“North Macedonia” could be back in mix

Just read the comment from the Greek sides. The real issue here isn't RoM's name. It's Greece's ambition to squash the Macedonian minority in Greece. By calling RoM something other than Macedonia, Greece will continue to deny the existance of the nationality of it's Greatest History figure, Alexander the Great Macedonian.
(sam)

Do you really want to learn about the history and culture
of ancient Macedonia?Then look beyond your landlocked borders into various libraries around the world to learn the real history of this great land and not the fabricated one of 60 years ago.

Another great source to you will be the recently made public state archives of Bulgaria and the archives of the Bulgarian communist party.Zhikov-the former president of Bulgaria and communist party chairman-admitts that the creation of Fyrom as an ideology was due to antagonisms between Tito and Bulgaria through their relations to Stalin.He concludes that the present inhabitants of Fyrom have no connections at all with antiquity.


Can you also tell us where all these Slav macedonians are hiding in the "Aegean Macedonia" as you call the real Greek Macedonia.Do not count the nearly 3 million Greek Macedonians as yours because we clearly have nothing to do with you.

What Gruevski and his coterie have been doing up to now is elevating folk tales to official history.Your culture and language is closer to Bulgarian and other Slavic languages pointing to roots of Slav tribal migrations about a millenium after Alexander.So have the decency and accept your real identity and stop manufacturing fake ones.

Time for the propagandists in FYROM to accept the deal and move on. To want to monopolize the word "macedonia" that way, by not accepting ANY change in the name that will include the term "macedonia" together with a geographical term (like North or Upper) only proves what Greece has been saying so far:

That their goal is to use the name macedonia in order to set future territorial (and other) claims over the greek region of macedonia. That's why they only want to be called "macedonia" and not other. Because if there is ONE macedonia then they can say "we want the greek land that belongs to macedonia as well". That's why Greece insists on two macedonias. North macedonia and south (the Greek one). Distinct and clear - not allowing the nationalists of VMRO in FYROM to set any claims. No more "space" to the nationalistic Slavs of Fyrom to behave like a 18th century balkan state. They have absolutely nothing to do with "macedonia" anyway.

macedonians, along with albanians seem to be the most confused people in the world.

macedonian slavs have nothing to do with alex the great, just like albanians have nothing to do with illyrians.

read some books people!

"In 1945 the population was declared Macedonian by Tito, a nationality different from both Serbs and Bulgarians. The decision was politically motivated and aimed at weakening the position of Serbia within Yugoslavia and of Bulgaria with regard to Yugoslavia. Surnames were again changed to include the ending '-ski', which was to emphasize the unique nature of the ethnic Macedonian population"

I wish people from Fyrom who lived there in 1945 would come forward and admit that Fyrom is in fact an artificial state, that even their surnames are just as artificial as the state they live now!

If I was Greek, I would be ashamed to admit I was afraid of a small, poor country with less than a fifth of your population. Do you really think Macedonia will invade? And if you're afraid of the Macedonians, then 3 million Albanians next door must fill you with terror. Whatever happened to the Greeks of Thermopylae and Marathon?

"We don't hear the Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians etc, deny that Albanians are one of the oldest people leaving in the Balkans way before the big Slavic migration."
Al

The Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians don't care about the ilirians becasue they don't have any albanians in their countries trying to steal parts of their territory. What proof do you have of the ilirian culture? Any findings of this ancient ilirian culture? No! There is absolutely nothing to support your claim. It must be the only people in the world that didn't leave any trace at all of their existence. It's a made up story to justify stealing someone elses territory, in this case Kosovo.

(macedonians, along with albanians seem to be the most confused people in the world.

macedonian slavs have nothing to do with alex the great, just like albanians have nothing to do with illyrians.)
StariVujadin
As far as Albanians are concerned, the confusion comes from the Serbs. We don't hear the Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians etc, deny that Albanians are one of the oldest people leaving in the Balkans way before the big Slavic migration. Only the Serbs dont accept the fact (I wonder why). I know we dont get along very well and i wont expect any better from your version of history. It does not suit you for the Albanians to be Ilyrian but hey, big deal we can live with that.

