Serbia is aligned with communist Russia, and with the visa travel, Serbia will have the benefits of EU membership but none of the obligations.
(Liam, 16 July 2009 22:24)
lol, how much nonsense can one put in just one sentence :o serbia is not aligned with russia and russia is not communist. "visa travel" is what serbia has now, from next year serbia will have visa-free travel. visa-free travel however is not to be confused with eu membership. neither comes without obligations, though.
visa liberalisation is good news for people from serbia, montenegro and macedonia and for all people from eu who have friends or relatives there as well as for all people of good will. and while some people may look with suspicion at the fact that it was precisely the countries with majority muslim populations that are being left out and in spite of the fact that anti-islamic sentiment unfortunately is on rise in europe, i'm pretty sure that this is simply due to technical reasons.
This is a disgraceful decision. Some of the most fearsome war criminals remain harboured in Serbia, and the idea that they have secure borders in a joke. Most foreigners will recognise the theft and corruption by Serbia border police. What is ironic is that Kosovo borders have been controlled by EU and US for years, so the idea that Serb borders are now good and Kosovo borders are not up to standards shows the weakness of the EU. Serbia is aligned with communist Russia, and with the visa travel, Serbia will have the benefits of EU membership but none of the obligations.
Those here who say that Sarbs are European and Kosovo Albanians are not are fooling themselves. All people in the SEE are European. This EU decision will create a prison for Bosnian ethnic muslims and Kosovo ethnic Albanians, and this is unfair. The whole region should be allowed into the EU tomorrow. It is ironic that Bulgaria especially is an EU state, and not Serbia, or BiH, or Kosovo, or even Macedonia.
Serbs are mostly good and decent citizens who deserve economic freedom, but the same applies to all other former Yugoslavs. Demographics and logic suggests that Republika Sprska will be an independent country soon, and Serbia will recognize Kosovo, and maybe then, the people in this region will make business, good relations and not war and conflict, which keeps too many Russian and US business interests alive.
@#16: Ataman, I got your message right from the first reading, still thought to point out my idea (which seems to be in the same line). I just hope that your message will find the right audience.
I certainly think that the French and the Germans, also the French and the English are very happy that real reconciliation was possible as I don't think that any normal citizens enjoy killing each other. Let's hope that this model will prevail.
To Mircea, what can I say? He must know that we have people of real Mongolian descent in Romania, at the sea side. He must have noticed that they look slightly different from the Hungarians (who actually look strikingly identical to us). I mean, what's the point anyway? We live very well with the Tatars too...
"I agree though, the Bulgarians are anything else but constant"
Bulgarian foregn policy has always been cinstant, albeit at times difficult to follow. It was coined in the late 19 century: "Always with Germany, never against Russia". This lead to absurd situation during WWII Bulgaria (and Japan) to be tha Axis countries that kept neutrality with USSR and indeed had a Soviet Embassy in Sofia. In both cases it was the USSR that was disloyal. It attacked both countries when it was safe to do so. Japan however was occupied by the US. The Bulgarians had no such luck!
At last... even after 18 years that "treatment" that EC had about serbian people comes to an end..
My girl is serbian and from now on she can come anytime she wants without collecting papers, losing time and patience and plan...
Greece - Serbia Forever Brothers
I don't know why most comments are pessimistic and put forward controversies.
I just know it is good news for your country, Serbia, you deserve it.
Please stop to criticize all the time people who work in Brussels, of course some are incompetent, but some try also to do their best, like my french compatriot Jacques Barrot that I thank for his main role in visa liberalization discussions. He is a great man.
So, good luck Serbia, go ahead now, we love you, despite what you may think.
"not like our Bulgarian “friends” since 1914 betraying Russia at the first opportunity …
(НАША RUSSIA, 15 July 2009 18:59) "
well, no worries, Russia made sure three years later, by betraying others, to shake hands with the side the Bulgarians were on.
I agree though, the Bulgarians are anything else but constant and serbian loyalty would be really tested if you guys don't come up with a solution for S(outh) S(tream).
This is an excellent news for Serbian citizen. I have to say though I am really surprised by the fact that Serbia is accepting the exclusion of Kosovo from the free visa regime without throwing a fit.Slowly but surely they are recognizing reality on the ground. I guess Kostunica was right when he said Tadic is recognizing Kosovo.
(BalkanUpdate, 15 July 2009 14:48)
What do they care? All Serbs in Kosovo-Metohija can get an address in another part of Serbia and travel freely. I cannot say the same for the rest of the occupiers of the province. This is great news for Serbs everywhere.
