U.S., China pledge more economic, political cooperation

If China alone decides to "cash in its assets" what will happen is that the dollar will fall and the rembimbi will rise. Meaning that China will receive a fraction of the value of its holdings. Ok, say they can live with that, just to indulge their spite. Then, with a weak dollar, the U.S. will become the exporting champion of the world, since they'll still have the quality the Chinese haven't yet developed and low prices as well. So how will China keep its people employed then, with no export market? Sell to each other? 2/3 of their people still live in poverty. The U.S. market is the size of the Chinese, Japanese, British, French, and German markets combined - do you think the Chinese want to see that disappear, for them?"
Joe

If we take your scenario have you imagined what will happen to energy prices and those of other raw materials that US imports?
Firstly in such an event i cannot see any OPEC country valueing oil in $ and accepting $ as means of exchange.
Higher import prices will also lead to higher industry costs and not cheaper as you allege.Therefore your exports
(whatever is left of them) will be dearer and unable to export.

Secondly, any fall in the value of Chinese held assets will bring US treasury to a standstill because no country will lend the US to finance its current and trade deficits.

You & I we had those exchanges before and if you go back to my postings of over a year ago you will see that i was right about the seriousness of the economic crisis whereas you thought it will be a passing event.

No matter what you say about China the thuth is it is the second largest economy in the world and all this has been achieved in the last 30 years.

You think they are so poor but still able to lend $850 billion to US and still have
$2 trillion in reserves( not all in $).Life expectancy has increased from 35 in 1949 to 75 in 2007.They're so poor but they can travel in trains at 350km speed.

Hillary Clinton and Tim Geitner didn't go to Peking for DIM SUM but rather with a begging bowl asking the hated communists to fill it up.

Geitner and Bernake cannot fool the Chinese any longer about the health of the US economy.By continuing to print dollars to finance current liabilities they store huge problems for the future.

America is incredibly fragile: Tens of millions out of work, with only the flimsiest welfare net. Tens of millions with no health coverage, at all. Tens of millions functionally illiterate. Crumbling infrastructure. Vast military budget. More debt than the human mind can apprehend

The calamity will only be realized when creditors like China and the Arabs decide to cash on their assets. But then again there will be deals made and the malignant narcissists, chronic scape-goaters, uncorrectable grab baggers, with coercion, reckless abandon and impunity sacrifice some hundred million innocent, poor, ignorant and on the lower end of social scale ,for the cycle to repeat it self, as has been far too long.

'The calamity will only be realized when creditors like China and the Arabs decide to cash on their assets. '

If China alone decides to "cash in its assets" what will happen is that the dollar will fall and the rembimbi will rise. Meaning that China will receive a fraction of the value of its holdings. Ok, say they can live with that, just to indulge their spite. Then, with a weak dollar, the U.S. will become the exporting champion of the world, since they'll still have the quality the Chinese haven't yet developed and low prices as well. So how will China keep its people employed then, with no export market? Sell to each other? 2/3 of their people still live in poverty. The U.S. market is the size of the Chinese, Japanese, British, French, and German markets combined - do you think the Chinese want to see that disappear, for them?

And then there's the demographics - China is set to become an "old" nation starting in a few years, with more old people to be supported than young people to work. (The one-child policy, remember?) To handle this situation, they're going to have to get rich fast, so fewer workers will be able to support excess elderly. They don't have time to play games with the dollar.

On the whole, I prefer the set of problems the U.S. is facing. They're big, but we have the resources to deal with them.

leonidas,
Thanks for enlightening me on my surroundings.
You feed too much in the media.
Several things are a little disillusional and can be manipulated.
US has a huge debt it is true and it is concerning, but the US economy is strong. We could probably recoup that debt in a couple of years by cutting off our charity work to many struggling countries (how much to Serbia that could go to replenish the US bottom line). 22%of the UN general budget and even higher finance percent for projects is paid for by US. 22 is the highest allowed by UN charter.
As far as health care goes, it is big in the news right now. Reality on the ground: No one in America is denied essential healthcare. No hospital which receives govt payments (99.9%) cannot turn a patient away for inability to pay.
The flimsy welfare net is laughable. (one of the biggest problems with the economy).
But the key point,The world economy is dependent on the success of the US right now. The financial collapse of the US (which apparently you and so many others here pray for) would cause a ripple effect with most smaller countries crumbling and being absorbed by their neighbors.
NO country is independently wealthy. Those with huge natural resources are dependent on foreign countries to purchase those commodities.
You can wish for a change in US policy or better work toward that goal but if you should you pin all hopes on the financial collapse of the US the effects on you personally will be more than you can ever imagine.
B92 reported that Serbia is avoiding bankruptcy through the IMF loan-this was caused as a ripple of the minor recession in the US, but more important where do you think the majority of that loan is going to come from.