We don't hear the Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians etc, deny that Albanians are one of the oldest people leaving in the Balkans way before the big Slavic migration.
(Al, 7 July 2009 20:30)

A big majority of Serbs does not deny it. There is a confusion because of Lezgian Kingdom had a similar name in Caucasus, but it takes about one minute to prove, Lezgians have nothing to do with Shqips.

Once it is proven, the rest of Serbs has no objection because it is beyond reasonable doubt.

--------------

It does not suit you for the Albanians to be Ilyrian
(Al, 7 July 2009 20:30)

But this part is not correct. There is no proof, Albanians have direct connection to Illyrians. Balkan was much more than only Illyrians and Greeks. There were Celts, Thracians, Dacians. Plus later Roman colonies. Plus later Huns, Avars and of course Slavs.

Many scolars argue, Albanian language has more Thracian than Illyrian roots.

--------------

but hey, big deal we can live with that.
(Al, 7 July 2009 20:30)

Ok, I just can't get what is wrong to be 50% Thracian and 50% Celt instead of 100% Illyrian? Thracians and Celts were settled on Balkans as far as written history goes.

Just read the comment from the Greek sides. The real issue here isn't RoM's name. It's Greece's ambition to squash the Macedonian minority in Greece. By calling RoM something other than Macedonia, Greece will continue to deny the existance of the nationality of it's Greatest History figure, Alexander the Great Macedonian.

Can you also tell us where all these Slav macedonians are hiding in the "Aegean Macedonia" as you call the real Greek Macedonia.
(Leonidas, 7 July 2009 16:38)

Like the Huns, Avars and others before: inside of you. Most of us came on horseback with spears and bows. On the periphery of Hellenic influence at least we managed to keep other languages, but not much more than that. Who came way to close to the center was assimilated 100%.

What proof do you have of the ilirian culture? Any findings of this ancient ilirian culture? No! There is absolutely nothing to support your claim. It must be the only people in the world that didn't leave any trace at all of their existence. It's a made up story to justify stealing someone elses territory, in this case Kosovo.

(MikeC, 7 July 2009 22:47)

Like the Daco-Roman theory, there are some traces: pottery, jewelry, ornaments, graves, linguistic fragments and Greek stories. These people did exist, but their evolution was thousands of years behind what Hellas or Rome did master.

They were excellent sea navigators and pirates tough.

An other "suspicious" group are the Italians in Calabria. "Calabri" is a name of one of autocon tribes which is reported to be Illyrian and indeed, Calabria has people who speak Albanian dialect. I do not know about them migrating recently, it could be a while ago, maybe millenia ago or maybe they lived there since ever.

In any event, claiming 100% Illyrian is not correct because not all Illyrians became Albanians and Albanian language said to be rather Thracian.

I'm not happy when the Greeko-FYROM isue comes up includes also Albanians due to the people we're living with,Macedonians are ancient people like any other balcan tribe and have nothing to do with slavic population exept territorial part they are in,if there was indeed Macedonians living in FYROM they would be still talking their mother languge like the Albanians across the balcan,although can't rule out that somebody actually got assimilated but that it's not a reason to claim history based on that.
P.S Ataman,Albanians don't have any problem with Thracian or Celtic connections it's just that there's more connection on the Ilyrian than in anybody,if that was to be taken into account we would be Greeks too for that matter because of Greek colonies or vice versa.