“We’re certain that the decision will be positive…”
*** Unfortunately the devil always hides in the details :
“… continued good border control, document security…”
*** What “good border control” is understood in Brussels ? For the time being Serbia does not control the outside perimeter of Kosovo and Metohjia ! But in any case judging the Albanian comments it’s good news for our Serbian brothers ! Congratulations ! I believe when it happens you will remain the same and behave like the Greek do but not like our Bulgarian “friends” since 1914 betraying Russia at the first opportunity …
Please read my previous posting carefully. Maybe it is the language and maybe it wasn't clear: it was kind of parody and I was mocking the worst of both sides. Otherwise I would not use words "oláh" and "bozgor".
What I wanted to say is that the old animosity usually disappears if the stomach and the wallet (taxes) is at question. That should apply hopefully to Serbs and Albanians.
----------
To Mircea in particular:
If you go back 1100 years, there was no such thing as "Hungarian". There were 10 tribes. "Mongolian" version is not correct: none of these tribes came from that area. The language is agglutinative, like Mongolian or Turkish - but also spoken in Caucasian Albania, not to mix with Shqips. Caucasian Albanians (Lezg) are probably far relatives of Hungarians, Shqip-Albanians (see Pristina, Tirana, Italian Calabria) are not related to Hungarians.
Disagree with direct Dacian-Romanian link. Outside of Romania it is not regarded as "mainstream".
@#3: Ataman, just to let you know that we, Romanians do not hate you. There has been sufficient mishap in history and currently me, for example, I prefer to forget that my grand-father (from somewhere near Cluj / Koloszvar) has been taken in a forced labour camp in Veszprem during WWII. I prefer to remember that the only real help that was available to Mircea our king against the Ottomans was from the king of Hungary. This may seem unimportant today but, in fact, enabled us to avoid the status of pashalik (de-facto Turkish territory) because the treaty signed in the 14th century had to be respected by the Turks until the 18th century (the rather brief Phanariote period canceled that).
Now I would also like to bring to your attention that I do not know in this world two other nations living together to such extent geographically and historically overlapped. There are problems in Belgium between Walloons and Flemish for much less overlap, there are no official ethnic minorities in France (!), no official ethnic minorities in Greece and the examples can continue even without mentioning what happens in the Middle-East, in China or other non-European countries. I think that we, Hungarians and Romanians are actually doing pretty well together, considering the extent of what we share. For the future we should probably focus and invest in finding even better ways of living together ever closer rather than excluding each other (which is not possible anyway - like it or not). For this reason, allow me to say that although there may be still hot heads here and there, I think it's an overstatement to say that we hate you or you hate us. Personally, I have Hungarian friends, with whom I share very pleasant time every now and then (dine / wine / talk and of course, the palinka in winter).
In fact, I'm gonna have to cut this message short because this afternoon I have to go and see my brother who is returning with his family from a brief holiday in Budapest, by the way. Did I mention that we really like Budapest?
The Hungarians came from Mongolia and occupied Transylvania. When the Hungarians arrived in Transylvania the region was already inhabited by the Romanian population.
The ancestors of the Romanians, the Dacians, inhabited Transylvania long before the Hungarians came to Europe from Mongolia.
You Hungarians cannot claim that Transylvania is yours since your ancestors came to Europe from Mongolia.
Preemptive congratulations to Serbia for finally being treated like the country it deserves to be. I'm sure the open-ended issue of Kosovo will be tacitly solved with K Serbs using their Serbian passports (what other passports do they need?). To be honest, I'm happy Belgrade didn't make it a sticking issue that all of Kosovo be included. The rest of Serbia needs to think of itself first for a change. Let EULEX handle the headache they've inherited.
"Good news! As this stresses that Kosovo is a Serbian province currently not ruled by Serbia.
So again we are back at 1244. "
Not sure where you are getting that message from. I believe the EU is saying that they currently consider Kosovo no man's land where they have little faith in the accuracy of passport issuance. The EU has also left Albania & Bosnia off the list as they are behind in the issuance of biometric passport. (Read: They have no confidence in the validity of passports there either.)
Serbia should not accept this without either (a) Kosovo included as part of its sovereign boundary; or (b) with a written and legally binding statement from the EU that they recognise Kosovo as a province of Serbia (or perhaps a version more EU friendly).
If either of these is unlikely, then why bother? This is complete blackmail by the EU.
Selling Kosovo for visa free travel to other countries in Europe where there is also no work and poor living standards for those without money.
Plus this will exclude travel to the UK, Ireland, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus which are not in the Schengen zone.
