Dutch FM cancels trip to Belgrade

Good job Nedherlands. Never et Serbia in EU without catching Mladic, recognize Kosovo and apoplige to all it's neighbours for what Serbia has done to their land and people.

Well its good to see that the Dutch are so open and willing to enter into discussions on any subject as long as the subject covers the potential for economic gains to themselves from closer trade ties. So Serbia works like a dog to try and fulfill all the requirements that are thrust upon her by the international community and when she tries to explain the nature of all her hard work to the one country who refuses to acknowledge it, she is snubbed and the Dutch act like a sulking child and postpone the meeting altogether. What a mature and professional approach from the Dutch(I dont think)

Maxime Verhagen stay home! By the way to all the Albanians who are Dutch lovers, the Dutch deport more Albanians than any other country in the world!

The great lords of Serbia who talk in the name of other countrys, arent they mingeling in others internal affairs? Its Serbia that has to negotiate, not Holland.
Like this is looks that no Kosovo, and no EU.

Could one of the EU-lovers who read this site please explain what benefit the EU will bring to the citizens of Serbia? It would be useful if you could illuminate your response with an example from say, Romania or Bulgaria, showing how the EU has helped improve the lives of ordinary people.

The Dutch claim that neither of those two themes were on the agreed agenda.

Very funny what is going onlately with serb politicians.
What they say publicly and the reality are so far apart.
If they keep up this game, hardly anybody will come to visit Belgrade.

Thank you Holland for your determined stance against (actually FOR) Serbia. It is a blessing for us that Holland is blocking our entrance into the EU circles and the SAA agreement. Serbia does not deserve to be fooled to join an organization (EU) which only wants to "use" Serbia and reduce her sovereignty as a nation. And once you "get in", it's almost impossible to get out....ask Great Britain! So again....opet hvala to our true friends, the Dutch!!!

well this should be very clear signal from the dutch we do not want serbia in the eu ,,,,


mr tadic it is now the time to start getting your house in order republoka srpska ,north kosovo to join serbia proper and make milorad dodik your new prime minister of grater serbia ,all the writing is on the wall now cause the dutch just punched you in the nose .zivela srbija

Dutch FM is fed up with Serbian lies.

He relised that new lies are being cooked in Belgrade for Serbia's cooperation with ICTY so no wonder he cancells.

Bring Mladic to the Hague the Dutch PM & FM will come to visit Serbia WITHOUT hesitation....

To adrian, timisaora. Didn't Romania have to take out over 20 billion in loans to keep the low unemployment rate in the crisis. Sorry, I'd rather have the high unemployment rate then make my children slaves to international finance.

It is really up to the Serbian people whether they want to join the EU or not but I can guarantee there will not be any new members within the next 18 months. After that the Hague will cease to exist so there will be nothing to co-operate with.

if the dutch know where mladic is they should cooperate with serbia and help arrest him. all other countries are already convinced that serbia is fully cooperating with the hague tribunal, so this is just because this issue is important in dutch internal affairs. a forign minister who says that serbia cooperates fully will come under fire in the dutch parliament no matter whether it's true or not. but he will have to change his stance sooner or later. there is not much pressure on holland from other countries at the moment since there are too many problems in the eu and they are not in a hurry to integrate more countries, but that won't last forever.

I am so sick of these self-righteous Dutch.

Blah, blah, blah. . .Mladic. . .blah, blah, blah. . Srebrenica.

Had the Dutch peacekeepers done their job in Srebrenica and enforce its safe haven status thereby restricting the muslims under Oric to massacre over 3,000 Serbian villagers. . .then there wouldn't be any "Srebrenica" and those muslim soldiers wouldn't have had to die!

This "tough" stance on Serbia by the Dutch is simply a pathetic and juvenile effort to place the blame of their failures in protecting all civilians in Srebrenica onto someone else.

Grow up and get lost! We need the Dutch and the EU like we need another hole in our heads.

