K. Serb leaders deplore "visa humiliation"

At this point it we can clearly say that Serbia is the 63rd country to recognize Kosovo as an independent state.
Thank you Serbia, each recognition helps.

Technically, EU is right: since Kosovo is not under control of the Belgrade government. Same applies to Northern Cyprus.
Same is written on "green card" insurance: "valid in areas of Serbia under control of government in Belgrade".

On the practical side there is 1001 ways for Serbs and Albanians living in Kosovo to go around the problem.

EU bureaucracy is not particularly smart.

K-Serbs can smell Krajina scenario.
Than again, until when Serbs in Serbia proper are going to be hosges of K-Serbs.

“If, to that, one adds the condition that Serbia, together with EULEX and the Kosovo Police Service, installs Albanian customs, judiciary and police in northern Kosovo, then that is not conditioning, but humiliation,”

Serbs in Serbia know this but so what? Serbia is NOT done yet: they must patrol the North of Ibar border with Kosovo, AND "cooperate with EULEX and Kosovo Police," read this from Rhen's statement!

Serbs in Kosova have a dilemma: apply for passports with Serbian address and risk of being called an "illegal immigrant" in Kosovo or wait for 2-3 years until Kosova gets its visas.

Yes, I agress with Arta, K-Serbs would be better to wait for few years so they can get Kosova's liberalization visa other than to get Serbia's one...Act wisely!

EU bureaucracy is not particularly smart.
(Ataman, 15 July 2009 13:51)

I think that's right. I have no idea how they will implement this. As far as I am aware, when Serbia issues passports to people living in Kosovo there is no mentioned of Kosovo anywhere in the passport. It only says Serbia and the name of the city such as Serbia,Decan. How will a border guard know whether Decan is located in Kosovo or Serbia? I like to know for certain whether Kosovo is mentioned anywhere in the passports issued to the people of Kosovo. Anyone know this?

If they let K-Serbs go to Europe without visa, no Serb will stay in Kosovo. It's probably in their favor that they got excluded. I'm sure that on the passport it is clearly stated that certain person is from Kosovo, Europe is not stupid.

What's the point? K Serbs are going to use their own Serbian passports, as they consider themselves to be citizens of Serbia. For them to raise a stink, constitutes their own tacit recognition of separation, not Belgrade. Last time I checked, any Serb in Kosovo can freely travel to and from the rest of Serbia without showing anything more than their licna karta.

Don't think that Kosovo Serbs Institutions and officials, neither equally some in Serbia, should politicize "visa liberation' issue.
Serbia is doing logical "step by step" politics and it is the fact that concerning illegal and bully “Kosovo recognitions”, by some "powerful bully" Countries, Kosovo Serbs population is in the "limbo non-resolved" situation at the moment.
That is clearly an transitional period which will be legally resolved and unwind after the decision of ICJ when Serbia will proceed with adequate steps to re-legalise status of Kosovo Serbian and non-Albanian population under the umbrella of Serbia's proper.
Till then Kosovo Serbs should exercise patients and most importantly work under the close recommendations of theirs Belgrade Government.

BalkanUpdate,they dont have to. Who cares if some K-serbs need visa or not. It`s a political message.

Olf,

Tell us about the Krajina scenario? Tell us please?

@kosovoman

I think the reality we're talking about is the one where Serbs cannot venture freely outside their enclaves without armed guard or speak their language amongst Albanians without fear of being beaten to death. Nor are there many economic opportunities in Kosovo available to them. None of those realities are the fualt of Belgrade.

Add a line of code to the chip in the passport and a database of place names for Serbia and Kosovo to the scanner software used to check the passports?

(Amer, 15 July 2009 20:34)

You lived in America for way to long. Better: add 1000 Forint to the border guards and such place as "Kosovo" does not even exist.

BTW: if you recall my headache from few weeks: the 4GB of proper CL4 RAM finally came in from Germany. It was the second shipment because the first was stolen at the post office. And there isn't a single piece of DDR2 PC2-5300 CL4 RAM in entire Hungary.

And you say chip in the passport? Scanner? Database? C'mon. Before our move a year ago from Santa Clara Valley I would take these words seriously. I got a bit wiser during that year.

Joke - joke - joke - joke!!!

After 20 years the high school class has a reunion. Some came back from Australia, some from Argentina, some from the States. And someone didn't came back from anywhere, he managed to stay in Budapest all the time.

His classmates asked: how come?
His answer: "you know, guys... I did stay home because I am an adventurer type".

