a crime was in fact committed.
pre 14 godina
How much space do alledged KLA Crime find in serb publicity and how much those commited by Serbian Police, Army and Para-groups? Just stick to Del Ponte reposrts, or HRW or AI or UN or what ever. Serb policy is not interested in the fate of those missed people nor in that of Serbs living in Kosovo. They are just a chance to get some profile for some careerists
pre 14 godina
From the article:
""Only the Albanian prosecution has a right to carry out an investigation in the territory of Albania," Albanian Minister of Justice Enkeled Alibeaj told Marty, according to an RTV 21 report. "
"Alibeaj also told the Swiss CoE official that "no foreign citizen can conduct procedural investigative actions in the Albanian territory." "
This from the BBC's 'Newsnight' tv program of April 14th: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/7998290.stm
"We are open to any investigation that has to bring once again the truth in evidence. So we are sure that nothing has happened & so when you are on the side of the right, you are not afraid about that." - Albanian MP Qemal Minxhosi.
That was then when UNMIK 'binned' the investigation of these allegations after having the case passed onto them by the ICTY who cited a lack of jurisdiction.
And from the same BBC footage: "there was a reluctance in the UN mission to risk upsetting Kosovos's rulers, many of them ex-KLA commanders & stability seemed more important than justice.
Albanian authorities seem to have changed their tune somewhat now that someone with the pedigree of Dick Marty is leading the investigation.
So much for being unafraid.
pre 14 godina
"Serbia should allow Albanian investigators to investigate what happened to the still missing 2000+ Albanians."
aRTA
We see how well the albanian police is doing in Kosovo. The can't even find a bicycle thief much less anything else. Let the big boys do the investigating. You just relax at your coffee shops and complain about all your miseries by blaming Milosevic and the Serbs.
pre 14 godina
---"I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply."
"And i am the Queen of England here to remind you that Dick Marty does NOT work for EU."
@Arta,
Your arrogance knows know bounds. I AM a EULEX employee, I AM American, and I AM disgusted by Albania's lack of cooperation. Despite what you may like to think, not everyone in EULEX is biased towards Albanians. Some of us are for unbiased policing. Believe what you like, but do not doubt for one second that there are not many, many others like me working here in Pristina. Dick Marty has nothing to do with this cover up by Albania. If the allegations are untrue, let the investigation say so. Delaying and obstructing justice is wrong. Period.
pre 14 godina
I haven't bothered to read most articles on here but I imagine that most Albanians are up in arms if this crime is about to be discovered.
All I need to say is this. HRW (whom I assume most people here will consider to be independent) have supposedly seen the evidence and concluded that there is a possible crime to investigate. If the Albanians want better relations then they shouldn't be afraid to let an independent enquiry take place on Albania's soil to prove or disprove the accusation. I must admit, the ferocity of the denial by the Albanians leads me to think they have something to hide. Take your chance and prove that Serbia is mistaken!
pre 14 godina
"it is technically impossible to carry out organ harvesting in such conditions."
gjon cima
You seem to know a lot about organ harvesting. Perhaps the investigators should pay you a visit? Only look at what others have done to you but not what you have done to others.
You say there is no proof! You are wrong. Fortunately there are some brave albanians who want the truth to come out.
"Now, looking back, I know that some of the things that were done to innocent civilians were wrong".
Former KLA Fighter
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
pre 14 godina
Let’s examine some of the claims being made here by the Albanian side.
“Hague does not apply to Albania as it was not a part of Jugoslavia and it wasn't one of the sides that were at war each other.”
“we are speaking of an independent country that hasn't been or participated in a war since WWII.”
These crimes started in Kosovo, part of Yugoslavia, and Albania participated in training and arming the KLA and supplied bases from which to carry out the attacks. Albania was absolutely involved in the war and their involvement MUST be investigated and determined. Serbia absolutely has a right to investigate and demand the extradition of any Albanians involved since the kidnappings occurred on their soil.
“Serbian governmental mouthpieces like B92… all they do is turn myths into propaganda that the Serbs here on B92 are too happy to buy.”
You don’t know much about the history of B92 then, Milosevic HATED them, they are not a nationalist mouth piece, they are the voice of the opposition and practically the only media in Serbia to report on Milosevic’s crimes while he was in power.
“how about coming to Serbia to investigate the Albanian missing people. There are 2000 of them as of today?”
“I have still to see Serbia allowing Albanian investigators to investigate 2000 missing Albanians in Serbia.”
“300 Serbs are missing, but 2000 Albanians are STILL missing as well.”
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=04&dd=27&nav_category=102&nav_id=40930
Yes, 2,000 are missing, but only 1,300 are Albanians. That means 35% of the missing are non-Albanians, FAR above what their percentage of the population are. The former KLA leaders have a lot yet to answer for in Kosovo. I can’t believe I’m seeing these sorts of distortions of the truth see going on when its clearly documented by multiple sources.
“In case this investigation like the Hague one proves that these rumours hold no truths, Serbia has to pay for the damages that incurred the state of Albania. Damages such as tarnishing the country's image”
Oh I agree. I also think lies and rumors like 800,000 Albanians killed or missing in Kosovo should also be punished, after all Serbia was majorly bombed for months because of it (including cluster bombs), and the reality turned out to be only 2,000 were killed in an ugly insurgency before the bombing took place, an extremely low number for the type of guerilla war that was going on. In Iraq for example, hundreds of thousands, some say a million, Iraqi’s were killed since the US invasion. 2,000 versus 1 million? What should be done to those countries and media outlets that support and created these lies against the Serbian nation? Slander at its worst.
I still remained unconvinced the organ thefts took place, they are just too fantastic to take at face value. At first, I thought it was complete nonsense, but now I strongly feel they should be investigated, if only to disclose the involvement of Albania in the Yugoslav wars.
pre 14 godina
EU sends this guy just to make some people happy and to make it look as if Tadic has done something. They have done this eventhough the result was known. UN has conducted an investigation upon request from Hague.
pre 14 godina
Hold your horses, Serbian camp. You are too quick to point your fingers.
1.Albania for example would like whether or not those Serbia arrested in Presheva a couple of months ago are being falsely accused. We have a guy from the US who can do the investigation on our behalf. I don't see how Serbia is going to allow that.
2. This is not a Hague investigation. Let's be really clear about that. Hague already investigated this case and came to the conclusion that there was no truth to it. Let's be clear about that too.
3. Hague does not apply to Albania as it was not a part of Jugoslavia and it wasn't one of the sides that were at war each other. It' simple just like that.
4.This is a guys Serbia has convinced to do the work for them. Well as an independent state Albania has every right to put a stop to investigations that are telegraphed by Belgrade.
5. International investigations start with asking permission from the country you are trying to investigate in. So in this case we do not have an international organization known for investigating issues; and Albania was brought to the knowledge of this stuff only through Serbian governmental mouthpieces like B92. Then one day a dude comes and tells you he wants to investigate in your own country. Well this is an independent country; there are rules and there are protocols. As our minister pointed out this dude does not fall under any of those protocols.