Dear Joe,

We do not, and will not allow comments that contain personal insults aimed at other posters.

Regards,


B92

pss

On the contrary, delusion comes from people who deny reality and live in a cyberspace.

The director of TAPS in US only last week admitted that the national debt could be as high as $23 trillion.That is aproximately 180% of current GDP.can you enlighten us how you can recoup this debt in a couple of years?The amounts you quote that US spends on charity and UN operations is peanuts to your overall national debt.

Nobody wants to see the collapse of the US economy but your assertion that the world depends on the US is far away from the truth.

You must've heard that China and Japan are converting $ billions of their reserves into other currencies.Even the French and the Germans have called for the replacement of the dollar as a world currency.I am not saying this will happen tomorrow but the process has already started.

No stimulus can correct a deceased economy.The US grew in the last 10 years because the US consumer borrowed heavily.Since they stopped the US economy is correcting of its false growth of recent years.The US goverment
will continue to borrow and create a compensating growth temporarilly but it will all end in tears.

The only way the US economy will ever improve is to flush out all the Mantofs of the Wall Street and as a starting point it will be an audit of the Federal Reserve.
The Wall Street crooks are hiding behind the obsfuscations of the banking scam and are looting the US taxpayers and the rest of the world.The same people won't stop at anything unless
they're uprooted from the system.Does anybody wonder why Ben Bernake is totally opposed to such an audit claiming it would lead to the collapse of the US economy?He clearly knows something he doesn't want the rest of the world to find out.It could be the roumours of the exposure of US banks and financial institutions in the derivatives market to the tune of $ 300 trillion may bear some truth.

Either way things could never be the same again.There is a shift of power to the East and this will continue in the immediate future.

"If China alone decides to "cash in its assets" what will happen is that the dollar will fall and the rembimbi will rise. Meaning that China will receive a fraction of the value of its holdings. Ok, say they can live with that, just to indulge their spite. Then, with a weak dollar, the U.S. will become the exporting champion of the world, since they'll still have the quality the Chinese haven't yet developed and low prices as well. So how will China keep its people employed then, with no export market? Sell to each other? 2/3 of their people still live in poverty. The U.S. market is the size of the Chinese, Japanese, British, French, and German markets combined - do you think the Chinese want to see that disappear, for them?"

Amer, you are right. I already pointed this out to Leonidas few times but he does not take it because as a result he would have to alter his doomsday "theories".
By the way I also commented on pss's post. Will we see it?
Sometimes I get the impression that B92 does't allow postings not in agreement with Leonidas' ones.

Leonidas,

Thank you for showing me the light! I am really embarassed for having been so ignorant about China for such a long time. That country is already a half paradise - versus hopeless future in the US.
I should convince my wife to give up my high-paying Wall Street job and move to China.

Joe says..."I should convince my wife to give up my high-paying Wall Street job and move to China"


Some good advice for you Joe...
"We acknowledge that we should not talk of our wives; but we seem not to know that we should talk still less of ourselves."
Rochefoucauld

Guys guys guys. Global economics is no longer a case of absolute gains or losses. If the US sinks, it's taking China with them. We all speak as if "national" economies are hermetically sealed.

"Hillary Clinton and Tim Geitner didn't go to Peking for DIM SUM but rather with a begging bowl asking the hated communists to fill it up.
(Leonidas, 29 July 2009 20:27)"

I agree with you 100%!

As for those American or pro-US posters here who claimed to be waiting with bated breath for the day the US greenback collapses .... well, I am with you for once. However you might want to find out what happened to Zimbawe when its dollar became the latest banana currency of the world.

"U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said China shares U.S. concerns about the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran."

That's what the Chinese tell her out of diplomatic courtesy. I don't think Beijing (and Moscow) is particularly upset about Tehran being another millstone around the USA's neck.

