Committee reacts to rising road deaths

Ataman has a point, the safety level of cars in this country is very poor. However, thanks to Mr. Dinkic's inspired decision to apply EU standards and ban the import of cars older than 5 years before EU conditions (a living wage) are met, the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps.

Why are you discussing the age of cars? The biggest single factor is the large amount of very bad driving.

There are too many on the roads who think that a big ego makes them good drivers.

A good driver drives with due regard for other people.

A bad driver thinks he is a potential formulae one driver who just happens to be on hard times.

A good driver knows when to slow down for others.

A bad driver overtakes aggressively and blames the careful ones for hampering his journey.

So many lives are needlessly ended by people who drive with impatience and a heavy right foot.

The irony is that for every egotistical driver that overtakes me dangerously, there is a sensible well adjusted person (me) who actively despises the idiot for his poor judgement.

By the way, I am not a slow driver, and I am quite capable of overtaking most of them when the way is clear.

Quick Serbian tempers, arrogance; and the Serb's total disrespect for the rules are also major causes of traffic accidents.

Praise be - an expert states in public and the media reports on it, that seatbelts are a major factor in reducing the number killed and injured on the roads.

It always saddens me that media accident reports never state whether the victims were wearing a seatbelt or not.

When something is this bad we all have a responsibility to remind people of ways of reducing risk of serious injury or death.

The picture of the accident shows: with cars having much better crash test, the drivers would walk away from the crash scene. The rural roads in California are not any better than of (ex)YU. There are much more cars. But the fatality / accident rate is much better.

Here Serbia should look at two most motorized nations on the planet: USA and Canada, maybe Australia - but NHTSA safety standards are most tight. There is not a single European - model (made to be used in EU) car which can be imported to USA without extensive and costly safety and smog modifications. On the other hand, cars made for US market can be imported to EU with relative few and cheap modifications (usually lights only).

That speaks volumes. What is true, US-models of the same car are usually heavier, have larger but lower rpm engine, tend to have slightly worse fuel economy and can't be driven that fast. Not a big disadvantage if it saves lives and as for lower possible speed limit of the car: it's still usually 110-120 mph at least and even on German freeways driving over 80-85 mph (140 kmh) is crazy. In SRB/KS I rarely drive over 55-60 mph, and that only if the road is OK. But sometimes KPS or MUP does not agree with me even on that.

ya see, this is what happens when you send your "highly-trained, professional" police officers off on peacekeeping missions. The average, poorly-trained, unprofessional ones you are left with just aren't up to the job. Check out how many cops in squad cars actually wear seatbelts.

"the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps"

Well, at least you can learn and practice defensive driving.

Ataman,

Where are you living, $2000 for a car! Anyone who has that kinda money applies for a Canadian visa.

Having been to my motherland and riding with the local i would have to say their driving habits are particularly dangerous with their WRC styled "drive like you stole it" mentality which must be changed in order to save lives.

ban the import of cars older than 5 years before EU conditions (a living wage) are met, the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps.
(Unorthodox Celt, 6 July 2009 13:15)

Why don't you import a car from USA? It will take about $2000 - $2500 depending where from and with some knowledge you can secure really a great car for way under $10K and not older than 5 years. If you buy in Oregon, New Hampshire or Delaware there is no sales tax (VAT). If you have relatives in the States it's even easier than.

Add extra money for a trip to Netherlands or Germany and 400-500 Euro for customs and port handling. Some companies can carry it even to Bar (CG) or Koper (SLO), that could add few hundred $ but it's closer and you can handle it simpler.

We went through that procedure three times, no car was lost and the entire adventure at sea landed up with few minor scratches (under $50 to repair) and two dead batteries (well, batteries made in the States are not that great and even import cars sold in the States usually have locally made battery which will die sooner than European or Asian).

I can bet, my 12 year old Audi A6 wagon (USA model, California smog emission standards, 65K miles) will beat many cars sold new. And according NHTSA it's one of the safest cars ever made. Earlier we considered to sell the car because we do not need three and I had no time to sell it before we moved to Europe. I sold my wife's Mitsubishi, but run out of time with Audi.

In any case, that car "made it" to Europe, seats seven people (USA model) and the fair Edmund's sale price is roughly $4000-$5000 (at best). Of course, Serbs and Hungarians lined up because you can't find such model in such condition, with low mileage like that and atop of it in very neutral color (white). Now, it turned out Serbia is a "no-go" because of the said rule and in Hungary the new owner would pay an other $4000 for registration fee (large, 2.8L engine).