Fantastic!
That would be the definition of the term "do it Dutchy way" : Verhagen would love to discuss promotion of the Dutch trade with Serbia, read sell us their junk, but on the other side he is not interested to address the hottest issue between two countries.
Must say real TOP diplomat and real TOP peace of Dutch diplomacy. Either they consider us complete idiots or they are not entitled to do the job they are doing? I was kinda thinking that elected “ TOP” diplomats are there to resolve the major questions in the relation of the countries involved and that they are leaving the talks about flowers and strawberries to someone else and elsewhere?
Real issue is that Dutch do know that they are diplomatically isolated in EU with their unilateral and hypocritical stance concerning Serbia's cooperation with Hague Tribunal and that they are not having any logical and humane arguments for further blocking Serbia’s development and prosperity of our nation.
For Verhagen’s and Dutch genuine barbaric and disrespectful diplomatic action adequate respond from Serbian side should be seize of diplomatic relations. As soon as better.

This is pathetic. What planet does he live on. Does he honestly believe he will come to Belgrade and the ICTY shouldn't be discussed, especially as he is the one blocking the SAA. It shows a complete arrogance and misunderstanding towards Serbia. He is such a sensitive baby. Good riddance!

Adrian

Your low unemployment rate is due to the mass exodus of young Romanians to Western Europe where they are needed to clean the streets and toilets. Granted they will earn more doing that than they would if they stayed at home, but I don’t think that this is much of an achievement. In 30 years Timisoara will be a ghost town or, more likely, it will be re-populated by even cheaper labour from the Third World.

Is this the only good thing you can say about the EU?

Sounds like lack of communication. Where was the agenda for the 21st before it all went public? Possibly there was a lack of interest in the visit in the first place. Hence....

"Could one of the EU-lovers who read this site please explain what benefit the EU will bring to the citizens of Serbia? It would be useful if you could illuminate your response with an example from say, Romania or Bulgaria, showing how the EU has helped improve the lives of ordinary people.
(Michael Thomas, 10 July 2009 13:46)"

Yes, mister Thomas,i can. In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".

What is to be expected. The Dutch aren't interest in "full co-operation".

The Dutch had the most despicable role in the war. Selling weapons to Bosnian Serbs, the Muslims and to the Croats.

Not only that but the Dutch are more interested with coming out with a "clear conscience"

Real issue is that Dutch do know that they are diplomatically isolated in EU with their unilateral and hypocritical stance concerning Serbia's cooperation with Hague Tribunal and that they are not having any logical and humane arguments for further blocking Serbia’s development and prosperity of our nation.
For Verhagen’s and Dutch genuine barbaric and disrespectful diplomatic action adequate respond from Serbian side should be seize of diplomatic relations. As soon as better.
(dean van der serbia)

Wow, that's strong meat!! 'Holland isolated in the EU'; 'Hypocritical stance', 'Dutch genuine barbaric and disrespectful diplomatic action' etc. Maybe it is the only way to counter your country: Isolated on the Balkans, hypocritical in facing their war-crimes, and still not admitting their barbaric and disrespectful acts at the end of the 20th. century.

The only thing that must be clear is that the 16,5 Million Dutch doesn't give a damn what is happening with Serbia, it was never important for them and it will never be in the future. Though what we know is what happened in Srebrenica, and who the perpetrators are. We weren't so hypocritical, as that we admitted having acted wrong by letting Mladic into the safe-zone. We know that we have to bear a part of 'guilt', but if I am reading some of the comments of some Serbians, I am glad that my government keeps his stance. When I read stories in which Serbs are claiming that they were the victims in Srebrenica or the whole fact is denied - and I notice that the amount of deniers is not low in Serbia - I am aware that reconciliation is still far away.
Only one remark: It was known that Verhagen would come based on his agenda. The problem is that this DS-government every day needs his success-story. At moments like this they forget that the words that they are talking to their people to comfort them, are also taken up by the international media. I think that Verhagen didn’t like that his visit has been taken for the political propaganda of the DS-government. The handing over of Mladic to The Hague is the only sign of Serbia’s complete commitment.