@ KOSOVAMAN
"If they let K-Serbs go to Europe vithout visa, no Serb will stay in Kosovo"

Why is that so?

Why is that so?
(Logic, 15 July 2009 19:38)

Because it's easier to move to some European country then to deal with the pressure from Belgrade not to participate in elections, institutions, decentralization, university, police and so on. If they are going to live in Kosovo, they have to get involved and not ignore every possible reality. I'm very glad that those 300+ Serb officers returned to their duties, and I can notice their presence in the streets, and they do have a good effect.
Thank you for asking Logic.

Kosovo has not been offered the visa free restrictions because 1) its not under Serb control and 2) not all 27 member EU states recognise it as an independent state.

Serbia has been asked to stop issuing visas to Kosovo residents, this however if Serbia did this would basically mean it recognises Kosovo independence.

This all has to go to a vote first, another point is that people can only move freely where the Schengen agreement is in place which the UK and Ireland are not part of.

'How will a border guard know whether Decan is located in Kosovo or Serbia?'

Add a line of code to the chip in the passport and a database of place names for Serbia and Kosovo to the scanner software used to check the passports?

To:BalkanUpdate

It does not say at all it only says the city you reside Example Pec. and the address u live in.

It only says Serbia unless in some system they have the cities that are not included.

Any one know is it hard to change place of residance say From Pec to Semederevo or Nis ...

I like to know for certain whether Kosovo is mentioned anywhere in the passports issued to the people of Kosovo. Anyone know this?

(BalkanUpdate, 15 July 2009 15:07)

As far as I know, nothing is mentioned and with multiple names of cities (Decani versus Decan) this is going to be a major headache.

I did hear somewhat like Serbian passports to Kosovo residents will have a different letter. But it is against the Serbian constitution and if it would be a practice like that, the State will lose the very first legal lawsuit.

And I see a potential trouble. There are many complains about certain border guards being corrupt.

The new regulation will give them a lot of "playroom" to decide, is someone a Serb or Albanian and how much bribe to ask for passing to Schengen territory.

That means, "Jovan Jovanovic" from Belgrade can be handled like "Mehmet Berisha": both are Albanians by default. But 5 Euro note inside the Serbian passport will make them true Orthodox Serbs. Just don't expect the passport be returned with the 5 Euro, pardon me, 1000 Forint still inside.

Ask any Subotica resident, they will tell you many stories like that.

At this point it we can clearly say that Serbia is the 63rd country to recognize Kosovo as an independent state.
Thank you Serbia, each recognition helps.
(kosovaman, 15 July 2009 15:55)

But I thought that any country that recognizes Kosova is a pawn of the US. Therefore, Serbia must be a pawn of the US. Does that mean that Serbia's vote doesn't count or that they may change their mind in the future!

Add a line of code to the chip in the passport and a database of place names for Serbia and Kosovo to the scanner software used to check the passports?

(Amer, 15 July 2009 20:34)

You lived in America for way to long. Better: add 1000 Forint to the border guards and such place as "Kosovo" does not even exist.

BTW: if you recall my headache from few weeks: the 4GB of proper CL4 RAM finally came in from Germany. It was the second shipment because the first was stolen at the post office. And there isn't a single piece of DDR2 PC2-5300 CL4 RAM in entire Hungary.

And you say chip in the passport? Scanner? Database? C'mon. Before our move a year ago from Santa Clara Valley I would take these words seriously. I got a bit wiser during that year.

Joke - joke - joke - joke!!!

After 20 years the high school class has a reunion. Some came back from Australia, some from Argentina, some from the States. And someone didn't came back from anywhere, he managed to stay in Budapest all the time.

His classmates asked: how come?
His answer: "you know, guys... I did stay home because I am an adventurer type".

'BTW: if you recall my headache from few weeks: the 4GB of proper CL4 RAM finally came in from Germany. It was the second shipment because the first was stolen at the post office. And there isn't a single piece of DDR2 PC2-5300 CL4 RAM in entire Hungary. '

Oh,yes, former-East-Block postal systems. Their mailmen obviously don't have pension plans worth worrying about. The ones in the CR seemed to be of a literary bent - you really took a chance with books and magazines.

I see an opportunity for some entrepreneurial type here - web-based ordering for the linguistically impaired with delivery via DHL (bulk rate arrangement) from Western Europe/U.S. and pick-up by the customer within the country, e.g., Hungry. (Are there any MailBoxes, Etc. yet?)

Thanks for the hint as to the proper size bill to insert in the passport - I wouldn't want to overdo it and have the guy start thinking I must be carrying something he dare not overlook.