So it landed up staying before the house and I am using it once in a while because my wife does not like driving German cars, she likes Japanese or Korean better.

And ultimately if my oldest kid will get a license, he will get that car from us, so it's not for sale anymore, we will have a better use for it.

In the meantime Hungarian and Serbian drivers drive these Suzuki, Yugo, Trabant clunkers, unsafe at any speed and not for family.

I think, Serbia/KS would be served the best if they would import cars from USA directly. If not... Serbs and Albanians have enough brain to "do it yourself" - like many Russians, Georgians, Moldavians. The ports of Germany and NL are full of good US-standard cars going to East Europe. The employees in the logistics are all Turks, Georgians, Bulgarians, Russians... they know who are their best clients ;)

In any case, www.edmunds.com is the best source how to start the search for new and used cars, that's the "Edmunds" - and you won't find Fiat Panda there ;)

I think, Honda Swift (in Europe: Honda Jazz), Saturn Astra (in Europe: Opel Astra), some Toyota and Kia are a good start.

Some Pontiac cars (Pontiac Vibe) are merely re-badged Toyota Voltz, but sold for MUCH less, the difference (OMG!!!) is the name and the grill only. It is to be discontinued, so expect GREAT deals on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Vibe

You can get a new Pontiac car with AC, automatic transmission and luggage rack for roughly $16K without much negotiation - check the Edmunds!

Alternatively, a much larger Kia Rondo is in the same price range. If lucky you can get one with V6 engine and the car can seat seven people. True, it will be a left-over 2008 model.

Well, at least you can learn and practice defensive driving.
(ida, 6 July 2009 14:35)

LOL, I practice the same in more robust things. BTW: unintentionally clicked at wrong place and you landed up with one "red" undeserved. Sorry, internet slowed down to the crawl (I guess, kids playing with their former US classmates some games upstairs) and unexpected things happen. I rarely give any rating unless I freak out at some eTrolling.

On the other hand if "Kada" or "Village-Bey" will turn here, I can tell them, too what to do exactly if they want that USA car with Kosovo plates... we had to go through the entire ordeal three times and now I can probably write a PHD essay about it. Others from that place are welcome, too - just please no trolling.

"the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps"

Well, at least you can learn and practice defensive driving.
(ida, 6 July 2009 14:35)

dear Ida,

if you think this is a matter for flippancy, you obviously have no children of your own.

Where are you living, $2000 for a car! Anyone who has that kinda money applies for a Canadian visa.
(Unorthodox Celt, 6 July 2009 16:14)

The big problem in Hungary and probably Serbia, too is the very-very bad used car market. Here I would not buy a single used vehicle, most have "hacked" odometer and many illegal things we just do not know about.

Even in States there could be some issues on the used car market - better to research and never fall in love with a car BEFORE you buy it.

I didn't mean it to be flippant, even though it might come across that way. You are basically saying you are stuck with that car and can't do anything about it - but you can always practice defense driving techniques and alertness - and that may be an important factor in keeping you and your family safe, despite the bad car.
I'll bet most all of those in the accidents weren't using defensive driving skills - and many were likely speeding, making bad maneuvers, or not pay proper attention when the got in their accidents.

Bob, well said. The 2 factors that I see most are the total disregard of anything approaching safety: kids standing up between the seats, no seatbelts, crazy loading... and the inappropriate speeds and disregard of road conditions. I had my Volvo written off 3 weeks ago by a speeding driver who lost it on a bend. I dont agree that it is solely the job of the Police, drivers and their families have to start to take personal responsibility for their actions. bring on some heavy hitting and graphic advertising campaigns and start some awareness with driving schools and those kids about to get behind the wheel. perhaps then we can start to see some more responsible behavoir behind the wheel in the next week or so.

one other thing. I keep my car legal and smart, yet am stppped and fined for the most minor of mistakes. I see vehicles that are not fit to be driven in fields passing by uniformed police officers with no reaction...surely unfair.

'bring on some heavy hitting and graphic advertising campaigns and start some awareness with driving schools and those kids about to get behind the wheel'.

Quite, and alongside families of victimes must form groups designed to put pressure on the government through the media to make the police enforce stricter attitude.

One day there will be such action. Every day until then is a waste of human life.