6. If there is going to be an investigation it should start very differently. It has to be done from a well respected international institution, which deals with investigations, with the collaboration of Albanian prosecutors. After all we are speaking of an independent country that hasn't been or participated in a war since WWII. Permission should be asked to Albania by this organization. Serbia or its institutions should have nothing to do with this investigation since from what we see, all they do is turn myths into propaganda that the Serbs here on B92 are too happy to buy. If that's not possible Serb institutions will have to sign a disclosure contract in which it is stated that any mention or use of the investigation by the Serb officials, political class or the Serb church for propaganda and political gains prior to the investigation being closed will immediately result to the investigation ending. Albania since its allowing such investigation reserves the right to have it prosecutors alongside the international prosecutors wherever the issue brings them; Serbia or Kosova. I believe the Serbs should not have an issue with this since they want this investigation and not the other way around.
In case this investigation like the Hague one proves that these rumours hold no truths, Serbia has to pay for the damages that incurred the state of Albania. Damages such as tarnishing the country's image by Serbian politician such as this Lajlic guy, the Serb prosecutor and Tadic and Jeremic at the UN. Pay for the cost of the investigation. Pay the Albanian state because its finest prosecutors were being held investigating rumours when they could be doing something else. In the contract with the Serbian institutions there should also be a clause in which it is stated that in case these investigations prove that there is no truth to the rumours Serbia as a state should be punished by not receiving EU grants for at least 5 years; and EU accession should be delayed for at least 10 years. Visa liberation is to be abolished immediately after the investigation if it is proven that nothing Serbia alleges is true.
I believe that Serbia or any Serb out there should not be against such punishments and Serbia being made to monetarily pay since they are so absolutely sure these things happened. And of course if it is proven the opposite Serbia will have to pay a high price for taking the time, efforts, money, and slowing the progress of the region based on a lie; if the investigation proves that it is a lie. Then we can have an investigation. Things were investigated before and it was proven they were lies. Yet still we have Serbia behave like a spoiled child. If things are investigated again and again it is proved that these are indeed lies; then this spoiled child has to be punished severely.
I hope we do have an investigation; a fair one, not one telegraphed from Belgrade, so that we that these conspiracy theories are put to an end once and forever.
pre 14 godina
acquisition of a perfect knowledge of its language, as I can attest from personal experience :(
(Amer, 7 August 2009 19:12)
Amer, you are right in this but then don't you think that B92 should be also more strict in filtering some aggressive nationalistic posters (don't want to name them....) which at the end bring nothing to the discussion and only darken the already disastrous image that you guys are having in EU.
And one more time for Mr Marty's bio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Marty
and look very well at his picture, you might see his face more often that you wish and not in the serbian newspapers!
One more topic, the fact that some NGO wants Carla Del Ponte to be sued, great news, she will finally be able to speak out freely and she certainly have so much to say, so pls do it!
Looking at the K-A/A reactions proves that Dick Marty is already on the right track and now you can be sure that he will stick to your neck for a long time to come until he gets what he wants!
Knocking at the EU door is a very tricky exercise and can be very costy and albania showed today with it's childish behavior that it is light-years away!
pre 14 godina
One of the reasons one would not allow an investigation, is because he knows he has something to hide.
pre 14 godina
How about these arguments:
1- it is technically impossible to carry out organ harvesting in such conditions. Every nurse knows this very well. The doctors also.
2- this issue has been already investigated and there's no proof. The journalists told Carla del Ponte they had sources. Where are the sources? Vecaric wants to go to Albania and investigate? Seems a little bit an "effortless superiority", does it?
3- how about coming to Serbia to investigate the Albanian missing people. There are 2000 of them as of today?
pre 14 godina
I have still to see Serbia allowing Albanian investigators to investigate 2000 missing Albanians in Serbia. Until that is done no Serbian can have a holier than thou attitude without being hypocritical.
pre 14 godina
---"I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply."
And i am the Queen of England here to remind you that Dick Marty does NOT work for EU.
Didn't Vekaric say that Sali Berish himself participated in "organ trade" ? That's how serious your persecutors are taken.
---"Well Albania if you have nothing to hide let the investigations begin. No good having that attitude if you want to be in the EU."
Council of Europe is fake human rights organization with Russia, Serbia, Belarus and other "human rights" champions, it has nothing to do with EU. Dick Marty hates USA, hates Kosova Independence so he should go investigate in Serbia (find Mladic perhaps?) since you love him.
To anyone that "has nothing to hide," can you let me go throw your house to see if you have committed a crime. You have nothing to hide, right?
Serbia should allow Albanian investigators to investigate what happened to the still missing 2000+ Albanians. What are you hiding?
pre 14 godina
'BTW, by your grammar and spelling, just where in the USA do you live?l
(MyTwoCents, 7 August 2009 17:39) '
Theoretically, B92 has a no-insult policy. Even if it didn't, since the majority of the posters at this site are not native-speakers of English, it would be a good idea not to start insulting each other's use of the language. Living in a country, unfortunately, does not automatically result in the acquisition of a perfect knowledge of its language, as I can attest from personal experience :(
pre 14 godina
What's more important, it doesn't work.
How come NAto, KFOR and Eulex close their eyes? Are they guilty also?
(gjon cima, 7 August 2009 21:58)
Indeed Mr Marty does not work for NATO (fortunately...) EU, US or God knows for whom but has been appointed by the Council of Europe, you know the one that takes care of human rights, democratic values, rule of law, etc. familiar words isnt't it??
I attached a link so that all the... can have a deeper look as for whom Mr Marty is working....
By the way I don't think that Serbia is part of the COE, unless I missed a chapter... but who knows maybe Mr Jeremic has long fingers there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_europe
pre 14 godina
Well done Albania!Albanians should be proud of your governments decision for not letting them investigate something that the UN,OSCE etc.didn't find any evidence.Case CLOSED!Serbia has enough cases to investigate in it's own soil!Serbia is full of mass graves with transported K-Albanian bodies,what make someone to believe that the Serbs were one who took organs from K-Albanians, since they were transported a live in Serbia...then put in a river or buried in mass graves?So again,Albanian Gov.did great job denying Serb (not the international)Investigators to go in Albanian soil.Mr.Dick(head) Marty is just an ally of C. Del Ponte & S.Milosevic.Some ppl say that the EU should pressure Albania to allow this investigation! The EU can't do anything about it.Albania survived without EU for many Milleniums...they will survive the future without the EU too!
pre 14 godina
Your arrogance knows know bounds. I AM a EULEX employee, I AM American, and I AM disgusted by Albania's lack of cooperation. Despite what you may like to think, not everyone in EULEX is biased towards Albanians. Some of us are for unbiased policing. Believe what you like, but do not doubt for one second that there are not many, many others like me working here in Pristina. Dick Marty has nothing to do with this cover up by Albania. If the allegations are untrue, let the investigation say so. Delaying and obstructing justice is wrong. Period.
(John, 7 August 2009 23:04)
John, as far as I know there were several investigations carried out by the Hague Tribunal, UNMIK, and now EULEX has taken the case. So if you are an EULEX employee stick to it and do your job, bring justice and rule of law, that’s why you are here, or not?