Don't think that Kosovo Serbs Institutions and officials, neither equally some in Serbia, should politicize "visa liberation' issue.
Serbia is doing logical "step by step" politics and it is the fact that concerning illegal and bully “Kosovo recognitions”, by some "powerful bully" Countries, Kosovo Serbs population is in the "limbo non-resolved" situation at the moment.
That is clearly an transitional period which will be legally resolved and unwind after the decision of ICJ when Serbia will proceed with adequate steps to re-legalise status of Kosovo Serbian and non-Albanian population under the umbrella of Serbia's proper.
Till then Kosovo Serbs should exercise patients and most importantly work under the close recommendations of theirs Belgrade Government.

K-Serbs can smell Krajina scenario.
Than again, until when Serbs in Serbia proper are going to be hosges of K-Serbs.

“If, to that, one adds the condition that Serbia, together with EULEX and the Kosovo Police Service, installs Albanian customs, judiciary and police in northern Kosovo, then that is not conditioning, but humiliation,”

Serbs in Serbia know this but so what? Serbia is NOT done yet: they must patrol the North of Ibar border with Kosovo, AND "cooperate with EULEX and Kosovo Police," read this from Rhen's statement!

Serbs in Kosova have a dilemma: apply for passports with Serbian address and risk of being called an "illegal immigrant" in Kosovo or wait for 2-3 years until Kosova gets its visas.

Yes, I agress with Arta, K-Serbs would be better to wait for few years so they can get Kosova's liberalization visa other than to get Serbia's one...Act wisely!

At this point it we can clearly say that Serbia is the 63rd country to recognize Kosovo as an independent state.
Thank you Serbia, each recognition helps.

Technically, EU is right: since Kosovo is not under control of the Belgrade government. Same applies to Northern Cyprus.
Same is written on "green card" insurance: "valid in areas of Serbia under control of government in Belgrade".

On the practical side there is 1001 ways for Serbs and Albanians living in Kosovo to go around the problem.

EU bureaucracy is not particularly smart.

EU bureaucracy is not particularly smart.
(Ataman, 15 July 2009 13:51)

I think that's right. I have no idea how they will implement this. As far as I am aware, when Serbia issues passports to people living in Kosovo there is no mentioned of Kosovo anywhere in the passport. It only says Serbia and the name of the city such as Serbia,Decan. How will a border guard know whether Decan is located in Kosovo or Serbia? I like to know for certain whether Kosovo is mentioned anywhere in the passports issued to the people of Kosovo. Anyone know this?

Why is that so?
(Logic, 15 July 2009 19:38)

Because it's easier to move to some European country then to deal with the pressure from Belgrade not to participate in elections, institutions, decentralization, university, police and so on. If they are going to live in Kosovo, they have to get involved and not ignore every possible reality. I'm very glad that those 300+ Serb officers returned to their duties, and I can notice their presence in the streets, and they do have a good effect.
Thank you for asking Logic.

At this point it we can clearly say that Serbia is the 63rd country to recognize Kosovo as an independent state.
Thank you Serbia, each recognition helps.
(kosovaman, 15 July 2009 15:55)

But I thought that any country that recognizes Kosova is a pawn of the US. Therefore, Serbia must be a pawn of the US. Does that mean that Serbia's vote doesn't count or that they may change their mind in the future!

What's the point? K Serbs are going to use their own Serbian passports, as they consider themselves to be citizens of Serbia. For them to raise a stink, constitutes their own tacit recognition of separation, not Belgrade. Last time I checked, any Serb in Kosovo can freely travel to and from the rest of Serbia without showing anything more than their licna karta.

Olf,

Tell us about the Krajina scenario? Tell us please?

If they let K-Serbs go to Europe without visa, no Serb will stay in Kosovo. It's probably in their favor that they got excluded. I'm sure that on the passport it is clearly stated that certain person is from Kosovo, Europe is not stupid.

I like to know for certain whether Kosovo is mentioned anywhere in the passports issued to the people of Kosovo. Anyone know this?

(BalkanUpdate, 15 July 2009 15:07)

As far as I know, nothing is mentioned and with multiple names of cities (Decani versus Decan) this is going to be a major headache.

I did hear somewhat like Serbian passports to Kosovo residents will have a different letter. But it is against the Serbian constitution and if it would be a practice like that, the State will lose the very first legal lawsuit.

And I see a potential trouble. There are many complains about certain border guards being corrupt.

The new regulation will give them a lot of "playroom" to decide, is someone a Serb or Albanian and how much bribe to ask for passing to Schengen territory.