Nemanja: “Had the Dutch peacekeepers done their job in Srebrenica and enforce its safe haven status thereby restricting the muslims under Oric to massacre over 3,000 Serbian villagers. . .then there wouldn't be any "Srebrenica" and those muslim soldiers wouldn't have had to die!”
Please stop putting the blame on others for what happened in Srebrenica. Did the Dutch plan and order Serb soldiers to do what they did? Did Serb soldiers not know that massacring people is an even thing? It is really sad justifying the Srebrenica massacre as you do it in your post, while the whole world knows what really happened (that the masaccred are young boys and girls, women and elders),and who is to be blamed.

Hey adrian,timisaora

Isn't the obnly reason Romania has such a low unemployment rate because many of it's industries (particularly government bureaucracy, railways and post) contain at least twice the number of workers they should and because 20% of your labour force (over 2 million people) have left Romania.

Not only that but isn't Romania expected to lose 400,000 jobs (something like 4.5% of the labour force).

Oh and I checked the figure you claimed. Romania has 4% unemployment, expect to double in 2008.

Oh well. I guess Romania can continue keeping these figures down by taking out a $20 billion loan again as it did earlier this year.

Also. If Verhogen wants economic co-operation the Dutch should immediately shutdown the Dutch registered accounts used by the likes of Miksovic and Beko to buy Serbian companies, avoid litigation for monopoly and evade taxes.

@@@ by cees

"...The only thing that must be clear is that the 16,5 Million Dutch doesn't give a damn what is happening with Serbia, it was never important for them and it will never be in the future... I am glad that my government keeps his stance...

(cees, 11 July 2009 00:09)


Hee, hee...and well,well...
Further comment is not particularly needed.
We just have had the "opening of the heart" from at least one from 16.5 Million Dutch!
So they are not, neither they will ever be interested in any sense in Serbia, but they want us to comply???
Does it sound extreme arrogant maybe?
That Is exactly Verhagen's and Dutch Government stance on Serbia now too.
Seizing the diplomatic relation with this Government is only moral option for Serbia...

ill tell you what benefits the EU will bring micheal thomas . people like my girlfriend and her friends will have the freedom to travel to visit friends in paris , london etc etc without having to stand in a que in the rain for 3 hrs just to try to get a visa ! if you live in the UK or western europe you take free travel for granted or are not even aware serb citizens have to go to such bother . you or others may not be interested in traveling , visiting interesting citys and cultures but many are ... thats what the EU will bring . and anyone who is against EU intergration is above all .. SELFISH amongst other things . its got nothing to do with money .

Yes, mister Thomas,i can. In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".
(adrian, timisoara, 10 July 2009 16:18)

Adrian, compare it with an other neighbor country which is in EU - but successfully mated Albanian salaries with Swedish taxation. You have a very simple, predictable tax system which only an idiot can't calculate. You have one of the lowest taxes in EU (maybe the lowest?). And this somehow does help a lot to keep the jobless rate low.

That is more important than EU.

Too bad. I don't blame the Dutch though, if that is indeed the reason. (Agreed agenda not what Serbia talked about in public).

Afterall, Serbia is not going to Croatia for the same reasons. So don't call Serbia names about the Croatian agenda if you are not going to call the Dutch names for this. If you are going to call the Dutch names for this, then you need to call Serbia names for the Croatian meeting as well.

Cees - I so wish this was the case. Leave us alone and get off our backs!

@Cees
If you "dont give a damn what is going
on in Serbia" why do you visit this site?
Ask your own soldiers who served in
Srebrenica for their opinon about
Naser Oric´s "free zone".
Dank je wel!

(cees, 11 July 2009 00:09)
oh please, get off your high horse. you say you accepted a part of guilt, but let me remind you that serbia was under economic sanctions and was eventually bombed and is still being blocked from entering the eu. in what way was holland punished for its admittedly minor role? did the dutch suffer in any other way apart from bad conscience (and how many individuals really care)? and let's not forget that we are talking here about collective punishment which affected mostly the innocent people in serbia. do you ever think about that when judging that country? does serbia need even more collective punishment?

and while it does seem that there are still many serbs who are in denial about srebrenica i have the impression that the fact that this issue is so politicised is one of the major factors in this. i think war crimes are being abused for political purposes by all sides and the dutch are contributing here in a negative way big time.

yes, the dutch were hypocritical and you are being hypocritical as individual right there.

and to serbs here: please own up! it is irrelevant that some people from the other side may had killed serbian civilians, it does not justify the massacre in any way. i mean, in what way does it look better if it was an act of revenge?