Del Ponte was the head of Hague Tribunal, why didn’t she raise charges on such claims? Several KLA members were tried and released by the same court.
I am for investigations on this issue, but why not have a different approach? Like have a joint investigation of Albanian, Serbian, Kosovo prosecutors together with Dick Marty? Wouldn’t that be a more pragmatic approach to the case?
And as someone said it above, if it is proven by investigation that these allegations are untrue, then Serbia should be really held accountable for ruining the image of an independent country.
Recently three Serbs were arrested in Kosovo on charges that they were “recruiting” witnesses, by bribing them, to witness that they somehow were victims of ‘organ harvesting’ by KLA. Why doesn’t Dick Marty investigate that as a start? There is sufficient proof in this issue. There are transcripts of recordings and if B92 will publish them, I’m willing to translate them into English for free.
This whole case seems to be politicized and aimed at ruining the image of Albania and the Kosovo Albanians, and even NATO and EU, not really that much at finding the whereabouts of the missing persons.
See this link and let me know what you think?
http://de-construct.net/e-zine/?p=1360
pre 14 godina
Hey Mike,
There's no proof and cannot be. The prosecutors are welcome with a mandate. But everybody knows it is impossible. Dick Marty is not impartial. It is public he is not impartial. Dick MArty is a mercenary. He reppresents nobody. Not EU, not NAto, not UNO, nobody.
This is all about politics.
It is technically impossible. A nurse knows it is impossible.
How about the three Serbian operatives arrested in Kosovo for asking fake testimony? This is a shocking proof of dirty play.
What's more important, it doesn't work.
How come NAto, KFOR and Eulex close their eyes? Are they guilty also?
pre 14 godina
"Interesting how the Serbian prosecution got on top of this issue right after Carla's book, which by the way was based on reports of hearsay. Evidence on hearsay won't get you anywhere.
Thankfully Albania has a principled stand on this issue and will not be played by Serbia's propaganda machine."
(Art, 7 August 2009 14:41)
What you should be amazed of Art is the capacity of Serbia to turn this into a request for investigation by an institution of Europe. After an investigation has already been done, and of damaging Albania's image. Albanian politicians, should maybe learn a lesson or two from this whole story, and why not from their Serbian counterparts.
"At first, I thought it was complete nonsense, but now I strongly feel they should be investigated, if only to disclose the involvement of Albania in the Yugoslav wars."
(Matthew, 7 August 2009 23:48)
I can try to give you an idea about Albania in 1997-98 Matthew. Do you know jungle? Anarchy? Imagine a total lack of the state. At least a gun for every family, Kalashnikovs going for 10 euros, kids playing with bombs. Not exaggerating things, all true. 1998 actually started getting a little bit calmer, so it was a little bit calmer than total anarchy.
Now, good luck with finding reponsibilities in the jungle.
pre 14 godina
There was an official investigation by the Hague Tribunal on this issue, in Albania also, and the conclusion was that all these rumours hold no truths. This goes for John the American in EULEX as well. I am an American as well. My taxes pay your salary. So enough with this because you're American, because you work for EULEX your opinion is somehow worth more. Read again there was an investigation and the rumours were found to be lies.
Albania as an independent state does not submit its sovereignty to Serbian wishes be it direct or telegraphed through this dude. Instead of begging the Albanian state to open an investigation you think that by pressuring Albania Serbian wishes and desire for propaganda would come true. The response from our minister was mature and correct. One day you call the whole Albanian ethnicity terrorists and the next day you want cooperation. It doesn't work like that. We were not born yesterday. Your approach is totally wrong.
Mathew you may try to twist things as much as you want. Fact is Albania was not one of the sides of the war.
pre 14 godina
can Albania send its own team to investigate in serbia? and can kosova also send its team to investigate in serbia?
Albania asked an investigation to be international and for all the region, not just one country, because there are even more albanians missing?
so, this is it.. go home. Albania is a country, not a puzzle country like serbia.
pre 14 godina
Why should Albania allow such an investigation? No, sovereign country in the world allows that unless they are occupied by a foreign force. I am not sure whether there is some truth to Carla Del Ponte’s accusation. If it is true however, it's a horrible injustice done to the parents of the missing Serbs and Non Albanians. I believe that the best place to look for evidence is Carla Del Ponte herself. If she is accepting all the royalties for that book, she may as well accept to disclose her witnesses and all the evidence she gathered to embellish her book. She should be forced by the International Court of Justice to explain her evidence now or during the upcoming law suit coming from Albanians. And if her accusations have some true substance, the shear weight of it, would corner Albania into accepting such an investigation.
pre 14 godina
Of course Albania refuses because this is not true,organ harvesting is not a carpentry busines to cut some parts and screw them together.
This is hard to be done in most sophisticated clinics in the west and Balkans none of the countries didnt have those things if if they wanted to do such a thing.
I thing it's a shame for any country to think that this might happened.
cheers from the west!
pre 14 godina
John Eulex
I somehow i dont believe you work for EULEX. As an EULEX employee you should know much more than you are showing here. Or maybe you are just administrative staff??
pre 14 godina
“Mathew you may try to twist things as much as you want. Fact is Albania was not one of the sides of the war.
(johny, 8 August 2009 01:57)”
So you are claiming that no KLA ever entered Albanian territory? That Albania did its best to keep weapons from flowing into Kosovo? That no one in Albania supplied funds or aid to the rebels? That no Albanians from Albania participated in the conflict?
I find those assertions highly dubious.
Fact is, Albania’s full role in the conflict has never completely been investigated and many questions remain unanswered.
Keep in mind the Taliban were wiped out of Afghanistan by the US because Bin Laden attacked the US. They did nothing more than give Bin Laden a place to train his terrorists, they were not involved in any way with 9/11.
Do you think Serbia had the right to do the same with Albania? Or do you think American policy in Afghanistan was completely wrong?
Or do you believe there should be one rule for the US and a different rule for Serbia?
What about Iraq? Up to a million civilians have been killed there by American forces. That’s OK with you though isn’t it? 2,000 Albanians is justification for cluster bombs, but 1 million Iraqi’s is just collateral damage?
pre 14 godina
Poor Albania, they dream of joining the EU but walk in the other direction.
pre 14 godina
investigations should have been accpted by the albanian govt,just to prove where these allegedly "harvested" persons have gone!
Let them investigate and discover how serbian criminals have used albania to gain south america!let them discover what arkan was doing in albania with his friends!
it is of the most importance to elucided the presence of the serbian counterspionage in albania at that time!
of course,mr Berisha will never agry to that:he is the one who was welcoming arkan in tirana and who was meeting with serbian officials at the very time albanians were killid in kosovo!
journalist ukaj,who managed to film one of these meeting was killed for this,but he had time to show the video to Azem hajdari,and he toowas killed for that!
Don't forget:the uncle of madame Berisha was too a top member of the udb in yugoslavia and her mother was a resident officer in Albania!
Yes,too bad that Mr Berisha does not want these pages of his recent history to be brought at light!
Then we would have to investigate about milosheviq staff investissments in albania today,and that's too risky for all of them!