How many wars have been fought over Kosovo, and the EU wants Serbia to give it up for virtually nothing?
We look forward to giving all the Kosovo albanians fake addresses so that they can get their one way ticket to leave Kosovo and plant themselves in countries like Germany, which oh so deserve them. Kosovo je Srbija!
Cheers!
This is an excellent news for Serbian citizen. I have to say though I am really surprised by the fact that Serbia is accepting the exclusion of Kosovo from the free visa regime without throwing a fit.Slowly but surely they are recognizing reality on the ground. I guess Kostunica was right when he said Tadic is recognizing Kosovo.
Hopefully this is not premature but congratulations Serbia.
This is a first step. I'm sure the young Serbs who travel will help others understand Serbs and I'm sure that you have much to contribute to a modern europe.
"EU, rightly or wrongly, does not consider them to be culturally, religiously and socially a part European family of nations"
So what did Serbia change yesterday: its culture, religion or what? What made you "European" yesterday, must have been something you didn't have for the past 18 years according to your logic.
Of course, we do HATE Romania. They took our Erdély, which is the cradle of Hungarian culture. Of course there is rarely any occasion missed to show them the middle finger.
Of course, since Romania has much better tax laws and lower unemployment, the patriotic convulsions are forgotten at the moment the vallet and stomach is empty.... and many simply immigrate to much hated Romania.
-----
Of course, they do HATE us. Because they feel not secure. Large Hungarian minority and so on, so on. A decade ago the situation was the opposite: Hungary's industry and job situation was light years ahead of Romania. The Romanians who despised these horrible "Bozgors"... well, they did the best to just become an other "Bozgor", at least on papers and did stay in the line in that horrible "Bozgoristan" for the new "Bozgorian" passport.
Economics and common sense can cure ethnic insanities either way.
And the question was it an "oláh" monkey or a "bozgor" monkey which climbed down the tree earlier remains unsolved. Instead of trying to solve it, some jobless guys/girls in "Magyar Gárda" probably would be better to learn some Romanian and look for a decent job.
All this applies to some other known cases. Maybe that monkey was a Serb or Shqip. ;)
Of course, EU/EC will keep coming up with so many things that; till Serbia makes the final step, will be very tiresome. Don't trust eurocrats.
First they asked serbia for an inch, but later they want to take the whole arm. You will see.
I read an anecdotal post describing a scene around the Serbian embassy in Switzerland. Apparently you can't pass from all the Albanians. Lets put this into context. These people renounced their Serbian citizenship, annexed Serbia's Kosovo & Metohija province to Albania and now, cool as you like as if nothing has happened, they swamp the Serbian embassy in Switzerland to get their hands of white Shengen travel documents. One would assume that common decency and a conscience would prevent them from doing so but one would be wrong. Of course, one fully empathizes with those that consider themselves to be law abiding Serbian citizens. For the rest it is slowly dawning on them that the EU, rightly or wrongly, does not consider them to be culturally, religiously and socially a part European family of nations despite the best US efforts to convince them otherwize (for their personal geopolical reasons rather than a love for Albanians).
I read an anecdotal post describing a scene around the Serbian embassy in Switzerland. Apparently you can't pass from all the Albanians. Lets put this into context. These people renounced their Serbian citizenship, annexed Serbia's Kosovo & Metohija province to Albania and now, cool as you like as if nothing has happened, they swamp the Serbian embassy in Switzerland to get their hands of white Shengen travel documents. One would assume that common decency and a conscience would prevent them from doing so but one would be wrong. Of course, one fully empathizes with those that consider themselves to be law abiding Serbian citizens. For the rest it is slowly dawning on them that the EU, rightly or wrongly, does not consider them to be culturally, religiously and socially a part European family of nations despite the best US efforts to convince them otherwize (for their personal geopolical reasons rather than a love for Albanians).
Hopefully this is not premature but congratulations Serbia.
This is a first step. I'm sure the young Serbs who travel will help others understand Serbs and I'm sure that you have much to contribute to a modern europe.
Preemptive congratulations to Serbia for finally being treated like the country it deserves to be. I'm sure the open-ended issue of Kosovo will be tacitly solved with K Serbs using their Serbian passports (what other passports do they need?). To be honest, I'm happy Belgrade didn't make it a sticking issue that all of Kosovo be included. The rest of Serbia needs to think of itself first for a change. Let EULEX handle the headache they've inherited.
This is an excellent news for Serbian citizen. I have to say though I am really surprised by the fact that Serbia is accepting the exclusion of Kosovo from the free visa regime without throwing a fit.Slowly but surely they are recognizing reality on the ground. I guess Kostunica was right when he said Tadic is recognizing Kosovo.
