Albanians want "Preševo Valley region"

The EU and US will not allow any more division of Serbia if they do its time the Serb goverment shows some backbone and put troops on the ground.

And the story continues....Albanians want Presevo Valley, as they want Kosovo, Bosnia, and "their" part of Macedonia (FYROM). When is the world going to wake up and see the destructive nature of radical Albanians and Islam??? Why should Albanians (and Islam) wherever they live in the Balkans be the primary source for social unrest??? Realistically, every race and society has their own disruptive elements....but they also have their crowning elements, such as in sports, science, technology, etc. All people need discipline- both individual and societal- and they need to advance in life through their own efforts, not by constantly "expecting" aid from others, or with constant threats of force. Albanians SHOULD be together to work out their own lives and society- but NOT in a Balkan "Greater Albania"- just in their OWN country of Albania.

Of course the Albanians want to take southern Serbia! This is not a surprise. Serbs only fight each other and play water polo.

Voijvodina is practically gone, thanks mr Tadic, so why not S Serbia?

The real Serbian government (which resides in the comforts of the US embassy in Belgrade ) will do nothing. Afterall, in the dream world called Serbia and the EU-national borders dont exist anymore-at least not for the highly misinformed and misguided Serbs-poor Serbs.

But dont be to upset my Serbian brothers, they will leave us a few crumbs.

So what are you waiting for Albanians? Get geraldo rivera on the phone and set up a few chairs down there in presovo. Get a few hundred Albanians and start circling Geraldo and his cameramen. The headlines will read hundreds of thousands of ethnic Albanians being ethnicly cleansed from Southern Serbia. CNN cant wait, neither can NATO. (and dont forget to mention the rape camps-CNN eats that one up)

Christianne Amanpour is waiting!

All terrorists will be arrested!

Reading some of the comments from the Serbian panel here and should that be the Serbian official stance, it proves that Serbia has never been interested in solving any dispute by negotiations or peaceful means. That would mean trying to scare the Albanians living in Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegja as they did in Kosova.

Hubris but sudden honesty in the Albanian camp, they smell greater Albania by the minutes. as long as nobody stops them it will be even greater...

"Run and grab as many hill tops as you can. What you dont take will go to them." Ariel Sharon.

Its great the Albanian Muslims become even more unreasonable every day - now they want more land and for terrorists to be freed.

Europe is awakening to the Taliban in Kosovo and Bosnia.

Europe will understand that Serbia was and is the first line of defence against Islamic jihad.

The people who deserve independence are the Greeks in Northern Epirus who have suffered for decades under communist Albania.

how hypocritical from the albanians here. They would always say "if you dont like Kosovo and dont want to follow our rules than leave" well take your own advice then, if you dont like Serbia and its rules, LEAVE, albania would gladly take you back.

Of course they do. Just like Serbs want part of Montenegro and Bosnia. Just like Croats want part of Bosnia and Vojvodina. Bulgarians want parts of Serbia, Greece and Macedonia. Hungarians want Vojodina and Transylvania. Greeks want Macedonia, parts of Bulgaria, Cyprus and Western Turkey. Everyone wants something in the Balkans. So this is not new news!

The primary reason for these types of questions to be raised at all are economic.
ie its known that the area is one of the poorest in Serbia historically - separate from the ethnic question.

But the reasons why the local Albanian leadership is raising this as a question is to extort money from Belgrade for 'investment' in the area. Of course this 'investment' will end up in the pockets of those leaders, their families and employees and various companies owned by these individuals.

These questions are invariably complicated by the fact that we have a failing political system - starting from the top.

It was chiefly failing political system that caused a critical mass to oppose the continuence of Jugoslavija. And it is the same failing political system causing so many problems in the lands of the former Jug today.

"With the biggest Serbian army barracks being just a few kilometres away Albanians have every right to feel uneasy."

- They should move if they don't like it. You people are insane if you think you will get any more land. The US is pushing for Serbia to get into the EU, and ties between the two are improving. We (US) already got Bondsteel, so there is no more reason to support Albanian terrorists from the US perspective. We have a saying in the US, it is "USA - Love it or Leave it." I suggest you Albanians should consider this before biting off more than you can chew in southern Serbia.

Still interested in splitting Kosovo?

They never do anything about economy, whereas Albanian mafia is gaining grounds in Europe and is becoming much more powerful than Italian one.

This may take a while but sooner or later Presevo Valley will join her motherland, Albania.

The Serbian government has to continue to reign in the radical Albanians in this area. If the facts show they have done war crimes, they need to be prosecuted. They do not live in Kosovo, where war crimes against Serbs, moderates, and other minorities is tolerated through non-prosecution by the EU, US, and NATO Countries.

If they break any laws at all, they need to be punished as everybody else.

This proposal to create a region is really just an attempt to create impunity from civilian laws and requirements that most western countries aggressively enforce and hold dear. Ones like: illegality of forced organ donations, the illegality of possessing and traficking heavy weapons and munitions, and illegality of people trafficking.

This is how Serbia lost Kosovo. They never learn their lesson.

Albanian minoritys in Serbia should have more than autonomy in Serbia and that is the minimum requariement from the albanians. Take this offer this time or Preshevo valley and sorrounding villegers will be independent.

They never do anything about economy, whereas Albanian mafia is gaining grounds in Europe and is becoming much more powerful than Italian one.
(Little Russia

As someone said it once:, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.
playing with fake bogeyman. This is not Russia!

Dear Bganon, Mike,
Saying that we can’t invest in the valley because the money is going to end up in pockets of local Albanians officials it’s just a simplistic justification. The responsibility for this enormous failure goes right at the top of Serbian state and contradicts what was agreed at Končulj in 2001.
A fraction of billions spend at the army barracks could have created thousands of jobs and small businesses. Instead Serbian state chose to send Albanians another strong message.
There is a theory among sceptical Albanians who believe that the valley is left in this sorry state on purpose. And it follows a logical link where, poverty ferments instability, instability is valuable tool to extremist elements on both sides. It serves better certain circles of Serbia’s political elite that rely on the notion of enemy within, maybe to justify military spending, army barracks or whatever. Judging from the comments here they seem to be in majority.
As long as Albanians as perceived as outsiders within Serbia they are well in their right to look for greater regionalism and international guarantees, after all it is the same thing that the Serbs are asking in Kosova.
You can’t deny to others what you are demanding for yourselves.