Dick Marty has a good knowledgje of these criminal trafficking ,that's why he is not welcomed neither by serbia nor by albanian who has created this mess only to be free to do their "affairs"as they want!Now Mr berisha and family have and excellent collaboration with Fazliç and the serbian clan throught cyprus and or banja luka!!even Shkelzen Berisha was seen in serbian part of bosnia,what for and why? May be with thes investigation for organs,mr Marty would have discover a much more dirty bizness among some serbians and some albanians!
pre 14 godina
Matthew,
The state in Albania disappeared during those years, due to the failing of the pyramid schemes, which the state had endorsed. People lost their money, and turned on the state and the state collapsed. The army(what was left of it) collapsed too, so all its depots were left unguarded, and the people got a lot of weapons, which the KLA bought with its own money. Serbia had a couple of those pyramid schemes too, financing Milosevic. I remember a woman showing the safes full of money on tv to have the Serbs reassured.
If there was any help to the KLA, it came from private individuals, not from the state, which did not exist.
I wish there had been a state to help the KLA, maybe the KLA would have performed better, but there was no state.
I would suggest you to keep out Afghanistan or Iraq, because they have nothing to do with this part of the world.
pre 14 godina
P.S. so that you understand.
You can not investigate on something which didn't exist at the time, the Albanian state.
pre 14 godina
Yes dudes, Albania has something to cover up :) You go now after 10 years and you want to find proofs? What proofs? Are you insane? If Albanians were so good to make transplant surgeries in a village where electricity is cut every few hours they would been able to erase every sign of such surgeries...didn't they have 10 years to do that?
pre 14 godina
"I refuse to believe that it is true, but I would like that issue investigated".
And you are...?? I would like a lot of things too, but I am not authorized. How about investigating cannibalism in, say, Norway. I have no evidence, but I heard a rumor. It may not be true but...
There is a court for crimes committed in the 90's: HAGUE and it's still active. If anyone has evidence they can take it there. Not an "investigator" who writes a report with no rebuttal. (Marty is still upset over Kosova declaring independence FYI; I posted a link yesterday)
Fishing expeditions for propaganda purposes are not allowed, Albania is a sovereign country and I am pleasantly surprised they finally grew a pair. The only evidence we have seen is a picture of KLA fighters passing the border to Albania (duh!,) a Google Earth one and some pictures of syringes that wounded KLA fighters used, and a paragraph used to sell a book.
I expect some will say "what are you hiding" etc but secretly you wish Tadic stood up to all those requests from others and upheld the sovereignty. 300 Serbs are missing, but 2000 Albanians are STILL missing as well. Why isn't Dick investigating that too?
pre 14 godina
"Oh Yes?? Serbia MUST cooperate with Hague Tribunal, but Albania can refuse any international investigations?? "
Hague was setup by UN, Dick Marty doesn't have a UN mandate. Hague looked at the allegations 10 years ago.
P.S. You cannot prove a negative, so Albania wins nothing. Dick would have said "Maybe it happened, Maybe it didn't."
Can Serbia prove they didn't do what they are accusing the Albanians of doing?
pre 14 godina
"because it is about untrue pretensions for which there is no proof".
No proof! What about those former fighters who claim otherwise.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
Besides if Albania has nothing to hide then let them do the investigation.
The truth is that Albania and albanians are guilty as hell. Time is not on the side of the albanians. The truth will come out, sooner or later. Albanian warcrimes have been hidden for too long.
pre 14 godina
Interesting how the Serbian prosecution got on top of this issue right after Carla's book, which by the way was based on reports of hearsay. Evidence on hearsay won't get you anywhere.
Thankfully Albania has a principled stand on this issue and will not be played by Serbia's propaganda machine.
pre 14 godina
How much space do alledged KLA Crime find in serb publicity and how much those commited by Serbian Police, Army and Para-groups? Just stick to Del Ponte reposrts, or HRW or AI or UN or what ever. Serb policy is not interested in the fate of those missed people nor in that of Serbs living in Kosovo. They are just a chance to get some profile for some careerists
pre 14 godina
1. The burden of providing proofs is on the accusatory side not on the accused one. Serbia is accusing, Serbia should provide IRON proofs and not pres-conferences.
2. The international investigation. The HAGUE court was established by UN to investigate the war crimes IN Yugoslavia. For those that are disgusted should know that Albania was never part of Yugo hence the Hague has not competences on investigating in Albania, while it HAS for Serbia and any other Yugo country Kosova including as they did with haradinaj case. Nevertheless, Albania DID allow Hague to investigate these accusations and Hague sent a team of about 20 forensic investigators who found NOTHING- consequently Hague closed the case.
Dick Martin in Albania? No state will allow that some foreign citizen goes to her country and investigates as she/he wishes. Albania, as any other state, is not open book that anyone can go and do whatever he/she wants.
One can go and accuse Tadic as theft, but this doesn’t mean that Tadic must open his house to anyone to prove that he is innocent.
Personally I know, and hundred of thousands as me, that in the archives of the Serbian intelligence there are proofs of the crimes committed in Kosova, Bosnia and Croatia. Can I access them?? IS Serbia is innocent it should allow me to access the archives of UDBA. It doesn’t work like that…
However, "An investigation can be launched only by the Albanian prosecution based on requests coming from other countries. In that case the prosecution undertakes all actions to clear up the issue."
pre 14 godina
It seems that Sali Berisha counts on American support. He does not want to be discovered what he and his friends from Kosovo did. It seems that nothing will happen as Albania is now Nato member and they have American support. I just feel sorry for the victims of this horrific crimes.
pre 14 godina
I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply.
pre 14 godina
Oh Yes?? Serbia MUST cooperate with Hague Tribunal, but Albania can refuse any international investigations??
So - if Netherland is not hypocrite country - they must stopped any EU integration speech with Albania.
pre 14 godina
"Half a truth is often a great lie"
As someone already mentioned here, If, just in case charges are raised against Serbian army or paramilitary, can Serbia prove that it had not done the same with the missing Albanians?
pre 14 godina
EU sends this guy just to make some people happy and to make it look as if Tadic has done something. They have done this eventhough the result was known. UN has conducted an investigation upon request from Hague.
pre 14 godina
Hold your horses, Serbian camp. You are too quick to point your fingers.
1.Albania for example would like whether or not those Serbia arrested in Presheva a couple of months ago are being falsely accused. We have a guy from the US who can do the investigation on our behalf. I don't see how Serbia is going to allow that.
2. This is not a Hague investigation. Let's be really clear about that. Hague already investigated this case and came to the conclusion that there was no truth to it. Let's be clear about that too.
3. Hague does not apply to Albania as it was not a part of Jugoslavia and it wasn't one of the sides that were at war each other. It' simple just like that.
4.This is a guys Serbia has convinced to do the work for them. Well as an independent state Albania has every right to put a stop to investigations that are telegraphed by Belgrade.
5. International investigations start with asking permission from the country you are trying to investigate in. So in this case we do not have an international organization known for investigating issues; and Albania was brought to the knowledge of this stuff only through Serbian governmental mouthpieces like B92. Then one day a dude comes and tells you he wants to investigate in your own country. Well this is an independent country; there are rules and there are protocols. As our minister pointed out this dude does not fall under any of those protocols.