Quick Serbian tempers, arrogance; and the Serb's total disrespect for the rules are also major causes of traffic accidents.

"the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps"

Well, at least you can learn and practice defensive driving.

The picture of the accident shows: with cars having much better crash test, the drivers would walk away from the crash scene. The rural roads in California are not any better than of (ex)YU. There are much more cars. But the fatality / accident rate is much better.

Here Serbia should look at two most motorized nations on the planet: USA and Canada, maybe Australia - but NHTSA safety standards are most tight. There is not a single European - model (made to be used in EU) car which can be imported to USA without extensive and costly safety and smog modifications. On the other hand, cars made for US market can be imported to EU with relative few and cheap modifications (usually lights only).

That speaks volumes. What is true, US-models of the same car are usually heavier, have larger but lower rpm engine, tend to have slightly worse fuel economy and can't be driven that fast. Not a big disadvantage if it saves lives and as for lower possible speed limit of the car: it's still usually 110-120 mph at least and even on German freeways driving over 80-85 mph (140 kmh) is crazy. In SRB/KS I rarely drive over 55-60 mph, and that only if the road is OK. But sometimes KPS or MUP does not agree with me even on that.

ya see, this is what happens when you send your "highly-trained, professional" police officers off on peacekeeping missions. The average, poorly-trained, unprofessional ones you are left with just aren't up to the job. Check out how many cops in squad cars actually wear seatbelts.

Ataman has a point, the safety level of cars in this country is very poor. However, thanks to Mr. Dinkic's inspired decision to apply EU standards and ban the import of cars older than 5 years before EU conditions (a living wage) are met, the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps.

Praise be - an expert states in public and the media reports on it, that seatbelts are a major factor in reducing the number killed and injured on the roads.

It always saddens me that media accident reports never state whether the victims were wearing a seatbelt or not.

When something is this bad we all have a responsibility to remind people of ways of reducing risk of serious injury or death.

ban the import of cars older than 5 years before EU conditions (a living wage) are met, the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps.
(Unorthodox Celt, 6 July 2009 13:15)

Why don't you import a car from USA? It will take about $2000 - $2500 depending where from and with some knowledge you can secure really a great car for way under $10K and not older than 5 years. If you buy in Oregon, New Hampshire or Delaware there is no sales tax (VAT). If you have relatives in the States it's even easier than.

Add extra money for a trip to Netherlands or Germany and 400-500 Euro for customs and port handling. Some companies can carry it even to Bar (CG) or Koper (SLO), that could add few hundred $ but it's closer and you can handle it simpler.

We went through that procedure three times, no car was lost and the entire adventure at sea landed up with few minor scratches (under $50 to repair) and two dead batteries (well, batteries made in the States are not that great and even import cars sold in the States usually have locally made battery which will die sooner than European or Asian).

I can bet, my 12 year old Audi A6 wagon (USA model, California smog emission standards, 65K miles) will beat many cars sold new. And according NHTSA it's one of the safest cars ever made. Earlier we considered to sell the car because we do not need three and I had no time to sell it before we moved to Europe. I sold my wife's Mitsubishi, but run out of time with Audi.

In any case, that car "made it" to Europe, seats seven people (USA model) and the fair Edmund's sale price is roughly $4000-$5000 (at best). Of course, Serbs and Hungarians lined up because you can't find such model in such condition, with low mileage like that and atop of it in very neutral color (white). Now, it turned out Serbia is a "no-go" because of the said rule and in Hungary the new owner would pay an other $4000 for registration fee (large, 2.8L engine).

So it landed up staying before the house and I am using it once in a while because my wife does not like driving German cars, she likes Japanese or Korean better.

And ultimately if my oldest kid will get a license, he will get that car from us, so it's not for sale anymore, we will have a better use for it.

In the meantime Hungarian and Serbian drivers drive these Suzuki, Yugo, Trabant clunkers, unsafe at any speed and not for family.

I think, Serbia/KS would be served the best if they would import cars from USA directly. If not... Serbs and Albanians have enough brain to "do it yourself" - like many Russians, Georgians, Moldavians. The ports of Germany and NL are full of good US-standard cars going to East Europe. The employees in the logistics are all Turks, Georgians, Bulgarians, Russians... they know who are their best clients ;)

In any case, www.edmunds.com is the best source how to start the search for new and used cars, that's the "Edmunds" - and you won't find Fiat Panda there ;)

I think, Honda Swift (in Europe: Honda Jazz), Saturn Astra (in Europe: Opel Astra), some Toyota and Kia are a good start.