We look forward to giving all the Kosovo albanians fake addresses so that they can get their one way ticket to leave Kosovo and plant themselves in countries like Germany, which oh so deserve them. Kosovo je Srbija!
Cheers!
Serbia should not accept this without either (a) Kosovo included as part of its sovereign boundary; or (b) with a written and legally binding statement from the EU that they recognise Kosovo as a province of Serbia (or perhaps a version more EU friendly).
If either of these is unlikely, then why bother? This is complete blackmail by the EU.
Selling Kosovo for visa free travel to other countries in Europe where there is also no work and poor living standards for those without money.
Plus this will exclude travel to the UK, Ireland, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus which are not in the Schengen zone.
How many wars have been fought over Kosovo, and the EU wants Serbia to give it up for virtually nothing?
Of course, EU/EC will keep coming up with so many things that; till Serbia makes the final step, will be very tiresome. Don't trust eurocrats.
First they asked serbia for an inch, but later they want to take the whole arm. You will see.
"EU, rightly or wrongly, does not consider them to be culturally, religiously and socially a part European family of nations"
So what did Serbia change yesterday: its culture, religion or what? What made you "European" yesterday, must have been something you didn't have for the past 18 years according to your logic.
"Good news! As this stresses that Kosovo is a Serbian province currently not ruled by Serbia.
So again we are back at 1244. "
Not sure where you are getting that message from. I believe the EU is saying that they currently consider Kosovo no man's land where they have little faith in the accuracy of passport issuance. The EU has also left Albania & Bosnia off the list as they are behind in the issuance of biometric passport. (Read: They have no confidence in the validity of passports there either.)
Of course, we do HATE Romania. They took our Erdély, which is the cradle of Hungarian culture. Of course there is rarely any occasion missed to show them the middle finger.
Of course, since Romania has much better tax laws and lower unemployment, the patriotic convulsions are forgotten at the moment the vallet and stomach is empty.... and many simply immigrate to much hated Romania.
-----
Of course, they do HATE us. Because they feel not secure. Large Hungarian minority and so on, so on. A decade ago the situation was the opposite: Hungary's industry and job situation was light years ahead of Romania. The Romanians who despised these horrible "Bozgors"... well, they did the best to just become an other "Bozgor", at least on papers and did stay in the line in that horrible "Bozgoristan" for the new "Bozgorian" passport.
Economics and common sense can cure ethnic insanities either way.
And the question was it an "oláh" monkey or a "bozgor" monkey which climbed down the tree earlier remains unsolved. Instead of trying to solve it, some jobless guys/girls in "Magyar Gárda" probably would be better to learn some Romanian and look for a decent job.
All this applies to some other known cases. Maybe that monkey was a Serb or Shqip. ;)
This is an excellent news for Serbian citizen. I have to say though I am really surprised by the fact that Serbia is accepting the exclusion of Kosovo from the free visa regime without throwing a fit.Slowly but surely they are recognizing reality on the ground. I guess Kostunica was right when he said Tadic is recognizing Kosovo.
(BalkanUpdate, 15 July 2009 14:48)
What do they care? All Serbs in Kosovo-Metohija can get an address in another part of Serbia and travel freely. I cannot say the same for the rest of the occupiers of the province. This is great news for Serbs everywhere.
“We’re certain that the decision will be positive…”
*** Unfortunately the devil always hides in the details :
“… continued good border control, document security…”
*** What “good border control” is understood in Brussels ? For the time being Serbia does not control the outside perimeter of Kosovo and Metohjia ! But in any case judging the Albanian comments it’s good news for our Serbian brothers ! Congratulations ! I believe when it happens you will remain the same and behave like the Greek do but not like our Bulgarian “friends” since 1914 betraying Russia at the first opportunity …
The Hungarians came from Mongolia and occupied Transylvania. When the Hungarians arrived in Transylvania the region was already inhabited by the Romanian population.
The ancestors of the Romanians, the Dacians, inhabited Transylvania long before the Hungarians came to Europe from Mongolia.
You Hungarians cannot claim that Transylvania is yours since your ancestors came to Europe from Mongolia.
I don't know why most comments are pessimistic and put forward controversies.
I just know it is good news for your country, Serbia, you deserve it.
Please stop to criticize all the time people who work in Brussels, of course some are incompetent, but some try also to do their best, like my french compatriot Jacques Barrot that I thank for his main role in visa liberalization discussions. He is a great man.
So, good luck Serbia, go ahead now, we love you, despite what you may think.