6. If there is going to be an investigation it should start very differently. It has to be done from a well respected international institution, which deals with investigations, with the collaboration of Albanian prosecutors. After all we are speaking of an independent country that hasn't been or participated in a war since WWII. Permission should be asked to Albania by this organization. Serbia or its institutions should have nothing to do with this investigation since from what we see, all they do is turn myths into propaganda that the Serbs here on B92 are too happy to buy. If that's not possible Serb institutions will have to sign a disclosure contract in which it is stated that any mention or use of the investigation by the Serb officials, political class or the Serb church for propaganda and political gains prior to the investigation being closed will immediately result to the investigation ending. Albania since its allowing such investigation reserves the right to have it prosecutors alongside the international prosecutors wherever the issue brings them; Serbia or Kosova. I believe the Serbs should not have an issue with this since they want this investigation and not the other way around.
In case this investigation like the Hague one proves that these rumours hold no truths, Serbia has to pay for the damages that incurred the state of Albania. Damages such as tarnishing the country's image by Serbian politician such as this Lajlic guy, the Serb prosecutor and Tadic and Jeremic at the UN. Pay for the cost of the investigation. Pay the Albanian state because its finest prosecutors were being held investigating rumours when they could be doing something else. In the contract with the Serbian institutions there should also be a clause in which it is stated that in case these investigations prove that there is no truth to the rumours Serbia as a state should be punished by not receiving EU grants for at least 5 years; and EU accession should be delayed for at least 10 years. Visa liberation is to be abolished immediately after the investigation if it is proven that nothing Serbia alleges is true.
I believe that Serbia or any Serb out there should not be against such punishments and Serbia being made to monetarily pay since they are so absolutely sure these things happened. And of course if it is proven the opposite Serbia will have to pay a high price for taking the time, efforts, money, and slowing the progress of the region based on a lie; if the investigation proves that it is a lie. Then we can have an investigation. Things were investigated before and it was proven they were lies. Yet still we have Serbia behave like a spoiled child. If things are investigated again and again it is proved that these are indeed lies; then this spoiled child has to be punished severely.
I hope we do have an investigation; a fair one, not one telegraphed from Belgrade, so that we that these conspiracy theories are put to an end once and forever.
pre 14 godina
The "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" has asked the Kosovo Albanian government to file a lawsuit against Del Ponte because they know she "launched lies"?
Carla Del Ponte was as anti Serbian as they came and if this "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" has evidence to justify its position then I suggest they come forward and reveal it.
Moreso, how can the "Kosovo Council for Protection of Human Rights" asked that an investigation into human organ traffiking be dropped? Isn't their interest the protection of human rights?
Looks like some people have something to hide. The sooner we get to the bottom of it the better. Albania's EU aspirations are on the line here.
pre 14 godina
Wow, they are in blind panick.
Now they want to sue Carla but refuse to have the matter investigated so that they have proof of her lies.
In other words, it's all lies but I won't let you investigate even if it is to prove that it's all lies. How dumb is that?
This only points to their guilt. I guess, even assumption of guilt is better than proof of guilt.
pre 14 godina
Here we go, hardly surprising but that was certainly the wrong answer to give to stubborn Dick Marty, it will only reinforced this will to uncover the truth.
It will be very interesting to see how the European Council will now react!
With this kind of attitude you are just digging further your pale image!
(The Swiss, 7 August 2009 13:50)
You are right that Dick Marty is very stubborn, and at the same time he made coments with his own mouth that he does not beleive there is any truth to this story, BUT.....
But, what Marty? are you trying to have your pictures on front pages on Serbian papers.
Then again, I think that Albanian authoriites should have allowed him to investigate it but along with Albanian prosecutor at his side at all time including joint press conferences, so as not to allow him any mokey business for benefit of his employer(Serbia).
pre 14 godina
Yes, and we all know why you are refusing! Your conscience is guilty!
But then again I cannot say I am surprised by their answer. In a country where anarchi rules that was the only thing they could utter.
Shame on them and their supporters.
pre 14 godina
---"I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply."
And i am the Queen of England here to remind you that Dick Marty does NOT work for EU.
Didn't Vekaric say that Sali Berish himself participated in "organ trade" ? That's how serious your persecutors are taken.
---"Well Albania if you have nothing to hide let the investigations begin. No good having that attitude if you want to be in the EU."
Council of Europe is fake human rights organization with Russia, Serbia, Belarus and other "human rights" champions, it has nothing to do with EU. Dick Marty hates USA, hates Kosova Independence so he should go investigate in Serbia (find Mladic perhaps?) since you love him.
To anyone that "has nothing to hide," can you let me go throw your house to see if you have committed a crime. You have nothing to hide, right?
Serbia should allow Albanian investigators to investigate what happened to the still missing 2000+ Albanians. What are you hiding?
pre 14 godina
Do you have something to hide, gentlemen?
pre 14 godina
investigations should have been accpted by the albanian govt,just to prove where these allegedly "harvested" persons have gone!
Let them investigate and discover how serbian criminals have used albania to gain south america!let them discover what arkan was doing in albania with his friends!
it is of the most importance to elucided the presence of the serbian counterspionage in albania at that time!
of course,mr Berisha will never agry to that:he is the one who was welcoming arkan in tirana and who was meeting with serbian officials at the very time albanians were killid in kosovo!
journalist ukaj,who managed to film one of these meeting was killed for this,but he had time to show the video to Azem hajdari,and he toowas killed for that!
Don't forget:the uncle of madame Berisha was too a top member of the udb in yugoslavia and her mother was a resident officer in Albania!
Yes,too bad that Mr Berisha does not want these pages of his recent history to be brought at light!
Then we would have to investigate about milosheviq staff investissments in albania today,and that's too risky for all of them!
Dick Marty has a good knowledgje of these criminal trafficking ,that's why he is not welcomed neither by serbia nor by albanian who has created this mess only to be free to do their "affairs"as they want!Now Mr berisha and family have and excellent collaboration with Fazliç and the serbian clan throught cyprus and or banja luka!!even Shkelzen Berisha was seen in serbian part of bosnia,what for and why? May be with thes investigation for organs,mr Marty would have discover a much more dirty bizness among some serbians and some albanians!
pre 14 godina
Well I suppose albania's rejection makes sense. It is not as if they will be joining the EU in the next 5, 10, 15, 20 etc. years or so.
Can't argue with those who wish to remain backward and settle disputes on medieval canon law. Just no place for such countries in the EU.
So far away for the EU, so little future.
pre 14 godina
Well Albania if you have nothing to hide let the investigations begin. No good having that attitude if you want to be in the EU.
Or to put it another way Albania do as your told.
pre 14 godina
How about these arguments:
1- it is technically impossible to carry out organ harvesting in such conditions. Every nurse knows this very well. The doctors also.
2- this issue has been already investigated and there's no proof. The journalists told Carla del Ponte they had sources. Where are the sources? Vecaric wants to go to Albania and investigate? Seems a little bit an "effortless superiority", does it?