I dont know how serbs can travel to EU when they don't have money to pay for their tickets,farest place they can go is croatia and montenegro since in kosovo they need visas.

...do you think that well informed “ear and eye” will buy the acceptance of Dutch responsibility for Srebrenica disaster by so called “resignation” of Dutch Government years later after Srebrenica massacre and only two weeks after normal scheduled Dutch elections...

note typing mistake: instead "two weeks after" should be "two weeks before".

Yes, mister Thomas,i can. In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".
(adrian, timisoara, 10 July 2009 16:18)

Wow, how impressive. We should all move from Australia to Timisoara because the unemployment rate here is 5.9% and rising.

Better still we should join EU, even though we don't live there. We cannot cope with unemployment rate over 2% any longer.

"In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".
adrian, timisoara

In Sweden 600.000 thousand people are unemployed out of a population of 9 million. According to latest figures 11% are without work and it's rising by the day. So, Rumania has a 2% unemployment and Western Europe 8%-15%. Yeah! Keep dreaming!

Hi!
MikeC, I think that my fellow countryman made it very clear that he is refering to Timisoara, were indeed, like Bucharest, unemployment is around 2%. Of course that is not the situation in other areas, but consideration should also be given to other ways of remunerating labor (free lance) or very small antreprenorship or agricultural activities (I don't envy those people at all). Overall forecast for Romania in bleak 2009, was around 8% for mid year. Presently, at mid year, is around 6.8%.

Ataman,
Your words are very kind towards the Ro taxation system, but except of a single low rate on income/profit tax of 16%, there are some other indirect taxes and bureaucratic procedures that bring a lot of shade on the advantage you mentioned.

My personal opinion is that Serbia would be fine in EU, but I also know that citizens of Serbia should be the only ones deciding on that. There are pluses and minuses. Of course don't expect, like some in my country probably did, to be raining with money.
When balancing, serbians should also picture the country on a NO to EU scenario, cause (except the romantics) it might happen that serbians, even against what their heart is saying, would have to choose EU for pragmatic reasons.

@@@ by cees

"...Only one remark: It was known that Verhagen would come based on his agenda. The problem is that this DS-government every day needs his success-story. At moments like this they forget that the words that they are talking to their people to comfort them, are also taken up by the international media. I think that Verhagen didn’t like that his visit has been taken for the political propaganda of the DS-government. The handing over of Mladic to The Hague is the only sign of Serbia’s complete commitment.

(cees, 11 July 2009 00:09)


Answer: Serbian DS “needs” every day success-story just as equal as any other party in your country and Dutch Parliament.
Concerning your claim that Verhagen was willing to come only “based on his agenda”, let me allow to add the note to you that it is clear insult of the brain: major issue in Serbian inner and foreign politics is Dutch unilateral blockade of Serbian EU integration, but Dutch diplomacy and FM, upon their potential visit to Serbia, does not want to discuss the matter??? Haven’t heard for bigger NONSENSE lately.
In reality it is continuation of 14 years of Dutch diplomatic cover-up operation for Srebrenica debacle: do you think that well informed “ear and eye” will buy the acceptance of Dutch responsibility for Srebrenica disaster by so called “resignation” of Dutch Government years later after Srebrenica massacre and only two weeks after normal scheduled Dutch elections, or maybe by Dutch relevant Commission writing of wage report which stop very short of accepting the blame for failure in Srebrenica and adds up to cover-up or by the FACT that Dutch soldiers and officers “from Srebrenica” all have received “the medals for their bravery” from Her Royal Majesty?!?!
Dutch cover-up operation continues and this undiplomatic and nonsense act by Verhagen and Dutch Government is just the step and the act in the same direction.

of course romania has 2 % unemployment ... every romanian and his dog is here in my city cleaning it ... no man power left in romania . i think i will have to shift from my nice west london flat to romania because it is such a prosperous country , thanks for enlightening me .

get real .