"The assembly called for the freeing of Albanians arrested in December 2008, accused of war crimes, or to have them processed by an international legal mechanism instead."

That's absolutely right,the Serbian efort of labeling Albanians as terrorist is getting harder swallow day by day,raiding houses,picking up people at any time the Serb police feel like it's pushing people to the limits.
Can anybody tell please what's happening with these people?
where's the evidence to keep these people in jail?
were's the video that is supose to be made public?
is there any,or is just another made up story to justify the opression the people there have to live with?
Looks like the politicians in Serbias heven't learn anything from milosevic,it backfired him what make them think that it will not happen to them looking as the things are going recently.

One of the main reasons they want it - and also why there was the explosion recently - is because it is key territory for their drug (and other) trafficking. Many rich and powerful traffickers live there and the Serbian police have recently arrested some key ones and endangered their trafficking.

This is how Serbia lost Kosovo. They never learn their lesson.

Albanian minoritys in Serbia should have more than autonomy in Serbia and that is the minimum requariement from the albanians. Take this offer this time or Preshevo valley and sorrounding villegers will be independent.
(Demi, 2 August 2009 15:31)

How many minorities in Europe have ANY autonomy???? Incl. Polish minority in Lithuania (EU member!!) or in Belorussia, or serb minority in Croatia??

Albanian minority in Yugoslavia had much more minority than today autonomous regions in european countries - but for them this level of autonomy was too small... I belive, that Serbia don't made similar nonsense as in 1974, because history show, that if albanian minority have more and more autonomy - they finally want "independence" and started ethnic cleansing (like in Kosovo in 80's) and terrorism. If Albanians in Serbia would be loyal citizens of their country (like Polish peoples in Lithuania, Czech Republic or Belorussia) - they can have autonomy. But Albanians won't be loyal citizens in countries where they live and they want to create one big Greater Albania.

Even those valley Albanian leaders who advocate cooperation with Serbia have a serious problem in squaring up a severely handicapped position within Serbia/ exclusion from important decision-making, with their role as minority and local representatives. Frequent tensions, chronic underinvestment and unemployment make the region highly receptive to instability. With the biggest Serbian army barracks being just a few kilometres away Albanians have every right to feel uneasy.
In this light their decentralisation request not only makes perfect sense but also goes in line with other decentralisation guidelines/ recommendations of the region, e.g. Macedonia, Kosova.

Drink Water,
According to DIA (Italian Directorate for Anti-Mafia Investigations) report:

- The Albanian mafia in Italy "has at its disposal a formidable network of accomplices and supporters used to squeal on members of rival groups and assist in assassinations."
- Putting down international roots: "The Albanian [mafia] groups operating abroad work in conditions of perfect criminal sophistication and territorial integration in the states where their members have been planted (Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland)". There is "a perfect osmosis between Albanian mafiosi residing in Italy and those living in their country of origin". We should note that certain "globalised" Albanian mafia clans are based outside the albanophone area, for example in Turkey.

- Unity of criminal law, competition for territory: "Groups active in Italy operate in competition and are often locked in a struggle with each other, reflecting the cleavages which exist in Albania".

- Centralisation of decision-making: "Murders committed in Italy are often a consequence of incidents which happen in Albania linked with the redistribution of the Italian, and therefore European, heroin market."

- Law of silence: "The very pronounced mafia character of the Albanian [criminal] associations follows equally from the behaviour of its members after an arrest. There is never, even in confidence, any revealing of the features of the group to which they belong. The response is unchanging: my [biological] family is in danger in Albania".

- Finance and money laundering: "The Albanian criminal groups show a remarkable aptitude in the matter of financial management and a theoretical ability to carry out recycling."

All the characteristics are definitely there. Albanian organised crime is a mafia, of the first rank.
http://www.xavier-raufer.com/english_5.php

I would think that the building of corridor 10 from Leskovac to Macedonia would be a good opportunity for the Presevo area. The increased traffic and all the construction jobs should be a boost.

However, ethnic strife and political problems can get in the way of this type of progress. The former Yugo poured millions of $$$ and effort to improving life in Kosovo and evan gave the Albanians an autonomous province, and yet we know what happened. Don't expect Serbs to make that mistake with Presevo.

In short, if Albanians want investment from Serbia than how about committing to and respecting the Serbian institutions. I don't think anybody in Serbia or anywhere else is going to invest in an area, which has this type of political volatility.

As far as any talk of a trade off or land swap involving Serbs and Albanians, I would say we are nowhere near that point because:
1. The international community will not let it happen at this point. (Maybe 40-50 years from now)

2. What's there to trade with Albanians? Serbs already control Presevo and North Kosovo, and we're already on the path to the EU.

3. Who would Serbs make a deal with? The Albanian leadership is mostly run by criminals of the worst sort.

“with the goal of instilling fear into the Albanian civil population.”

Exactly. Why did Serbs build a military base there? We know why.

But before Serb posters here accuse us of "Greater Albania" remember that there is something bigger at play: Jeremic has stopped saying ""We will never recognize...," and an American congressman (Dana Rohrabacher) said that an exchange of territories would be the best way to solve the situation.

Serbs voted for Tadic and EU, to get in EU you must certain things so Tadic is doing them. You can't complain, but stay tuned. The problem might be solved this way and then talks about pensions for K-Alb workers, war reparations, division of communist era property, debt etc can begin.

Free Northern Epirus NOW

The Greeks in Northern Epirus should rise for a struggle of Independence against the Albanian oppression.