That means, "Jovan Jovanovic" from Belgrade can be handled like "Mehmet Berisha": both are Albanians by default. But 5 Euro note inside the Serbian passport will make them true Orthodox Serbs. Just don't expect the passport be returned with the 5 Euro, pardon me, 1000 Forint still inside.

Ask any Subotica resident, they will tell you many stories like that.

BalkanUpdate,they dont have to. Who cares if some K-serbs need visa or not. It`s a political message.

To:BalkanUpdate

It does not say at all it only says the city you reside Example Pec. and the address u live in.

It only says Serbia unless in some system they have the cities that are not included.

Any one know is it hard to change place of residance say From Pec to Semederevo or Nis ...

@ KOSOVAMAN
"If they let K-Serbs go to Europe vithout visa, no Serb will stay in Kosovo"

Why is that so?

'BTW: if you recall my headache from few weeks: the 4GB of proper CL4 RAM finally came in from Germany. It was the second shipment because the first was stolen at the post office. And there isn't a single piece of DDR2 PC2-5300 CL4 RAM in entire Hungary. '

Oh,yes, former-East-Block postal systems. Their mailmen obviously don't have pension plans worth worrying about. The ones in the CR seemed to be of a literary bent - you really took a chance with books and magazines.

I see an opportunity for some entrepreneurial type here - web-based ordering for the linguistically impaired with delivery via DHL (bulk rate arrangement) from Western Europe/U.S. and pick-up by the customer within the country, e.g., Hungry. (Are there any MailBoxes, Etc. yet?)

Thanks for the hint as to the proper size bill to insert in the passport - I wouldn't want to overdo it and have the guy start thinking I must be carrying something he dare not overlook.

'How will a border guard know whether Decan is located in Kosovo or Serbia?'

Add a line of code to the chip in the passport and a database of place names for Serbia and Kosovo to the scanner software used to check the passports?

Add a line of code to the chip in the passport and a database of place names for Serbia and Kosovo to the scanner software used to check the passports?

(Amer, 15 July 2009 20:34)

You lived in America for way to long. Better: add 1000 Forint to the border guards and such place as "Kosovo" does not even exist.

BTW: if you recall my headache from few weeks: the 4GB of proper CL4 RAM finally came in from Germany. It was the second shipment because the first was stolen at the post office. And there isn't a single piece of DDR2 PC2-5300 CL4 RAM in entire Hungary.

And you say chip in the passport? Scanner? Database? C'mon. Before our move a year ago from Santa Clara Valley I would take these words seriously. I got a bit wiser during that year.

Joke - joke - joke - joke!!!

After 20 years the high school class has a reunion. Some came back from Australia, some from Argentina, some from the States. And someone didn't came back from anywhere, he managed to stay in Budapest all the time.

His classmates asked: how come?
His answer: "you know, guys... I did stay home because I am an adventurer type".

@kosovoman

I think the reality we're talking about is the one where Serbs cannot venture freely outside their enclaves without armed guard or speak their language amongst Albanians without fear of being beaten to death. Nor are there many economic opportunities in Kosovo available to them. None of those realities are the fualt of Belgrade.

Kosovo has not been offered the visa free restrictions because 1) its not under Serb control and 2) not all 27 member EU states recognise it as an independent state.

Serbia has been asked to stop issuing visas to Kosovo residents, this however if Serbia did this would basically mean it recognises Kosovo independence.

This all has to go to a vote first, another point is that people can only move freely where the Schengen agreement is in place which the UK and Ireland are not part of.

Add a line of code to the chip in the passport and a database of place names for Serbia and Kosovo to the scanner software used to check the passports?

(Amer, 15 July 2009 20:34)

You lived in America for way to long. Better: add 1000 Forint to the border guards and such place as "Kosovo" does not even exist.

BTW: if you recall my headache from few weeks: the 4GB of proper CL4 RAM finally came in from Germany. It was the second shipment because the first was stolen at the post office. And there isn't a single piece of DDR2 PC2-5300 CL4 RAM in entire Hungary.

And you say chip in the passport? Scanner? Database? C'mon. Before our move a year ago from Santa Clara Valley I would take these words seriously. I got a bit wiser during that year.

Joke - joke - joke - joke!!!

After 20 years the high school class has a reunion. Some came back from Australia, some from Argentina, some from the States. And someone didn't came back from anywhere, he managed to stay in Budapest all the time.

His classmates asked: how come?
His answer: "you know, guys... I did stay home because I am an adventurer type".