Good job Nedherlands. Never et Serbia in EU without catching Mladic, recognize Kosovo and apoplige to all it's neighbours for what Serbia has done to their land and people.

The Dutch claim that neither of those two themes were on the agreed agenda.

Very funny what is going onlately with serb politicians.
What they say publicly and the reality are so far apart.
If they keep up this game, hardly anybody will come to visit Belgrade.

Well its good to see that the Dutch are so open and willing to enter into discussions on any subject as long as the subject covers the potential for economic gains to themselves from closer trade ties. So Serbia works like a dog to try and fulfill all the requirements that are thrust upon her by the international community and when she tries to explain the nature of all her hard work to the one country who refuses to acknowledge it, she is snubbed and the Dutch act like a sulking child and postpone the meeting altogether. What a mature and professional approach from the Dutch(I dont think)

Dutch FM is fed up with Serbian lies.

He relised that new lies are being cooked in Belgrade for Serbia's cooperation with ICTY so no wonder he cancells.

Bring Mladic to the Hague the Dutch PM & FM will come to visit Serbia WITHOUT hesitation....

The great lords of Serbia who talk in the name of other countrys, arent they mingeling in others internal affairs? Its Serbia that has to negotiate, not Holland.
Like this is looks that no Kosovo, and no EU.

well this should be very clear signal from the dutch we do not want serbia in the eu ,,,,


mr tadic it is now the time to start getting your house in order republoka srpska ,north kosovo to join serbia proper and make milorad dodik your new prime minister of grater serbia ,all the writing is on the wall now cause the dutch just punched you in the nose .zivela srbija

Thank you Holland for your determined stance against (actually FOR) Serbia. It is a blessing for us that Holland is blocking our entrance into the EU circles and the SAA agreement. Serbia does not deserve to be fooled to join an organization (EU) which only wants to "use" Serbia and reduce her sovereignty as a nation. And once you "get in", it's almost impossible to get out....ask Great Britain! So again....opet hvala to our true friends, the Dutch!!!

Fantastic!
That would be the definition of the term "do it Dutchy way" : Verhagen would love to discuss promotion of the Dutch trade with Serbia, read sell us their junk, but on the other side he is not interested to address the hottest issue between two countries.
Must say real TOP diplomat and real TOP peace of Dutch diplomacy. Either they consider us complete idiots or they are not entitled to do the job they are doing? I was kinda thinking that elected “ TOP” diplomats are there to resolve the major questions in the relation of the countries involved and that they are leaving the talks about flowers and strawberries to someone else and elsewhere?
Real issue is that Dutch do know that they are diplomatically isolated in EU with their unilateral and hypocritical stance concerning Serbia's cooperation with Hague Tribunal and that they are not having any logical and humane arguments for further blocking Serbia’s development and prosperity of our nation.
For Verhagen’s and Dutch genuine barbaric and disrespectful diplomatic action adequate respond from Serbian side should be seize of diplomatic relations. As soon as better.

Could one of the EU-lovers who read this site please explain what benefit the EU will bring to the citizens of Serbia? It would be useful if you could illuminate your response with an example from say, Romania or Bulgaria, showing how the EU has helped improve the lives of ordinary people.

"Could one of the EU-lovers who read this site please explain what benefit the EU will bring to the citizens of Serbia? It would be useful if you could illuminate your response with an example from say, Romania or Bulgaria, showing how the EU has helped improve the lives of ordinary people.
(Michael Thomas, 10 July 2009 13:46)"

Yes, mister Thomas,i can. In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".

I am so sick of these self-righteous Dutch.

Blah, blah, blah. . .Mladic. . .blah, blah, blah. . Srebrenica.

Had the Dutch peacekeepers done their job in Srebrenica and enforce its safe haven status thereby restricting the muslims under Oric to massacre over 3,000 Serbian villagers. . .then there wouldn't be any "Srebrenica" and those muslim soldiers wouldn't have had to die!

This "tough" stance on Serbia by the Dutch is simply a pathetic and juvenile effort to place the blame of their failures in protecting all civilians in Srebrenica onto someone else.

Grow up and get lost! We need the Dutch and the EU like we need another hole in our heads.