At last... even after 18 years that "treatment" that EC had about serbian people comes to an end..
My girl is serbian and from now on she can come anytime she wants without collecting papers, losing time and patience and plan...
Greece - Serbia Forever Brothers
@#3: Ataman, just to let you know that we, Romanians do not hate you. There has been sufficient mishap in history and currently me, for example, I prefer to forget that my grand-father (from somewhere near Cluj / Koloszvar) has been taken in a forced labour camp in Veszprem during WWII. I prefer to remember that the only real help that was available to Mircea our king against the Ottomans was from the king of Hungary. This may seem unimportant today but, in fact, enabled us to avoid the status of pashalik (de-facto Turkish territory) because the treaty signed in the 14th century had to be respected by the Turks until the 18th century (the rather brief Phanariote period canceled that).
Now I would also like to bring to your attention that I do not know in this world two other nations living together to such extent geographically and historically overlapped. There are problems in Belgium between Walloons and Flemish for much less overlap, there are no official ethnic minorities in France (!), no official ethnic minorities in Greece and the examples can continue even without mentioning what happens in the Middle-East, in China or other non-European countries. I think that we, Hungarians and Romanians are actually doing pretty well together, considering the extent of what we share. For the future we should probably focus and invest in finding even better ways of living together ever closer rather than excluding each other (which is not possible anyway - like it or not). For this reason, allow me to say that although there may be still hot heads here and there, I think it's an overstatement to say that we hate you or you hate us. Personally, I have Hungarian friends, with whom I share very pleasant time every now and then (dine / wine / talk and of course, the palinka in winter).
In fact, I'm gonna have to cut this message short because this afternoon I have to go and see my brother who is returning with his family from a brief holiday in Budapest, by the way. Did I mention that we really like Budapest?
Please read my previous posting carefully. Maybe it is the language and maybe it wasn't clear: it was kind of parody and I was mocking the worst of both sides. Otherwise I would not use words "oláh" and "bozgor".
What I wanted to say is that the old animosity usually disappears if the stomach and the wallet (taxes) is at question. That should apply hopefully to Serbs and Albanians.
----------
To Mircea in particular:
If you go back 1100 years, there was no such thing as "Hungarian". There were 10 tribes. "Mongolian" version is not correct: none of these tribes came from that area. The language is agglutinative, like Mongolian or Turkish - but also spoken in Caucasian Albania, not to mix with Shqips. Caucasian Albanians (Lezg) are probably far relatives of Hungarians, Shqip-Albanians (see Pristina, Tirana, Italian Calabria) are not related to Hungarians.
Disagree with direct Dacian-Romanian link. Outside of Romania it is not regarded as "mainstream".
@#16: Ataman, I got your message right from the first reading, still thought to point out my idea (which seems to be in the same line). I just hope that your message will find the right audience.
I certainly think that the French and the Germans, also the French and the English are very happy that real reconciliation was possible as I don't think that any normal citizens enjoy killing each other. Let's hope that this model will prevail.
To Mircea, what can I say? He must know that we have people of real Mongolian descent in Romania, at the sea side. He must have noticed that they look slightly different from the Hungarians (who actually look strikingly identical to us). I mean, what's the point anyway? We live very well with the Tatars too...
"not like our Bulgarian “friends” since 1914 betraying Russia at the first opportunity …
(НАША RUSSIA, 15 July 2009 18:59) "
well, no worries, Russia made sure three years later, by betraying others, to shake hands with the side the Bulgarians were on.
I agree though, the Bulgarians are anything else but constant and serbian loyalty would be really tested if you guys don't come up with a solution for S(outh) S(tream).
This is a disgraceful decision. Some of the most fearsome war criminals remain harboured in Serbia, and the idea that they have secure borders in a joke. Most foreigners will recognise the theft and corruption by Serbia border police. What is ironic is that Kosovo borders have been controlled by EU and US for years, so the idea that Serb borders are now good and Kosovo borders are not up to standards shows the weakness of the EU. Serbia is aligned with communist Russia, and with the visa travel, Serbia will have the benefits of EU membership but none of the obligations.
Those here who say that Sarbs are European and Kosovo Albanians are not are fooling themselves. All people in the SEE are European. This EU decision will create a prison for Bosnian ethnic muslims and Kosovo ethnic Albanians, and this is unfair. The whole region should be allowed into the EU tomorrow. It is ironic that Bulgaria especially is an EU state, and not Serbia, or BiH, or Kosovo, or even Macedonia.