21 comments on an article that's little more than 3 paragraphs and only village-bey and bganon's posts actually write about something tangible other than the "those Albanians want to take everything" or "independence for Presevo". Spare me.

Money quote: " Frequent tensions, chronic underinvestment and unemployment make the region highly receptive to instability. With the biggest Serbian army barracks being just a few kilometres away Albanians have every right to feel uneasy."

It's not the military barracks in question only, but rather the fact that the region is also heavily backwards and off the map of development. Plus, that it's a compacted area of one ethnic group with little history of cooperation with Serbs makes it a volatile area indeed. Let's not also mention that the region is very likely infested with radical elements from Kosovo Province that are bent on trying to instigate tension in the region as well - trying to stoke the Serbian government to harshly react, thus sparking another flare up. So the military presence is only salt in an already open wound.

No, the best solution is indeed investment and joint operations of improving the infrastructure of the region. But as bganon rightly points out, the failing political system will only place that investment money in the hands of corrupt officials. I'm quite sure there's enough elements in Presevo that would love to break away and would use any money to further their own ends (the part of seeking the freedom of alleged terrorists was cute), so we may need third-party monitoring.

It is a delicate situation, but one I foresee being simultaneously solved over time alongside the situation for Kosovo Serbs.

Just a couple of comments to add to this hot topic.

The first is that the Albanians in Presevo should take a trip around the BAlkans. Into Kosovo, the rest of Serbia, Bosnia and maybe Macedonia. Take a good look around. Life is exactly the same for EVERYONE in this region. Everyone is dirt poor with little in the way of economic prospects.

The second is that it wouldn't be a great idea to talk about secession from Serbia. Times have changed and Milosevic ios no longer in power, plus the fact that the US and EU have what they really want - coal in Kosovo (and for all the doubters about this being a priority take a look at the IMF website and it's report about the world's oil supplies and how they are running out fast). If the Albanians cause trouble I'm sure the Eu and US will say some strong words, but if fighting broke out Serbia would be left free to crush any insurrection. That's why a lot of the Albanian comments about Presevo being "freed" or swapped are ignorant and stupid. It shows a lack of understanding about the US and EU's strategic objectives in Kosovo. What would the EU and US gain by attacking Serbia again? It just shows the REAL reason why the "West" decided to try to separate Kosovo from Serbia. And if you think about it this is also the reason why the Albanians will never be allowed to break up Macedonia or allow it to join with Albania. It's too disruptive, so your US masters will just not allow it, and if you disobey them, they'll just sit back whilst Albania's neighbours give you a good kicking. This seems to be the only way any countries in the region seem to learn what the EU and US want.

So the Albanians should stop fantasising about some economic Utopia which isn't going to materialise (we're still in the credit crunch!!!!) and should stop thinking about greater albania, grerater kosovo, greater anything as there's nothing they can do about either.

P.S. "where's the evidence to keep these people in jail?
were's the video that is supose to be made public?"

I had to laugh when i read this though. I'm sure the Albanian who wrote this, like many others, don't understand the irony of this. They all keep claiming that it's the free world that gives their independence legitimacy. The free democratic world!! i.e the EU and US.

Ever heard of Guantanamo? The US detains "combatants" without trial for years on end - no trial, no communication with relatives, no legal advice.

Well, I suppose if we regard the US as the bastion of democracy then if what is said about Albanian detainees and Serbian police is true, the Albanians have niothing to complain about - we're following the example of the most "democratic" and "free" country in the world. What's your complaint now then?

I really thought that some Serb supporters will start beign concerned why a part of its citizens is feeling unsecure in White Schengen Serbia.
As I can see from the posts in here none are concerned to deal with it properly but they all opt for already proven failed option.
Time to think out of the box!!!

On 2 August 2009 20:24, Marios Vassiliou wrote:

"The Greeks in Northern Epirus should rise for a struggle of Independence against the Albanian oppression."

As long as the struggle takes place at the polls, I wholeheartedly support it.
--

The arrogance of the Albanians in second to no other nation in Europe.

And if they don't get what they want, they will resort to violence. We have seen this several times in the last few years. NO OTHER European peoples behave like this, aside from the Basques, who do not even have their own country, so their plight is more understandable.

Serbia should have no fear in arresting those people. They are a threat to national security and regional stability. I doubt the EU or even the US would back these separatists a second time.

“This is how Serbia lost Kosovo. They never learn their lesson. (Demi, 2 August 2009 15:31)”

So the current level or repression in Presevo is at the same level as what led the Albanians of Kosovo to declare independence?

While I’m sure its not an ideal situation for those that live there, I do not believe the level or repression is severe enough to warrant independence. A lot of minorities suffer a lot more (Kurds for example).

There’s a military barracks there because there was an armed insurgency, and attacks on the police and military continue.

Personally, I’d need more information to determine whether those arrested for earlier crimes deserve it or not. However, the fact that Serbia is prosecuting Serbs for crimes that were committed in that era says to me that Serbia is being even handed. If the sentences for Serbs and Albanians are drastically different for similar crimes, then I’ll agree with our Albanian posters here.

Also, when the Kosovo institutions or the Hague start prosecuting Albanians successfully then I’d support trying these Albanians in an international setting.

In addition, I’d be willing to trade Presevo for Pec\Decani or something similar. The reality is, what this is all about is trading the North of Kosovo for Presevo.

Unfortunately the UDI did not bring stability to the Balkans, and if the statements of some of the Albanians here are any indication, the changing of more borders is most certainly in store for the region.

Its time to reevaluate the borders in the region on an ethnic basis. Its time to bring the entire region into the EU in a way that does not dilute the voting rights of the Serbian or Albanian population.

We’re far too busy focusing on short term me me me goals. We need to look towards the future, we need to demand from the international community conditions beneficial for both Serbs and Albanians. We have exactly the same issues with our people divided amongst all the neighboring countries, why not work together to find a solution that benefits us both?

Too many short sighted individuals looking for revenge or immediate rewards. The region needs investment and stability in order to grow and prosper.