Too bad. I don't blame the Dutch though, if that is indeed the reason. (Agreed agenda not what Serbia talked about in public).

Afterall, Serbia is not going to Croatia for the same reasons. So don't call Serbia names about the Croatian agenda if you are not going to call the Dutch names for this. If you are going to call the Dutch names for this, then you need to call Serbia names for the Croatian meeting as well.

Real issue is that Dutch do know that they are diplomatically isolated in EU with their unilateral and hypocritical stance concerning Serbia's cooperation with Hague Tribunal and that they are not having any logical and humane arguments for further blocking Serbia’s development and prosperity of our nation.
For Verhagen’s and Dutch genuine barbaric and disrespectful diplomatic action adequate respond from Serbian side should be seize of diplomatic relations. As soon as better.
(dean van der serbia)

Wow, that's strong meat!! 'Holland isolated in the EU'; 'Hypocritical stance', 'Dutch genuine barbaric and disrespectful diplomatic action' etc. Maybe it is the only way to counter your country: Isolated on the Balkans, hypocritical in facing their war-crimes, and still not admitting their barbaric and disrespectful acts at the end of the 20th. century.

The only thing that must be clear is that the 16,5 Million Dutch doesn't give a damn what is happening with Serbia, it was never important for them and it will never be in the future. Though what we know is what happened in Srebrenica, and who the perpetrators are. We weren't so hypocritical, as that we admitted having acted wrong by letting Mladic into the safe-zone. We know that we have to bear a part of 'guilt', but if I am reading some of the comments of some Serbians, I am glad that my government keeps his stance. When I read stories in which Serbs are claiming that they were the victims in Srebrenica or the whole fact is denied - and I notice that the amount of deniers is not low in Serbia - I am aware that reconciliation is still far away.
Only one remark: It was known that Verhagen would come based on his agenda. The problem is that this DS-government every day needs his success-story. At moments like this they forget that the words that they are talking to their people to comfort them, are also taken up by the international media. I think that Verhagen didn’t like that his visit has been taken for the political propaganda of the DS-government. The handing over of Mladic to The Hague is the only sign of Serbia’s complete commitment.

if the dutch know where mladic is they should cooperate with serbia and help arrest him. all other countries are already convinced that serbia is fully cooperating with the hague tribunal, so this is just because this issue is important in dutch internal affairs. a forign minister who says that serbia cooperates fully will come under fire in the dutch parliament no matter whether it's true or not. but he will have to change his stance sooner or later. there is not much pressure on holland from other countries at the moment since there are too many problems in the eu and they are not in a hurry to integrate more countries, but that won't last forever.

It is really up to the Serbian people whether they want to join the EU or not but I can guarantee there will not be any new members within the next 18 months. After that the Hague will cease to exist so there will be nothing to co-operate with.

Maxime Verhagen stay home! By the way to all the Albanians who are Dutch lovers, the Dutch deport more Albanians than any other country in the world!

Sounds like lack of communication. Where was the agenda for the 21st before it all went public? Possibly there was a lack of interest in the visit in the first place. Hence....

What is to be expected. The Dutch aren't interest in "full co-operation".

The Dutch had the most despicable role in the war. Selling weapons to Bosnian Serbs, the Muslims and to the Croats.

Not only that but the Dutch are more interested with coming out with a "clear conscience"

To adrian, timisaora. Didn't Romania have to take out over 20 billion in loans to keep the low unemployment rate in the crisis. Sorry, I'd rather have the high unemployment rate then make my children slaves to international finance.

This is pathetic. What planet does he live on. Does he honestly believe he will come to Belgrade and the ICTY shouldn't be discussed, especially as he is the one blocking the SAA. It shows a complete arrogance and misunderstanding towards Serbia. He is such a sensitive baby. Good riddance!

Yes, mister Thomas,i can. In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".
(adrian, timisoara, 10 July 2009 16:18)

Adrian, compare it with an other neighbor country which is in EU - but successfully mated Albanian salaries with Swedish taxation. You have a very simple, predictable tax system which only an idiot can't calculate. You have one of the lowest taxes in EU (maybe the lowest?). And this somehow does help a lot to keep the jobless rate low.