Serbs are mostly good and decent citizens who deserve economic freedom, but the same applies to all other former Yugoslavs. Demographics and logic suggests that Republika Sprska will be an independent country soon, and Serbia will recognize Kosovo, and maybe then, the people in this region will make business, good relations and not war and conflict, which keeps too many Russian and US business interests alive.
Serbia is aligned with communist Russia, and with the visa travel, Serbia will have the benefits of EU membership but none of the obligations.
(Liam, 16 July 2009 22:24)
lol, how much nonsense can one put in just one sentence :o serbia is not aligned with russia and russia is not communist. "visa travel" is what serbia has now, from next year serbia will have visa-free travel. visa-free travel however is not to be confused with eu membership. neither comes without obligations, though.
visa liberalisation is good news for people from serbia, montenegro and macedonia and for all people from eu who have friends or relatives there as well as for all people of good will. and while some people may look with suspicion at the fact that it was precisely the countries with majority muslim populations that are being left out and in spite of the fact that anti-islamic sentiment unfortunately is on rise in europe, i'm pretty sure that this is simply due to technical reasons.
"I agree though, the Bulgarians are anything else but constant"
Bulgarian foregn policy has always been cinstant, albeit at times difficult to follow. It was coined in the late 19 century: "Always with Germany, never against Russia". This lead to absurd situation during WWII Bulgaria (and Japan) to be tha Axis countries that kept neutrality with USSR and indeed had a Soviet Embassy in Sofia. In both cases it was the USSR that was disloyal. It attacked both countries when it was safe to do so. Japan however was occupied by the US. The Bulgarians had no such luck!
"EU, rightly or wrongly, does not consider them to be culturally, religiously and socially a part European family of nations"
So what did Serbia change yesterday: its culture, religion or what? What made you "European" yesterday, must have been something you didn't have for the past 18 years according to your logic.
Of course, EU/EC will keep coming up with so many things that; till Serbia makes the final step, will be very tiresome. Don't trust eurocrats.
First they asked serbia for an inch, but later they want to take the whole arm. You will see.
This is an excellent news for Serbian citizen. I have to say though I am really surprised by the fact that Serbia is accepting the exclusion of Kosovo from the free visa regime without throwing a fit.Slowly but surely they are recognizing reality on the ground. I guess Kostunica was right when he said Tadic is recognizing Kosovo.
We look forward to giving all the Kosovo albanians fake addresses so that they can get their one way ticket to leave Kosovo and plant themselves in countries like Germany, which oh so deserve them. Kosovo je Srbija!
Cheers!
The Hungarians came from Mongolia and occupied Transylvania. When the Hungarians arrived in Transylvania the region was already inhabited by the Romanian population.
The ancestors of the Romanians, the Dacians, inhabited Transylvania long before the Hungarians came to Europe from Mongolia.
You Hungarians cannot claim that Transylvania is yours since your ancestors came to Europe from Mongolia.
I read an anecdotal post describing a scene around the Serbian embassy in Switzerland. Apparently you can't pass from all the Albanians. Lets put this into context. These people renounced their Serbian citizenship, annexed Serbia's Kosovo & Metohija province to Albania and now, cool as you like as if nothing has happened, they swamp the Serbian embassy in Switzerland to get their hands of white Shengen travel documents. One would assume that common decency and a conscience would prevent them from doing so but one would be wrong. Of course, one fully empathizes with those that consider themselves to be law abiding Serbian citizens. For the rest it is slowly dawning on them that the EU, rightly or wrongly, does not consider them to be culturally, religiously and socially a part European family of nations despite the best US efforts to convince them otherwize (for their personal geopolical reasons rather than a love for Albanians).
Of course, we do HATE Romania. They took our Erdély, which is the cradle of Hungarian culture. Of course there is rarely any occasion missed to show them the middle finger.
Of course, since Romania has much better tax laws and lower unemployment, the patriotic convulsions are forgotten at the moment the vallet and stomach is empty.... and many simply immigrate to much hated Romania.
-----
Of course, they do HATE us. Because they feel not secure. Large Hungarian minority and so on, so on. A decade ago the situation was the opposite: Hungary's industry and job situation was light years ahead of Romania. The Romanians who despised these horrible "Bozgors"... well, they did the best to just become an other "Bozgor", at least on papers and did stay in the line in that horrible "Bozgoristan" for the new "Bozgorian" passport.
Economics and common sense can cure ethnic insanities either way.
And the question was it an "oláh" monkey or a "bozgor" monkey which climbed down the tree earlier remains unsolved. Instead of trying to solve it, some jobless guys/girls in "Magyar Gárda" probably would be better to learn some Romanian and look for a decent job.