As it stands, divided as we are, we’re only going to be swallowed up by the bigger more powerful economies in the region.

WAKE UP!

Things are moving back to the originality and compatibility to old maps.

After Presevo valley, next is Janina large district to JOIN ALBANIA motherland.

Half of Macedonia can be divided at any time...so this is taken for granted.

The OLDEST nation of the Balkans, the Albanians, to get the place it deserves - THE RULER of Balkan region

PRN

You cannot be the "ruler" of the Balkans for three simple reasons:

1) You are too poor, Greece is the economic powerhouse of the Balkans, you have no economic clout, as every other country in the Balkans is richer than you.

2) You have no military strength to do so. The Greeks could occupy Albania in 2-3 days if they wanted to. Serbia's army is also strong, they can crush any insurgency in Presevo in several days (like they did in 2001).

3) Nobody will back you. Kosovo was the only time the Albanians were backed, Macedonia and Presevo Valley were not backed by the West in their insurgencies, and will not be backed again.

So stop talking nonsense. It will never happen.

Well, when Serbs wanted to create their enclaves in Kosova did they know that same thing will happen with Presheva Valley?. We all know how bad Belgrade supported that idea, how about support the same thing with Albanians there. You don't really have choice do you?. Let see how far belgrade is prepared to go since this is win-win situation for Albos there.

On 2 August 2009 18:52, Niklot, Poland asked:

"How many minorities in Europe have ANY autonomy????"

The Inuit in Greenland. Extended self-rule from Denmark.

The Faroe-people on the Faroe islands. Extended self-rule from Denmark.

The Aaland-people on Aaland. Extended self-rule from Sweden and Finland.

The Sami-people in Finland/Northern Sweden.

You see a pattern here? Wealthy, democratic societies do not fear self-rule or even secession and independence movements.

Now the question you have to ask yourself is this: Do wealth lead to democracy, or do democracy lead to wealth?

And then look at your own country and ask: What way should my country choose for the future?
--

"Free Northern Epirus NOW

The Greeks in Northern Epirus should rise for a struggle of Independence against the Albanian oppression."

I love how these "Greeks" show up here. Those 5 Greeks in Albania are now in Greece. Worry about Chameria, the Aegean islands and especially Cyprus, not Albania. That should keep you busy for the next...millennium. The Turks are breathing down your neck and you have ZERO friends.

We don't want nothing more or less than what belongs to us... And stop referring to Great Albania, it's Ethnic Albania.

P.S. We're coming out...

Oh let's help those 'poor' Albanians - they are so sweet!

I am just waiting for someone to say that Milosevic is the reason why they want to break away from Serbia.
There is always a reason isn't there for Albanians?
Albanians are a tool with which America is dismembering Seriba bit by bit. This is not going to stop and nobody in the west is going to see this as Albanan greed because they have given them the green light to do this.

Object is to dismember Serbia, so if any Serbs here think that Europe will see the error of their ways is not seeing well. This is the plan, because Serbia represents Russia to them.

Given how Serbia is using Serbs in Kosovo to destabilize the situation there, this action by Albanians in the Valley is not surprising. Kosovo government has had this card up their sleeves but it didn't use it because western governments were telling them they are working trying to convince Serbia not to sabotage Kosovo. Well U.S and U.K have given the Kosovo government to green light, so to speak,to use this card.Serbia getting some of its own medicine! Interesting that this is coming at the same time U.S Congressman Dana Rohrabaher is calling to Serbia and Kosovo to swap Presevo Valley with North Kosovo and call it peace.

They need to drink some more coffee and take a cold shower too...

@PRN

There will be no swap of land,NEVER !
We will occupy whole Kosovo and Northern Albania again,the Americans are getting weaker,Russians and Chinese stronger so it is only a matter of times when we will prevail completely.
Albanians chose the false side in WW1 with the Austrians and WW2 with Hitler and they lost.

2. What's there to trade with Albanians? Serbs already control Presevo and North Kosovo, and we're already on the path to the EU. Mr Kilinsman.


Multy personalities there sir, or a Froidian mistake?

Given how Serbia is using Serbs in Kosovo to destabilize the situation there, this action by Albanians in the Valley is not surprising. Kosovo government has had this card up their sleeves but it didn't use it because western governments were telling them they are working trying to convince Serbia not to sabotage Kosovo. Well U.S and U.K have given the Kosovo government to green light, so to speak,to use this card.Serbia getting some of its own medicine! Interesting that this is coming at the same time U.S Congressman Dana Rohrabaher is calling to Serbia and Kosovo to swap Presevo Valley with North Kosovo and call it peace.
(BalkanUpdate, 3 August 2009 11:28)

You are right, but how little the ordinary Serbs know about these things since Serb media and govermant hides the facts from them.

What would be the drawbacks of a PV region for a Serbia within the EU (which would rule out border changes in the future)?

A few days ago people here were making predictions about what adding Kosovo's Albanian population to Serbia would mean, demographically, over time. Maybe Serbs would prefer an Albanian minority whose influence would be essentially confined to one region, rather than influencing the entire country at the national level? They don't have to be a majority to do this, just a largish minority, prepared to work together with the people of the Vojvodina, Sandzhak, etc.

I think Ian summarized the situation pretty good in post #17.

Sad, but true.
--

If will be created autonomous Presevo Region - than must be created autonomous serbian region in Skadar in Albania ;)

Dont worry, there will never be another Kosovo again, Kosovo was a special case and look, most countries dont even recognize it, you think anyone would recognize an independent presevo valley and western northern macedonia? yeah right, only albania would recognize it like only russia recognizes abkazhia and south ossetia.it may be easy for some to think of kosovo's independence as justice with all the media's lies in the conflict, but no one in the west will sympathize with a greater islamic state in europe. the albanians feel empowered now because of kosovo, but after they fail in srbija and makedonija they will start leaving.

This is how Serbia lost Kosovo. They never learn their lesson.