3- how about coming to Serbia to investigate the Albanian missing people. There are 2000 of them as of today?
pre 14 godina
Accusations are made against 48 Serbs and they are all, except 2, found and extradited to the Hague for trial by a court outside Serbia. Accusations are made against a terrorist organisation about alleged crimes against Serbs and suddenly there appears this unwritten law that nobody outside of Albania can investigate alleged war crimes involving Albanians except Albania itself? With that logic, can I assume that once Mladic is apprehended he will be investigated and tried in Belgrade? Surely that is the case as that is the only way that a fair and balanced approach can be followed. In fact, now that I think about it, if Serbia says they refuse to believe anything anyone is accusing Mladic of then he should be allowed to be a free man with no investigation permitted. I admire the Albanian sense of fair play.
pre 14 godina
let's stay on the subject aRTA. We are discussing thei investatigation of the "yellow house" claims of organ harvesting for profit. If Albania has nothing to hide then allow an independent inquiry. If someone threatening a law suit then they have something to hide. In 1999 Carla Del Ponte was a champion of Kosovo's cause now since she is not in the same party she has become an out cast. See EU and NATO how if all is good then we are good. If Albania and Kosovo is doing all of this squawking then there is something to hide.
pre 14 godina
Serbia is co-operating with the Hague regarding war crimes. If Albania is innocent why not open all doors and proof it?
pre 14 godina
Here we go, hardly surprising but that was certainly the wrong answer to give to stubborn Dick Marty, it will only reinforced this will to uncover the truth.
It will be very interesting to see how the European Council will now react!
With this kind of attitude you are just digging further your pale image!
pre 14 godina
can Albania send its own team to investigate in serbia? and can kosova also send its team to investigate in serbia?
Albania asked an investigation to be international and for all the region, not just one country, because there are even more albanians missing?
so, this is it.. go home. Albania is a country, not a puzzle country like serbia.
pre 14 godina
Hey Mike,
There's no proof and cannot be. The prosecutors are welcome with a mandate. But everybody knows it is impossible. Dick Marty is not impartial. It is public he is not impartial. Dick MArty is a mercenary. He reppresents nobody. Not EU, not NAto, not UNO, nobody.
This is all about politics.
It is technically impossible. A nurse knows it is impossible.
How about the three Serbian operatives arrested in Kosovo for asking fake testimony? This is a shocking proof of dirty play.
What's more important, it doesn't work.
How come NAto, KFOR and Eulex close their eyes? Are they guilty also?
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I have still to see Serbia allowing Albanian investigators to investigate 2000 missing Albanians in Serbia. Until that is done no Serbian can have a holier than thou attitude without being hypocritical.
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'BTW, by your grammar and spelling, just where in the USA do you live?l
(MyTwoCents, 7 August 2009 17:39) '
Theoretically, B92 has a no-insult policy. Even if it didn't, since the majority of the posters at this site are not native-speakers of English, it would be a good idea not to start insulting each other's use of the language. Living in a country, unfortunately, does not automatically result in the acquisition of a perfect knowledge of its language, as I can attest from personal experience :(
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This just proves that Albania is SCARED OF INVESTIGATION, and will do everything to forbid it.
Bad news for them, (on the side a disastrous image that this sends to the world) is that some crimes will legally never become too old, and this is definitely one of them.
But then a whole country in accord to the medieval law still in force i Albania is a hostage of Ramush and Berisha.
It is because they don't want this investigation to happen.
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---"I work for EULEX and I am absolutely DISGUSTED with Albania's lack of participation in this investigation. They should be denied any consideration for EU until they comply."
"And i am the Queen of England here to remind you that Dick Marty does NOT work for EU."
@Arta,
Your arrogance knows know bounds. I AM a EULEX employee, I AM American, and I AM disgusted by Albania's lack of cooperation. Despite what you may like to think, not everyone in EULEX is biased towards Albanians. Some of us are for unbiased policing. Believe what you like, but do not doubt for one second that there are not many, many others like me working here in Pristina. Dick Marty has nothing to do with this cover up by Albania. If the allegations are untrue, let the investigation say so. Delaying and obstructing justice is wrong. Period.
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Well done Albania!Albanians should be proud of your governments decision for not letting them investigate something that the UN,OSCE etc.didn't find any evidence.Case CLOSED!Serbia has enough cases to investigate in it's own soil!Serbia is full of mass graves with transported K-Albanian bodies,what make someone to believe that the Serbs were one who took organs from K-Albanians, since they were transported a live in Serbia...then put in a river or buried in mass graves?So again,Albanian Gov.did great job denying Serb (not the international)Investigators to go in Albanian soil.Mr.Dick(head) Marty is just an ally of C. Del Ponte & S.Milosevic.Some ppl say that the EU should pressure Albania to allow this investigation! The EU can't do anything about it.Albania survived without EU for many Milleniums...they will survive the future without the EU too!
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Your arrogance knows know bounds. I AM a EULEX employee, I AM American, and I AM disgusted by Albania's lack of cooperation. Despite what you may like to think, not everyone in EULEX is biased towards Albanians. Some of us are for unbiased policing. Believe what you like, but do not doubt for one second that there are not many, many others like me working here in Pristina. Dick Marty has nothing to do with this cover up by Albania. If the allegations are untrue, let the investigation say so. Delaying and obstructing justice is wrong. Period.
(John, 7 August 2009 23:04)
John, as far as I know there were several investigations carried out by the Hague Tribunal, UNMIK, and now EULEX has taken the case. So if you are an EULEX employee stick to it and do your job, bring justice and rule of law, that’s why you are here, or not?
Del Ponte was the head of Hague Tribunal, why didn’t she raise charges on such claims? Several KLA members were tried and released by the same court.
I am for investigations on this issue, but why not have a different approach? Like have a joint investigation of Albanian, Serbian, Kosovo prosecutors together with Dick Marty? Wouldn’t that be a more pragmatic approach to the case?
And as someone said it above, if it is proven by investigation that these allegations are untrue, then Serbia should be really held accountable for ruining the image of an independent country.
Recently three Serbs were arrested in Kosovo on charges that they were “recruiting” witnesses, by bribing them, to witness that they somehow were victims of ‘organ harvesting’ by KLA. Why doesn’t Dick Marty investigate that as a start? There is sufficient proof in this issue. There are transcripts of recordings and if B92 will publish them, I’m willing to translate them into English for free.
This whole case seems to be politicized and aimed at ruining the image of Albania and the Kosovo Albanians, and even NATO and EU, not really that much at finding the whereabouts of the missing persons.
See this link and let me know what you think?
http://de-construct.net/e-zine/?p=1360
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Then again, I think that Albanian authorites should allow him to investigate it but along with Albanian prosecutor at his side at all time including joint press conferences, so as not to allow him any mokey business for benefit of his employer(Serbia).
(Kosova-USA, 7 August 2009 15:03)
Either you do not really know who Dick Marty is, or you, as always wants to close your eyes and go on with pooring non sense nationalistic comments.
So, just to try to improve your knowledge, if ever that is possible, I attach a link of Mr Marty bio....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Marty
I know that his visit is scaring a lot of people and most propably they are right to be scared!