All this applies to some other known cases. Maybe that monkey was a Serb or Shqip. ;)
This is a disgraceful decision. Some of the most fearsome war criminals remain harboured in Serbia, and the idea that they have secure borders in a joke. Most foreigners will recognise the theft and corruption by Serbia border police. What is ironic is that Kosovo borders have been controlled by EU and US for years, so the idea that Serb borders are now good and Kosovo borders are not up to standards shows the weakness of the EU. Serbia is aligned with communist Russia, and with the visa travel, Serbia will have the benefits of EU membership but none of the obligations.
Those here who say that Sarbs are European and Kosovo Albanians are not are fooling themselves. All people in the SEE are European. This EU decision will create a prison for Bosnian ethnic muslims and Kosovo ethnic Albanians, and this is unfair. The whole region should be allowed into the EU tomorrow. It is ironic that Bulgaria especially is an EU state, and not Serbia, or BiH, or Kosovo, or even Macedonia.
Serbs are mostly good and decent citizens who deserve economic freedom, but the same applies to all other former Yugoslavs. Demographics and logic suggests that Republika Sprska will be an independent country soon, and Serbia will recognize Kosovo, and maybe then, the people in this region will make business, good relations and not war and conflict, which keeps too many Russian and US business interests alive.
Hopefully this is not premature but congratulations Serbia.
This is a first step. I'm sure the young Serbs who travel will help others understand Serbs and I'm sure that you have much to contribute to a modern europe.
Serbia should not accept this without either (a) Kosovo included as part of its sovereign boundary; or (b) with a written and legally binding statement from the EU that they recognise Kosovo as a province of Serbia (or perhaps a version more EU friendly).
If either of these is unlikely, then why bother? This is complete blackmail by the EU.
Selling Kosovo for visa free travel to other countries in Europe where there is also no work and poor living standards for those without money.
Plus this will exclude travel to the UK, Ireland, Bulgaria, Romania and Cyprus which are not in the Schengen zone.
How many wars have been fought over Kosovo, and the EU wants Serbia to give it up for virtually nothing?
“We’re certain that the decision will be positive…”
*** Unfortunately the devil always hides in the details :
“… continued good border control, document security…”
*** What “good border control” is understood in Brussels ? For the time being Serbia does not control the outside perimeter of Kosovo and Metohjia ! But in any case judging the Albanian comments it’s good news for our Serbian brothers ! Congratulations ! I believe when it happens you will remain the same and behave like the Greek do but not like our Bulgarian “friends” since 1914 betraying Russia at the first opportunity …
"not like our Bulgarian “friends” since 1914 betraying Russia at the first opportunity …
(НАША RUSSIA, 15 July 2009 18:59) "
well, no worries, Russia made sure three years later, by betraying others, to shake hands with the side the Bulgarians were on.
I agree though, the Bulgarians are anything else but constant and serbian loyalty would be really tested if you guys don't come up with a solution for S(outh) S(tream).
"I agree though, the Bulgarians are anything else but constant"
Bulgarian foregn policy has always been cinstant, albeit at times difficult to follow. It was coined in the late 19 century: "Always with Germany, never against Russia". This lead to absurd situation during WWII Bulgaria (and Japan) to be tha Axis countries that kept neutrality with USSR and indeed had a Soviet Embassy in Sofia. In both cases it was the USSR that was disloyal. It attacked both countries when it was safe to do so. Japan however was occupied by the US. The Bulgarians had no such luck!
Preemptive congratulations to Serbia for finally being treated like the country it deserves to be. I'm sure the open-ended issue of Kosovo will be tacitly solved with K Serbs using their Serbian passports (what other passports do they need?). To be honest, I'm happy Belgrade didn't make it a sticking issue that all of Kosovo be included. The rest of Serbia needs to think of itself first for a change. Let EULEX handle the headache they've inherited.
@#3: Ataman, just to let you know that we, Romanians do not hate you. There has been sufficient mishap in history and currently me, for example, I prefer to forget that my grand-father (from somewhere near Cluj / Koloszvar) has been taken in a forced labour camp in Veszprem during WWII. I prefer to remember that the only real help that was available to Mircea our king against the Ottomans was from the king of Hungary. This may seem unimportant today but, in fact, enabled us to avoid the status of pashalik (de-facto Turkish territory) because the treaty signed in the 14th century had to be respected by the Turks until the 18th century (the rather brief Phanariote period canceled that).