'You & I we had those exchanges before and if you go back to my postings of over a year ago you will see that i was right about the seriousness of the economic crisis whereas you thought it will be a passing event. '

Sorry, I don't remember the previous exchanges, but in any case the crisis is a passing event - things are improving even as we write. Remember, recessions are part of the business cycle - we go through them periodically. The vast majority of them last a year or less, almost all of the rest are over in two. Unfortunately, unemployment is usually one of the last indicators to improve, so things feel bad for longer than this, but eventually every recession is followed by a period of higher-than-average growth.

leonidas,
Thanks for enlightening me on my surroundings.
You feed too much in the media.
Several things are a little disillusional and can be manipulated.
US has a huge debt it is true and it is concerning, but the US economy is strong. We could probably recoup that debt in a couple of years by cutting off our charity work to many struggling countries (how much to Serbia that could go to replenish the US bottom line). 22%of the UN general budget and even higher finance percent for projects is paid for by US. 22 is the highest allowed by UN charter.
As far as health care goes, it is big in the news right now. Reality on the ground: No one in America is denied essential healthcare. No hospital which receives govt payments (99.9%) cannot turn a patient away for inability to pay.
The flimsy welfare net is laughable. (one of the biggest problems with the economy).
But the key point,The world economy is dependent on the success of the US right now. The financial collapse of the US (which apparently you and so many others here pray for) would cause a ripple effect with most smaller countries crumbling and being absorbed by their neighbors.
NO country is independently wealthy. Those with huge natural resources are dependent on foreign countries to purchase those commodities.
You can wish for a change in US policy or better work toward that goal but if you should you pin all hopes on the financial collapse of the US the effects on you personally will be more than you can ever imagine.
B92 reported that Serbia is avoiding bankruptcy through the IMF loan-this was caused as a ripple of the minor recession in the US, but more important where do you think the majority of that loan is going to come from.

"If China alone decides to "cash in its assets" what will happen is that the dollar will fall and the rembimbi will rise. Meaning that China will receive a fraction of the value of its holdings. Ok, say they can live with that, just to indulge their spite. Then, with a weak dollar, the U.S. will become the exporting champion of the world, since they'll still have the quality the Chinese haven't yet developed and low prices as well. So how will China keep its people employed then, with no export market? Sell to each other? 2/3 of their people still live in poverty. The U.S. market is the size of the Chinese, Japanese, British, French, and German markets combined - do you think the Chinese want to see that disappear, for them?"

Amer, you are right. I already pointed this out to Leonidas few times but he does not take it because as a result he would have to alter his doomsday "theories".
By the way I also commented on pss's post. Will we see it?
Sometimes I get the impression that B92 does't allow postings not in agreement with Leonidas' ones.

'The calamity will only be realized when creditors like China and the Arabs decide to cash on their assets. '

If China alone decides to "cash in its assets" what will happen is that the dollar will fall and the rembimbi will rise. Meaning that China will receive a fraction of the value of its holdings. Ok, say they can live with that, just to indulge their spite. Then, with a weak dollar, the U.S. will become the exporting champion of the world, since they'll still have the quality the Chinese haven't yet developed and low prices as well. So how will China keep its people employed then, with no export market? Sell to each other? 2/3 of their people still live in poverty. The U.S. market is the size of the Chinese, Japanese, British, French, and German markets combined - do you think the Chinese want to see that disappear, for them?

And then there's the demographics - China is set to become an "old" nation starting in a few years, with more old people to be supported than young people to work. (The one-child policy, remember?) To handle this situation, they're going to have to get rich fast, so fewer workers will be able to support excess elderly. They don't have time to play games with the dollar.

On the whole, I prefer the set of problems the U.S. is facing. They're big, but we have the resources to deal with them.

Leonidas,

Thank you for showing me the light! I am really embarassed for having been so ignorant about China for such a long time. That country is already a half paradise - versus hopeless future in the US.
I should convince my wife to give up my high-paying Wall Street job and move to China.

Guys guys guys. Global economics is no longer a case of absolute gains or losses. If the US sinks, it's taking China with them. We all speak as if "national" economies are hermetically sealed.

Geitner and Bernake cannot fool the Chinese any longer about the health of the US economy.By continuing to print dollars to finance current liabilities they store huge problems for the future.

America is incredibly fragile: Tens of millions out of work, with only the flimsiest welfare net. Tens of millions with no health coverage, at all. Tens of millions functionally illiterate. Crumbling infrastructure. Vast military budget. More debt than the human mind can apprehend

The calamity will only be realized when creditors like China and the Arabs decide to cash on their assets. But then again there will be deals made and the malignant narcissists, chronic scape-goaters, uncorrectable grab baggers, with coercion, reckless abandon and impunity sacrifice some hundred million innocent, poor, ignorant and on the lower end of social scale ,for the cycle to repeat it self, as has been far too long.

pss

On the contrary, delusion comes from people who deny reality and live in a cyberspace.

The director of TAPS in US only last week admitted that the national debt could be as high as $23 trillion.That is aproximately 180% of current GDP.can you enlighten us how you can recoup this debt in a couple of years?The amounts you quote that US spends on charity and UN operations is peanuts to your overall national debt.