Just recall, CIA and MI5 together denied for years that secret prisons ever existed...until Dick Marty came, yes he is even more stubborn that you can think off and none of the country in questions managed to stop him investigating including GB and USA, so Albania will not be an exception either if they ever want to eventually have a slight chance to approach EU in the decades to come!
Last but not least if you are all so convinced that nothing ever happend, then let the officialy appointed COE representent do his job and close this file for ever. At the end not only serbs are in questions but romas and even albanians that didn't want to blindy follow a bunch of criminals!
Good luck Mr Marty
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In a way, this issue bears some resemblance to Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide: they want the rest of the world to believe that nothing happened. The counter evidence this is based on is nothing empirical or factual; just "well it's a crime to insult the Turkish people" and "if anything did happen, they had it coming".
The point here is not to compound refusal to cooperate with stubborn indignance. If these allegations are indeed no more than ghost hunts and kafana rumors, open the books, let the investigators in, and this can be cleared up in a week. But to turn around and sue those accusors and now suddenly play the "no one can interfere on my property" card - even though most Albanians have been very vocal about international intervention in the case of Presevo - only furthers the conviction of those who think such a crime was in fact committed.
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"Serbia should allow Albanian investigators to investigate what happened to the still missing 2000+ Albanians."
aRTA
We see how well the albanian police is doing in Kosovo. The can't even find a bicycle thief much less anything else. Let the big boys do the investigating. You just relax at your coffee shops and complain about all your miseries by blaming Milosevic and the Serbs.
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Of course Albania refuses because this is not true,organ harvesting is not a carpentry busines to cut some parts and screw them together.
This is hard to be done in most sophisticated clinics in the west and Balkans none of the countries didnt have those things if if they wanted to do such a thing.
I thing it's a shame for any country to think that this might happened.
cheers from the west!
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Kosovo USA, I had no idea Marty was employed by Serbia. Thanks for enlightening us. And you are so right, he must be doing this just to get his picture in Belgrade's newspapers. You have an unbelievable ability to get to the bottom of things. BTW, by your grammar and spelling, just where in the USA do you live?l
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For the sake of the Albanians themselves there should be an international investigation. Kidnapped Kosovo-Serbs were not the only victims of organ trafficking in Albania in the late 1990s. There are reports dating back to 1997 and 1998 of Albanian children and babies being being kidnapped from hospitals and orphanages in Albania for their organs to be sold on the black market. There were dismembered babies found in garbage dumps in Tirana with their organs cut-out. There were stories of Albanian diplomats being involved in the scheme. I first heard about blackmarket organ trafficking in Albania in 1998. There was a story about it in the London Observer on October 25, 1998 by Helena Smith. It's likely to turn out that the majority of victims were Albanian children. The kidnapped Kosovo-Serbs were more likely targets of oppourtunity. They were probably captured by the KLA and sold to the traffickers in exchange for money or weapons, but I have a feeling that if there is a proper international investigation that the majority of victims will be Albanian children and the perpetrators will be exposed as high-ranking officials in the Kosovo and Albanian governments -- and that's why they don't want an investigation.
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Let’s examine some of the claims being made here by the Albanian side.
“Hague does not apply to Albania as it was not a part of Jugoslavia and it wasn't one of the sides that were at war each other.”
“we are speaking of an independent country that hasn't been or participated in a war since WWII.”
These crimes started in Kosovo, part of Yugoslavia, and Albania participated in training and arming the KLA and supplied bases from which to carry out the attacks. Albania was absolutely involved in the war and their involvement MUST be investigated and determined. Serbia absolutely has a right to investigate and demand the extradition of any Albanians involved since the kidnappings occurred on their soil.
“Serbian governmental mouthpieces like B92… all they do is turn myths into propaganda that the Serbs here on B92 are too happy to buy.”
You don’t know much about the history of B92 then, Milosevic HATED them, they are not a nationalist mouth piece, they are the voice of the opposition and practically the only media in Serbia to report on Milosevic’s crimes while he was in power.
“how about coming to Serbia to investigate the Albanian missing people. There are 2000 of them as of today?”
“I have still to see Serbia allowing Albanian investigators to investigate 2000 missing Albanians in Serbia.”
“300 Serbs are missing, but 2000 Albanians are STILL missing as well.”
http://www.b92.net/eng/news/society-article.php?yyyy=2007&mm=04&dd=27&nav_category=102&nav_id=40930
Yes, 2,000 are missing, but only 1,300 are Albanians. That means 35% of the missing are non-Albanians, FAR above what their percentage of the population are. The former KLA leaders have a lot yet to answer for in Kosovo. I can’t believe I’m seeing these sorts of distortions of the truth see going on when its clearly documented by multiple sources.
“In case this investigation like the Hague one proves that these rumours hold no truths, Serbia has to pay for the damages that incurred the state of Albania. Damages such as tarnishing the country's image”
Oh I agree. I also think lies and rumors like 800,000 Albanians killed or missing in Kosovo should also be punished, after all Serbia was majorly bombed for months because of it (including cluster bombs), and the reality turned out to be only 2,000 were killed in an ugly insurgency before the bombing took place, an extremely low number for the type of guerilla war that was going on. In Iraq for example, hundreds of thousands, some say a million, Iraqi’s were killed since the US invasion. 2,000 versus 1 million? What should be done to those countries and media outlets that support and created these lies against the Serbian nation? Slander at its worst.
I still remained unconvinced the organ thefts took place, they are just too fantastic to take at face value. At first, I thought it was complete nonsense, but now I strongly feel they should be investigated, if only to disclose the involvement of Albania in the Yugoslav wars.
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There was an official investigation by the Hague Tribunal on this issue, in Albania also, and the conclusion was that all these rumours hold no truths. This goes for John the American in EULEX as well. I am an American as well. My taxes pay your salary. So enough with this because you're American, because you work for EULEX your opinion is somehow worth more. Read again there was an investigation and the rumours were found to be lies.
Albania as an independent state does not submit its sovereignty to Serbian wishes be it direct or telegraphed through this dude. Instead of begging the Albanian state to open an investigation you think that by pressuring Albania Serbian wishes and desire for propaganda would come true. The response from our minister was mature and correct. One day you call the whole Albanian ethnicity terrorists and the next day you want cooperation. It doesn't work like that. We were not born yesterday. Your approach is totally wrong.
Mathew you may try to twist things as much as you want. Fact is Albania was not one of the sides of the war.
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Poor Albania, they dream of joining the EU but walk in the other direction.
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I haven't bothered to read most articles on here but I imagine that most Albanians are up in arms if this crime is about to be discovered.
All I need to say is this. HRW (whom I assume most people here will consider to be independent) have supposedly seen the evidence and concluded that there is a possible crime to investigate. If the Albanians want better relations then they shouldn't be afraid to let an independent enquiry take place on Albania's soil to prove or disprove the accusation. I must admit, the ferocity of the denial by the Albanians leads me to think they have something to hide. Take your chance and prove that Serbia is mistaken!