That is more important than EU.

I dont know how serbs can travel to EU when they don't have money to pay for their tickets,farest place they can go is croatia and montenegro since in kosovo they need visas.

Adrian

Your low unemployment rate is due to the mass exodus of young Romanians to Western Europe where they are needed to clean the streets and toilets. Granted they will earn more doing that than they would if they stayed at home, but I don’t think that this is much of an achievement. In 30 years Timisoara will be a ghost town or, more likely, it will be re-populated by even cheaper labour from the Third World.

Is this the only good thing you can say about the EU?

Hey adrian,timisaora

Isn't the obnly reason Romania has such a low unemployment rate because many of it's industries (particularly government bureaucracy, railways and post) contain at least twice the number of workers they should and because 20% of your labour force (over 2 million people) have left Romania.

Not only that but isn't Romania expected to lose 400,000 jobs (something like 4.5% of the labour force).

Oh and I checked the figure you claimed. Romania has 4% unemployment, expect to double in 2008.

Oh well. I guess Romania can continue keeping these figures down by taking out a $20 billion loan again as it did earlier this year.

Nemanja: “Had the Dutch peacekeepers done their job in Srebrenica and enforce its safe haven status thereby restricting the muslims under Oric to massacre over 3,000 Serbian villagers. . .then there wouldn't be any "Srebrenica" and those muslim soldiers wouldn't have had to die!”
Please stop putting the blame on others for what happened in Srebrenica. Did the Dutch plan and order Serb soldiers to do what they did? Did Serb soldiers not know that massacring people is an even thing? It is really sad justifying the Srebrenica massacre as you do it in your post, while the whole world knows what really happened (that the masaccred are young boys and girls, women and elders),and who is to be blamed.

Yes, mister Thomas,i can. In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".
(adrian, timisoara, 10 July 2009 16:18)

Wow, how impressive. We should all move from Australia to Timisoara because the unemployment rate here is 5.9% and rising.

Better still we should join EU, even though we don't live there. We cannot cope with unemployment rate over 2% any longer.

(cees, 11 July 2009 00:09)
oh please, get off your high horse. you say you accepted a part of guilt, but let me remind you that serbia was under economic sanctions and was eventually bombed and is still being blocked from entering the eu. in what way was holland punished for its admittedly minor role? did the dutch suffer in any other way apart from bad conscience (and how many individuals really care)? and let's not forget that we are talking here about collective punishment which affected mostly the innocent people in serbia. do you ever think about that when judging that country? does serbia need even more collective punishment?

and while it does seem that there are still many serbs who are in denial about srebrenica i have the impression that the fact that this issue is so politicised is one of the major factors in this. i think war crimes are being abused for political purposes by all sides and the dutch are contributing here in a negative way big time.

yes, the dutch were hypocritical and you are being hypocritical as individual right there.

and to serbs here: please own up! it is irrelevant that some people from the other side may had killed serbian civilians, it does not justify the massacre in any way. i mean, in what way does it look better if it was an act of revenge?

@@@ by cees

"...The only thing that must be clear is that the 16,5 Million Dutch doesn't give a damn what is happening with Serbia, it was never important for them and it will never be in the future... I am glad that my government keeps his stance...

(cees, 11 July 2009 00:09)


Hee, hee...and well,well...
Further comment is not particularly needed.
We just have had the "opening of the heart" from at least one from 16.5 Million Dutch!
So they are not, neither they will ever be interested in any sense in Serbia, but they want us to comply???
Does it sound extreme arrogant maybe?
That Is exactly Verhagen's and Dutch Government stance on Serbia now too.
Seizing the diplomatic relation with this Government is only moral option for Serbia...

"In my city (Timisoara) they consider it a catastrophy that the unemployment rate went over 2%. In Novi Sad or Belgrade they would call that "heaven".
adrian, timisoara

In Sweden 600.000 thousand people are unemployed out of a population of 9 million. According to latest figures 11% are without work and it's rising by the day. So, Rumania has a 2% unemployment and Western Europe 8%-15%. Yeah! Keep dreaming!

Cees - I so wish this was the case. Leave us alone and get off our backs!