Nobody wants to see the collapse of the US economy but your assertion that the world depends on the US is far away from the truth.

You must've heard that China and Japan are converting $ billions of their reserves into other currencies.Even the French and the Germans have called for the replacement of the dollar as a world currency.I am not saying this will happen tomorrow but the process has already started.

No stimulus can correct a deceased economy.The US grew in the last 10 years because the US consumer borrowed heavily.Since they stopped the US economy is correcting of its false growth of recent years.The US goverment
will continue to borrow and create a compensating growth temporarilly but it will all end in tears.

The only way the US economy will ever improve is to flush out all the Mantofs of the Wall Street and as a starting point it will be an audit of the Federal Reserve.
The Wall Street crooks are hiding behind the obsfuscations of the banking scam and are looting the US taxpayers and the rest of the world.The same people won't stop at anything unless
they're uprooted from the system.Does anybody wonder why Ben Bernake is totally opposed to such an audit claiming it would lead to the collapse of the US economy?He clearly knows something he doesn't want the rest of the world to find out.It could be the roumours of the exposure of US banks and financial institutions in the derivatives market to the tune of $ 300 trillion may bear some truth.

Either way things could never be the same again.There is a shift of power to the East and this will continue in the immediate future.

Dear Joe,

We do not, and will not allow comments that contain personal insults aimed at other posters.

Regards,


B92

'You & I we had those exchanges before and if you go back to my postings of over a year ago you will see that i was right about the seriousness of the economic crisis whereas you thought it will be a passing event. '

Sorry, I don't remember the previous exchanges, but in any case the crisis is a passing event - things are improving even as we write. Remember, recessions are part of the business cycle - we go through them periodically. The vast majority of them last a year or less, almost all of the rest are over in two. Unfortunately, unemployment is usually one of the last indicators to improve, so things feel bad for longer than this, but eventually every recession is followed by a period of higher-than-average growth.

Joe says..."I should convince my wife to give up my high-paying Wall Street job and move to China"


Some good advice for you Joe...
"We acknowledge that we should not talk of our wives; but we seem not to know that we should talk still less of ourselves."
Rochefoucauld

If China alone decides to "cash in its assets" what will happen is that the dollar will fall and the rembimbi will rise. Meaning that China will receive a fraction of the value of its holdings. Ok, say they can live with that, just to indulge their spite. Then, with a weak dollar, the U.S. will become the exporting champion of the world, since they'll still have the quality the Chinese haven't yet developed and low prices as well. So how will China keep its people employed then, with no export market? Sell to each other? 2/3 of their people still live in poverty. The U.S. market is the size of the Chinese, Japanese, British, French, and German markets combined - do you think the Chinese want to see that disappear, for them?"
Joe

If we take your scenario have you imagined what will happen to energy prices and those of other raw materials that US imports?
Firstly in such an event i cannot see any OPEC country valueing oil in $ and accepting $ as means of exchange.
Higher import prices will also lead to higher industry costs and not cheaper as you allege.Therefore your exports
(whatever is left of them) will be dearer and unable to export.

Secondly, any fall in the value of Chinese held assets will bring US treasury to a standstill because no country will lend the US to finance its current and trade deficits.

You & I we had those exchanges before and if you go back to my postings of over a year ago you will see that i was right about the seriousness of the economic crisis whereas you thought it will be a passing event.

No matter what you say about China the thuth is it is the second largest economy in the world and all this has been achieved in the last 30 years.

You think they are so poor but still able to lend $850 billion to US and still have
$2 trillion in reserves( not all in $).Life expectancy has increased from 35 in 1949 to 75 in 2007.They're so poor but they can travel in trains at 350km speed.

Hillary Clinton and Tim Geitner didn't go to Peking for DIM SUM but rather with a begging bowl asking the hated communists to fill it up.

"U.S. Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said China shares U.S. concerns about the prospect of a nuclear-armed Iran."

That's what the Chinese tell her out of diplomatic courtesy. I don't think Beijing (and Moscow) is particularly upset about Tehran being another millstone around the USA's neck.

"Hillary Clinton and Tim Geitner didn't go to Peking for DIM SUM but rather with a begging bowl asking the hated communists to fill it up.
(Leonidas, 29 July 2009 20:27)"

I agree with you 100%!

As for those American or pro-US posters here who claimed to be waiting with bated breath for the day the US greenback collapses .... well, I am with you for once. However you might want to find out what happened to Zimbawe when its dollar became the latest banana currency of the world.