Albanian minoritys in Serbia should have more than autonomy in Serbia and that is the minimum requariement from the albanians. Take this offer this time or Preshevo valley and sorrounding villegers will be independent.

This may take a while but sooner or later Presevo Valley will join her motherland, Albania.

Reading some of the comments from the Serbian panel here and should that be the Serbian official stance, it proves that Serbia has never been interested in solving any dispute by negotiations or peaceful means. That would mean trying to scare the Albanians living in Preseva, Bujanovc and Medvegja as they did in Kosova.

Even those valley Albanian leaders who advocate cooperation with Serbia have a serious problem in squaring up a severely handicapped position within Serbia/ exclusion from important decision-making, with their role as minority and local representatives. Frequent tensions, chronic underinvestment and unemployment make the region highly receptive to instability. With the biggest Serbian army barracks being just a few kilometres away Albanians have every right to feel uneasy.
In this light their decentralisation request not only makes perfect sense but also goes in line with other decentralisation guidelines/ recommendations of the region, e.g. Macedonia, Kosova.

They never do anything about economy, whereas Albanian mafia is gaining grounds in Europe and is becoming much more powerful than Italian one.

All terrorists will be arrested!

"The assembly called for the freeing of Albanians arrested in December 2008, accused of war crimes, or to have them processed by an international legal mechanism instead."

That's absolutely right,the Serbian efort of labeling Albanians as terrorist is getting harder swallow day by day,raiding houses,picking up people at any time the Serb police feel like it's pushing people to the limits.
Can anybody tell please what's happening with these people?
where's the evidence to keep these people in jail?
were's the video that is supose to be made public?
is there any,or is just another made up story to justify the opression the people there have to live with?
Looks like the politicians in Serbias heven't learn anything from milosevic,it backfired him what make them think that it will not happen to them looking as the things are going recently.

They never do anything about economy, whereas Albanian mafia is gaining grounds in Europe and is becoming much more powerful than Italian one.
(Little Russia

As someone said it once:, the only thing you have to fear is fear itself.
playing with fake bogeyman. This is not Russia!

The EU and US will not allow any more division of Serbia if they do its time the Serb goverment shows some backbone and put troops on the ground.

Hubris but sudden honesty in the Albanian camp, they smell greater Albania by the minutes. as long as nobody stops them it will be even greater...

"Run and grab as many hill tops as you can. What you dont take will go to them." Ariel Sharon.

And the story continues....Albanians want Presevo Valley, as they want Kosovo, Bosnia, and "their" part of Macedonia (FYROM). When is the world going to wake up and see the destructive nature of radical Albanians and Islam??? Why should Albanians (and Islam) wherever they live in the Balkans be the primary source for social unrest??? Realistically, every race and society has their own disruptive elements....but they also have their crowning elements, such as in sports, science, technology, etc. All people need discipline- both individual and societal- and they need to advance in life through their own efforts, not by constantly "expecting" aid from others, or with constant threats of force. Albanians SHOULD be together to work out their own lives and society- but NOT in a Balkan "Greater Albania"- just in their OWN country of Albania.

Its great the Albanian Muslims become even more unreasonable every day - now they want more land and for terrorists to be freed.

Europe is awakening to the Taliban in Kosovo and Bosnia.

Europe will understand that Serbia was and is the first line of defence against Islamic jihad.

The people who deserve independence are the Greeks in Northern Epirus who have suffered for decades under communist Albania.

This is how Serbia lost Kosovo. They never learn their lesson.

Albanian minoritys in Serbia should have more than autonomy in Serbia and that is the minimum requariement from the albanians. Take this offer this time or Preshevo valley and sorrounding villegers will be independent.
(Demi, 2 August 2009 15:31)

How many minorities in Europe have ANY autonomy???? Incl. Polish minority in Lithuania (EU member!!) or in Belorussia, or serb minority in Croatia??

Albanian minority in Yugoslavia had much more minority than today autonomous regions in european countries - but for them this level of autonomy was too small... I belive, that Serbia don't made similar nonsense as in 1974, because history show, that if albanian minority have more and more autonomy - they finally want "independence" and started ethnic cleansing (like in Kosovo in 80's) and terrorism. If Albanians in Serbia would be loyal citizens of their country (like Polish peoples in Lithuania, Czech Republic or Belorussia) - they can have autonomy. But Albanians won't be loyal citizens in countries where they live and they want to create one big Greater Albania.

“with the goal of instilling fear into the Albanian civil population.”

Exactly. Why did Serbs build a military base there? We know why.

But before Serb posters here accuse us of "Greater Albania" remember that there is something bigger at play: Jeremic has stopped saying ""We will never recognize...," and an American congressman (Dana Rohrabacher) said that an exchange of territories would be the best way to solve the situation.

Serbs voted for Tadic and EU, to get in EU you must certain things so Tadic is doing them. You can't complain, but stay tuned. The problem might be solved this way and then talks about pensions for K-Alb workers, war reparations, division of communist era property, debt etc can begin.

I really thought that some Serb supporters will start beign concerned why a part of its citizens is feeling unsecure in White Schengen Serbia.
As I can see from the posts in here none are concerned to deal with it properly but they all opt for already proven failed option.
Time to think out of the box!!!

Free Northern Epirus NOW

The Greeks in Northern Epirus should rise for a struggle of Independence against the Albanian oppression.

Still interested in splitting Kosovo?

Of course the Albanians want to take southern Serbia! This is not a surprise. Serbs only fight each other and play water polo.

Voijvodina is practically gone, thanks mr Tadic, so why not S Serbia?

The real Serbian government (which resides in the comforts of the US embassy in Belgrade ) will do nothing. Afterall, in the dream world called Serbia and the EU-national borders dont exist anymore-at least not for the highly misinformed and misguided Serbs-poor Serbs.

But dont be to upset my Serbian brothers, they will leave us a few crumbs.