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With Albania's refusal to cooperate with foreign investigators, allegations now become cemented as admittance by these naive politicians.
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From the article:
""Only the Albanian prosecution has a right to carry out an investigation in the territory of Albania," Albanian Minister of Justice Enkeled Alibeaj told Marty, according to an RTV 21 report. "
"Alibeaj also told the Swiss CoE official that "no foreign citizen can conduct procedural investigative actions in the Albanian territory." "
This from the BBC's 'Newsnight' tv program of April 14th: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/7998290.stm
"We are open to any investigation that has to bring once again the truth in evidence. So we are sure that nothing has happened & so when you are on the side of the right, you are not afraid about that." - Albanian MP Qemal Minxhosi.
That was then when UNMIK 'binned' the investigation of these allegations after having the case passed onto them by the ICTY who cited a lack of jurisdiction.
And from the same BBC footage: "there was a reluctance in the UN mission to risk upsetting Kosovos's rulers, many of them ex-KLA commanders & stability seemed more important than justice.
Albanian authorities seem to have changed their tune somewhat now that someone with the pedigree of Dick Marty is leading the investigation.
So much for being unafraid.
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John Eulex
I somehow i dont believe you work for EULEX. As an EULEX employee you should know much more than you are showing here. Or maybe you are just administrative staff??
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“Mathew you may try to twist things as much as you want. Fact is Albania was not one of the sides of the war.
(johny, 8 August 2009 01:57)”
So you are claiming that no KLA ever entered Albanian territory? That Albania did its best to keep weapons from flowing into Kosovo? That no one in Albania supplied funds or aid to the rebels? That no Albanians from Albania participated in the conflict?
I find those assertions highly dubious.
Fact is, Albania’s full role in the conflict has never completely been investigated and many questions remain unanswered.
Keep in mind the Taliban were wiped out of Afghanistan by the US because Bin Laden attacked the US. They did nothing more than give Bin Laden a place to train his terrorists, they were not involved in any way with 9/11.
Do you think Serbia had the right to do the same with Albania? Or do you think American policy in Afghanistan was completely wrong?
Or do you believe there should be one rule for the US and a different rule for Serbia?
What about Iraq? Up to a million civilians have been killed there by American forces. That’s OK with you though isn’t it? 2,000 Albanians is justification for cluster bombs, but 1 million Iraqi’s is just collateral damage?
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"it is technically impossible to carry out organ harvesting in such conditions."
gjon cima
You seem to know a lot about organ harvesting. Perhaps the investigators should pay you a visit? Only look at what others have done to you but not what you have done to others.
You say there is no proof! You are wrong. Fortunately there are some brave albanians who want the truth to come out.
"Now, looking back, I know that some of the things that were done to innocent civilians were wrong".
Former KLA Fighter
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7990984.stm
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acquisition of a perfect knowledge of its language, as I can attest from personal experience :(
(Amer, 7 August 2009 19:12)
Amer, you are right in this but then don't you think that B92 should be also more strict in filtering some aggressive nationalistic posters (don't want to name them....) which at the end bring nothing to the discussion and only darken the already disastrous image that you guys are having in EU.
And one more time for Mr Marty's bio
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dick_Marty
and look very well at his picture, you might see his face more often that you wish and not in the serbian newspapers!
One more topic, the fact that some NGO wants Carla Del Ponte to be sued, great news, she will finally be able to speak out freely and she certainly have so much to say, so pls do it!
Looking at the K-A/A reactions proves that Dick Marty is already on the right track and now you can be sure that he will stick to your neck for a long time to come until he gets what he wants!
Knocking at the EU door is a very tricky exercise and can be very costy and albania showed today with it's childish behavior that it is light-years away!
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One of the reasons one would not allow an investigation, is because he knows he has something to hide.
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What's more important, it doesn't work.
How come NAto, KFOR and Eulex close their eyes? Are they guilty also?
(gjon cima, 7 August 2009 21:58)
Indeed Mr Marty does not work for NATO (fortunately...) EU, US or God knows for whom but has been appointed by the Council of Europe, you know the one that takes care of human rights, democratic values, rule of law, etc. familiar words isnt't it??
I attached a link so that all the... can have a deeper look as for whom Mr Marty is working....
By the way I don't think that Serbia is part of the COE, unless I missed a chapter... but who knows maybe Mr Jeremic has long fingers there...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_europe
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Why should Albania allow such an investigation? No, sovereign country in the world allows that unless they are occupied by a foreign force. I am not sure whether there is some truth to Carla Del Ponte’s accusation. If it is true however, it's a horrible injustice done to the parents of the missing Serbs and Non Albanians. I believe that the best place to look for evidence is Carla Del Ponte herself. If she is accepting all the royalties for that book, she may as well accept to disclose her witnesses and all the evidence she gathered to embellish her book. She should be forced by the International Court of Justice to explain her evidence now or during the upcoming law suit coming from Albanians. And if her accusations have some true substance, the shear weight of it, would corner Albania into accepting such an investigation.
pre 14 godina
"Interesting how the Serbian prosecution got on top of this issue right after Carla's book, which by the way was based on reports of hearsay. Evidence on hearsay won't get you anywhere.
Thankfully Albania has a principled stand on this issue and will not be played by Serbia's propaganda machine."
(Art, 7 August 2009 14:41)
What you should be amazed of Art is the capacity of Serbia to turn this into a request for investigation by an institution of Europe. After an investigation has already been done, and of damaging Albania's image. Albanian politicians, should maybe learn a lesson or two from this whole story, and why not from their Serbian counterparts.
"At first, I thought it was complete nonsense, but now I strongly feel they should be investigated, if only to disclose the involvement of Albania in the Yugoslav wars."
(Matthew, 7 August 2009 23:48)
I can try to give you an idea about Albania in 1997-98 Matthew. Do you know jungle? Anarchy? Imagine a total lack of the state. At least a gun for every family, Kalashnikovs going for 10 euros, kids playing with bombs. Not exaggerating things, all true. 1998 actually started getting a little bit calmer, so it was a little bit calmer than total anarchy.
Now, good luck with finding reponsibilities in the jungle.
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Matthew,
The state in Albania disappeared during those years, due to the failing of the pyramid schemes, which the state had endorsed. People lost their money, and turned on the state and the state collapsed. The army(what was left of it) collapsed too, so all its depots were left unguarded, and the people got a lot of weapons, which the KLA bought with its own money. Serbia had a couple of those pyramid schemes too, financing Milosevic. I remember a woman showing the safes full of money on tv to have the Serbs reassured.
If there was any help to the KLA, it came from private individuals, not from the state, which did not exist.
I wish there had been a state to help the KLA, maybe the KLA would have performed better, but there was no state.
I would suggest you to keep out Afghanistan or Iraq, because they have nothing to do with this part of the world.
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P.S. so that you understand.
You can not investigate on something which didn't exist at the time, the Albanian state.
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Yes dudes, Albania has something to cover up :) You go now after 10 years and you want to find proofs? What proofs? Are you insane? If Albanians were so good to make transplant surgeries in a village where electricity is cut every few hours they would been able to erase every sign of such surgeries...didn't they have 10 years to do that?
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