To all greek nationalists. It is truly remarkable the lack of knowledge greeks display of their own(greek) history let alone that of another country(Republic of Macedonia).
NOWHERE AT ANY TIME! I will repeat, NOWHERE AT ANY TIME have Macedonia and greece been referred to as one. They have always been two separate and different lands. Greece annexed Macedonian land in 1913 (after the partition of Macedonia) the same way they annexed Thessaly in 1881.
In fact, between 1913 and August of 1988, it was Illegal and forbidden to say the word MACEDONIA and any reference to MACECONIAN was ILLEGAL in greece. Suddenly in 1988, the greeks fell in love with Macedonia and everything about it.
Is it possible for any greek to clear this up? What happened during this 75 years. Torture, prison, harrassment, and even murder is what happened. The victims are all who would mention anything Macedonian let alone claim they were Macedonian. And now what do we have? A greek who suddenly loves everything about Macedonia. What a joke.
ALL GREEK NATIONALISTS CLAIM KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY WHEN THEY CLEARLY DISPLAY THIER LACK OF IT.
LEONIDAS AND PAVLOS are clearly misinformed and lack the ability to find the truth. Nikitas was in that group but it seems he expanded his mind and found documents which showed that their claims were false and therefore stopped spreading false information.
To his nationalist pals I would recomment two books. The first is "MACEDONIA AND GREECE" written by John Shea, and the other is "MACEDONIA AND THE MACEDONIANS" by Andrew Rossos. In case you don't recognise it Rossos is a greek name.
These are just two books of many that clearly show GREECE HAS USERPED MACEDONIA'S HISTORY AND NAME.
They are evidence that could not be influenced by the greek nationalist propaganda machine. These writers studied the archives if countries such as France, Britian, Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia and many others. GREECE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO DENY THEM ACCESS TO greek archives. I ask and so should all greek nationalist what it is they are hiding. In fact, I would challenge any greek to try to study the archives in greece and see the reception they get. I bet you will be denied and harrassed by your own gov't.
The greeks fear the truth because they know the ethnic cleansing and torture they committed during the brief 75 years would be uncovered. Hundreds of thousands of Macedonians suffered and do to this day at the hands of the greeks.
The greeks simply deny this. I would challenge anyone to try to reach and study the greek archives to find the greek side of this as these authors did. Many of these nationalists are just trying to spread the greek misinformation and false propaganda of their gov't. The truth is out there though and will prevail.
MACEDONIA WAS AND WILL BE AND INDEPENDENT COUNTRY WITH IT'S CONSTITUTIONAL NAME " REPULIC OF MACEDONIA". The greeks are just gonna have to live with that because their lies are no longer believed.
As for the farmer in Brazil, I would hope that your knowledge of farming is better than your knowledge of history. If it is not, then you may be on the road to starvation.
"Republic of Macedonia" is a name that ONLY greeks dispute out of fear of the truth.

Just read the comment from the Greek sides. The real issue here isn't RoM's name. It's Greece's ambition to squash the Macedonian minority in Greece. By calling RoM something other than Macedonia, Greece will continue to deny the existance of the nationality of it's Greatest History figure, Alexander the Great Macedonian.

If I was Greek, I would be ashamed to admit I was afraid of a small, poor country with less than a fifth of your population. Do you really think Macedonia will invade? And if you're afraid of the Macedonians, then 3 million Albanians next door must fill you with terror. Whatever happened to the Greeks of Thermopylae and Marathon?

Time for the propagandists in FYROM to accept the deal and move on. To want to monopolize the word "macedonia" that way, by not accepting ANY change in the name that will include the term "macedonia" together with a geographical term (like North or Upper) only proves what Greece has been saying so far:

That their goal is to use the name macedonia in order to set future territorial (and other) claims over the greek region of macedonia. That's why they only want to be called "macedonia" and not other. Because if there is ONE macedonia then they can say "we want the greek land that belongs to macedonia as well". That's why Greece insists on two macedonias. North macedonia and south (the Greek one). Distinct and clear - not allowing the nationalists of VMRO in FYROM to set any claims. No more "space" to the nationalistic Slavs of Fyrom to behave like a 18th century balkan state. They have absolutely nothing to do with "macedonia" anyway.

macedonians, along with albanians seem to be the most confused people in the world.

macedonian slavs have nothing to do with alex the great, just like albanians have nothing to do with illyrians.

read some books people!

(macedonians, along with albanians seem to be the most confused people in the world.

macedonian slavs have nothing to do with alex the great, just like albanians have nothing to do with illyrians.)
StariVujadin
As far as Albanians are concerned, the confusion comes from the Serbs. We don't hear the Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians etc, deny that Albanians are one of the oldest people leaving in the Balkans way before the big Slavic migration. Only the Serbs dont accept the fact (I wonder why). I know we dont get along very well and i wont expect any better from your version of history. It does not suit you for the Albanians to be Ilyrian but hey, big deal we can live with that.