So what are you waiting for Albanians? Get geraldo rivera on the phone and set up a few chairs down there in presovo. Get a few hundred Albanians and start circling Geraldo and his cameramen. The headlines will read hundreds of thousands of ethnic Albanians being ethnicly cleansed from Southern Serbia. CNN cant wait, neither can NATO. (and dont forget to mention the rape camps-CNN eats that one up)

Christianne Amanpour is waiting!

"With the biggest Serbian army barracks being just a few kilometres away Albanians have every right to feel uneasy."

- They should move if they don't like it. You people are insane if you think you will get any more land. The US is pushing for Serbia to get into the EU, and ties between the two are improving. We (US) already got Bondsteel, so there is no more reason to support Albanian terrorists from the US perspective. We have a saying in the US, it is "USA - Love it or Leave it." I suggest you Albanians should consider this before biting off more than you can chew in southern Serbia.

One of the main reasons they want it - and also why there was the explosion recently - is because it is key territory for their drug (and other) trafficking. Many rich and powerful traffickers live there and the Serbian police have recently arrested some key ones and endangered their trafficking.

I would think that the building of corridor 10 from Leskovac to Macedonia would be a good opportunity for the Presevo area. The increased traffic and all the construction jobs should be a boost.

However, ethnic strife and political problems can get in the way of this type of progress. The former Yugo poured millions of $$$ and effort to improving life in Kosovo and evan gave the Albanians an autonomous province, and yet we know what happened. Don't expect Serbs to make that mistake with Presevo.

In short, if Albanians want investment from Serbia than how about committing to and respecting the Serbian institutions. I don't think anybody in Serbia or anywhere else is going to invest in an area, which has this type of political volatility.

As far as any talk of a trade off or land swap involving Serbs and Albanians, I would say we are nowhere near that point because:
1. The international community will not let it happen at this point. (Maybe 40-50 years from now)

2. What's there to trade with Albanians? Serbs already control Presevo and North Kosovo, and we're already on the path to the EU.

3. Who would Serbs make a deal with? The Albanian leadership is mostly run by criminals of the worst sort.

Things are moving back to the originality and compatibility to old maps.

After Presevo valley, next is Janina large district to JOIN ALBANIA motherland.

Half of Macedonia can be divided at any time...so this is taken for granted.

The OLDEST nation of the Balkans, the Albanians, to get the place it deserves - THE RULER of Balkan region

Of course they do. Just like Serbs want part of Montenegro and Bosnia. Just like Croats want part of Bosnia and Vojvodina. Bulgarians want parts of Serbia, Greece and Macedonia. Hungarians want Vojodina and Transylvania. Greeks want Macedonia, parts of Bulgaria, Cyprus and Western Turkey. Everyone wants something in the Balkans. So this is not new news!

Drink Water,
According to DIA (Italian Directorate for Anti-Mafia Investigations) report:

- The Albanian mafia in Italy "has at its disposal a formidable network of accomplices and supporters used to squeal on members of rival groups and assist in assassinations."
- Putting down international roots: "The Albanian [mafia] groups operating abroad work in conditions of perfect criminal sophistication and territorial integration in the states where their members have been planted (Germany, Spain, Italy, the Netherlands, Switzerland)". There is "a perfect osmosis between Albanian mafiosi residing in Italy and those living in their country of origin". We should note that certain "globalised" Albanian mafia clans are based outside the albanophone area, for example in Turkey.

- Unity of criminal law, competition for territory: "Groups active in Italy operate in competition and are often locked in a struggle with each other, reflecting the cleavages which exist in Albania".

- Centralisation of decision-making: "Murders committed in Italy are often a consequence of incidents which happen in Albania linked with the redistribution of the Italian, and therefore European, heroin market."

- Law of silence: "The very pronounced mafia character of the Albanian [criminal] associations follows equally from the behaviour of its members after an arrest. There is never, even in confidence, any revealing of the features of the group to which they belong. The response is unchanging: my [biological] family is in danger in Albania".

- Finance and money laundering: "The Albanian criminal groups show a remarkable aptitude in the matter of financial management and a theoretical ability to carry out recycling."

All the characteristics are definitely there. Albanian organised crime is a mafia, of the first rank.
http://www.xavier-raufer.com/english_5.php

The Serbian government has to continue to reign in the radical Albanians in this area. If the facts show they have done war crimes, they need to be prosecuted. They do not live in Kosovo, where war crimes against Serbs, moderates, and other minorities is tolerated through non-prosecution by the EU, US, and NATO Countries.

If they break any laws at all, they need to be punished as everybody else.

This proposal to create a region is really just an attempt to create impunity from civilian laws and requirements that most western countries aggressively enforce and hold dear. Ones like: illegality of forced organ donations, the illegality of possessing and traficking heavy weapons and munitions, and illegality of people trafficking.

how hypocritical from the albanians here. They would always say "if you dont like Kosovo and dont want to follow our rules than leave" well take your own advice then, if you dont like Serbia and its rules, LEAVE, albania would gladly take you back.

Given how Serbia is using Serbs in Kosovo to destabilize the situation there, this action by Albanians in the Valley is not surprising. Kosovo government has had this card up their sleeves but it didn't use it because western governments were telling them they are working trying to convince Serbia not to sabotage Kosovo. Well U.S and U.K have given the Kosovo government to green light, so to speak,to use this card.Serbia getting some of its own medicine! Interesting that this is coming at the same time U.S Congressman Dana Rohrabaher is calling to Serbia and Kosovo to swap Presevo Valley with North Kosovo and call it peace.

The arrogance of the Albanians in second to no other nation in Europe.

And if they don't get what they want, they will resort to violence. We have seen this several times in the last few years. NO OTHER European peoples behave like this, aside from the Basques, who do not even have their own country, so their plight is more understandable.

Serbia should have no fear in arresting those people. They are a threat to national security and regional stability. I doubt the EU or even the US would back these separatists a second time.