Now I would also like to bring to your attention that I do not know in this world two other nations living together to such extent geographically and historically overlapped. There are problems in Belgium between Walloons and Flemish for much less overlap, there are no official ethnic minorities in France (!), no official ethnic minorities in Greece and the examples can continue even without mentioning what happens in the Middle-East, in China or other non-European countries. I think that we, Hungarians and Romanians are actually doing pretty well together, considering the extent of what we share. For the future we should probably focus and invest in finding even better ways of living together ever closer rather than excluding each other (which is not possible anyway - like it or not). For this reason, allow me to say that although there may be still hot heads here and there, I think it's an overstatement to say that we hate you or you hate us. Personally, I have Hungarian friends, with whom I share very pleasant time every now and then (dine / wine / talk and of course, the palinka in winter).
In fact, I'm gonna have to cut this message short because this afternoon I have to go and see my brother who is returning with his family from a brief holiday in Budapest, by the way. Did I mention that we really like Budapest?
This is an excellent news for Serbian citizen. I have to say though I am really surprised by the fact that Serbia is accepting the exclusion of Kosovo from the free visa regime without throwing a fit.Slowly but surely they are recognizing reality on the ground. I guess Kostunica was right when he said Tadic is recognizing Kosovo.
(BalkanUpdate, 15 July 2009 14:48)
What do they care? All Serbs in Kosovo-Metohija can get an address in another part of Serbia and travel freely. I cannot say the same for the rest of the occupiers of the province. This is great news for Serbs everywhere.
I don't know why most comments are pessimistic and put forward controversies.
I just know it is good news for your country, Serbia, you deserve it.
Please stop to criticize all the time people who work in Brussels, of course some are incompetent, but some try also to do their best, like my french compatriot Jacques Barrot that I thank for his main role in visa liberalization discussions. He is a great man.
So, good luck Serbia, go ahead now, we love you, despite what you may think.
At last... even after 18 years that "treatment" that EC had about serbian people comes to an end..
My girl is serbian and from now on she can come anytime she wants without collecting papers, losing time and patience and plan...
Greece - Serbia Forever Brothers
"Good news! As this stresses that Kosovo is a Serbian province currently not ruled by Serbia.
So again we are back at 1244. "
Not sure where you are getting that message from. I believe the EU is saying that they currently consider Kosovo no man's land where they have little faith in the accuracy of passport issuance. The EU has also left Albania & Bosnia off the list as they are behind in the issuance of biometric passport. (Read: They have no confidence in the validity of passports there either.)
Please read my previous posting carefully. Maybe it is the language and maybe it wasn't clear: it was kind of parody and I was mocking the worst of both sides. Otherwise I would not use words "oláh" and "bozgor".
What I wanted to say is that the old animosity usually disappears if the stomach and the wallet (taxes) is at question. That should apply hopefully to Serbs and Albanians.
----------
To Mircea in particular:
If you go back 1100 years, there was no such thing as "Hungarian". There were 10 tribes. "Mongolian" version is not correct: none of these tribes came from that area. The language is agglutinative, like Mongolian or Turkish - but also spoken in Caucasian Albania, not to mix with Shqips. Caucasian Albanians (Lezg) are probably far relatives of Hungarians, Shqip-Albanians (see Pristina, Tirana, Italian Calabria) are not related to Hungarians.
Disagree with direct Dacian-Romanian link. Outside of Romania it is not regarded as "mainstream".
@#16: Ataman, I got your message right from the first reading, still thought to point out my idea (which seems to be in the same line). I just hope that your message will find the right audience.
I certainly think that the French and the Germans, also the French and the English are very happy that real reconciliation was possible as I don't think that any normal citizens enjoy killing each other. Let's hope that this model will prevail.
To Mircea, what can I say? He must know that we have people of real Mongolian descent in Romania, at the sea side. He must have noticed that they look slightly different from the Hungarians (who actually look strikingly identical to us). I mean, what's the point anyway? We live very well with the Tatars too...
Serbia is aligned with communist Russia, and with the visa travel, Serbia will have the benefits of EU membership but none of the obligations.
(Liam, 16 July 2009 22:24)
lol, how much nonsense can one put in just one sentence :o serbia is not aligned with russia and russia is not communist. "visa travel" is what serbia has now, from next year serbia will have visa-free travel. visa-free travel however is not to be confused with eu membership. neither comes without obligations, though.
visa liberalisation is good news for people from serbia, montenegro and macedonia and for all people from eu who have friends or relatives there as well as for all people of good will. and while some people may look with suspicion at the fact that it was precisely the countries with majority muslim populations that are being left out and in spite of the fact that anti-islamic sentiment unfortunately is on rise in europe, i'm pretty sure that this is simply due to technical reasons.
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