Can you also tell us where all these Slav macedonians are hiding in the "Aegean Macedonia" as you call the real Greek Macedonia.
(Leonidas, 7 July 2009 16:38)

Like the Huns, Avars and others before: inside of you. Most of us came on horseback with spears and bows. On the periphery of Hellenic influence at least we managed to keep other languages, but not much more than that. Who came way to close to the center was assimilated 100%.

"In 1945 the population was declared Macedonian by Tito, a nationality different from both Serbs and Bulgarians. The decision was politically motivated and aimed at weakening the position of Serbia within Yugoslavia and of Bulgaria with regard to Yugoslavia. Surnames were again changed to include the ending '-ski', which was to emphasize the unique nature of the ethnic Macedonian population"

I wish people from Fyrom who lived there in 1945 would come forward and admit that Fyrom is in fact an artificial state, that even their surnames are just as artificial as the state they live now!

Just read the comment from the Greek sides. The real issue here isn't RoM's name. It's Greece's ambition to squash the Macedonian minority in Greece. By calling RoM something other than Macedonia, Greece will continue to deny the existance of the nationality of it's Greatest History figure, Alexander the Great Macedonian.
(sam)

Do you really want to learn about the history and culture
of ancient Macedonia?Then look beyond your landlocked borders into various libraries around the world to learn the real history of this great land and not the fabricated one of 60 years ago.

Another great source to you will be the recently made public state archives of Bulgaria and the archives of the Bulgarian communist party.Zhikov-the former president of Bulgaria and communist party chairman-admitts that the creation of Fyrom as an ideology was due to antagonisms between Tito and Bulgaria through their relations to Stalin.He concludes that the present inhabitants of Fyrom have no connections at all with antiquity.


Can you also tell us where all these Slav macedonians are hiding in the "Aegean Macedonia" as you call the real Greek Macedonia.Do not count the nearly 3 million Greek Macedonians as yours because we clearly have nothing to do with you.

What Gruevski and his coterie have been doing up to now is elevating folk tales to official history.Your culture and language is closer to Bulgarian and other Slavic languages pointing to roots of Slav tribal migrations about a millenium after Alexander.So have the decency and accept your real identity and stop manufacturing fake ones.

I'm not happy when the Greeko-FYROM isue comes up includes also Albanians due to the people we're living with,Macedonians are ancient people like any other balcan tribe and have nothing to do with slavic population exept territorial part they are in,if there was indeed Macedonians living in FYROM they would be still talking their mother languge like the Albanians across the balcan,although can't rule out that somebody actually got assimilated but that it's not a reason to claim history based on that.
P.S Ataman,Albanians don't have any problem with Thracian or Celtic connections it's just that there's more connection on the Ilyrian than in anybody,if that was to be taken into account we would be Greeks too for that matter because of Greek colonies or vice versa.

"We don't hear the Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians etc, deny that Albanians are one of the oldest people leaving in the Balkans way before the big Slavic migration."
Al

The Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians don't care about the ilirians becasue they don't have any albanians in their countries trying to steal parts of their territory. What proof do you have of the ilirian culture? Any findings of this ancient ilirian culture? No! There is absolutely nothing to support your claim. It must be the only people in the world that didn't leave any trace at all of their existence. It's a made up story to justify stealing someone elses territory, in this case Kosovo.

We don't hear the Greeks, Croatians, Bulgarians etc, deny that Albanians are one of the oldest people leaving in the Balkans way before the big Slavic migration.
(Al, 7 July 2009 20:30)

A big majority of Serbs does not deny it. There is a confusion because of Lezgian Kingdom had a similar name in Caucasus, but it takes about one minute to prove, Lezgians have nothing to do with Shqips.

Once it is proven, the rest of Serbs has no objection because it is beyond reasonable doubt.

--------------

It does not suit you for the Albanians to be Ilyrian
(Al, 7 July 2009 20:30)

But this part is not correct. There is no proof, Albanians have direct connection to Illyrians. Balkan was much more than only Illyrians and Greeks. There were Celts, Thracians, Dacians. Plus later Roman colonies. Plus later Huns, Avars and of course Slavs.

Many scolars argue, Albanian language has more Thracian than Illyrian roots.