@Cees
If you "dont give a damn what is going
on in Serbia" why do you visit this site?
Ask your own soldiers who served in
Srebrenica for their opinon about
Naser Oric´s "free zone".
Dank je wel!

Also. If Verhogen wants economic co-operation the Dutch should immediately shutdown the Dutch registered accounts used by the likes of Miksovic and Beko to buy Serbian companies, avoid litigation for monopoly and evade taxes.

Hi!
MikeC, I think that my fellow countryman made it very clear that he is refering to Timisoara, were indeed, like Bucharest, unemployment is around 2%. Of course that is not the situation in other areas, but consideration should also be given to other ways of remunerating labor (free lance) or very small antreprenorship or agricultural activities (I don't envy those people at all). Overall forecast for Romania in bleak 2009, was around 8% for mid year. Presently, at mid year, is around 6.8%.

Ataman,
Your words are very kind towards the Ro taxation system, but except of a single low rate on income/profit tax of 16%, there are some other indirect taxes and bureaucratic procedures that bring a lot of shade on the advantage you mentioned.

My personal opinion is that Serbia would be fine in EU, but I also know that citizens of Serbia should be the only ones deciding on that. There are pluses and minuses. Of course don't expect, like some in my country probably did, to be raining with money.
When balancing, serbians should also picture the country on a NO to EU scenario, cause (except the romantics) it might happen that serbians, even against what their heart is saying, would have to choose EU for pragmatic reasons.

ill tell you what benefits the EU will bring micheal thomas . people like my girlfriend and her friends will have the freedom to travel to visit friends in paris , london etc etc without having to stand in a que in the rain for 3 hrs just to try to get a visa ! if you live in the UK or western europe you take free travel for granted or are not even aware serb citizens have to go to such bother . you or others may not be interested in traveling , visiting interesting citys and cultures but many are ... thats what the EU will bring . and anyone who is against EU intergration is above all .. SELFISH amongst other things . its got nothing to do with money .

@@@ by cees

"...Only one remark: It was known that Verhagen would come based on his agenda. The problem is that this DS-government every day needs his success-story. At moments like this they forget that the words that they are talking to their people to comfort them, are also taken up by the international media. I think that Verhagen didn’t like that his visit has been taken for the political propaganda of the DS-government. The handing over of Mladic to The Hague is the only sign of Serbia’s complete commitment.

(cees, 11 July 2009 00:09)


Answer: Serbian DS “needs” every day success-story just as equal as any other party in your country and Dutch Parliament.
Concerning your claim that Verhagen was willing to come only “based on his agenda”, let me allow to add the note to you that it is clear insult of the brain: major issue in Serbian inner and foreign politics is Dutch unilateral blockade of Serbian EU integration, but Dutch diplomacy and FM, upon their potential visit to Serbia, does not want to discuss the matter??? Haven’t heard for bigger NONSENSE lately.
In reality it is continuation of 14 years of Dutch diplomatic cover-up operation for Srebrenica debacle: do you think that well informed “ear and eye” will buy the acceptance of Dutch responsibility for Srebrenica disaster by so called “resignation” of Dutch Government years later after Srebrenica massacre and only two weeks after normal scheduled Dutch elections, or maybe by Dutch relevant Commission writing of wage report which stop very short of accepting the blame for failure in Srebrenica and adds up to cover-up or by the FACT that Dutch soldiers and officers “from Srebrenica” all have received “the medals for their bravery” from Her Royal Majesty?!?!
Dutch cover-up operation continues and this undiplomatic and nonsense act by Verhagen and Dutch Government is just the step and the act in the same direction.

...do you think that well informed “ear and eye” will buy the acceptance of Dutch responsibility for Srebrenica disaster by so called “resignation” of Dutch Government years later after Srebrenica massacre and only two weeks after normal scheduled Dutch elections...

note typing mistake: instead "two weeks after" should be "two weeks before".

of course romania has 2 % unemployment ... every romanian and his dog is here in my city cleaning it ... no man power left in romania . i think i will have to shift from my nice west london flat to romania because it is such a prosperous country , thanks for enlightening me .

get real .