Some Pontiac cars (Pontiac Vibe) are merely re-badged Toyota Voltz, but sold for MUCH less, the difference (OMG!!!) is the name and the grill only. It is to be discontinued, so expect GREAT deals on it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pontiac_Vibe

You can get a new Pontiac car with AC, automatic transmission and luggage rack for roughly $16K without much negotiation - check the Edmunds!

Alternatively, a much larger Kia Rondo is in the same price range. If lucky you can get one with V6 engine and the car can seat seven people. True, it will be a left-over 2008 model.

Well, at least you can learn and practice defensive driving.
(ida, 6 July 2009 14:35)

LOL, I practice the same in more robust things. BTW: unintentionally clicked at wrong place and you landed up with one "red" undeserved. Sorry, internet slowed down to the crawl (I guess, kids playing with their former US classmates some games upstairs) and unexpected things happen. I rarely give any rating unless I freak out at some eTrolling.

On the other hand if "Kada" or "Village-Bey" will turn here, I can tell them, too what to do exactly if they want that USA car with Kosovo plates... we had to go through the entire ordeal three times and now I can probably write a PHD essay about it. Others from that place are welcome, too - just please no trolling.

Ataman,

Where are you living, $2000 for a car! Anyone who has that kinda money applies for a Canadian visa.

"the average serbian family, mine included, are condemned to rattling around in smog billowing deathtraps"

Well, at least you can learn and practice defensive driving.
(ida, 6 July 2009 14:35)

dear Ida,

if you think this is a matter for flippancy, you obviously have no children of your own.

Where are you living, $2000 for a car! Anyone who has that kinda money applies for a Canadian visa.
(Unorthodox Celt, 6 July 2009 16:14)

The big problem in Hungary and probably Serbia, too is the very-very bad used car market. Here I would not buy a single used vehicle, most have "hacked" odometer and many illegal things we just do not know about.

Even in States there could be some issues on the used car market - better to research and never fall in love with a car BEFORE you buy it.

I didn't mean it to be flippant, even though it might come across that way. You are basically saying you are stuck with that car and can't do anything about it - but you can always practice defense driving techniques and alertness - and that may be an important factor in keeping you and your family safe, despite the bad car.
I'll bet most all of those in the accidents weren't using defensive driving skills - and many were likely speeding, making bad maneuvers, or not pay proper attention when the got in their accidents.

Having been to my motherland and riding with the local i would have to say their driving habits are particularly dangerous with their WRC styled "drive like you stole it" mentality which must be changed in order to save lives.

Why are you discussing the age of cars? The biggest single factor is the large amount of very bad driving.

There are too many on the roads who think that a big ego makes them good drivers.

A good driver drives with due regard for other people.

A bad driver thinks he is a potential formulae one driver who just happens to be on hard times.

A good driver knows when to slow down for others.

A bad driver overtakes aggressively and blames the careful ones for hampering his journey.

So many lives are needlessly ended by people who drive with impatience and a heavy right foot.

The irony is that for every egotistical driver that overtakes me dangerously, there is a sensible well adjusted person (me) who actively despises the idiot for his poor judgement.

By the way, I am not a slow driver, and I am quite capable of overtaking most of them when the way is clear.

Bob, well said. The 2 factors that I see most are the total disregard of anything approaching safety: kids standing up between the seats, no seatbelts, crazy loading... and the inappropriate speeds and disregard of road conditions. I had my Volvo written off 3 weeks ago by a speeding driver who lost it on a bend. I dont agree that it is solely the job of the Police, drivers and their families have to start to take personal responsibility for their actions. bring on some heavy hitting and graphic advertising campaigns and start some awareness with driving schools and those kids about to get behind the wheel. perhaps then we can start to see some more responsible behavoir behind the wheel in the next week or so.

one other thing. I keep my car legal and smart, yet am stppped and fined for the most minor of mistakes. I see vehicles that are not fit to be driven in fields passing by uniformed police officers with no reaction...surely unfair.

'bring on some heavy hitting and graphic advertising campaigns and start some awareness with driving schools and those kids about to get behind the wheel'.

Quite, and alongside families of victimes must form groups designed to put pressure on the government through the media to make the police enforce stricter attitude.

One day there will be such action. Every day until then is a waste of human life.