--------------

but hey, big deal we can live with that.
(Al, 7 July 2009 20:30)

Ok, I just can't get what is wrong to be 50% Thracian and 50% Celt instead of 100% Illyrian? Thracians and Celts were settled on Balkans as far as written history goes.

What proof do you have of the ilirian culture? Any findings of this ancient ilirian culture? No! There is absolutely nothing to support your claim. It must be the only people in the world that didn't leave any trace at all of their existence. It's a made up story to justify stealing someone elses territory, in this case Kosovo.

(MikeC, 7 July 2009 22:47)

Like the Daco-Roman theory, there are some traces: pottery, jewelry, ornaments, graves, linguistic fragments and Greek stories. These people did exist, but their evolution was thousands of years behind what Hellas or Rome did master.

They were excellent sea navigators and pirates tough.

An other "suspicious" group are the Italians in Calabria. "Calabri" is a name of one of autocon tribes which is reported to be Illyrian and indeed, Calabria has people who speak Albanian dialect. I do not know about them migrating recently, it could be a while ago, maybe millenia ago or maybe they lived there since ever.

In any event, claiming 100% Illyrian is not correct because not all Illyrians became Albanians and Albanian language said to be rather Thracian.

To all greek nationalists. It is truly remarkable the lack of knowledge greeks display of their own(greek) history let alone that of another country(Republic of Macedonia).
NOWHERE AT ANY TIME! I will repeat, NOWHERE AT ANY TIME have Macedonia and greece been referred to as one. They have always been two separate and different lands. Greece annexed Macedonian land in 1913 (after the partition of Macedonia) the same way they annexed Thessaly in 1881.
In fact, between 1913 and August of 1988, it was Illegal and forbidden to say the word MACEDONIA and any reference to MACECONIAN was ILLEGAL in greece. Suddenly in 1988, the greeks fell in love with Macedonia and everything about it.
Is it possible for any greek to clear this up? What happened during this 75 years. Torture, prison, harrassment, and even murder is what happened. The victims are all who would mention anything Macedonian let alone claim they were Macedonian. And now what do we have? A greek who suddenly loves everything about Macedonia. What a joke.
ALL GREEK NATIONALISTS CLAIM KNOWLEDGE OF HISTORY WHEN THEY CLEARLY DISPLAY THIER LACK OF IT.
LEONIDAS AND PAVLOS are clearly misinformed and lack the ability to find the truth. Nikitas was in that group but it seems he expanded his mind and found documents which showed that their claims were false and therefore stopped spreading false information.
To his nationalist pals I would recomment two books. The first is "MACEDONIA AND GREECE" written by John Shea, and the other is "MACEDONIA AND THE MACEDONIANS" by Andrew Rossos. In case you don't recognise it Rossos is a greek name.
These are just two books of many that clearly show GREECE HAS USERPED MACEDONIA'S HISTORY AND NAME.
They are evidence that could not be influenced by the greek nationalist propaganda machine. These writers studied the archives if countries such as France, Britian, Russia, Bulgaria, Serbia and many others. GREECE WAS THE ONLY ONE TO DENY THEM ACCESS TO greek archives. I ask and so should all greek nationalist what it is they are hiding. In fact, I would challenge any greek to try to study the archives in greece and see the reception they get. I bet you will be denied and harrassed by your own gov't.
The greeks fear the truth because they know the ethnic cleansing and torture they committed during the brief 75 years would be uncovered. Hundreds of thousands of Macedonians suffered and do to this day at the hands of the greeks.
The greeks simply deny this. I would challenge anyone to try to reach and study the greek archives to find the greek side of this as these authors did. Many of these nationalists are just trying to spread the greek misinformation and false propaganda of their gov't. The truth is out there though and will prevail.
MACEDONIA WAS AND WILL BE AND INDEPENDENT COUNTRY WITH IT'S CONSTITUTIONAL NAME " REPULIC OF MACEDONIA". The greeks are just gonna have to live with that because their lies are no longer believed.
As for the farmer in Brazil, I would hope that your knowledge of farming is better than your knowledge of history. If it is not, then you may be on the road to starvation.
"Republic of Macedonia" is a name that ONLY greeks dispute out of fear of the truth.