Dear Bganon, Mike,
Saying that we can’t invest in the valley because the money is going to end up in pockets of local Albanians officials it’s just a simplistic justification. The responsibility for this enormous failure goes right at the top of Serbian state and contradicts what was agreed at Končulj in 2001.
A fraction of billions spend at the army barracks could have created thousands of jobs and small businesses. Instead Serbian state chose to send Albanians another strong message.
There is a theory among sceptical Albanians who believe that the valley is left in this sorry state on purpose. And it follows a logical link where, poverty ferments instability, instability is valuable tool to extremist elements on both sides. It serves better certain circles of Serbia’s political elite that rely on the notion of enemy within, maybe to justify military spending, army barracks or whatever. Judging from the comments here they seem to be in majority.
As long as Albanians as perceived as outsiders within Serbia they are well in their right to look for greater regionalism and international guarantees, after all it is the same thing that the Serbs are asking in Kosova.
You can’t deny to others what you are demanding for yourselves.

"Free Northern Epirus NOW

The Greeks in Northern Epirus should rise for a struggle of Independence against the Albanian oppression."

I love how these "Greeks" show up here. Those 5 Greeks in Albania are now in Greece. Worry about Chameria, the Aegean islands and especially Cyprus, not Albania. That should keep you busy for the next...millennium. The Turks are breathing down your neck and you have ZERO friends.

2. What's there to trade with Albanians? Serbs already control Presevo and North Kosovo, and we're already on the path to the EU. Mr Kilinsman.


Multy personalities there sir, or a Froidian mistake?

Oh let's help those 'poor' Albanians - they are so sweet!

I am just waiting for someone to say that Milosevic is the reason why they want to break away from Serbia.
There is always a reason isn't there for Albanians?
Albanians are a tool with which America is dismembering Seriba bit by bit. This is not going to stop and nobody in the west is going to see this as Albanan greed because they have given them the green light to do this.

Object is to dismember Serbia, so if any Serbs here think that Europe will see the error of their ways is not seeing well. This is the plan, because Serbia represents Russia to them.

Well, when Serbs wanted to create their enclaves in Kosova did they know that same thing will happen with Presheva Valley?. We all know how bad Belgrade supported that idea, how about support the same thing with Albanians there. You don't really have choice do you?. Let see how far belgrade is prepared to go since this is win-win situation for Albos there.

Given how Serbia is using Serbs in Kosovo to destabilize the situation there, this action by Albanians in the Valley is not surprising. Kosovo government has had this card up their sleeves but it didn't use it because western governments were telling them they are working trying to convince Serbia not to sabotage Kosovo. Well U.S and U.K have given the Kosovo government to green light, so to speak,to use this card.Serbia getting some of its own medicine! Interesting that this is coming at the same time U.S Congressman Dana Rohrabaher is calling to Serbia and Kosovo to swap Presevo Valley with North Kosovo and call it peace.
(BalkanUpdate, 3 August 2009 11:28)

You are right, but how little the ordinary Serbs know about these things since Serb media and govermant hides the facts from them.

21 comments on an article that's little more than 3 paragraphs and only village-bey and bganon's posts actually write about something tangible other than the "those Albanians want to take everything" or "independence for Presevo". Spare me.

Money quote: " Frequent tensions, chronic underinvestment and unemployment make the region highly receptive to instability. With the biggest Serbian army barracks being just a few kilometres away Albanians have every right to feel uneasy."

It's not the military barracks in question only, but rather the fact that the region is also heavily backwards and off the map of development. Plus, that it's a compacted area of one ethnic group with little history of cooperation with Serbs makes it a volatile area indeed. Let's not also mention that the region is very likely infested with radical elements from Kosovo Province that are bent on trying to instigate tension in the region as well - trying to stoke the Serbian government to harshly react, thus sparking another flare up. So the military presence is only salt in an already open wound.

No, the best solution is indeed investment and joint operations of improving the infrastructure of the region. But as bganon rightly points out, the failing political system will only place that investment money in the hands of corrupt officials. I'm quite sure there's enough elements in Presevo that would love to break away and would use any money to further their own ends (the part of seeking the freedom of alleged terrorists was cute), so we may need third-party monitoring.

It is a delicate situation, but one I foresee being simultaneously solved over time alongside the situation for Kosovo Serbs.

The primary reason for these types of questions to be raised at all are economic.
ie its known that the area is one of the poorest in Serbia historically - separate from the ethnic question.

But the reasons why the local Albanian leadership is raising this as a question is to extort money from Belgrade for 'investment' in the area. Of course this 'investment' will end up in the pockets of those leaders, their families and employees and various companies owned by these individuals.

These questions are invariably complicated by the fact that we have a failing political system - starting from the top.

It was chiefly failing political system that caused a critical mass to oppose the continuence of Jugoslavija. And it is the same failing political system causing so many problems in the lands of the former Jug today.

We don't want nothing more or less than what belongs to us... And stop referring to Great Albania, it's Ethnic Albania.

P.S. We're coming out...

Just a couple of comments to add to this hot topic.

The first is that the Albanians in Presevo should take a trip around the BAlkans. Into Kosovo, the rest of Serbia, Bosnia and maybe Macedonia. Take a good look around. Life is exactly the same for EVERYONE in this region. Everyone is dirt poor with little in the way of economic prospects.

The second is that it wouldn't be a great idea to talk about secession from Serbia. Times have changed and Milosevic ios no longer in power, plus the fact that the US and EU have what they really want - coal in Kosovo (and for all the doubters about this being a priority take a look at the IMF website and it's report about the world's oil supplies and how they are running out fast). If the Albanians cause trouble I'm sure the Eu and US will say some strong words, but if fighting broke out Serbia would be left free to crush any insurrection. That's why a lot of the Albanian comments about Presevo being "freed" or swapped are ignorant and stupid. It shows a lack of understanding about the US and EU's strategic objectives in Kosovo. What would the EU and US gain by attacking Serbia again? It just shows the REAL reason why the "West" decided to try to separate Kosovo from Serbia. And if you think about it this is also the reason why the Albanians will never be allowed to break up Macedonia or allow it to join with Albania. It's too disruptive, so your US masters will just not allow it, and if you disobey them, they'll just sit back whilst Albania's neighbours give you a good kicking. This seems to be the only way any countries in the region seem to learn what the EU and US want.

So the Albanians should stop fantasising about some economic Utopia which isn't going to materialise (we're still in the credit crunch!!!!) and should stop thinking about greater albania, grerater kosovo, greater anything as there's nothing they can do about either.

P.S. "where's the evidence to keep these people in jail?
were's the video that is supose to be made public?"

I had to laugh when i read this though. I'm sure the Albanian who wrote this, like many others, don't understand the irony of this. They all keep claiming that it's the free world that gives their independence legitimacy. The free democratic world!! i.e the EU and US.

Ever heard of Guantanamo? The US detains "combatants" without trial for years on end - no trial, no communication with relatives, no legal advice.

Well, I suppose if we regard the US as the bastion of democracy then if what is said about Albanian detainees and Serbian police is true, the Albanians have niothing to complain about - we're following the example of the most "democratic" and "free" country in the world. What's your complaint now then?

They need to drink some more coffee and take a cold shower too...

@PRN

There will be no swap of land,NEVER !
We will occupy whole Kosovo and Northern Albania again,the Americans are getting weaker,Russians and Chinese stronger so it is only a matter of times when we will prevail completely.
Albanians chose the false side in WW1 with the Austrians and WW2 with Hitler and they lost.

On 2 August 2009 20:24, Marios Vassiliou wrote:

"The Greeks in Northern Epirus should rise for a struggle of Independence against the Albanian oppression."

As long as the struggle takes place at the polls, I wholeheartedly support it.
--

“This is how Serbia lost Kosovo. They never learn their lesson. (Demi, 2 August 2009 15:31)”

So the current level or repression in Presevo is at the same level as what led the Albanians of Kosovo to declare independence?

While I’m sure its not an ideal situation for those that live there, I do not believe the level or repression is severe enough to warrant independence. A lot of minorities suffer a lot more (Kurds for example).

There’s a military barracks there because there was an armed insurgency, and attacks on the police and military continue.

Personally, I’d need more information to determine whether those arrested for earlier crimes deserve it or not. However, the fact that Serbia is prosecuting Serbs for crimes that were committed in that era says to me that Serbia is being even handed. If the sentences for Serbs and Albanians are drastically different for similar crimes, then I’ll agree with our Albanian posters here.

Also, when the Kosovo institutions or the Hague start prosecuting Albanians successfully then I’d support trying these Albanians in an international setting.

In addition, I’d be willing to trade Presevo for Pec\Decani or something similar. The reality is, what this is all about is trading the North of Kosovo for Presevo.

Unfortunately the UDI did not bring stability to the Balkans, and if the statements of some of the Albanians here are any indication, the changing of more borders is most certainly in store for the region.

Its time to reevaluate the borders in the region on an ethnic basis. Its time to bring the entire region into the EU in a way that does not dilute the voting rights of the Serbian or Albanian population.

We’re far too busy focusing on short term me me me goals. We need to look towards the future, we need to demand from the international community conditions beneficial for both Serbs and Albanians. We have exactly the same issues with our people divided amongst all the neighboring countries, why not work together to find a solution that benefits us both?

Too many short sighted individuals looking for revenge or immediate rewards. The region needs investment and stability in order to grow and prosper.

As it stands, divided as we are, we’re only going to be swallowed up by the bigger more powerful economies in the region.

WAKE UP!

PRN

You cannot be the "ruler" of the Balkans for three simple reasons:

1) You are too poor, Greece is the economic powerhouse of the Balkans, you have no economic clout, as every other country in the Balkans is richer than you.

2) You have no military strength to do so. The Greeks could occupy Albania in 2-3 days if they wanted to. Serbia's army is also strong, they can crush any insurgency in Presevo in several days (like they did in 2001).

3) Nobody will back you. Kosovo was the only time the Albanians were backed, Macedonia and Presevo Valley were not backed by the West in their insurgencies, and will not be backed again.

So stop talking nonsense. It will never happen.

I think Ian summarized the situation pretty good in post #17.

Sad, but true.
--

What would be the drawbacks of a PV region for a Serbia within the EU (which would rule out border changes in the future)?

A few days ago people here were making predictions about what adding Kosovo's Albanian population to Serbia would mean, demographically, over time. Maybe Serbs would prefer an Albanian minority whose influence would be essentially confined to one region, rather than influencing the entire country at the national level? They don't have to be a majority to do this, just a largish minority, prepared to work together with the people of the Vojvodina, Sandzhak, etc.

If will be created autonomous Presevo Region - than must be created autonomous serbian region in Skadar in Albania ;)

On 2 August 2009 18:52, Niklot, Poland asked:

"How many minorities in Europe have ANY autonomy????"

The Inuit in Greenland. Extended self-rule from Denmark.

The Faroe-people on the Faroe islands. Extended self-rule from Denmark.

The Aaland-people on Aaland. Extended self-rule from Sweden and Finland.

The Sami-people in Finland/Northern Sweden.

You see a pattern here? Wealthy, democratic societies do not fear self-rule or even secession and independence movements.

Now the question you have to ask yourself is this: Do wealth lead to democracy, or do democracy lead to wealth?

And then look at your own country and ask: What way should my country choose for the future?
--

Dont worry, there will never be another Kosovo again, Kosovo was a special case and look, most countries dont even recognize it, you think anyone would recognize an independent presevo valley and western northern macedonia? yeah right, only albania would recognize it like only russia recognizes abkazhia and south ossetia.it may be easy for some to think of kosovo's independence as justice with all the media's lies in the conflict, but no one in the west will sympathize with a greater islamic state in europe. the albanians feel empowered now because of kosovo, but after they fail in srbija and makedonija they will start leaving.